Yeah, which is interesting. I had the privilege of organizing at one time the Pablo Casals Masterclass. I think I mentioned it to you. Since we're on the subject, I'll tell you three things I learned from him. He was probably, most of you would know who he is, but he was the considered the greatest cello player in the world when I was younger. For some reason, I got this job where I was supposed to organize this conference with him, music. About a week, I guess. And the first thing he did every day when he was going to start the class, he arrived about, I don't know, nearly half an hour early.

[01:01]

And he just pulled up a chair, sort of behind the kind of stage and curtains. And he pulled up a chair in the side and just sat in the chair upright, didn't do anything. He sat there for usually around half an hour. And then when the class was gathered, and there was about, I don't remember how many cellists, but let's say six or eight or something like that. And one had just come in second or third in the Moscow music, the thing Van Cliburn won at one time, some kind of international competition.

[02:26]

One of the students. So he said to this student who was playing, he said, your fingering is fine. It produces the note. But he said, your hand doesn't look beautiful. And he moved his fingers and he said, now you can hit the same note, but your hand looks beautiful. If your hand is beautiful, the note will be more beautiful. And I said, oh, okay. Then somebody else was playing. And he said, you're not really hearing the notes. He said, when I'm playing, I know that the people here in the front row are who's paying attention and who's not.

[03:38]

He said, when I'm playing, performing, and I know up in the balcony who's paying attention and who's not. And I can feel the drop of sweat running down my side. And yet I hear the one note. And I was just beginning to practice Zen in those days. And it all sounded like he was talking about Zen to me. But from his own experience. Now I also suggest to you often a phrase to pause for the particular. And I sometimes modify that to pause for the pause.

[04:42]

One Once you discover that there's always a pause, then you can pause for that pause. And if we, you know, make that somewhat related to what Jascha Heifetz and Pablo Casals... demonstrate and said. The particular, somehow bringing yourself into the particular. Into the trivial. And is a place where these various ways of mind can open up.

[05:53]

It's like you're touching the tuner, the knob. And most of what I'm talking about here Yeah, little to do with Buddhism. Pablo Casals and Jascha Heifetz seem to have come to this from who knows what their life experience was, but partly through their instrument. And I came to be able to hear as teachings Pablo Casals' behavior. Through my Zen practice. But in either case, what we're talking about is looking really closely as a teacher at our own experience. Then can we

[07:04]

produce, generate, develop a mind, which can notice our own experience. Of course, in Buddhism that's mindfulness practice. But we develop mindfulness practice so that we can notice our own experience. We don't really develop mindfulness practice so we can be a Buddhist. It sort of works, but it's kind of a dumb way to go about it. Yeah. We develop mindfulness practice to notice our own experience, and then our own experience teaches us. Okay, sorry. Are we okay?

[08:19]

Did I get a little too crazy here? Someone else. Adding to what Andreas said, I would like to add something of my own relating to consciousness and awareness. And myself, when I feel or sense that I get entangled in a narrowing consciousness, then I, what I then do is that I try to sense the space, especially the space behind my back.

[09:30]

Because the space before my body is a kind of consciousness already there. And to get out of this visual field, I try to feel the space behind me. When I get out of this visual space, I just get out of it and I try to sense that's what's behind me. And this then catches the whole space and I get more awake. That's exactly right. That's exactly my experience. But I've never presented it as a... particular way to practice, so I'm going to start saying and I'll give you credit. Now here's a practice I suggest, footnoted, Chris Dunn. Yes. Watch, be careful of that finger. It relates again to what Christoph just said because I have a similar experience where it's not about I don't try to feel the space behind me but I try to relax into the space sort of

[11:02]

it's kind of opening up, but it feels like I relax something, and it starts at the pelvis region somewhere. And then it's sort of, the other is, I couldn't always say what happens, but it's not dissolved, it's not soaked up, but somehow it's changed. So it's quite similar, the feeling probably, changed from there up, and yeah, it's different than afterwards. The feeling is... I don't feel the space behind me, but I relax in the space, out of this area, and from there I open something. It doesn't change the space, it doesn't dissolve it, but it changes it in any case. What you say reminds me of that. Yes, I particularly like in both your examples the sense this non-conscious space can even get a feel for it and then bring it around and transform the more consciously determined space.

[12:09]

When it gets more narrow for me, this is something that I'm drawn into a situation. And the classical recommendation is to open up here and to make yourself wider. And this is what I noticed in a talk with another person that I open up and get straight and I get wider here. This has a real effect. Is this recommendation from a psychotherapy? That's good. Thanks. Yes, body work. I gave a little tribute to my friend Michael Murphy the other day.

[13:39]

He had an intuition about these things years ago. And as a result, without going into more detail, he founded Esalen on his family's Pacific Coast summer house. And much of the bodywork and psychotherapy and gestalt Rolfing and all came out of Esalen. Someone else? Yes. As I understand the Zen practice, to come into being means to create external circumstances for me.

[14:49]

For me, Zen is like a smithy where I learn to overcome myself, to accept uncomfortable life. as I understand that practice of getting to awareness is also overcoming outward obstacles and like a forge where I forge myself to also accept unpleasant things. To strengthen the body, to strengthen above the body. To strengthen the body I mean, for example, not to take the train, but to ride a bicycle. And also what is important is to strengthen the body. And what I mean by that is, for example, if I have a choice, going by train or by bike, going by bike, and also nourish myself, the physical nourishment has to be conscious and to be conscious in all these things.

[16:00]

And about strengthening the body, I myself also do martial arts. For me, this is my way of strengthening the body. This is important working with the body and strengthening the body is important for me because I'm also doing martial arts. This is very important, strengthening the body. Yes, and that is also one thing, to strengthen the body, but also to learn uncomfortable things, so not to sleep too much, for example, or, as I said, to overcome this conscious nutrition or also the convenience, to reflect for me what it does to me Also not sleeping too much, not having too many commodities, and seeing if I sleep little or conscious with myself, and seeing what it does with me and to me, for myself.

[17:29]

And this power was my task from my Zen master. The task in Japan is called Ichokemi, sometimes suffering forces. But it was a task I got from a Zen Master. This strength and this power which I have to do is with wholeheartedly and with the whole body just to get this power. Wholeheartedly. Okay. That's good. I understand, so it's the same practice. Yeah. Did martial arts lead you to Zen or vice versa? In Freiburg I have a bicycle and whenever I have a chance I ride the bicycle. And I considered coming here by bicycle but you would have had to wait.

[18:37]

Andreas had been calling me on my cell phone. Where are you now? My neighbor might do it. The guy who lives upstairs from me goes to France. You know, he says, I need a little break this afternoon. He rides his bicycle to France. My neighbor there, he's one of them. He takes his bike and drives to France. France is only half an hour away by car, but still, it's a ways. At least with a car, it's still half an hour, but that's already a ways. When I have a bodily feeling of feeling well-being, then emotionally also I'm feeling quite well. I don't feel well in a bodily sense, also emotionally or psychologically I don't feel well.

[19:54]

For example, I heard that you had cancer and I would like to know how your experience was there. Could you develop a feeling of well-being despite the cancer and the pain you probably had? Did the psyche help you to perceive the physical as negative or how did it work for you? getting older and getting more... You're getting older? No, no, generally, I'll get to it more precisely in a second, feeling more or less tensions. I heard that you were having cancer. And how did you go about it? How did you manage that? What did you do with the pain? Were you able to produce a feeling of well-being? How could you go about that? Well, he was my doctor. Well, one of the doctors. Yeah, but we couldn't have done it without you.

[21:06]

Yeah, a bunch of guys got together and gals and tried to keep me alive. Yeah. I don't know. You know, I just got it, right? And lots of my friends my age and men my age also got it about the same time. I didn't expect you because there's no cancer that I know of in my family. And my doctor couldn't believe it because he thought I was so healthy that for two or three years he didn't worry about telling me I should be checked.

[22:16]

But I found out during a December Sashin, where you were at the Sashin, right? So after the Sashin, I asked Neil and, what, five or six other people, something like that? What should I do? And since I had no health insurance or anything like that, I thought, well, should I treat it or not treat it? And I called up my friend Ivan Illich, who had cancer in his cheek, and he didn't treat it. He felt God gave him this and so he lived with it. But he said later he decided he and his brother was a doctor. He just said later I just I probably would have treated it, but by the time I decided to, it was too late.

[23:37]

So Neil and others recommended a doctor and they raised money and somehow I'm still here. And I was told that if I didn't treat it, which was what, four years ago now, something like that, A little less? What? A little less? Three years? Four years? Three years. I would have been dead two years ago, or at least considerable. So I think it's better that I'm alive. But I never thought about it that way. It's just the situation I've been in. Whatever happened was okay with me. And I don't present that as anything.

[24:49]

It just was the way it was. I don't present it as I was brave or I wasn't brave. It's just the way it was. There was one moment when I had one test, which I can remember a moment or so of fear about what would happen if the test went the other way. But that's the only moment of fear or concern I had in all. And maybe it's just because I'm dumb, you know. And it may be that, I mean, I'm not able to feel things, but it may also be that practice had something to do with it. I don't know I don't I really didn't think about it much it was just the situation and since I had a Now a two-year-old daughter or so at the time, it seemed better if I stayed alive.

[26:06]

My question was a little different. How do you deal with unavoidable pains or unavoidable bodily non-well-being feelings? How do you deal with that? Not to get into psychic not-well-feeling. You partly answered that in saying that you didn't put sort of bad thoughts into the situation, but I feel for myself that I don't feel so well or I get in a bad state or a bad mood, bad state of mind, when I'm bodily not feeling well.

[27:23]

Let me understand. When you're bodily not feeling well, it then affects your state of mind. I think that's fairly normal. And I... You know, I don't know all the answers, obviously. But I've been doing this stuff for a long time, so I have some feelings about it. And there are things you can do to prevent a bad state of mind or something from influencing your state of mind. But really more basic than that, and what I prefer to, this position I prefer to take, is it's better just not to care?

[28:29]

And I think what Wolf said a few minutes ago, that when, I don't know what you put, something discomfort or something, unpleasant happens, you accept. Well, I think that the yogic turning point in something like that, and it can be anything, like bad weather. Like right now, suddenly, if you have to go home on your bicycle, and it's pouring rain, you think, oh, yeah, it's pouring rain. The minute you feel the resistance, the feeling, oh darn, it's raining. You make use of that experience of resistance to accept the weather as it is. So what you do, whether it's a headache or a cancer or whatever, you immediately turn that into a mind of acceptance.

[30:16]

And you develop that over some time. So what you're doing is you're generating an initial mind of acceptance. But then there can be a secondary mind of, geez, I don't like this, I don't accept it, or something like that. But in effect, you've trained yourself to always have in every situation an initial mind of acceptance. It changes everything. It really does change everything. And he... It's not just for the big things, the bad things. Every little thing you generate. As I say, when you come in a door, I often say, use the going through the door to stop and just feel the room and accept the room as it is.

[31:19]

And then whatever you do, enter the room and whatever you do. So you develop an initial mind in every situation of acceptance. And so if that really becomes your habit, like yesterday I felt a little flu coming on, I could feel it in my fingertips. I could get a little cold. Oh, I see. And it's like I see a train coming down the track. Called the flu train. And it's coming down the train, cough, cough, cough. OK, OK, OK. And I'd say, nobody here at the station, go on by.

[32:40]

And usually it goes on by. But if it stops, Well, we don't have much time, maybe, if we're going to end it. somewhere in the vicinity of four, maybe we shouldn't have a break and just continue a little bit? Yesterday, last night, during the I got here about, what did I say, quarter after five.

[33:52]

Quarter after four, yeah. And I found the hotel. But when I was in the middle of the night in this stow, I decided to take a nap in the stow. But you can't take a nap and go completely asleep, because then everybody behind you doesn't like it just this long. Okay, and I didn't want to wait until the, just put the, you know, car back in gear and everything, when the car ahead of me started, because that would be too, too, too late. I didn't want to start up when the car ahead of me started up.

[35:01]

I wanted to be ready before he started up. Maybe you all do things like this, but maybe I'm crazy. I don't know. So instead, I focused on the triangular red light that was in the car ahead, which I could see through the rainy windshield, rear window of the car. So I focused one eye on that. I thought, this is crazy. Everything disappeared. The world disappeared in this one little red triangle I could see through the wet drops. I focused one eye on that and I let myself go to sleep. I took all thinking away and I went to sleep. And I had a quite nice nap.

[36:12]

But as soon as that red triangle moved, I would continue and then hit stop again. Okay. So what's, if I'm doing that, what do I learn? Or what's an example of? If we call the mind that was watching the red triangle, if we call the mind If we first of all call it non-consciousness, because I can't sleep if I'm conscious, to go to sleep you have to let consciousness slip away.

[37:20]

Okay. So let's call it non-consciousness. And maybe we could call it awareness. Because I'm, again, with you trying to experiment with what do we call these things. And I don't think it's necessarily exactly the same as Buddhism. For example, if you take any term in Buddhism, or something, different schools say it's different, and different historical periods say it's different. They've got different ideas about what these words are. You don't have to go quite that fast. Decelerate. Now, the Mahayana, greater vehicle.

[38:37]

Much better. Looks down on the... Hinayana, the lower vehicle. Well, it is true that the Mahayana is a wider way of looking at the world, I think, it seems to be, than the Hinayana. And that's generally looked at as there was an advance in the teaching. Yeah, and a development in the teaching. Well, that's also true. But probably it's mostly rooted in the early Buddhists were structurally a different kind of person than the later Buddhists. And they needed a different kind of Buddhism.

[39:44]

And I would say they were probably temporally structured, time-structured in their identity. And the later Buddhists discovered the advantage of spatially structuring their identity. Now, what are we? We may not be either exactly early Buddhist type person, or later Buddhist type persons. And we can use the wisdom and tools and practices and craft of Buddhism not to become a Buddhist but to

[40:46]

discover our own experience. Anyway, that's how I see it. So that's why I'm going into this. What exactly is going on here? So if I look at my experience at this point, looking at the red triangle through the wet windshield of the car, meanwhile, I could say that it's definitely non-conscious. I can generate a non-conscious state of mind. Whether we call it awareness or not, let's wait and see. But even though I'm not conscious discursively, I can tie this non-conscious mind to an intention.

[42:13]

And my intention is to wake up if there's any change in that red triangle. So if that's the case, then it tells us that non-consciousness in a way is conscious but it's conscious through intention and not thinking. And that tells us that intention is a different kind of mental activity that occurs in a different layer of the mind than thinking.

[43:14]

And then we can see how so many of the teachings are rooted in an intentional mind and not a discursive mind. And we can see then why taking the precepts or vowing and so forth is so important in Buddhism. Okay, was that clear enough? Self-explanatory. Oh, good. Are you being ironic or serious? Yeah. Oh, it's okay. I hope it was your self-explanatory. Yes. Is that the same kind of mind? When I was in India, for example, I had to get to the airport and I had to wake up at a certain time and I didn't have an alarm clock and I woke up exactly at the time necessary.

[44:37]

Yeah, that's exactly the same. And the mother is in deep sleep, and the child has something, and she awakes. Is that the same? Exactly the same. And learning not to wet your bed is exactly the same. But I don't understand why... I tell myself I want to get up at that time, but I don't know how this happens, how this works. It's the example I use all the time. You set your mind to get up at 6.02. And you wake up at 6.02. And, you know... Well, I am embarrassed sometimes to confess how much I experiment with these things.

[45:52]

So I have to travel quite a bit. So sometimes I have a watch set on the time where I left. And sometimes I have a clock already set for the Japan time or Europe time. And sometimes neither is set right because the time has changed overnight. It's been daylight saving time. So I will set my mind out of sight before I'm going to set it according to this clock or this clock. or both, and it works. And sometimes when I'm sleeping, I see the clock in my mind, I see it in front of me, And then I will turn on the clock and it'll be the same time which I can see the clock in front of me.

[46:58]

But I'm not looking at the clock. And I'm asleep. I'm still trying to understand these things. Or at least I certainly accept them. Okay. But it's interesting, one sec, it's interesting how we, when I said wet your bed, I was serious. We teach our children making use of awareness to not wet their bed. So in our culture we know you can learn things in awareness, not in consciousness. Or you can learn it in consciousness and transfer it to awareness. But a yoga culture teaches their children all kinds of things like that.

[48:11]

We teach our children not to wet the bed, and then we say, forget about that. Although I think in sports and in arts and in music, you want... In effect, learns about functioning and awareness and not just consciousness. But I think that in sports, in music and in art, we actually learn... But it's usually related to the art or sport itself and not to the whole of the life. And I also don't know traditionally how consciously it's taught. Or just taught because that's the way it works. From what I know about the Middle Ages in Europe, these things were much more conscious than they'd been in recent centuries in the West.

[49:21]

And often they were... Guild secrets. Certain states of mind that you were able to do certain things in that you couldn't do, and they were secrets within the guild. Roland? If I understood what you were saying, Ray, about this example looking for the windshield, focusing on the red point, you had an intention. The intent was, once that red light starts moving again, please, dear non-consciousness, make me awake, bring it to my consciousness and do all the… You know, do the driving states. My question is, when you brought up the example with the car, your intention was to look at the red thing and say, don't be conscious of love.

[50:29]

If this red thing moves, wake me up so that I can work again. I'm wondering, and using the example that Andreas brought forward, where the sentence was meant to be bad, what you call the world, if the other way around works as well. That means taking senses from the consciousness, which is addressing like, you know, the koans are addressing the non-consciousness, leading us to a certain intent. If it would be possible using conscious sentences to find out a certain intent within a person, so that works the other way around. It got beyond his intention. I was wondering if this way of thinking, if it works in the other direction, that I take a sentence like Andreas said, something man to the world, where you first say, how is that?

[51:31]

And then you know it's a Quran, and you start processing it differently, and in your head it leads to the unconscious world, and through the unconscious world also a certain intention. Okay. Do I understand you to mean, very simply, that you could make a conscious sentence like, what do I really want to do? And by injecting that sentence into your conscious mind, into your consciousness, It might fish out what you really want to do. What your deep intention is. I have a non-conscious... I'm using the vehicle for sentence in my conscious mind. To fish... to go into what is the real interior.

[52:45]

You know what that's called in Buddhism? Fishing with a straight hook. I knew it. No, but it's good what you said. And this comes from your experience. Okay. But isn't it interesting that Buddhism has a parallel experience with this, your way of working? Yeah. I would like to ask you, what do you think is the difference between psychic skills and... Yogic skills? No, and awareness. Because what you said sounds to me like psychic skills. Well, what do you mean by the word psychic? A psychic ability, really? Yes. What is the difference between that and being true? Exactly. What you said came to me as a psychic ability or skill, yes? What do you mean by psychic?

[53:51]

Like ESP or something like that? Yes, for example. Extra-sensory perception is ESP. Extra-sensory perception. What do you call ESP in German? Außer-sinnliche Einnehmern. Extra-sensory perception. What letters do you use? ESP. The same letters? ESP, yeah, because it's... The words are similar. Anglo-English into the German language. Oh, okay. Anglo-English into the German language. Oh, okay. Yes. I think you can understand what is being said here. My experience was, when I did Ohatsu Sesshin, I didn't sleep, I sat through one night, and I felt, the thinking stops, something rests in me now, something says to me, I'm going to sleep, but still my eyes were open and I was present.

[55:07]

my experience during a rohatsu session was when one night I didn't sleep but then I experienced thinking stopped something in me went to sleep but I was eyes were open and I was awake somewhat that was a new experience for me And I couldn't explain that to me and the Master didn't give me an answer for that. And later I read Dropping Body and Mind, Dogen. And I was feeling deeply touched. And so this question of mine was answered. And now it's an ability I have, I can use it like a dimmer.

[56:22]

I can turn down to half-wake. The thinking is down to half-wake. But here I'm present. You can call that from conscious to half-conscious? Or is this something different? I would call it awareness with a surface of consciousness. I would say you're located in awareness. But consciousness can be partly present. So, yeah, one thing... A couple of things I will say before we end. One is, anybody who's practiced meditation has the experience of

[57:47]

trying to count your breaths. And it's one of the more effective ways to begin a period of meditation. Yeah, in which you do this to weave body and mind together. It's like the cartoons of counting sheep together. Counting sheep stops discursive thinking. Do you count sheep in Germany? Oh, yeah. You count goats or cows with big bells? Boing! Boing! I was just in Switzerland the other day, and it was the day they brought the cows down from the mountain. Flowers! Bells! It was fantastic.

[58:57]

I wanted a bell like that. Okay, you get me one in case. You can tell if I'm rhyming or not. Okay. but it's difficult often. I often call counting to ten counting to one. You only get One. Sometimes you get to two and then, you know. Now, one conclusion you can draw from this is that, yeah, you're so distracted and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

[60:08]

And you're so involved with your thinking that And that's partly true. But there's another conclusion you can draw. Awareness doesn't know how to count. Consciousness knows how to count. When we teach a child A, B, C, D, you know, et cetera, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, [...] 1 Some things in succession. It's a structural process. So what you're doing is you're teaching awareness to count. They're teaching awareness to structure itself in a way that's somewhat similar to consciousness.

[61:29]

So you really are, in a sense, stitching or weaving, stitching, mind, awareness and consciousness together. And much of practice is developed to embody it in awareness. And not embody it in consciousness. And then have it through awareness enter consciousness. Now, Societies do this with a lot of mythology and a lot of stuff goes on in the group mind through awareness.

[62:46]

But not so much through our educational system. And yoga... or Buddhist awareness intelligence would say Buddhist wisdom would say don't let Take responsibility for your awareness, your own awareness, our awareness. It's how we actually overlap with others. Don't let the mythology of a culture take control of your awareness. That's exactly what cultural myths do, and that's exactly what contemporary advertisers do.

[63:53]

By emphasizing consciousness, you allow yourself to be manipulated through awareness. And once your awareness is awakened, and it particularly depends dramatically happened in Sashin, as Wolf pointed out. And I think people at Johanneshof had the experience sometimes. You're completely asleep. Your body's asleep. Your consciousness is asleep. All night long, you know everything that's occurred in the room.

[64:56]

And if someone comes in and speaks to you, you can talk to them and talk to them. And not wake up. You have to be a little careful. If you get into speculation, it'll wake you up. But if you just answer questions like, yes, I'll do this or that, or thank you for telling me this, you can stay asleep. Now, there's something called blindsight. Oh. There's a word for that. Is there a German word for it? Yeah, we have that. You all know about blind sight? No? You're blind, but you can see. You're blind, but you can see. Yeah. Visual cortex blindness.

[66:01]

Maybe so, okay. That sounds good, yeah. That's how I heard it. Oh, I didn't know that. Well, it's discovered by a number of people. I met a physicist who claims he discovered it, and also a man named Nicholas Humphreys, who I know, who was a British scientist. He first discovered it because his professor had removed the visual cortex or, you know... much of it from either a monkey or a cat, I don't remember which. The serious professor was off giving lectures about what he'd done to this cat or monkey named Helen.

[67:02]

Nicholas is a young graduate student. He's now my age. He had nothing to do because his professor was off lecturing him. So he started playing with the cat. And the cat, which was blind, would go and chase the ball. So he took it into... Hyde Park, and the cat did all kinds of things, went up and down stairs and things, but it was blind. So there's a rather tragic story, I believe they, I don't know how they made contact, but an Iranian woman, I think she's Iranian, was blind.

[68:08]

But they were quite sure she was actually could see. But she didn't have conscious experience of seeing. So they brought her to London. She was a well-educated and already a lawyer, I believe. And she had whatever it was. She could actually be taught to see. She could walk around and go up and down stairs and so forth. But she had no conscious experience of doing it. So first she had the psychological problem of Everything she'd read in Braille about the wonders of seeing, she had none of the experience of the wonders of seeing.

[69:19]

And with no conscious experience of being able to see, she couldn't integrate it into her identity. And she got very depressed and suicidal. And at some point she just decided she's blind. She went back to her dark glasses and cane and had a successful professional career in London, but as a blind person. So now this is, we don't have time. We must have a few more prologue days. What is the difference between seeing and having a conscious experience of seeing?

[70:32]

Now, if someone throws me a ball, I will probably put up my hand and catch it. That ball, the arc of that ball, and where to put my hand, is a rather complex mathematical calculation. I didn't do that consciously. My opinion would be probably blindsided. My opinion is probably we could say blind sight made the calculation. Last night while I was driving, it was pouring rain and it was foggy and there was I was at an intersection where all kinds of trucks were coming in from the right side.

[71:49]

At the same time the lanes were changing. You know how you go along in this dirt and then suddenly they say all the lanes are going to go this way and turn into yellow lines instead of white lines? So I'm actually thinking about the... And I hadn't noticed that the lanes were shifting into other lanes, you know, they shift out of the usual lanes into other lanes. But I... then consciously noticed that awareness already knew the lanes were shifting, and I was already moving the car, and I only consciously noticed it after I'd turned the car.

[72:57]

Okay, so, in other words, I think much of our activity could be called a seamless working together of non-conscious seeing and conscious seeing. I would say that meditation and mindfulness practice changes that relationship. And then you have to learn to negotiate, develop this new relationship. And you see it in lots of koans like, not knowing is nearest. Und du siehst das auch in vielen Korans, wie zum Beispiel diesem Nichtwissen kommt am nächsten.

[74:09]

This is to try to change the relationship between knowing and not knowing. Und ihr seht, dass es also anfängt, die Beziehung zwischen Wissen und Nichtwissen zu verändern. But it doesn't mean you eliminate knowing altogether. You simply change the relationship. Das heißt nicht, dass du das Wissen insgesamt sozusagen verschwinden lässt. Du veränderst einfach die Beziehung von Wissen und Nichtwissen. Now, I about psychic this and that powers, etc. Yeah. It's hard to translate. I mean, the word psychic, it's a problem with that. Yeah. Well, it's a word which doesn't mean anything, I think. It doesn't mean psychological, it doesn't mean... Yeah, that's what I was asking. It's not psychological at all. It means magical or something like that. Yeah, it's a question of the psychological awareness, a psychological phenomenon.

[75:12]

Well, let's not talk in English, okay? May I say something? Yes, of course. The word psychic is not the same, it's not a translation of psychisch in German. Psychisch is not the same. When we say in German, psychic, it's just related to the psyche. Nothing more, nothing special. It's just the territory of the psyche. But then you have to say there's such a thing as psyche. Yes, it's automatically implied. But for Buddhism, there's no psyche. No, I know, but when we use the term, it's not the same when we say psychic. We say psychic in German. Really? Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just relating to the psyche, that's all. It's not psychic. Well, that's why it's difficult to translate. So ESP just relates to the psyche and not to... I don't know. This is parapsychological. Parapsychological.

[76:14]

Parapsychic. Yeah, that's what we said. Parapsychological. That was an early term in Germany. Parapsychology? Yeah. That was acknowledged as more than psychological. Oh, okay. Yeah. I watched a Russian guy once move a pack of cigarettes with his mind. At least in a film. But I met the guy when I was in Russia. And I've been involved in such experiments sometimes. I don't know, let's just say that in Buddhism we stick to our experience. And things that are anomalies that are unusual that you can't explain, we don't deny. We put them in an intermediate world where you don't have to have theories about them.

[77:18]

You don't have to be serious. You don't have to have theories. Theories, yeah. But it's certainly the case that whatever we could, the general territory of psychic powers and so forth overlaps with The territory one develops through meditation and mindfulness practice. But we traditionally warn against making that a goal. So why don't we sit for a couple of minutes?

[78:24]

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