There's a lot of interest in practice enlightenment. There's also a lot of interest in practice, and there's also a lot of interest in enlightenment. I have not done a survey, and I don't think I will, about who is interested in practice, who is interested in enlightenment, and who is interested in practice enlightenment. And without doing a survey, I can tell you something about me, which is that I'm interested in practice,

[01:02]

enlightenment, and practice enlightenment. And I feel, I feel that I really, the center of my interest is my central interest is practice enlightenment. It's not that I'm not interested in practice, or it's not that I'm not interested in enlightenment. It's not that. It's just that I don't need to be. But I do need to be interested in practice enlightenment. I need to. And, by the way, what I need to be interested in and devoted to, which I'm calling practice enlightenment,

[02:05]

you may have noticed it includes practice and enlightenment. Did you? That's why I don't have to be concerned about practice and enlightenment, because they're included in what I'm interested in. The last time we had a sitting here, I think, was in the past. And that sitting was following a January intensive.

[03:16]

I think I maybe told the people during that sitting something about what we were interested in during the January intensive. Did I? Did that happen? And what did I say we were working on in January intensive? Anybody remember? The most important thing. The most important thing. Finding... Huh? Staying in touch with the most important thing, knowing what that is, and living with that. And she wasn't at the January intensive, but she was here last time, right? And that's right, that's what we were working on to some extent during the January intensive. People were interested in some other things, but that was sort of what was the... kind of a theme, is what's the most important thing. Do you agree, Simon, that that was our theme?

[04:19]

One of our themes? Huh? And intimacy. Simon just said, and. But it's not really and intimacy. Intimacy is a potential most important thing. So for some people, like some ancestors of this lineage, the most important thing was intimacy. So some of you are familiar with the service we do over at Green Gulch and Santa Cruz, and at San Francisco Zen Center, we chant the names of ancestors,

[05:20]

and one of our ancestors we say is Doan Kanshi Daiyōshō, which is a Japanese way of saying his Chinese name, Doan Kanshi. And Doan Kanshi had an attendant, and his attendant's name was Ryozan Enkan. So Ryozan Enkan was the attendant of Doan Kanshi. And he carried Doan Kanshi's robes, carried this robe for him. And one day, as he was handing the teacher the robe, the teacher said to the attendant, what's the most important thing under this robe?

[06:23]

Actually, that's sort of an elaboration of what he said. He said, what's the thing under the robe? And that character thing also could be translated as business or job. Chinese character means phenomena, thing, job, business. What's the most important affair? What's the most important business? What's the most important thing under this robe that we're wearing? And the attendant couldn't say anything. And so then the teacher said, Okay, okay, now you ask me. So the attendant asked the teacher, what's the most important thing under the patch robe?

[07:33]

And the teacher said, intimacy. Is that the story where he also said, what's hell? Say it again? In that story he said, what is hell? No, it's a different story. It's a different one. Yeah. If you mention it later, I'll bring that one up too. But it's similar. It's a similar story. Quite similar. Because, oh, I forgot part of the story. After the student couldn't say anything, the teacher said, to wear this robe and not reach this realm. What realm? The realm under the robe. To not reach the realm of the business under the robe.

[08:41]

There's some business under the robe. And to wear the robe and not reach the business under the robe is most painful. Thank you, Sonja. That's still a different story though. So, there's business under the robe and to wear the robe but not know the business is to miss out on the business. And missing out on the business, that's your business. Missing out on the business of being your business is most painful. Now, earlier in the past, but not too long ago, I brought up something about something that I was interested in. Don't you remember? Do you remember I brought something up? Did I say I was interested in it?

[09:45]

Practice enlightenment. Practice enlightenment is two words, right? Kind of? There are two words for one word. What's the one word? Intimacy. Practice enlightenment, two words for intimacy. Intimacy is one word for two words. Okay. Now, another word for intimacy is, go ahead, get to say it, what is it? Practice enlightenment. That's two words. Enlightenment. No, no. Zazen. Zazen. Zazen is another word for practice enlightenment, intimacy.

[10:47]

So, again, during the January intensive, we were bringing up the issue of what's the most important thing, what's the most important, not what are the two most important, what's the most important thing? Intimacy, Zazen, practice enlightenment. Somebody could say, people were allowed to say enlightenment, and they were allowed to say practice, too. Somebody else, as I mentioned, somebody else could say, the most important thing is my baby. There's a lot of possible answers to that question, but anyway, here we are. And, so during the intensive, I brought that up, and I asked people what it is, and people said various things in response,

[11:50]

and then we, and that, by the way, is sometimes what we, what I might call faith. And I also maybe, I don't know, mentioned it not too many times, but back in 1986, when I became Abbot of Zen Center, I stood on the mountain and I said, you know, my faith is Zazen. My faith is practice enlightenment, which includes practice and enlightenment, but it doesn't just include them, it's the non-duality of them, the intimacy of them. That's my faith. That's what I'm betting on in this life. I'm betting on a practice, which is enlightenment, and I'm betting on an enlightenment, which is practice. Some people have other kinds of enlightenment,

[12:51]

I think, I've heard about, and they're very happy with those, but some of those practices don't include, some of those enlightenments don't include practice, and some people are, a lot of people are doing practice, and they don't think it's enlightenment. They're doing practice to get enlightenment. It is a practice, but I'm not emphasizing the practice to get enlightenment. I'm emphasizing the practice of enlightenment. That's my faith. That's what I aspire to. That's what I, and that's the practice that I'm doing, is a practice which is, which is what I want. I'm doing the practice, which is the practice of the life I want to live. It's the present, which is not distinguished

[13:53]

from the goal. Even though those look like two things, I want to live a life which doesn't get trapped by the apparent separateness of the way I am, and complete, perfect enlightenment, which, you know, seems kind of like, well, a little different, and yet, I don't want to fall into a trap of that distinction, so I want to give up that distinction, and I am devoted to unsurpassed, complete, perfect enlightenment as practice, and practice as that. So that's sort of what we talked about during the intensive. And now, we have a new practice period, and the topic of the new practice period

[14:55]

is Buddha activity, which is two words, right? Buddha activity. So that's another one. That's the most important thing now, because Buddha activity is practice enlightenment. So, like, you got a Buddha, okay? What you have when you have a Buddha is you have a practice. You don't have, like, a Buddha, and then another thing called a practice of a Buddha. You have a practicing Buddha, which we call intimacy, which we call zazen. So now we're using the language practice, practicing Buddha, or Buddha practice, Buddha activity. So that's the theme of the practice period,

[15:58]

and there's a class in Berkeley with the same title. And I mentioned in more than one place, and now in another place, that the yoga room, when they announced the classes there that I offer, the heading of all the classes for, like, a long time, the heading of the classes is Zen Meditation, and then there's a subtitle. And I often, they ask me for a subtitle for every class, and so I give a subtitle. But oftentimes, after I write the subtitle, I thought, oh yeah, Zen Meditation, and then the subtitle is what Zen Meditation is. So now we have Zen Meditation, Buddha Activity. Zen Meditation is Buddha Activity. And again, I need to make that the most important thing in my life, because some people are telling people

[16:59]

that Zen Meditation is something other than Buddha Activity. They think it's like, I don't know what, practicing concentration. By, you know, and not the way a Buddha does it, but the way a living being does it, like practicing concentration as though it didn't include the whole universe. So I would like to make the point that Zen Meditation, that the Zen Meditation we're trying to learn and practice is the way a Buddha is practicing. Trying to get that, you know, pull up that Dharma flag. That the practice we're doing is is Buddha practice,

[18:01]

Buddha activity. And by the way, that's what everybody is involved in all the time, even though they've never heard about it. Because what, what is Buddha activity? What is intimacy? What is Zazen? What is practice enlightenment? It is the same practice of all beings, and the same enlightenment of all beings. That's what that's what that's what's happening is what's happening is not just each individual person's practice, which we've got, we've got all the individual practices, and we also have the practice that they're all doing, which is the same practice. And

[19:03]

we have all the individual enlightenments or lack of enlightenments, but all those individual enlightenments and lack of enlightenments or delusions, all of them are the same enlightenment. There's not another enlightenment besides all of our enlightenments and all of our practices. There's one enlightenment which includes all of our enlightenments. Intimacy. All beings are intimate. And we have the opportunity to realize that, and the way we realize it is by practicing it. And we are practicing it, and we are realizing it, but at the same time we don't realize it because we don't practice it. But, so there,

[20:03]

that's the Buddha activity. It's the way we do include each other and the way we are included in each other. That way that we are is Buddha activity. I'll be right with you. Can you wait just a little bit? I'm sorry. I'm really sorry, and you can tell her I said so. I'm sorry that Linda Budowsky is not here today because Linda Budowsky asked me if I would talk about the vow that we chanted earlier. Hotsugamon means arousing the vow. Excuse me. It means, it means,

[21:06]

Hotsugamon means verse on arousing the vow. Hotsu is arousing, gam is vow, and mon is verse. It's a verse for arousing the vow. The vow of, guess what? Intimacy, yeah. The vow of practice enlightenment. So, she said, could we have some teaching about that? And I said, yeah. And then this morning another person asked for teachings and discussion of that verse which we just chanted. So, I'm sorry Linda's not here because she's going to miss it. Here it is. It's coming. I've already started to discuss it. Did you notice? I'm discussing it.

[22:07]

We're discussing it. And also, I was intending to discuss it two days ago at Green Gulch. And I mentioned, I discussed it to the extent that I mentioned that I wanted to discuss it. Do you remember me saying that? I said, I was intending to discuss but people are saying things to me which make me feel I have to say more about what? What? Buddha activity. Intimacy. I have to say more about Zazen, intimacy, Buddha activity. I've got to say more about it before we start talking about Ehekoso Hosogamon. That's what I felt

[23:10]

and that's what happened. So then we talked more about it. And I didn't feel bad about it, about that my plan to discuss it was postponed. It's okay with me. I don't mind talking about Buddha activity. And I did. And so next Thursday I intend to talk about it again. I don't know if I will but if I do I might mention that this chant arises in the context of Buddha activity. So it's good to hear teachings about Buddha activity before you read this chant. And you have. So that's good.

[24:11]

This chant's about how your practice and the shortcomings in your practice include all beings. And how your practice is included in all beings. This chant which we're discussing now is about how the practice of all beings pervades you and how your practice pervades all beings. And that way of mutual pervasion or pervading mutually pervading and being pervaded that activity is Buddha activity. And that's sort of what this ehe koso ho tsuka mon is about. It's the vow to realize that Buddha activity, to realize that intimacy.

[25:13]

And it also deals with if you excuse the expression the vicissitudes of that effort. The practice practice enlightenment does not exclude vicissitude does not exclude vexation affliction confusion fear disgust laziness distraction In other words excuse the expression get ready to not be surprised it includes everything. It includes the entire universe. It's not like it just includes the good part of the universe. It includes the whole thing. And I'm not going to say give all the words for the part of the universe that's not called the good universe. It includes everything. It includes all beings. What includes it?

[26:16]

The vow includes it. And Buddha activity includes all beings. Includes all beings of your own experience and all so-called other beings. We're all intimate with everything. It includes the whole works. It includes the whole works. Yes. The whole works includes the whole works. So yeah, so and also if any of you want to come to Green Gulch next Thursday for the Dharma event when we might discuss this text you're welcome to come to Green Gulch. At 7.30 we'll have a discussion of this text. And someone might think someone in this group now might think could we discuss it now?

[27:20]

And the answer is we are discussing it. Could we continue? Yes, we can. May we? Yes, we may. And also if you want to come to Green Gulch if you're in the neighborhood or if you want to come into the neighborhood in the dark but it won't be so dark next week because of that thing which they call daylight savings time it won't be so dark you can come in the light. But Zen practice is not just coming in the light it's also coming in the dark. Some people come to Zen for the light, fine. But Zen is not just coming in the light it's coming in the dark. And it's also not getting caught by the distinction between light and dark. But you already knew that, right?

[28:23]

We don't just have light. The light of Buddha's wisdom is a light which includes light and darkness. As I said there's lots of possibilities. There's even the possibility of a light that doesn't include darkness. That's another kind of light. It's a light that doesn't include dark. It's called the light of delusion. A light that doesn't include dark is a delusion light. And also the dark which doesn't include light is a delusion darkness. But there's also an enlightenment light which includes everything. Now to go through this text

[29:29]

which isn't very long could potentially take eons. And actually it probably will. But as you may have noticed or not you may have noticed or not that eons come in little tiny parcels of moments. It comes like in minutes and hours and days and weeks. Little tiny sections and even flashes of seconds. So in the eonic discussion of this teaching we have this little bit of discussion so far. And we could have more. Who here does not know who Ehe Koso is? Raise your hands.

[30:29]

Ehe Koso is also called Dogen. Ehe Dogen. Koso means and you know Chinese if you talk to a Soto Zen Japanese Soto Zen person they got a lot of feelings about the word Koso. And you know but for a foreigner like me a non-native Chinese speaker Koso is a character for high or lofty. And So is a character for ancestor. So it's the lofty ancestor Ehe Dogen. He wrote this poem. And also the original what he actually wrote I think one of the first places it appears is in a text called The Sound of the Valley Streams and the Color of the Mountains. So in that text

[31:36]

he starts he starts to he says this vow. And then the vow is extracted from the text and put together as a as a stand alone or not even stand alone as a as another manifestation of this presentation which in the original says I vow with all beings and so I changed it for this chant I changed it to we vow. But in the original it's I vow with all beings from this life on throughout countless lives. That's how it starts. All right. So some somebody says can we discuss that line by line? So here there's a line. We can discuss it. I vow. Let's discuss it.

[32:38]

I vow. Any questions about I vow? Ehe means well Ehe I don't know what Ehe means but it's translated into English as eternal peace. Now you can ask what does eternal peace mean? Right! I didn't ask you but I said you could ask but you didn't you answered the question. That's okay. It's all right. Wait a second. We just had eternal peace there just a second. Yeah but the beginning of it is Ehe. That's the beginning. I know but then but then she said I know but then she went back to the previous line which was Ehe eternal peace.

[33:40]

Okay we got eternal peace which is I didn't I didn't mean for her to answer but she answered correctly. Eternal peace is intimacy. Are you interested in that? No. Okay. We have this person I and vow. We have this person. Here she is. And we're intimate with her and she does not want to talk about No I'm intimate with these two words I and vow. All she wants to do is talk about I and vow. I and vow. And we're and she's So I'm questioning what is I Yeah. Hey. And You're questioning wait a second what is I? What is I? Let's do it. Let's do it. What is the vow that the I is doing it? Wait a second. You said first of all what's the I? Yes. Okay. Before we move on

[34:41]

let's just deal with that okay? Okay. What's the I? You want to deal with it. You want to go deep right? Yes. Deep into deep into the first word. The I. Forget about eternal peace. We just want to study the I. [...] Let's go deep. Yes. All right. Okay. How deep was that? You know you don't know do you know by any chance a group called the BG's? Yes, I've heard of them. They have a song How Deep Does It Go? How deep how deep have we gone into what is this I? Yes. Let's go deep rather. Wait a second. I asked you, I asked you, okay, but how deep, how deep, how deep is not deep enough? Then the BG says, how deep does your love go? It has to go deep enough that I will not have countless lives.

[35:46]

It has to go so deep that there's no countless lives. It's just this one life, this is it. Guess what, Homa? Yes. Guess. I'm not guessing. I don't want to guess. I want to know. Yes. I order you to guess. It's an order. I don't very often give orders, but in this case, I'm ordering you to guess. Okay. Guess what? What? No, no. I already guessed, but now I'm asking you to guess. What am I guessing? I don't know what I'm guessing. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Guess. Make a guess. I make a guess of what is an I. No, no. Anyway, you said something about the deep I is the I where there's not going to be countless lives. Yes. Didn't you say that? Yes, yes. Okay, once again, Homa says the deep I is the I where there's not countless lives.

[36:47]

That's what Homa said, right? The real I. By the way, is the real I like the deep I? Yes. So for Homa, the deep I, it has to be so deep that it's real. Yes. And the deep real I doesn't have countless lives. It has no time. And then I say to Homa, guess what? What? Okay, what? What? So that's her answer to guess what is what. Okay, Patrick, guess what? Huh? I. I. I am the world honored one. I am the world honored one. These are all words. No. These are all just... Wait a second. You didn't guess. You missed your chance. So I asked her to guess. She didn't want to guess. She just said, what? That's fine. It's a perfectly good guess, what?

[37:49]

And that's... What I was going to ask her to guess is that I agreed with her. I agree that the deep I doesn't have countless lives. The real I doesn't have countless lives. I agree with that. But she missed that answer. I gave her a chance to see that I agreed with what she thought. But she just said, what? Now, the profound I also includes what? And the profound I includes, includes countless lives. However, it doesn't have countless lives. Just like you... I started to say confusion. Confusion. Yeah, confusion. That's not on the list here. We're talking about I now. I was listening and then from my listening I got lost.

[38:54]

I got confused. Yeah, well, I. We're talking about I, the first word, I. And, you know, somehow you got into depth and the depth you got into I agree with, that the I does not have countless lives. It also doesn't even have one life. It doesn't have anything. Also, the I that does have things... What about that I? The I that has things? Well, there's no such I. I's don't have things. Now, I's do live in the neighborhood where there is the idea of having things. And that neighborhood is called I consciousness.

[39:54]

But that's a little bit difficult when you say that because people might think it's spelled E-Y-I because there's an E-Y-I consciousness. But self-consciousness is where the I lives. And in the self-consciousness, which is also called some other names, like what? Huh? Ego. Louder. Sorrow. No, it's called ego consciousness. It's called... Karmic consciousness. Karmic consciousness. So, the place, the neighborhood, where the I lives is called ego consciousness, self-consciousness, deluded consciousness, deceptive consciousness. Huh? Mind consciousness? No, not mind consciousness. No. Uh-uh. Did you say conventional consciousness? You could say conventional, yeah. Anyway, where the I lives,

[40:57]

there's the idea of having something. And there's also the idea that the I has something. Like the I has a life. The I has a baby. The I has a practice. There's that idea. How did this idea came into being? Pardon? How did this idea came into being? Why did... How did it come? Why did it come? How did karmic consciousness come into being? Can I ask that question too? Yes, yes, yes. Okay, okay. How did it come into being? Yeah. So, now, that would be getting into the theories of the evolution of consciousness. And I think that that would be good to postpone that discussion because we're now studying the situation. And to get into its evolution I think would distract us from going deep. Yeah, that makes sense. Can I say something to her?

[41:58]

Just a second. I wonder, is it okay if Jackie said something to you? I think so. Okay. So, being an Iranian... Yeah. We have some Iranian people here. I see a lot of your Iranian DNA, karmic consciousness come forth. I'm sorry. I'm not Iranian. I don't have a country. I really mean it. From where you were born. It doesn't matter. I don't think this... I don't think where I was born... Okay, I think that's enough of that stuff. Okay, you guys can duke it out later. So, we have the first word in the original is I. And the I is not really existent, and it's not really non-existent. But if you don't have a sense of I,

[43:00]

if there's not this phenomena called I in the mind, we don't have consciousness. We do have consciousness, so we have the sense of I, and one of the things that is closely associated with I is the idea of owning other things that are going on in consciousness, and that the I owns things. That's part of the deal. Thank you, because that's why then it says the next step we shall renounce worldly affairs. Okay. So, we can say I vow, and we can have the thought I and the vow, and we can have the thought the I does the vow. But that's three things. I vow and does the vow.

[44:02]

I does the vow. Whereas actually, and then put them together into a sentence, which is the one that can be defined as delusion, that has been defined as delusion, the thought I do the vow, I have the vow, I practice the vow. So that's a little delusion in the consciousness. But you don't have to read it that way. You can read I vow. So you have I, and in the neighborhood of I you have a vow. You don't have to say I do the vow. But you might think when you say I vow, that you might think, oh, I do the vow, rather than I lives where there's vow. And looking at that relationship, where there's I, vow,

[45:05]

and then the idea that the I does the vow, looking at that, I would think would promote realization of intimacy. In other words, you can see I and vow are intimate. But in intimacy, it isn't that this side does that side, and that side doesn't do this side. That's not intimate. Right? So the deep... Anyway, the intimacy of the situation is I, vow, and they don't really do each other, but the vow includes the I, and I includes the vow, but the I doesn't have the vow, and the vow doesn't have the I. They live together in this particular bodhisattva ancestor. In him, there is an I,

[46:08]

it's not been eliminated, and there's a vow. They live together intimately, just like some other things live together intimately, like practice and realization. It isn't that the practice owns the realization, or that the realization owns the practice. They arise together all the time, and self arises together with the vow, if there's a vow. And vows arise together with the self, if there's a self. And vows do not only arise in karmic consciousness. Vows arise where there is no self, too. But then there's intimacy with vows and no self. That's also possible. A lot of possibilities,

[47:09]

pretty much unlimited possibilities. But to open to and realize the limitlessness, we have to deal with the limited. And the karmic consciousness, the self-consciousness, is a limitation land. And the I is a limitation, and the vow is a limitation, and they're intimate with each other, and that intimacy is unlimited. Yes? I think you started saying that the title of this was something about a verse for arousing the vow, or... You could say the verse for arousing the vow, or you could just say verse arousing the vow. So it's both for the sake of arousing it, but also it is... This verse is arousing the vow.

[48:12]

Arousing the vow is this verse. It makes it sound like the vow isn't there sometimes, and then it is there at other times. No, I think that the vow... The verse to arouse the vow sounds a little bit like there is a vow sometimes and not other times. But the verse which is the arousing is no other time. The verse is the arousing. And arousing is the verse. Not another time. It's right now. In other words, it's not in countless lives. There's no coming and no going. And there's... Yeah, right. Yeah. So, here we are dealing with I. Yes, Justin? I was going to say, could you say that when you say I vow, you're being acted upon by the vow?

[49:15]

Could you say that you're being acted upon by the vow? You could say that at the time of saying I vow, that you, the person who says I... Because you're not just the word I. You're a person who says I, who has a sense of I. So you are being acted upon by the vow, plus also the I, the word I, and the I in your mind, they're all acted upon by the vow. But also, you and your I are acting upon the vow. It's intimacy. Intimacy. Intimacy takes the form of I vow, and also intimacy takes the form of I don't vow. And intimacy takes the form of thanks for coming to this Dharma talk. And thanks for coming to this Dharma talk

[50:22]

is practice, realization, at this time. So when you said we lack in faith, what I understood when you were speaking was that... Nor we lack in faith. When you were speaking, what I understood from faith, which I didn't understand the word faith before, but it was more like nor you lack attention. So you are, you are, you are. Could I say something? I kind of feel like you said you wanted to go through line by line, but you're jumping around now. So, you know, be careful, please. Because you said you wanted to go through line by line. But it is so that... You forgot to mention that when you hear the true Dharma,

[51:22]

you will not lack in faith. When you see the Dharma, you'll believe the Dharma. Before you see it, you may have some struggles with, you know... Before you see intimacy, before intimacy is realized, you may have sometimes some doubt about it. Like... Don't we sometimes have doubt about intimacy in some situations? Like we think, I'm... I'm... Yeah, I guess I... I find myself resisting this person and in that resistance to this person, yeah, I guess I feel like the realization of intimacy could be deeper. I don't... I feel some lack of faith in intimacy with this person. I feel some lack of readiness to give my life to this person.

[52:26]

Hmm, yeah. I guess I don't really believe in intimacy. I mean, I don't feel like I believe it as deeply as I might possibly believe in it. I'm a little bit... My realization of intimacy... I see some work to be done here. And... I also understand the teaching saying that at the moment you feel that there's a lack in your faith that intimacy is there. But still it's good to say, I feel cold, I feel hot, I feel a lack of intimacy. And I'm sorry that I feel a lack of... Wait a second. I'm sorry that I got distracted from the intimacy at the moment that I felt a lack of intimacy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I got distracted from what is most important to me, which is intimacy,

[53:28]

which is practice realization. I got a little distracted. I'm sorry. Didn't have to be distracted, but I was. And now I see that my distraction really was unreal. The practice realization was totally here, I was totally with it, but I got distracted. I'm sorry. So... I... vow... to hear the true Dharma. Hmm? I vow, with all beings, to hear the true Dharma. And... And then there can be like, yes, that's so. There is a vow to hear the true Dharma with all beings. Mm-hmm.

[54:31]

Before I get into all the good things that would happen, all the wonderful benefits and blessings that come with hearing the true Dharma, before I get into that, this is the vow that I live with. Now you could say, part of the reason I vow that is because I've heard that upon hearing it, there will be no doubt or lack of faith. And because of faith and the lack of doubt, I hear the true Dharma. So they kind of go together. The hearing the Dharma and... the lack of doubt and the presence of faith, they're kind of going together. So here we are at the faith-doubt in relationship with hearing the Dharma. Do you have to have no doubt

[55:39]

in order to hear? Do you have to have hearing in order to have no doubt? They're kind of closely related, the hearing and the no doubt. So, I vow to hear the true Dharma. I vow to have no lack of faith and doubt. I vow. So, in a way, that's my goal, is to hear the Dharma, the true Dharma, and to have no lack of faith and have no doubt. That's my goal. And... the Dharma is the intimacy of the way I am now and

[56:40]

no lack of faith and no doubt. The Dharma which I vow to hear is that there's no real separation between my present state and the state of hearing the true Dharma. I have a request of you, that you take a break on making comments during my talks at this time. You're talking a little bit too much for me. Raise your hand if you want to talk. That's what everybody else is doing. Okay? Is that okay? So, here we have, we're looking at this text, I vow... What? I vow to hear the true Dharma. I vow to hear the true Dharma. And the Dharma which I vow to hear is that how I am now

[57:43]

in the present is not... there's no real distinction between the way I am now and hearing the true Dharma. What I vow to hear says there's no distinction between hearing it and the way I am now. And there's no distinction between my present faith and no lack of faith. Even... And also I have doubts and there's no... I'm not going to... The Dharma isn't... The Dharma is not being stuck in the distinction between having doubt and no doubt. So, I vow to hear the true Dharma and in hearing the true Dharma I won't have doubt. Which means I won't be caught in the distinction between doubt and no doubt. Yes.

[58:44]

It seems that way to you. And I have this thought that the Dharma is the lack of a link. Because a link builds up that they're separate. Is it like... I'm hearing it as I vow not to turn away from whatever's happening in the present. I vow to not turn away. Yes. I vow to not turn away from the present. I vow...

[59:50]

I vow to not turn away from intimacy. Oh, I vow to turn away. But also I vow to turn away from intimacy is also intimacy. Realizing it is realizing intimacy. But they're intimate before you realize it. They're already intimate. So, there's intimacy and then there's realizing it. So, the vow is to realize it. The Dharma is the way things actually are. Namely, our present state and that which we aspire to, there's no place to get stuck there between the two. But we somehow magically think we are stuck between the two. And accepting that

[60:55]

is compatible with realizing not being stuck in that. So, this is the first couple words of this text. Yes? I keep having this image of the merry-go-round and the playground where we have all of these ideas out on the surface and I'm traveling really fast and if we're out of the circumference we get kind of a thrill and we get thrown off and we get frustrated. I'm having trouble kind of getting to the center where it's still, you know, that everything's turning around. You're having trouble getting to the center? At that still point that all of these ideas are spinning around. You're having trouble getting there? I think that part of the reason you're having trouble getting there is that you're not understanding that you're already there.

[61:55]

So, it might be helpful to just forget about getting there and hear the teaching that that's where you are. And from the teaching that that's where you are see if you can remember that when things start spinning. Yes? I'm thinking about doubt. You're thinking about doubt? Could you speak up please? I'm thinking about doubt. Are you saying that the way to deal with doubt is to open up? Just open up the doubt? Am I saying that the way?

[62:58]

I would say a way to practice with doubt is to open to the doubt. To be compassionate to the doubt. That would be... Basically, I would I would like as a standard as a well established practice when there's doubt, open to it. Opening to the doubt might be very helpful in realizing intimacy. Yes? I'm wondering if doubt includes forgetting. Well, in a way I sometimes think well, if I really believed in something I would never forget it. So, in some sense when we forget

[64:01]

what we forget was most important in a way that's kind of like doubt. Like, if you really thought it was that important you'd never forget it. So, in a way, yeah, it's possible that you have a faith that was so strong that you'd never forget. But another way to put it is that the faith is not forgetting. That when you're not forgetting that is the faith. And that doubt is not really forgetting the faith. Doubt is doubt. And that they live together. That the doubt and the faith are intimate. And when you have faith you don't have doubt. Except that it's right there. So your faith includes doubt. And not just doubt, but a wide variety

[65:02]

of doubts. Your faith may be kind of like basically one thing, which has several names. maybe the doubt is actually just one thing too, which has several names. So the faith includes the doubt, the doubt includes the faith. They live together in intimacy. And we switch from faith to doubt. And then there's a practice, and then we sometimes remember that we trust the practice of opening both in faith and in doubt. And if we remember opening to doubt we've just exercised our faith. And you could say when we don't open to faith or when we don't open to doubt we've just exercised doubt. So doubt

[66:04]

basically exercises close down. Time to close down life. Okay. Time to close down this relationship. Okay. Time to call the conversation off. Okay. Time to forget about intimacy. In other words, I doubt intimacy is really that cool. So we're not going to have intimacy now. We're going to have control. I'm going to... I tried to be intimate with these people but they just didn't behave very well. So then I switched back to not intimacy. And I'm going to get them to behave well. That means I doubt intimacy. I think I doubted intimacy. I went for controlling these people into being good. I forsook intimacy for the sake of getting them

[67:08]

to be on the right track. I doubted intimacy. And now I see that and I'm sorry and now I'm going to go back and give intimacy another chance. I do believe in intimacy. I do believe in opening to my life, not closing it down. But I got scared and you know, and I forgot to open to the fear. I forgot. When I got afraid I forgot intimacy and switched to non-intimacy, which of course I know is an illusion but I did fall into that pit and switched from being with this suffering to kind of making the suffering go away or reducing it or whatever. Something other than intimacy. And I know

[68:08]

a lot of parents of teenagers who are struggling with this. They've got these teenage children who are doing who are doing things and there's an omnipresent danger of them hurting themselves or others. A simple example, you know, would be like, got a teenager and they've got homework and it is somewhat important that they do their homework or that they learn, you know, how to do a term paper. It's important. But I say, for me, my faith is in intimacy. And if we realize intimacy with this person who's working on the term paper, that's what's

[69:10]

important. Important. And intimacy is not to control them into writing the paper, it's not to write the paper for them, but to be there with them and don't do anything other than be intimate with them. Because the intimacy is what's going to help them after they do or do not finish their homework. Intimacy is what they're having a problem with and that's what you can teach them. But you have to be with them while they're doing this stuff, to show them that you value intimacy with them most and you're there to support them while they do various things, which are important. But all those things are temporary and all those things will be gone

[70:11]

in a few minutes or a few days or a few weeks and they'll be moved on to other things. But the intimacy will be there in every case and that's what somebody needs to teach them. And if they learn that, then as you scroll through all these activities, they'll be fine if they learn intimacy. And if they don't, even if these things on the list that they're involved in are fairly nice, well, it's a tragedy if they don't learn intimacy. Even if they, you know, are healthy and good-looking and happy and if they don't learn intimacy, they're deep down missing their life. But on the other hand,

[71:12]

if they're flunking out of school or taking drugs and you're there teaching them intimacy, you're teaching them what's important. And they may have to go through all this stuff. They may have to go through all this stuff to learn intimacy. And intimacy is not saying you're not supposed to go through this stuff. You're not supposed to go through this stuff is the stuff you're supposed to go through. That kind of talk is part of what you have to go through. So, or you are supposed to go through this stuff is also part of what you're going through. Is that clear? No? I'm talking to you now and I'm saying you have to go through this stuff.

[72:14]

That talk is temporary. I'm not going to keep saying that for countless lives. But right now I'm saying it. And if you if you listen to me or not, that's also temporary. And after you're done listening to me, if you learned intimacy, you'll be fine. If you don't listen to me and you learn intimacy, fine. After you do what I ask you to do, or don't do what I ask you to, if you learn intimacy, you're fine. If you get good grades and you learn intimacy, you're fine. If you flunk out and you learn intimacy, you're fine. Zen is not about getting good grades and it's not about flunking out. It's about being intimate

[73:21]

with whatever. Which includes, in order to realize intimacy, some people have to flunk out. And also, in order to realize intimacy, some people have to get good grades. Different people have to go through different stuff to realize what's important. It's not what they go through. It's the realization of I and hearing the true Dharma. It's that. And, yeah. And this is very subtle and very simple. For me, because for me the most important thing is to hear the true Dharma wherein there's no

[74:24]

lack of faith, there's no lack of faith, and there's no doubt. Which means, to me, there's no faith without doubt. When there's no faith without doubt, there's no lack of faith and there's no doubt. Because there's no doubt aside from faith. That's the kind of no doubt there is. And if I forget, that's what this text is about. Maybe we'll go on. The text is about when I forget the faith. When I forget that

[75:27]

practicing intimacy and realizing intimacy are the same thing. The intimacy is already there. I'm intimate with my children. I'm intimate with my friends. I'm intimate with my enemies. The intimacy is already there. But if I don't practice it, what's already here, I don't realize it. But if I do practice it, that is the realization, because it's already here. And the practice is already here too, because there are two. There's not realization before the practice or practice before the realization. That's intimacy. I had this dream just now

[76:49]

that you all understood me perfectly.

[76:52]

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