You are currently logged-out. You can log-in or create an account to see more talks, save favorites, and more.

2003.02.19-serial.00166

00:00
00:00
Audio loading...
Serial: 
SO-00166

AI Suggested Keywords:

AI Summary: 

The talk explores the lineage and historical narratives surrounding key figures in Chinese Zen Buddhism, particularly focusing on the legitimacy and myth surrounding the Sixth Ancestor, Huineng. It discusses how these stories, while potentially fictional, serve to convey deeper truths about Zen practice. Notable figures include Dogen, who reflected on the universality and purity of Zen practice amid varying interpretations of enlightenment within different lineages and the importance of understanding Zen teachings beyond story authenticity. The talk also touches upon the teachings and legacies of prominent Zen masters including Keizan Jokin, Baso (Mazu), and their influence on Zen traditions such as Rinzai.

Referenced Texts and Works:
- Denkōroku (Transmission of Light) by Keizan Jokin: A series of lectures on enlightenment stories within the Soto lineage from Shakyamuni Buddha to Keizan's teacher's teacher.
- Shōbōgenzō Gyoji by Dogen: Highlights the collection of teachings from various Zen masters, emphasizing the shared practice beyond distinct enlightenment styles.
- Platform Sutra: Discusses Huineng's enlightenment and the mythical poem competition, illustrating sudden enlightenment's conceptual development.
- The Record of Transmitting the Light (Dharma Lamp Records): Collection of stories believed to have been fictitiously embellished over time, used to convey Zen principles.

Key Figures:
- Huineng (Sixth Ancestor): Subject of legendary Zen stories illustrating sudden enlightenment and lineage legitimacy within the Zen tradition.
- Keizan Jokin: Fourth generation Soto Zen master who contributed to the recorded history of enlightenment transmission in his talks.
- Baso (Mazu Daoyi): Prominent Zen master known for his teachings on Zen practice and community work, influencing later traditions like Rinzai.
- Ungan Donjo: Teacher attributed with transmitting the Dharma to Tozan, founding the Soto Zen lineage in China.

These readings and figures underscore the talk’s examination of Zen history as a narrative intertwined with both fictional elements and profound philosophical insights.

AI Suggested Title: Zen Legends: Myths and Truths

Is This AI Summary Helpful?
Your vote will be used to help train our summarizer!
Photos: 
Transcript: 

Good afternoon. If you have the only English version copy, page 6, the Six Ancestors Three Nen, or in Japanese, Rokuso Eno. This morning I talked on the three people, Shakyamuni Buddha and Mahakasyapa and the Venerable Side. Those are three Indian examples of continuous practice. And from here, I think all of them are Chinese, Chinese masters. fourth generation Soto Zen master after Dogen whose name was Keizan Jokin he not wrote but he gave a series of talks on the enlightenment stories of our lineage from of course Shakyamuni to his

[01:38]

teacher's teacher, Koun Ejo. Koun Ejo was Dogen's major disciple. In that lecture, series of lecture was recorded and make a book, and the title of the book was Denkouroku, or Transmission, the Light. And there are a few English translations, so you may have already read it, the text. In that text, Keizan focused on enlightenment, transmission of this lamp of enlightenment in each generation. Only in our lineage, Soto lineage, from Shakyamuni to Keizan's teacher's teacher, You know, this Shobo Genzo Gyoji is a kind of a collection of masters, three Indian and other, about 20 Chinese masters practice.

[02:52]

Dogen doesn't focus on our lineage. He picks the example from different lineages. And his focus is not enlightenment, but practice. About the style of practice or about the idea of enlightenment, there are some different styles or different ideas. That was how three schools were formed in Chinese Zen. But I think what Dogen tried to show us in this Shobo Genzo Gyoji even though their idea or their style are different, but the practice is the same. I think that is the point of this writing.

[03:54]

So he picked up from different lineages in Chinese Zen. And first person he talks about is Rokuso Eno, or the sixth ancestor Huineng. This person, Eno or Huinnan, lived from 638 to 713. According to the story, Bodhidharma came from India to China 527. So this person, Eno or Huinnan, was about 100 years after Bodhidharma. And during this 100 years, according to the Traditional Zen history, there were five generations, Bodhidharma, Taiso, Eka, or Hyuiko, and Sosan.

[05:11]

The fourth ancestor was Doshin, and the fifth was Konin, and the sixth was Eno, or Huinan. But these days, scholars, Zen scholars, they doubt everything. That is their job. So they doubt everything. And this lineage might be not true. And I guess that is true. I mean... A friend of mine is a professor. He teaches Chinese Zen. His name was Joe McRae. His first principle is, since it is not true, it is important. So this lineage is not really true, at least until the sixth ancestor, or maybe several generations after this Huinan.

[06:28]

Actually, it was made around the time, I think, 9th to 10th century. After the five schools have established, they made their own history. Please. You say that this is not true, of course. So what do you think the reason for the civil-wide choice of the Weebangs and the first Chinese people, the sick man, that they're having such an important place is ? I'm not sure. I'm not a scholar.

[07:32]

He lived. He was a very quiet person. He was not so well-known. But his students made him well-known. friend, you know, in the assembly or lineage of the fifth ancestor, you know, the Huinan's opponent in the common story, Jinshu, or I forget the Chinese pronunciation, but Jinshu, the person who composed the verse of Polishing the Mirror. he was much more well-known at that time than they lived. And Eno or Huignan lived very remote from the center of China. So not many people knew him. He was there.

[08:34]

He existed. He taught. But Shuinan was not so well-known, popular teacher, at least not nationwide popular teacher. He was not. But the Jinshu's lineage, now we call the lineage Northern school. And we think, not we, but traditionally, it said Northern school put emphasis on gradual enlightenment, and Southern school or Hunan school put emphasis on sudden enlightenment. But this is a kind of story made up by one of the Huinan's disciples, whose name was Jinnei. And I don't remember Chinese pronunciation. In Japanese, we pronounce his name Jinnei.

[09:44]

You know, Jinshu was a teacher of the emperor, so he was really established a Zen teacher in the capital. And this person, Jinne, was very young when Huinan died. But later he went to the capital and made a campaign that Eno was a legitimate successor of the fifth ancestor. So Eno is the sixth ancestor. Jinshu was not. That's why he made this story of Dharma competition. So this is a story. we don't need to believe it. If we need to believe it, it's a really strange thing. You know, here is a platform sutra. This is a record or so-called record of Huineng's sayings.

[10:53]

And let me try to read the story. I think you know the competition of the poems, so I try to read after that. You know, when Jin Xu wrote his poem about our body is a tree of awakening, and our mind is a bright mirror. So we should always polish the mirror, not to allow the dust on the mirror.

[11:56]

And Eno wrote his own poem, but in this text there are two different versions. This is the oldest version of the Platon Sutra, translated by Filip Janpolski. He said, the mind in the body tree, not the first one, body or awakening, originally has no tree. And the mirror also has no stand. So there's no mirror. Buddha nature is always clean and pure. Where is the room for dust? So there is no dust. That is Huinan's poem. Or another poem is, the mind is the body tree. The body is a mirror stand. The mirror is originally clean and pure. Where can it be stained by dust?

[13:00]

So anyway, there's no dust, no mirror. That is what Huina is saying. And after that, this is the story, you know, Huina himself is talking about his life, his experiences. The followers in the temple were all amazed when they heard my verse. Then I returned to the threshing room. The fifth patriarch realized that I had a splendid understanding of the cardinal meaning. You know, he said, Huinan is talking about himself. Usually, you know, people don't say about themselves in this way. Being afraid lest the assembly know this, he said to them, this is still not complete understanding.

[14:07]

At midnight, the fifth patriarch called me into the hall and expounded the Diamond Sutra. to me, hearing it but once, I was immediately awakened. And that night, I received the Dharma. None of the others knew anything about it. Then he transmitted to me the dharma of sudden enlightenment and the robe saying, I make you the sixth patriarch. The robe is the proof and is to be handed down from generation to generation. My dharma must be transmitted from mind to mind.

[15:11]

You must make people awaken to themselves." This is what the fifth ancestor said to Hui Nam. Then the fifth patriarch told me, From ancient times, the transmission of the Dharma has been as tenuous as a dangling thread. If you stay here, there are people who will harm you. You must leave at once. I don't believe this. In a Buddhist Sangha, if someone receives dharma transmission, other people harm that person. I cannot believe this. But no one said that thing didn't happen. But somehow, that's why he, I mean, let me read the following.

[16:17]

I set out at midnight, so Huynan escaped from the sangha with the robe and the dharma. The Fifth Patriarch saw me as far as Chui Chuan Station. So Fifth Patriarch went together with Hui Nan until a certain place. I was instantly enlightened. So he enlightened at least three times. Instantly. The Fifth Patriarch instructed me Leave work hard. Take the Dharma with you to the south. For three years, do not spread the teaching or else calamity will befall the Dharma. That means there's some, you know, fighting will occur.

[17:25]

Later, work to convert people you must guide deluded persons well. If you are able to awaken another's mind, he will be no different from me. After completing my leaving taking, I set out for the South." So he has run away from the monastery to the South. And after about two months, I reached Taiyuanlin, that's a high mountain. Unknown to me, several hundred men were following behind, several hundred, wishing to try to kill me and to steal my robe and dharma. I don't believe this. By the time I had gone halfway up the mountain, they had all turned back.

[18:32]

But there was one monk of the family name of Chen, whose personal name was Hui Ming. Formerly, he had been a general of the third rank, and he was by nature and conduct coarse and violent. Reaching the top of the mountain, he caught up with me and threatened me. I handed over the dharma robe, but he was not willing to take it. He said, I have come this long distance just to seek the dharma. I have no need for the robe." So this person changed his mind. Then on top of the mountain, I transmitted the dharma to Hui Ming.

[19:33]

So there's another dharma transmission happened on the mountain. Fu, when he heard it, was at once enlightened. I then ordered him to return to the north and to convert people there. Huinan hid himself somewhere. you know, didn't appear for several years. And once he visited a temple in the south, there was a kind of ceremony, and two monks were discussing, seeing a banner. temple banner, whether the banner is moving or the wind is moving.

[20:38]

Hearing this discussion, Huinan just had a discussion and Huinan said, neither wind nor banner is moving, your mind is moving. And people admired this, you know, he was still a layperson, admired this layperson and asked who he was. And anyway, finally Huina was ordained by the priest of this temple and became a monk. And he started to teach in that area. That was the story. but I don't think this is really a true story. And, you know, this is a very kind of an early version of the story. Later, it becomes more and more interesting and dramatic, like a movie.

[21:44]

So, you know, Chinese people are... like to express their idea or thought by making stories, not in a logical, philosophical way like Indian Abhidharma scholars. So all them people did was making stories. And certain stories, if it was interesting, became more and more interesting, something added later. And, you know, after the 11th century, those interesting stories were collected and made a collection of those stories. That is so-called a record of Dharma lamps. you know, they didn't have a tape recorder. But all the conversation between so many people in the record of Dharma Lamp, Ketogden Todok said there are 1700 people

[22:54]

Yes, 1,700 people and many more stories in there. And there's no, you know, without tape recorder, who listened to, who had those, you know, conversations. I don't think, you know, people who made such conversation, you know, recorded by themselves. So these are all made-up stories, so you don't need to believe it. If it's interesting and if it's helpful for us to study and understand Dharma, we can use it. And it has been used in that way. Please. Do you believe in sudden enlightenment? Sudden enlightenment? Yeah, I think it's possible for some people, not to me. Yes. Anyway, there are, you know, many interesting stories about those Chinese Zen masters.

[24:03]

And if I start to talk on this one person, you know, it takes more than one hour. So I just try to read what Dogen is writing here. And I talk if necessary. So if you have some questions, you know, please give me. You can give me any time, please. Please disturb me. Honestly speaking, before this session started, I didn't have time to prepare this lecture. Yeah, questions are always welcome. I finished translation about one week before this session, so I didn't have time to prepare the lecture, so I have nothing to say.

[25:09]

I'm thinking. Okay, let me continue to read. The sixth ancestor Huinan, or Eno, was a woodcutter in Shinshu province. According to the bio story, his father was a government official in the capital, but somehow he was involved in some problems and he was exiled to the south. And his father died when Huinan was very young. So he was raised by his mother. And after he grown up, he supported his mother by working as a woodcutter. And when he was selling the wood in the town, someone bought a bundle of wood, and he delivered the wood to kind of an inn or a lodge.

[26:19]

Someone was chanting the Diamond Sutra. That was the time he had the first sudden enlightenment. And he immediately visited the fifth ancestor to join the monastery. So he was a Udukata in Shinshu province. We cannot say he was a well-educated person. According to the story, he couldn't read any characters. He never studied anything, but somehow he understands everything. So this is a kind of ideal image of Zen masters for Chinese people. No nothing, no knowledge, but deep insight. Ever since he had lost his father in his childhood, he had been raised by his mother,

[27:27]

He made a living from woodcutting in order to support his mother. After hearing a phrase of a sutra on a crossroad, he immediately left his mother and sought after the great Dharma. Dogen Zenji valued this person. He was a great vessel of Dharma, rare in many generations, and that was a preeminent practice of the way. Then Dogen said, even if we consider cutting one's arm, as Eka Wahyuiko did, were easy, this abandoning beloved mother by Eno Wahyuinen must have been extremely difficult.

[28:39]

Discarding his debt of parental love had not been done lightly. So Dogen said, you know, Eka or the second ancestor of China visited Bodhidharma sitting in the cave of Shaolin temple in the snow. Bodhidharma didn't even pay attention to that person. So he was sitting in the snow until midnight. or later, after midnight Bodhidharma came and tell something. And Shuriko asked Bodhidharma to teach and help deluded beings. But Bodhidharma said, you should not seek the great Dharma with, I think the word in the story is, light-minded.

[29:46]

without serious, you know, determination. So in order to show his determination, he cut off his arm and show it to Bodhidharma. This is also a story. All the, according to the older texts, Heko or Eka cut his arm by Bandit or something. Bandit, the thief, not by himself. You know, Chinese people really like making stories. Anyway, even if that story was true, and even if Eka or Heiko cut his arm to show his, you know, determination, Dogen is saying to leave his mother was much more difficult, you know, for Hinam.

[30:58]

to cut off the bandage of family, especially in China. What do you say in English? Yes. It's the most important virtue of all people. And Buddhism was often criticized by Confucianists that Buddhism forced people to cut off the bandage of family time and encourage people to left home. That was against of the common Chinese social ethics. so they need to make some how can i say excuse i mean it's not excuse but some chinese buddhists create some some theory you know to leave home and practice buddha way is the way to help

[32:26]

their family. And there's one saying that if one person left home and became a Buddhist monk and attained enlightenment, the nine generations of the family will be saved. It's a kind of excuse. Anyway, so Dogen's saying to leave the family, especially, you know, he was the only son and his mother was depend, rely on his work, his job as a woodcutter. So it must be very difficult. And later, in the later story, the Platon Sutra, it said the person who bought the wood gave him money to support his mother. So he gave that money with his mother, and he left.

[33:31]

This is another compliment. Anyway, he joined the assembly at Obai, or Xianmei. Obai is the name of the place or mountain where the monastery of the fifth ancestor is located. and pounded rice days and nights for eight months without resting or sleeping. So after he joined the monastery, before he was ordained, he practiced as a layperson. And his job was pounding rice in a mill. And for, it said, for eight months, he was just working. He was still a worker there. In the middle of a night, he correctly transmitted the fifth ancestor's robe and bowl.

[34:44]

So Dogen omitted that story. And after attaining the Dharma, he wondered carrying the stone mill on his back. and continued to pound the rice for eight years. I don't think this is true. And Fat Dogen is saying, you know, he was pounding the rice with a stone mill at his ancestor's monastery. And when he received Dharma transmission, he escaped from the stone mill with the stone mill and keep pounding the rice. Of course, this is Dogen's expression that he continued to work hard as he did as a layperson at his teacher's monastery. And even when he became an abbot of a monastery and expounding the Dharma,

[35:54]

to guide people, he never put aside the stone meal. So he always carried the stone meal and pounding the rice. That was his practice. That's what Dogen is saying. This was a rare example of continuous practice in the world. So Dogen Zenji valued these six ancestors very much. And next one is, any question? Please. I understand that you don't believe those things. Yes, I'm interested to know how you believe everything about those things. You believe that everything those things say? Me? Yeah. No. No? I don't think, you know, carry the stone with you. I trust his teaching.

[37:05]

I trust his teaching, but I don't believe everything he said. You know, he's an ordinary person, so he made mistakes. He could make mistakes. He didn't make it. He didn't make this story. He used the story made before him. Yeah, Dogen Zenji, I think, believed the story. Yeah. I think. Maybe not. Okay. Please. Pardon me? And then we have teachings that we sort of believe. And could you just say something about how you go along, how it factors with the stories that mean something, but they're not really true, but I keep telling them over and over.

[38:14]

Well, I think we need to understand the meaning of the story. The story itself is not true. It's like a movie or a TV show. It's like a movie. But movie can tell us something true, even though the story itself is fiction. We need to understand the person who made the story wanted to tell us, I think, and why such people wanted to make such stories, I think. If that is helpful for our practice, as I said, we can use it. Any other question? Okay, let me go to next one. Kosei baso, or baso doitsu, or in Chinese, mazu daoi.

[39:30]

batho lived 709 to 788 so another after let's see 50 years after hinan death or so batho was uh a disciple of Nangaku Ejo. Nangaku Ejo was another disciple of Huinan, so two generations after the six ancestors. And Basso was a very great master. this might be interesting. The contemporary of Basso was in our lineage was Sekito Kisen. Sekito Kisen was the master who wrote Sandokai. And those two are very well-known popular dentists at the time.

[40:37]

And yet, you know, those two are kind of a very... opposite style. They had the opposite style. Basho was a great master. And he had many students. And according to the record of transmission of Dharma lamp, he had, I think about 80 Dharma successors, 80. And after, you know, under Sekito Kisen, only several Well, here is the chart of lean ages. I think you know this chart made by Andy Ferguson. This is Vaso and this is Sekito.

[41:42]

And those 13 people are Vaso's dharma heirs. And actually there are many more. And here are only three of dharma heirs of Sekito Kishen. So although Sekito was a very well-known teacher, he only had a small number of disciples. And Sektor's dharma ear, one of the most important dharma ear was Yaksan Igen. We know him because of the famous koan about think of not thinking. How do you think of not thinking beyond thinking? And Yaksan's disciples are Ungan Donjo and Dogo Enchi. Ungan and Dogo originally practiced with Hyakujo, Hyakujo Ekai.

[42:46]

Hyakujo was one of the major disciples, Dharma heirs of Baso. So first Dogo Enchi left Hyakujo's monastery and visited Yaksan. and invited Ungan to come to Yaksan's assembly. At that time, Dogo said, how can I say, Basso's style is like a department store or a supermarket. He has everything. But Sekito's lineage was like the expression Dogo used was . He used about basso, he said .

[43:47]

home in the shop. Zagka means the miscellaneous stuff, things. So the shop, they have everything. And about the sectors lineage, Dogo said, Shinkinho, Shinki means true gold. So in this shop, they only sell true gold. So not many people come. So this is a kind of a contrast. And this contrast, I think, is same contrast as I talked this morning, to keep the practice pure and strong and to Dharma, to make the Dharma available to many people.

[45:17]

And I think in Buddhist, in any Buddhist tradition, there are those two sides. And two sides are sometimes contradicted, sometimes have a kind of a tension. But both, you know, helped each other, support each other. And some people go that way, and other people go another way. of this Dogen's writing, Gyoji, to keep the practice pure and strong, and yet we should strive to spread that dharma, this kind of deepening the dharma, deepening to make it deep and to make it wide. We need to work both directions, I think, and it's very difficult.

[46:19]

We need to find, you know, each person has different, you know, capability and different karma, so we cannot do, you know, everything. Some people are, you know, capable like Basho, and some people like Sekito want to As I said, his verse of Song of Grass Roof Hermitage, I think he liked to be alone. And yet he couldn't reject people, so he started to teach. But he didn't want to travel around and teach and have many students. And Vass has kind of opposite. And I think both are important.

[47:20]

Anyway, this is Vassal. And one of the most important, or if you are interested in Vassal, this is a book or translation of Vassal's teachings. Sun Face Buddha. If you want. And Dogen Zenji liked the story of, maybe I already told, about the polishing of the tiger between Baso and his teacher, Nangaku. Anyway, Kosei Baso or John C. Mazu, practiced Zazen for 20 years. He received the intimate seal from Nangaku or Nanyue.

[48:24]

After he had received Dharma transmission in guiding people, he never said that he put aside Zazen. When a practitioner visited him for the first time, he never failed to allow them to intimately receive the mind field. I think Dogen refers to the story of the polishing time. Actually, Dogen Zenji made a change to that story. In the original story of the Polishing Tide, Basso was sitting near from the Nangaku's temple, and he had not met with Nangaku yet.

[49:29]

But some young monk was sitting all day at the hermitage. Nagaku visited to examine what this person was doing. And he asked what I was doing. I think I already told the story, so I won't repeat. And after that conversation, Basso received this mind seal from Nangaku. That was the original story. But Dogen Zenji put four Chinese characters before that story. And that makes the meaning of that conversation almost completely different. That is, before the conversation of Polishing Tai, Basho had already received this mind seal.

[50:34]

So Basho did already understand the true meaning of the Zen. And Dogen, based on that situation, Dogen Zenji interprets the story of the polishing time in Shobo Genzo Zazen Shin, or Acupuncture Needle of Zazen. So Dogen is also a kind of a story maker. Anyway, this mind seal is the same mind seal or intimate seal, the same seal appeared in that story. And so he, Basso, Dogen said, Basso put emphasis on the Zen, please. I'm not sure.

[51:46]

But sometimes yes, sometimes not, I guess. Means I don't think Basho received dharma transmission right after he deleted. Or I'm not sure. Maybe no scholar are not sure there's such things called Dharma transmission as we have now. At the time of, you know, early Tang Dynasty. So I'm sorry, I don't know. I'm pretty sure there's no such kind of a ceremony. Of course, there's the idea, concept of Dharma transmission, like the story in Huinan or Sixth Ancestor. But I don't think Sixth Ancestor received, you know, the Kechi Miyako or transmission chart or shisho.

[52:51]

But he just received Oryoki, Rōbukesa and Oryoki. Anyway, Basso always went to the place of community work. This is samu, fushin samu, prior to other people. This fushin samu, or community work, is one of the important aspects of Chinese Zen practice. started around this time, Baso or his disciple Hyakujo. You know, those Zen masters in early history of Zen, Chinese Zen, they somehow entered mountains and

[53:54]

establish their own monasteries and in order to do so they worked by themselves and they tried to support their practice by themselves by working like growing rice or vegetables. And in the history of Buddhism, that was kind of a revolutionary thing, because cultivating growing vegetables or farming was prohibited by Vinaya precept. Because when we work on the ground, we need to kill many living beings. But somehow these masters intentionally break the precept. They became free from the precept and started to their own kind of practice style in which they worked on the field to support their practice.

[55:09]

The first Zen master who, according to tradition, who made that regulation of the monastery that is different from the Naya precept was Hyakujo Ekai. And he will appear later, so I'll talk about this community work later when I talk about Hyakujo. But from the time of Baso, they had, in Zen community, they had community work. The original expression for community work is fushinsamu. Fushin, fu means universal or common, and shin is invitation or asking.

[56:42]

So fushin means to ask all people, all the members of the community to come to work. And samu is, I think you know this one. Samu means work. Samu means to make something. And mu means to work or duty, responsibility. So, and still in Japanese we use this Fushin not only within Buddhist or Zen community, but in the common society they still use this word, Fushin. This came out of Zen practice at the monasteries, but, you know, friend in certain village, and someone needs to build a house, you know, they ask all people in the village to help the person.

[57:47]

And that was called pushing, asking all the people in the community to work come to work. So not only in Zen community, but also the common community in Japan have this practice of Fushin. So Fushin still in modern Japanese means building a house or construction work. And even in his old age, he was untiring. The current Rinzai or Rinji school came out of the stream from Kosei or Baso. Rinzai

[58:48]

was a student, disciple of Obaku. And Obaku was disciple of Hyakujo. And Hyakujo was disciple of Baso. So Rindai was one to third generation from Baso. OK, next one is Ungan, Ungan Donjo. Please. I don't know. I mean, in Japan we only use Japanese names. You know, in China, they only use Chinese names. I mean, same, same, same Chinese characters, but because Japanese people cannot pronounce like Chinese, the sound changed.

[60:00]

You know, we pronounce, in Japan, we pronounce this person's name Jin-ne, but Chinese people, Chinese, original Chinese pronunciation are different. change something. And, you know, Chinese word has four different kind of tones. So even the spelling is the same. If the tone is different, then it's a completely different word. So, you know, if you are not Chinese, you cannot pronounce Chinese word correctly. So depending upon when we receive this Chinese expression, in Japan, we pronounce different way. And since Japanese people pronounce in Japanese way, and in the history of time passing, more and more Japanese Japanized.

[61:13]

So Japanese pronunciation and Chinese pronunciation of the same Chinese character are different. And when, you know, Zen was introduced to this country, American people think the Chinese person's name should be pronounced by Chinese pronunciation, I think. So they, instead of calling this Jinne, or more, Eno. Eno is a Japanese pronunciation for Huinan. So we call him the sixth ancestor, Eno. But Chinese pronunciation of these same characters are Hui. And then, I don't know that tone, so I can't really correctly pronounce these two.

[62:19]

But because American people, maybe especially scholars, think Chinese names should be written in original Chinese. So in this country, most books doesn't use Japanese pronunciation, but Chinese pronunciation. But, you know, because I don't, I cannot pronounce Chinese, you know, correctly. And even some Chinese, you know, word I can't even pronounce. So I try to keep use Japanese because I'm sure that is correct Japanese pronunciation. So I'm sorry, you know, this kind of a confusion. But that is a problem only in this country or outside of Japan or China. No.

[63:25]

No. I mean, yes and no. I mean, Sanskrit word, for example, Shakyamuni, I don't know the Chinese pronunciation of Shakyamuni, but in Japanese, we pronounce Shakyamuni as Shaka-moony, not Shakyamuni, Shaka-moony. So pronunciation are different. But we try to Indian people's name as Sanskrit spelling. Please. So in China, you're writing books about Japanese ancestors. Do they use Japanese version of Japanese? They don't have that problem. They use just Dogen. In the case of Dogen, they just use the Chinese characters.

[64:30]

And probably they pronounce this as Dao Yuan or something. But in Japanese and Chinese, we don't have this problem. So ,, or in Chinese, ,, he lived 782 to 841. So muscle, I forget.

[65:34]

Maybe I did. 709 to 788. So Ungan was a person I talked about, those two different kind of shops. First, Ungan practice with Hyakujo. And here Dogen says, Master Ungan practiced together with Dogo and Yaksan, the Master Yaksan. They took a vow together and never put their sides on the floor for 40 years. Again, there are other people who don't lie down. Anyway, this unga and dogo. In Japan, we had a stick to rest our chin when we sit sitting.

[66:38]

I saw a stick, such a stick, at Katagiri Roshi's room. I think he had that stick. We call it a denpan. But I'm not sure whether he used it or not. In China, yeah, they still do in Chinese tradition. I think 1975, first I came to this country, I had a chance to visit the Golden Mountain Temple in Chinatown. And I was told that some people there sleep sitting. I was really amazed. But when their teacher gave a talk, they were all sleeping. You know, it's very kind of convenient.

[67:44]

They don't need to lie down to sleep. Sleeping boxes. Sleeping boxes. To sleep in a box? Wow. Wow. That's interesting. Well, anyway, Ungan and Dogo, there are many different versions of the story, again. But it said they were real brothers. Dogo was elder brother, and Ungan was younger brother. And Ungan became a monk first. I mean, yes, Ungan. And Dogo was trying to become a government official.

[68:49]

But somehow, when Dogo went to some place to take the examination to become official, somehow Ungan and Dogo met each other. And I didn't remember really what kind of conversation they had, but somehow Dogo changed his mind. And instead of going to take the examination, he became a Buddhist monk. So in the family, Dogo was an elder brother and Ungan was a younger brother. But in Dharma community, Ungan was elder and Dogo was younger. kind of a complicated relationship. And this is one of the key points of this story.

[69:57]

But somehow, Dogo was a very keen-witted person. And he attained enlightenment before Ungan. Ungan was a very steady, slow-moving person. And the story going on, but we don't have time to talk on that story. But anyway, those two, Ungan and Dogo, and another person, whose name was Tokujo, practiced together under Yaksan. And this person, Tokujo, became a boatman to ferry people on the river. And last year I talked about this person and his Dharma successor. But anyway, those three people practiced together.

[71:01]

And the boatman left, but those two, Ungan and Dogo, practiced together for a long time. And another story says that Ungan never attained enlightenment. I don't know if it's true or not, until his death. And it's kind of important for me. There was at least one Zen master who didn't attend enlightenment. Anyway, they practiced together in this way with single flavor, means wholeheartedly, single-mindedly. And Ungam transmitted and entrusted Dharma to the great master

[72:07]

Tozan or Dongshan, Gohong. Gohong or Wuben is a title, honorific title given by the emperor after this person's death. So Ungan gave Dharma transmission to Pozan, and Pozan, or Dongshan, was the founder of our lineage in China, Chinese Soto school. So Ungan was a very important master in our lineage. And there's other interesting stories between Ungan and Tozan. And Dogen Zenji wrote about Ungan and Tozan in a few first scrolls of Shobo Genzo.

[73:11]

So if you are interested, please read it. But it's kind of difficult. But now I don't have time to talk on those stories. Anyway, Tozan said, I wanted to become one piece and I have been engaging the way of Zazen for 20 years. So Tozan practiced with Ungan and received transmission and practiced Zazen for 20 years. And this expression, to become one piece, or is also famous or important expression. Da literally means to hit, but in this case there's no meaning, but this makes this next word stronger.

[74:36]

So dajo is one word, and jo means, jo is jo in genjo koan, jo, to become, or to complete. also to success, to be successful. And each is one. And pen or hen is peace. Become one piece. Means often our body and mind are separated. But by, you know, concentration, body, mind, and this entire world become one piece. that is our expression of kind of, you know, Samadhi. So, please. That means to hit.

[75:41]

Yes. And his way has been widely transmitted until today. So Ungan and Tozan's way has been as a Soto tradition at the time of Dogen. Well, actually, Dogen said at the time of Dogen in China, only Rinzai tradition has spread and not so many Soto Zen teachers. But somehow he said it has been widely transmitted until today. But today, in the 21st century, in Japan and some parts of China and in this country and Europe, Soto Zen has been really widely spread.

[76:46]

I think it's time to stop talking. Any question? No question, good.

[77:01]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_87.96