I'm always amazed that you can take an analysis of behavior or of experience into rather abstract terms. And then constellate them. I mean, I've seen it before, but it still amazes me. You know, I have the experience when I'm speaking that the distinctions between the terms are not always completely understood.

[01:06]

But as soon as when I see them enacted, it's as if the body understands the distinctions between sensation, in this case, perception and conception quite well. To enact them seems to... To enact them, you have to have a precise experience of them or understanding of them. And that seems to be apparent in the constellation. Again, that gives me a confirmation of what happens in monastic practice.

[02:14]

Is the context is, you know, something like a big constellation maybe. And people's body get the teachings ahead of their minds. In fact, it's quite surprising. How long? I mean, I may be practicing with somebody quite a few years, and even quite a few years at a place like Creston or Jansot. And my intelligence can see or feel that they... that an individual understands the practice quite well.

[03:22]

But if something comes up and I ask it to be sorted out intellectually, usually they're not too good at it. So then you have the stage of sorting it out intellectually. in relationship to the physical understanding. I say physical. Yeah. And then when the intellectual understanding is sorted out and clear.

[04:27]

The physical understanding develops another step. But it's all a rather long process. process of mutual embodiment. And just to continue a little bit what I started last evening, or last afternoon, is if constellation practice shows us another kind of a way we're alive, which we haven't noticed, another way of envisioning

[05:35]

being human, then it probably will take, if we recognize that and accept that, it might take several generations to get the terminology, the language clear, which helps develop. And it's already been a several generation process from Esselin to Bert Hellinger to you guys. I'm sorry that Christian's friend Frank isn't here this time. I like his insights.

[06:36]

I told Christian to tell him that I won't stay mad at him. I already told him. You told him already? Oh dear. So I think maybe we should start with a discussion of last night's if you think it's appropriate or you want to. And then at some point I should say something about the role of appearance in developed Buddhist practice. Okay, so anybody who wants to... Yeah?

[07:49]

The one thing that always makes me happy is What amazes me and what I also enjoy is that through personal forms of overlay, when that is pulled out and given its appropriate place, how the possibility of a pure meeting

[08:51]

With, in this case, for example, perception or conception, how this possibility of a pure meeting becomes possible or arises. All the purest of all beings, And when appearance... Appeared. Appeared. And you asked, what's your source? It was interesting to see this... She's shy. She's shy. And she's never [...] shy.

[10:09]

There was a constellation somewhere where? This place. This place. That was a constellation. It was done for me, and I remember you representing the white ox. Oh, that's... Yeah, and oxen don't have to speak German, so that's good. Yeah. Das war gut, weil die Ochsen müssen nicht Deutsch sprechen. And you behaved in a similar way. Oh, as to... Yeah, yeah. Sabine and I were... In a... When the dynamic of meeting became rather focused, then the White House said, I need a curtain here.

[11:45]

It has to stay in the dark. And I was reminded of it yesterday. Okay. Okay. Someone else? Anyone else? Yes. I also have a question. How would you interpret? That goes sensationally and Perception reacted with insecurity when appearance appeared, but they reacted in different ways? And conception was rather flirtatious in comparison, or different than perception and sensation.

[12:52]

How would you interpret that difference? Me, this person? Well, first of all, I prefer, just let me say, not to interpret. Or perhaps it's unavoidable to notice, but to withhold interpretation. Because I feel these things have more power when they're just absorbed. But I will say, I think I should say something about appearance today. So in this particular... I mean, I learned quite a lot last night.

[14:17]

I wish I could teach with a traveling troop of constellation therapists. Some people are volunteering. So I'd teach a little bit and then we'd constellate it and then we'd, I'd teach a little bit and then we'd constellate it. And I would, I know, learn things immediately. Well, just structurally, as Buddhism understands these things, conception is quite close to appearance. And sensation and percept are close to the source of appearance.

[15:27]

But conception itself is primarily formed for most of us in consciousness And consciousness is primarily formed through language and parental and cultural habits. So much of Zen practice is how to separate appearance from its cultural sources and parental sources and return it to its sensorial sources.

[16:30]

So that's enough comment, I think. You were going to say something? What almost disappeared from this constellation, but what I was very touched by in the constellation, was the answer that appearance gave to the question, what is your source? With a sense of confusion jumping around, appearance said,

[17:46]

Peerings pointed at the focus and said, from there and then went into a sort of big space. A big space behind her, she pointed. It feels like something I'm dealing with, which is creating. And this meeting for which you cannot locate a meeting point...

[19:02]

And the other aspect that we talked about afterwards was how can you meet appearance. In the constellation, there was anxiousness. The self or the I was experiencing anxiousness and hesitation and doubt. And probably there was a lot of personal aspects in that, but also the Yeah, I'm wondering about the collective fear of to meet appearance directly.

[20:23]

And then there were some ideas regarding what you need to make that possible. And what arose for me was something like, I have to become similar to appearance in order to meet appearance. Yes. Well, you were there too, weren't you? Regarding the fear to meet appearance, I have the feeling

[21:34]

That it is related to a fear of meeting oneself. Sounds possible. Yes. Yes. Yes. Something I pondered is the meaning of the word appearance. Because I think in German but also in English there are at least three meanings of the word. I think the first one is how we commonly use it. Appearance, something appears, something arises.

[22:44]

And then the second one is it only appears that way. It's actually different, but on the surface it appears this way. And then there's another meaning, for example, in the Catholic context of the appearance of Holy Mary. And I was wondering what you meant when you said appearance also belongs here and how I'm understanding it. And when I was observing appearance, I noticed different aspects of this appearance. And now I'm asking, but maybe I'm also already giving the answer to myself, is maybe all of that is part of it and maybe even more.

[23:57]

Well, I'm... I pretty strictly only use appearance in the first sense you mentioned, something that appears. And in English, to use appear in another word, like it only appears so or appears to be so, you have to qualify the word. Unqualified, it just means appears. But I'm using it as a rather technical term. Yes. Regarding appearance, I'm not sure I quite understand.

[25:10]

Does it also have to do with acting, what appears when you act? During the flux of sensation, perception, conception, then there's also something maybe we could call planning, from which arises the next step, and the next step is acting. Which is also a way of presenting yourself to the world. So that is why kindness is the first thing to do. The shyness is maybe a logical consequence from presenting or showing yourself to the world.

[26:24]

The concepts are invisible, but then you become apparent in the world. Is that a correct understanding of periods? Well, I don't know if there's any correct understanding. It's the way I use it as a technical term. And I use it in some ways quite coincidentally with manifestations. Except that I use appearance more than manifestation because manifestation isn't necessarily linked to a sensory noticing.

[27:30]

Appearance, as I'm using it, is... linked to a sensory noticing. Okay. Yes. Yes. Is there a distinction possible within the concept of appearance? Because I have the experience that the appearance that occurs through the eyes does something differently to me than the appearance that arises through the ears.

[28:50]

When it happens through the ears and I am an ear person, it's easier to dissolve into this appearance. When it happens through the eyes, there's more a sense of this and myself. Yeah, so is there a differentiation in this teaching, in this concept of The way I'm using the word appearance, the sound reaching the ear and the light reaching the eye are equally appearance.

[30:21]

But it's considered that the ear is the sense field which is more likely to lead to realization than the other senses. So a good urinary person There is the perception that the field of hearing promotes the realization more and it is good that you are a human being. Yes. So this constellation yesterday impressed me also through how appearance appeared. Yes. I understood this shine as though it was visible as the evasiveness of appearance.

[31:56]

As soon as I see it, it's gone. It led me to the concept of immediacy that we've discussed here too. Now I'm looking at an axis polarity. On the one hand, there's the differentiation, the analytical, for example, with these three distinctions that we'll consolidate. And how this from this pole or this pole can lead back into immediacy.

[33:01]

how you are bringing something from the abstract back into your experience and on the other hand on the other side for example art music or literature I would like to ask you about your experience in the Iron Curtain, whether it was a good time or a bad time, to ask me or to release me. where you can also lead, that also leads directly into experience, independent from social, cultural conditions and concepts, or you can dissolve them there. Yeah, I felt the same way.

[34:20]

Yeah, I want to... Emphasize what you just said and try to find different terms to express similar things. I spontaneously called appearance the fifth element. It's an indication of what Nagarjuna called the negation of the tetralemma.

[35:32]

I find it interesting, exciting, and also not quite understandable. Why? Say that again. That this fifth element is called appearance or revelation, or that it appears as appearance. Mm-hmm. And another question that maybe you can answer later. I always... The... The word or the concept form from the Heart Sutra appeared for me again and again.

[37:11]

Is there, what's the connection there? Well, you could define form as appearance. And hidden in all appearance is appearance. What I mean by that is if we actually feel that anything exists at all is a miracle, Wenn wir immer wieder erkennen, dass die Tatsache, dass irgendetwas existiert, dass das ein Wunder ist, dann ist was immer der Inhalt der Erscheinung ist, die Erscheinung selbst offenbart ständig dieses Wunder. And you had some strong feelings about this last night. Do you have anything you want to add? Like my neighbor here, I saw the different layers of appearance

[38:16]

And I wondered how would it have looked like If Richard had constellated his version of appearance himself, his understanding of appearance himself. I'm doing that all the time. But not in a constellation. This isn't a constellation. Anyway, we'll see. I have to say something about appearance and maybe it will lay some of your concerns to rest.

[39:40]

I was a little, you know, I found that the first constellation was quite pure. And when I suggested appearance might appear, I expected appearance to gravitate toward sensation and etc. But it ran away. So that was quite educational for me. But I also felt maybe that I interfered with the purity of the

[40:44]

I think by adding this other ingredient that, anyway, it did change everything a lot in Constellation. I think we ought to have a break. Yes, Susan? Oh, okay. I had the luck to be able to watch directly between the appearance and the focus, and I thought for a moment that ... I was pretending to understand. Well, let's continue that. I had the...

[41:59]

I had the luck of being able to see the relationship between, into the relationship between focus and appearance and for a moment my impression was that appearance was love And my experience is that the only appearance that can elicit such reactions like shyness and fear is love. And I thought that this line by Rilke, which means that one of the beautiful things is the terrible beginning, I thought that it is so similar to love, but not only with this very concrete one, but that something arises that suddenly challenges me completely.

[43:13]

So it doesn't just have to be a human being, because the moment of love is, for me, very well expressed. I can translate the first part, and then the second part you have to help me with. I was reminded of Rico's line that beauty is ... The beginning of terror. Yeah, beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror. See, I'm not entirely uneducated. Go ahead. And then tell me again. I can't let go of this connection of appearance and love and what they demand of me. And then continuing to think about it, looking for the question.

[44:27]

To ask, is that so, is kind of stupid. Silly? Well, I have to get this very specifically down to exactly what you're asking, which I haven't understood. Appearance and love, what do we have to do with that? whether appearance and love have something to do with each other. Of course. But not all appearance is love. He said the most charming thing to me yesterday. Which I also don't understand.

[45:35]

Because his daughter is about nine or ten. And he asked her about meeting my daughter, Sophia, who's ten. And he says, his daughter, well, he said, Sophia speaks in miracles. So I'm sort of wondering what that all means, right? Maybe I just heard you speaking in miracles. Anyway, we should end soon, but Susan, please.

[46:36]

I feel like continuing where you start. The feeling is not so terrible in the beginning, and we admire it so because it is allowed to taste and to destroy. So the feeling is not so terrible in the beginning, and we admire it so because it is allowed to taste and to destroy. And this is the part of this energy piece in the first, is that we admire beauty for the fact that it, was asking this in very nonchalantly, avoids to destroy us. So in duty there's always a potential of the destructive. And this makes it sway in a sort of tension.

[47:45]

Well, I would say... In all things there's the potential of love. And perhaps our life work is to realize that. Christine? Do you want to tell us about this situation, this strained situation, where a person and a... I want to say something about this situation where the person and the parents were unable to come together. My sense is that the person has to transform in order to allow appearance.

[48:52]

And the question for me is how that can actually happen in a constellation. Maybe something would have to come onto the scene that helps the person. That would have allowed the person to feel differently. What this addition could be, that's something we could think about. So maybe after the break, if anyone has some response to Christina's query, we could discuss that. Okay.

[50:03]

Thank you for translating.

[50:05]

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