very common term. She's both better and worse today. It's the kind of I mean, sort of almost casually thrown around word in Zen texts, non-duality. And I've been trying for years indirectly and directly To find ways to make it clear that this isn't, we're not talking here really about conceptual non-duality, but an experienced non-duality.

[01:23]

And I saw in the recent months I've been approaching, trying to approach how to bring it into our practice. And it may be as simple as creating a redundancy like sensorial phenomenality. And maybe it's quite easy, for example, to introduce such a redundancy as sensory phenomenality. I can't do it better. It may be as easy as creating a word like this which is difficult for the translator.

[02:35]

Okay. Now, why do I call it a redundancy? Because in English, the word phenomena means that which is experienced by the senses. Etymologically, that's what it means. But in fact, it's almost entirely used in English to mean that which is outside the phenomena. So we've lost the experience In the, in the, the word doesn't reference to us anymore. Sensorial phenomenality, it emphasizes what's outside the senses.

[03:44]

Für uns bezieht sich dieses Wort Phänomene also nicht mehr auf, dass das Sinnesphänomene sind, sondern betont eher, dass es das ist, was außerhalb der Sinne liegt. So you can see in what I'm saying here is I have a certain experience arising from my own practice and arising from trying to understand the teachings. And then I look for words to speak about it with you. And then I can't find the words. I find the words that could mean it, but they go in the wrong direction, like phenomena. So maybe I try something out like sensorial phenomenality. Or again, I try out physiological phenomenality.

[04:47]

Yeah, and the word physics and physical and physician all come from the word English, which means natural things. Natural things in a sense means those things which take care of themselves. You're not creating them. But your perception is participating in creating them. And your perception is creating them for yourself. Here I'm speaking about actually two developing aspects of the five skandhas.

[06:26]

Now, so then I think what could I suggest is an entry to this physiological phenomenality. And then I ask myself the question, what could I use as an access to this physiological phenomenality? It doesn't make sense in English either. Oh, that's good to know. Thanks for letting me off the hook. But if you locate yourself in mental comparisons, which we usually do, it's what we're habituated to. But if you located yourself with your sensorial experience, then there's no boundary between inside and outside.

[07:38]

And when you get in the habit of experiencing the world with no inside-outside, separation, then you really begin to function differently in the world. Then you experience the world differently. Okay, so now why am I talking about this? Because it arises in the topic we have of breath-body phenomena. And it arises from what I spoke about yesterday and the day before. But it also arises from my own path. in trying to articulate the Dharma.

[08:57]

But it also arises from my own path with you as a Sangha. But there's no way I can't and somehow participate with you as a Sangha without assuming that you're more or less all at the same place on the path. And so I said also the subtitle or byline for this seminar could be the depth of the basic teachings.

[10:01]

But if we think of the path as a kind of river, Some of us are swimming in the deep parts and some of us are wading in the shallow parts. Waiting? That's paddling. No, no, you wade through the what? Some of you are dog paddling. Some of you are wading. And sometimes you're in deep parts and sometimes you're in shallow parts. But it's not all the same.

[11:02]

And some of you are in the English parts of the stream, and some of you are in the German parts of the stream. And then I say physiological phenomenality. I presume Latinate words, but still not exactly German, not exactly even English. And since I was saying yesterday, I missed that we didn't do so much discussion and we don't do small groups much anymore. And Nicole has been so good at telling me when she knows what I'm talking about. And also good at telling me when she doesn't know what I'm talking about.

[12:29]

And also rather good at telling me when she disagrees. It doesn't make sense to her yet. What do you mean yet? Well, the road. Jack. Yeah. So I thought maybe she could lead a discussion, participate in a discussion in Deutsch with you. Then you don't have to worry about English. And you could just talk about where you're feeling you're at in practice. Yeah. She can do that better than I can in German, for sure. But she can also do it better than I can in many ways in English.

[13:49]

So maybe we could all turn a little bit so that we're not all facing back and front and just more or less able to see some of each other. And I can just be short of it. What? Listen in. Maybe, Katrin, you could sit near me and tell me a little bit about what... Okay? Yeah. All right. I don't know. We're leaving now. Thank you very much. It's lucky we have this machine.

[15:11]

You know, it's lucky we have this machine, because the other machines needed it, correct? That's right. Where did my support come from? Oh, no, no, that's mine. Yours was there? It was there. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah.

[16:28]

Pass. Yes, if we take this as a starting point, where Roshi asks, where do you stand, where do we stand in this field of his teaching, especially from the last two days? There were a few of you who didn't... there, yesterday and the day before yesterday. But at least to name the inscriptions, we have... Andreas, why are you wearing sunglasses? Andreas, it's a special glasses.

[17:31]

Oh, I see. I'm sorry. From our point of view, they're sandals. I can't see nothing. I can feel you. If you want to wear them, we'll forgive you for looking like a movie star. So, to at least name the inscriptions, we have... Yesterday we talked about the process of the five skandhas and about breathing practice. And maybe I would just briefly refer to what I said about Roshi, where I stand. And I remember when a dharma teacher drove me there.

[18:32]

It was always a train, a dharma train. And he drove me through my experiences, through the field of my experiences. And there are points in my experience where I realize, here I should actually stay inside. We had a few word messages yesterday where someone said, yes, when I breathe in, then there comes a feeling of fear, for example. For me, it's sometimes just a vision that appears. I can look very deeply into the opening that I can go into with the inhalation. So really like this, as Roshi says, to receive. To receive. In inhaling I feel, to receive. Then I can remember how somewhere in my body this says, no, I don't receive that now.

[19:39]

So it stays there. And these are the points where I notice that I can spend a very long time with the practice. To give you an example, yesterday I even had a point where I was caught. No, not at all. There was a perspective of, I noticed, as if, I thought such a sentence, I can't do anything in the world anyway. I think you can make an inventory and look in detail, where is it when a Dharma train goes through my experience, such a Bekaroshi Dharma train, where is it in my experience, in your experience, where you realize, okay, it might be worth it to feel it and to look, the train goes on, but that's where I'm actually standing right now, I'd have to stop and look, Yes, for me it is... This shark, this Japanese shark, which expresses a certain uncertainty, and I notice that I like it very much.

[21:01]

I would be happy if I could say that the shark means yes, and then released again for a possible no. You certainly know when I come and so on. But I like it, for example, now I know that I am responsible for what I say, because I am your attention. but actually I don't want to know exactly what comes out of it. I would like to be there when I speak. I don't want to have it all in my head, what I'm presenting. I notice that I get a very precise description from Roshi And I would say that in the sense of the best English empiric philosophy of Hume and Berkeley, to really go down and look at how you can articulate it very finely, that it is very difficult to name.

[22:23]

But unfortunately, for me it is like a springboard where you can glide very precisely, very beautifully. And yes, you may also find the descent, but you don't know where you're going. What I want to say is that we all sit here because we are interested in the truth. And that is also what is actually sought after in literature. But if I now have a poem by Eliot from Fort Cortez in front of me, then I notice I only can say that we were there but not where and not how long. the real basis for me to come to an end.

[23:42]

And in science it is something else, that everything is reproducible, comprehensible, until the end. Yes, and there I see a difference. Mr. Hoshi, about different depths and streams. And... I recently read about a poem by Dave Lynch, that he likes... No, that he... The best fish are found in the depths. And I heard a song, in which someone sang that he prefers to be in the river because it's in the sea, because it's on the way.

[24:44]

And I'm in a situation, I don't know why it's not so clear, it's been a long time ago, and all of a sudden I've noticed that sometimes I confuse the surface and the depth, and that I don't even know exactly where I am. Sometimes I think I'm in the depth, and then all of a sudden I notice, hey, that's too superficial. That's how you notice it. I noticed that the simple things that I pay less attention to, I have to pay more attention to them. I contacted a person who noticed this and apologized to him. And I realized that I wasn't there. And she then wrote back and was very grateful for it, because she thought it was really good that I wrote it like that.

[25:45]

So not just above and below, but that I don't even know where I am in the field. And sometimes I have a suspicion. Where I didn't go. And yes. Insofern, wie es mit dem oberflächlichen und mit der Tiefe, das ist nichts mehr. Maybe there will be questions, if he feels what we talked about yesterday.

[26:45]

We have a lot of material, but maybe it's easiest to stay with what everyone has already applied more or less, namely the breathing practice. It doesn't go without. We all breathe. on the one or the other way we have experience with it. Maybe we can just stay on this topic and look a little deeper, what is it that appears for you and where you see, there I stand in this field of breathing practice. I was standing there because I was asked Uji said not to pay attention to the breathing, but to the heyo, the in-breath and the out-breath. That's something different. away from the generalization to the single, to the singular, to the unique.

[27:50]

But after one or two and a half days, I had the feeling that if I really breathe in the individual and breathe out the individual, then it is like a small tunnel. to a non-duality, so to speak, away from the separation, so to speak. There is actually a difference. At first I didn't understand, but I tried, of course, to say, but I noticed that there is still a distance. But with the hail, so to speak, with the individual inhalation and the individual exhalation, it is really possible to do that, not just to do it, but to feel it. It is actually like that creates a connection. Whatever is there, I can enrich it.

[28:51]

I always play a little bit with the setting out. and also to sort of, on the one hand, expose oneself to the other, to overcome these separations from the inside and the outside, and this through this exhalation, as if to pour into the moment and at the same time to absorb what is outside through the inhalation. And I have noticed that it is much easier for me to roll out this exhalation component into the outside, so to speak, than to be really ready, without ifs and buts, The last moment of holding back does not always solve the problem.

[30:01]

not so easy to fusionate unconditionally, so to speak. If you let it come out from the outside, it is easier to do it by itself. I find it very interesting to observe these aspects. The breathing direction is different for me. I find it interesting that you say the exact opposite to me, that inhaling is a joyful absorption, and I am more economical in giving back. This filler, for me, is the breath between the inside and the outside. I learned this in this practice many years ago, that the breath is the inner liquid between the inside and the outside, My personal path towards a completely integrated personality is the breath.

[31:18]

Every in- and out-breath is actually always exactly a micrometer of dissolving from the inside and outside. because for me the integration, the integrated personality, is actually the highest goal. And every breath you take, this integration through the conscious taking up from the outside and being a little more conscious in what you live in the outside, on the way there, because only the integrated person achieves things without doing anything. That was always my ideal, and I am artificially lazy. I think that's an incredibly beautiful concept to become an integrated personality. We actually have something like a complete, alone, in which, as you both said, in this cycle of inhaling and exhaling, I always feel, there I feel a complete circle of relationships again, between, you can say, take and give, and I can notice, there comes, in this circle of relationships, which is complete, I can notice,

[32:43]

all sorts of biographical conditionings of, but sometimes it's difficult to accept, up to, no, I don't want to give, and then in which contexts does it behave, where does this, where does the relationship cycle run like in a river, that is not fixed once and for all, but can also change situatively, where you hold and where you have the feeling that it is in a river, so I think it's a great instrument to to put your own biographies in contrast. I had a very nice experience with this common breath and this connection to the body, to put it in reverse. I am surrounded by a tree and I know from a biology point of view that his breathing is what I need to breathe in my life and what I breathe out is what he needs for his life. I call it a symbiotic breathing. I open up the breathing rhythm with this tree.

[33:48]

It helped me to reach this limit, to get into this river, from the inside to the outside, so that everything flows together. For me, there were two things that came to my mind. When Orsi told me about the breathing practice, it felt very real to me. When he told me about it, I always had the feeling that I knew it. I also experienced it that way. I know the situation, although I can't always say exactly what it was. And with the breathing practice itself, four or five weeks ago, the moment between the breathing of the child. Because it became very exciting. I don't know how it came to me, but when I was a child, suddenly there was this moment in between, somehow interesting, somehow it feels incredibly long.

[34:49]

Now I want to think about it. It's a bit like Schrödinger's cat. This moment. What? Schrödinger's cat. That's it. You just told me about the clock. I forgot about it yesterday. I don't know. And yes, that's where I'm actually standing right now. That's actually always with me, because at least with the child, I always like to feel the moment between the breaths. And I don't know yet how that will continue. I find it very, very exciting, because it really is like that. In the moment itself, I can't say whether I can breathe in or out. It just comes with it. Yes, that's where I'm standing. For me it was the reference to the detail.

[35:58]

I think she spoke of detail on Friday, in which the word tailing is also included, meaning to wave together or whatever. For me it was a key experience in relation to the breathing, that I have taken out one detail, for example, the transition from inhalation to exhalation or from exhalation to inhalation, only that is one detail. And to observe that more and more closely, that was like an entry into the depths, so to speak, to get into the deeper waters of the river. It is not always the same. Today it's different than yesterday, it's changing. But this insight into the details I found really helpful.

[37:02]

Can you say what it is? Are there details in contrast to what? Yes, it depends on my concentration. Sometimes I can concentrate on the whole breath, the whole time. But these are rather rare moments or times. And... If it's not so that I can always keep the whole thing in concentration, then the detail helps me. What do you mean by entry? It's like a unity and a field. Do you mean something like that? Yes, that's right. There is a connection. The connection between the unity and the focus, to have a certain focus and to let go of the focus and to take the field into the foreground of the attention. Yes, it's connected. I feel that when the field is very strong, then it goes almost by itself.

[38:21]

And if it's not like that, then the detail helps me to cut deeper. For me, one aspect, which I emphasize here, the main theme is, so to speak, mindfulness, quality, duration and breath, without breaking into thinking. For example, if I take a word, a seminal title, Atem, Vagma, Geist, or should I call it a paratactical quality, for example, if I say, Atem, inner light, does it have something where I have the feeling that it helps me?

[39:30]

to be able to instill this kind of mindfulness in me and also to be able to hold it. That's the kind of quality that I think, yes, there is such a power or the mainstay and dominance of thinking that starts to disappear. When I realize that I am thinking all the time, I simply know that I am breathing. It's really, I have to say, like it's hot in here. And then when you breathe, not just inhale or exhale, but the attempt can be to receive every thousandth of a second of the breath. It's the same scale, inhale or exhale. And to be able to stay open, and often it's difficult, I think, helps me to really ask for answers.

[40:37]

And an important word for me is standing still. So I don't get very nervous, I just think, when I sit down, when I say to myself, stand still, is that already somehow loaded with my practice? And it helps me to get closer to the breath of God. From the other point of view, I think what you just said is key. I slept a lot yesterday and now I try to go from the front to the top and to remember every moment of the breath. I would say that this was not possible for me. Above all, I have noticed how often I am out of the feeling again and again. Then I did it quite quietly. I think this is an incredibly wonderful practice for me to always connect to the breath of 18 hours.

[41:42]

That can also be found in everyday life, or I can often do that in everyday life, when I'm standing somewhere or have to wait, or an angel, or When I stand in a swing, I try not to stand up very slowly. If I have to stand up, I have to take medium steps. This helps me to maintain the practice. This has become one of my most important practices at the moment. It's always worth trying. It's not possible without it. It was helpful because it also connected me to the back healing. You have to remember, you have to wait, you have to open your back. It was a very helpful experience. Maybe those who haven't said anything yet. We have so many who haven't spoken yet. Yes, I think it's very important what you said, Andreas.

[43:05]

So how, at what moments in everyday life I can use or apply the breathing practice because most of us who don't live in a monastery don't spend as much time on the pillow proportionally as those who sit in the monastery in the morning and evening anyway and sit longer. And I think my everyday life, also my professional life, has all sorts of different answers and pulls me out a lot, so to speak, that it is very difficult. many hours a day, so I can't even do that. And that's why these little things, for example waiting, somewhere on the red light bulb or anywhere else, I find it very important to use it like that.

[44:16]

And to say, yes, what is actually going on? Or for me, when I notice that the situation starts to be stressful for me, that I try to keep myself in stress and then breathe. I do breathe anyway, but if I take three breaths, it's not as important as just breathing. Yes, that just helps. So in a way, not non-dualism, but dualism is a bit of what the situation was, to not let me into this street through this mini distance and this grounding in my mind.

[45:20]

I think it's nice that you said that again, because it just became clear to me that I don't feel my breath as much in my life span as I don't feel it. That makes me very sad. I don't think it's as difficult to feel as it is to sit down, but in everyday life you have to practice. And I notice that I am looking for him. I know that I would have to go to the bathroom, or I would have to go to the bathroom, or I think that somehow it is also the body that can produce me, and also very quickly that I am distracted. But where I notice him, and that has also become a course for me, is when I talk to other people. And when I see that they don't understand, then I open my eyes, that I should breathe. And then, strangely enough, I take the time to feel the breath and then I come in. Obviously, I need other people to feel my own breath.

[46:39]

It's very difficult for me to do it myself. Yes. I would like to ask you a very interesting question, which I have now spontaneously. Which people are in which situation? So one is enough. I would like to ask that your chest does not move. I know that it does not move. No, I would like to have an everyday situation, now not on me or on the round. It's not about this round for me now, but I would be interested, so I'm doing this on purpose. Where do you notice that? It's not about us at all, but it's about an everyday situation that triggers the reflection with you, wait a minute, where am I right now? That would be of great interest to me. Oh, yes, okay.

[47:40]

It's a completely different level. It's not cognitive, it's more physical. But you don't let go, you don't say, ah, let's do it. Then we also come to the moment, a small moment. That's already a lot. A job situation can also be that you give feedback to someone, that is, to a colleague, and he knows exactly that he is now receiving feedback. This is a special situation that both microscopes, how would he react, what would he tell me now, this is a very dense atmosphere, and there you can feel it very finely, if you then say, let's see, I've heard the following from you, I am incredibly grateful for this information, which started with Andreas' observation. This practical, what I just said, has a definite influence on my observation in the near future. Thank you for the interruption. I find that very interesting, because I started to sit, because I noticed that my breath stopped.

[49:20]

And at some point it was clear, Also in everyday life. When I look at this out-of-body experience, I am always out of breath. When I breathe in, I feel that I enter into the emotionality from feeling to feeling. I feel that more quickly and more often, and then I look at what is going on in my body. then I notice these physical differences very, very strongly.

[50:26]

And for me, the Satsang practice is always to go into this exhalation, to go into this exhalation in my everyday life. And there I notice that I learn a lot, a lot. What would interest me in this room is that I meditate regularly, very regularly, every day for 30 to 40 minutes, sometimes twice a day. And for me it's like this. Usually I have 5-10 minutes where I can concentrate on my breathing. And that my brain is clear. And that's what makes me happy, because actually, when I started doing meditation, I had a completely different expectation, that at some point I would reach a point where I would meditate and there would be peace, and then I wouldn't have to do so much.

[51:40]

But I noticed that it's just a strong fight to concentrate again and again. As I said, I am happy when I can focus on my breathing. Have you ever sat in a session? No. The torturing pain also helps. I heard it, yes. I think one point that also plays a role is, I think, also towards the end, how do you somehow get so clear, could I actually start or something? And that, for me, this point is relevant, what Michael said yesterday, that I don't take an idea or a contract and then try to pull something out of it for later, but also for later.

[52:42]

so that I don't have something that I can use later. In this way you can also find yourself in a meditation. I connect with the breath certain things, so that something happens. At that point, it was not possible to put forward the way it was better and also the topic was movement or the quality of movement of the breath. for now or so, to find this simultaneity. And for me this different layers also plays a role. So I don't have to make sure all the time that I'm completely in the depth of the thing, in the middle of the river or so. But it's always like that, that the whole time different stages of mind are somehow present.

[53:49]

So that's a thing for me that also relates to it. I always try to get the whole thing somewhere, where it's completely real or something, and I think that's also a way of letting it go. I personally think this is a very important point, that in this work, now very consciously, it is not about doing something specific, but that through doing you learn something. So breathing work, according to my experience, always has something to do with opening, no matter whether it is the inhalation or the exhalation or the interplay. What happens is expansion of space. And that can be very little, you don't have to categorize it. In any case, it is a form that you feel and that is also used, for example, for singing, for training, at whatever level.

[55:01]

It can also happen in the Altenheim, that is the essential thing. It helps to let go of this word through the whole introspection, to really lead with the exhalation and also to simply allow with the inhalation. These are words that just lead me deeper into the first, into the breath. Sometimes I also have the feeling that when I say, it breathes me, it does not breathe, then it is also a help for you to let the breath happen.

[56:02]

Or, I remember someone who breathes completely freely. One of my teachers, Pina Kierby, who came, when he was just there, then you could see how it vibrated. Just seeing this brought me into this harmony with my own breath. So the prayer helped me to open my breath through this prayerfulness. And of course it is equally important My inner clock tells me we should take a break. What does the outer clock say? 5 to 11? Yes. Good. You will, after the break, we will be normal again.

[57:24]

What? Normal. I have no thought. What do you want to do? It's nice to be in the circle, really. Should we just continue this way after the break? I don't care. It's up to me. It's up to you. And even if one of you says more, we can still sit. That's true. That's true. This is open. Okay. So that's good. And we have the afternoon, I guess, ready too. We end at noon? No, we end after the lunch. After the lunch? Normally we do. Oh, okay.

[58:16]

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