I vow to face the truth and love to target just words. Good evening. Good evening. I think that when the door is closed, the voice stays more inside the room. But I hope all of your shoes are safe. So it's a toss-up whether she'll leave the door open or not. Well, tonight's class will be the first one on the so-called Platform Sutra of the Sixth Zen Ancestor, Daikon Eno, or Huineng. or Hui Long, he has many names, the master of Cao Chi, but I like, somehow I'm used to calling him Hui Nung, so I will, but sometimes I'll call him something else.

[01:16]

This sutra, as we know, the sutras came from India, because Shakyamuni Buddha was born in India, taught in India. The sutras are supposed to be the word of Buddha. And, of course, none of the sutras started to appear in print. until about three or four hundred years after Buddha walked on, passed on. So we know that whatever the sutras contain is from word of mouth and oral traditions. Actually, in India, oral traditions were very refined And people would spend their careers memorizing long sutras.

[02:28]

And so a lot of traditions were preserved through memorization. And even today, there are people in India who memorized long, long treatises, especially the Vedas. They know the Vedas by heart. They just rattle them off for ceremonies and so forth. So there is a lot of Buddhist tradition which was memorized. And of course, in the course of time, there are also errors and diversions and additions and subtractions. So what we get is a kind of idea about Buddha's message. But Buddha could never have possibly put into words so much.

[03:35]

And so we have an enormous amount of literature attributed to Buddha. And so when this literature started coming into China, there was quite a lot of literature coming into China. And a lot of it was contradictory and coming from many schools, different schools, which had interpreted Buddha's message in different ways. So And a lot of the sutras, a number of sutras, were actually formulated in China. So many scholars tried to separate the Indian sutras from the Chinese sutras, because the Chinese sutras said that they were from India. And so there's always some

[04:40]

effort to find what was authentic and what was not. Of course, none of it is authentic. It's all tales. But a lot of people like to be accurate. They like to investigate facts. And facts in history are very few. And when we do find the facts in history, they don't really add up to much. But they do satisfy some kind of longing for authenticity. And I think that's good. Because a tale is always based on something. So the tale of Buddha's life is based on something, on Buddha's life, but it's a tale.

[05:50]

And we may think, well, these tales are inaccurate. But actually, the tale is more meaningful than the facts. The facts don't mean so much. What means something is the way the tale expresses the truth. So we're always making up tales to express the truth. Fairy tales express the truth, if you read them correctly, if you know how to read them. Of course, they're based on a little bit of fact, but the facts are not important. What's important is the truth that's conveyed through the tale. So when we read the sutras and the Buddhist literature, it all sounds a little fantastical.

[06:53]

Usually it sounds a little fantastical. Is that a good word? Fantastic. Fantastical. But when we start to read, we realize that there's some truth and reality that's being conveyed through this process. So in China, there's one sutra which is considered to be a Chinese sutra. And this is the Platform Sutra. Because the Chinese Buddhists, when Chang or Zen in China, began to become prominent, the Chinese Buddhists paid a lot of attention to this sutra.

[08:01]

And because the sixth ancestor was considered an original Buddha, like Shakyamuni in India, the words from his mouth were considered the words appropriate to be called a sutra. So, you know, Bodhidharma brought the Chan teaching from India to China, and then it was developed by the first six ancestors who chant their names every morning. And Daikan Eno is the sixth, Konin is the fifth, Doshin is the fourth, Senzan is the third, and Eka is the second, and Bodhidharma is the first.

[09:06]

Let's go backwards. And then from the sixth ancestor, all the other, the Golden Age of Zen begins in the Tang Dynasty in China. And the Soto lineage traces their, the Soto school traces their lineage through Seigen, who is a disciple of the Sixth Virtue Heart. And the Rinzai side also traces their lineage. through Nangaku, Angel. But there were other schools and other disciples. But these are the two that have lasted to this day. So, the Platform Sutra is a text which

[10:08]

of which there are many versions. One of the most original versions was done in the 8th century and was not so long. It was built around the autobiography of the 6th patriarch. and an ordination ceremony, basically. And then it was expanded. Most of the sutras that we have started out as a small tale, with a small nucleus of information. And through the centuries, people added things to it and expounded on it until the sutra grows. So it's very interesting to watch the development of a sutra, Buddha's teachings. The Prajnaparamita sutras originally were not so big, but through the centuries they were added to and commented on and pretty soon the literature grows and grows, which some people think that that's

[11:35]

a not-so-good, because it's not original. Because people think that there's something that originates from the founder that's original. And we try to look for that little thing, you know, what was original Buddhism? And that any addition or building on it is a kind of desecration. But I feel it's just the other way around. that the teaching of Buddhism is a kind of additive process, and every generation or every age adds something to it, and comments on this germ, this small beginning of a text, and adds their understanding to it. And so, fortunately, Buddhism is not yet finished.

[12:44]

And we're all taking part in its development. And we will all continue to take part in its development forever, hopefully. I think some religions, some religious feeling is that, and even in Buddhism, this is true, that the founder said this and that and he shouldn't deviate from these words. But if we don't deviate from the words, we get stuck in the words. Words are somebody's memory, and memory is, although memory can be good, as I said before, it's also very faulty. And sometimes the words can lead us astray, and then someone else has to say, wait a minute, and bring it back.

[13:51]

And this happens, happened a lot in the history of Buddhism, that people started going astray, thinking that it's supposed to be like this, and then somebody else brings it back. Wait a minute, it's not like that. Look at this. So we have different schools of Buddhism which balance each other out. And this school starts to go off in this direction, and this other school goes, wait a minute, what about this? So fortunately, we have that kind of practice, that kind of way of study in Buddhism. And in India, there were the 18 schools. There actually were more, but we count 18 that we know about. And these schools were always conversing with each other and arguing with each other and had different views from each other. But this is how Buddhism developed through this kind of association and different views being compared and refined.

[14:58]

So, the Platform Sutra started out as probably an autobiography, which is in doubt, actually, and an ordination ceremony. That's the platform, maybe. Or the platform could be the teaching seat, probably the teaching seat. But in China, they had an ordination platform, which was very beautiful and elaborate, where they did ordinations. And then gradually, the sutra became more and more embellished. And it's more than twice as long as what's considered original. So the version that we're going to study,

[16:01]

is called the Ming version, the most embellished version which was completed in the Ming dynasty around the 16th century, I think. And we will study, we have our eight classes And after the practice period is over, I think we'll continue studying it until it's over, until we're finished. I don't know how long that will take. It's not a very long sutra, but there's a lot there to be discussed. And as we go through it, we'll be able to see the development of thought, of Zen thought in China. from the 6th century, 7th century until around the 16th century.

[17:13]

So it's very interesting in that way. So what I'm going to do is not talk about it so much anymore and start to read it. It starts out with the autobiography. I don't know how many people have their copies, but probably enough. You can luck out with each other if you don't have. My copy is an old one that I like to use, because it has so many notes in it, but I never switch to the other one. But this one that Ross has, which was later corrected by Christmas Humphreys. He took this sutra, this translation is by Huang Mulan. It's the first translation, I think, into English.

[18:20]

And yours is also by Huang Mulan. It's the same translation, but it was corrected The language was corrected by Christmas Sun Priest. And the pages are a little bit different than mine. So we have to check with each other to see if we're on the right pages as we go along. So chapter one. Turn to chapter one. Books being available for those of us. All right. See you next week. They may be in tomorrow. Does that one have the Diamond Sutra also?

[19:50]

Yes. So you get two for one. Two for the price of one. Seven bucks a piece, that's pretty good. Well, Ross is getting me a glass of water, so I'm going to wait until he gets back. So what tradition is the one that you... Is it the same as yours? I was going to say, this is just a different size format. Oh, that's the latest printed. This is 69. That was done in 69? Well, it has all these forwards, and the last forward is the 1969 edition by Joe Miller. Joe Miller? Yeah. Joe Miller. Joe Miller was a very interesting guy.

[20:57]

He died a couple of years ago. He was like San Francisco Bodhisattva. He was into all this stuff 30, 40 years ago when everybody else was completely oblivious of it. And he was a wonderful person. I never did meet him, but he was just a little bit older than me. I just want to say, I guess, there are other versions. But I won't talk about the other versions, because I don't want to get into the thing. I'll do that as time goes on. So this is called the sutra spoken by the sixth patriarch. We'll call him the patriarch. On the high seat of the treasure of the law. This is around 820. when this sutra was first printed. And the sixth ancestor was born in 638, the year 638.

[22:01]

That was a long time ago. So, once, when the patriarch had arrived at Paola Monastery, Prefect Y of Xiuqiao and other officials went there to ask him to deliver public lectures on Buddhism in the hall of the Taifan Temple in the city of Canton. In due course, they were assembled in the lecture hall, Prefect Y, government officials, and Confucian scholars, about 30 each, and bhikkhus, bhikkhunis, Taoists, and laypeople, to the number of about 1,000. After the ancestor had taken his seat, the congregation in Abadi paid him homage and asked him to preach on the fundamental laws of Buddhism, whereupon his holiness delivered the following address.

[23:04]

Learned audience, our essence of mind is literally self-nature. Our essence of mind or self-nature, which is the seed or kernel of enlightenment, bodhi, is pure by nature and by making use of this mind alone we can reach Buddhahood directly. So this is the essence of his teaching. And then he starts to talk about something else. Now let me tell you something about my own life and how I came into possession of the esoteric teaching of the Dhyana or the Zen school. My father was a native of Fanyang. No, I'm sorry. My father, a native of Fanyang, was dismissed in 640 from his official post and banished to be a commoner in Sunqiao in Guangdong. I was unlucky in that my father died when I was very young, leaving my mother poor and miserable.

[24:08]

We moved to Guangqiao, which is called Canton, and were then in a very bad circumstances. So 24 years later, didn't say that, but 24 years later when he was 24, I was selling firewood in the market one day when one of my customers ordered some to be brought to his shop. Upon delivery, being made and payment received, I left the shop, outside of which I found a man reciting a sutra. As soon as I heard the text of this sutra, my mind at once became enlightened. Thereupon I asked the man the name of the book he was reciting, and he told me that it was the Diamond Sutra, the Vajracchedika, or Diamond Cutter.

[25:13]

I further inquired from whence he came and why he recited this particular sutra. He replied that he came from Dung San Monastery in the Wong Mui district of Kee Chau. That the abbot in charge of this temple was Wong Yung. We usually say Hung Chau. or daimon konin in Japanese. The fifth patriarch, that there were about 1,000 disciples studying with him, and that when he went there to pay homage to the patriarch, he attended lectures on this sutra, the Diamond Sutra. He further told me that His Holiness used to encourage the laity as well as the monks to recite this scripture as by doing so they might realize their own essence of mind and thereby reach Buddhahood directly.

[26:21]

I think that the reason that this version is printed with the Diamond Sutra is because the Diamond Sutra is purported to be the sutra that the sixth ancestor was enlightened by, or, you know, asked people to study. So in this edition that you have, they're both printed together. Is the teaching of Diamond Sutra parallel? What sutras and what? Does the Diamond Sutra, does the teaching of Diamond Sutra kind of, or does the Platform Sutra echo some of the Diamond Sutra teachings? Yeah, the Platform Sutra echoes some of the Diamond Sutra teachings. Somewhere, I think one version says that when he sold his firewood and he came out and this person was reciting the Diamond Sutra and he was enlightened on hearing the words, you should produce a thought which is nowhere supported.

[27:24]

which is a line from the Diamond Sutra. You should produce a thought which is no less important, and that's echoed through this Platform Sutra. So it must be due to my good karma in past lives that I heard about this, and that I was given ten bucks Ten tiles, I don't know what, that's not Chinese money, that's Dutch money. Ten tails for the maintenance of my mother by a man who advised me to go to Wong Mui to interview the fifth patriarch. So this man said, you should go, I'll give you some money to help you take care of your poor mother. After arrangements had been made for her, I left for Hoang Mui, which took me less than 30 days to reach.

[28:39]

Walking. I then went to pay homage to the fifth patriarch and was asked where I came from and what I expected to get from him. I replied, I am a commoner from Sun Chau of Quang That's in the south of China. In these days, in those days, the north was considered the cultured part of China, and the south was considered the uncultured part of China. Canton was down in the lower part, and it's near to Southeast Asia. And that's where Kwanlong is from, right?

[29:48]

And actually, he's visited this Sixth Ancestors Temple. and knows that whole area very well. So, part of this dialogue has to do with the North and the South. So, I replied, I am a commoner from Sunchao, Guangdong. I have traveled far to pay you respect and ask for nothing but Buddhahood. You are a native of Guangdong, a barbarian? How can you expect to be a Buddha? Ask the patriarch. I replied, although there are northern people and southern people, north and south make no difference to Buddha nature. A barbarian is different from your holiness physically, maybe, but there is no difference in our Buddha nature.

[30:56]

He was going to speak further to me, but the presence of other disciples made him stop short. He then ordered me to join the assembly to work. I don't know what your book says. Does it say crowd? So he sees something in this young guy, this young barbarian, but he doesn't want to argue or discuss it with all these people around. So he says, go to work with these people. Dogen, in his fascicle on busho, Buddha nature, takes up this particular dialogue and presents it in a wonderful way, actually a little different way.

[32:02]

I don't want to go into that now, but I'll come back to that later, after we get into the sutra more. give something of Dogen's presentation on what this is about. It's a very different feeling, actually. It's very eye-opening. So then he says, may I tell your holiness that Prajna often arises in my mind. When one does not go astray from one's own essence of mind, one may be called to feel the merits. I do not know what work your holiness would ask me to do." This is a later edition. This barbarian is too bright.

[33:04]

Go to the stable and speak no more. I think what he means by stable is go to the workplace. I then withdrew myself to the backyard and was told by a lay brother to split firewood and pound rice. So Sixth Ancestor's work is famous for pounding rice for eight months. This is often brought up as the kind of selfless work he did of just pounding rice, without expecting anything. More than eight months later, the patriarch saw me one day and said, I know your knowledge of Buddhism is very sound, but I have to refrain from speaking to you, lest evildoers should do you harm. Do you understand? Yes, sir, I do," I replied, to avoid people taking notice of me.

[34:09]

I dare not go near your hall. So he stayed in the background for eight months without even going up to the Buddha hall or the Zen door. Well, I thought that that was because of possible jealousy, but I was wondering today if it was also some kind of racism or prejudice. Oh, well, that could be part of it. people being prejudiced against Southerners. Also, didn't Dogen have a hard time when he went to China? First time? How? Something about... A foreigner. As a foreigner, something about his place in the assembly or getting a place in the Tan or being... Yeah, Dogen did have that problem. When he went to China, actually, Regine was going to give him a place at the head of the town.

[35:10]

He said, wait a minute, people will not like that if you do that because I'm just a foreigner and they'll be prejudiced against me. So please give me a different seat. Yeah, that's true. But that could happen anywhere. Yes? Patriarch, right? He's not yet the 6th Patriarch. But I don't understand the 5th Patriarch's words here. Should this be a good translation? Which words? When you're a native of Guangdong, a barbarian, how can you expect to be a Buddha? Or to... Yeah, to be a Buddha. That doesn't sound like something that would come from It's true, it doesn't sound like something that would. But, you have to realize his intent.

[36:13]

He's not saying that he isn't. He's challenging his understanding. Right? He's not saying, how could you? You understand what I mean? He's not saying, you're not, you can't do that. He's saying, how do you expect to do that? somebody who is, you know... to eat insects and stuff like that. So really, really uncivilized people. And he's going out of his way to make his point to be extremely giving to it.

[37:20]

Isn't this a challenge? I mean, this is the challenge. It's the, you know, it's that kind of thing. Lots of stories. I see it both ways. He is going out of his way to make you mean. Or not to be mean, but to... And it is a challenge to him. But I think it's a challenge because, well this is very And yet, I think the minute that he walked in, he read it. And you know, if one of us had walked in, he probably would have been very gentle and kind. Maybe not.

[38:25]

in, he knew that it was somebody who had some understanding and he was going to, he wanted to see it right now. So he was really turning the switch to them. We don't know. It sort of reminds me, I think perhaps, of the checking questions that are used in MENSA. If somebody comes in and says, well, I'm not good at it, it's, OK, let's hear you talk about it. Well, yeah, that's a good point, too. Later on, there's the next paragraph that makes the remark that there's a need to see clearly and talk about it at any time and at any circumstance as it can be tripped up. Just to play that advocate for a moment, unlike me, I was actually recently reading an editorial written by by somebody in a Buddhist magazine about skillful means and sometimes there are wrathful bodhisattvas and they say things that push our buttons and blah blah blah.

[39:41]

Gave some examples and I think that's true. And I also think sometimes teachers say stupid things. You know, because they're people. So, in this case, it seems to me that it was a challenge. I think it's always good to bear that in mind. People do say stupid things, but it probably wouldn't be in the tale. The other thing is that we have this idea about how we think the teachers are supposed to behave. And it's based on our own cultural context, which might have nothing to do with the cultural context of a place like this. And so in America, we think everybody is supposed to be really blissful and kind and everything. And maybe teachers don't act like this. And there's a purpose to it, which we may misinterpret. Well, also, as we go on in the next few paragraphs, you will see that he's trying to protect

[40:48]

This fifth patriarch is trying to protect him from the jealous people and the angry people and so forth. So people say, well, what kind of Zen students are those? The Zen students are not supposed to be jealous and angry and blah, blah, blah. And we know when people come to a Zen center, after a while they say, gee, these are just ordinary people. as if, you know, everyone was supposed to be enlightened and act, you know, enlightened. But the fact is that... I won't say. It makes a better story this way, too, because it's a better story as the fifth ancestor is he doesn't practice.

[42:08]

He doesn't sit zazen. He goes out and comes right. Whereas today, what I'm used to seeing is he'll come out and sit zazen. Now comes the rest. It seems like it's quite a bit different. What put you in the kitchen during sashimi next time? Well, the fact that he puts him out there in the monastery There are laborers, people who work. In those days, people took care of the monastery. They hired people to take care of the monastery. Although they did work in the kitchen and so forth, but there were workers who kept the monastery up. They did a lot of the labor, actually. So he was kind of out there with those people. He couldn't even come back into the monastery, much less to Zazen, whatever they did. We don't know exactly what they did. The Patriarch one day assembled all of his disciples and said to them, the question of incessant rebirth is a momentous one.

[43:34]

Day after day, instead of trying to free yourselves from this bitter sea of life and death, you seem to go after tainted merits only. That is, worldly merits, getting something. yet merits will be of no help if your essence of mind is obscured. Go and seek for prajna in your own mind and then write me a stanza or a gatha about it. The one who understands what the essence of mind is will be given the robe, that is the insignia of the patriarchal, and the dharma, the teaching, the esoteric teaching of the dhyana school. and I shall make him the sixth ancestor." So he's saying, go and think about this and then present to me a stanza which expresses your understanding.

[44:44]

And the one who has the highest understanding will receive the robe and the bowl from me. So go away quickly. Don't delay in writing the stanza, as deliberation is quite unnecessary and of no use." Either you get it or you don't, is what he's saying. The one who has realized the essence of mind can speak of it at once, as soon as he has spoken to about it, and cannot lose sight of it, even when engaged in a battle. Having received this instruction, the disciples withdrew and said to one another, It's no use for us to concentrate our mind to write this stanza and submit it to His Holiness, since the patriarchate is bound to be won by xin xiao, which is here. We usually say xin xiu. But this is translated in Cantonese. Usually you say Mandarin. Right. That would be xin xiu.

[45:45]

our instructor. So Hsinchu was the head monk of the assembly and he was older than most of them and a learned monk. And they all looked up to him. Meanwhile, Hsinchu reasoned thus with himself, considering that I am their teacher, None of them will take part in the competition. I wonder whether I should write a stanza and submit it to His Holiness. If I do not, how can the patriarch know how deep or superficial my knowledge is? Getting to Dharma. A very difficult point to decide in deep. In front of the patriarch's hall, there were three corridors, the walls of which were painted by a court artist named Bo Chun. with pictures from the Lankavatara Sutra depicting the transfiguration of the assembly and with scenes showing the genealogy of the five patriarchs for the information and veneration of the public.

[47:00]

I'm sorry, they weren't to be painted. They weren't painted yet. So the artist is there ready to do this work, right? The Lankavatara Sutra was the sutra that was brought according to the legend, by Bodhidharma. And he said to his students, we should read the Lankavatara Sutra. I think Bodhidharma's version of the Lankavatara Sutra was in four chapters, whereas the later Lankavatara Sutra is much longer, many pieces put together. depicting the transfiguration of the assembly. Lanka means Sri Lanka, Sri Lanka. And it was supposed to be the sutra that the Buddha taught in Lanka, but Lanka has a different meaning also.

[48:09]

a kind of spiritual Lanka, like the Buddha is entering into a spiritual Lanka with the assembly in a kind of enlightened state. So these two pictures, one, the Buddha and his disciples entering the spiritual state of Lanka and the genealogy of the Five Ancestors in China. When Hsinchu had composed his stanza, he made several attempts to submit it to the patriarch. So he went home and made one up. But as soon as he went near the hall, his mind was so perturbed that he sweated and burst out in perspiration all over. He could not screw up courage to submit it, although in the course of four days he made altogether 13 attempts to do so.

[49:17]

This is a later edition. Then he suggested to himself, it would be better for me to write it on the wall of the corridor and let the patriarch see it for himself. If he approves of it, I shall come and pay homage and tell him that it was done by me. But if he disapproves of it, then I shall have wasted several years in this mountain in receiving homage from others which I by no means deserve. In that case, what progress have I made in learning Buddhism? At 12 o'clock that night, midnight, he went secretly with a lamp to write the stanza on the wall, on the wall of the South Corridor, so that the patriarch might know what spiritual insight he had attained. And the stanza read, Our body is the boat

[50:22]

and our mind is a mirror bright. Carefully we wipe them hour by hour and let no dust alight." Wang Mulan puts it into this poetic form, rhyming form, which I like a lot. Most of the other translations don't make it rhyme like that. As soon as he had written it, he left at once for his room. So nobody knew what he had done. In his room, he again pondered, when the patriarch sees my stanza tomorrow and is pleased with it, I shall be ready for the dharma. But if he says that it is badly done, it will mean that I am unfit for the dharma. Owing to the misdeeds in previous lives, which thickly recloud my mind. Poor guy. Really getting down on himself. It is difficult to know what the patriarch will say about it. In this vein, he kept on thinking until dawn as he could neither sleep nor sit at ease.

[51:28]

But the patriarch knew already that Hsinchu had not entered the door of enlightenment and that he had not known the essence of mind. See, this Platform Sutra was probably written by disciples of the sixth ancestor after he was no longer around. And it's a kind of political, written in a political way, to disparage Hsien Shao and promote Wei Nung. There's a kind of narrative problem here, if you start to consider it. How did Wei Nung know what he was thinking? How did Wei Nung know? But in his autobiography... No, this is... He didn't... This is the fifth page here.

[52:31]

No. No. No, this is Wei Dong's autobiography where he's telling the story of... He's putting this interior monologue. It doesn't exactly... Right, of course. ...so lack of versatility. I don't know, it also seems really human to me. It's a good story. But after something has happened, you can know what happened. You can see me sweating. Well, anyway, if we know that this page I did not write this autobiography, So it's a kind of autobiography, but also kind of... It's told to him. It's told to him.

[53:33]

My autobiography is told to him. It's such a pleasure. Chen Xu later found some other order? Yeah, he founded the Northern School. And so this is, you know, in the Sun Dukai, is about that there's no patriarch of North or South. And so it's a commentary kind of on the enmity between Southern and Northern branches trying to, or actually the Southern branch promoting itself at the expense of the Northern branch. when they were competing with their own Sixth Patriarch and Seventh Patriarch up north, and there was a political upheaval.

[54:42]

They were doing that. And one of the Sixth Patriarch's younger students, who was by this time in his 80s, made a public denouncement of the Sixth, of Shen Hsiao and his school, and kind of turned the public toward the southern school. Who did then? Who did then? Shen Hui. We haven't come to him yet. And this is the so-called southern school. The southern school, right? What? The southern school, the so-called southern school. Southern school, yeah. And the northern school is the so-called graduate school. Right, right. The northern school was called the gradual, and the southern school was called the seventh grade. But that's also a little bit political, because there's sudden gradual in both schools.

[55:54]

But I don't want to get into that yet. So in the morning, he sent for the fifth ancestor. sent for Mr. Lowe, who was the court artist, and went with him to the South Corridor to have the walls there painted with pictures. They were going off to take a look at the wall. And by chance, he saw this stanza. And he said, I'm sorry to have troubled you to come so far, he said to the artist. the walls need not be painted now. As the sutra says, all forms or phenomena are transient and elusive. That's kind of an excuse. Because when the stanza was put on the wall, he decided, let's not paint the pictures. And so he's saying, all painted forms are It doesn't say so here.

[57:04]

But it does say so somewhere else. What was the significance of sending the artist home? Well, because there was no need to paint the pictures anymore. Why? Because the stanza was there instead. He didn't want to erase it. In other words, he said, there's no need to do this. Let's just leave the stanza. But the stanza didn't make the grade. Oh, it didn't make the grade. It's true, but he couldn't say that. and says, come here, you should recite this and learn this. So he's actually promoting the stanza. So he says, it will be better to leave the stanza here so that people may study it and recite it.

[58:15]

So we'll have the stanza instead of the pictures. If they put his teaching into actual practice, they will be saved from the misery of being born in these evil realms of existence. evil Gatis, which are hell realms, animal realms, the six realms, actually, the five realms. The human realm, left out. The hungry ghosts. Like Gati. So, the hell realms, the hungry ghost realm, the fighting demon realms, the animal realm, the heavenly realm.

[59:20]

Is that an evil realm? Is that considered an evil realm? Heavenly realm? Well, it's not as evil as the rest, but the problem with it is the rest aren't evil. It says evil. Evil is just a translation of a word, right? So, stuck room, right? He then ordered incense to be burned. So he says, the merit gained by one who practices this stanza will be great indeed. It's just true. It's not a bad stanza. There's nothing wrong with it. Then he then ordered incense to be burned and all his disciples to pay homage to it and to recite it so that they might realize the essence of mind. After they had recited it, all of them exclaimed, well done.

[60:24]

At midnight, the patriarch sent for Hsien Chau to come to the hall and ask him whether the stanza was written by him or not. It was, sir, replied Hsien Chau. I dare not be so vain as to expect to get the patriarchate, but I wish your holiness would kindly tell me whether my stanza shows the least ring of wisdom. Your stanza, replied the Patriarch, shows that you have not yet realized the essence of mind. So far you have reached the door of enlightenment, but you have not yet entered it. To seek for supreme enlightenment with such an understanding as yours can hardly be successful. To attain supreme enlightenment, one must be able to know spontaneously one's own nature, or essence of mind, which is neither created nor can it be annihilated. from kshana to kshana, which is a moment to moment, momentary sensations. One should be able to realize the essence of mind all the time. All things will then be free from restraint.

[61:29]

In other words, everything will be emancipated when you realize your essence of mind. Once the tatata, the tagata, the tattata, which is our suchness, another name for essence of mind, is known, one will be free from delusion forever. And in all circumstances, one's mind will be in a state of thusness. Such a state of mind is absolute truth. If you can see things in such a frame of mind, you will have known the essence of mind, which is supreme enlightenment. You'd better go back and think it over again for a couple of days, and then submit me another stanza. If your stanza shows that you have entered the door of enlightenment, I will transmit you the robe and the dharma." Shen Chao made obedience to the patriarch and left. For several days, he tried in vain to write another stanza. This upset his mind so much that he was as ill at ease as if he were in a nightmare, and he could find comfort neither in sitting nor in walking.

[62:34]

Two days after, it happened that a young boy who was passing by the room where I was pounding rice recited loudly the stanza written by Hsinchu As soon as I heard it, I knew at once that the composer of it had not yet realized the essence of mind. For although I had not been taught about it at that time, I already had a general idea of it. What stanza is this? I asked the boy. You barbarian, he replied. Don't you know about it? The patriarch told his disciples that the question of incessant rebirth was a momentous one. that those who wish to inherit his robe and dharma should write him a stanza and that one who had an understanding of the essence of mind would get them and be made the sixth patriarch. Elder Hsinchou wrote this formless stanza on the wall of the South Corridor and the patriarch told us to recite it.

[63:41]

He also said that those who put his teaching into actual practice would attain great merit and be saved from the misery of being born in the evil realms of existence. I told the boy that I wished to recite this stanza, too, so that I might have an affinity with his teaching in future life. I told him that although I had been pounding rice there for eight months, I had never been to the hall, and that he would have to show me where the stanza was to enable me to make obeisance to it. The boy took me there, and I asked him to read it to me as I am illiterate. A petty officer of the Kong Chow district named Chang Tat-Yung, who happened to be there, read it out to me. When he had finished reading, I told him that I also had composed a stanza and asked him to write it for me. Extraordinary indeed, he exclaimed, that you also can compose a stanza. Don't despise the beginners, said I. If you are a seeker of supreme enlightenment, you should know that the lowest class may have the sharpest wit, while the highest may be in want of intelligence.

[64:45]

If you slight others, you commit a very great sin. Later on, he has a whole gatha on this subject. Dictate your stanza, said he. I'll take it down for you. But don't forget to deliver me if you see fit. My stanza read, there is no Bodhi tree, nor stand of a mirror bright. Since all is void, where can the dust alight? So this is a very famous poem. There's some question as to whether it's a very good one or not. So on the one hand, Xin Chao is saying that there is this Bodhi tree and that there is a mirror and that our practice is to wipe the body and mind clean from moment to moment.

[65:59]

Don't let any defilements arise on it, settle on it. Don't let any dust settle on the body and mind. which is very, you know, usual, kind of understandable. It's about practice, right? It's a practice. Xinqiao is, you know, up to this time, up to the time of the sixth ancestor and the development of Zen in its early stages, there's still this Indian influence, Indian Buddhist influence. And when it comes to Huineng, his understanding is coming from his essence of mind.

[67:12]

It's not a learned understanding. The idea that he's illiterate, for one thing, and that he's only heard one thing, right, from the Diamond Sutra, and he was already enlightened. So this one thing connected him with his essence of mind. This one statement from the Diamond Sutra that he heard when he was 24 stimulated his enlightenment. So what he says is coming from his original, it's original with him. Whereas what's coming from Shen Xiao is wonderful, but it's not original. It's still influenced. And so with Hui Neng, Zen takes on a different character of being Chinese.

[68:13]

Chinese practice. In other words, it's not that the Indian influence is gone, but a new age is introduced with Huineng, where this is Chinese Buddhism. And that's why he's considered the Buddha, because of his original way of understanding. Which is not different from Buddha, but it's not learned understanding, it's his own original understanding. So, there is no Bodhi tree, it's complete, sweeping away everything. And that there is no Bodhi tree is also consistent with this line in the Diamond Sutra, which is, produce a thought which is nowhere supported.

[69:30]

produce a thought which is nowhere supporting me. There's not an inch of ground to stand on. Whatever it is that we that we clutch at for security is not there. In other words, there's nothing to depend on. There is no Bodhi tree. There is no stand of a bright mirror. Since all is void, where can the dust settle? There's no place for anything to settle. So this world, in this world, there's no place to settle. But we look for places to settle, you know. But it's all momentary. So there's really no place that's completely secure. And we're looking for security. People are always looking for security. one way or another.

[70:40]

So, he's saying that the only security is in your self-nature. You must find your self-nature in order to find your security. But it's also a kind of koan, because you can't grasp your self-nature. In part of this, there's that talk about being reborn in different realms. Yeah. And also, there's some of that in the Diamond Sutra. And then in the Diamond Sutra, it says, but really, that's all kind of metaphorical, because really, there isn't any such thing as rebirth, because there isn't any self, there's nothing to be reborn. And why do they keep using this term about These terms about being reborn in different realms and stream-enterers and all that, I feel like there isn't.

[71:48]

I mean, it's kind of confusing. Yes, very confusing. It's very confusing. Rebirth is caused by karma. It's not that... There is rebirth, but there's nobody that's reborn. Okay? What we do is confuse somebody with rebirth. We confuse rebirth with thinking that there's somebody that's reborn. There is rebirth, but there's nobody that's reborn. The understanding of Buddhism is that there's no self. even though there is phenomena that continue to have form, shape, and color. So there is rebirth, but there's not some body that's reborn.

[72:54]

As a matter of fact, there is birth, but there's no one who is born. that there is some connection between what's reborn and what went before, but it's not a self. That's what you're saying, it's just a constellation of circumstances that produces a different result. Yeah. But, it doesn't, you know, that's a kind of reductionist way of thinking, because it reduces everything to dharmas. And that's a very Buddhist way of thinking, on the one side. On the other side, on the other hand, there's a very personal feeling of myself. So, we have to be, you know, it's not so easy to just fall into one side or the other.

[74:00]

I mean, it is easy to fall into one side or the other, and we have to be careful not to do that. The sutra will say empty phenomena are just rolling along, just dharmas. It's just dharmas that are rolling along, and there's no self that is in them. On the other hand, we feel that there's a self, right? We all have this personal view. When we die, we say, but what will happen to myself? Right? So, it's hard to let go of ourself. Very hard to let go of ourself because we have this feeling, but we have to. The reason why is because there is no self. So we have, what we let go of is this idea. That's all.

[75:02]

Once we let go of the idea, It's no longer a problem. But the problem is this idea that we hang on to, and we all have it. But every single person that's born has to do that, has to go through that door of letting go of it. But then, you know, we speculate, well, maybe I will be born in heaven, you know. That's nice. That means we don't have to let go. Yeah. Who perceives? Who sees? Who hears? Who tastes? Seeing sees.

[76:04]

Hearing hears. You know. Something or else. Thinking things. Coordinating coordinates. All you have to do is leave out I. When you go about your daily life and talk and think, just don't ever say I and see how you can express yourself. See how you can express what's happening. without saying, I. It's wonderful, you can do it. It's possible, but we're so used to saying, I this and I that, that we keep reinforcing this, I, I. But just think in terms of seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, thinking. And try doing that. And seeing, let seeing see.

[77:08]

Let hearing hear. Let breathing breathe. It's wondrous. I beg your pardon? It is wondrous. Who's saying that? Barbara. It is wondrous and wonderful. Yeah, when we can let go of this I, it's wondrous. That's wondrous. Going back to the original question about these realms that are talked about, I was wondering if they were talking about these realms, because this is an earlier point in Buddhism, and the Theravada school believes more in these different realms and stream-enterers. Well, the four entries, that's different. These are the circle of life, the circle of transmigration.

[78:10]

The Tibetan, you know, has Yama sitting up there on the wheel. But even Theravada has different realms. Yeah, well there are different realms. There are hells and heavens and realms. But there are, you know, different schools have different... Right, well this is like you said, the Indian period came up to the sixth ancestor. influence on the teaching. Yeah, it is. It's not that the Indian teaching should not be influencing, but, you know, we have influences from... I don't know what your point is, actually. You don't know what my point is? That in the Indian period, that maybe they believed more in other realms. Oh, I see. Oh, I see, yeah. And then the teaching started to change later, after the successes. I see, I mean literally. Yeah, Indians believe, have always believed in reincarnation, rebirth.

[79:14]

But I think what, you're talking about the belief in reincarnation and rebirth. In the different realms. Right. So there are different ways to look at that. Some people who want to believe in reincarnation can see it as being reincarnated as a, you know, fighting demon or a hungry ghost. But these are actually metaphors for our, you know, And each moment we're in a different world according to our disposition. So when we're angry, we become a fighting demon. Could be. And when we have so much desire that can't be satisfied, we become a hungry ghost. And when we lose our humanity and just start acting from instinct, we become an animal. So we have all these qualities and we can transmigrate through the six worlds in one day.

[80:31]

So we're always, you know, it's a kind of metaphor for our changing dispositions. But if you like to believe in reincarnation, you can look at it literally. People can believe, I don't know, people believe different things, right? Rebirth isn't necessarily reincarnation. Reincarnation means, to me, that you reincarnate. But rebirth means that the influence of your actions or your karma influence some future existence. Because action is not lost, or the energy is not lost. The energy contributes to some other You know, in Tibetan Buddhism, they say that lamas are reincarnated, and they're tested to see whether it's actually the same person, and so forth.

[81:35]

So it seems to have some belief in some level. So the Tibetans are way over on this side of reincarnation. And I think that the Japanese are way over on this side, using it more as a metaphor for how things continue. It seems like only some people can actually choose their rebirth in the Tibetan system. I want to understand this idea of no-self. When the young woman asked about, is there a perception without a perceiver, and you started speaking, I realized, yes, there are receptors in my eye that can see. But then, I interpret what I see. And that is the eye. That is, well, you can say, yeah, interpretation is, you can say, I am interpreting, but you can also say, there is interpretation.

[82:47]

Okay, but the interpretation goes, it's like, it's coming from, I mean, to interpret something has to always be from the past. Yeah, that's right. You can only interpret from the known, right? So it has to be from past memories. Yes. And it has to be from past experiences. Right. So there seems as though that would be the basis for forming something that at least approximates to itself. Yes. Yeah. Right? Yes. So can you speak about where is that coming from? Is it just that What is it that causes it? Psychological survival, that's right. We make up a story. We're always interpreting.

[83:48]

So it's really hard to see things exactly the way they are. Because interpretation is partiality. Interpretation is what? Partiality. And it's also discrimination. So when we say, you know, who am I? Our tendency is to separate ourselves or isolate ourselves from everything else in order to study who am I, right? But actually, when we do that, we start, we discriminate and make things partial. And then we put together a story according to our memory, so to speak, and our views. So all of this is what we call self, or ego. Is there no such thing as psychological security, or is that just doesn't even come into the picture?

[84:56]

I mean, there was physical security. I can conceive of that in nature as man and therefore I better run or whatever. And there could be that physical security. But that's just an illusion. Because there is no physical security. Because even though the tiger is running after, even though we escape from the tiger, something's eating us from inside. Right, so that's what I'm asking. There is no security. Except momentarily. Physical or psychological, you're saying? For a little while, it's psychological, yes. Security as we know it, mostly, is psychological. Because, ultimately, we're just passing. And there's no permanent security.

[85:58]

And so we secure ourself as best we can. And then we give ourselves a story. I'm okay. Everything's okay. there's going to be a big earthquake that's really going to be devastating to Berkeley within the next 30 years. And we know this. But, you know, we go about our business, right? And we tell ourselves a story or we forget about it in order to have, if we think about it a lot, then we get nervous and anxious, right? And we can make ourselves very anxious. So, somehow we have to figure out how to be at ease knowing that there's impending doom. But even if there wasn't going to be an earthquake, there's still impending doom.

[87:02]

There's impending doom for everybody. Every single one of us is impending. So how do we feel secure about that? That's what religion is about, right? Science doesn't help. So what do we depend on? He says, depend on your self-nature. Otherwise, you keep transmigrating through these various realms, which take you over. The more angry you get, the more angry you get. And so you transmigrate through the realm, you stay in the realm of the angry fighting demons, or the hungry ghosts. Let go of all that and depend on self-nature, be it just a human being.

[88:06]

How do you be just a true human being without getting caught by the demons of your mind? Well, we're spiritual humans. Human spirits. Spirit, you know. See, there we are dividing, you know, between spirit and human, or mind and body. As soon as we start talking, we start dividing. That's called discrimination. So discrimination, it talks a lot about discrimination, discriminating mind and attachment.

[89:19]

Yes? So can we go back and just, what is, I mean you asked the question, can we live as human beings, what is the human being then? That's the question. You are a human being. But you are a human being with attachments We need to be attached to things. But a human being is an expression of the whole universe.

[90:25]

Yes? His advice would be, wherever you are, be there completely. And then, next moment, be there completely. And then the next moment, be there completely. Don't stick to anything. Don't stick to anything. What is there to stick to? What is there to stick to? Don't stick to anything. But wherever you are, be there completely. Shenshu is not wrong. He's not wrong.

[91:37]

So Huidong is talking more about the way things are. And Shenshu is talking about what you do. These are actually complementary stanzas. And a lot of people divide them. And that's what the 6th and the 5th, that's what this whole controversy was between the Northern and the Southern schools, was, you know, it was very divisive. But actually, both stanzas are very good. As the 5th patriarch said, this is really a very good stanza. Then when he was talking to Shen Chao, he said, but it's not enough. So, Hui Deng added the part that was missing. I heard a statement earlier, I want to understand the idea of no-self.

[92:45]

And it seems to me that one of the places I get stuck is the idea that it's an idea. It's not an idea. No, that's right. So I can't tell you what that is. You have to discover it for yourself.

[93:01]

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