Excuse me for interrupting your naps and your break. If you'd like, you can move up in some rows or something here a little bit closer, or you can stay where you are. Do you want a cushion or anything? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what cushion is available. So, again, good morning.

[01:36]

Good morning. I thought I'd talk for a little bit. It's on the schedule here, Dharma Talk. And let's see how that goes. First of all, I'd like to mention that, you know, what I have to say is not something for you to, you know, it's not necessarily the case or so obvious that I know something that you don't, but it's a way of our spending time together. And it's a way for me to possibly say things that in some way stimulate or activate your own thinking, or perhaps shift it slightly.

[02:37]

It's not that I have the, you know, the correct thoughts and you don't. You know, if you go to school, usually they have, teachers have something to tell you and then you're supposed to learn what they tell you and be able to tell it back to them. You know, the proper understanding. And that kind of teaching, you know, can be measured. That's it. You know, whether you can add or subtract or, you know, know what indications, know what indicates what diagnosis and so forth, according to the book and according to common understanding. So this isn't that kind of teaching or talk that I, and in that sense that I know something, you know, that you don't. So in that sense it's more like part of an ongoing conversation.

[03:43]

And so this also means that, you know, at the end of this talk or later this talk, this afternoon after lunch, we have a question and answer. So if you have things to say about what I've said or responses or etc., then you have time. We'll take, you know, we'll have opportunities to continue the discussion in various forms. Does this make sense? This, in its way, is an important point. You know, and again, something Suzuku, she talked about that. And she said one morning, you think that I'm the teacher and that you're the students and I know things that you don't and I'm going to tell them to you. This is a wrong idea. It means that, you know, each of us has some capacity to find our way, you know,

[04:49]

to find your way in your own life and to see for yourself what you see and to understand what you've come to understand. And in some ways, I think of this at times as the, you know, most important point, that you are willing to experience things for yourself, to perceive for yourself, observe for yourself, and to trust what you perceive and observe. And what you perceive and observe, you know, is of course different than what you think. Once you translate it into thinking, then you may not have accurately described what you perceived or observed. This comes up, for instance, in communication skills workshops.

[05:52]

You know, can you describe what you observed without evaluating it? So, you know, people say things like, you make me mad. Is that something you observed or perceived? No, that's a story you just told yourself. You know, so to observe something is when you said that I didn't take care of my, what I agreed to take care of. When you said, whatever it was, when you said, I became mad. That doesn't say, that's different than you made me mad. So, we turn things very quickly into thinking, rather than being able to, what actually happened? What did you actually observe? What did you actually perceive? It comes up in cooking classes, and I tell this story often, but, you know, if I ask people to taste something in cooking class,

[06:56]

they say, what should somebody in the room usually will say? What should we be tasting? How much salt, you know, did you put in there? You know, I picked it up with my fingers, and I put it in there, and I tasted it. How much was that? Because, you know, and this is fundamental, because, you know, a lot of the time we would rather be right, than to actually perceive or observe something. So, can you just taste what's in your mouth? There's not something right. Can you connect your consciousness with your taste, with the sensations of taste? Can you connect your consciousness with the experience you're having? Or you don't, and if it's not the right,

[08:01]

or you get caught and say, if it's not the right experience to be having, I don't want to have it. I'm not going to have a wrong experience, thank you, anyway. And then sometimes you end up with the wrong experience. That's what happens to us, you know, we end up with the wrong one. And then when we have an unpleasant experience, you say, what did I do wrong? It's just an unpleasant experience, it's unpleasant. That's reality. You'll have some, you know, all of us will have some unpleasant experiences. Some of the things you perceive or observe will be unpleasant. Some of the sensations will be unpleasant, some of the feelings will be unpleasant, the emotions will be unpleasant, the thoughts will be unpleasant. .

[09:06]

So this, in some ways, in various ways is crucial to our lives and crucial to Buddhist understanding. Being able to perceive or observe for yourself and know for yourself what's what in your own awareness. To know what's what, but to know what's what clearly, accurately, not what you think is what. You make me mad. You make me happy. How does anybody do anything like that? Nobody's going to do that. It's one of the basic realities is that none of us can control somebody else's experience. Oh, I make you happy? Oh, great. Good. Six months later, a year later, or three years later, I guess you're not doing that anymore. Is that right? So this is, you know,

[10:43]

interesting to study. You know, what's important here? To be able to control somebody else's feelings, you know, or to meet them and connect with what they're feeling. So, you know, personally, I'd like to be able to control your feelings. I'd like you all to have a great time here and be really happy. And at the same time, I don't want that at all. I want you to have your experience and to be able to own it. You know, to actually have your experience, good or bad, right or wrong, happy, sad, pleasant, unpleasant. Have your experience and taste it carefully. Know it thoroughly. Become intimate with your experience. And this is one of the big advantages

[11:47]

of meditation is that it's pretty hard to say, you make me happy or sad. You're sitting there. It's you and the wall. In this case, the yurt. The little sticks crossing each other. Who can you blame for this? Being the way it is. Once you get into relationship or, you know, other situations, it will sometimes be hard. You make me happy. You make me sad. You make me mad. No one's doing this. So this morning, to continue in this vein, you know, I want to talk with you a bit more about this. You know, it's part of the difference between kid talk and adult understanding. And, you know, as kids, certain things are very important. And healthy. And then, but then if you

[13:04]

go on being a kid for the rest of your life, it's now, you know, more and more it becomes less and less healthy the older you get to go on being a kid. And so in some ways, you know, we could also say that Zen practice or Buddhism is about growing up. What would that look like? So, you know, part of a kid talk or, you know, it's a magical thinking. And it's taking responsibility. You know, it's healthy as a child to take responsibility for what's going on in the room and in the family. And this starts when we're very little. Perhaps even in the womb,

[14:12]

but certainly once we're born, you know, we're just going to feel what's in the room. And we don't know whose it is. If you feel, if there's anger in the room, you'll feel anger. And you won't know mom's, you know, angry at dad. Or dad's upset at his bosses. Or you won't know if there's stress or anxiety. You won't know that it's, you know, financial issues. So as a child, we pretty quickly, you know, you will try, you know, as babies, we want, we try to do something about that. How are you going to fix it? It's painful. It hurts. And you don't know what's going on, but you want to fix it. So there's various ways to fix these things. And, you know, as babies,

[15:20]

we learn and then we continue to learn as children. How do I fix this? And we're not even thinking about it. This is not conceptual. Bodies, people, you know, we start to try to fix this. And how can you behave so that this experience doesn't happen again? The experience, it's painful. And sometimes, you know, you, babies will feel what's in the room and they cry. Because it hurts. And then, you know, mom and dad say, don't cry, we love you. So is that what love means? If I love you, then don't cry. Don't be unhappy. Don't be sad. Don't be scared. But it's kind of ironic because they're just feeling what's in the room and it's probably

[16:24]

not theirs. They're just feeling your feelings and they're crying. And you're being an adult and you don't cry. So we learn, you know, to do, basically, you know, approval-seeking behaviors. So if somebody says, don't cry, then pretty soon, you don't cry. They tell you not to cry. They love you. So everything is good. And you know what? You were wrong to feel whatever it was you were feeling that, you know, maybe it was about to make you cry or made you cry. Made you cry. You're just feeling what's in the air. So this is where made to, you were made to,

[17:24]

comes from. It comes from our experience. Maybe when you're a baby, you are made to. You don't have the capacity to, you're not thinking about things. You're not conscious in that way. You don't know until, you know, between three and four years old what's the difference between me and you. And if you're a good mommy and bad mommy are the same people. And that if mom isn't there, literally, she's still there and she'll be back. And you know, it takes a long time to learn these things. So I'm going to try to say this now, but you know, as adults, then we can still think that the, what's important, we can think that what's important is that I behave in a way that the others are not upset. Is that true? Because that if they don't get upset, that would show that they

[18:37]

love me and that I'm okay. I'm a good person. If they get upset, then I must have done something wrong. This is child thinking. I must have done something wrong. If others are upset, I must have done something wrong. And I made them upset. They have no capacity on their own to, like, observe and study or know or understand. You know, and if they get upset, it's not because they were tired or they have the flu or they're sick or they have financial worries. If they get upset, it's my fault. I did that. I made them that. And so I have to try to be careful to behave in a way that doesn't upset them, that doesn't cause them any

[19:41]

problems. And then we keep trying to do that as adults. And, you know, as adults, we think, well, I'm a, I'm grown up now. I could get better at this. And if I behave well enough, and especially if I become a Buddhist, who's, who can get upset with me being a Buddhist? I mean, it'd be one thing if I was selling junk bonds. People could be upset with me, but I'm a Buddhist. So how could anybody be upset about that? So anyway, there's a, there's a point where we think what's important is that I behave in a way that nobody's upset and that I behave in a way that, you know, I can, I can get better at doing, doing things and being the person I should be so that nobody's upset. And so that I, I'm not upset because if I'm in any kind of pain, I must have done something wrong. And people will

[20:51]

coach us on that when we're little too. If you're unhappy or scared or, you know, sad, then, you know, mom and mom and dad will say, what's wrong? They don't say, usually, oh, you seem really sad. I wonder what happened. They usually say, what's wrong? What's wrong? It's not something I did, is it? So we're studying all this. What's actually going on and can you actually perceive and observe what happens? And notice when you're thinking or understanding this child, thinking or understanding when it's a dog. And so, you know, a child's idea of trust is, I trust you not to hurt me. Bless you. I trust you not to hurt me and if you do, you meant to. And I deserve it. This is a child's understanding.

[21:57]

I trust you not to hurt me and if you do, you meant to. And I deserve it. So it, whether it's mom and dad or, you know, it's some higher power. If I do something, and this is the Old Testament version, you know, you do something that God disapproves of and you're going to get, he's going to hurt you for that. Like any loving parent would. It's for your own good. So, the adult, you know, sensibility about trust is, I can trust my observations and my perceptions. Sometimes I notice that things, that experiences are pleasant. Sometimes I notice they're unpleasant. I notice that I don't seem to have the capacity to make all my experiences, one after another, invariably pleasant. I don't seem to be able to do that no matter how hard I try. And in fact, when I try

[23:10]

hard enough, I make myself wrong for not being successful at that. Making everything pleasant and perfect and wonderful. I must be bad. I must be wrong because I can't do that. What's wrong with me? I'm a bad person and I deserve to be punished because I can't make my experience and everybody else's continuously and successively happy, pleasant, wonderful, positive. So, is something wrong with me? What's wrong with me? How do I fix this? How do I fix me? So, this is a whole body of, you know, a way of being, of thinking, of living, you know, aimed at, you know, not doing anything wrong. Being able to control your experience and other people's experiences. And when things are

[24:15]

unpleasant or unhappy or painful, somebody is to blame. Probably me. It's my fault, probably. Some people get to be good at blaming others, but most of the time, we become good at blaming ourselves. This is, you know, the most common kind of life lesson. I'm not good enough. It's my fault. If I was better, then unpleasant things like this would just not be happening around me. It could be happening to somebody else who's not that good, but not to me. So, if you were to be studying, or when we begin to study, you know, what's important here, you know, most of us need to keep shifting or adjusting our idea of what's important.

[25:33]

And so, one of the ways I describe this, you know, shifting from, you know, performance to presence. Performance is where you have a good performance. Looking good. Behaving properly and well. And nobody's upset with you. Painful things, either you're able not to notice them. And this is one of the things about performance, is oftentimes, the more we can be in, the better we are at being in performance, the less we can actually notice what's going on. Because at some point, it becomes impolite, you know, to notice what's actually going on.

[26:44]

I trust you not to hurt me, and if you do, you meant to. But actually, you know, we feel hurt, you know, various things happen and we feel hurt. Does that mean somebody meant to? And does that mean you deserve it? And that kind of thinking helps you into, you know, how can I perform better, so that this doesn't happen. And performance is also, by the way, you know, associated with dissociation, connected with dissociation. When things are really painful as children, then we just, you know, it's psychologically, without having to think about it or make any decisions, you know, our psyche knows how to dissociate.

[28:03]

Dissociate is to not be aware of what's going on. To just not have anything connect to anything. I'm talking from personal knowledge, I'm not talking book knowledge. People who, when you're dissociated, then you're able to say things like, if I could say I was lost, that would be a step forward. Dissociation is, your experience is not connecting with your thinking, is not connecting with your feelings, is not connecting with your emotions. Nothing connects. You're not there. If you were there, it would be too painful as a child. Certain things would be too painful. So you have to go, you have to psychologically, you know, your psyche knows to just go away. I'm not here. And you're just somewhere else. And this somewhere else, you know, we, this is, we're all to some, you know, have this capacity to some degree. Some of us are, you know, extremely professional at this. It takes some serious study to shift one's capacity to dissociate into a capacity to connect and associate.

[29:31]

Yeah. So if you have traumatic experiences as a child and dissociate from them, it makes, as an adult, it makes you harder, it makes it harder for you to connect. Yes. It will make it harder for you to connect. The feelings and emotions around unpleasant or pleasant circumstances. Yeah, anything. Yeah. Because anything that, it's a kind of, yeah, it's a kind of defense. It's a kind of way to, like, if something gets a little unpleasant, you're just not going to be there. Yeah. And to actually have connection means you're choosing to meet yourself, meet others, meet circumstances, meet situations, and observe, perceive what's going on. And it doesn't, it's not always going to be pleasant. And then, can you, you know, show up for what's not pleasant as well as for what's pleasant.

[30:42]

And this is what I call presence. Shifting from performance to presence, which is, I also call showing up. You show up. And then you own up, you know, show up and own up. Oh, I'm unhappy, I'm scared, I'm sad. Oh, you're unhappy, scared, sad. And then, you know, and then presence is to be able to, you know, is to just, in the simplest form, is to just be with that. It's not trying to fix it. It's not trying to make it go away. That's going into the directives, the approval seeking, the, I will, I can fix that. You know, I can handle that. I can, you know, can we, do we have any, some permission to just notice and perceive what's going on and not to kind of, like, try to marginalize the pain.

[31:44]

Yeah, try to mitigate it. Mitigate it, yeah. So, this is why, you know, if I may say so, this is why most of the world, you know, is not so interested in meditation. Because meditation, you know, unless you're, you know, at some point you can get better and better at meditation so that, you know, you can, you can dissociate while you're sitting. But, you know, it's more challenging to dissociate while you're sitting than it is in your regular life. Right, because it's getting, it's like you can get better and better at meditation so you can dissociate. Yeah, when you get, when you've done enough meditation, then, you know, you can sit and dissociate. But that's why we used to have people hitting you with a stick. Come back here, show up. Um, you know, but now you can just wander off and be someplace else and, you know, who's going to find you?

[32:46]

Right, I mean, is that the same as dissociating? Well, you know... You're disconnecting with something. Yeah, we are connecting with something and at the same time, you know, this connection is, you know, more and more to do. So, I just, you know, it's one of the things that can happen in meditation. Largely, as I say, largely meditation means you're going to be present, you're going to show up, you're going to own up. I've got all this thinking going on. Boy, my legs hurt, you know, you're actually, you know, in the midst of all this stuff going on and there you are with it all. And you're not able to, and then you say to yourself, I can't do this, I can't make this the way I want it to be. I can't make this beautiful and picture perfect and peaceful and calm. You know, and then you either say, so I'm not going to meditate or you say, well, I'm going to sit with it. You know, if you're going to be, if you're going to try to be the, you know, maybe, you know, a lot of times I think that people's strategy, you know, and this is, again, what's your strategy going to be?

[34:00]

Do I just stay in my comfort zone and live the life that I can handle and do well and people don't criticize me? Or do I end up wandering off into areas that I'm not very good at? And I can't make it picture perfect. And meditation is one of those places where you're not going to be able to make it picture perfect. And so largely it's an occasion where you own up, you show up and you own up to what's actually happening and to the fact that you can't make it as presentable and, you know, presentable, you know, as a performance or a picture as you would like. So then you go, oh, okay, since I can't do that, and little by little and over and over again you become convinced of that, so now what do I do? Maybe I could learn to actually be with all of this that is less than perfect, it's not my picture, it's not my idea, and I could learn to be with all this stuff.

[35:03]

But when you decide, when you dissociate, it's out of your control and you get dissociated and then it's like, we don't need to worry about what's going on, we're just sitting here and we'll just wait for it to be over. And then we'll find a little, in the midst of that, we can set up a little, what in Zen is called setting up a little nest or a den, and you can have a little place to hang out and make it kind of spiritual there. And it's, you know, this is, I'll give you an example of this, one of the examples I've been thinking of lately is people here like Buddhism, they teach like, well, equanimity. Wouldn't it be good to have equanimity? Huh? You know, like, equanimity, you wouldn't have these dramatic highs and lows, you'd just have equanimity. Doesn't that sound great? You know, that sounds, you know, equanimity, ease, equanimity, that would be, right?

[36:13]

So, equanimity, literally, you know, in some ways, equanimity is not something that you can practice. You know, exactly. I mean, maybe you can practice, but equanimity literally is that you have the same feeling, the same take on pleasure and pain. Unpleasant, unpleasant. It's the same to you. That's equanimity. But, you know, what people think is, if I have equanimity, huh? And you don't, do you recognize unpleasant or pleasant feelings? That's the point. That's the point. That true equanimity is, oh, this is painful, oh, this is pleasant, and you're able to meet that, you know, it's the same. Because you're just going to meet whatever shows up, okay, show up, own up, meet what's arising, and it's the same to you.

[37:15]

And you don't go like, well, I don't want this, and I want that, and, you know, it's like the world is a restaurant or something. I'm sorry. You're not going to be able to order what you want. So this is true equanimity, you know, is to actually have the experience, and it's the same. But, in fact, what happens when people hear equanimity is, I will be careful not to experience the things that might upset me. So, and then I can, and then I'll have equanimity. So I can have a, you know, and if I'm not getting that in my meditation, I'm not going to meditate. And if my work is too stressful, you know, I'm not, I'm going to get another job. But, you know, sometimes it's important to get another job. You know? There was a speaker yesterday who mentioned being partisan, and I can't really give too much of a description for that. That sounds a little bit like dissociation, yes. Yeah, it's like she said, she described it as like having your foot on the gas and your foot on the brake at the same time.

[38:21]

And, I mean, it's for me that like, you know, when I was in a situation in which I was, like you said, like trying to mitigate those experiences and trying to tell myself, well, alright, this is unpleasant, but I'm just going to, you know, accept that it's pleasant. You know, basically just be like, accept, okay, this unpleasant experience is okay. And this pleasant experience, that's okay. You know, like, and not really experience them, but just, just like you kind of be frozen. Kind of like, but at the same time, if you're not needing that, then this kind of energy kind of builds up. Yes. And I find that, like, trying to take the brake off a little bit and meet those experiences, you know, I have almost now this heightened, like, I guess I'm, to be honest, I'm needing the difficulty involved in actually meeting the experience. Yes. Because when you meet things, you don't know what will happen, and you're not in charge anymore.

[39:30]

And something happens, it's, you know, it's, you know, this is why, you know, at Dogen, and others say about meditation, Masao Abhi's translation was, Zazen meditation is beyond human agency. It's beyond your doing or not doing, or, you're not in charge anymore, you're not in control. When you meet, or, you know, when you stop going through the motions and throw yourself into your life, into a moment of your life, then you're not in charge, you don't know what will happen. This comes up all the time in cooking, why don't people cook? Well, because they can't control it. You're going to be lost there. You'll be, and we started yesterday with, you'll be in the dark. When you really throw yourself into, or, you know, you take your foot off the brake and you actually meet things, and you meet the difficulty, you know, you're not, you don't know what your reaction will be, you don't know what will happen.

[40:41]

And so, we're careful about meeting things, because if I'm careful about meeting things, I can meet things just enough so that I can, if I meet it anymore, I know, like, I'm going to start to cry, or I'll be angry, I'll be frustrated, so, not meeting that, not taking that in as fully as I might. And so, you know, we study these things. We study, we know, you know, so, and ideally, again, meditation is a place where you can go ahead and meet what's arising, because it's a safe place to do that, and you can trust your, you know, trust in Buddhism is to dive into the depths of your experience and have it. And when you actually dive into the depths of your experience, things become clear. And all of these concerns, and, you know, the difficulty you're talking about, about not meeting things, is when you're on the surface, not meeting things, and not diving into the depths, that can be scary, or upsetting, or worrisome, or, you know, anxiety, or, because I don't know what's going to happen, and this looks to me like, but when you dive into it, you actually can meet things, and clarify things, and observe, perceive, and know what's going on.

[42:02]

And respond to what's going on, rather than responding to my take on what's going on from a superficial perspective, from the perspective of, you know, will I still look good, will I still be able to control my response, and my reaction, and my, you know, and will I look good, and will everything still be okay. There's feelings of inadequacy, and anxiety. Yes. I'm getting to the point where not meeting things is feeling quite unnatural. You know, like, why can't, okay, if I just go ahead and do it, it feels just like totally natural. At least, I have the sense that it will feel totally natural. But being in the position where I'm not willing to take a certain responsibility feels unnatural. And I'm coming from a place in which, you know, sometimes I overcompensate. Like you were saying earlier, in the talk, sometimes you take too much responsibility for the feelings that are going on in the room.

[43:04]

Yes. So, my question is coming from, um, this doesn't really present for most of the time. When you say this, you mean you? No, me. Very quickly, I'm not... You know, I've got the whole image around being in control, and most people enjoy thinking about their thoughts. Because that's... This is what our society asks everybody to do. You know, and then people look good if they're in control. I was talking with Marjorie yesterday about Cesar Malone. Is it Cesar Malone, Marjorie? Yes. The Dog Whisperer. He's in control. So people love him, you know, he's best selling books because he's in control. I don't love him. Well, but millions of people buy his books and get his movies and stuff because they think...

[44:09]

And this is, they're then teachers too. You know, the most popular teachers are teachers who are... I'm masterful, I'm calm. And I do not beat you. I'm masterful, and you know, if you grovel enough and do what I tell you, one day you might be masterful too, like I am. This is not helping. So you're, but you see, you're not smart enough to be with that kind of teacher. You're kind of, you know, lost in the dark with a teacher like me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry for you. And, you know, and then, you know, my way of being a teacher is, oh, are you lost in the dark too? Well, you know, let's hang together here. And, you know, rather than, I know what to do, and I'm going to tell you what to do. And, you know, it's also about, oh, being not so presentable.

[45:16]

What's the problem there? I'm not clear about this. That bothers people? Is it actually bothering them? Because do they come and say, Marcia, stop that, it's bothering me? Or how do you know it's bothering them? The last time I was in a place where somebody was crying, I think we were all very touched, and our hearts went out to the person. But I guess for you it's different. When you're crying, people kind of come and like... It feels like I owe an explanation. You owe an explanation? I cannot really explain myself. Sometimes I ignore them. Oh, so they come to you and they say, Marta, would you explain yourself? That sounds like kid talk to me. Yeah, what's wrong? Yeah, what's wrong, and explain yourself.

[46:19]

That's where mom and dad come up and they say, explain yourself. But that's an old one. That's not a new one. So I don't know that you need to explain yourself, but maybe you do. Maybe you've got some... I'm not completely unable to explain myself. Yeah, but you feel some like, I should be able to explain myself, yes. Yeah. You should. I mean, if you want mom and dad to understand, they're the authorities. You know, they're the authorities. And there's plenty of authorities. Yeah, there's a lot of good authorities. Yeah, well, that's... Anything else you need to explain yourself. But, you know, so you may need to... I don't know. You may not be able to do that. Sounds like you can't do that, so...

[47:19]

And I'm also... This is a big challenge, by the way. You're not the first person who can't explain this. And it's not that, oh, I have certain thoughts, and with certain thoughts, certain fears come. It's not like that. I can be in a room, I was in this room just a couple minutes ago, resting, and it was just so sweet that my fears come. And I don't know what's happening. There's nothing happening, really. I cannot explain it. And? I think some postures... With the postures, some things happen, and I have no idea what's going on. Somebody could give me an explanation. She deserves it. Yeah. So... You know, there's a difference here between...

[48:23]

You know, part of what we're learning or studying, I'll give you this suggestion, is how to be the parent that you never had, that you always wanted. So the parent you had apparently said, explain yourself. You know, you owe it to us. Because we don't... You know, your experience is beyond us. We don't... We have no recollection of what it's like to have been little and small and a baby. And we're not interested in having that kind of experience, so grow up and explain yourself. And whatever, you know. But, you know, also that parent could have said, Oh. So you cry without any reason. You don't... And you don't know what the reason is. And you have no explanation for it. Uh-huh. And is there more you want to tell me about that? How is that for you? And you... You know, and you shift how you relate to the fact that you can't explain things.

[49:24]

And nobody says you have to explain things. And talk to yourself a little differently. To me, differently would give a different result. Uh-huh. Yeah. I'm doing this, like, full-time now, because I can... Full-time now. So much so that I can really come to the experience very fast. Yeah. Do you have a few questions? Explanations are overrated, because basically, you know, there's what your heart feels and knows. And the explanation is what your head thinks. So what does your head have to say about this? Not much. Yes. Kolei. Well, I think that even if you can explain it or not, it doesn't change it for me. But what I wanted to say is that, um... One thing that I've been thinking about lately

[50:25]

is taking confidence in my vulnerability. Because I'll always be vulnerable. But I used to not be vulnerable. You were. I didn't know that. So what's important here? To be masterful or to be willing to be vulnerable? You know, and at some point, you know, after years and years of struggle, you know, to... And, you know, sometimes, you know, people take years as in practice. And sometimes it takes, you know, 20 or 30 years before you get convinced that, you know, you are not going to be able to be masterful in the way you thought you could. Some people just do not give up on this very easily because they realize that they can try harder to be masterful and capable and on top of things. And then, you know, various things happen. You know, you have shifted into vulnerability

[51:27]

without even having to get cancer. My goodness. I mean, how about that? Or, you know, like Job, you know, festering skin boils. Here you are being vulnerable anyway. Oh, well. All right. So it's about time for us to call an end to the morning here. We are going to take an hour for lunch. So I have about 12.45. So that means meeting back here at 1.45 at which time we are going to have a question and answer period. A period for you to bring up other concerns or interests or responses to the talk and so forth. And we will go on from there. I hope this was okay. It seemed like Brendan's concerns

[52:28]

and what Marta was bringing up is kind of related to all of this. So I hope that was useful for you because at some point, you know, I have to, you know, sometimes, you know, the teachers can get into a particular kind of context with somebody and certainly the rest of them is kind of like, excuse me, or like, what does that have to do with me or us? Anyway, I was feeling like maybe this is relevant for everybody, but, you know, so if you have something that is more relevant for you that we didn't get to, after lunch, please, come forward. Show up, own up, fess up. Bring it up. All right, thank you. Have a good lunch. Bon Appetit. And we have some little chant cards here now for our meals, but for lunch today, with your bag lunch, you are on your own. Are we on silent? No, bag lunch today is, you know, talking, but, but again, but again, talking means,

[53:29]

but when I say talking, it's still, the meditation hall, the yurt here, the area around the yurt is still quiet. So if you're talking, it's like when you get to lunch or when you get away from our sanctuary here. People have different strategies about this, you know, so I'm endeavoring to have this kind of, you know, we are distinguishing areas and places and boundaries, and, you know, so we're going to see if we can do that. If not, we'll do something else, you know. It'll end up being what it is, you know. But we'll try that. Thank you. So one hour, whatever your watch says.

[54:10]

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