that atheists' faiths seem drawn to different angles. First, it is the faith which you have usually thought This faith has always its own object. That object is Dharma. Dharma is ultimate source of existence, or Dharma is the truth. Or, if you experience that the ultimate soul's personality is called liberation.

[01:02]

Liberation. That liberation, perfect liberation, is completely beyond idea of liberation or not liberation. That is, if you really experience these ultimate thoughts of existence through your body and mind, That Dharma is called liberation or emancipation. We say in Japanese, freedom. Just like swimming in the ocean, swimming in the ocean, freedom. So very naturally, in the book, The Awakening of Faith, it says there are four kinds of faith. First, it is the faith in the ultimate source.

[02:12]

From this point, faith is that which we have to return to the source anyway. continuing. We have to anyway seek, we have to see deeply into the ultimate self constantly. That is physically or mentally we try to do. That is It's called faith. That's why the awakening of faith says first. Anyway, the faith is to believe in the ultimate source. Because a man comes to meditate with joy on the dawn of the truth. The dawn of the truth means principle of the truth. Because truth is exactly perfect principle of existence for human beings, for all sentient beings.

[03:25]

That is truth. Or, that's actually thoughts. So, it says, a man comes to meditate with joy on this principle of truth. So joy doesn't mean the vulgar display of joy. But this joy must be based on true quality and unconditioned. Unconditioned means sometimes it is translated as unactivity. Unactivity is not perfect. So maybe unconditioned. That means unconditioned means a state of existence beyond human worldly affair or going beyond mundane world or not mundane world.

[04:30]

This is called unconditioned. This is called unconditioned world. So tranquility and the unconditioned must be based on joy from dhamma, from dhamma. So joy in this case, joy here must be human feelings. coming from continuous aspiration for experiencing the Dhamma to continue. And that time, joy comes up very naturally from bottom of your heart. That is called joy. Trungkari means if you believe this joy is uh just as something about you have a huge thought to see if there are six senses but at that time trauma quality becomes uh sort of something uh lonesome lonesome and also unconditioned becomes sort of unactive just because the

[05:54]

contaminated, no, not contaminated, what to say, stagnant water, just stagnant, no activity, no ariseness of human life when there is just stagnant water. It's not, it's not unconditional, so-called freedom, the unconditional water. conditional world, in the conditional world, there are, anyway, a likeness of life based on positive, spontaneous activity, and also very still, calm activities. So dynamism, dynamic activities in stillness still, tranquil activity in dynamism.

[06:56]

This is the state of the unconditioned world. So all sentient beings anyway are present in this realm, so called unconditioned. And that time you can feel joy. That joy is really coming from your heart. You don't understand. Your consciousness can't reach it. Why? From where it comes? You don't know. So that's why it says the faith is the faith in the ultimate source because a man comes to meditate with joy on the dharma of the truth. So very naturally, you can see the picture of the faith, what it is. Faith is anyway continually seeking for, anyway, experience at the seeking for the truth with your body and mind.

[08:08]

If you believe in this ultimate source, naturally next. You really want to experience it directly with your body and mind. But while the Dharma is present, separate from you, as an object of your faith, At that time, you are still dualistic. So faith is not dualistic. Faith is freedom, liberation. Faith must be completely digested. That is freedom, liberation. When you eat a meal, While mirrors are, anyway, while mirrors, what to say, can be seen, objectively, and it's not, you cannot be the flip-flop, the fool, okay?

[09:23]

Of course you can see the food objectively, you know, and then you really appreciate the food, looking at the food, you appreciate. But next, if you really believe in the food helping your life, you really want it, you really want to experience direction, that is the eat. That eat is so-called freedom, liberation from food. That means digest, perfect digestion. Food is digested until it becomes blood and then energy. But food becomes energy at that time. You are completely free, free from food. Just your body, just your life is enough. That is called the wasted mind, bodhicitta.

[10:26]

Bodhicitta. Faith and Bodhicitta. It's really effort. It's called effort. So effort is concrete manifestation, or to say, concrete manifestation of will in order to, or to say, in order to actualize and perceive freedom, liberation through your individual personality. That is an effort. The way seeking mind. If you believe in the thought, through your body and mind, very natural next, very want to experience. If you, at that time, you become free from dualism.

[11:31]

Dualism. So that is faith as bodhicitta. That's why Dogen Rin says, the whole, I don't know if this translation is right or wrong, the whole faith, look body is the faith, which is called faith. You understand? the whole thing look body, look body. It means your whole body is exactly fit. So at that time you cannot say your body is fit, you know. Or the faith is body, you cannot say so, because faith is completely digested with your body and mind. So where is the faith? You don't know. But just the body is here. But this body is not the body, the body is the faith, completely embraced by the faith.

[12:33]

The faith is digested. So your body is digested by the fish, so whole body becomes fish. Just like fish swimming in the water. What is the fish? Fish is not fresh. Swimming, the process of the swimming for the fish is fish? No. If we say it is fish, it is only idea, concept, conceptions, okay? The notion of the fish, which you make it stagnant, grasp the fish in your head and then say, fish. But the process of saving for the fish is exactly not fish. What? But you cannot say what, because fish is dead. So in order to express the real process of the swimming of the fish, we say, what looks like.

[13:38]

Looks like a fish. Looks like a fish is directly, manifestation is showing directly something that's true. That is called looks like. Looks like a karage. Looks like karage is a funny expression, but it looks like karage is a three-night, you know? Looks like. Looks like means exactly total watching process, okay? The fish, it's called swing. In that time, nothing to come down. So the way seeking my faith as a bodhicitta, so-called effort, that means is to do something with the one-pointedness.

[14:42]

That is the way seeking faith. That faith, when the faith is manifested, how can you know faith? You don't know. Actually, you don't know what faith is. Because faith is lucid and clear. Nothing to pin down, nothing to touch it. If so, faith is what? Faith is something you can believe in. Yes, it is, but when you believe in the faith, something, faith you believe in is already not lucid and clear. Real faith is completely lucid and clear. How do you know? That faith is present right in the middle of total process, okay? outdoing with the one-pointedness.

[15:47]

At that time, anyway, faith is this. But unfortunately, you don't know. Your consciousness cannot reach it. But exactly faith is. So very naturally, if you continue to do this with your wholeheartedness, taking care of your life like this, very naturally, your life is growing. Probably. Very natural. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether you believe in the Zen, which is useful or useless. It doesn't matter. I don't care. So if you think the Zen is good, useful, fine. It is naturally to be expected. If you believe the Zen is useless, Ah, that is very stupid. Oh, you are attending the workshop.

[16:52]

Workshop? Workshop is useful for you? You say yes. At that time, it is natural to be expected. But if you say workshop is useless, you are really foolish. So this is a very common life, you know, in your daily life, always looking at your doings, going back one step, you know, one step, and then looking at the workshop you are attending as an attender. And then evaluate it. Is this good? Or is this bad? If you always take care like this, oh, of course it is okay, but if you take care of life like this, it's very difficult to grow or to evolve or to be mature.

[18:00]

You always miss the chance to make your life mature. So important point is, of course, workshop must be useful. But this is, this is a kind of promise. Through the words, what we have to, what we have made a promise of faith. Walk your faith, it must be useful. It's through the words, language. That's why everybody comes and believes the walk your faith is useful. But practically, where you are, you are not right in the middle of a runway. You are in the middle of promise, what we have made through the language, okay? So even though you are studying hard and attending the Zen very hard and listening to the lectures, but still workshop is useful.

[19:06]

You work, you work. So finally, why you are here? So this is very current, okay? But faith is completely, faith is the human attitude and human state. When you become free from this, to ask excessive ideas, usefulness or uselessness, all of them, okay? But reality, you are right in the middle of reality. Reality, what you don't know. You cannot judge it. Then your effort is completely made right in the middle of, right in the middle between usefulness or uselessness. That is your effort, always. Don't you think?

[20:11]

Then by this effort, your life is supported, And your life is for morning, your life is deepened, your life is mature anyway. So that's why Dogen Zen says the whole body, the whole body is faith, is what is called faith. Whole body. That means faith, dharma, must be manifested in your daily life. Then when the dharma is digested with your body and mind, your life is anyway based on spiritual life. Complete. So in order to make effort moving toward the dharma,

[21:19]

There are two important conditions we have to take into account. One point is a self who believes in the Dharma is negated. Because the self, in the mutual sense, self is always a notion of the self who are always looking at the human life through the six senses. Six senses, six organs, six objects. That is called discrimination or thinking, judgment, evaluation, etc. This is very common life. Your daily life is exactly based on this common state of daily life. coming from my evaluations and judgments and the thinking, the feelings, etc., perceptions.

[22:27]

But faith is exactly lucid and clear and nothing to pin down and nothing to contaminate. If so, you cannot emphasize a self who believes in the faith. If you emphasize strongly that the ourselves who believes in the Dharma, at that time it is no longer Dharma because it is something contaminated. So all you have to do is Anyway, a self who believes in the Dharma is negated means if you believe in the Dharma, too, that's fine. Experience of your Dharma, too. Let it go. Anyway, let it go. Let it go means to digest it.

[23:34]

If you let it go, you cannot. For instance, if you are, I always tell the fishermen, the person who fish, they're selling the fish. So you are always in the fish market, okay? So your whole body, mind becomes fishy. Of course you know, you realize how fishy your body is. But when you continually there, you are, what would you say, your body and your senses becomes, what would you say, not, what would you say? Accustomed. You know, you become accustomed, and... Sanctuary? You know, kind of sickness and numbness of your body.

[24:43]

Paralyzed. Your body and mind becomes paralyzed. You know pretty well intellectually, ah, fishy smell always, but you're paralyzed. So from this point, you are not freaked out by smell, fishy smell. So if you want to be free from fishy smell, anyway, get out from the fish market. And then at that time, who tells how fishy you are? You should tell to yourself, no way. That is your ideas. So all you have to do is just to get out. And then somebody tells you. Somebody tells that somebody is completely out in the salt. Somebody tells you how fishy you are. That is real meaning of the fishy smell, okay? So if you experience the face, the dharma, which is called truth or freedom, liberation, or whatever it is, joy, happiness, enlightenment, whatever, you must be anyway free from.

[26:03]

Get out from that. Let it go. That's why Dogen Zen says, if you let it go, your hand is filled. Why do you take hold of something in your hand you miss? You cannot hold it because everything is impermanent. So anyway, if you want to have something anywhere from your heart, anywhere, let it go. Particularly spiritual life. You have to let it go. Later I will explain more about this point. Dogen then says in Bentoa, you can read question number, question seven. And it's the answer. He's He explained this. It's a really interesting sentence, a few sentences there.

[27:08]

So our practice is not your practice or practice is Buddha practice. That's called subtle practice. We say subtle practice or wondrous practice. You don't know. You don't know this practice. It's really mysterious, mystical, okay? But it works. It's not mystical. It works actually. So that is called wondrous practice. And then he says, you should let go of wondrous practice. At that time, original enlightenment is kept in your hands. Original enlightenment means the active self, the faith, or truth. Anyway, close up, open it, open its own door. Very natural. But usually, if I emphasize the subtle one-plus practice in what you can be, you can become Buddha, right now, right here.

[28:20]

When you do that, even for a moment, at that time, you really take hold of it. This is all what I want. Oh, hang on. At that time, it's very hard to realize the wondrous practice as it really is. So that's why the worrying conditions you have to take into account is a self who believes in the Dharma Must be negated. Must be free. Anyway, let it go. This is one first important condition. In order to make your faith alive in your daily life, free from dualistic sense.

[29:23]

But usually faith is understood in a dualistic sense. But it's not good enough. The second, it is real dharma, real truth. The door of the real truth is to open spontaneously where you are at the unfathomable depth of self-centeredness. At the unfathomable depth of the self-centeredness, egolessness. So through and through, if you, I told you anyway, I told you anyway, if you attain that, if you experience something wonderful, wonderful experience, anyway, you have to let it go. And then if you let it go, you say, I let it go.

[30:27]

Ah, I'm wonderful. But you should let it go too. And then next moment you say, I let it go a second time. You should let it go a second time. Then you say, I get it. Then you should let it go a third. So continue, you have to let it go. This is called freedom, don't you think? This is freedom. This is a reality. The ultimate source of reality, your present land. Your effort is always used. Your effort is always made right in the middle of the ultimate source of reality. This is your practice, your reality. This reality, the ultimate source of reality, is completely lucid and clear.

[31:29]

You don't know, your interactive sense cannot reach, but it's very mysterious, wondrous, curious. That's why you are continually, you can see. Your life is very curious. For instance, capability. Do you know your capability? How much do you understand your own capabilities? Ability, whatever, okay? You always judge your capability, abilities through your knowledge, what you have learned at the university and at the school or in the society or by the information coming from the others. Your capability is this much. And then you believe it. But the real capability is we don't know. Don't you think? You know?

[32:36]

So even though people say your capability is this much, and you believe, but when you take care of your life, wherever, in whatever realms, whatever occupation you follow, if you really do your best to take care of your occupation, That way naturally you can see wondrous capability which you have never seen before. So capability just like a spring water coming from the bottom of the ground. Haven't you experienced this one? It's really true. So that's why even the people say your capability is this much, but you believe, but in other words, you don't believe it. Because you have to survive.

[33:39]

You have to survive in the absolute realm of your passions. And also still you believe consciously or unconsciously your capability is very mysterious. You cannot pin down what it is. How much do you understand capability? Something curious, very curious, very mysterious. That's why you can continually make effort, do your best to manifest yourself using your capability. Don't you think so? Well, I graduated from University studying Buddhism. At that time, I really believed I became a master of the Buddhist teaching, particularly psychological. It's wrong. It was exactly wrong. At that time, I believed my capability was huge.

[34:51]

When I came to the United States, I believed my capability was shrinking. I finally disappeared. I was very confused and I felt sad. I didn't know what to do. But every day students comes to the so-called temples to listen to my stupid talk. How can I stop it? Cognizant always came to listen to my talk always. So how can I stop it? I can't stop it anyway. So still, I believe in my capability, limitation of my capability, but I am running in the middle of reality. I can't be done. Should I depend on my capability or shouldn't I? No way. All I have to do is, I don't know exactly what is my capability, but my effort was completely made right in the middle of reality.

[35:58]

mysterious situation of realities no one knows. And then I have still survived. That's wonderful, isn't it? So this is a depth of the absolute egolessness. The door of the truth is open spontaneously. When being at the really unfathomable depth of absolute continuous egolessness, self-centeredness, let it go, let it go, anyway, learn to do your best, do your best to do something with your wantonness, wholeheartedness, and then let it go. Then do it again, let it go, do it again, always. So be natural. Even though you don't get any ideas, any knowledge, your life becomes mature.

[37:03]

Maturity is important for us, isn't it? Maturity is important. It's not necessary for you to become a sharp. I don't know what to say. Smart. I am not smart. I'm not sharp. I'm really dumb. But right in the middle of darkness, I can learn the human life. So I can see the deep image of maturity in my life. That's wonderful. So even though you don't know science, even though you don't know the biology, you don't know the psychology, it doesn't matter. Day by day. All you have to do is make your life mature. How do you do it? This is a faith. The way seeking mind, effort.

[38:05]

So, these are the two conditions. This is very important. At that time, you really become, experience anyway faith as a bodhicitta, the way seeking mind in your daily living. As you know, Kriwa, in Buddhism, there is important teaching, so-called ego-lessness, self-lessness, and also dependent co-originations. Do you know what dependent co-origination is? Dependent co-origination is that all sentient beings are All sentient beings are present by means of conditioned environment, conscious conditioned environment.

[39:13]

So this is important, the so-called dependent co-origination and also egresses. These two are very important to Buddhist teaching. So maybe you can think three points, three things. If you look at yourself and the human world, there are three important points which you take into account. First point is the presence of the I. Presence of the I as a subject surrounded by others and all sentient beings.

[40:18]

Because in Buddhism, in Buddhism we believe like this. We don't believe that the world exists first and then we become, we are born in this world. So world comes first. And then we are born in this world. But Buddhism don't believe in that way. If you are born, then the world comes up. But that world is your world. So, whatever you can see, perceive, feel, all are something fabricated by you.

[41:27]

So human world, universe is you all of universe, you of universe. But if I look at the world, the world becomes mine. So my world. So my world there, so whatever I look at, they all are anyway belonging to my world. My world. So, not only America, not only San Francisco, or Japan, or Israel, and the PLO, anyway, and the refugees, and whatever it is, all becomes my world. How do I know? PLO. I know a little bit something about PLO through the magazines, you know? But I don't know exactly. I cannot go to the sea.

[42:32]

Anyway, live long. Anyway, so I don't know. But anyway, live long. Be alone. Israel. Anyway, belong to my world. So, if I am blind in this world, then my world, my world. If it is true. This is the first point, first point. So always Buddhism says all in one, one in all. In Buddhism, if you use the all, the all, all things must be, must be that which are perfectly related with you. At that time, All things are what is called all things.

[43:32]

When related with you, we cannot say all things. The only way all things are related with you, that is called all things. So I, my personal existence is in all. All things are present in one, in ma, in me. So if you read the Abbasan Sutra and whatever the ten sutras, obviously they emphasize in this point. So first point, anyway, your presence, there is your presence surrounded by all sentient beings, okay? So you can look at the huge world, That is all yours. And then how the people are connected. Connected with you.

[44:39]

If world is mine, why is it that I have to take care of the people? Why is it that I have to help the people? So, second point. People, all students exist. And trees, birds exist. Where? In my world. In my world. So in my world, so you are, or everybody are not real everybody. You are not real you. You are belonging to me. So in my world. So Robata is not a real Robata. So Robata is a temporal provisional being because I am looking at the Robata. So Robata is not a real Robata.

[45:41]

Robata is Robata fabricated by me. So Robata, Robata, Robata. So Robata, where is Robata? Robata is in my world. Do you understand? That's why I have to take care of it. Do you understand it? The Buddha is not a completely different person from me. The Buddha is in my world. Everybody, table, and Japan, PLO, poor people, all are in my world. That's why if you listen to a certain situation of people who are suffering from it, naturally you want to help because they are belonging to in your world. So if you look at your world, if you look at the world, the world is yours, okay? Not mine. So where's the karagiri?

[46:42]

Karagiri is your world. So at that time, I can't always say, you know, call you, I am Zen teachers. I cannot say so. Because I am in your world. I must be you. I must be friendly with you. So I have to walk with you hand in hand. You understand that? It's helping mutualize each other and walking hand in hand. from century after century. This is very nice. And then very naturally among this relationship, we can create compassion, friendliness, and kindness. Not coming from the heaven, anyway. Compassion, love, total love. A very among from the people.

[47:46]

So that's why the world is mine. But anyway, second point is all sentient beings exist in my world. So all sentient beings are what? Provisional beings. We say provisional because I am looking at. Do you understand? And then the third point. Third point Those two, you surrounded by all sentient beings and also others' existence, others' presence in you, in my world, are connected dynamically, interconnected, interdependent dynamically. That is the third situation, third point.

[48:49]

That is your reality. That is my reality. So according to the first point, I say my world. So I really hang on to my world because I look at everything. I understand the Zen, I understand Christianity, I understand PLO, but through my head, But you cannot always, I cannot always say, I understand PLO, I understand Buddhism, I understand Christianity. I cannot say so. Because study of the Buddhism, study of the human life is endless. So I cannot now, I have to let it go. Because my understanding is connected with others. who are existent in my world, if so, I have to listen to anyway others' views.

[49:59]

And I have to be good prisoners to the people. So very naturally, I have to let it go of my world. And then help others. According to the second point, I always say, I want to help you. I want to help you. I want to help you. And then if I help somebody, I really feel good. But I cannot stop doing that. Why do I want to help you? Because I want to be a good boy. So to help others means a certain situation connected with my eagerness. I want to be a good boy. So very naturally I cannot take hold of on this second point. So where am I? I am exactly in the third situation.

[51:06]

The second, first, and second, which are first and second are interconnected into the second. So in the middle of the third situation, so-called the dependent co-origination, who I am? Why do I live? Why do I have to exist? What? I don't know. I want to help. in order to help human or sentient beings. That's why there is a reason why I exist. Still this is ideal. How much can you help? Just a little bit. So reason why you exist is nothing can stop.

[52:10]

Because your individual presence doesn't make sense. Your individual presence comes into existence when it is completely interrelated, interconnected with others and all sentient beings. At that time, your presence is very valuable. So what did you put? Your presence is in the first situation or second situation. No. Your presence in the reality is in the third situation. That is called dependent co-origination. So that's why faith is lucid and clear means you cannot bring down. Strictly speaking, in the ultimate source of reality, you're present in always a situation connected with all sentient beings.

[53:21]

Nothing to take hold of something with your ideas. So finally, you don't know. So according to your six kinds of nettles, you say, it's fake. And then you say, it makes me confused. I don't think it makes you confused. Strictly speaking, it makes you free constantly. So that is called Ego-less-ness, that very ego-less-ness is important for us. Why is it that we have to experience ego-less-ness, practice ego-less-ness constantly? Because that is a quality, a virtuous quality of the ultimate self.

[54:25]

or emptiness and the truth. What is the virtuous quality of the truth is, anyway, the real reality which is lucid and clear, which your consciousness cannot reach. But you, your effort is made always then. That's why it is something wondrous and mysterious and curious. That's why wherever you are, you are constantly to make an effort to do something, to do something. If you can pin down what the reality is, real reality is, there is no curiosity, no wonderfulness.

[55:28]

So there is no development. That's why if you always take care of your life, but through your knowledge and consciousness, your life becomes very cold. and very neat, but not deep. Not what you are. But if you did kill your life anyway, doing your best with wholeheartedness right in the middle of real reality which is lucid and clear which your consciousness cannot reach that time your life becomes mature constant day by day that is the growth of your life the deep of your life depth of your life then Someday you can get a big shark, but at that time it is called enlightenment.

[56:40]

Big shark or small shark, a medium-sized shark, whatever kind of shark, you can get a shark. Just slowly, shark penetrates slowly at that time. The shock immediately goes, penetrates you, your body and mind, sometimes. It depends on the individual. That is called enlightenment. If you experience enlightenment, let it go. Because you must be in the realm of real enlightenment, so-called freedom, liberation. I have a question. In the Passion of Paramita it says to depend on, to believe in the teaching of dependent co-origination is for pratyakaya buddhists.

[57:44]

And it says... Shouldn't we try to be bodhisattvas? Shouldn't we go beyond dependent origination? Well, you said we find ourselves in a third situation where we should depend on co-origination. Wouldn't that be the level of... If you become a bodhisattva in any way, let it go, the bodhisattva you have reached, then that time it is called your bodhisattva. I think I understand how you Well, freedom must be understood in terms of a third-situational means.

[58:47]

That's why I don't understand. That's why you don't understand. Well, I don't understand. You don't understand. In the third situation, I mentioned... I don't understand what freedom is. What is freedom? Because the dependents of origination, they really help in the mutual. It's disregarding emotions, you know. That sounds to me like a . That is the situation of human life in terms of your . Well, make it deep more, okay? Rashi, why is there a need for effort in discovering There's no reason, no particular reason. Because you cannot escape from it.

[60:07]

You need. No, but completely, you need or you don't need. Yeah. I'm kind of stuck. I realize how you need it, but the other part of me said that you really don't. You're trapped in it. You're trapped in it. people are trapped in concept play. You see them and you have a concept or idea of what they are, but you don't really know what they are. At one time they see it as not taking any effort, as just kind of giving up your preconception. Giving up your preconceptions? Yeah. That, that you understand that it's a... Yeah, you put it in your head, you know, like, uh, like, who you, you know, who you think was party leader, things like that.

[61:17]

I just... You can't give up thinking because you're already thinking, constantly thinking. You cannot. So if you want to be free from any way of thinking, you have to think with the wholeheartedness anyway. That's all. You don't know. It is when you think, how to think, that thinking is the free from thinking or not thinking. It's not necessarily to thinking that way. That's what I mean. Oh, it's not no effort, effort. But you need effort, but effort must be anyway digested with your body and mind. If you see why you see the effort objectively, that is called effort, the notion of effort.

[62:22]

But you cannot do it in that way. Effort is constantly penetrating with your body and mind. So freedom means anyway thinking nothing to give up, nothing to give up anyway. You have to continually and taking care of thinking with all heartedness. And then at that time you think, thinking with wholeheartedness means to be free from the thinking or to be not thinking. You're thinking that way. This is already thinking, an illusion. That is a characteristic of consciousness, constantly thinking. In one sense you're... In fact, it's terrible.

[63:26]

You don't really think. If you are in the middle, if you really understand, then there's no thinking. There's not like the difference between you and what reality is. That's in the middle of that. Well, important point is not discussing in that way. Point is, no thinking is, what is it? Practical. No thinking must be alive in your life, okay? What is it? No thinking about the ruba. What do you mean? What do you mean?

[64:28]

So, next. Anyway, it is a matter of time. The discussion, never talking about it. If you're talking about, well, just take the Diamond Sutra. Bodhisattva is, our bodhisattvas are bodhisattvas. But bodhisattvas are not bodhisattvas. That's why bodhisattvas, this is real bodhisattvas. That is current, we can say that. Endlessly. Because you human beings are very smart, you know. Thinking kind of thing. have you ever experienced enlightenment and the truth?" And the Zen master says, yeah, no, it's clear, but how do you know? The Zen master says, I don't know. So the monk says, if you don't know, how do you know that enlightenment is existent?

[65:36]

You know, constantly like this. So they must have said, you are smart. That's enough. So finally, you have a practice anyway. That practice is a process. No thinking of what the robot means anyway. Take care of the robot. Because your body is in my world and your world. What about when you have despair with a method? You're not sure if you're growing, becoming more mature. and not sure if the practice that you're doing is the one suitable for your growth.

[66:49]

So when is the point where you say, well, I'm going to go chant rather than meditate or do zazen? Or is there some way to gauge if your despair is part of your growth or if your despair is being stuck? Do you understand? It's a question. Despair? Despair about being stuck, not growing? Well, despair is also part of the growing. Right. In terms of the method, the process, how does one know when to change or to use a different process? Different process of what? Of practice. Different process of practice. Chanting was the same. Right. How do you change? When you know to change.

[67:52]

For that matter. Let's say he's been doing yoga maybe for a couple of years, and he feels a lot of despair. Does that mean maybe he should try Zazen, or does that just mean he'll keep on with the yoga? Oh, I see. That's right. How do you know? Well, it comes up naturally when you come to the today. So, try and find a solution. So if you want to, if you don't want, that's all right. Maybe you have to hit your forehead, left toe once or twice. And then you can make it turn, you know, to the different course, different way.

[68:56]

Maybe so. Maybe if you try, I don't know. It depends on the infection. In my case, I don't know how often I hit my forehead. If you're still lucky, how often you have yet your way and get in the box. You've turned up the two points to making faith alive. The second one I didn't quite understand. You said the door of the truth opens when paintings play on it. Then you said some more.

[69:57]

I didn't understand. I'm part of the depth of absolute self-centeredness. You are. So that means to continue. You should let it go. Let it go. Continually letting it go. Let it go, yeah. Open yourself. And then when you let it go, let it go is simultaneously door of Dharma opens. Exactly. You shouldn't misunderstand. After letting go and then the door of the Dharma opens. I don't think so. Simultaneously. So the door of the Dharma opens spontaneously. It is something you cannot see. So what you can do is just to let it go. That time there is opportunity, great opportunity to let the Dharma open.

[71:05]

When you were trying to bury the question, you took the angle of freedom from freedom from changing. Is it possible to talk to the lady's question about like freedom from in the third one, it depends on where you're free from. For freedom, if we explain that freedom, well, according to Buddhist teaching, it is called dependent co-origination. But practically, dependent co-origination must be found in your actual practice, actual daily life. So this is, that means where you are, where you are. You are in the realm of two situations.

[72:44]

First situation, second situation means two excessive ideas. I exist or others exist. from this point. First situation I mentioned, I exist. I exist surrounded by all sentient beings. So whole world is mine. Mine. And that second situation is all sentient beings exist. But they are provisional beings because they are exist, they exist in my world. So they are just the beings in terms of my viewpoint So they are not within real being. So provisional being. So we cannot attach to both provisional being or my idea, my existence, my presence. Okay? So I cannot attach to either one of them.

[73:47]

Because third situation means the third situation points out to the reality where you are present constantly, day by day. That is reality with the character of R, OK? Real reality. That is the third situation. Third situation. That means your presence in reality is supported by many countless number of conditional elements. So who I am? I existed in reality by myself or by others? No. Well, anyway, dependent coordination is my body and mind. It's exactly dependent coordination. So it means, anyway, reality. The body and the mind is alive in the real reality, which is lucid and clear, because nothing took him down, I or others.

[74:57]

So I, others, also should be, anyway, helping each other, just like this. This is my presence in the reality. It's really dynamic. That is called freedom. Freedom. So one is free from either excessive you. One is free from me, free from others too. Nevertheless, we are connected free from me, free from others, but we are, I am, I, I am related with all sentient beings. Okay? But we wouldn't get stuck there. Perfect. Go.

[76:22]

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