One thing I haven't commented on... You don't have a rock star. But there's no crumbs on our... That's right. That's a set priority. It's okay. One of the things I haven't commented on... is that we're doing this, we've been doing this all these years, sitting on the floor. . Which, you know, we could all be sitting on chairs. And I don't mind meeting with people in chairs.

[01:02]

But how to create a sight of knowing is different when one is situated on a chair or situated on the floor. And we also practice this little ritual of bowing to each other. And I think for me it's a very nice way to physically recognize another person. But as we've spoken, the elephant underneath Samantabhadra, which is under this room, represents that there's a field of knowing that goes on outside of consciousness that we also have at least some access to.

[02:22]

And the some access is often ceremonial-like gestures. Okay, okay. So if I bow to somebody, this is an expression of the teaching of the four Brahma Biharas. It's also an expression of the column of the chakras being carried into the heels and palms of the hand.

[03:41]

Okay. So in the four Brahma-Viharas, I like the term Brahma-Vihara, but it means divine abodings. divine abodes. Is divine, is there anything, divine in German would be translated as godly. Does divine have a personalized God feeling or is there? No, I mean divine is a Well, sacred. Heilige. Heilige ist doch besser. Heilige Orte des Verweinens. Something like that. Okay. But they're also translated as the four Unlimiteds.

[04:42]

Aber es wird auch übersetzt als die vier Unbegrenztheiten, Grenzenlosen. So the four Unlimiteds are Unlimited Friendliness, Empathetic joy. And empathetic joy means that you are able to take joy in your enemy's success. Or the success of someone you don't like or who's betrayed you or something.

[05:46]

So one of these, first you practice unlimited friendliness and then you begin to see if you can actually explore that as empathetic joy. And then those two are the doors to equanimity. And then the fourth is compassion. So it's a kind of development of compassion, recognizing each step has to be experienced as unlimited. So for the mature practitioner, when they bow to someone, these four unlimiteds are appearing in the bow. All right.

[06:56]

Now the reverse, the new practitioner. Who, living at Yonassaf or Crestone or coming to a Sashin or something like that, develops the practice or gets somewhat into the habituation of bowing when you see somebody, that's just bowing equally to anyone you meet. then becomes an opening to realize the four Brahma Viharas, even though you don't even know what they are.

[08:03]

Okay. So again, and these can be practiced by a lay person or anyone. I mean, I've talked with Brother David about it quite a bit because I was even going to give a lecture on them once in his gratefulness conference because I thought unlimited gratefulness. Die können in einem Laienkontext praktiziert werden und von jedem und jeder überall. Und ich habe darüber sogar mit Brother David gesprochen. Stein der Rast. Weil ich mal einen Vortrag darüber in seiner Dankbarkeitskonferenz halten sollte. And the reason I'm speaking about this also is that one of the ways you reach into this field of knowing that's not available to consciousness, which we could call non-conscious, but we can't really call unconscious, is called reached by ceremonial gestures.

[09:13]

They seem only ceremonial, but they're intrinsic to fundamental views. Okay, so again, my point, in our context, our constellative process... is that a constellation seems to me to often be a ceremony on the surface which calls forth patterns which are there underneath, but you don't have conscious access to them. And you did a constellation last evening, which I started out coming up the hill. I just couldn't come up the hill again. I'm so sorry. But from what you recounted to me, it sounds like, briefly recounted, is that there was an underlying pattern that was able to be brought to the surface through the constellation.

[10:56]

So Buddhism assumes that there's this sometimes characterized as an animal or animalus or something like that. The Bodhisattva wisdom sits on a line. So the bodhisattva wisdom, sitting on a lion, means that the modality of wisdom is much enhanced if you feel there's a field of energy on you. There's a relationship between wisdom and energy.

[12:15]

And for Samantabhadra, who is the Bodhisattva of undisturbable realization and patience. You feel the presence of the elephant who does things carefully and with some depth and seriousness. spürst du die Präsenz des Elefanten, der die Dinge mit einer gewissen Tiefe und Sorgfalt macht.

[13:21]

Und wie ich gesagt habe, der Ochse repräsentiert das alltägliche Leben. Okay. So I mean, one brought this up because I think we can explore the relationship of ceremony in a positive sense and ceremonial gesture in a positive sense to the practice of constellations. Now, yoga culture assumes something like monastic life is a constellation which calls for realization. In the yogic practice, there is an assumption that

[14:25]

is a constellation. But the vision of that as a therapeutic process in lay life or in ordinary circumstances is something we can add from Western therapeutic practices to the yogic worldview. Now, the view here is that there's a vast field, infinitely detailed field of knowing that's not conscious. that we can access or heal.

[15:49]

Okay. Non-conscious field. Okay. Which constellation practice has kind of hit upon a way to access it? Und die Aufstellungspraxis hat einen Weg entwickelt, oder zufällig einen Weg gefunden, dieses Feld, Zugang zu diesem Feld zu bekommen. So the underlying concept is the same, but as Westerners, we can practice it in our new ways, and we can develop new ways in our culture that aren't known in Asia. So it's a concept and an imaginal metaphor which you can make use of. And I feel that's exhibited in that we're sitting on the floor or bowing to each other, things like that.

[17:05]

Yes. No more? By the way, Esalen for years, everyone sat on the floor. At some point, it became an institution more defined through the culture. The culture began wagging the dog. The tail began wagging the dog. And without anyone really noticing, everyone started sitting on chairs while sitting on the floor. It doesn't mean you shouldn't sit on a chair.

[18:14]

Okay. It was nice how you spoke about these virtues. In order to develop compassion. And what do you do with all the side effects? But since I come from a Christian context, but in general that's something that I'm wondering about, is what do we do about all the shadow sides from this?

[19:24]

I don't know. [...] I do know that practice helps me to dissolve all kinds of emotions or feelings, anger, hatred, all kinds, yeah. But I also know that even in a culture or in a context of co-practitioners, this is a painful process. So what do you do so that you don't betray yourself? So again, that you don't fall into the trap of wanting to be good again, maybe not exactly in the Christian sense, but in a yogic sense, right?

[20:44]

Well, the first step is noticing, understanding that there's a problem. And what to do about it is evolving the craft. But we also, we practitioners, have to deal with the shadow side of Buddhism, which is karma and reincarnation. Reincarnation in India is one way, reincarnation in China, which has ancestor worship, is different. That all has to be kind of put aside too. But we practitioners also have to deal with the shadow sides of Buddhism, for example, karma and the idea of reincarnation. And then reincarnation in India is understood differently than, for example, in China, where there is also the honor of the ancestors and so on. Okay, someone else? Let's sit down.

[21:47]

You said that Zen is about the means of silence and balance that enable me to observe myself. You said that Zen is about using equanimity and stillness as tools that make it possible to study oneself. And then I added the quantum theory that observation itself creates reality. Yeah. Observation interferes with observation.

[22:51]

Dogen says arrival hinders arrival. And then I thought, well, we observe ourselves, and by doing this, we continuously recreate ourselves. Yes. And not just, this doesn't just refer, relate to oneself or the psyche, but also the body. And that again reminded me of what Ulrike said about body work. And then I thought we should avoid to speak of the body, but rather embodying.

[24:01]

Yeah, okay. Incarnation. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I haven't quite figured out what language exactly to do that through in English, but I completely agree with you. But that's revolutionary if we consider that even bodily we recreate ourselves continuously at each moment. Yes, we certainly do. I mean, again, this classical undivided activity assumes that, again, there's no starting point of a creator.

[25:09]

But since undivided activity is a gloss for? No. A simple way of saying something. Okay. Gloss. Gloss. That... interdependence is a highly valenced, multivalence process. which means that everything is a starting point. It's a birth point. Then once you realize that conceptually, the craft is, you start feeling like a starting point. And you begin to feel you're in a field of starting points.

[26:34]

But it takes conceptual skills to keep reminding yourself of that until you embody it. And if you have understood that conceptually, then the next step is that you start to translate that from your understanding into the actual feeling, that you always feel, I am a starting point, I am a starting point, you are a starting point, this is a starting point. Yes? I mean, you made a song about shifts last night. It's a starting point. It's a starting point. I didn't understand the Deutsch, but I understood what was going on. Uri? What I am wondering about, have been wondering recently, is what ethic behavior, ethic compartment, could look like in the 21st century.

[28:01]

Yeah. Because the political, financial, economic, and so forth, all the systems have become so volatile. And I feel like we are at a threshold or at a turning point. Yeah. And as a Buddhist practitioner, I've always felt that with the four Brahmaviharas, I'm on a pretty good path to hold against it somehow. Yes. Yes. Okay.

[29:15]

Okay. But then I just heard there was a study at the Harvard University which is now discussed and so forth which has shown that the very practice of the virtuous compassion and so forth and also things like holding a field of attention through Can it lean more toward what? Unethical people. Yeah. Wait, I'm not sure that now we didn't really convey the whole concept of what she said.

[30:37]

All right, go ahead. So the point of the study really was that when people practice compassion and... holding a field of attention and so forth, that in small ways it seems to open the back door for actually unethical behavior. It led to an increase of unethical behavior. And this study is currently being discussed and so forth, and she said, I just wanted to ask, I don't know if you've heard about it, and just the study makes me... No, I'd be interested in seeing it. Yeah. If you can give me a link or something. What is... Yeah, this is... That's the old form. He asked, what specifically does the unethical behavior consist of?

[32:03]

And basically things like you don't take a position against when boundaries are transgressed or when unethical behavior is taking place, people who have these values of compassion and non-judgmentally and so forth, they tend to not really take a position against it. Because they're open and liberal. Maybe, I mean, but as Siegfried is pointing out, really basically that's the old accusation against practices of stillness and equanimity and so forth. The misunderstanding of stillness. Yeah, well, I... My own general feeling is that we are very close to the collapse of democracy through the corrosive effect of capitalism.

[33:07]

When companies measure themselves by how much they grow every year, it's all over. Companies could measure themselves by how much they improve or how they do things, but if they always need more growth, every other value is corroded. And everything can't always grow. Where's it going to grow to? That's bad cancer. when growth is the only dimension of scale. The companies could also measure how much they improve or emphasize all kinds of other values. But if the only value that is emphasized is growth, economic growth, and everyone always wants to grow, then all other values are neglected.

[34:18]

And not everyone can always grow. Where should they all grow to? That's called cancer. And if I just look at the details, I don't have any hope. It's all over. And I know it's a funny way I don't mind having no hope. What the hell? But on the other hand, my practice of undevaluated activity, the vastness which is beyond us, I somehow trust and have faith in. in diese Weite, die weit über uns hinausgeht. Nico, you were going to say something?

[35:25]

Yes. So... Yes. I was still with the topic of ethical behavior, and I feel that every psychotherapy needs to contain an aspect, part of the work has to be dealing with one's shadow sides. If the idea is you want to improve and being good, just being good, it feels good to be good, it's way more challenging to look at your own shadow sides, way more uncomfortable, but that has to be part of any psychotherapeutic effort.

[36:34]

Okay. You wanted to say something you said earlier. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm not quite sure. That's a whole new topic. You want to open that? I know. Get started before lunch. I mean, it's up to you. I don't know. Okay. Are you ready for this? We don't know yet. I'm sort of asking for permission. He's on the mountain. Okay. So I just in the break discussed a topic with you which is on my mind and I think is from having spoken is on a few people's mind which is the topic of your relationship to and my relationship to emotions.

[37:55]

Oh. How to deal with emotions. I'm in trouble. Sorry. And there are just a few statements, there is one in particular, where I say, I just don't do that. So just to create the larger context here, I have learned tons from you about this topic. But there is one instruction or statement in what you're saying. Really specifically, it comes out sometimes in a variety of images or sentences. But it's basically one thing where I'm saying, I just don't do that. Und jetzt möchte ich dann wissen, also jetzt, bitte?

[38:57]

I just don't do that. Yes, I'll say that right away. I can only change one thing. And that is that he, we just did it again, and he now uses this picture. But I expect from a practitioner that this person simply puts aside emotions, annoyance and so on. I say, I don't do that. So the image that you just used in our conversation is that you said, well, really, a practitioner ought to take an emotion and just put it on a shelf. If necessary to do so. Oh, okay. Well, that's a qualification. That's interesting. You don't put all emotions on the shell. Okay. So let's see where in that. For now, maybe we can create a contrast here.

[40:04]

I think it's always important in these things to exaggerate. You exaggerate the thing, and then you can see the aspects of it. Yeah. Okay. He says, yes, that's true, we're going to create a contrast first. And in these stories, it's always important to create an exaggeration first, so that we can see the contrast or the differences. Okay. I found the point yesterday very important and interesting. Angela made it very clear to me. We talked a little about it. And in these four points that I said yesterday, it was also for me, without articulating it, but a very important point.

[41:12]

So this point that Angela brought in yesterday, and right now I'm just describing how I'm doing things and so we'll see where the dialogue goes. You know, I think in metaphors, right? Yes. And now I can feel like I'm in a large birdcage that ends up here and it's all like this, and I'm a minor bird maybe or something like that, so I'm sitting there listening to what's going on. But everyone, you know, you're all speaking a language I don't understand. And sometimes I... Okay, go ahead.

[42:13]

You know how birds can turn their head without getting spotted? But just for the completion of the metaphor, you're safe. That's why I'm in a cage, I know. You're telling me I'm safe, but I'm in a cage. But the door is open. You can fly. OK. Okay, so just again to translate, the point that I thought was, I think, an important aspect in our conversation yesterday, which Angela brought in, is that at the moment when we shift from locating attention in the body and then feeling the aliveness in the body and then just, first of all, just feeling what's actually there, what is.

[43:16]

And that at this point we do this in a basic, in a space of unconditional acceptance. It's just whatever appears, appears and is. And if we need to, that differs from situation and from person to person. If we need to, we may say, you know, like you talk, welcome, or it is and it may be. Sometimes certain feelings need some permission even. They need a little extra acceptance. Okay. Okay. And now I think it's a very important point for me. What is in a moment when I notice that a feeling arises in me that my understanding of it, I say now, I also speak in a metaphor, how the Buddha would feel.

[44:20]

That my feeling of how my deepest inner desire would now express itself. Let's do it like this. What is it, when I now feel a feeling that is not in harmony with my deepest inner desire? Now the crucial point here is, what do I do at a moment when I feel that a feeling arises or is present that is not in accord with my own deepest request, with my innermost request? Or with, you know, imaginatively, with a feeling of how would a realized person feel. You know, so what do I do? Okay. And that's where I sometimes, and sometimes I really don't, but that's the point where I have questions about the Roshi. And sometimes where I have the feeling that something comes from him like a gesture, like he told you, I do that on a shelf. And what I notice for myself, I don't do it on the shelf, but I look at what is in this feeling.

[45:31]

I take silence and time for that. And I look at what is in this feeling of suffering that I create myself and what is in this feeling of information that has to do with the current situation. That's sometimes there, too. It's not all baggage from the past. It's not all just burden from the past. I look at the trigger and so on. But my important thing is that it's definitely not that the feeling stays exactly where it is. So now just from the spatial gesture, it stays exactly where it is. And for me, transformation takes place where it is and not on a shelf. So now I'm translating. Excuse me, I really need to do this step by step. So now the translation. So in such a moment, the question then becomes, if there is a dissonance between a felt reality and the inmost request feeling, how do I practice transformation at that moment?

[46:46]

yeah and for me and I said you know in my listening to you and being your disciple I sometimes at this point I have questions to the positions you're taking and sometimes not at all but sometimes I do and when you it is the specific gesture when you're saying well at this point a practitioner takes the feeling and puts it on a shelf or anything along these lines My sense is that, for me, what I do is I take the feeling ideally, and you know I don't always do this, but ideally, I take the feeling into a still space and I look at the various aspects. What is the trigger? What within that feeling is suffering that I am creating for myself and others? What in that feeling is an information that's an actual response to the present moment?

[47:51]

Because that can also be there. It's not all baggage from the past. Some of it is actually a current response to, I don't know, let's say, somebody crossing a boundary or something like that, that I actually feel this boundary belongs to sanity and shouldn't be crossed. So that can also be the aspect, that in the actual situation, maybe someone has hurt a limit, and even if I overreact, that still simply the limit was hurt, and that part of the emotional, psychic, spiritual, So what I'm saying here is that for me, if transformation is going to occur, it's going to occur at exactly the point where the feeling is. So I'm going to, for me, what I do is what I'm finding is I'm going to look at it, you know, as sensitively and mindfully, really, with care and basic acceptance as I can.

[49:06]

And I'm going to let, really just let Zazen do the work or the mind of Zazen do the work, but let transformation occur from where the feeling exactly is. And it's very important to me, and that's the last thing then, it's very important to me that, and this is in relationship to what other people have said, that it not be a dynamic of I should already be different. Because then it interferes with a potential transformative process. Now you're assuming I can get out of the cage, is that what you're saying? You're assuming that my way of looking at this is different than yours.

[50:16]

No. That may be true. That may be true, but what is certainly true is you experience it as different. Okay, so now we should have lunch. You think I'm avoiding something? What? I'm still awake to hear something. Oh, well, but after lunch we can continue. But I mean, they've got the food ready, so it's a little bit... I thought we came to a good point where you could put me back in the birdcage after lunch.

[51:26]

You put yourself there in the first place. Oh, and maybe you could bring me some bird feed. Yes, yes. Little seeds I like, you know.

[51:37]

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