seen from two different angles. First, it is the faith which you have moved to thought. This faith has always its own object. That object is dharma. dharma is ultimate source of existence or the dharma is the truth or if you experience that the ultimate source personally it is called liberation That liberation, perfect liberation is complete beyond idea of liberation or not liberation.

[01:14]

That is, if you really experience these ultimate thoughts of existence through your body and mind, that Dharma is called liberation or emancipation. We say Tetatsu in Japanese. Free, freedom. Just like swimming in the ocean. Swimming in the ocean. Freedom. So, very naturally in the book, Awakening of Faith, it says there are four kinds of faith. First, there is faith in the ultimate source. From this point, faith is that which we have to return to the source anyway.

[02:22]

Continuing, we have to anyway seek, we have to see deeply into the ultimate source constantly that is faith physically or mentally we try to do that is called faith that's why the awakening of faith says first anyway the faith is to believe in the ultimate source Because a man comes to meditate with joy on the Dharma of the truth. Dharma of the truth means principle of the truth. Because truth is exactly perfect discipline, principle of existence for human beings, for all sentient beings.

[03:25]

That is truth. Or, that's actually thoughts. So it says, a man comes to meditate with joy on this principle of truth. So joy means, joy doesn't mean the vulgar display of joy. But this joy must be based on a true quality and unconditioned Unconditioned means sometimes it is translated as unactivity. Unactivity is not perfect. So maybe unconditioned. That means unconditioned means a state of existence beyond human worldly affair or going beyond mundane world or not mundane world.

[04:30]

This is called unconditioned. This is called unconditioned world. So, true quality and the unconditioned must be based on a joy from Dhamma. From Dhamma. Joy in this case, joy here must be a human feeling coming from continuous aspiration for experiencing the Dharma too, continually. At that time joy is Joy comes up very naturally from the bottom of your heart. That is called joy. Truncuity means, if you believe this joy is just something vulgar, you have a huge thought, six senses.

[05:35]

But at that time, truncuity becomes sort of a lonesome, a lonesome, a loneliness. and also unconditioned becomes sort of unactive. Just like the contaminated, not contaminated, what would you say, stagnant water. Just stagnant, no activity, no aliveness of human life when there is just a stagnant water. It's not unconditioned so-called freedom, the unconditioned world. In the conditioned world, there are many ways of life based on positive, spontaneous activities and also very still, calm activities.

[06:43]

so called, so dynamism, dynamic activities in stillness, still tranquil activity in dynamism, this is the state of the unconditioned world, so all sentient beings anyway are present in this realm, so called unconditioned, that time you can feel joy, that joy is really coming from out of your heart. You don't understand. Your consciousness can't reach it. Why? From where it comes? You don't know. So, that's why it says the face is the face in the ultimate in the ultimate source because a man comes to meditate with joy on the Dharma of the Truth. So very naturally, you can see the picture of the faith, what it is.

[07:52]

Faith is, anyway, continually seeking for, anyway, experiencing, seeking for the truth with your body and mind. If you believe in this ultimate thought, naturally nest. You really want to experience it directly with your body and mind. But while the Dharma is present separate from you, so called as object of your faith, at that time you are still dualistic. So faith is not dualistic. Faith is freedom, liberation.

[08:54]

Faith must be completely digested. That is freedom, liberation. When you eat a meal, while meals can be seen, objectively, It is not that you cannot be free from food. Of course you can see the food objectively. And then you really appreciate the food. Looking at the food, you can appreciate. Next, if you really believe in the food helping your life, you really want it. You really want to experience directly. That is it. That eat is so-called freedom. Elimination from food.

[09:55]

That means digest. Perfect digestion. Food is digested until it becomes blood and then energy. But food becomes energy. At that time, you are completely free. Free from food. Just your body, just your life is alive. That is called the way-seeking mind, bodhicitta. Bodhicitta. Faith and bodhicitta. It's really effort. It's called effort. So effort is concrete manifestation, or to say, concrete manifestation of will in order to actualize and perceive freedom, liberation through your individual personality.

[11:08]

That is an effort. The way-seeking mind If you believe in ultimate thoughts through your body and mind, very naturally next you will very want to experience. At that time you become free from dualism. Okay? Dualism. So that is faith as bodhicitta. That's why Dogen Rin says the whole Oh no, this translation is right or wrong. The whole fit, look body is fit. Which is called fit. You understand? The whole fit look body. Look body. It means your whole body is exactly fit. So at that time you cannot say your body is fit, you know.

[12:12]

Or if the face is body, you cannot see so, because face is completely digested with your body and mind. So where is the face? You don't know. But just the body is here. But this body is not the body. Body is a face, completely impressed by a face. So face is digested. So your body is digested by the face, so whole body becomes face. Just like a fish. swimming in the water. But it's a fish. Fish is not fish. Swimming, the process of the swimming for the fish is fish? No. If you say it is fish, it is only ideal concept. No, conceptions. The notion of the fish which you make it stagnant. Grasp the fish in your head and then say, fish.

[13:17]

But process of swimming for the fish is exactly not fish. Water. But you cannot say water. Because fish is there. So in order to express the real process of the swimming of the fish, we say, what looks like. Looks like a fish. Looks like a fish is directly manifesting, is showing directly something truth. Truth. That is called looks like. Looks like a karagi. Looks like karagi is a funny expression, but looks like karagi is pretty nice, you know? Looks like. Looks like means exactly total working process, okay? The fish, so-called, swim. In that time, nothing to pin down.

[14:22]

So, the way seeking my faith as a bodhicitta, so-called effort, that means, is to do something with the one-pointedness. That is the waiting faith, the faith. That faith, when the faith is manifested, how can you know faith? You don't know. Actually you don't know what faith is. Because faith is lucid and clear. Nothing to pin down, nothing to touch it. If so, faith is what? Faith is something you can believe in. Yes, it is. But when you believe in the faith, some faith you believe in is already not lucid and clear.

[15:27]

Real faith is completely lucid and clear. How do you know? That faith is present right in the middle of total process. of doing with one-pointedness. At that time, anyway, faith is dead. But, unfortunately, you don't know. Your consciousness cannot reach it. But, exactly faith is dead. So, very naturally, if you continue to do this with your whole-heartedness, taking care of your lifelessness, very naturally, your life is growing. Promise. Very natural. It doesn't matter whether you believe in Zazen, which is useful or useless. It doesn't matter. I don't care. So if you think Zazen is good, useful, fine.

[16:34]

It is naturally to be expected. If you believe Zazen is useless, Ah, that study is very stupid. Oh, you are attending the workshop. Workshop? Yeah, workshop is useful for you? You say yes. At that time it is natural to be expected. But if you say workshop is useless. So this is a very common life, you know, in your daily life, always looking at your doings, going back one step, you know, wish for one step, and then looking at the workshop you are attending, as an attendant, and then evaluate it.

[17:39]

This is good, but this is bad. If you always take care of it like this, oh, of course it is okay, but if you take care of life like this, it's very difficult to grow, or to promote, or to be mature. You always miss the chance to make your life mature. So important point is, of course, workshop must be useful. But this is, this is a kind of promise. Through the words, which we have to, which we have made a promise. Workshop is, it must be useful. It's through the words, language. That's why everybody comes and believes the workshop is useful. But practically where you are, you are not right in the middle of language.

[18:44]

You are not in the middle of promise what we have made through the language, okay? So even though you are studying hard and attending the Zen and the very hard and listening to the lectures and still workshop is useful. You are one. You are one. So finally, why you are here? So this is very common. Faith is a human attitude and a human state. But you become free from this, to ask for excessive ideas, usefulness or uselessness, or will. But reality, you are right in the middle of reality. Reality, which you don't know.

[19:46]

You cannot judge it. Then your effort is completely made. Right in the middle between usefulness or uselessness. That is your effort. Always. Don't you think so? Then by this effort, your life is supported. and your life is promoting, your life is deepened, and your life is matured, anyway. So, that's why, Dogen Zen says, the whole body, the whole body is faith, is what is called faith. Whole body. That means faith, dharma,

[20:49]

must be manifested in your daily life. Then when the Dharma is digested with your body and mind, your life is anyway based on spiritual life, called faith. So in order to make effort moving toward the Dharma, There are two important conditions we have to take into account. One point is a self who believes in the Dharma is negated. Because the self, in the usual sense, self is always a notion of the self which always looking at the human life through the six senses.

[21:56]

Six senses, six organs, six objects. That is called discrimination, or thinking, judgment, evaluations, etc. This is very common life. Your daily life is exactly based on this common state of daily life. coming from evaluations and judgment and the thinking, the feelings itself, perceptions. But a face is exactly lucid and clear and nothing to pin down and nothing to contaminate. If so, you cannot emphasize a self who believe in the faith dharma. If you emphasize strongly that a self who believes in the dharma at that time it is no longer dharma because it is something contaminated.

[23:07]

So all you have to do is Anyway, a self who believes in the Dharma is negated means if you believe in the Dharma too, that's fine. Experience of your Dharma too. Let it go. Anyway let it go. Let it go means digest it. If you let it go, you can know. For instance, if you are... I always tell the fishermen, the person who fish, they're selling the fish. So you are obviously in the fish market, okay? So your whole body, mind becomes fishy smell. Of course you know, you realize how fishy your body is. But when you're continually there, you are, what would you say, your body and your senses becomes, what would you say, numb.

[24:21]

What would you say? Accustomed. No. If you become accustomed, accustomed, and... Subjugated? No. Kind of sickness and numbness in your body. Paralyzed. Your body and mind becomes paralyzed. You know, intuitively, fish smell always, but you're paralyzed. So from this point, you are not free from the smell, fish smell. So if you want to be free from fish smell, anyway, get out. from the fish market and then at that time who tells how fishy you are you should tell to yourself no way that is your ideas so all you have to do is just get out and then somebody tells you somebody tells you that somebody is completely out of his thought

[25:34]

Somebody tells you how fishy you are. That is real meaning of the fish smell. So if you experience a faced Dharma, which is called truth or freedom, regulations or whatever it is, joy, happiness, enlightenment, whatever, you must be anyway free from Get out from that. Let it go. That's why Dogen Zen says, if you let it go, your hand is felt. While you take hold of something in your hand, you miss. You cannot hold it because everything is impermanent. So, anyway, if you want to Have something anywhere from your heart and you may let it go.

[26:38]

Particularly spiritual life. You have to let it go. Later I will explain more about this point. Dogen Zen says in Bendoa you can read question 7. In its answer he explains this. really interesting sentence, a few sentences there. So our practice is not your practice. Our practice is Buddha practice. That's called subtle practice. We say subtle practice or wondrous practice. You don't know. You don't know this practice. It's really mysterious, mystical. But it works. It's not mystical. It works actually. So that is called wondrous practice. And then he says, you should let go of wondrous practice.

[27:45]

At that time, original enlightenment is filled in your hand. Original enlightenment means the artificial, the fake or true. Anyway, comes up, opens its own door. Very natural. But usually, if I emphasize subtle, wondrous practice, in which you can be, you can become Buddha, right now, right here. When you do that even for a moment, at that time, you really take hold of it. This is all what I want. Oh, thank God. that time it's very hard to realize the wondrous practice as it really is.

[28:47]

So that's why the one condition you have to take into account is a self who believes in the Dharma must be negated, must be free Anyway, let it go. This is one first important condition. In order to make your faith alive in your daily life, free from dualistic sense. But usually faith is understood in a dualistic sense. But it's not good enough. It is real Dharma, real truth. The door of the real truth is opened spontaneously when you are at the unfathomable depth of self-centeredness.

[29:54]

At the unfathomable depth of the self-centeredness. So through and through, if you, I told you anyway, I told you anyway, if you attain, if you experience something wonderful, wonderful experience, anyway, you have to let it go. Then if you let it go, you say, I let it go. Ah, I'm wonderful. But you should let it go too. Then next moment you say, I let it go second time. You should let it go second. Then you say, I got it. Then you should let it go third. So continuing you have to let it go. This is called freedom. This is freedom. This is a reality.

[30:58]

The ultimate source of reality, your present land. Your effort is always used. Your effort is always made right in the middle of the ultimate source of reality. This is your purpose, your reality. Then this reality, the ultimate source of reality is completely lucid and clear. That's why you You don't know, your interactive sense cannot reach, but it's very mysterious, wondrous, curious. That's why you are continually, you can see it. Your life is very curious. For instance, capability. Do you know your capability? How much do you understand your own capabilities?

[32:01]

Abilities. Whatever. Okay? You always judge your capability, abilities through your knowledge. What you have learned at the university and at the school or in the society or by the information coming from the others. You know. Your capability is this much. And then you believe it. But the real capability is we don't know. Don't you think so? We don't know. So, even though people say your capability is this much, you believe. But when you take care of your life, wherever, in whatever realms, whatever occupation you follow, if you really do your best to take care of your occupation, Then very naturally you can see wondrous capability which you have never seen before.

[33:09]

So capability just like a spring water coming from the bottom of the ground. Haven't you experienced this one? It's very true. So, that's why, even though people say your capability is this much, but you believe, but in other words, you don't believe it. Because you have to arrive. You have to survive in a certain realm of your occupations. And also, still you believe, consciously or unconsciously, your capability is very mysterious. You cannot pin down what it is. How much do you understand that capability? So very curious, very mysterious. That's why you can continually make effort, do your best to manifest yourself using your capability.

[34:16]

Don't you think so? Well, I graduated from Hong Kong University studying Buddhism. At that time I really believed I became a master of the Buddhist teaching, particularly Sankara. But he said, it's wrong. It was exactly wrong. So, at that time I believed my capability was virtuous. Huge, you know. When I came to the United States, I dreamed of my kippa being shrinking and finally disappearing. I was very confused and I felt sad. I didn't know what to do. But every day students come to the Sokochi temples to listen to my stupid talk. How can I stop it? Tony's always came to listen to my talk always.

[35:22]

So how can I stop it? I cannot stop it anyway. So still I believe in my capability, limitation of my capability, but I am right in the middle of reality. I cannot pin down. Should I depend on my capability or shouldn't I? No way. So all I have to do is, I don't know exactly what is my capability, but my effort was completely made right in the middle of mysterious situation of reality. No one knows. And then I have still survived. That's wonderful, isn't it? So, this is a depth of the absolute egolessness. The door of the Dharma, door of the truth is open spontaneously.

[36:25]

When being at the really unfathomable depth of absolute continuous egolessness, self-centeredness, let it go, let it go, anyway. Learn to do your best Do your best to do something with your one-pointedness, whole-heartedness and then let it go. Then do it again. Let it go. Do it again. Always. So very naturally, even though you don't get any ideas, any knowledge, your life becomes mature. Maturity is important for us, isn't it? Maturity is important. It's not necessary for you to become sharp or to say smart. I am not smart. I am not sharp. I am really dumb. But right in the middle of dumbness I can learn the human life.

[37:30]

So I can see the dim image of maturity in my life. That's wonderful. So Even though you don't know science, even though you don't know the biology, you don't know the psychology, it doesn't matter. Day by day. All you have to do is to make your life mature. How do you do this? This is a faith. The way-seeking mind. Effort. So, these are the two conditions. This is very important at that time. You really become experienced. Anyway, faith as a bodhicitta, the way-seeking mind in your daily living. As you know, Pre-World, in Buddhism, there is important teaching, so-called egolessness, selflessness, and also

[38:37]

Dependent Co-Origination. Do you know what Dependent Co-Origination is? Dependent Co-Origination is that all sentient beings are present by means of conditioning the element. countless conditioned elements. So this is our important so-called dependent co-origination and also egolessness. These two are very important to Buddhist teaching. So maybe you can think Three points, three things.

[39:41]

If you look at yourself and the human world, there are three important points which you take into account. First point is the presence of the eye. presence of the I as a subject, surrounded by others and all sentient beings. Because in the Buddhism, in Buddhism we believe like this, We don't believe the world exists first and then we become, we are born in this world. So world comes first. Then we are born in this world.

[40:50]

Buddhism we don't believe in that way. If you are born, then world comes up. So that world is Your world. So, whatever you can see, perceive, feel, all are something fabricated by you. So human world, universe is your universe. your inner self. So, if I look at the world, the world becomes mine. So my world there. So my world there, so wherever I can look at, they all are anyway belonging to my world.

[41:57]

My world. So not only America, not only San Francisco, or Japan or Israel and PLO anyway and refugees and whatever it is all becomes my world how do I know? PLO I know a little bit something about PLO through the magazines you know but I don't know exactly I cannot go to the city Anyway, Lebanon. Anyway, so I don't know, but anyway, Lebanon, and the PLO, and Israel, all anyway belong to my world. So, if I am born in this world, then my world, my death. If it is true. This is the first point, okay?

[43:00]

First point. So always Buddhism says all in one, one in all. In Buddhism if you use all, all things must be that which are perfectly related with you. At that time all things are what is called all not related with you we can't say all things so when only when all things are related with you that is called all things so I my personal existence is in all all things are present in one in me so if you read

[44:06]

Avatamsa Sutras and whatever the Diamond Sutras are being emphasized in this point. So, first point. Anyway, your presence, there is your presence surrounded by all sentient beings. Okay? So you can look at the huge world. That is all yours. And then how the people are connected? Connected with you. If world is mine, why is it that I have to take care of the people? Why is it that I have to help the people? So, second point. People or students exist. And trees, birds exist. Where? In my world. In my world.

[45:09]

So in my world, so you are, or everybody's are not real everybody. You are not real you. You are belonging to me. So in my world. So Robata is not a real Robata. Robata is a temporal provisional being. Because I am looking at the Robata. So Robata is not a real Robata. Robata is Robata fabricated by me. So Robata, Robata, Robata. So where is Robata? Robata is in my world. Do you understand? That's why I have to take care of it. Do you understand? Robata is not a completely different person from me. What is in my world? Everybody, tables, and Japan, PLOs, poor peoples, all are in my world.

[46:17]

That's why if you listen to a certain situation of people who are suffering from, they naturally you want to help. Because they are belonging to in your world. So if you look at your world, if you look at the world, The world is yours, OK? Not mine. So where's the karagiri? Karagiri is your world. So at that time, I cannot always, you know, scold you. I am Zen teacher. You're stupid. I cannot say so. Because I am in your world. So I must be you. I must be friendly with you. So I have to work with you hand in hand. You understand that? It's helping mutually each other. And working hand in hand from century after century.

[47:21]

This is very nice. And then very naturally among this relationship we can create compassion, friendliness, and kindness. not coming from the heaven anyway. Compassion, love, total love is very amount from the people. So that's why the world is mine but anyway second point is all sentient beings exist in my world. So all sentient beings are what? provisional being. We say provisional because I am looking at it. Do you understand? Then the third point. Third point are those two.

[48:23]

You surrounded by all sentient beings and also others existence, others presence you in my world are connected dynamically interconnected interdependent dynamically that is a third situation third point that is your reality that is my reality so according to the first point I say my world So I really hang on to my word, because I look at everything. I understand Zen, I understand Christianity, I understand PLO, but through my head. But you cannot always, I cannot always say, I understand PLO, I understand Buddhism, I understand Christianity, I cannot say so.

[49:26]

because study of the Buddhism or study of the human life is endless. So I cannot now, I have to let it go. Because my understanding is connected with others who are existent in my world. If so, I have to listen to Anyway, others abuse and I have to be good listeners to the people. So very naturally, I have to let it go. Oh my world! And may it help others. According to the second point, I always say, I want to help you. I want to help you. I want to help you. And then if I help somebody, I really feel good.

[50:28]

But I cannot solve it doing that. Why do I want to help you? Because I want to be a good boy. So to help others means a certain situation connected with my eagerness. I want to be a good boy. So very naturally I try to take hold of only second point. So where is, where am I? I am exactly in the third situation. The second, first and second, which are second, first and second are interconnected, interdependent. So in the middle of the third situation, so-called dependent co-origination, who I am? Why do I live?

[51:29]

Why is it I have to exist? Well, I don't know. I want to help in order to help humans and all sentient beings. That's why there is a reason why I exist. Uh-uh. Still this is ideas. How much can you help? Just a little bit. So, the reason why you exist is... nothing can be done. Because your individual presence doesn't make sense. Your individual presence comes into existence when it is completely interrelated, interconnected with others and all sentient beings. At that time your presence is very valuable.

[52:36]

So what is your presence? Your presence is in the first situation or second situation? No. Your presence in the reality is in the third situation. That is called dependent co-origination. So that's why faith is, faith is lucid and clear means you cannot pin down. Strictly speaking, in the ultimate source of reality you are present in, always a situation connected with all sentient beings. Nothing to take hold of something with your ideas. So finally you don't know. So according to your six consciousnesses you say it's fake.

[53:43]

Then you say it makes me confused. I don't think it makes you confused. Strictly speaking, it makes you free. Constantly. So, that is called egolessness. That's why egolessness is important to us. Because this ego... Why is it that we have to experience the egolessness, practice the egolessness constantly? Because that is a quality. Virtuous quality of the ultimate source or ultimate source means emptiness and the truth. Virtuous quality of the truth is anyway the real reality which is lucid and clear.

[54:47]

which your consciousness cannot reach. But you, your effort is made, always there. That's why it is something wondrous and mysterious and curious. That's why whoever you are, you are constantly can make an effort to do it something, to do something. If you can pin down what the reality is, real reality is. You cannot, there is no curiosity, no wonderfulness. So, there is no development. That's why if you always take care of your life through your knowledge and consciousness, then your life becomes very cold and very needy. but not deep not mature but if you take care of your life anyway doing your best with wholeheartedness right in the middle of real reality which is lucid and clear which your consciousness cannot reach at that time your life becomes mature constant day by day

[56:18]

That is the growth of your life. The deepness of your life. Depth of your life. Then, some day, you can get the big shock like this. That time, it is called enlightenment. Big shock or small shock. A medium sized shock. Whatever kind of shock. You can get the shock. Just slowly, shock penetrates slowly, sometimes. The shock immediately goes, penetrates you, your body and mind. Sometimes. It depends on the individual. That is called enlightenment. If you experience enlightenment, let it go. Because you must be in the realm of real enlightenment, so-called freedom, liberation.

[57:21]

Do you have a question, sir? I have a question. In the Prashna Paramita, it says to depend on, to believe in the teaching of dependent co-origination is for pratyakaya buddhists. But it gives us a multiplier. And shouldn't we try to be Bodhisattvas? Shouldn't we go beyond dependent origination? Well you said we find ourselves in a third situation where we should depend on co-origination and wouldn't that be to If you become a Bodhisattva in any way, let it go. The Bodhisattva you have reached.

[58:27]

Then that time it is called your Bodhisattva. I didn't understand how you, the job to freedom. You spoke of fabricating our world and all sentient beings and then you said freedom and I didn't understand either. Well, freedom must be understood in terms of a third situation you mentioned. That's what I don't understand. That's what you don't understand? That's what I don't understand. You don't understand? In the third situation I mentioned? I don't understand what freedom is. It's freedom because it's dependent on origination. Everybody is helping mutually. It's just like our emotions.

[59:30]

That sounds more like a pendulum. That is the situation of human life in terms of your sixth consciousness. But make it deep. More. Okay? Oh, Roshi, why is there a need for effort in discovering this? No reason. No particular reason. Because you cannot escape from effort. So you need... Compared to beyond, you need or you don't need. Yeah. I'm kind of stuck. I realize I need effort, but the other part of me says that you really don't. You're trapped. People are trapped in concepts.

[60:32]

You see someone, you have a concept or idea of what they are, but you don't really know what they are. One thing I see, it's not taking any effort. It's just kind of giving up on your preconceptions. Giving up your preconceptions? Yeah. That you understand that it's a... Yeah, in your head, you know, like who you think you are, things like that. It just... You cannot give up. You can't give up thinking. Because you're already thinking.

[61:33]

Constantly thinking. You cannot. So if you want to be free from thinking, you have to think with the whole-heartedness anyway. That's all. You don't know. It is. When you think wholeheartedly, that thinking is free from thinking or not thinking. It's not necessary to think in that way. That's what I mean. No effort. It's not no effort. Effort. But you need effort. But effort must be anyway digested with your body and mind. If you see, while you see the effort objectively, that is called effort. Knowing of effort. But you cannot do it in that way. Effort is constantly penetrating with your body and mind. So freedom means anyway thinking, nothing to give up.

[62:41]

Nothing to give up anyway. You have to continually be taking care of your thinking with all heartiness. And then at that time you think, thinking with wholeheartedness means to be free from thinking or to be not thinking. You think in that way. This is already thinking in Uttamaya. That is a characteristic of consciousness, constantly thinking. So in one sense you're... It's terrible. You don't really think. If you are in the middle, if you really understand, then there's no thinking.

[63:44]

There's not like a difference between you and where you are, what reality is. So in that sense, it's in the middle of that. Well, important point is not discussing in that way. Point is, no thinking is, what is it? Practical. No thinking must be alive in your life. Okay? What is it? No thinking about the rabbi. What do you mean this? What do you mean? It's hard. So, next. Anyway, it is a moral problem. The discussion. Never talking about it. If you're talking about, well, just take a... at the Diamond Sutra. Bodhisattva is... Bodhisattvas are Bodhisattva.

[64:56]

But Bodhisattva are not Bodhisattva. That's why Bodhisattva... This is real Bodhisattva. Now it's constant, we can say so. Endlessly. Because you are human beings are very smart, you know? Thinking constantly. Do you know the... Do you attain, have you ever experienced enlightenment and the truth? And the Zen master says, yeah, I know, it's clear. But how do you know? You know, the Zen master says, I don't know. So the monk says, if you don't know, how do you, how do you, how do you know? Enlightenment is existent. You know. Concentrate like this. So the master says, you are smart, that's enough. So finally you have to practice anyway.

[66:02]

Now practice is a process. No thinking of a robot means anyway take care of robot. Because nobody is in my world, in your world. What about when you have despair with the method? You're not sure if you're growing, becoming more mature. and not sure if the practice that you're doing is the one suitable for your growth. So when is the point where you say, well, I'm going to go chant rather than meditate or do Zazen? Or is there some way to gauge if your despair is part of your growth or if your despair is being sucked?

[67:06]

Not growing? Well, the spirit is also part of the growing. Right. In terms of the method, the process, how does one know when to change or to use a different process? Different process of what? Of practice. Different process of, oh, different process of practice. How do you change? What do you know to change? Let's say he's been doing yoga maybe for a couple of years and he feels a lot of despair. Does that mean maybe he should try Zazen? Or how do you do the yoga?

[68:18]

How do you know? Wow. Well, it comes up naturally. When you come to the dead end. Naturally. So, time to find a solution. So if you want to, if you don't want, that's alright. Maybe you have to hit your forehead, you have to fall once or twice, and then you can maybe turn to the different course, different way. If it's three times, I don't know. It depends on the individual. In my case, I don't know how often I hit my forehead.

[69:20]

You're still lucky. How often you hit your forehead. It turns out there are two points to making faith alive. The second one is that the door of the truth opens upon him instead. And he said some more, I didn't understand. I'm for the most depth of absolute self-centredness. We are. So that means a continuum. You should let it go. Let it go. Then when you let it go, let it go is simultaneously the door of Dharma opens.

[70:26]

Exactly. You shouldn't misunderstand. After letting go and then the door of the Dharma opens. I don't think so. Simultaneously. So the door of the Dharma opens spontaneously. It is something you cannot see. So what you can do is just to let it go. That time it is an opportunity, a great opportunity to let the Dharma open. When you were responding to Barry's question, you took the angle of freedom from thinking.

[71:52]

Is it possible to talk to the lady's question about freedom from, in the third line of thinking, critical origination? Where are we free from? Freedom means, if we explain that freedom, well, according to Buddhist teaching, it is called dependent co-origination. But practically, dependent co-origination must be found in your actual practice, actual daily life. So this is, that means where you are. Where you are? You are in the realm of two situations. First situation, second situation means two excessive ideas. I exist or others exist. From this point, first situation I mentioned, I exist.

[72:59]

I exist surrounded by all sentient beings. So whole world is mine. Mine. Then second situation is all sentient beings exist. But they are provisional beings because they exist in my world. So they are just beings in terms of my viewpoint. So they are not real beings. So provisional beings. So, we cannot attach to both, the provisional being or my IGN, my existence, my presence. OK? So, I cannot attach to either one of them. Because, third situation means, the third situation points out to the reality where you are present, constantly, day by day. That is reality with a capital R. OK?

[74:02]

Real reality. That is the third situation. Third situation. That means your presence in reality is supported by many countless number of conditioned elements. So who I am? I exist in reality by myself or by others? No. Well, anyway, dependent co-origination is my body and mind is exactly dependent co-origination. So it means, anyway, reality. The body and mind is alive in the real reality, which is lucid and clear. Because nothing to pin down. I or others. So I, others, all sentient beings, Anyway, helping each other, just like this.

[75:05]

This is my, say, presence in the reality. It's really dynamic. That is called freedom. Freedom. So one is free from either excessive view? Yeah, free from me, free from others. Nevertheless, we are connected free from me, free from others, but I am I, I am related with all sentient beings.

[75:48]

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