I, God, teach the truths of God to talk of just words. Good morning. Last weekend, we had a three-day Sachine, and on the last day, which was not a public lecture, I talked about this case koan, the Blue Cliff Record, Obaku's slurper, dregs. And I want to continue talking about this koan.

[01:01]

which is a koan about how a teacher teaches and how students study. So I'll talk about it in a little different way than I did last week, for the benefit of those who were here last week. And the koan goes like this. It's called Obaku's, well, you know, the title is different according to who translates it, but Dreg's Slurper's pretty good. It means that after the brew is made with grain, there's the stuff left over. And people drink or eat the stuff left over

[02:06]

and think that they've had the real brew. So it's kind of like you get a little bit of information or you study the words of the old masters and you think that you understand what's going on. So that's called It's a very famous or well-used phrase in the Tang Dynasty in China for students who traveled around a lot looking for getting a little bit here and a little bit there and making a kind of patchwork quilt of Dharma words and putting it all together in a little ball and taking it out of their pocket when they want to show their understanding. This is called drinking the dregs.

[03:09]

So Master Engo introduces the subject and he says, the Buddha's supreme resources or power is wholly within his grasp. He's talking about the teacher, All the souls and all the spirits of heaven and earth are under his command, meaning he is completely in control of himself and his world without trying to control anything. Even his casual words and sayings amaze the masses and arouse the crowds. So he doesn't have to do anything special. Matter of fact, he doesn't go out of his way to do anything special. but sometimes he surprises everybody with his words and his actions. His every gesture and action remove the sufferer's chains and knock off their stocks, kangs.

[04:21]

In other words, whatever he does is In all of his actions, he's able to put people at ease or be a catalyst for realization. The teacher is a kind of catalyst for realization, but cannot give you anything. This is a very important point here. If a transcendent person appears, the Buddha meets that person with the transcendent principle. Who can ever be like this? If you want to understand the secret, then listen to the following. The main subject. Master Obaku. Obaku was Huang Po in Chinese.

[05:26]

And he was a student of Hyakujo and the teacher of Rinzai. So he holds a very prominent position in Zen, Chinese Zen. Obaku addressed the assembly and said, you are all slurpers of brewer's grain, of the dregs. If you go on wandering about like you do, Where will you ever settle the matter? Do you know that in all the land of Tong there is no Zen teacher?" Then a monk came forward and said, but surely there are those who teach disciples and preside over assemblies. What about that? What about those people? Aren't they teachers?

[06:29]

Hombaku said, I do not say there is no Zen. but that there is no Zen teacher." So this is kind of a koan. Then Setso has a verse, and he says, commanding is his way of teaching, but he made it no point of merit. Seated majestically over the whole land, he distinguished the dragon from the snake, Emperor Taichu once encountered him and thrice, three times, fell into his clutches. So, in Obaku's time, monks would wander around. In all the history of Chan and China, the monks would wander from one place to another, listening to one teacher and trying to find a good teacher. And there was a tradition of this.

[07:34]

But Obakwu is talking about, as I said, people who are monks and students who continually wander around, never really settling down. In other words, always wanting to get something from outside and not really settling the matter for themselves. Zen is not a matter of gaining knowledge. It's a matter of more like taking everything away from you. So this is very difficult. When we go someplace for something, we usually want to get something. That's normal. When we go to the store, we want to get a bag full of groceries. When we go to school, We want to get some knowledge.

[08:37]

But when we come to Zen Center, we may also want something. But practice at Zen Center is to let go of everything. So main point is to take everything away. But I won't keep it. I don't want it either. But to present yourself, to see yourself, to actualize yourself in your true personality, true person. Who is the true person? So this is what Obok was getting at. And we forget this. We easily forget this. after a number of years of practice. He said, well, I've been doing this for a long time and I'm not getting anything.

[09:44]

This always comes up with everybody. I'm not getting anything. What's going on here? I'm not getting anything. That's very good. But it's hard because we always want something. So in Buddhist practice, the main obstacle is the obstacle of desire. the obstacle of wanting. Wanting is the key element. Buddha says life is suffering, to put it simply. Why? Because of our desire. Those are the two fundamental things about Buddhism. Life is suffering. Why? Because of desire. Because of wanting. And of course, well, who doesn't want?

[10:47]

So life itself is the koan of ours. That's what we study. That's what a koan is about. It's about wanting and not wanting. It's about grasping and rejecting. It's about not accepting ourself And it's about creating a self over our self. Who is this self? What is this life? What is this death? What's really going on here? What is there to protect? And what's being built up? And where did I lose my innocence? So wanting is always there.

[11:58]

But it's important to want. It's necessary to want. Without wanting, we die. So desire is important. What should we desire in order to be straight? In order to be truthful and correct? That's the point. How do we direct our desire? So everyone's looking for a way. When we're little kids, we say, what do you want to be when you grow up? Well, you know, a fireman or housewife or something, lawyer. doctor. But that's just, those careers are important. But it would be interesting for someone to say, well, I just want to be me. I think often we force children into some kind of way of thinking, you know, about what we should be, and we ignore me.

[13:11]

or we ignore who we really are. But even within that, we have to find ourself. So each one of us has a different destiny, different circumstances. And within that set of circumstances, we have to find ourself. So life itself, the place where we are, is also our place of our school. Wherever you find yourself, That's your school. And then we come to the Zen Center as a kind of school, you know. It's also our school. If you practice at the Zen Center, learning to let go or allowing yourself to let go of what's not necessary, then it's easier to see your life situation is your school.

[14:12]

That's your zendo. And the people around you are your teachers. But we don't see it that way. It's very hard to see it that way because we get so emotionally attached to what happens to us. Somebody speaks angrily at us and we get angry back. So we lose it. It's very hard to stay calm and centered when somebody's insulting you. Very hard. So when we can practice letting go, then it's easier to be centered. and to, as Master Ingo says here, command the whole world.

[15:15]

That's what he means by commanding the whole world. It means not being turned around by the world, not allowing yourself to be pushed around by emotion or thought. It doesn't mean not to have emotion or not to have thought, but it means to always be at the center of the universe. When you're out on the periphery, you get pushed off, pushed off the end of the branch. So Zen practice is to be at the root, stay with the root. And then you can also play in the leaves. But if you play in the leaves and branches without being rooted, So he says, there is, I didn't say there's no Zen, I just said there's no Zen teacher.

[16:22]

What is a Zen teacher? What does this Zen teacher do? Well, my experience with Zen teachers is that a Zen teacher is just being themselves, a person who is just being themselves. Which doesn't mean... I've heard Zen teachers who were not acting so well, saying, well, I'm just being myself. And you have to accept that. That's not being yourself. That's not just being yourself. It doesn't mean that whatever you do is okay. Sometimes Zen teachers are very good. Sometimes Zen teachers are very bad. And you should be able to see the difference. As a student, you should be able to see the difference. If you put a Zen teacher up on a pedestal and say, oh, Zen teacher, you're so wonderful, you can never do anything wrong, you'd be in for a big surprise.

[17:33]

So a student should be able to see what's good and what's not good and have some discernment. Teacher is a guide for students. Sometimes, when I first became, when I opened with Suzuki Roshi to Zendo 1967, I said, I'm just going to sit zazen every day. I will sit zazen every day. If someone comes, that's fine. That's great. We'll sit together. If no one comes, I'll just stay here. So my intention, or my vow, was not to gain a lot of students, but just to sit zazen. And by sitting zazen, to open up the possibility for other people to practice.

[18:42]

And that's always been my intention, and it hasn't changed. So I think for a teacher to not be too ambitious is very good. But just to open up the possibility of practice and realization for others, but not to go out and grab people off the street, just to be present for everybody. So a teacher sometimes has to give a talk like this, you know, and Zen practice is practice. If you want Zen, you have to practice. That's all there is to it. That's really all I need to say, but I'll talk some more. So talking is important and necessary because it helps to orient our mind.

[20:05]

It helps to orient our intention. So we should study and we should read. I was at a teacher's conference a few months ago, and I gave a little presentation. And I said something like, when Shakyamuni Buddha was around, People just practiced with him. And then after he died, the students brought together people who were his students and systematized his teaching. And it was an oral teaching for a long time. And then after about 400 years, it became a written down. So for a long time it was just oral teaching, but it became systematized. But it wasn't a real system in Buddha's time. So when the teacher is no longer there, then the students have some need to create a kind of system or a way of study, because the teacher is not there.

[21:17]

But from time to time, teachers are always present. When Suzuki Roshi, my teacher, was kind of like our Buddha. And we didn't do very much study when he was around. We just practiced with him. Then after he died, we started to create a study center. And we started teaching, you know, in an academic way. Not entirely, but as an adjunct to practice. So this is important, you know, for people to understand Buddhism. That's important. But it still does not substitute for practice. And practice means to sit zazen in a regular way and associate with the teacher and other students.

[22:24]

People say, well, I sit zazen at home. That's good, but it's not the same as associating with the other students and the teacher. It's not the same at all. In Shakyamuni's time, people practiced together. It's a little different tradition. They were also wandering monks, but they also came together and practiced together. and supported each other and learned from each other. Much better than learning from books is to learn from association with the students. Students together, when you practice together with other students, you learn through your pores. You get something which is non-verbal and non-intellectual.

[23:25]

Intellect is fine, It's a secondary way of learning for Zen practice. The primary way is through putting your body-mind on the spot, directly perceiving. It's fine to come to a lecture once a week or something. That's very good, but eventually you should If you really want to understand, you should sit on a cushion. This Saturday morning practice is a wonderful opportunity to practice in a concentrated way. Not just sitting zazen, but eating together, working together, and interacting with each other.

[24:30]

This is a little taste of practice, a little taste of thorough practice, which is very important. Working together is different than your ordinary work. Ordinarily, when you go to work and at the end of the time you get a paycheck, at the end of the month you get a paycheck, But this is different than that. This is working together in order to practice. So that's very important. Those are sitting zazen, working together, associating with the teacher, having some kind of association with either the main teacher or some of the other teachers, and study. and to have a regular rhythm of practice.

[25:36]

When you want to practice, you should decide how practice, how sitting practice harmonizes with the rest of your life. Can I sit in the afternoon? Can I sit in the morning? What's my schedule? What are my obligations? and to figure out, with all your obligations, how you can actually integrate a sitting practice with your life. And then you check in with your teacher to find out if your practice is on track, if you're doing the right thing. So even though there are no Zen teachers, That doesn't mean there are no Zen teachers. But what it does mean is that you are the main teacher for yourself.

[26:40]

Whatever you learn or do, you do it yourself, with the help of everybody. So even if you have a teacher, Unless you really put yourself on the line, put yourself wholeheartedly into practice, it doesn't mean anything. The teacher's only there to help you do something yourself. So when you read the stories about the teachers and the students, you know, sometimes the teacher takes a stick and hits the student over the head, you know, or slaps the student. Sometimes the student slaps the teacher. Don't do this. But it's like, get off your ass. Do something. It's like, this is real. Stop dreaming. Let go of that da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

[27:45]

And just, boom, just do. Thinking is fine. Nothing wrong with it. But it's secondary. And after, when we immerse ourselves in practice, then we think about it later. And thinking helps us to understand what we've been doing. But if we start thinking ahead, if we start getting an idea about what is enlightenment, what is realization, blah blah, your idea is always off and is a hindrance. That's why practice is real. Practice is real, whether it's good or bad, is irrelevant. There's nothing like a wonderful bad student. One who can never do anything right, but it's always there.

[28:51]

I know some really good, wonderful students who can never do anything right, but they're always there, always making this effort. God, why can't I do this? It's great. I'm like that myself. So as Master Dogen says, it has nothing to do with being brilliant or being stupid or being good or bad or right or wrong. It's a matter of just doing it. The hardest place to be is where you are. As soon as If you lose interest, it becomes very difficult. It's very hard to be in a place where there's something not interesting going on. And then we want to move. Very hard to stay in the same place, no matter what's going on.

[29:54]

And experience yourself without judgment. I remember the first time I sat Zazen, just sat down, faced the wall, and that all became very clear to me. I was just sitting there. No matter what I felt, I thought, there I was. It was the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me. I was just simply sitting down, facing the wall. So in Setso's verse, he says, commanding, this is the translation, commanding was his way of teaching. He had a commanding way of teaching. But he made no point of merit, which means that he didn't think of himself in some grandiose way.

[31:02]

He was very humble. No haughtiness or pride. seated majestically over the whole land. Another way of saying that is enthroned at the center of the universe. In other words, just being completely self-centered. Not self-centered, but centered. Universally centered, not self-centered. As I say, Buddha-centric. He distinguished the dragon from the stake. In other words, he could see the difference between someone who had some ability and someone that didn't. He could tell who was who and who was where in their practice. Emperor Taichu once encountered him and three times fell into his clutches. I'll read you this little story about Obaku and Emperor Taichu. Emperor Taichu

[32:04]

once encountered him and three times fell into his clutches. Emperor Taichu's personal name was Senso. This is in China. And his reign, 847 to 859, was called Taichu. When he was still a prince, he lived in Enkan Zenji's monastery where Obaku was at that time the head monk. So apparently he was studying Buddhism in the monastery with Obaku. Obaka was famous for bowing many times before the Buddha's image. And Senso said, he said to him, it is said, no, it is said, don't seek after it in the Buddha, don't seek after it in the Dharma, and don't seek after it in the Sangha. Why do you make so many bows? This is a very common thought in many Zen students' minds. Why are you making so many bows to the Buddha? Why do you do that stuff?

[33:08]

Senso said, and Obaku said, I don't seek it in the Buddha. I don't seek it in the Dharma. I don't seek it in the Sangha. I just bow. And Senso said, well, what's the use of doing it then? And Obaku slapped his cheek and woke him up. And Senso said, you rough fellow. And Obaku said, don't speak here about rough or gentle. That's not a question here. And he gave Senso another slap. And the retort and the two slaps are what Setshu means when he says, three times fall into his clutches. So here, you know, here's the emperor, the prince, right? But Obaku doesn't mind giving him a few slaps.

[34:13]

And the prince, of course, respects him. We have to be careful here, you know. This is not like being mean. This is like teaching, teaching with directness, waking somebody up. Why do you keep bowing to the Buddha? If you're not getting anything out of it, why are you doing it? That's the point. If you're not getting anything out of it, why are you doing it? This is like desire, right? Well, if you do something, you should get something out of it. Of course, you know. But no, I just bow. Just bowing. Because I bow. Maybe I bow out of respect. I'm not getting something. I'm giving something. I'm offering something.

[35:15]

I'm offering respect. I'm offering connection. So he was a good teacher for the emperor. who actually, I think, became a good emperor after studying with Obaku. When we come to practice, we don't get anything. There's nothing to get. It's just we pay our respects. We come to Zendo and pay our respects to Buddha. We sit in our position facing the wall and open ourselves completely to Buddha, to the universe, to whatever, holding nothing back. This is the place where you can be completely you, totally, without any self-centeredness or egotistical pursuits.

[36:24]

The place to drop body and mind. So you can talk about it, but it only makes sense to do it. So talking is to just help. So when I went to this conference, this teacher's conference, and I was talking about it kind of in this manner, and later The other day, somebody was criticizing me that I didn't talk about how many good classes we have at Zen Center, and what kind of teaching system we have at Zen Center. To me, that's not terribly relevant. I mean, it is relevant. But when we talk about our teaching, we don't brag about it. I don't brag about what a wonderful teaching system we have. I talk about what our practice is really about.

[37:29]

that thing which is unique to our practice. You can go to college and study Buddhism, and it's wonderful to have a kind of systematic way of studying, but that's not it. That's a great help. That's a kind of support for understanding, but it only goes so far. And the problem with that is that it can be a substitute for real understanding. Sekito, one of the Sixth Ancestors' students, was enlightened on reading something. But the reason he was enlightened on reading something was because of his enormous dedicated practice. Because of his practice, he was ready to understand And when he read something, it clicked in his mind.

[38:35]

This same case is presented in the Shoyo Roku. And I want to read you just a little example, a little story from that case, which is nice. Once, Lord Ji Hung, was reading a book in a room. He was a kind of lord, I guess, a very high Chinese official. And Liu Pian was planing a wheel outside the hall. He's a carpenter. So Liu Pan put aside his mallet and chisel and came up and asked, May I ask what you are reading, sir? Kind of impertinent, but pretty good. The Lord said, they are already dead. Liu Pan said, then what you are reading is the dregs of the ancients.

[39:50]

The Lord said, when a monarch reads a book, how can a wheelwright discuss it? Getting a little arrogant there. If you have an explanation, OK. But if not, you die. Actually, this is the way they used to be in China. There are many people that died that way. If you think you're so smart, you better prove it or you die. And they would kill him. Liu Pan said, well, I look upon this in light of my own work. When I plane a wheel, if I go too slow, it lacks vitality and it doesn't come out firm. If I go too quickly, it's hard and the plane doesn't penetrate. Not going slowly or quickly, I find it in my hands in accord with it in my mind. I feel my way and my body and mind do something

[40:59]

together to feel the way. But my mouth can't express it in words. There is an art to it, but I can't teach it to my son, and my son can't learn it from me. Therefore, I have been at it for 70 years, grown old, making wheels. The people of old, and that which they couldn't transmit, have died. Therefore, what you are reading, sir, is the dregs of the ancients." So I guess he lived. It doesn't say whether he lived or died. But this feeling your way, you know, this is practice. It's not like learning a system. You know, people say, well, when are people ever going to graduate from Zen Center? There's no graduation.

[42:01]

You know, there are some people who think, well, after 10 years, you know, you should have gotten a degree. You should have something, you know, to show your competence, maybe go out and teach. But a person can stay in Zen center their whole life and not be a teacher. That doesn't guarantee anything. Zen practice doesn't guarantee anything. You practice because you practice, because that's what you want to do more than anything else in the world. And a teacher will recognize a student who has that kind of dedication. At the same time, some teachers will only pay attention to students like that, but some teachers will will relate to everyone because this practice, it should be for everyone and not just for some elite.

[43:14]

Zen practice sometimes becomes very elite. The teacher will only take the good students and then they have a kind of elite group But that's the kind of problem. You want good students, you know, but everyone should be able to practice in some way. So somehow both things, to put together both of those things is the trick. To encourage really good students and to be open to everybody. and not really criticize anyone's practice. And at the same time, it's necessary to help people by being critical. You think you're practicing, but you're not. Sorry.

[44:18]

So every student is different. And the way a teacher works with every student is different. And it's not going too fast, not going too slow. Knowing how to see, and how to let somebody alone. And knowing how to not let somebody alone. And knowing how to give somebody a lot of space, and knowing how to not give somebody a lot of space. And having the time to do all that. That's the impossible part. That's why it's good to have a lot of teachers. Not too many, but enough. So, one of the roles of a teacher is to help create other teachers. So that there'll be a lot of encouragement to go around.

[45:25]

So sometime I'll talk about students. In all the land of China, there are no Zen students. I didn't say there was no Zen, I just said there are no Zen students.

[46:04]

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