Good afternoon, everyone. This is the last lecture, I think. We have only two more paragraphs, very short. So hopefully I can finish talking on this in 20 or 30 minutes. And the rest of the time I'd like to let you talk. Because I talk too much. I almost talked, you know, 20 hours. Yes, seven days. I couldn't, I can't imagine, you know, I talk 20 hours in English. Anyway, two more paragraphs. Ah, next year. So, the final section.

[01:05]

An old Buddha has said, Mountains are mountains and waters are waters. These words do not say that mountains are mountains. They say that mountains are mountains. Therefore, we should thoroughly study these mountains. When we thoroughly study the mountains, this is the mountain training. Such mountains and waters themselves become wise men and sages. You know, I have been talking about Sanseikyo for 20 hours. And I had many difficulties to understand, but I have been trying to kind of report of seeing the southern peaks from inside the mountains.

[02:13]

That is what I have been doing since I became Uchiyama Roshi's disciple. So this is just a report. Please don't think what I'm saying or what I have been saying is what Dogen was writing. This is just my view. And, you know, some places are very difficult. Some places we feel it's great. But after those discussions about the virtues of mountains and river waters, what Dogen is saying here is mountain is just mountain. Water is just water. I think he's a terrible teacher. I mean, this is a quotation from Chinese Zen masters.

[03:15]

There are a few masters who said this statement. One of them is, of course, Wunmong. In his Dharma discourse, he says, Osho, all priests, that means all of you. His saying is maku mozo, maku mozo. Maku is not, and mozo, according to my Japanese-English dictionary, mozo is a fancy or a wild fancy. So, Maku Mozo is don't be lost in wild fancies, or don't be given to delusional thinking, or don't indulge in ghoul gathering.

[04:28]

So, don't... So, Umo is talking to his student, don't indulge in all gathering. And then he said, heaven is heaven, earth is earth, mountain is mountain, water is water, a monk is a monk, and a layperson is a layperson. That's it. So that means if we think mante is something else, it's a delusion. So don't discuss. You know, so Dogen has been discussing just illusion or all gathering. I think that is true. Anyway, another person who said this is, and probably this person's saying is in Dogen's mind, when he wrote this.

[05:40]

That person is Seigen Yuishin. I don't know Chinese pronunciation, Seigen Yuishin. He is a dharma successor of Chinese Rinzai Zen Master Kaido Soshin. Anyway, this Zen Master says, I think this is a very well-known saying, so maybe many of you already know. He said, 30 years ago, when I had not studied then, I saw that mountain is mountain, and waters are waters. And later, I intimately met my teacher and entered, he said, this place, entered this place,

[06:44]

I saw mountain is not mountain, mountains are not mountains, and waters are not waters. Now, I have attained the place of resting, that means stop everything. As before, I simply see that mountains are mountains, and waters are waters. I think you know this. So after, you know, long discussion about what is mountain and what are waters and how we should get into the mountains and really live or drop into the water, finally Dogen says, water is just water and mountains are just mountains. And next he says, therefore, no, these words do not say that mountains are mountains.

[08:00]

They say that mountains are mountains. One possible interpretation is this, you know, first mountains are mountains, is what this Seigen Yūshin preferred, the way he saw the mountains before he practiced them. And the second mountains and waters, mountains-mountain, is maybe after he, you know, how can I say, What he said is, I have attained the place of resting, means after even he, you know, becomes liberated from so-called Zen or enlightenment or whatever. Then, you know, mountains are just mountains. So maybe those two, mountains are mountains, are maybe those two statements, before and after.

[09:06]

Before Zen Master studied Zen, and after he was liberated from Zen, That is same as, you know, the word shusshin in the question to umon. You know, here are the place of shusshin, liberated place, or place of emancipation from Buddha. And the reason why I think Dogen quote this sentence and saying in this way is as a conclusion of this writing on mountains and rivers, sutra, I think he would like to, how can I say, express the idea about the spirit of

[10:14]

are just sitting. Shikantada is just sitting. And mountains are just mountains. And rivers or waters are just waters. This just or simply is, you know, I think most important point in Dogen's teaching. In the case of Zazen, or sitting, we just sit. We do nothing else. Really just sit. And this just sit, or Shikantaza, is often used as a kind of a... one of the approaches to sitting meditation. You know, that is sitting without using koan. but I don't think that is what Dogen meant when he used this expression, shikam taza, or just sitting.

[11:23]

I think this word, just or shikam, is a final answer to his own question about why we have to practice if everything is already in the Buddha nature or Dharma nature or in the reality of all beings. Why we have to study? Why we have to practice? And I think this, you know, originally this expression, Shikantaza, is stated by, not Dogen himself, but his teacher. But this word, shikantada, is very important. One of the key words in Dogen's teaching, just sitting. And not only sitting, but when we eat, we just eat.

[12:29]

When we work in the kitchen, just cook. And when we clean, cleaning, just clean, when we chant, just chant. This attitude of just. I think is the final attitude or final answer by seeing two virtues of mountains and rivers. That means the reality of all beings. That is, as he discussed in San Sui Kyo, abiding in a dharma position peacefully and also keep constantly walking with a kind of to contradicted aspect of one reality. And when we see both sides of reality of our life, what we can do, what kind of attitude we find, is to focus on whatever we are doing

[13:44]

right now, as our kind of a role in our day-to-day lives, or when we are sitting in the zendo, we really just sit, 100% being there, do nothing else. That is one meaning of just sitting. Just be there, just be there peacefully, 100%. nowhere else. That is one, I think, aspect or side of just sitting. And yet, you know, we cannot cling to that position, that dharma position. We have to go to somewhere else, of course. That is the meaning of constantly walking. So we cannot cling to who I am, or what I'm doing, but we often, you know, I want to be a teacher, or I'd like to be a tenzo, or I'd like to be, you know, I want to become a bot, you know, those things.

[15:00]

We cling to, or we want to stay there, but somehow we cannot, so we have to flow. And just washikan means we just do what we are supposed to do at this moment, 100%. But without attachment, without clinging to what we are doing. I think that is the meaning of just sitting, washikan, when Dogen used. Shikantada is not one of our methods of sitting. But shikantada is the thing we can do, or maybe the only thing we can do when we face this reality of peacefully abiding and also constantly walking. Be here.

[16:02]

But within being here, somehow we are moving. So we cannot cling to this position, this dharma position. We have to go to the next dharma position. So this shikan, or just doing something, is very important. So not only in the Zen, but within entire life, over life, of our day-to-day lives, we try to do, just do it. Now this phrase, just do it, is very popular. That is a problem, I think. Just do it. So, finally, I think the final thing Dogen wants to say is, just do it.

[17:11]

When you sit, just sit. When you cook, just cook. When you walk, just walk. When you sit quietly, just sit quietly. And when you think, just think. But we want to do many things at one time. That's a problem. So this is a kind of very simple practice. Just do it. Just be one place at one time. And just do one thing at one time. This doing, just doing, brings us to the next stage. So our practice is not a preparation or a preparation for next stage. But by doing what I'm doing now, This practice brings us to the next stage, I think.

[18:14]

So this practice is very simple. So we wonder why Dogen had to discuss such a simple thing. He had to say, just sit, just do things. But he had to write so many writings. And I think he put here his really lot of energy in writing to explain why we have to just do things at one time. I think because if we take this teaching of just do it carelessly, it becomes another poison, I think. So, we have to understand. Fendogen teaches us, just do it, what this means. And, you know, as an explanation of the meaning, deep meaning of just do it, he has to, you know, write this kind of strange, difficult, almost nonsense, you know, writings.

[19:27]

So we understand this practice of just do it in the context of Dogen's teachings of entire Shobo Genzo, or not only Shobo Genzo, but entire writing of Dogen and also entire, not only writing, but practice, actual practice taught by Dogen. You know, I said, the attitude of, just do it, can be a poison. Because, as you said, we can say, wherever we are, Buddha is hidden. In the war, or in the bombing, or in the selling drugs, or whatever. And I think that is true. And if just do it is without the context of what Dogen is talking, discussing, just do it means just kill. It can be a Buddhist practice in the war.

[20:40]

If we are a soldier, just kill is the application of Dogen's teaching. But that is not Fat Dogen's saying. He is teaching this attitude of just do it in the context of mountains and rivers as a real form, true form of all beings, and in the context of Buddha's teaching. That is, how we can avoid the harmful way to contact with others that cause argument and fighting. So, if we lose the sight of this context, and also to be a Buddhist student, we have to receive precept. Precept is our guideline of our way of life. So, we should understand this teaching, just do it, within the context of this receiving precept, and following, studying, and practicing, and following Buddha's teaching, how to live peacefully in harmony with all beings.

[22:05]

Otherwise, it can be really a poison, I think, because we don't need to think. We don't need to think whether this is good or bad, whether this is harmful or not. Just do it. It's really, how can I say, a kind of opium. Opium? Drug. So, Fat Dogen asks us to understand the deep meaning, profound meaning of just doing in the context of Buddhist practice, following Buddha's teaching. Zen influenced a lot deeply into the culture of samurai or warriors in Japan.

[23:17]

Many people are interested in Zen and martial arts. Somehow I don't like martial arts. I don't like samurai mainly because probably because of my background. My family had been a merchant in the social system in Japan before Meiji. There are basically four kinds of caste. The highest one is samurai, of course. The second is farmers. The third is craftsmen. The lowest is merchant. So I am from the... Of course there are before or below merchant. Those are called the hining or untouchable. But in this system, merchant is the lowest.

[24:21]

And, you know, especially the merchant in Osaka. I'm from Osaka. You know, Osaka is the center of merchandise for 300 years in Tokugawa period. And merchants in Osaka thought they support when they make this entire economy of this society, you know, alive or works. So, and they have, you know, merchants in Osaka have economic power, but don't have, you know, political powers, no, because, and authority, because merchants are lowest. So people in Osaka has a deep kind of a, how can I say, inferior complex, and also superior complex towards people in Tokyo, who have political power and authority.

[25:32]

But people in Osaka think we have money. That's kind of, you know, twisted karma. So actually people in Osaka don't like samurai. Even though we have to pay homage to samurai. But actually I don't like samurai. So please don't ask me about Zen and martial arts. I never practiced martial arts. Anyway, you know, in the Tokugawa period, this idea or influence to the way of warriors or samurai from Zen is a kind of idea. They really didn't use it. I mean, because for 300 years in Japan we had no wars. So warriors didn't fight.

[26:35]

So the way of samurai is a kind of an idea of how samurai should train themselves and what kind of attitude the warriors should maintain. They didn't use this, you know, like a sword and then a wand. in battlefield. But after Meiji, during the war times, we had many wars. Japan experienced many wars. I think for the first time in the history, that idea, ken or sword and zen are one, is put into use, into practice. And I think that was really a poison or misuse or abuse of this idea of Zen. Just do it. After Meiji? Meiji is the second half of the 19th century.

[27:37]

World War II is the final one. Before that, you know, yeah, in the... Right. Yeah. You know, if we miss the context of this practice of just do it, That means, in a sense, a judgment of not killing. With this vow of not killing, if we apply this teaching, just do it. We can apply this attitude in any condition or situation. And if this attitude is used in the condition of war, You know, it's really a terrible thing. It has nothing to do with Buddha's teaching.

[28:46]

But people in that period, I mean in Japan, used Zen in that way. I think, you know, that is the first I think Daizen Victoria wrote in the book, Zen at War. And I think it's really that Zen or Buddhism is kind of twisted because of that situation. Anyway, two more sentences. When we thoroughly study the mountains, this is the mountain training. So, Dogen asked us to thoroughly study mountains. Without studying mountains, you know, this idea of just doing it may become a poison.

[29:50]

So we need to thoroughly study what this mountain is. That is, we are living together with all beings. Then, this practice, this study is the mountain training. I think it means mountain is training mountain. or a mountain studies the mountain. I think that is the same thing he said before. And then, such mountains and waters themselves become wise men and sages. So that reality of all beings becomes wise. Wise men and sages means a real person of the way. Well, that is the end of Sanseikyo, and he says, Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma, Book 29, The Mountains and Waters Sutra, presented to the Assembly, 18th day, 10th month, first year of Nin-ji, that means 1240, at Kannon-dori, Kosho-ho-rin-ji.

[31:07]

So he wrote the title, and the fear, and when he wrote this fascicle. Well, this is the end of my lecture. We have 25 more minutes, if this watch is correct. If you have any question or statement, please. First of all, thank you very much. I really enjoyed this session. My question is about the teaching of Shikantaza, or Shikon, and Just Do It. My understanding is that as Dogen A. got older, he more and more emphasized monastic training. And I'm wondering, when you're saying that the teaching of Just Do It makes sense in the context of Buddha's teaching, do you think he was referring specifically to monastic training? In the case of Dogen, I think yes.

[32:16]

When he teach the practice of just doing it, he meant his teaching to his disciples who were practicing in the monastic setting. And whether we apply this teaching to our day-to-day lives in the 21st century or not is, I think, our responsibility. If my understanding is correct, I think Uchiyama Roshi tried to find the way to apply this practice into modern lives. I think. And he tried to find a kind of idea and principle But, you know, he was really living in a temple in Japan and just sat.

[33:39]

And since he was not a physically strong person, he was not so active in the society. So he was trying to find the essence of Dogen's or Buddha's teachings and find, try to find the meaning of that practice or teaching in our modern lives, I think. So he has an idea, but his idea is not yet, I think, practiced actually widely. And I think One thing I'd like to do is to transmit Dogen's, Buddha's, Dogen's and Uchiyama's teaching to this country and try to find how to find a way how this teaching can work without, you know, making too much poison.

[34:41]

Well, I keep saying I don't like forms. But please don't make this your excuse not to practice forms sincerely. When I say I don't like forms, I have no dislikeness. Do you understand what I mean? I do forms. And I don't dislike forms. but also I don't like it. So within this saying, I don't like it, I have no hatred, no dislikeness. Please. Well, that expression is shuusaku, juusaku.

[35:51]

Shuusaku, juusaku. SHO SAKU JU SAKU SHO is with SAKU is mistake and SHU is to go or to reach and SAKU is mistake again. So with mistake go to mistake.

[36:54]

This is one expression Dogen used, but he didn't say because of this I practice, I started to practice or my life is one continuous series of mistakes. But this is kind of a well-known Zen expressions. Please. In Japanese? Shuu, shaku, juu, shaku, well... With mistake or from one mistake to another mistake. Maybe that's the meaning. From one mistake to another mistake. So the meaning of this statement is one continuation of mistakes. But in this case, mistake is not a negative thing. I mean, we try to do one thing, I found, you know, this is not enough, this is not deep enough, so we go next, and we find, you know, this is not yet complete, so we continue.

[38:20]

So in that sense, actually, our practice of our life is, you know, from one mistake to another. This is how we practice. And this is, in a sense, an expression of our repentance. And also the expression of our vow. Endless vow. Okay. Please. In a couple of these interpretations, the notes, it says, I didn't know for a long time almost 20 years how to read this, how to understand it.

[39:35]

I didn't really understand even one sentence in Sanskrit for a long time. It's not because, you know, I lack knowledge. I had more knowledge in my 20s. I read many books, but now I'm forgetting knowledge. But something became clear, more and more clear to me, through not thinking or accumulation of knowledge, but through, I think, my aging, and maybe experience of Zazen. So sometimes I said, you know, I have been saying during this session is just my, you know, temporal report, temporary report. So we don't take, you know, this is my final understanding. You know, next year maybe I say completely different ways.

[40:38]

So, please read not only Sanskrit, but any Dogen's writings, or not only Dogen, but any Buddhist writing, through your understanding and experience. That means study and practice. I think that is the most important point. And the fact you hear from me is just one fantasy. So please don't trust. Please. At the beginning of the week, I'm not sure I heard you correctly, and I should have been here after then, but when in the Part 2, you said Part 2, where he says the stone woman gives birth to a child in the night. Did I understand you to say that Dogen didn't make any comment on that? He didn't talk, he didn't even comment.

[41:44]

Well, he made a short comment. As, yeah, but that is how can I say, simply a kind of a quote from the different stories. So I don't really find a strong statement in there. But what he said about this thing is not about a stone woman, but a child and parent. Yeah, that part he said. But he didn't say, and he said Fat is a knight. nice time, but he didn't say fat is stone woman or fat stone means really. So then on page 12, the paragraph that talks about that is Carl Bielfeldt's interpretation.

[42:50]

Yeah, I think so. From his his investment through other commentaries. Is there anything specifically that we can do for you to help you continue your efforts to bridge this Japanese, and American, and Buddhist situation? Is there anything we can do for you? Yes. I was just on a mailing list. You have just received a letter from me, and a description from the religions and community. of their plans to build the center in Bloomfield and their requests for donations to help build it.

[44:02]

Yes. And we make our checks to enable them to... As soon as we have enough money to mail. It's already printed, so it's ready, but we are a little short of money. I mean, we purchased land in the town. of Bloomington, a little bit smaller than one acre, and that land has no building. I raised some money from Japan, about, let's see, 75,000 or so.

[45:12]

And some donation from this country is seed money. And instead of paying loan for the land, we paid off. So now Sanshin owns the land, but because we paid off, you know, we don't, we have a short of kind of source. But we have just enough to start construction of the first building, in which we have a temporary zendo, kitchen, office space, and a few rooms for visitors or residents, and dormitories. three floors. That is the first and probably the biggest building we are going to build. And next building is a house for my family.

[46:18]

We need a house to live. So we have enough money to start the first construction, but we need money to build the second one. That's our need. How? Well, when I was in Minneapolis, once I was invited to the group there, and I read a session. And kind of as a coincidence, one old friend of mine from Kyoto was there. His name is John McRae. He died in 1975. The first place I stayed is his place. At that time he lived in Los Angeles. And he had a small kind of a nursing home.

[47:21]

And that is the first place I stayed in this country. And when I met him in Bloomington, now he teaches in Bloomington, he asked me to come. After I finished my tenure at the Minnesota Zen Meditation Center, I formed this sangha, and I was looking for a place to locate it. And so Bloomington became one of the possibilities. We have several other possibilities. And unfortunately, right after we started to look for a place, I had to move to California. So it was a very unfortunate thing for this community. You know, since then I have been in California for about five years. On one hand, it's unfortunate, but on the other hand, I think it's very fortunate for me, too, and also for Sanshin, too.

[48:40]

Because, you know, during these last five years, I have been traveling all over and practicing with many sanghas and many teachers and many students. So now I have a kind of an overall view of American, at least sort of then, and I find What I'd like to do in Bloomington or in Sanshin, I think is very important and helpful to, how can I say, I don't like the word, develop, or progress, or deepen the understanding of Dharma. I think our practice has kind of two directions. One is deepen it, another is spread it. And I think to spread the Dharma is not my job as a teacher from Japan.

[49:46]

But American teachers should spread the Dharma in a way accessible from larger society. But what I can do, my best contribution is to transmit what I studied and practiced in Japan. to people in this country. And that is what I'd like to do. So I don't think Sanshin Practice Center is a local sangha. There is a local sangha there, in the center of Bloomington. We share the same place, but I'd like to keep it independent to each other. That sangha develop, you know, practice as a local Sangha. But what I want to do at Sanshin is to focus on sitting practice, Zazen and Dogen study.

[50:48]

Of course, in order to study Dogen, we have to study, you know, almost all teachings of Buddhism. So, Dogen study includes study on general Buddhism. So, you know, by through activities, not in California, but through the Sotozen Education Center, my vision become getting clearer. So I feel this is very fortunate thing. Well, okay. Please. my vision, my will. So, as I said, I want to establish a place where people can, you know, since my students are scattering all over, so this place is a kind of hub of the community where people can come and sit and study with me whenever they want or they can.

[52:08]

That is my vision. So this center is, I don't think, is a monastery study and sitting center. Yeah, I'd like to. Well, I think, you know, everyday sitting may be done by the Zen Center of Romantum, and we join. But it's not clear yet, you know, until I move there. Or until we have Zendo House. So it's still not in reality, but it's getting become reality. So I really appreciate any help from you. Do you think, for example, that students from other local groups might come and spend some period of time sitting sashimi with you and helping you translate?

[53:15]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. I think I'd like to keep that kind of a connection with any Zen centers or I think, you know, while I'm visiting and practicing with different sanghas, I found that teachers are very busy. During session, teachers cannot sit. They have so many things to do to take care of students. So I think for teachers to have this kind of session, I think, is really a good thing. They are really just sitting with us teaching. I think it's bliss. I have had occasion to go and sit with another Sangha. It's so wonderful. Yeah. It's almost 4.30.

[54:15]

Do you have an organized fundraising effort and people carrying this activity out? It's not in good shape. It's not established because I'm not there. And people are really working hard, but people are, you know, different places, so it's not really well organized. Not centralized. Yeah, right. Yeah, even I don't know what's going on. But somehow it's happening. I mean, Todd helped us to make the brochure of Sanshin. So I really appreciate his help. Thank you. Most of the people that are translating and helping you are 50-ish year old men.

[55:43]

Are there any women now in this country that are helping you translate or interpret? Helping me? Translation? Or interpret? I mean, in the studies, are there any women right now that are participating? Participating, but are also ahead, I mean, at this level, let's say. I don't know how good it is. I'm just curious, you know. I mean, are there many women scholars, Buddhist women scholars, that you work with? Or are you going to develop a group? I don't know. Yeah, just do it. Please?

[56:44]

You know, our practice spirit is on compassionate practices. And I don't think we have a much better example than Lisa showing us to do this. I said, Thank you very much. Let me talk one more thing. What is the title of the book that is a collection of Suzuki Roshi's student experience with Suzuki Roshi? Shining One Corner. Yeah, in that book, Mel Weitzman wrote his experience about love chant with Suzuki Roshi.

[57:56]

Mel asks Suzuki Roshi, what's the meaning of this chanting? I think they chant in Japanese, so they didn't know what this is. And Mel said, Suzuki-dō pointed his heart and Suzuki-dō said, Love, L-O-V-E. And Mel talked about this experience at the Dōgen Zenji Symposium. And right after that, Karl Birgfeld said in a very small voice, low voice, how do Japanese people pronounce low? Do you understand? In Japanese, we have a distinction between R sound and L sound. and B sound and V sound.

[58:57]

So, Karl will have to guess is Suzuki Roshi's point, his lax answer, rope. I don't know Karl is right or not. You know, this is the same thing about, you know, Dogen's dropping of body and mind, whether it's misunderstanding or not. But I think the same thing might happen, you know, many things like that happen during this week. I think, Fen, you listen to my lecture. But, you know, In the case of males, it's very wonderful, positive. I hope what happened this week is also positive, not harmful for the sake of Dharma.

[60:01]

Okay, thank you very much.

[60:03]

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