Good morning, everyone. Yesterday afternoon, I talked in English in three sentences, but in Japanese in one sentence. I'm going to talk from the second sentence. As I said, I think, the first two pages are kind of an introduction of those collections of stories. And this part, I think, is the only difficult part to understand. in this writing of Gyoji, I think.

[01:05]

Actually, it's not so difficult. Not like a Buddha nature, or a Bussho, or a Uji, or a Taimanin, or a mountain, or a sutra. But there are basically two sentences that are very difficult to translate. So, anyway, I try to talk following this introduction. Maybe it takes one or two more days. And I'm going to start to talk on the story. So, in the first, Dogen said, in the great way, of Buddhas and ancestors. There is always unsurpassable continuous practice which is the way, like a circle without interruption.

[02:15]

Between the arousing of awakening mind, practice, awakening, and nirvana, there is no slightest break. Continuous practice is the circle of the way. I think that is what I talked yesterday. Next, Dogen says, Therefore, this continuous practice is not activities that are forced to do by us, by ourselves, or by others. It is the continuous practice that has never been defiled. This is one sentence in Japanese. So he said, our practice is not something being forced by ourselves for certain purpose or reason, or this is not

[03:32]

a practice we should do because we are forced to do by some other people. Here, basically, others means Buddhas and Ancestors. So it's not a matter of someone forced to do something, or even ourselves. I think that means this is a natural function of our life is to see the way, to see who we are, to really understand who we are. And that is the most healthy way of life, wholesome way of life. Dogen said, I think, Shobo bendo yui butsu yobu, only Buddha, together with Buddha. That phrase also came from the Lotus Sutra.

[04:35]

All living beings... It's natural for all living beings to try to find who we are, what is the Self. And yet, he said, that is only that true Self, true nature of the Self. can be seen only by Buddha, together with Buddha. Our human way of seeing things cannot see the true way in who we are really. So, in the Lotus Sutra it says, the reason why all Buddhas appears to this world is only one great cause, one great matter, that is, to show all living beings the Buddha's insight.

[05:50]

So it's not human insight, but Buddha's insight. And what Buddha tries to show us is that It shows the true form of all beings. Because true form is no form. But we usually don't see true form as no form. We grasp some kind of form. I think this is me. I'm Japanese. I'm a Buddhist. So I have to behave like a Buddhist. Because I'm a teacher, I have to do something that my teachers do. That is how we grasp. That's why I'm here now. I'm talking something like Dogen would think. This is human, you know, insight or a way of thinking. So we are, first we have to grasp what is mind.

[06:57]

In this case, I'm a Zen teacher, a Buddhist teacher, so I have to talk something about Zen. That is what I think you expect me. That's why you are here. And because I think that is my responsibility, so I'm here. I'm trying to do my best. This is what human beings, human way of thinking, But from Buddha's view, there's no such thing called Shofu. There's no such thing called Buddhist. There's no such thing called teacher or student. Because the true form of all things is no form. There's nothing. Still there's something. That is the point of the void or emptiness of the center of the circle.

[08:07]

But we don't see the circle or the emptiness of being. But we can only see the surroundings, the lingus. Anyway, so our practice It's not to attain something. The human way of doing things is, you know, we are in certain conditions. And somehow we don't like this. But we feel there's something happening. So we need to go somewhere. get something else, then the lacking can be filled, and we become better.

[09:08]

We can be satisfied. That is, you know, human way of doing things. You know, if we don't have something, some kind of goal, or some kind of profit, It's very difficult to find a motivation to do it. That's why, you know, when we go to school, we try to work hard to get some degree or something, or some knowledge and understanding we don't have yet. But our practice, you know, in a sense, we study first Buddha's taught, This is what Dogen wrote, and I'm talking what I understand. So, in a sense, in one side, we kind of accumulate the knowledge, we gain certain understanding.

[10:18]

But the ultimate goal of our practice is to forget all of this. Being free from those knowledges, we accumulate. That is the goal of our practice, our study. That means we see the reality of all beings that have no form. It's a kind of strange thing, I think. It's not a usual human activity. So, such kind of practice, That comes from our human desire from here. But I think it's much deeper place. Somehow we allow body-mind to see deeper reality than our conventional way of doing things or viewing things.

[11:23]

So, this activity is called a practice, or a continuous practice in Dogon's expression. It does not come from our desire, or it's not something we have to do as a responsibility or duty, being forced by someone else. But this is the way our life naturally grows. The seed of Buddha nature planted and grows in the summer and harvested in the fall and stored in the winter. And next year the seed is planted again and grows. This is a very natural process of life.

[12:31]

And according to Dogen, our practice is the same. How we can grow our Buddha nature. Please. Yes, as Dogen said, without discriminating mind or thinking mind, we cannot allow the body-mind. But he said, body mind is not discriminating mind. But discriminating mind or thinking mind. When I think, you know, this is not, you know, a healthy way of life.

[13:36]

This is a kind of discriminating mind. And this is discrimination for our thinking. This is not right, so we should go do something else. That is, in a sense, part of the, you know, deeper life. But it's not the Buddha nature or our body-mind itself. But we need to use, you know, even our discriminating mind in order to nurture the seed of Buddha nature. I think that is what Dogen said. Dogen said. Can you say something different here? I don't think so. Same thing. That means, even though, you know, we try to do something, we think, well, it seems good for me. That's why we start to practice. But from the deeper point of view, or Buddha's point of view, that is not really my choice, or my desire.

[14:50]

That makes me that it has the weight for such a practice. I think that is such an essential. So our practice is not enforced by our desire or by other people's other duties or responsibilities. But we... something deeper than our thinking mind push our thinking mind to, you know, to start to practice and grow and continue to practice. Beyond all human agency. Yeah, I remember that.

[15:55]

But it's actually in Kanda Denji. Kanda Denji. After Original World, Shuman Agency. Shuman Agency. The word, maybe not, I'm not sure, but that is probably ninjō. Nin is human, person. And jō is sentiment. Or this jō is the same as the expression meijō. They will be sentient beings. So, our practice for the energy which allows us to practice does not come from human agents or human sentiments, but comes deeper than that.

[17:10]

I think that is how it is. Is it with force? It's not that way? Force? No. I don't think so. See? Hmm. [...] Not so, not so fast. Hmm. I think that is also the, you know, life energy to, you know, so we become healthy, you know, we try to do healthy work in order to keep our life, you know, healthy.

[18:14]

That is also the natural life force. So it's not our desire, right? But I'm not sure the point of your question. Yeah, I think if to become healthy is a purpose or a goal of our practice, there is no reason to continue after we get healthy. That is what I say. But practice, continuous practice according to Dogen is not such a, you know, practice or therapy, treatment, but we should keep going. Well, once we get healthy, we try to, you know, help other people to get healthy and to keep a healthy way of life together.

[19:28]

I think that is how we keep going as a Sangha. And that is what I think you are doing here. So to be healthy is a natural condition. It's not some particular fantastic state of mind or

[20:30]

some superhuman state or condition. Just be natural, healthy. So to be sick is something special. But to be healthy is a natural thing. Yeah, he's a student in the samba. I think so. Of course, he was writing for the people in the future, like us. Hmm.

[21:41]

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. I think the same thing. Buddha's compassion, or Buddha's mind, or healthy life force knocks us and asks us to open the door. And we try to get out of the prison. I don't think so.

[22:56]

Human beings depend on this reality. I think so, even before human beings made this product, it was there. This sentence? Okay, I'll do it. Any other questions? Immediate question, please. I don't know how to say, but something, you know, where I first thought of the session at Antaiji,

[24:12]

when I was, I think, 20. It was very difficult. And then after I finished the session, I thought that was the last session for me. But somehow I returned, even though I didn't want to. When I finished school and started to practice Atantaiji with Uchiyama Roshi, my teacher asked me to study English. And I didn't want to. But somehow I couldn't say no. That, yes, you know, determined my life. That's why I'm here. So, it did not come from my desire, but somehow, you know, he tried to convince me it's the right thing to do, even though I didn't know why.

[25:29]

But somehow, I said, yes. I don't think it came from my desire. for my idea, what is good, what is not good. But somehow, from, you know, deeper than my thinking, I couldn't say no. So I don't, I don't, you know, really speak what this is. But something If I say I speak something, I can explain, but that is from here. You know, I can make some explanation, but that is not from here, but from here. So, it's very difficult to talk about it. That's why I think Chinese people show just a circle from there.

[26:31]

And that is what we are talking about, and we are trying to awaken to, and we are doing the right thing. But real thing, actual thing, that energy, that new reality, is beyond our thinking, or beyond ground we can discuss. That's why we need to practice, I think. We need to sit in the zen-do. And I think because we share this same practice, you know, even though I cannot explain, I think we have some... we share some understanding what I'm talking about, or perhaps Dogen is writing about. I'm sorry. I think that is why Tao Tzu Roshi always says, Zazen is good for nothing.

[27:56]

Not only Zazen, but our practice is really good for nothing. Good for nothing. I really like this expression. I mean, English expression. Good for nothing. You know, it's good. But not for something else. But it's good as it is. We don't need to be good for something. It's good. Serious. For nothing. And this nothing is, you know, the center of the purpose. So this is good for pumping. And that is nothing. And print. I'm sorry, I didn't really understand.

[29:24]

Could you say it again? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I think so. In order to practice, we make efforts like cultivating the ground. But without the coordination and support from the entire world, the seed cannot grow.

[30:29]

I think I understand what you are saying. bloom rose flower, and violet bloom violet flower. And we don't know whether we are rose or violet. Just we bloom our flower. And he said, so he compared himself with his teacher Sawaki Kodoroshi. Sawaki Kodoroshi was a really great person, really strong. And Uchiyamoroshi was physically very weak and gentle and very well-educated intellectual person. So Uchiyamoroshi often said, Harakiroshi was like a rose, and he was like a violet kind of thing. But for a violet to be a violet enough, we don't need to become a violet.

[31:56]

A violet doesn't need to become a rose. So we don't know whether we are rose or violet, or much smaller thing. But our practice is just to bloom our own flower. And there's no way to compare the value, which is more important, violet or rose. Of course, you know, in the conventional world, rose has more value, more beautiful, and we can sell rose. Rose can be sellable, has some market value. And violet doesn't. But it doesn't matter. I mean, the first time I hear the English expression, good for nothing, was when I

[32:56]

We lived in Massachusetts because we didn't have financial support from anywhere. We had to do some other jobs. And the first job we found was blueberry picking. Picking blueberries. You know, when we pick blueberries, it's really beautiful. You know, blueberry fields are really beautiful. And especially in the morning, the blueberry in the morning view, it's really like a jewel. But picking berries is very, very, terrible work.

[33:59]

You know, the berries were, you know, low bush. And in order to pick them, we used a, what do you call it? Scoop, scoop. Yes. So it's very hard for my back. Anyway, there are certain portions of the blueberry fields where other kinds of berries, which are not eatable, grow. And they're called dog berries. And blueberry and dog berries are mixed. And blueberry picking is not a job for real workers. you know, high school students come to, you know, get some money.

[35:01]

So they don't care so much whether blueberry or dogberry. So the owner of the, you know, farm always shouting, don't pick those good-for-nothing berries. That was the first time I hear this English expression, good for nothing. And I liked it. You know, blueberry has some market value, because it's edible. But dogberry doesn't have market value. So it's kind of different in human world, as I hear, market value. But as a living being, You know, blueberry and dogberry have no difference at all. They are good or not good only in our mind, only in human sight.

[36:10]

They are the same. They just, you know, grow. They don't know who they are, whether they are blueberry or dogberry. They don't know. Just grow. Just live. I thought that was enough. And I... I like to look at it. I like to look at it too. It's beautiful. Just not beautiful. So, I thought, we are like that. Don't look at it. It has no market value. Good for nothing. And that's enough. I don't think we need to be good for something else. We are good at all. That's good enough. Just live and just do as much as possible, being me, being myself.

[37:11]

I think that is enough. We don't need to compete with other people to have more value. And our Zazen is the same. We just see ourselves. We don't practice to make this person get more market value. Just see as we are, that's all. And that is my understanding of this expression. Zazen is good for nothing. It means good as it is. So it doesn't need to be good for something else. So you... I start to talk about blueberry from you. all right

[38:25]

Okay. Yeah. Is it my question? Where... I think it's a really difficult question for each one of us.

[40:07]

You know, as Dogen said, the virtue of Zazen sometimes is not revealed. Sometimes it's revealed, sometimes it's not revealed. So, more often we feel, why do we have to do this? You know, there are many better things to do outside of the Zendo. And that is true. So I think we need a kind of a faith. So I think Zen practice or Buddhist practice is not a therapy. This is a religion. I don't like the word religion. I mean English word religion. And the Japanese word for religion is different from English word religion. You know, in Japanese we use Shūkyō has a translation of the English word, religion.

[41:12]

Religion means to tie again with God. That is the meaning of the English word, religion. But the meaning of this word, shūkyō, is different. Shū means truth or essence. Like a shoe in... Well, basically, this shoe is like a shoe in Soto-shu, or Rinzai-shu. In that case, this shoe could mean a school or a temple. But this shoe, original meaning of this shoe is truth or reality, or essence. And kyō is teaching. So the meaning of shukyō means teaching about the truth or reality. That's what the Buddha awakened to. So shukyō means Buddhism.

[42:14]

But religion means Christianity. So it's different. But as a meaning in the dictionary, religion and shukyō are one thing. Equivalent. But it's different. So, when I say Shukyo, it's not a technique, but, you know, like a treatment in a hospital. But, you know, this is the truth. The reality or truth. And we need a teaching because we cannot see. We don't really understand the truth without teaching. So, when as far as we really see the essence or truth, we need to believe it. Or we need to have a trust or faith in that teaching. And when we practice, we really see that truth or essence Buddha or other teachers taught is really true.

[43:27]

Until then, we need a trust. Otherwise, you know, we don't see what that teaching is about. So, in order to practice what we don't really understand yet, we need a trust. And, or a faith. That is a... In Buddhism, or Japanese, a trust, a faith, or a belief, is Shin. You know, this part means human beings, and this part means words or language, problems. So, to believe or trust in Chinese or Japanese means to trust a person's words. You know, a person's words, People's words is not... sometimes it's trustworthy, sometimes not.

[44:31]

So we have to doubt or question whether this is true or not. But certain, you know, about something we can barely know, we can barely judge. We need to trust. And this trust, in Buddhism there are two kinds of faith or trust. One is called Gyōshin. Gyōshin. In modern Japanese, we say in opposite order, Shinkō. Shinkō means belief. Or faith, having faith. Kō means to look up, means to respect. So we trust or believe because we respect this teacher, the person who teaches this teaching.

[45:37]

Because we don't really see and really understand what the teacher is saying, but because we trust this person, we try to follow and we practice. And another kind of seeing or faith is Shin-ge. Ge means understanding. And in Buddhist texts, they put emphasis on this kind of Shin faith. Because, for example, Shinran was the founder of Japanese Shin Buddhism, Pure Land Buddhism, and his teacher was Ho Neng. And Shinran said, I don't know whether Nenbutsu, Nenbutsu is a practice in Pure Land Buddhism, chanting Namo Amida Butsu, Namo Amida Buddha.

[46:45]

And Shinran said, I don't know whether the chanting of Nembutsu, practice of Nembutsu, is the cause to go to hell or go to Pure Land. I don't know. But this is only thing I can do, following my teacher's teaching. So I just do this, practice this, because my trust to my teacher. And I don't care whether this leads to hell or Pure Land. that kind of faith. I don't have that kind of faith. In the case of Dogen, we need faith because we don't see the result yet. But when we read what Dogen said, even though We don't feel the water yet, but somehow, I think, we have a trust, because he's one.

[47:54]

Not only he's one, but he's an example of life. And in my case, even though I didn't really understand what that means, it takes a very long time to be mature as a Zen practitioner. both, you know, just my practice and understanding. So, at least, past ten years, I really didn't understand what Zen is, what Zazen means, and what Shogen is talking about. But somehow, I couldn't stop practicing. Because, I think, because of my practice with my teacher, and my teacher's teacher, and this is a tradition from Dogen or Buddha. So, at least for me, that faith or trust is really important.

[49:01]

Otherwise, I couldn't really trust it, because it was really good for nothing. Yeah, that's the part I'm going to talk next. Do you want to say something? Yes. Yes. Yes, this is one of the very important words in Dogon speaking. So as he requested, let me talk about the sentence. Okay. Please. J is understanding. When we hear someone speaking, or when we read some text, we try to think and try to understand.

[50:04]

So this J is a kind of intellectual understanding. So we need, of course, intellectual understanding. This is more than the director. original Japanese sentence. It's not a long sentence. Therefore, because of this

[51:29]

because of this. Mizukara is the self. It's a G in kanji. And Go means to be strong or to do something by force. And Ii is action, activity. So Go is activity. It is force. to do, in some hour. Arazu is not. And ta is other, or others. And go is same word, in arazu. So this gyoji, continuous practice, is not some activity being forced by ourselves and also by others.

[53:04]

And so it is Fuzo Zenna whom not ever Zen-na is the silent or tainted. Zen itself means to die. And na-o is to make something dirty. And in modern Japanese, we use The order is reversed, but it's all the same. It's pollution. So never pollute it. And I need to talk about this never at the farm. Do I keep nepsan?

[54:17]

Oh, really? OK. Over this sentence? OK. Therefore, because of this, mizukara is self, and goi is action. which is being forced by this self. And others is not. And ta is others. Go is same thing. Activity forced by something. Go activity forced by others. And not. It is not. And Fuzo is not ever, that means never. Never polluted or defiled or stained.

[55:21]

Sainted. Continuous practice. OK? Yeah, this kanji means to die. Stained. No.

[56:39]

Somewhere, you know, we are forced. I mean, we are pushed or kind of supported by the force or Buddha's compassion, or Buddha's mind, or Buddha nature of our faith. But when the word being forced is used, there's kind of a separation. I don't want to do this, but somehow, you know, I was pushed to do this. So there's some resistance. In the case of healthy practice, there's also some resistance. So, it's difficult. You do have come a long way. I think it's a very good question.

[58:36]

And I think by studying and practicing studying Dogen, not only Dogen, but Buddha's teachings, and practice for your own, I think you can see, make that point clear. And especially, you know, I taught a five-day session at one time. You know, one period was 14, I mean 15, And we just keep sitting. Somehow, at least one time, once a session, I reached the point that I couldn't, I cannot continue this with my willpower. You know, I'm so exhausted, physically and mentally, and I have no energy to continue this.

[59:41]

every month, so that means every three weeks I have these sessions. And I think it was a very important experience to me, that not me, but something deeper than me keeps me sitting in the zen-do. Last time I gave a lecture on Buddha Nature, Shobo Gendo Buddha Nature. At that talk, someone asked me about Eko Hensho. Eko Hensho is a expression Jogen Zenji used in Kansa Zenji. And the usual translation is something like, turn the light inward.

[60:47]

illuminate the self. So I think you are all familiar with this expression, but that English translation is not so literal. original sentences. 栄光返生の逮捕 Tai is HO.

[61:50]

EI means turn. And KO is light. And HEN is return. And SHO is illumination. And TAI HO is backwards, backwards step. image of this expression in Chinese.

[62:52]

It is a very kind of a common expression in Chinese. And then I was, I translated for the first time when I was in Massachusetts. Some person from China did that. So I asked her what this means, echo, echo means. And she said, as a modern Chinese, ekohensho means when someone is dying, right before dying, right before dying, the person's face becomes red. And she said, that is ekohensho. And according to Chinese diction, ekohensho, one of the meanings of ekohensho is second wind. Do you know second wind? That means, say, we do something and we are exhausted and we don't have energy anymore.

[63:57]

But somehow, when we are exhausted, secondly, we grow and somehow we can continue. And the original, I think, meaning of Eko Henshou is The scenery, when the sun sets, you know, the valley is on the east side of the sea. The sun sets very soon, around 4 in the afternoon. So the sign is already set. There is no time anymore. But at that time, you know, the sky became very bright, very beautiful, so many different colors. And that is the expression that Eko Henshin means.

[65:01]

The sun is set, but the sun already, you know, disappeared, illuminated the world. And it was really bright and beautiful. That is not the meaning, but the scenery of this situation. And this means, you know, that is the time between daytime and night. In the daytime, we work. In order to work, we have to make choices and think, and, you know, do things according to our But then, you know, sunset, that's the time to go back home. That means, taiho means to return to home. And you don't need to work anymore. But it's still, you know, not dark completely.

[66:06]

You know, dark or night means no discrimination. And we sleep. And between, you know, this working time and sleeping time, or life and death, there's one moment which is most beautiful, most bright. And that is what this Eko Hensho means. And during the Shins, you know, we experience this. My energy is almost completely exhausted. And I don't think I can continue this. I can't, I can't believe. But somehow, you know, I couldn't escape. So, you know, I returned to the, you know, cushion. And somehow I could. It's not my power. You know, with my mental and physical power, it's already exhausted.

[67:10]

It's not there. But still, so that means the sign is already set. But somehow, there is so much energy which comes from deeper than my willpower, or my physical power. And that power enables me to keep sitting even or even such a difficult condition. And to experience this is very important. It's not my power, but something much deeper is allowing me to do this. And Ephemeros says this is the same as what St. Paul said in the Bible. Not me, but Christ giving me means is doing this.

[68:15]

Not me, but it means. Nothing, no one else could do this for me. But it's me. Not me, but it means. My body, my work, my life is doing this. But it's not me. Any kind of artist has a point to explain. But I think not only in Jazan, but if you play some sport, I think you guarantee not only sport, but any kind of work. Hmm?

[69:24]

Hmm? [...] When we see that painting or music or whatever came from larger than this person, this individual person, then we feel we are moved. That those are good art. So I think the same thing. I think we are much larger than I think we think.

[70:28]

I think. It's a very subtle point. And how to express it in using words is very difficult. So we need experience. And I think we share some kind of experience through our practice. So I think we can share something. That's why reading Dogen is meaningful to me. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm supposed to do. Okay, this expression, the sign, came from a Koan story.

[71:30]

That is a conversation between the Shwinam, or Eno, that's his ancestor, and one of his main disciples whose name was Nangaku Egen. Nangaku and another disciple of Egen are two major disciples of the Sixth Ancestor. And when the Nangaku, the students, first visited the Sixth Ancestor, the Ancestor asked him a question. Where are you from? Where are you from? It's a very common question when you meet someone coming for the first time. And Ejo replied, I came from certain mountains where certain devas live.

[72:44]

It's a very common answer to such a question. I saw it came from such and such place. Then, Quinan said, ask again. It's hard to say in English. In original Chinese, it says, somobutsu in moraise. Somo is what. But is thing. And imo is how. And dai is come. Up, in, how come. And usual translation of this expression, up is it, that, thus come.

[73:49]

I'm not sure whether the meaning is the same or not. What thing? How come? It's a question, so that means... What are you? What thing? What thing that is coming, that is? That means what you really are. Not who you are. What you really are. And why such person, such thing comes, like this? This is not a common question. And dogon, some people use this expression, not as a question, but as a statement. Such thing, how come, is not a question in dogon. Dogon is like, it is a statement. That thing, something which cannot be defined, has come in that way.

[75:02]

That is what is happening in the Dendo or in our life. So we can only say that thing has come to express what we are doing in our life. But here, in the conversation, it's a question. And Ejo couldn't answer anything. He couldn't even understand the meaning of this question. So he practiced with the ancestor for eight years. And after eight years of practice, Ejo first understood the meaning of this question. I asked him, how come? And Ejo visited his teacher and said, when I first came to visit you, you gave me this question, and I first understood what you meant.

[76:12]

And so the ancestor asked him, what is your understanding? Setsuji Ichimotsu Toku Fuchuu. Setsuji Ichimotsu Toku Fuchuu. This is a very well-known expression in Zen. Tetsuji ichimotsu tokufuchu. This means, set is to discuss or expound or explain. Ji, in this case, means to show, to point.

[77:17]

And ichimotsu is one thing. One thing is this thing. One thing. Then if we try to explain and point out that one thing, that thing, then Soku means is itself, or immediately. Nothing other than Soku. Fuchū is not... Chū means center, or middle, or within. But in this case, this means to hit, to hit the mark. If we try to express, or express and point out this small, small thing, then we hit the mark. That is Seijo's question, I mean, answer.

[78:22]

Then, his ancestor asked again. That means there is no way to explain, no way to discuss about. That is the same as that, you know, inside of the circle. Then, Shudra asked again, if so, if so, do we need to, need to, do we need practice and enlightenment or not? And this is what Dogen Zenji quote in Fukanza Zenji also. In the very beginning of the Fukanza Zenji it says, the way, in my translation, the way is complete and universal. How can we distinguish practice from enlightenment? This how can we distinguish practice from enlightenment is what the ancestors say.

[79:28]

If we know there's nothing, there's no discrimination between practicing enlightenment or delusion, awakening, or samsara, nirvana, those, you know, there's no way to discuss, there's nothing, no distinction between those two, then do we need practice? And do we need to attain enlightenment? That was Sri Lankan question. And then Ejo said, I cannot say, I cannot say there is no practice under enlightenment. There is practice under enlightenment. But this practice under enlightenment cannot be defied. Cannot be or should not be defied. This is the origin of this expression.

[80:34]

Practice enlightenment without defilement. And then, Srinam said, this defilement, this thing, this practice without defilement, is something which has been transmitted from Buddha through ancestors. And Shinran said, I am that, and you are that. That means there's no way to say it, but you are that one thing already. So that means we need to practice, and we need to do meditation or realization. But those two cannot be defiled. Defiled means We defile our practice or our activity with three-pointed mind, greed, anger or hatred, and ignorance.

[81:47]

Leaving no place is no faith. Even not place is a different expression. That is, mu shou seki. Maybe I don't need to write. Do you speak Chinese? Mu shou seki means, really, no shou, both shou and seki mean place. Or like, you know, cow or cart or car. but different expression, but same idea. So, you know, when we do something, some practice or some activity, usually we have motivation and purpose and starting point and goal. And we do something because

[82:57]

As I said, because we feel there's something lacking here, and there's something desirable there. So we try to go there to get that thing. This activity is defiled by our greed to get something we want. Or sometimes we do something because we don't like who we are, or we don't think this is not a good thing. good place to be. So because of hatred or anger about who we are or where we are, then we try to escape from this place and to go to a better place. So often the motivation of our activity is to get something we want or to escape from something we don't want. Of course, as a human being, it's a very natural thing.

[83:58]

But according to Buddhist teachings, this greed to get something, and this anger or hatred, I don't like this, is a defilement. And that is a source of samsara. That is a source of suffering. And nirvana means to to be free from those three poisonous minds. So practice without three poisonous minds. No greed. No hatred or anger. And without ignorance. Ignorance of the self or ego. That is a practice without defilement. And that is what Buddhas and ancestors have been transmitting. And that is what Dogen asked us to do. It's very difficult.

[85:00]

It's the warmest we know. In the common Buddhist teaching, that is the goal. We cannot practice in that way. That's why we want to practice. So there's a kind of basic contradiction here. If we can practice in that way, we don't need to practice. Because we cannot do that, we need to practice. But if we practice with this kind of greed and anger, this is still, you know, within samsara. This is really a basic contradiction in our practice, in any Buddhist practice. You know, we call this desire to get something called enlightenment or nirvana, or anger, because of this suffering, or hatred. And we try to escape from this realm here, and try to reach nirvana.

[86:04]

That desire is again greed, or desire. So we need desire, or greed, or anger, in order to practice. But as far as we practice based on that greed, and anger, or hatred, Our practice is still within samsara. We create samsara. Sometimes we feel happy. We feel this is a great practice. But more often, we still feel, you know, this is heavy, too difficult. And we stop. So that kind of practice is still defiled with our... three points of mind. If we stop doing that, then we can do, have, go again, I just do this.

[87:08]

But because we cannot do it, we want to practice. So this is really basic, fundamental problem here. The reason I want to do is the reason I cannot do it. It's like, you know, we are sitting on the cushion and trying to take the cushion out of which we are sitting. And I think when we practice for a certain period of time, we have to face this problem, that desire, or so-called way of thinking mind, is an obstacle to real practice. And then we face this problem. There's no way to go. We have to keep facing this problem. And somehow, please. Yeah, he's saying that is continuous practice.

[88:41]

That is the practice which actualizes Buddha's ancestors' great ways. So he asks us to practice with such an attitude, without defilement. And our problem is we cannot do that. So far, it's a real koan for us. Cat 22, yeah, has an expression. Yes, here he is. So we can't go anywhere. So we have to, there's no way to escape. So we have to keep sitting, facing this contradiction. No. Yeah, include all our activities. Actually, not only practice, you know, as he said, you know, arousing mind, practice, awakening and entering nirvana, all are practice.

[89:52]

That is the fact I have been talking, that the energy or force is deeper or larger than my idea, my thought, my desire. That is the so-called second wind. So if then we practice not from here, but from that energy, then that is the fact of anything. to make this person more valuable, or more wise, or more healthy, or whatever. But we just practice. But if that dogma is meant, then he uses the expression, shikan tada, that's it. And that is how it is meant when he says, nothing is good for nothing. So that kind of practice. Can we eat that meat? Can we cook that food?

[91:15]

That is our dogma. And then we sit, we let go of that thought or emotion or whatever, and out of this person, this calm person, and leave everything to the deeper, larger life force. That is our practice of letting go of thought. Letting go of thought means letting go of more person, more ego. So this is a really important point in our practice, if we try to practice following Dogen teaching.

[92:22]

So if we try to practice in order to make this person better or more valuable, then that kind of practice is defined by our desire. But without this desire, We cannot practice. So somehow we need to start to practice. And within the process of practice with other people, you know, somehow, you know, often in Japan, Murasame practice is like a, is explained or expressed like a washing potatoes in a bucket in water. You know, all of that and, you know, nothing.

[93:17]

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