Dorothea said the sweetest thing to me when she came upstairs. She said, even if we're not good enough, you still have to teach us. And then she added, even if you're not a good enough teacher, you still have to teach us. Oh dear. How can I win against that? So, what are some takeaways? I would like to say something. I would like to start by saying that I would like to thank you for letting us participate in your inner events.

[01:08]

I want to begin by saying thank you for letting us participate in your inner movements, in your inner... Oh, my thinking, yeah, my feeling, okay. Yes. I don't want to put it into emotional categories. I understand. It certainly... hit us all in a way. It touched us all deeply, I think. We may be on very different levels. And for myself, I can say I probably belong to those who do the well-being Zen.

[02:09]

and at the same time I can say that this kind of Zen that I try to practice that caused a great change within my life and a different world view And I can understand how great the disappointment must be. Now I'm trying to use an emotional word. That the potential that is there could not be actualized.

[03:25]

in that way. Very, very grateful for what I could take and still am taking with me that you gave to me. And in my own way I try to continue to give that, weiterzugeben, so wie es mir möglich ist, as good as I can. Thank you. Und als takeaway möchte ich heute, möchte ich einfach nur etwas, ein Beispiel geben, dass ich seit geraumer Zeit etwas beobachte, was du diesmal angesprochen hast, das sind die Metaphern. I've been observing something for a while and you talked about it this time, the metaphors. Ich erfahre die Begegnung mit der Sprache, mit den Metaphern, mit den Bildern, körperlich, wie es mir früher nicht möglich war.

[04:45]

And I experience the encounter with the metaphors, with words, with images, on a bodily level that has not been possible for me before. I experience that while reading a text. how a metaphor touches me physically in my body. And I came with that experience and it was very surprising that you this time talked about that. And it's a confirmation and I thank you very much. Yeah, I mean, the problem is a structural problem, partly, or maybe essentially, which is that we in the West have not developed a way to really develop the craft of teaching with others, the craft of practice with others.

[05:55]

And it takes some centuries to do it, usually. Yes, I think the problem in the West is that we... I think it's a structural problem, or in essence... even structurally, that we in the West have not yet learned the craft of teaching, the craft of practice in teaching each other. I mean, we just had a successor's meeting, seven or eight people, so six, seven people. And we just established some kind of shared guidance on when Jukai can be given and what it means. And is there a Jukai, Tokudo, Ango, Shuso transmission track?

[07:00]

When can Jukudai be given? We have tried to find an agreement. When will Jukudai be given? Is there a track of Jukudai? Jukai, Tokudo, Ango, and really a Sodo Ango, which means not just a 90-day practice period, but a 90-day practice period in an established Sodo where training has been developed. And then shuso. And then... and then transmission, shiho.

[08:03]

Now, so in other words, when we give chukai to somebody, Are we expecting them to be on this track, or is it a way to enter the Sangha? So we're, on the one hand, horizontally, we're a family. Vertically, or from past to future, we're a succession. Because the main obligation of practice for the kind of practice we do is that it continues into the future. So we just a few weeks ago discussed and came to some mutual agreement on what should be considered expected of Chukai and Tokudo and so forth, but this is real basic beginnings.

[09:24]

How do we take, then formulate, so I asked, what 10 basic teachings would you suggest everyone should know thoroughly? What 30 koans should everyone know thoroughly? This is a primitive level, but we're trying to work it. This is Jukai. Okay, that's what I thought. And we talked about it, which 30 koans should people know, and what else, 30 koans? Yeah, what 10 teachings. And what the 10 teachings and so on. We are very much on the fundamental dream. Now the tradition is called kirigami, which means cut paper.

[10:32]

And kirigami means it's an oral tradition that is also written down, but not passed through writing, but only orally. So the tradition is at some point you expect the disciple to be able to express a certain number of teachings. Right now, to keep it simple, say 10. And you can write it down, and the teacher looks at it and says, well, you didn't understand this part, or you didn't understand that part. You give it back to the person. Then they write it again, and they give it back. And then they write it again. At some point, you seal it and say, passed.

[11:34]

Also in dieser Tradition ist es so, dass erwartet wird vom Schüler, dass er die zehn Belehrungen aufschreibt, sein Verständnis davon, es dann dem Lehrer übergibt. Der schaut sich das an und sagt, das hast du verstanden, das hast du nicht so richtig verstanden, gib das zurück. Der Schüler schreibt erneut, bis es hin und her gegangen ist und er dann einen Stempel bekommt. Yeah, the idea is that... The idea is that you should be able to completely understand a certain number of teachings exactly as your teacher understands it before you can teach on your own and develop the teachings on your own. But even this takes a lot of time.

[12:37]

You almost have to live together and meet two or three times a week. But it is called kirigami because I can take... my notes from Suzuki Roshi, with Suzuki Roshi, and I can the person I'm talking to can take their notes, but I don't pass my notes on to the person. So it's called kirigami. And that means kirigami, this paper, because I can look at my notes from Suzuki Roshi and the other person has their notes, but I don't pass my notes on, but that means kirigami. I've studied Sotoshu transmission and Rinzai transmission, and there's a certain way both are done, which much of it is kind... You all know what a placebo is.

[13:56]

Okay. Prior, really what placebos are, are diluted shamanic rituals. Placebos work because it's a ritual treatment, not because it's a sugar pill. So you can understand some of the parts of transmission are rituals you go through which give you permission, and permit or permission means to pass through. You have permission, a deep permission from another person, okay, do it, you're okay. Now, if we develop this, there has to be a certain And it's a touchy subject because one of the things that happened at Zen Center, Suzuki Roshi used to talk about mercy Buddhism and transmission Buddhism.

[15:26]

But after he died, But the tradition of just giving transmission to your son, because somebody has to run the temple.

[17:56]

And one of the reasons why Suzuki-Washi left Japan was not only the over-institutionalization of Sōtoshū, but also because the transmission was simply passed on to the next son and so on. Someone had to take over the temple. So Suzuki Roshi said to me, your job is to have at least one disciple, not too many. But nobody wants to be in a secondary position. But you only have so much time in this life and opportunity to spend time. So there's no easy solution, particularly in the West where it's hard to accept hierarchy. Yes, and nobody wants to be in such a secondary position, and that's difficult.

[18:56]

Yes, that's difficult, and especially in the West, where people have trouble accepting hierarchies. Yes, anyway. So, one of the things we ought to do and if I can help before I perish, is establish a clear way to continue our teaching. And one thing is to establish the a study program back in the 70s I established the Shunryu Suzuki Study Center which I think is called something else now but we emphasized a real thorough study the Abhidharma

[20:05]

But we don't have that kind of center where we can be here, where a lot of people can be together for classes and things like that, so... Yeah. Okay, someone else. What I'm taking away from here? I had the feeling that I realized something or we realized something that we haven't been able to do in this way before.

[21:17]

I'm still so impressed from the round. I think it was two days ago. where we went through the whole round with a break in the middle, and everyone told us about their practice. For me it felt as if we had a rope made of different threads. And to me it felt like we wove a rope from different threads. And I would like to name five threads. We have a small number of members in this Sangha who have a very deep insight or practical experience.

[22:27]

We have a small number of people within the Sangha who have deep insight and experience in practice and wisdom. We have the residents, the people who live here together, who continuously practice together. And we do have something like a mercy sangha. I use this word now. And we have more than in winter branches or Sangha wheel or Dharma wheel. We have people here in the group that for me embody the future Sangha. And we have a teacher.

[23:48]

And we have had all this in a proportion that I found wonderful. And I hope that we as Sangha can continue this. I should say that we can make a distinction between Dharma heirs and successors. Dharma heirs are disciples or fellow practitioners who you realized the teaching mutually together. And Dharma-erben sind Praktizierende, die die Lehren miteinander verwirklicht haben.

[24:58]

And successors are Dharma-erbs who are able to continue the teaching institutionally and you test them not just by kirigami, but you test them by having them give lectures while you're present and then you study their lectures and give them feedback. And successors are dharma heirs who are able to continue the teaching and who, for example, hold lectures while you are present, so that it is possible to give feedback and which are also tested in this kiragami way. Ideally, there's a period of time when that can happen because you're practicing together like I do with Christian and attend his lectures and with Nicole or I attend her lectures. but because of my own obfuscated language and ability, it's hard for me to attend Atmar's lectures and Kural's lectures, because I don't understand a word you're saying.

[26:18]

You did during practice period. Yeah, I did during practice period. Even if I don't know German, though, I actually feel quite a bit. I have to confess. Okay. Thank you, Ulrich. Danke. Danke. I think one of the problems is that maybe you and maybe me, I or us have a certain feeling of failure. And like you say, it's difficult with lay life and practice.

[27:21]

As you said, it needs 10 years in the monastery. And that gives us the feeling to fail. At least I had this feeling over and over again. But I think it needs a bigger effort, a greater effort on both sides. And we have to start now. I don't know how exactly, but we have to find ways together. Well, let's try to find ways together.

[28:24]

But what you say is right. And one of the rules of Zen Buddhism, which is... wonderful but also one of its weaknesses, the general feeling is you don't ever teach something the person in front of you can't understand. So that's a form of mercy Buddhism. So you always present the teachings at the level which isn't too much more demanding than... So the job of the teacher is to teach within the realm of the potentialities of the practitioners. Now in Tibetan Buddhism it's more clear when you're getting things and when you're not getting things.

[29:41]

And whether you're able to do the visualizations or not and how often you do them and so forth, visualization is a big part of Zen practice, but it's kind of a secret part which you have to find out for yourself. And for example, when you get which visualizations, Because if you're in science, say, studying math or physics, It's very clear some people can do it and some people can't. And you wouldn't have a cell phone unless there were physicists and mathematicians who were good at it. Now, there's some similarity. Our practice demands a certain kind of intelligence and commitment.

[30:54]

One way is not a religion. It's not one belief for all. It's much more like a science. However, it's not based just on intelligence. It's the real alchemy is commitment. It's the commitment and the time to act on that commitment which really makes a difference and what a teacher is really looking for. Is this person capable of commitment? And do they have the time to exercise the commitment? Yes, and it's really about this commitment, about really letting yourself in there.

[31:58]

And the teacher judges whether the person has the time and also the ability to let themselves in there so fully and completely. And the possibilities. Thank you. Parallel, something else comes up for me. I don't have any feeling of failure or non-failure or too little or too much. When I look at this long time span, we almost know each other for 30 years that we practiced together. I had the feeling that we get and take what at the time being is possible. possible that we can take and get.

[33:09]

And I'm deeply, in the deepest sense, grateful because it turned my life completely upside down. even though I may be miles away from, far away from some understanding. Don't think that way. That's not useful. And what came to my mind is that the great way is not difficult, don't choose it. The second point, that has always been a riddle for me, I start to guess one. Roger, in his second lecture that we had, that I had in 1991 or 1992, said, the realization of sense does not exist in reality. And in 91 or 92 you said realization in Zen doesn't take place in normal society.

[34:15]

And that's a big challenge, has been a big challenge and is a big challenge. to find out what do I want to take, what can I take, do I want to have it all, and everybody has to find out for him or herself. What I take with me here in concrete terms, what has moved me a lot in such a nebulous field, is this giving and taking of Manjushri and Avalokiteshvara. Yeah, it's still a kind of hazy and foggy field for me, but what I took with me is this giving and taking from Manjushri and Avalokitevara, or the granting and the grasping.

[35:26]

Especially this metaphor, what does it mean, Manjushri? And Manju, she really tries to stay in a somatic field of experience. That's how I understood Roshid. An interesting, you know, one of the things I am surprised by, it was one of the challenges I faced, but one of the things I'm surprised by is how close Zen practice is actually, especially metaphorically, experientially metaphorically to contemporary physics.

[36:31]

Okay, so let's just take this as an example that I gave, the koan of each hermit raises his fist. And Zhao Zhou says, oh, the water's too shallow here to anchor. And to the other one, he says, yes, you can offer life. You can give and take life. give and take life or death. Okay. This is completely like indeterminacy. Or uncertainty.

[37:37]

Or even complementarity. And the sense that the truth is not in the situation, the truth extends beyond the situation. So Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, well, change means not just change, it means you're in the midst of change where you can't know the answer, but you can function differently. knowing the truth is extended in time and space. If there is a truth, the truth's home is not in the sphere of mind. So the koan says, I'm just astonished by how smart these koans are.

[38:56]

And it says, if you think there's no difference between the two hermits, that's wrong. There is a difference. And you're in the midst of this where you can't determine what's true. But you act in the midst of that which you can't know with the sense that If there is a truth here between Zhao Zhou and the two hermits among them, it will appear. Yeah, it will appear. So how are you in situations which are not resolvable and yet you act so that they become potentially resolvable sometime?

[40:14]

This is common sense. So how do you feel the situation so it ripens? So, again, this is the practice of actuality, not Buddhism. I would like... During these days, what really touched me was... Our ghosts are leaving. Thank you for making us lunch.

[41:20]

And Jonas, I hear you have to leave soon. Okay. And thank you for coming all the way from Budapest. I mean, Bukarest. And thank you, Jonas. You have to leave soon. Thank you for coming all the way from Budapest, Bukarest. to help us develop our center. Which is your center, too. I hope Dieter arranged something. Okay. Sorry to interrupt. Okay. Well, I haven't found words yet. Anyhow. Well, I'm The first day it was metaphor to hold a metaphor without the necessity to understand it.

[42:28]

That was an enormous relief and shift. What I take with me is the metaphor on the first day and that it is enough to hold a metaphor and not to understand it. Because I used to try to find a sense or understand and I didn't. But I always liked the koans. I always liked the koans. The few that I know. And in these days, I have tasted something on this physical level of resonance. von dem, worum es gehen könnte.

[43:33]

And on the bodily level, and being in resonance to a metaphor or something you said, that has been activated and I got a taste of what it's about. Und was interessant ist, wenn ich zurückgehe, gibt es viele solche Momente, When I look back, there have been many of these moments when Roshi had a lecture in Sashin or something and something happened within me and the fact is I can't hold it. um um um and realizing how important the context is of us here, the oriyuki meals, the service, zazen, all that Roshi

[44:42]

us together talks, that these experiences, this experiential space can open and to accept that it closes again. Wenn ich mal dann nach Hause fahre oder so. Und ja, und konkret, was ich mitnehme, es ist wie so, eigentlich wie so ein Schatz, den ich gar nicht verraten will, aber das ist... what I take with me it's like a treasure that I want to hide and now I can't even think of the words so it's hiding the ten thousand things and I share the same body and I I took it in, what happened, and that's an example of it.

[46:00]

That's like... Okay. I understood that last phrase extremely well. Yeah, that's all I can say. And besides that, I just want to thank you and I don't know. Yeah, I need you. I need you. We need each other. And I'm curious how it's going to develop. Thank you. Vielen, vielen Dank. Well, I think you can maybe... What happened today partly was you have more feeling for or insight into my own dilemma, positive dilemma. I've spent the last two or three decades teaching in Europe. And it's changed my life, too.

[47:14]

I'm completely grateful for and impressed with our shared and individual practice. But now I'm in my Soon mid-80s. And you can see, in retirement, I have a responsibility of how will this continue. How should we practice together and how should I teach? So there's a... some likelihood this will continue. And the institution, the Soto angle, the institution which helps the practice continue, when I left the Zen center if I hadn't left a lot of buildings it wouldn't have lasted if the buildings helped continue it so when we just had Johannes off

[48:39]

I thought, it can't continue with just Johanneshof. And we had this kind of magical, miracle gift from across the street. I can hardly believe that this was waiting for us to I was ready to start living in Freiburg, primarily, and Johannes and Creston. And... Now I think we have a chance to continue. Now, how are we who inhabit these this center going to continue? How we inhabit it as residents and how we inhabit it as our other home.

[49:58]

And I can do some of it, but mostly. you'll do it, and I need your help to the extent that I can help. Thank you for translating. And we're supposed to go have lunch in five minutes, so why don't we have a little bell sound?

[50:28]

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