Good afternoon, everyone. This morning I finished, I think, the talk on the introduction, so I go to the next section about the things of Blue Mountains is always walking by Zen Master Let me read that section. Preceptor Kai of Mount Beiyang addressed the assembly, saying, the Blue Mountains are constantly walking. The stone woman gives birth to a child in the night.

[01:02]

The mountains lack none of their proper virtues. Hence, they are constantly at rest and constantly walking. We must devote ourselves to a detailed study of this virtue of walking. Since the walking of the mountains should be like that of people, one ought not doubt that the mountains walk simply because they may not appear to stride like humans. This saying of the Buddha and Ancestor Dōkai has pointed out walking It has got what is fundamental and we should thoroughly investigate this address on constant walking.

[02:05]

It is constant because it is walking. Although the walking of the blue mountains is faster than swift as the wind, those in the mountains do not sense this, do not know it. To be in the mountains is a flower opening within the world. Those outside the mountains do not sense this, do not know it. Those without eyes to see the mountains do not sense, do not know, do not see, do not hear the reason for this. To doubt the walking of the mountains means that one does not yet know one's own walking. It is not that one does not walk, but that one does not yet know, has not made clear this walking.

[03:12]

Those who would know their own walking must also know the walking of the Blue Mountains. The Blue Mountains are not sentient. They are not insentient. We ourselves are not sentient. We are not insentient. We can have no doubts about these Blue Mountains walking. We do not know what measure of Dharma realms would be necessary to clarify the Blue Mountains. We should do a clear accounting of the Blue Mountains walking and our own walking. including an accounting of both stepping back and back-stepping, we should do an accounting of the fact that, since the very time before any subtle sign, since the other side of the king of emptiness, walking by stepping forward and back has never stopped,

[04:27]

for a moment. If walking had ever rested, the Buddhas and ancestors would never have appeared. If walking were limited, the Buddha Dharma would never have reached us today. Stepping forward has never ceased. Stepping back has never ceased. Stepping forward does not oppose stepping back. nor does stepping back oppose stepping forward. This virtue is called the mountain flowing, the flowing mountain. The Blue Mountains devote themselves to the investigation of walking. The East Mountain studies moving over the water. Hence, this study is the mountain's own study. The mountains, without altering their own body and mind, with their own mountain countenance, have always been circling back to study themselves.

[05:42]

Do not slander mountains by saying that the blue mountains cannot walk. nor the East Mountain move over the water. It is because of the baseness of the common people's point of view that we doubt the phrase, the Blue Mountain's Walk. Because of the crudeness of our limited experience, we are surprised by the words, Flowing Mountain. Without having fully penetrated even the term are flowing water. We just remain sunk in our limited perception. Thus, the accumulated virtues of the mountain brought up here represent its very name and form, its vital artery. There is a mountain walk and a mountain flow.

[06:46]

There is a time when the mountains give birth to a mountain child. The mountains become the Buddhas and ancestors, and it is for this reason that the Buddhas and ancestors have thus appeared. Even when we have the eyes to see mountains as the appearance of grass and trees, earth and stone, fences and walls, this is nothing to doubt, nothing to be moved by. It is not the complete appearance of the mountains. Even when there appears an occasion in which the mountains are seen as a splendor of the seven treasures, this is still not the real refuge. Even when they appear to us as the realm of the practice of the way of the Buddhas, this is not necessarily something to be desired.

[07:53]

Even when we attain the crowning appearance of the vision of the mountains as the inconceivable virtues of the Buddhas, their reality is more than this. Each of these appearances is the particular objective and subjective result of past karma. They are not the karma of the way of the Buddhas and ancestors, but narrow, one-sided views. Turning the object and turning the mind is criticized by the great sage. Explaining the mind and explaining the nature is not affirmed by the Buddhas and ancestors. Seeing the mind and seeing the nature is the business of non-Buddhists.

[08:55]

Sticking to words and sticking to phrases are not the words of revelation. There are words that are free from such realms. They are the Blue Mountains constantly walking and the East Mountain moving over the water. We should give them detailed investigation. The stone woman gives birth to a child in the night. This means that the time when a stone woman gives birth to a child is the night. There are male stones, female stones, and stones neither male nor female. They repair heaven and they repair earth. There are stones of heaven and there are stones of earth. Though this said in the secular world, it is rarely understood.

[10:01]

We should understand the reason behind this, giving birth to a child. At the time of birth, a parent and child transform together We should not only study that birth is realized in the child becoming the parent. We should also study and fully understand that the practice and verification of birth is realized when the parent becomes the child. It's quite a long section. Well, Dogon quotes very short and precise sayings of the master Dōkai, or Fuyō Dōkai. And Fuyō Dōkai is a very important master in our lineage.

[11:11]

I mean, our Sōtō lineage. He lived in the 10th, 11th century, second half of 11th century and first beginning of 12th century. His teacher, Taiyō or Taiyō-dōkai, here he said Taiyō-dōkai, but we commonly call him Fuyō-dōkai. Both are the names where he lived, so either is okay. Fuyō Dōkai's teacher was Tōsu Gisei.

[12:14]

He was also an eminent master. You know, in the history of Sōtō lineage after Tōzan Ryokai is the founder of Sōtō lineage. And his disciple is Ungo Doyo. And Ungo Doyo was a well-known teacher. But after Ungo Doyo, three generations, Do-an Do-hi Dai-yo-sho, Do-an Kan-shi Dai-yo-sho, and Ryo-zan En-kan Dai-yo-sho, we don't know about those three teachers. are unknown. And there's no other, at least I don't know, no other disciples of those teachers.

[13:17]

Because this time, that is the 10th century, is the end of Tang dynasty. And some dynasties started in the end of 10th century. So almost 100 years, the China, Chinese society is pretty much in disorder. You know, one system is completely, you know, fall apart. And it takes a long time to establish, you know, next system. So maybe that is the reason, you know, there aren't many masters or practitioners in the record. And the next person after Ryōzan Enkan was Taiyō Kyōgen.

[14:22]

This person Taiyō Kyōgen Daiyōshō lived 943, I mean, was born and died 1027. So this person lived in the very beginning of some dynasty. And in our lineage, Tō Sugisei is a successor of Taiyō Kyōgen, if you remember our lineage. But Tosugisei was born 1032 and died 11... 1083. You know, Taiyokyogen died 1027 and Tosugisei was born 1032. There's a kind of a gap. That means Tosugisei really didn't practice with Taiyokyogen. So our lineage has a gap.

[15:31]

And this was a kind of important discussion or argument in the 17th century, you know, sort of scala marks, whether it first happened. And some people negate, you know, this history. And they thought people like Menzan. So, you know, they must meet. And Dharma should be transmitted from face to face, from Taiyo Kyogen to Tosugisei. But actual reality is It seems Taiyo Kyogen's disciples died before him. And he had a good student whose name was Fuzan Ho'on. Fudan Ho-on was a disciple of Rinzai the Master, whose name is Susan Shonen.

[16:40]

This Fudan Ho-on is a very, it seems, great person. If you have read the Chiji Shingi, that is a part of Ehe Shingi, Dogen Zenji quote many stories about eminent practitioners who practice as a monastery officers. This person's story is very interesting and unique. This is a person when he was a Tenzo, his teacher was very strict. and they didn't have much food to eat. So this ho-on, he was a tenzo, stole some food and offered it to the assembly. And he was kicked out of the monastery and his teacher asked him to repay the food he stole.

[17:48]

And he did. And Dogen Zenji very much praised this person, Fuzan Ho-on. And this Ho-on practiced with Taiyo Kyogen. But Ho-on was already transmitted, received transmission from his Rinzai teacher. So Taiyo asked Fuzan Ho-en to transmit his dharma to someone else, to some great practitioners. And Tosu Gisei was a student of this person, Fusan Hoen. So, Taiyo Kyogen's dharma was transmitted to Tosu Gisei through this person, Fusan Hoen. So, that is a... seems that is a reality.

[18:51]

So, our lineage is once cut off. I don't care about that. For many people, it's a problem. But, you know, to me, this lineage thing is not a historical reality. But this is made up in China. you know, in India, Indian people, for Indian people, you know, this lineage is not important, I think. But for Chinese, the lineage of family as a kind of a culture is very important. So, there are at least a few or several versions of this lineage of them until they determined That was after the Sixth Ancestor, Huinan. So this is not... Historically, this is not true.

[19:58]

But this is an expression of the idea. So if we understand the idea and we want to transmit or continue this idea that Dharma is transmitted through direct encounter between teacher and student, then this lineage works. But we don't need to believe this is historically true. You know, as I said yesterday, even the story of Dharma transmission from Buddha to Mahakasyapa was made in 10th century. So, anyway, this Fuyodokai was a great teacher.

[21:01]

He was a very sincere person. In the Song dynasty, Zen became a kind of a Buddhist establishment and supported by the government. You know, supported by government means being controlled by government. I mean, major monasteries are financially supported by the government. And the abbot of those monasteries, it's called the Five Mountains, were appointed by the emperor. And of course, to be a Buddhist monk or priest in Chinese society, they need permission from the government. Because this person, Fuyō Dōkai, was very virtuous and well-known and sincere teacher, the emperor asked him to be the abbot of certain big monastery and emperor wanted to give him the honorific title of great teacher.

[22:38]

But this person, Fuyō Dōkai, refused, rejected. You know, in ancient China, to reject emperor's order means some kind of punishment. And he was exiled, really. Dōkai didn't reject the honorific title because he didn't like or he was against the authority, but because he didn't want to, how can I say, he wanted to be free from fame and profit. So, you know, when he rejected, a messenger was sent by the emperor.

[23:43]

And that person, the minister, asked him, if you are sick, you know, there's a reason you cannot be an abbot. So, tell me, you are sick." But Fuyō Dōkai said, I was sick recently, but now I'm fine. So, the messenger couldn't find any excuse. So, finally, Fuyō Dōkai was exiled and he went to his hometown where he established another monastery. That was Fuyō. Fuyo Mountain. I think that was when he was, I think, about 66 or 67. So he was already a very well-known teacher.

[24:48]

And because of this incident, he became more popular. So under him, after he moved to Fuyo, many students came to practice with him. And according to the record, he had 93 disciples. And among them, 29 people received Dharma transmission and became the abbot of different temples or monasteries. So after this person, Fuyō Dōkai, Sōtō lineage became kind of revived and popular. So if this person, Fuyodokai, isn't there, maybe, you know, there's no Sotozen today. Anyway, this person says at the Jodo, a very simple statement, blue mountains,

[25:56]

The blue mountains are constantly walking. The stone woman gives birth to a child in the night. I thought this might be a part of longer discourse, and I tried to find the source, but it seems that he, you know, sit and just say this saying, two sentences, and descend. So no explanation and no discussion, no question, no answer is recorded. So this is just it. He said nothing but this. The blue mountains are constantly walking. The stone woman gives birth to a child in the night.

[27:05]

That's it. And he left. I wonder if his students understand this or not. Maybe he had been talking about something connecting with this statement before. But anyway, this is only thing we know. And what this means is, you know, this is kind of very paradoxical, almost nonsense statement. So, what this means is a question to us, that is a question to us. And Dogen Zenji used this statement to express his understanding of the reality of Nikon, or this moment, or this present moment, and Kobutsu, or eternal Buddha.

[28:12]

And that is the reality of our life. The next paragraph. The mountains lack none of their proper virtues. Hence, they are constantly at rest and constantly walking. Constantly at rest is and constantly walking. Jō means constantly, or always, or permanently. So, Dōgen says, this mountain has two virtues.

[29:27]

One is always peaceful, abiding, staying, living, dwelling. So being there. So that means peacefully being there. That means don't move. and this one is constantly walking. So Dogen says mountain has the virtue of always being there. And another side is always walking, always moving, always changing. These are the two sides of the time I talked this morning. Each moment is... that's it.

[30:30]

But the time has also a virtue of coming and going. The virtue, function of coming and going and virtue of being there. Each moment is there. And in each moment, beginningless past and endless future is included. This doesn't move, this doesn't change. But including this doesn't change, it is going, it is moving. Those are the two sides of the virtue of the mountains. 1988, I first came to this country after I went back to Japan from Massachusetts.

[31:36]

I visited Japanese, American temples and Zen centers to give a Dharma talk. And I think that was 1989. That was the second time I came. I gave lectures about Gakudo Yōjinshū. Gakudo Yōjinshū is one of the Dōgen's writings. The English title is Points to Watch in Practicing the Way. And in the very first section of this writing, Dogen said... Dogen discussed about body-mind or awakening-mind. And he said, awakening-mind is the mind that sees the impermanence of all beings.

[32:38]

And to allow the body-mind is most important. So to see the impermanence is really important to practice. That was the year, you know, Katagiri Roshi was sick. I think after San Francisco, I went to Minneapolis and I gave a talk there and Katagiri Roshi was sick. He had cancer. And from Minneapolis, I went to Massachusetts. There, one of Katagi Yoshiji's students, whose name was Yutaka Ishii, a person from Hawaii, I think, was dying with cancer. He had a cancer on his throat, so he couldn't speak and he couldn't eat. And actually, he died

[33:44]

ten days after my visit. So, you know, I talked about impermanence and I see the reality of impermanence. And a friend of mine who is working for a Buddhist publisher in Japan asked me to write an essay on my trip to America. So I wrote about impermanence and through what I see, I talked about Gakudo Youjinshu and see, you know, what I saw during that trip. And so I said impermanence... And Uchiyama Roshi did my article.

[34:49]

And he said, you know, when you talk about Gakudo Yojinshu, it's okay, impermanence is important. We should see impermanence. But he said, impermanence is only half of Dharma. I was kind of shocked. I was very glad that read my article and kindly give me his comment. And since then, then, Fatiha, another half of Dharma, was kind of my koan. And, of course, I understand, you know, because I had been, you know, studying with Uchen Morochi for a long time. You know, he is always saying, the reality of our life is before separation or distinction between anything, any dichotomy, even permanence and impermanence.

[36:00]

Permanence is only one side of reality. Intellectually, I knew, but, you know, Until then I couldn't express or write or consciously think about it. Not only think, but for me to see impermanence is kind of a difficult thing because I was young. Now impermanence is a real reality. I'm getting older and older. And my eyes are getting weaker and weaker. And things I could do without any problems become more and more difficult. So now I really feel impermanent. So impermanence is not something I have to see. Because it's there. It's my body.

[37:03]

It's my life. But when I was young, impermanence is a kind of a truth. or teaching something I have to study and I have to investigate. I think around the same time Uchiyama wrote poems, a collection of poems. At that time he was very sick and we expected he was dying any time. I think he was around in the early 70s, but somehow he lived 16 years more. He died when he was 86, so it was really amazing. But at that time, I think he also expected his own death, and he wrote a poem about life and death, a collection of poems.

[38:09]

It was really a beautiful poem, I think. Beautiful and also profound. It's not published as a formal book, but Tom Wright and me translated those poems. And I think that our translation is on the website of the Sanshinzen community. So if you are interested, try to visit the website. Pardon? I don't remember. I'll check it. One of the poems in that collection is something like, let's see, he said, though poor, never poor, though aging, never aging, though sick, never sick, though dying, never dying,

[39:37]

Do you understand? He said, this is the reality of life. As a reality, you know, he was poor. He said he never worked for making money. After only six months, he had a regular income in his entire life. When he was a teacher at a seminary of Catholic Catholic seminary. He taught philosophy and mathematics. Since then, he never worked. He never had a regular income. So he was really poor, actually. His life was very rich, but his livelihood is poor. And he lived with TB for 50 years, more than 50 years. He married in his early 20s, while he was a university student.

[40:49]

And his wife, that wife, died with TB. And he transmitted TB from that wife. And he married again. And the second wife also died while she was pregnant. That was one of the reasons he really wanted to be a Buddhist monk, Sawaki Roshi's student. Anyway, he had TB for more than 50 years. Physically, he was a very weak person. He was often sick. Even while he was at an Taiji, sometimes he couldn't sit. And sometimes he vomited blood. And half of his lungs didn't work. So he was actually sick often.

[41:54]

And of course he was aging. And he was dying. That is reality. of half-sight. And yet he said, you know, in that poem, he said, he was never poor. His life was really rich. He lived with the entire universe. And he was never sick. And he was never aging. and he was never dying. You know, this is another half of reality according to Dogen. I mean, not Dogen, but Uchiyama Roshi. And so, I know that point of Roshi's teaching, but that is not my reality.

[42:57]

So, since then, I have been thinking, you know, reality of life, or total reality of our life, including impermanence, the reality of impermanence. And then fat is another side of reality of life, which is never poor, never sick, never aging, never dying, and also never dead. What is this? Is this Buddhist teaching or not? Buddha said everything is impermanent. Then this kind of teaching, reality before separation of impermanence and permanence, came. That was a question to me. Do you have any answer? Actually, I don't have answer.

[44:00]

Yes, I think this kind of teaching of Dogen is a source of Uchiyama Roshi's understanding or insight about the entire reality. So, in one side, everything is always abiding, always there, starting to move. But at the same time, everything is always changing, always moving, coming and going. That's Dogen's teaching. And that is also Uchamaru-shi's insight about life and death. Even though he's dying, he never dies. So to me, this teaching of Dogen is very important. And from now, this is my koan, how can I, not only from now, I think even when we are young and healthy, we have to think about how we can manifest this kind of always constantly, peacefully abiding reality of life within

[45:37]

the reality of impermanence, always coming and going, always changing, always, you know, we are moved around by our thinking, our delusion. How can we divert both sides of reality? Yes, yeah, that is what Dogen said. And when I tried to understand Uchiyama Roshi's teaching, I found this is the source of what my teacher is saying. So, until recently, this kind of teaching is a kind of... I intellectually understood it, but it was not my reality. That is something I have to study intellectually, otherwise it's never reality to me.

[46:41]

But, you know, after Uchiyama Moroshi died, my old friends started to die. And, actually, last month, the Abbot of Antares died. He was the same age as me. Have you met him? Shinyu Miyaura. Yes, yes. He was, I think, the same age, 54, three or four. He was killed. He was working to remove the snow along the road by the river, and somehow he fell into the river. That was February 14th, so less than one month ago.

[47:51]

This month, last month. I was really surprised. Anyway, you know. I become getting closer to this reality of, you know, being sick, aging, and dying. Still, you know, I'm young, I can do many things, but somehow it becomes the reality of my life. So I have to find How can I use, in a sense, the word use is not a good word, but how can I use the rest of my life to express this reality before separation of impermanence and, in a sense, permanence? Anyway, so this is

[49:02]

where Dogen discussed about permanence and impermanence. And those should not be separate, but those should be one. Should be one sentence, as Uchiyama Roshi wrote in his poem. Though aging, never aging. Though sick, never sick. Though dying, never dying. And it's the virtue of the mountains. The mountain is very stable, immovable. But according to Zen Master Dōkai, the mountain is always walking. So we have to find, you know, to see the mountain as immovable thing is, you know, very easy for us because it doesn't move.

[50:10]

Or at least it looks not moving. But as a knowledge we know, you know, for example, Indian subcontinent and Australia and Antarctic are one thing, one continent, long time ago. And they separate. and India subcontinent went to north and hit another continent and the part which was hit became Himalaya mountains. So Himalaya mountains used to be under the ocean. So ocean become highest mountain in the world. So we know, you know, not only mountain, but even continent is moving. walking, but I don't think Dogen knew that. Or, you know, Chinese Zen master.

[51:14]

So we knew, we have more knowledge about the changing, moving, quality of one's pains. Actually, he used the word, kudoku. Kudoku is the same word he used before. Yes. So, nothing is lacking. All virtues are there. Yeah, nothing is lacking.

[52:21]

Both sides are there, always. So Dogen is saying, the mountain, please. Mountain has two virtues, or two sides of one virtue, that is, and always walking. We must devote ourselves to a detailed study of this virtue of walking. because we know the other side of the mountain is starting to move.

[53:24]

But mountains walk is something unusual, something we don't usually see. So Dogen wants us to investigate what this means. Water is... something is always walking. Since the walking of the mountains should be like that of people, one ought not doubt that. The mountains walk simply because they may not appear to stride like humans. For us, you know, of course, mountain doesn't, you know, like walking. That is a matter of course. But he said we should not doubt that. Mountain is walking. And that is, you know, that is, mountain is moving within the time.

[54:33]

As I said this morning, that is mountain walking. Today, this moment, this moment, this moment, mountain is walking. And yet, in each moment, mountain doesn't walk. always abiding there, peacefully. This saying of the Buddha and ancestor, Dōkai, has pointed out walking. It has got what is fundamental, and we should thoroughly investigate this address on constant walk. So, he asked us to investigate what this means. It is constant because it is walking. Although the walking of the Blue Mountain is faster than swift as the wind, those in the mountains do not sense this, do not know it.

[55:44]

He said, because it's walking, it's constant. You know, walking and constant, or constant, jo means permanent, and walking means impermanent. So, what he's saying is, because mountain is impermanent, it is permanent. Kind of a strange thing. You know, this kind of logic is often used in the Prajnaparamita Sutra, like a diamond sutra. It doesn't move. Because it doesn't move, it moves. Or, because it moves, it doesn't move. And this expression, switched as the wind, came from the Lotus Sutra.

[56:47]

So, he just used this. So, it's not important to find out the meaning in the Lotus Sutra. So, what he's saying is the mountain is walking so quickly like wind. But the important point is next. Those in the mountains Those in the mountains, people in the mountains, a person in the mountains, you know, this is what I have been pointing several times. People in the mountains, or those in the mountains, do not sense this, do not know it. And to be in the mountains is a flower opening within the world. He said, because we are in the mountains, as I said this morning, we are always in the mountains.

[58:07]

We are born within this world, and we live in this world, and we are always are connected with all beings in this entire world. And, in this case, mountain is like the world we are living in. There is no way to get out of the world or get over the mountain. We are always in the mountains. So, within mountain, we are there. And, next moment, something might be changed. and next moment something might be changed. But as a dharma position of the mountain at this moment, it's abiding peacefully. And within this moment, entire past and entire future is reflected.

[59:07]

And in the next moment, same thing. Something must be changed. But within this moment, as a quality of this moment, you know, past and present are included. And moment by moment, you know, it's flowing, it's changing, it's working. But since we are in the mountain, we cannot observe this moving, this walking from outside, like we are in the train. When we are in the train, we don't see outside the wind. We don't feel the train is moving. So even though, even when we sit quietly in the zendo, Actually, because the earth is turning around.

[60:11]

When we sit one day, we turn around the entire earth. So it's really moving quickly. But when we sit, we don't feel the movement of the earth. So we think we are sitting still. But even when we are sitting, we are really moving around faster than a car. But we don't sense it. I think that is true. So, people or persons in the mountains don't see the walk of mountains. But that doesn't mean the person or the mountain in which the person lives does not move.

[61:16]

He said, it moves, but because we are in the mountain, we don't feel or sense the movement. Everything is changing, but we usually think, you know, we usually don't think we are changing, or we want to believe I am the same person. But actually, I think, you know, everything is changing. And this person is changing, too. And nothing stays without changing. And next he says, Those outside the mountains do not sense this, do not know it. and fear is outside the mountains. I think there's no such thing. You know, we are all in the mountains.

[62:21]

But this means, outside the mountains means, next sentence, those without eyes to see the mountains do not sense, do not know, do not see, do not hear the reason for this. unless we have the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind to hear, to see, to taste this movement. He said that condition is outside of the mountain. Actually, we are in the mountains. We are always in the mountains. But, Feng, we don't see the eye. Feng, if Unless we have the eye to see the mountains, we don't really see it. And in that sense, we are outside of the mountains.

[63:32]

So we are always in the mountains, but we don't See, usually we don't see the eye to see the walk of mountain, so we don't see it. Even when we see, we know that mountain is walking, because we are in the mountains, we don't see it. So, basically, there's no way to see it. But still, mountain is moving. How can we believe that? How can Dogen say that? I think this is a question for me for a long time. You know, for example, when he wrote in the Dijūzan, he wrote many things happened in our Dazen. And finally he said, we cannot conceive it. Conceive those things happening. He just described as a virtue of Dazen.

[64:36]

But finally he said, we cannot perceive it. Because we are in the Samadhi, there is no way, because there is no separation between subject, the person sitting, and the Samadhi. The person sitting cannot see the Zen, because we are already in the Zen. Since we are already Jijyo Zanmai, we cannot see Jiju Zanmai. As, you know, our eyes cannot see our eyes. So, whether we, even, he said, even when we have the eyes, still we don't see it. And when we don't have the eyes, we don't see it. So, anyway, we don't see it. Then how he could know And how can we, how can I say, understand what he's saying is right or wrong?

[65:47]

This is a question for me for a long time. And I'm still in the process of searching the answer. Please. Sometimes I get the impression he's just like working against our My answer so far, this is not the final answer. I'm still in the process, but I think even though we don't see it as an object, but we feel that, not feel with body or some kind of sense organs, but somehow through our practice of zazen, you know, we feel, I don't like the word feel, but that's a better word. I don't know, somehow I experience it.

[66:51]

Experience is not good, since it's not intuition. Okay, if it's the right word. Suspected. Somehow, sometimes, from the very bottom of our being, we feel this is true. Not from here. And not from any sense organ. But from the very bottom of our existence, we feel this is true. Intuition? Okay. Intuition. Does it also have to do with the Dharma eye or understanding? Yes, I think this is the Dharma eye. So the Dharma eye is not Buddha's wisdom. It's not a certain way of using our brain.

[67:54]

But Buddha's wisdom, which sees both sides of this reality, is in my in experience or practice, it doesn't. When we let go, when I let go of my thinking, somehow it's there. But when I, as Sushi said in his poem, when I try to explain it, it becomes a word, it becomes a concept, or something man-made, and it's not reality anymore. So, in order to really see it, we have to really practice. I think that is a point Dogen always says we should practice. Please. It occurs to me, as you describe the practice of zazen, it's constantly letting go of thought. It's a process of constantly letting go of anything that you can see.

[68:56]

In other words, in some way returning to the inconceivable. It's impossible to talk about it because what we're doing Yeah, so, you know, it's too difficult for me to discuss. Please. It reminds me of a phrase from the Jagna Sutra. A mountain is a mountain. A mountain is not a mountain. A mountain is a mountain. And, just saying it, you sense the change, even though Yeah. Yeah, of course, Diamond Sutra or Mahaprajna Paramita Sutras is, of course, one source of Dogen's, you know, understanding or teaching.

[69:58]

So, he says, to doubt the walking of the mountains means that one does not yet know one's own walking. When we listen to Fuyodoka's teaching that mountains, blue mountains, are always walking, of course, we don't understand it. and we question it, and we doubt it. And he said, if we react in that way, he said, we don't really know our own walking, our own impermanence. We are trying to see things moving around us, and we don't see this is moving too. That is what he said in Genjo Koan.

[71:30]

And he said, it is not that one does not walk, but one does not yet know, has not made clear this walking. So, even though we are really walking, we don't see our walking. We don't really... how can I say... know, understand our own walking. But we... and yet we walk, actually. We are walking. And this is... I think this is an important point. To know or not to know is not important. In either case, we are walking. That is our practice. Whether we know it or whether we don't know it, we are actually walking.

[72:40]

That is more important. So we keep walking. Whether we understand it or not, sense it or not, is not the primary importance. But the most important point in our practice, as a practitioner, is to keep walking. And when we don't see, we don't know the walking of Mante, or walking of ourselves, our practice is kind of based on a trust, or faith, of teaching of our teachers, or faith in Dogen's teaching, or Shakyamuni Buddha's teaching, even though we don't see it, we don't know it, we believe... I don't like the word believe, but trust is a better word to me.

[73:42]

Trust what my teacher said, even though I don't really understand it. That was the condition when I started to practice. I knew nothing about Zen or Buddhism, but somehow I trusted my teacher's way of life, and I wanted to live like him. That's why I started to practice, and I could continue to practice. Now I think I have a certain understanding of what Dogen is saying, but 30 years ago I knew nothing. led Shobo Genzo, I didn't really understand at all. But still, this way of life, this practice, attracted me. You know, not because of my understanding, but because of, I don't know, again, what this is.

[74:50]

Maybe trust or faith or, I don't know, Do you have any better English word for this? Something like I was sucked into as a magnet. Driven. Driven. OK? Anyway, without such kind of... not the interaction, but something much deeper than... I don't know, than what? Compel. Yeah, something like that. There's no such thing. It's a kind of energy, almost energy. It's not a thinking. I'm reading a philosopher who said, the heart has reason that the wisdom cannot understand. And that feels to me like you are trying to say. What did I what? He said the heart has reason that the

[75:55]

Heart has reason. Yeah, maybe that's what I'm trying to say. Somehow, I don't know, but my life knows. I really don't know and I have a lot of doubt. I have many questions even about what Uttam Roshi is saying. But somehow, even though I'm struggling with my own doubts, questions, and many things, often, or sometimes, I had many good reasons not to practice. But somehow I couldn't stop it. It's not my willpower. You know, that's something much deeper than my personal willpower or intellectual understanding.

[77:00]

But somehow I couldn't sleep, stop. And sometimes I felt, you know, this is terrible. I want to do something different. But somehow I have to go to Zendo once. Please. So, I had this thought about walking. So walking is something that propels people, and so you don't think about walking, at least sometimes I don't. I start walking and I get to where I need to go, and I didn't even have to think about it. And it's actually a sort of a, there's a walking reflex that we're born with. If you hold up a small baby, its feet will walk forward. So I'm wondering why Dogen chose to walk. Why don't the mountains run forward, or roll forward, or propel?

[78:06]

I don't know. So maybe walking is something you don't have to think about. It just folds out of my head. Yeah, it's a very natural thing for us human beings, I think. We don't need much effort. When we started to walk when we were babies, it was a lot of work. It was a difficult thing to walk. It was almost a miracle when we watched our baby try to stand up and walk. And they did. It was really kind of like a miracle. But after that, walking was just ordinary things, the easiest thing for us. unless we are sick or handicapped. So, yeah, I think one of the meanings of walking is not something special. It's a very ordinary thing. Well, I think I have to go forward.

[79:10]

I have to walk. He said, those who would know their own walking must also know the walking of the Blue Mountains. If we really know our walking, our life is walking, moving, changing, then we can see the Blue Mountains are walking. So, he is asking us, urging us to really clearly see our own self. Then we can see the world outside of ourselves. And he said, the Blue Mountains are not sentient. They are not insentient.

[80:12]

Sentient is of jo. And sentient is ujo. In sentient is mujo. And jo means, what is jo? Sentiment. Sentiment, feeling, emotion. Being with or being which has sentiment is sentient beings. And being without jo or sentiment is insentient. Usually we think Mountain is insentient.

[81:20]

Mountain is not a sentient being. But he said, Mountain is neither sentient nor insentient. And not only Mountain, but he said, ourselves also neither sentient nor insentient. Then what? Is there something between sentient and insentient? No, not really. So that means our life, the reality of our life, connected with mountains, or mountains connected with each one of us, are both, in a sense, both sentient. Mountains include sentient beings. and sentient beings are included within mountains. So this one thing, one reality of self and the world is neither sentient nor insentient.

[82:32]

Or we could say both sentient and insentient. So our life includes both sentient beings and non-sentient beings. this entire thing. Please. Is there any significance to blue, to the Blue Mountains, why it's not green? Taigen said, Taigen Dunlayton said, mountain cannot be blue. It should be green. Yeah, we say blue mountains. Yeah, distant mountain looks blue. But it has no special meaning? I don't think so. But for example, for example, in Chuan-tsu, in the very beginning of Chuan-tsu, there's a big bird.

[83:44]

flying to the heaven, and see the Earth, said, the Earth is blue. But I don't think it has connected with this thing. And, you know, the first astronaut who went to space said, Earth is blue. So, the same thing was said more than 2,000 years ago in China. Well, what time? Wow, it's already 4.30. So, maybe I should stop here. So, what he is saying here is that mountains and ourselves one thing, connected. So we can say this is either sentient or insentient, or the self or the mountain. This entire or total function is both self and mountains, or like a sailor and a ship or a boat.

[84:56]

Well, thank you very much.

[85:05]

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