Good afternoon, everyone. This is the last lecture, I think. We have only two more paragraphs, very short, so hopefully I can finish talking on this in 20 or 30 minutes. And the rest of the time, I'd like to let you talk. Because I talk too much. I almost talked, you know, 20 hours in seven days. I couldn't, I can't imagine, you know, I talk 20 hours in English. Anyway, two more paragraphs. Ah, yeah, next year. Okay, so the final section.

[01:05]

An old Buddha had said, Mountains are mountains, and waters are waters. These words do not say that mountains are mountains. They say that mountains are mountains. Therefore, we should thoroughly study these mountains When we thoroughly study the mountains, this is the mountain training. Such mountains and waters themselves become wise men and sages. You know, I have been talking about Sanseikyo for 20 hours, and I had many difficulties to understand, but I have been trying to kind of report of seeing the southern peaks from inside the mountains.

[02:13]

That is what I have been doing since I became Uchiha Maroshi's disciple. So this is just a report. Please don't think what I'm saying or what I have been saying is what Dogen was writing. This is just my view. And, you know, some places are very difficult, some places we, you know, feel it's great. But after those discussions about the virtues of mountains and rivers, waters, what Dogen is saying here is, mountain is just mountain, water is just water. I think he's a terrible teacher. I mean, this is a quotation from Chinese Zen masters.

[03:15]

There are a few masters who said this statement. One of them is, of course, Unmong. In his Dharma discourse, he says, All, please, that means all of you, His saying is, maku mouzou. Maku mouzou. Maku is not. And mouzou, according to my Japanese-English dictionary, mouzou is a fancy or a wild fancy. So maku mouzou is don't be lost in wild fancies. Or don't be given to delusional thinking.

[04:23]

Or don't indulge in all gathering. So don't... So Umo is talking to his student. Don't... indulge in all gathering. And then he said, heaven is heaven, earth is earth, mountain is mountain, water is water, a monk is a monk, and a layperson is a layperson. That's it. So that means if we think mountains something else, it's a delusion. So don't discuss. You know, so Fat Dogen has been discussing just illusion or all gathering. I think that is true. Anyway, another person who said this is, and probably this person is saying, is in Dogen's mind when he wrote this.

[05:40]

That person is Seigen Yuishin. I don't know Chinese pronunciation, Seigen Yuixin. He's a Dharma successor of Chinese Rinzai Zen Master Kaido Soshin. Anyway, this Zen Master says, I think this is a very well-known saying, so maybe many of you already know. He said, 30 years ago, when I had not studied then, I saw that mountain is mountain and waters are waters. And later, I intimately met my teacher and entered this place.

[06:44]

I saw mountains are not mountains, and waters are not waters. Now I have attained the place of resting, that means stop everything. As before, I simply see that mountains are mountains and waters are waters. I think you know this. So after a long discussion about what is mountains and what are waters and how we should get into the mountains and really give or drop into the water, finally Dogen says, water is just water and mountains are just mountains. And next he says,

[07:49]

Therefore, no, these words do not say that mountains are mountains. They say that mountains are mountains. One possible interpretation is this, you know, first mountains are mountains is what this Sengen Yushin referred, the way he saw the mountains before he practiced them. And the second mountains and waters, mountains, mountain, is maybe after he, you know, how can I say, what he said is, I have attained the place of resting, means after even if, you know, become liberated from so-called Zen or enlightenment or whatever, then, you know, mountains are just mountains.

[08:55]

So maybe those two, mountains are mountains, are maybe those two statements, before and after. Before Zen Master studied Zen, and after he was liberated from Zen. That is same as, you know, the word shushin in the question to unmon. You know, here are the place of shushin, liberated place, or place of emancipation from Buddha. And the reason why I think Dogen quote this sentence and saying in this way is as a conclusion of this writing on mountains and rivers sutra, I think he would like to, how can I say,

[10:08]

express the, not idea, but the spirit of shikan, shikan in, shikan taza, just sitting. Shikan taza is just sitting. And mountains, just mountains. And rivers or waters are just waters. This just sitting. or simply is, you know, I think most important point in Dogen's teaching. In the case of zazen or sitting, we just sit. We do nothing else. Really just sit. And this just sit or shikantaza is often used as a kind of one of the approaches to sitting meditation. That is sitting without using koan.

[11:12]

But I don't think that is what Dogen meant when he used this expression, shikan taza, or just sitting. I think this was just, or Shikam, his final answer to his own question about why we have to practice if everything is already in the Buddha nature or Dharma nature or in the reality of all beings. Why we have to study and why we have to practice And I think originally this expression, shikan taza, stated by not Dogen himself, but his teacher. But this word, shikantaza, is very important, one of the key words in Dogen's teaching, just sitting.

[12:20]

And not only sitting, but when we eat, we just eat. When we work in the kitchen, just cook. And when we clean, cleaning, just clean. When we chant, just chant. This attitude of just I think is the final attitude or final answer by seeing two versions of mountains and rivers. That means the reality of all beings. That is, as he discussed in San Suikyo, abiding in a Dharma position peacefully, and also keep constantly walking. These are kind of two contradicted

[13:25]

aspect of one's reality. And when we see both sides of reality of our life, what we can do, or what kind of attitude we find, is do focus on whatever we are doing right now as our kind of a role in our day-to-day lives or when we are sitting in the Zen door we really just sit hundred percent being there do nothing else That is one meaning of just sitting. Just be there. Just be there, peacefully, hundred percent. Nowhere else. That is one, I think, aspect or side of just sitting. And yet, you know, we cannot

[14:29]

cling to that position, that dharma position, we have to go to somewhere else, of course. That is the meaning of constantly walking. So we cannot cling to who I am or what I'm doing, but we often, you know, I want to be a teacher, or I'd like to be a tenzo, or I'd like to be, you know, I want to become a bot, you know, those things. We cling to, we want to stay there, but somehow we cannot, so we have to flow. And just washikan means we just do what we are supposed to do at this moment, 100%, but without attachment, without clinging to what we are doing. I think that is the meaning of just sitting, or shikan, Fendogen used.

[15:37]

Shikantada, so shikantada is not one of a, you know, method of sitting, but shikantada is you know, the thing we can do, or maybe only thing we can do when we face this reality of peacefully abiding and also constantly walking, you know, be here. But within being here, you know, somehow we are moving. So we cannot cling to this position, this dharma position. We have to go to the next dharma position. So this shikan, or just doing something, is very important. So not only in the Zen, but within entire life, of our lives, of our day-to-day lives, we try to do, just do it.

[16:49]

Now this phrase, just do it, is very popular. That is a problem, I think. Just do it. So finally, I think the final thing Dogen wants to say is just do it. When you sit, just sit. When you cook, just cook. When you walk, just walk. When you sit quietly, just sit quietly. And when you think, just think. But we want to do many things at one time. That's a problem. So this is a kind of very simple practice, just do it. Just be one place at one time and just do one thing at one time. This doing, just doing, bring us to the next stage.

[17:53]

So our practice is not a preparation or a... preparation for the next stage. But by doing what I'm doing now, this practice brings us to the next stage, I think. So this practice is very simple. So we wonder why Dogen had to discuss such a simple thing. What he can do, he had to say, just sit, just do things. But he had to write so many writings. And I think he put here his really lot of energy in writing to explain why we have to just do things at one time. I think because if we take this teaching of just do it carelessly, it becomes another poison, I think.

[19:01]

So we have to understand when Dogen teaches us just do it, what this means. And as an explanation of the meaning, deep meaning of just do it, he has to write this kind of strange, difficult, almost nonsense writings. So we understand this practice of just do it in the context of Dogen's teachings of entire Shobo Genzo, or not only Shobo Genzo, but entire writing of Dogen and also entire, not only writing, but practice, actual practice taught by Dogen. you know, I said, just do it, the attitude of just do it can be a poison.

[20:05]

Because, you know, as you said, you know, we can say, wherever we are, Buddha is hidden in the war or in the bombing or in the selling drugs or whatever. And I think that is true. And if just do it is without the context of what Dogen is talking, discussing, just do it means just kill. Can be Buddhist practitioner or can be a Buddhist practice in the war. If we are a soldier, just kill is the application of Dogen's teaching. But that is not what Dogen is saying. He is saying, teaching this attitude of just do it in the context of, you know, mountains and rivers as a real form, true form of all beings.

[21:07]

And in the context of Buddha's teaching, that is, how we can avoid the harmful way to contact with others that cause argument and fighting. So if we lose the sight of this context and also to be a Buddha's student, we have to receive precept. Precept is our guideline of our way of life. So We should understand this teaching, just do it, within the context of this receiving precept and following, studying and practicing and following Buddha's teaching, how to live peacefully in harmony with all beings. Otherwise, it can be really a poison, I think, because we don't need to think.

[22:17]

We don't need to think whether this is good or bad, whether this is harmful or not. Just do it. It's really, how can I say, a kind of opium. Opium? Drug. So, Fath Dogen asks us to understand the deep meaning, profound meaning of just doing in the context of Buddhist practice, following Buddha's teaching. Zen influenced a lot deeply into the culture of samurai warriors in Japan. Many people are interested in Zen and martial arts.

[23:23]

and somehow I don't like martial arts, I don't like samurai, probably because of my background. My family had been a merchant. In the social system in Japan before Meiji, there are basically four kind of caste. The highest one is samurai, of course. The second is farmers. The third is craftsmen. The lowest is merchant. Of course, there are before or below merchant. Those are called heening or untouchable. But in this system, merchant is the lowest, especially the merchant in Osaka.

[24:26]

I'm from Osaka. Osaka is the center of merchandise for 300 years in Tokugawa period. And merchants in Osaka thought they support what they make this entire economy of this society alive or works. And they have, you know, merchants in Osaka have economic power. don't have political power and authority because merchants are lowest. So people in Osaka has deep kind of a, how can I say, inferior complex and also superior complex toward people in Tokyo who have political power and authority.

[25:32]

But people in Osaka think we have money. That's kind of, you know, twisted karma. So actually, people in Osaka don't like samurai, even though we have to pay homage to samurai. But actually, I don't like samurai. So please don't ask me about Zen and martial arts. I never practiced martial arts. Anyway. In the Tokugawa period, this idea or influence to the way of warriors or samurai from Zen is a kind of idea. they really didn't use it. I mean, because for 300 years in Japan, we had no wars. So warriors didn't fight.

[26:35]

So the way of samurai is a kind of an idea of how samurai should train themselves and what kind of attitude the warriors should maintain. They didn't use this, you know, like a sword and then a wand. in battlefield but in the after mage during the war times we had a lot many wars japan experienced many wars i think for the first time in the history that idea can our sword and then our one is put into use into practice And I think that was really a poison or misuse or abuse of this idea of Zen, just do it. After Meiji? After Meiji. Meiji is the second half of the 19th century.

[27:37]

World War II is the final one. Before that, yeah. That's not our civil war. Right. Well, I mean, there's a person who was all killed. Sure. Yeah, you know, if we miss the context of this practice of just do it, that means without, you know, the kind of, in a sense, judgment of not kill, with this vow of not killing, if we apply this teaching, you know, just do it. You know, we can just, we can apply this attitude in any condition or situation. And if we, this attitude is used in the condition of war, you know, it's really terrible thing. It has nothing to do with Buddha's teaching.

[28:47]

But people in that period, in Japan, used Zen in that way. I think, you know, that is the fact I think Taizen Victoria wrote in the book Zen at War. And I think it's really that Zen or Buddhism is kind of twisted because of that situation. Anyway, two more sentences. When we thoroughly study the mountains, this is the mountain training. So Dogen asked us to thoroughly study mountains. Without studying mountains, this idea of just doing it may become a poison.

[29:50]

So we need to thoroughly study what this mountain is. That is, we are living together with all beings. then this practice, this study is the mountain training. I think means mountain is training mountain, or mountain studies the mountain. I think that is the same thing he said before. And then such mountains and waters themselves become wise men and sages. So that reality of all beings become wise. Wise men and sages means a real person of the way. Well, that is the end of San Suikyo. It says, Treasury of the Eye of the True Dharma, Book 29, The Mountains and Waters Sutra, Presented to the Assembly, 18th Day, 10th Month, First Year of Ninji, that means 1240, at Kannon Dori, Koshio Horinji.

[31:08]

So he wrote the title and the fair and when he wrote this fascicle. Well, this is the end of my lecture. We have 25 more minutes if this watch is correct. If you have any question or statement, please. First of all, thank you very much. I really enjoyed this. I hope we can do it again soon after you take a break. OK. My question is about the teaching of shikantaza or shikan and just do it. My understanding is that at Dogen, got older, he more and more emphasized monastic training. And I'm wondering when you're saying that teaching of just do it makes sense in the context of Buddha's teaching, do you think he was referring specifically to monastic training or... I mean it in a more general way.

[32:09]

I found teaching of Just Do It to be very helpful within the context of temple life and just do this next thing on the schedule. I'm wondering if you might be emphasizing the formal monastic training aspects. In the case of Dogen, I think yes. When he teach the practice of just doing, he meant this is his teaching to his disciples who were practicing in the monastic setting. And whether we apply this teaching to our day-to-day lives in the 21st century or not is, I think, our responsibility. And if my understanding is correct, I think Uchida Moroshi tried to find a way to apply this practice into modern lives.

[33:18]

I think. And he tried to find a kind of idea and principle, but, you know... He was really living in a temple in Japan and just sat. And since he was not a physically strong person, he was not so active in the society. So he was trying to find the essence of Dogen's or Buddha's teachings and try to find the meaning of that practice or teaching in our modern lives, I think. So he has an idea, but his idea is not yet, I think, practiced actually widely. And I think One thing I'd like to do is to transmit Dogen's, Buddha's, Dogen's and Utsamaro's teaching to this country and try to find a way how this teaching can work.

[34:36]

without making too much poison. I keep saying I don't like foams, but please don't make this your excuse not to practice foams sincerely. When I say I don't like foams, I have no dislikeness. Do you understand what I mean? I do forms. And I don't dislike forms. But also, I don't like it. So within this saying, I don't like it, I have no hatred, no dislikeness. Please. A while back, I once heard somebody had asked him what it would take a Zen master.

[35:41]

And he replied, my life has been one continuous mistake. I'm wondering if I attributed that to some other Zen master. A couple weeks ago, I was at a lecture with Carl and I asked him the same question. And he smiled and chuckled and said, I don't know. Well, that expression is shusaku-jusaku, shusaku-jusaku, shousaku-jusaku. Show is with, suck is mistake, and show is to go or to reach, and suck is mistake again.

[36:50]

So with mistake, go to mistake. this is one expression Dogen used, but he didn't say because of this I practiced, I started to practice or my life is one continuous series of mistakes. But this is kind of a well-known Zen expressions. Please. In Japanese? Shushaku, zhushaku, well, with mistake or from one mistake to another mistake. Maybe that's the meaning. From one mistake to another mistake. So the meaning of this statement is one continuation of mistakes. But in this case, mistake is not negative thing.

[37:57]

mistake. I mean, we try to do one thing, I found, you know, this is not enough. This is not deep enough. So we go next, and we find, you know, this is not yet complete. So we continue. So in that, in that sense, actually, our practice, or our life is, you know, from one mistake to another. This is how we practice, and this is, in a sense, an expression of our repentance. And also the expression of our vow, endless vow. Okay? Please. and I read it under that, and I got totally confused. After this, I understand it. I guess my question is, when I'm reading these things, I don't know maybe how to read them.

[39:05]

Yeah, I didn't know for a long time, almost 20 years, how to read this, how to understand it. I didn't really understand even one sentence in San Suikyo for a long time. It's not because I lack knowledge. I had more knowledge in my 20s. I read many books, but now I'm forgetting knowledge. But something become more and more clear to me through not thinking or accumulation of knowledge, but through, I think, my aging and maybe experience of Zazen. So, for times, I said, you know, I have been saying during this session, it's just my, you know, temporal report, temporary report.

[40:28]

So, please don't take, you know, this is my final understanding. You know, next year, maybe I say completely different ways. So, please read not only Sanseikyo, but any Dogen's writings, or not only Dogen, but any Buddhist writing, through your understanding and experience, that means study and practice. I think that is the most important point. And what you hear from me is just one fantasy. So please don't trust. Please. I'm not sure I heard you correctly. I should have maybe asked then. But when in the part two, you said part two, where he said the stone woman gave birth to a child in the night, did I understand you to say that Dogen didn't make any comment on that?

[41:39]

He didn't talk, he didn't comment? Well, he made a short comment as, yeah, but that is... how can I say, simply kind of a quote from the different stories. So I don't really find a strong statement in there. But what he said about this thing is not about strong woman, but a child and parent. Yeah, that part he said. But he didn't say, and he said, what is night? Night. That is nice time. But he didn't say fat is stone woman. Or fat stone means really. So then on page 12, the paragraph that talks about that is Karl Bielefeld's interpretation.

[42:47]

Hmm. Yeah, I think so, from his investment, I mean, through other commentaries. Okay, please. This has been an extraordinary teaching, and I think everybody here... Is there anything specifically that we can do for you to help you continue your efforts to bridge this Japanese and American religious situation? Is there anything we can do? Yes. Is that available? Yes. a letter from me and a description from the Shinseng community of their plans to build the center and their requests for donations to help build it.

[44:02]

Yes. So... There should be a letter coming out soon. Do you know when the mailing is planned? As soon as we have enough money to mail. It's already printed, so it's ready, but we are a little short of money. I mean, we purchased land in the town of Bloomington, a little bit smaller than one acre, and that land has no building. And I raised some money from Japan, about, let's see, 75,000 or so.

[45:12]

And some donation from this country is seed money. And instead of paying loan for the land, we paid off. So now, Sanshin owns the lands. But because we paid off, we have a short of kind of source. But we have just enough to start construction of the first building. in which we have a temporary zendo, kitchen, office space and a few rooms for visitors or residents and dormitories. three floors. That is the first and probably the biggest building we are going to build. And next building is a house for my family.

[46:18]

We need a house to live. And so we have enough money to start the first construction, but we need money to build the second one. That's our need. How did you choose Bloomington? How? Well, when I was in Minneapolis, once I was invited to the group there, and I did a session. And kind of as a coincidence, one old friend of mine from Kyoto was there. His name is John McRae. His time in 1975, the first place I stayed is his place. At that time he lived in Los Angeles and he had a small kind of a nursing home.

[47:22]

And that is the first place I stayed in this country. And when I met him in Bloomington, now he teaches in Bloomington, She asked me to come. After I finished my tenure at the Minnesota Zen Meditation Center, I formed this sangha, and I was looking for a place to locate it. And so Bloomington became one of the possibilities. We have several other possibilities. And unfortunately, right after we started to look for a place, I had to move to California. So it was a very unfortunate thing for this community. Since then, I have been in California for about five years. On one hand, it's unfortunate, but on the other hand, I think it's very fortunate.

[48:36]

for me too and also for Sanshin too because during these last five years I have been traveling all over and practiced with many sanghas and many teachers and many students. So now I have a kind of an overall view of American at least Soto Zen and I find what I'd like to do in Bloomington or in Sanshin, I think it's very important and helpful to, how can I say, I don't like the word develop, or progress, or deepen the understanding of Dharma. I think our practice has kind of two directions. One is deepen it, another is spread it. And I think to spread the Dharma is not my job as a teacher from Japan.

[49:46]

But American teachers should spread the Dharma in the way accessible from larger society. But what I can do, my best contribution is to transmit what I studied and practiced in Japan to people in this country. And that is what I'd like to do. So I don't think Sanshin Practice Center is a local sangha. There is a local sangha there named Zen Center of Bloomington. We share the same place, but I like to keep it independent to each other, that sangha. develop, you know, practice as a local Sangha. But what I want to do at Sanshin is to focus on sitting practice, Zazen and Dogen study.

[50:48]

Of course, in order to study Dogen, we have to study, you know, almost all teaching of Buddhism. So Dogen study include study on general Buddhism. So, you know, by through activity, not in California, but through the Southern Education Center, my vision become getting clear. So I feel this is very fortunate thing. Well, okay. Please. Can you say something about your vision? my vision, my will. So as I said, I want to establish a place where people can, you know, since my students are scattering all over.

[51:52]

So this place is a kind of a hub of the community and where people can come and sit and study with me whenever they want or they can. That is my vision. And so this center is, I don't think, is a monastery, study and sitting center. You'll do onkaji, soshi? Yeah, I'd like to. And daily practice or not? Well, I think, you know, every day sitting may be done by the Zen Center of Wilmington, and we join. But it's not clear yet, you know, until I move there, or until we have Zen doors. So it's still not in reality, but it's getting become reality.

[52:53]

So I really appreciate any help from you. Do you think, for example, that students from other local groups might come and spend some period of time sitting with you and helping you translate? Yes. That sort of thing. Yeah. I think I'd like to keep that kind of a connection with any Zen centers. I think while I'm visiting and practicing with different sanghas, I found that teachers are very busy. during session teachers cannot sit they have so many things to do to take care of students so I think for teachers to have this kind of session I think is really a good thing really just sitting without teaching I think is a bliss I have had occasion to go sit another Sunday

[54:07]

Well, it's almost 4.30. Do you have an organized fundraising effort and people carrying this activity out? It's not in good shape. It's not established because I'm not there. And people are really working hard, but people are, you know, different places. So it's not really well organized. Not centralized. Yeah, right. Yeah, even I don't know what's going on. But somehow it's happening. I mean, Todd helped us to make the brochure of Sanshin.

[55:15]

So I really appreciate his help. Pardon? Use her help. Thank you. Please. Most of the people that are translating and helping are 15-year-old men. Are there any women now in this country that are... Helping me translate the... Helping me? Translation. I mean, in the studies, are there any women right now that participate? I'm just saying, but are also at this level, let's say. I don't know. I'm just curious.

[56:17]

Are there many women scholars, Buddhist women scholars that you work with? Or are you going to develop a movement? Just hold on. I don't know. Yeah, just do it. Please. You know, our practice period is on compassionate practices. And I don't think we have a much better example than showing this to you. I said, this practice period is on compassionate practices, and I don't believe that we could have seen an example of more perfect compassion this week of lectures. It was wonderful, even in the wrong language.

[57:20]

Thank you very much. Let me talk one more thing. What's the title of the book that is a collection of Suzuki Roshi's student experience with Suzuki Roshi? Shining One Corner. Shining One Corner, yeah. Shining One Corner of the World. Yeah, in that book, Mel Waitman wrote his experience about Rob Chan with Suzuki Roshi. Mary asked Suzuki Roshi, what's the meaning of this chanting? I think they chant it in Japanese, so they didn't know what this is. Mary said, Suzuki Roshi pointed his heart and Suzuki Roshi said, love, L-O-V-E. And Mel talked about this experience at the Dogen Zenji Symposium.

[58:25]

And right after that, Carl Billfield said in a very small voice, low voice, how do Japanese people pronounce low? Do you understand? In Japanese, we have a distinction between R sound and L sound. and the B sound and the V sound. So guess is point answered rope. I don't know. is right or not. This is the same thing about Dogen's dropping of body and mind, whether it's misunderstanding or not. But I think same thing might happen.

[59:33]

Many things like that happened during this week. I think when you listen to my lecture, But, you know, in the case of males, it's very wonderful, positive. I hope what happened this week is also positive, not harmful for the sake of Dharma. Okay, thank you very much.

[60:04]

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