I can no longer use the road as an excuse for staying here. So I talked to Reb yesterday and I talked to him in the morning and I talked to Michael actually first and he said, oh you should just stay down there. And I thought, great. Then I talked to Reb in the morning. He said, well, we're having the palace revolt up here at Gringotts. And apparently, the participants were criticizing the kind of way that Japanese, the Shungucho, sees their foreign students, foreigners, and treats them patronizingly.

[01:11]

And so there was this brouhaha that they were in the midst of. And he says, you know, why don't you stay down there? And so I called him later, and he said, everybody wants you up here. Get up here. And actually they wanted me to stay long, they wanted me to stay into Sashin. And I said, no way that I'm going to do that. So I kind of compromised and said that I would go up, but I'd come back the day before Sashin. That's the 23rd. So I'm leaving today. And so that's why we have my last class this morning. It was going to be the Shuso talk, and he kindly agreed to talk tomorrow morning. So, I'm leaving today, right after this class. And so, we left off where I think

[02:22]

You know, we were talking about the burden of riches and let one's senses be controlled. That's a good one. We didn't talk about controlling our senses much, did we? A little bit? A little bit. Yeah, we did talk about that. I just want to say a little bit about frustration. When we can't find solutions, then we become frustrated. And I just want to say that there's always a solution. There's always a way to find out what to do. When we are frustrated, we can stop here, or we can stop here.

[03:33]

Where do we come to the place where there's no solution? That's really interesting. Where we have to express ourselves emotionally, do something violently, or blame somebody, or scream and yell. And I think my practice is, one aspect of my practice is to always keep looking for solutions. And I kind of enjoy finding solutions to things, I think I made it a practice to find solutions. So when I come into a situation and I see elements that need to go together in some way, or how do you do something, I'm always thinking, well, what's the solution?

[04:39]

And if I can't find it, then I think, well, but there must be a way to do this. There's got to be a way to do something so that we can go on. Otherwise, you just stay stuck. you know, things don't flow. So, I think the deep question is how do you keep things flowing so that you're never really stuck, you know, like that culvert, right? All this stuff jammed into the culvert and then all the water is going over it. Well, how do you get it unstuck? How do you get things unstuck? How do you get things to move, you know? So, I think we have to always keep thinking about that, always. because there's always something coming that's clogging our mouth, right? Like a stuck pig with an apple in its mouth. And how do you digest that, actually? How do you digest whatever's coming in and get the value out of it and make it work and make that actually work for you and with you?

[05:46]

so that you're always energized by a problem instead of defeated by it. Good thing to think about. So, let one be wise but not puffed up. We talked about that a little bit. Barbara mentioned something like that, I remember, you know, not to be not to let your successes inflate your ego. They say when someone is developing spiritually, that the hardest thing to get rid of is the sense of pride and power. They say once you're addicted to power, it's almost impossible to turn around.

[06:48]

And pride is the last thing to go, usually. So, if you want to be developed spiritually, you always have to continually keep giving up this sense of false pride, or puffed-upness. I remember reading When I was first starting to practice this book of Kanzas called Buddhism, and he was quoting something and it came to this passage where it said, a monk delights in giving up. And that really struck me. It's always stayed with me. A monk delights in giving up. Usually we delight in getting, right? But delight in giving up. In other words, you just turn it around and instead of saying, how wonderful to have, say, how wonderful not to have. Same thing.

[07:51]

Only on the other side. Yes. It's funny, I was just thinking about that this morning, how I think when I first started to practice, I thought that this sort of peeling away my self-importance would actually make me important. Because there'd be this sort of recognition, oh, this person, you know, has dropped her ego, you know, and I was just sort of laughing. about how, you know, that constantly sort of comes up, even as it peels away, that, oh, something has happened, you know. It traps the snares all along the way. And that keeps going. But, you know... That's right. That's quite correct, you know. One is so proud of themselves for having nothing, you know, for being able to give up, right? Very hard. Well, we also have almost a biological response to praise and blaming. Yes. We open, rather than use the analogy of a flower, we open when we hear a kind word or a praise and close when we turn away when it's unpleasant or complaining.

[09:05]

It's true. So is not having false pride kind of getting caught up in it then and making it something substantial? Well, whatever it is that inflates the ego. You know? Ego is necessary. You know, we say get rid of ego. But you can't get rid of ego. Ego is necessary. In the absolute sense, ego doesn't exist. Ego is I. But in the relative sense, you can't get rid of ego. It's just like you have to eat, and you have to sleep, and you have to walk, and you have to relate. So there's a sense of somebody's doing that. So there's a reasonable ego. just like there's a reasonable desire.

[10:09]

You can't get rid of desire, you can't get rid of ego. But ego is necessary in order to have a sense of self. We have to have a sense of self, even though we know that it's not a real self. We know that, or we should know that, or we try to know that, or we think we should know that. We're told that there's no ego, right? That there's no self. And so we try to believe it. But we know that it's true at the same time. But a healthy ego is important. Yes, I do. No, I don't. I have my yes and I have my no. That's a healthy ego. So that's important. But at the same time, we have to keep it in its proper shape and proper proportion, so that it doesn't inflate itself.

[11:18]

So there is a yes and there is a no, and there is no way to respond, even though it's not It's not substantially high, yet there it is. But to keep it within proper bounds. What is Buddhism about? Buddha said, it's just the norm. Buddhism is the norm. When you read the sutras, Buddha says, this is the norm. Well, what's the norm? The norm is to keep everything in bounds. Keep it normal. What's normal? That's actually what our practice is, to find out what is normal. That may sound boring, because actually what is interesting is not what's normal.

[12:25]

And Suzuki Roshi said, Buddha's practice is not interesting. It's not interesting and it's not exciting. It's coming back to the norm. So, that's a good poem. Like, what is the norm? Good question. What does it mean, the norm? Normal? Then we talked about not desiring great possessions even for one's family. Let no one do anything that's mean or that wisdom would reprove. This is the ideal. We have our ideals and then we have real life. And sometimes we get caught up in the ideal.

[13:28]

Ideal is should. Remember that? Don't have it. To be and should be. The ideal is should. And so when we say should, we're really expressing the ideal. But then we fall back on the actual, and then there's this conflict. How come you're always saying should, you know? What do you mean should? Because we're falling back on the actual, which is normal. We should be falling back on the actual. But we shouldn't get stuck in the actual because the ideal is what gives us some vision. So we have to have vision as well as being able to see just the way things are. So vision and ideal gives us a way to go and pulls us out of where we are or gives us a way for where we are to manifest

[14:32]

in a way that we feel we should. So, the tension between ideal and actual is our life. That's exactly where our life is, the tension between those two. And there is always this tension, you know. When we read the sutras, if you read the ten bhumis, you know, the Bodhisattva, you just close the book, you know. They're not talking about human beings. But that's the ideal, you know. Then you look at yourself and think, God, you know, maybe I should go wash my clothes or something. But we always come back to the real. So we shouldn't get stuck in the ideal. The ideal should be there, but we shouldn't get stuck in it. Otherwise, you can't stand yourself, you know?

[15:33]

So, the most important part of practice is to accept yourself. Really accept yourself just the way you are. Then you can accept everybody else the way they are, and then we can all decide, well, let's go this way. That's the ideal. We know who we are, we accept it, and let's work toward this, you know? Can you say it a little louder? Well, don't be literal. Whatever I say, don't take it literally. Yes. Yes. Well, you know, we like the praise sometimes, but it's also embarrassing, you know?

[16:37]

Praise is embarrassing. And so you want to get to the real, which is the criticism, which is not what we like, but we know it's good medicine. So it is more interesting, much more interesting. I don't know if interesting is a word, but it's more very real. If we can accept criticism, I think it's something for us to look for and actually be grateful for it. That's why I say, thank you very much. When somebody gives us something that we don't like, we are just as happy to get it as we are to get the other side. And if we really have that attitude, then everything that comes to us can help us really grow very fast that way.

[17:39]

Well, I was just thinking of interesting where the word comes from. It means intervene, inter-essay. Inter-essay. So that means related, between, interconnectedness, some interest and some reaction. Connecting things together. Yeah, or considering disparate things. There is a life on its own. In the interest, there is a life on its own. That's right. So it's an interesting word. That's right. I'm glad you said that. So then, may all beings be happy. This is the wish. To me, this is the center of the sutra. The rest is kind of commentary. And this is like, it's like in the Heart Sutra, it says, gate gate, you know. The Heart Sutra is the only sutra really that has a gata in it, either anywhere in it. It's very unusual.

[18:45]

The sutra is explanatory, and at the bottom is this, you know, mantra, gata, that is expressive And that's the same thing here. May all beings be happy. May they be joyous and live in safety. So, I think if we keep that as the bottom of our practice, then, and I think we do, then you're always wishing that for everyone, and you also wish it for yourself. It's a kind of guiding principle. And when you get angry, you know, it's always, Suzuki Roshi used to say, Zen masters get very angry. And in one sense he was criticizing them, and in another sense he was saying, but there's a reason for them getting angry.

[19:57]

And he said, when I get angry, I get angry sometimes, But I don't mean that I'm angry. It doesn't mean that I'm angry. When I get angry, it doesn't mean that I'm angry. In other words, he could use anger like he would use anything else. But he was not possessed by anger. So there's a little difference between using anger and being possessed by anger. Or rather, having anger use you. When we give in to anger, then anger is using us. So we're used by our emotions, rather than... This is what it means by having control. Self-control means that you use your emotions, rather than having your emotions on your own, like this.

[21:00]

And anger is something that You know, it's wonderful. It's like sex. You get off on it. People do. I mean, it's a great substitute. And it's even better. But, you know, you just get this rush and this thrill, you know, and you're just completely gone, if you let yourself do it. And mayhem, you know, But if we know how to use anger, then we can make a point with it. But at the same time, you have the well-being of everyone in mind. You express anger as love.

[22:01]

It takes an adept to do that. But even if you're expressing anger, you're still expressing love. Because the basis is that you're always protecting the person. You know, Aikido, the principle of Aikido is that you're using the other person's anger or emotion or aggressiveness allowing the energy of that to... The opponent's energy is what trips up the opponent. You don't do anything. Basically, you just let the person get off balance through their own aggressiveness. And then they... the force of their energy is what puts them off balance.

[23:13]

And the job of the Aikido person is to protect them. Not to hurt them, but to protect them. So, I think there's a lot to be learned in that. So, you don't have an enemy, exactly. You know, even when people are aggressive and coming at you in one way or another, your stance is always to put forth protection and love, so that you don't get pulled off. If you get pulled off balance, then you become like the enemy, or like the other person. So, as soon as you give in to anger, at somebody else's anger, then you're right in the same place. You're no longer yourself. So how do you stand your ground at all times? That's Zen practice.

[24:14]

How do you stand your ground at all times? And what are you grounded in? You're always protecting. If you're sending out love all the time, then what happens when somebody comes at you, you know, to kill you? You change your stance? If you don't change your stance, then you have to figure a way out, given what you believe in. And that's very interesting. Yes? I was sort of thinking about this, because it seems that, you know, if you try to maintain a stance of, like, not getting involved with the other person's anger, you often may feel rejected or judged. And one of the things I have felt, that for me, I have a tendency to sort of meet the person with, you know, some response of anger as well, and somehow in that meeting if it's done, you know, I don't know, it seems to move things a little more clearly or something, to actually meet someone with that energy.

[25:27]

And so that then, you know, there's some more clarity about what their feelings are about. You know what I mean? To meet the person emotionally. Right. With something. Yeah, that's what I think. To meet the person emotionally with them, or sometimes to leave a space for the person, so that they find that their emotion is just coming back to themselves. So there are different ways of doing things, and there's no method. Right, that's right. There's no method, there are only attitudes, and you have to feel it out. And the more you practice something, the easier it is to respond. People say, well, you know, I have all this, it's been personal, ask a question in the lecture. How do I get rid of, how do I control my anger? You know, well, the only way you can do that is to practice for 10 years, controlling your anger.

[26:32]

You know, just to say, well, you know, you do this or that. It's very easy to be glib and say, well, you know, hold it back, or give it out, or something like that. It doesn't help, you know. It only helps them to get on the path, hopefully. But when you practice this day in and day out, then when a situation comes up, you respond, because that's where you're coming from. But to just have an idea about it may or may not work. Yeah. If the effort is in self-protection, in general, there will be a problem. Yes. And however you respond to this effort may be, but if the effort is toward not protecting the self, but being engaged with what's coming towards you, which is very much so, then that engagement and lack of fear,

[27:36]

helps you to find the appropriate action at the appropriate time. That's right. It's very difficult not to do the protection. That's right. As soon as you start to protect yourself, then... you back the other person into a corner. And... because you're rejecting. Self-protection is the hardest thing to let go of. And that's what we do in Zazen all the time, is let go of our self-protection. That's what Zazen is, actually, letting go of self-protection. You're just sitting there, and completely, we say, in the palm of Buddha's hand,

[28:42]

you know, with anybody who can come up and do anything they want to. And you have all this pain coming in, which you cannot protect yourself against. As soon as you start to protect yourself, you're lost. All you can do is open up. And it's the opposite of the way your reactions go. Our reactions are always self... are protective, you know, when somebody comes at you, you go like this, you know, whereas In Zazen, you have to go like this. It's the opposite of the reactive mode. It's the responsive mode. You respond by opening. And it goes for relationships and with everything. As soon as you are open, you can do, you know, but you might get something, but whatever you get can't be worse than what you get for protecting yourself. Yeah, I have this idea that, for example, if I'm successful, or not successful, but a situation arises in which I don't participate in this, and I'm angry, and the other person's angry, but I give them some space, or I give myself some space, but then I feel like that I'm, you know, like pushing it down, repressing it, and then I feel like, we talked about this before, earlier, with laying it down on the line.

[30:12]

Next time I see that person, that's still really fresh in my mind and it's like the resentment that comes up and then maybe I'm still pushing it down and then you know weeks later somebody else has to make, you look tired and then all that stuff just comes out to another person that doesn't have anything to do with it so you know this thing about just like experiencing it physically in my body and then just letting it go I mean that's a good idea and that's a good practice but I still have this idea that I have to let it out somehow, otherwise it's going to come out. It's an innocent person, I'm myself. Well, yeah, I mean, that's frustration. You know, sometimes we can just sit down with ourself and breathe, you know, calm our whole self down. I think that's a very good one. I mean, there are times, you know, when I've had various emotional things, you know, and I just sit down and zazen until it's gone.

[31:18]

I can do that, you know, you can do that. Just sit down and let the pain come in, you know, the sitting, and that will kind of wash away this other pain, you know, which will seem not so big in comparison. And then you get up, you know, and you're much more calm about it, even though the thing is still there. So there's an inflation, you know, anger gets very inflated, and if you calm down, if you can do that, it's not that the source of the anger is gone, but it's much smaller, you know, and reasonable. So, anger is called ego builder. It creates ego, and we bring ego down to a proper proportion. So that's one way. There are times when nothing will help. That's the other side.

[32:20]

But sometimes you can come up to the person and say, I'm very angry. Let's talk about this, or let's look at it. If you look at it out there, instead of looking at it this way, nothing it only ends up in a fight. But if you say, well, let's look at this thing together, you know, and then you show a picture, and you're both watching the picture, then you can diffuse the thing, diffuse it, you know, it becomes bigger than just the two of you, or whatever. So there are different ways of figuring things out, you know. Sometimes you can't do anything, you just have to take a long walk. Sometimes only time, you know, will solve something. There are no formulas, but there are ways to deal with it. There are ways to deal with it, and I think it's good for us to know how to deal with it.

[33:22]

I was told by a Theravada teacher that the antidote for anger was loving kindness. Of course. It seemed very phony or false to try it, but after a while I realized that you can think of good quality for somebody, and then maybe you can work yourself down to that person, or up to that person, or think of their... Well, this is what I was talking about, actually, because, you know, the Theravadins will say, well, the antidote to anger is loving-kindness. So just turn on loving-kindness when you get angry. That's kind of simplistic. I think in the Theravadan tradition, as I was saying, if you practice loving-kindness all the time, then it's an antidote to anger. Because the loving-kindness is so strong that it's a basis.

[34:26]

Even though you may be angry, that basis is still there. you may be angry, but the anger is on the surface, whereas the love and kindness is at the base. So you can be angry at somebody, like a husband and wife can be angry at each other, but underneath they love each other, then the anger comes and goes. It's a part of life, everybody gets angry. the basis is love. If the love isn't there, then the anger just destroys everything. So the loving-kindness, the metta, is a base for allowing this other thing to happen, without destroying it, without people destroying each other, or without a relationship being destroyed. So I get angry at somebody, I go, God damn it, why did you do this, blah, blah. But the feeling underneath is there, so that I'm not, you know,

[35:31]

as soon as the anger is expressed, then we're back to normal relationship. It doesn't have to linger on and stay there forever, you know. I was always confused by that too. It's like being possessed by anger, I mean, loving kindness is just some kind of thing out there. But what made more sense was in Shantideva, it's patience. I think patients also say, well this is very difficult, but it seemed like at least to wait and not to be acting out the anger, it helped me at least get some kind of perspective on how does this anger go into a cycle. Right. Patience is a form of metta. So this part where it says, may all beings be happy, may they be joyous and live in safety.

[36:43]

And then, all living beings, whether weak or strong, in high or middle or low realms of existence, small or great, visible or invisible, near or far, born or to be born, may all beings be happy. So this is part of that same wish. It's like a, Kind of like a prayer. I think there's those two sections. Born or to be born brings up the question of abortion. But I don't want to get into that. Not right now. It's an interesting subject. We've never discussed it. What is the question you don't want to get into? Abortion. It's something we've never really discussed. Or when does life begin? Yeah, when does life begin, exactly. And when does it end? So, let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in any state.

[37:50]

I remember Sasaki Roshi saying, You have to have compassion for Hitler. If you don't have compassion for Hitler, you don't understand Buddhadharma. Something like that. I'm just fixated on this concept of being happy. Isn't that dualistic? It may all be to be happy. It is dualistic, but I think we have to be careful. We live in a dualistic world and sometimes wisdom has to be expressed dualistically. You know, if you're only non-dualistic, you know, an aloof, you know, this is where people get stuck, you know.

[39:03]

They get stuck in their non-duality, you know. I'm not going to touch, you know. You guys can fight it out, you know, but I'm going to be... I'm not dualistic, so... So we have to get our hands dirty in duality. We have to, you know, get our minds polluted by induality. And in... Happiness is not a thing. It's not a thing. It's a quality. And it's a quality that is a result of something. You can't get a happiness. People try to get happy. You smoke dope and you drink beer and you watch football games. You do all the things you do. You buy houses, you get cars and stereos or whatever it is, in order to be happy. But those things, they make you happy, but they also, you know, they're not real happiness, right?

[40:11]

They're just happy things. And we can't buy happiness, you know. Happiness is the result, real happiness, joy is the result of our behavior, you know, the way we And so deep happiness or deep joy is the ground, actually. It comes out of the ground. It comes out of the ground of being. So when we're embedded in the ground of being, it's naturally joyous, even though unhappy things are happening all the time. That's what zazen is. In zazen, you're right there in the ground of being. There are all these unhappy things going on, like pain in your legs and stuff like that, but it doesn't bother you, you know, because you're grounded in happiness. Which, you know, Rick, you don't say this is happiness, but sometimes you do, you know.

[41:15]

May all beings be happy doesn't mean may they have all the toys they want. It means may they really be grounded in reality and be happy. So when you're grounded in reality, you're happy, even though There are a lot of unhappy things going on on the surface. One of the wishes is now to be peaceful, happy and liberated. Yeah, sure. That's what it means. Peaceful, happy and liberated. Settled. Enlightened. Back for a moment to loving kindness and anger. I've heard that anger is actually the opposite of loving kindness and indifference. If something is happening in anger, then it's definitely not indifferent. I don't think it's that far away from love and kindness. If you erase the pain, it might teach you something. It might show you a way to love. Yes. Emotion. E means move. No, E means... Motion is motion, and E means to move.

[42:25]

So, it's the movement of our feelings. It's the emotions. We have a feeling and then we have an emotion. We move the feeling out. Yeah. So, aggression actually in this book means taking in your hands. Handling. Yeah. And so... Aggression means... in a way that it's handling, taking in your hands, moving towards and doing something with. So very often aggression is actually there to break a barrier or make a contact. And so it's what you're saying too, it's kind of like if we don't get caught by it but see maybe what the intention of it is, it's very often like to get really close to really being. Well, anger can move things, you know, and anger can, when there's a jam and no other way to deal with it, anger can sometimes break it up, you know, and so there's no emotion that's intrinsically good or bad, you know, it's the way we use things that makes something, yeah.

[43:49]

Well, that also makes me feel something that I you know, there's this tendency to sort of stay here and think, I'm the one who's practicing, you know, Buddhism, and these other people have all these problems. And that in a way... Or the other way around. They're all practicing Buddhism. Right. But whatever it is, whatever way it seems, that actually all the actions and responses and reactions that anyone needs, that I need, or that I cause in other people, These are all these efforts for us to enlighten each other. You know, it's not a matter of, you know, this is happening because that person doesn't understand it like me, and this is happening because I don't understand it. But that, that, the arising of all these things is kind of a way, you know. Right. Everything that we do is a ground for practice. Yes. Exactly. That's right. Everything. So, let's see. I always had this model, thought of this model of how we are.

[44:57]

Like a boiler, you know, like a big 55-gallon drum with a fire under it. And it's full of water and you turn up the fire and then it gets to be steamed. And then there are all these pipes running out of it, and these pipes all have little valves. And when the fire gets hot, and the water starts boiling, and the steam starts coming up, it starts moving, emoting the steam. And then we have a valve called love, you know, and a pipe going out that way. And we have a valve called hate, and it goes out that way. anger, you know, we have a valve called jealousy, you know, all of these feelings and emotions have that energy, but the source is the same, you know, and we can turn off, we can open this valve or turn it off, or open this valve, and the energy is the same energy, the same energy that goes into love is the energy that goes into ill will, you know, someone who

[46:11]

very angry, makes a wonderful bodhisattva when they turn around, because they have all that energy, you know, and there's nothing more wonderful than to see someone who is very angry all the time turn around and express it through the other pipe, you know. It really comes pouring out, you know, wow, you know. I would say that oftentimes the anger comes up due to indifference. In other words, a person such as myself, perhaps, might express anger because they see a lack of something, or a complacency, or an indifferent attitude. And I was reading Brother David, I think in Russia, they spoke together.

[47:15]

you know, anger is the extra energy needed to overcome obstacles. And Aitken said, you know, I told you this before, he was convinced that anger was a virtue, unless it's involved. That's also correct, that anger is a big problem. If you think that because anger is okay, that it's not a big problem, that's a big problem. So, yes, anger has its place, just like any other emotion has its place. But the problem with anger is, that the fire gets really hot and boom. So, there are two things that are dangerous emotionally. One is anger and the other is sex, sexual feeling. These are the two explosive emotions and they have to be really controlled because they get out of hand and it's just like a raging fire.

[48:26]

You know, you stand there with your hose, you know, and the fire will go out. It just burns everything to the ground. But anger in right proportion at the right time, used in the right way, very helpful. And as you said, you know, your examples are both good. I just want to conclude by saying that if I saw a little less indifference, this is my view, then I think, personally, I would be less prone to express anger in a way that I see as kind of like trying to wake people up. I also see, you know, he said indifference perhaps is the opposite of loving kindness. And that's, I would actually like to see a little more communal fire in a place like this, in right proportion, rather than what I see as indifference or extreme tolerance.

[49:30]

I think tolerance is fine, but... Okay. It seems to me that We get confused around the issue of anger because, in fact, most of us don't know how to express it cleanly and well. And so there's a lot of talk about don't be angry when actually what we're talking about is an inability to allow our anger to honestly be shown and an example would be you threw the shot the other day. It was a moment, it was angry and it was over. But it was very clear. And my thought is that most of us have very little experience in actually going from boom, boom.

[50:37]

And what we do instead is try to explain about how we are angry. and try to act as though we're really very reasonable people in our rage. And we're all blocked up around it, and the intensity of that blockage is terrifying to the other person, because if you take your example of this boiler, you know, all those valves are closed, and all we can feel is the heat that's about to explode in a way that's going to burn us all. So if we can learn to govern in such a way that anger is simply one of our expressions of one another and honestly done, I think, you know, so I feel that that's where some of the focus needs to go for us as to how to do it better. I think that all the things are, have validity that we've said.

[51:42]

It's a very complex problem, and it's an endless problem. It's a completely endless problem that we're always working on. But if we continue to work, to be conscious, consciously thinking about how we work with our emotions, we'll continue to develop in a good way. I'd like to rebut that by saying that what Mel usually does is explain things. She understands that. Yeah, I thought you lost it when you threw the chalk, so... No, no. Well, you know, I wouldn't say I lost it, but I gave myself the permission to do that. But this is what I... one thing I want to say is When we get into something with each other, to deny the other person's reality is the biggest cause of problems.

[52:52]

To say, no, that's not right. No, that's not, you know. No, no, it's like this. You deny the other person. As soon as you deny somebody else's reality, then you have an argument. You have to acknowledge the other person's whatever it is. You say, yes, this is so. I understand this. And the implication is, I completely accept your right to see it that way. And then you say what you have to say. Otherwise, no, no, you're wrong. This is the right one. As soon as you say that, you're denying someone else's reality. And then they have to defend themselves. You push them into a corner. So, we're always pushing each other into these corners. Not always, but we push each other into a corner. And then, what's the problem? So, don't push people into corners. And then you won't have the same kind of problems, of arguments.

[53:57]

You have to acknowledge that the other person has a valid point of view, whether you believe it or not. And if things are not the way you think they should be, well, there's something valid in that too, even though you may feel that what you have to say is valid and people should listen. So you say, no, you're wrong, it should be this way. That's it. You have to be careful about that. It's 9.30. 8.30, 9.30. What time do we start? 8.30. Yeah, 8.30. Okay, we can go a little bit longer. So even at the mother, even as a mother, the risk of her life, watches over and protects her only child,

[55:06]

so with a boundless mind should one cherish all living things." That means each other. You know, the Hindus say, through rebirth, that everyone, whether it's at one time or another, your mother, your daughter, your son, you know, everybody's exchanged places so many times in rebirth that we've all had these different places in relationships with everybody. Of course we know that it's not necessarily true, but it could be. I don't discount anything as a possibility, whether I believe it or not. But it's an interesting way of just thinking about our relationships. When we see the other person as other, then we have a problem. enlightened practice is not to see the other as other.

[56:11]

Say a fool sees himself as the other and a sage sees others as herself. We always see, you know, when we see people's other, then we have, we do have to see the person's other, otherwise we can't play ball, you know. There has to be someone out there to play catch with. At the same time, just the playing catch means that other is myself. As soon as there is engagement, the other is myself. The other is other, but other is myself. When Steve Young throws a pass to Jerry Rice, Jerry Rice is Jerry Rice, Steve Young is Steve Young, but Steve Young is Jerry Rice, and Jerry Rice is Steve Young, and they just take away the names, and it's just one person.

[57:32]

So, even as a mother, well, you know, mothers will protect their children at any cost. And this exists in the world, people do that, but mostly people see each other as other, and it's a big problem. suffusing love over the entire world, above, below, all around, ten directions, without limit. Let one cultivate an infinite goodwill toward the whole world. I think that's Buddhist practice. Definitely Buddhist practice. And it doesn't deny the non-duality of not the truth of non-duality. Abandoning vague discussions, not falling into wrong views or whatever you want to say.

[58:50]

Having a clear vision. Clear vision means ideal, right seeing, and freed from sense appetites, The thing about sense appetites is that once we start craving, then we start using. And once we start using, we tend to rationalize whatever we get. We tend to rationalize the harming of other beings as being okay to get what we want. And this is what's happened to the world, right? The so-called third world is feeding the so-called first world, you know, and the greed of the first world is absorbing all the nourishment from the third world.

[59:59]

So this is what's the problem with sense appetites, and it has to start with us, each individual. And when I think about how much we exploit in order to have our happiness, or whatever you want to call it, it's overwhelming. So the three roots of evil are greed, ill will, and delusion. And the three good roots are non-greed, ill will and non-delusion. So there are no positive good roots. It's just the absence of the bad ones. Because if you eliminate the bad ones, then you have original nature. It's always there. You don't have to produce anything.

[61:02]

And here it says, one who is made perfect. I don't like that line. When I modified this, I left that in. But I would say one who achieves the way or something like that. And then usually the sutra stops with, will never be reborn. And I didn't like that. Because being reborn has a lot of different meanings. One meaning is that one will become extinct and never be born into the world again. That's one meaning. Another is that, as it says here, we'll never again know rebirth in the cycle of the creation of suffering. So when we talk about rebirth, And, you know, if you want to attain nirvana, you get rid of greed, ill will, and delusion.

[62:19]

That's nirvana. Nirvana is the norm. Nirvana is the norm, the normal state, without greed, without ill will, and without delusion. And what we keep being born into, the cycle of rebirth is due to greed and delusion. This is the cause of the constant series of rebirths, because through these karma activities, karma arises. So the karmic formations, through the indulgence of karmic formations, we create more karma, which creates rebirth. So the rebirth that I'm interested in is the rebirth through greed, anger, and delusion, and the karma formations. Whether or not that results in another rebirth in the world of a person, I'm not so interested in, because bodhisattva purposely becomes

[63:28]

allows themselves to be reborn into the world over and over again until everyone has reached enlightenment. So we don't have to be so concerned about whether or not we're born into the world again. We should be born into the world again. We should enter the world and enter the muck of the world after we practice the purity of the monastery. But it's a different entering. It's a different entry. It's entering into the world and not being submerged by it. So, you know, you're submerged by the things of the world, then you go to the monastery and you clean up. You find a foundation. So that when you go back into the world, you don't get submerged by it.

[64:29]

And that's how you help people. Yes? Just a note on the word perfect. Usually we think of perfect as being without fault. But I think one of the root meanings of perfect is to be complete in all its parts. So in some sense, perfect means to be whole, to remain whole. Yeah. That's a good point. made whole. I think that's better, actually, to say made whole, complete. Yes. So one who is complete, made complete, or completes themselves, will never again know rebirth in this cycle of creation of suffering for ourselves or others. But you don't cause others a problem as long as yourself. And you don't keep being reborn through your karma, repeating your karma over and over again. When you get to be 40 years old, you say, God, I've repeated this cycle in my life over and over again.

[65:37]

Here I am doing the same things I was doing. Because the cycle, the karma of your actions, the retribution result, just keeps appearing over and over again until you stop. the causes, cut off the causes. So, yes. Well, I was, I can't remember, I was just reading something where it was saying that it's not that pain and pleasure end, but that the suffering it causes ends. Yes. And this was a feeling I had about what the hell realms were about, that they're not places of punishment, but places of purification, where you actually, through experiencing the whole of the suffering, things just become pain and pleasure rather than, you know, creating this, like, how do I get out of this? How do I fix this? How do I? But it's just the experience. That's a really good point. Because suffering is something extra.

[66:38]

You know, pain is pain. Pleasure is pleasure. That's all. But suffering is not wanting to accept them. As you found out when you sat Zazen, First time. Or the second time. Pain is just pain. Not suffering. Necessarily. But you add this. As soon as you don't like it, it starts to become suffering. So just stop liking and disliking. Isn't that what the Xin Xin Ming says? You know, their ancestors. Just stop liking and disliking. and everything will be okay. Yeah. But you can do it, strangely enough. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't like or dislike, you know, but don't get caught by the duality of liking and disliking.

[67:43]

You can do anything you like, dislike, enjoy, just don't get caught by anything. Do what you want, just don't get caught. That's right. You have to be like a good thief. We always appreciate a good thief. One who doesn't get caught. And there was something else that you said. I can't remember what it was. What did you say? Oh, the hell rooms. As we say, for a Zen student, hell is just another place to practice. You have to remember that. Well, please practice. And I know everybody will be, while I'm gone, you'll be your own teachers, as you always are.

[69:06]

And good teachers to each other, as you always are. And whatever comes at you is something to practice with. So you shouldn't have any problem. I know you won't. We'll all be practicing together. You'll be here and I'll be over there. And we'll just be practicing together as we always do. So, I'll let you know about it, all about it when we come back. At least take care of yourselves.

[69:40]

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