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Zen Beyond Knowing
AI Suggested Keywords:
Seminar_Zen_and_Psychotherapy
The seminar discusses the intersection of Zen practice with psychotherapy, focusing on the concept of enlightenment through consciousness versus beyond it. It evaluates the role of consciousness in achieving a state of enlightened awareness and examines the idea of "not knowing" as a transformative process leading to wisdom. There's a particular emphasis on how concentration shapes consciousness and its implications for self-awareness and therapeutic practices. The talk also touches on relational connectedness, its impact on psychotherapy, and the dynamics of separation and connection within Zen practice.
- Referenced Concept: "Not Knowing"
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This idea is central to the transmission of Zen wisdom, suggesting that enlightenment can be approached through an acceptance of uncertainty, facilitating introspection and revelation.
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Referenced Practice: Concentration in Zen
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The process of refining concentration serves as a method for engaging with one's own consciousness, shifting focus from singularity to the expansive field of the mind, crucial for both meditation and therapeutic applications.
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Referenced Text: Buddhist Concepts of Enlightenment
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Referenced repeatedly through the discussion, these concepts frame the analysis on whether enlightenment exists within the bounds of consciousness or surpasses it, influencing both Zen practitioners and psychotherapists in understanding mental transformation.
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Referenced Analogy: Water as Symbol of Conscious State
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The analogy of water (clear vs. muddy) illustrates the shifting states of mind and its influence on perception, useful for practitioners examining states of happiness or suffering.
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Referenced Story: Buddha and the Arrow
- This parable underscores engaging directly with one's present experience and challenges, rather than seeking their origins, which is pertinent to therapeutic practices focused on symptoms rather than root causes.
AI Suggested Title: Zen Beyond Knowing
What I spoke about one month ago. I speak about with certainty, confidence, sureness, certainty. Yeah, certainty in the sense that it's very clear to me that this is, yeah, it leads to the center of how practice works. You know, maybe it crashed in the sense of how he or she wised their craft.
[01:03]
From the bigger sense, you know, I wonder, what am I doing? I mean, sometimes I think I'm messing around and how do I do that? And I say, well, I need some help. She makes sense of this with more people than just self-practice. So I come to you as sages of Austria. We can include a few people from Kassel. Anybody want to say something?
[02:26]
There must be some disagreement or agreement or something, yes. By the way, what kind of great display we had at Munster? Since I was a kid in the Midwest. Yes, go ahead. So I'm coming back to what was the morning session. So something came to my mind at that point, which I cannot really take hold of. But it moves me quite quickly. There were a lot of terms in different
[03:58]
different ways of relating things. That I was dealing with a dynamic which distinguishes itself for . No matter what terms we use, there is always dealing with something which improves everything. And then I would come to see this other boy who is an auspicious person. And then there is the other, which is in which there is a being excluded and saturated .
[05:19]
For example, maybe . There are two questions. You said, is enlightenment a possibility within consciousness? Or is enlightenment something happening outside of consciousness? And for me, this is what I want to do. And for me, this feels like in that way, it really cannot be answered. Oh, it's hard. And from my it's more like
[06:26]
It can't be by an excuse. It's too deep. I think it's done by explaining something that no matter what you do, you're not better at it. Excuse me. [...] And then concentration was also presented. And immediately, we think there was this other form, maybe, of space. So this is, I don't know what I'm paying for, but somehow it can't be .
[07:46]
For some time now, I have been trying to find out what I'm doing. This is officially called psychotherapy. And increasingly, I don't know what it is. And if I look for a way to express it, it's something like space. Well, it sounds like, as you say, how to sort through your experience as a practitioner and as a psychopath.
[09:34]
And, of course, like all of us, just living your life. You kind of find what words, terms, concepts, express what you're doing. It's like what you did. Yeah, that's, of course, what I'm going to take. It's... I think it's an essential process. If you're going to bring what you do to a next step, an active conscious level. But whether terms you're sorting out of your experience fit these or not, what I'm bringing up is not, we don't know that. What kind of fruitful energy can there be?
[10:51]
And the first part of what you said seemed to me that there's a value behind it, that whatever is good or right, something like that, has to be inclusive. is good, but the biggest goodie of all, enlightenment. Yeah. But let's hope that's the case. But birds still fly in the air, and fish swim in water.
[11:54]
And not too many creatures do both. So the turning around in oneself that we call enlightenment, that turning around is difficult in the medium, liquid, medium of consciousness. Enlightenment transforms consciousness. But certainly, if enlightenment means anything, It means some freedom from your views or freedom from your habits of mind. Your habits of mind are mostly scars embedded in consciousness.
[12:57]
So it doesn't make less inclusive, that you're not going to find the freedom if you're just identifying with consciousness. But consciousness itself is used as a counterweight to it, or could be. For example, one of the, this term, word, phrase, gate phrase, is not knowing his nearest. Is not knowing his nearest. Well, not knowing doesn't sound like consciousness.
[14:07]
But as I said the other day, a phrase like not knowing uses consciousness to bring you to the gate of knowing. And then you stand in front of the gate that knows you what not all you need. Bless your heart and say, the flower is not red, nor is the willow green. The phrase brings you to stand in front of a red flower. You might say the flower is not red. So these phrases use consciousness. Yeah. Yeah, the second part is I said that concentration is
[15:48]
Joining the gathering of knowing through what point? Intentionality. Intentionality. But this concentration that I'm speaking about, again, sorry, the same thing I mentioned. But if I pull this stick up, you get a stick-avowing mind. As I say, it takes some time for your mind to just grow up. First he goes off, away.
[17:05]
Then you bring him back. And after a while, it comes back easily. And after a while, it comes back by itself. And after a while, it's a state. Those are the traditional stages. Buddhism for early Buddhism thought, realizing one point of this. That's not a theory. But once I have one point of this, my mind can rest where it is. So I can take this away. And you have to guess which hand. Okay. Now your mind remains concentrated. So what is mind concentrated on now? the field of mind itself.
[18:22]
So now you've shifted from one pointingness to the field of mind as constituted. Now you can bring this back in. And now you can observe this from the field or space of concentration. So one-orientedness is the other side of being able to have the samadhi of mind concentrated on itself. Yeah, so it's almost like you bring Magen to a point and it spreads out into itself. So what you're saying about feeling a space or working and making space or being in a space, I hope your psychotherapy can help me. Okay. Maybe this has nothing to do with it, but... I hope that we can figure out some connection.
[19:49]
But what has to stay could be your happiness, typically, is the only thing. Because sometimes it seems to me it's... And for me it's like a light I like to throw up. What's that language? But they're saying that the I would say it does seem to turn out, but it is the case, let me put it more definitely.
[21:07]
That the nature of mind, the experience of mind itself without content, It's the experience of bliss or joy. And we can say it's non-referential joy. Joy that rises for no reason. Now, I often say, in trying to explain these things, conception. That a good practice to develop is what I call a pause for the particular. Okay. A better way to say it is a pause within the particular. There's a word, ,, which means, usually translated as just this.
[22:31]
If you look at the characters, kanji actually means inside this. This is not much different conceptually, but experientially. So I see pause within the particular, not for. Now that sounds rather McCann. And you'd have to have some kind of metal machinery which kept reminding you to pause for particular moments. And you perhaps need a mental machine that reminds you, that constantly reminds you to pause in the present.
[23:44]
PFP is our key. PFP is a pause for . The document is now going to open in PFP, not on my computer. When you, how you find yourself within this pause for particular, is, for example, you begin to have an experience of joy or gratitude for no reason. Some of the past is the same. Well, the inner technical term is one when you first had the experience.
[24:45]
The term for it becomes your memory when you first have the experience. And for me, it's when the water comes down from the faucet. And for me, it's like when the water comes out of the water tank. I noticed in the early years of my practice that I felt so grateful when the water came out of the water tank. But I kept having this deeper and deeper feeling of, whoa, whoa. And then it spread further until it was almost like everything. And then the pause, it wasn't mechanical, it was just just kind of grabbed to it, which the particular feel.
[25:55]
It's kind of wonderful, much years later to find out there's a technical term for this, how perception works. How feeling tone conditions transform the dharmas. Thank you. Yeah, yes. I know this feeling, but I also know the other side. And the same situation, but in a very horrible way. You're sure that the water will be muddy when it comes out?
[26:57]
Yes. Well, I've noticed that in myself. I would try to see what the state of mind was I had, or the triggers for that experience. Yeah, like that. But if I found that alternated, one day I was grateful for the water coming out, and the next day it was octopus ink.
[28:06]
I would just think that... that somehow practice it over in the space where negative karma could condition the situation. Yeah, without, I mean, without knowing your situation more in a better way, more clearly. I can't say much. But certainly in the practice of and trying to analyze dharmas and how they appear, If we have some kind of selfish interest or something else, the darkness appears tainted.
[29:21]
So at the moment of appearance, in what mind do they appear is the study of darkness. Well, then, of course, in general, if Dharams appear, or if you find the world is continuous appearance, That variability is usually one which arises through non-referential joy or gratitude. But that doesn't mean they can't also arise in a conditioned way. Yeah. OK, maybe, yes. I don't feel I responded particularly well to what you said, but maybe I could come back.
[30:31]
Yeah. Yes, I will give you. I want to talk about relational connectedness. I'm going to be involved with the Buddhist train. I do therapy in Boulder with a therapist who is separated from the masculine and is connected to the feminine. So, as a general movement, I like your situation. And when we are not capable of the other, there is a pathology.
[31:42]
And the separation brings death. People who are in the situation of not being able to do abortion. People who are in the situation of not being able to do abortion. So earlier this morning, he said that the teaching of Zen will not be with separation, that you always connected with.
[32:49]
And what will not be personally battery to learn. healthy separation. And the therapist came up and gave me begins to find this learning. So my question here with what you are presenting this morning is, in what ways do I have to observe which is part of self? And my question to what you said today in Horm, one is perhaps the observer who is part of the self.
[33:53]
The other one that I have picked up is perhaps concentration. He said, concentration is a different mind that transforms the dynamic of consciousness. This would be consciousness. So now I have to, you know? I can't follow. Sorry. Okay. So I'm trying to find a way to learn or Ich versuche das Tor zu finden und zu lernen, wo ich mich wohler fühlen kann mit gedreht sein. And this morning, with the concentration, you said, use of the mind, the [...] use of the mind,
[35:08]
So not the use of the mind. So now I have to learn the definition of mind. Let's stop going too far. I didn't... Okay, you're taking these definitions out of me. And extending them into your own experience and so forth. Yeah, and of course the definitions are They have meaning, they relate to our experience. But I think you've got to be careful about how you extend them into your experience because they don't belong in certain parts of the experience. Okay, so first of all, I didn't really mean to say that practice has nothing to do with separation.
[36:44]
Practice has to do with every part of one's life. The need to practice or therapy relates to separation is just the way it is. So practice is not trying to make us less separate. It's trying to make us more connected. But the way it's separated, we are separated. If that's a function itself, practice says, well, function, you need to know that you're separate from each other.
[37:48]
But we could have a better understanding of how to connect. And not connected in consciousness. Of course, that, but connected in consciousness is like politeness. Well, so, and again, generally, Zen doesn't have much to do with Buddhism. Buddhism in general doesn't have much to do with this is male and this is female. Even though Zen technically is a form of tantric Buddhism, it doesn't like Tantric, Sun Tantric Buddhism, and more obviously Tantric, emphasize Neophenia, Moon, Sun, and so forth.
[38:57]
And then Buddhism at the Pole is concerned with your experience, whether you're a male or female. Now, maybe some used to say, men are more like this, women are more like that. But the most feminine women I've known have been men. I mean, there's a number of gay men I know who exhibit more sense of caring and connectedness than any woman I know. This son was one of my disciples. you may know about, the book Streets, for example.
[40:10]
Whenever he was around, everyone felt connected, everyone felt good, everything was clean, everything was taken care of, and there were no complaints. So I don't know where that went. And it would send us, at least when he or she gets older. It's supposed to be grandmotherly. I didn't understand. Sorry. I see the benefits of this understanding is to send it to women and mothers by giving their children the first happy experience of separation.
[41:34]
And so we will be generally more through connection, they are not properly educated. They transmit an unhealthy way of separation. So, I mean, the language of Russian and the language is so wide, We need to look at both. And my personal difficulty is subversion. Now, all of that may be true, but you just said And it might be true for you to think about the roots of your experience, your mother, or whatever you want to call it.
[42:52]
But the territory practice decided to work in is the territory of the symptoms, not the cause. That makes sense. So if you have an experience of separation or being a victim or whatever, that's your experience and you work with that experience, not where it came from or whether it's If you can't be patient, I can't respond. So, I mean, it's in the classic story, Buddha's stuck by an arrow. And you look around for who shot it, and you pull it out. I'm not going to pull it out until I find out who shot this bloody act.
[43:57]
Now, the guy is shooting more arrows, actually. It's nice to know who it is. Okay. But generally, we just say, okay, you have this problem, right? use of separation or victims. How do you deal with that? Not with me, but with someone else. Well, I mean, sometimes, as I've said the other day, practice aggregates, makes more, makes worse. .
[45:12]
Some people who choose to practice or keep open, who have very, they're always being invaded by attitudes, psyche, feelings. Or they just feel responsible for what others are doing. And you need to create some separation. I told you, I think I mentioned how I did it when I was young. I went through about a year or so with anybody, whatever they said to me, I said, don't bug me now. They say it's a nice day, and I say, don't bug me now.
[46:27]
You'd be like, let's go to the movies. Don't fuck me, man. I got to be known as don't fuck me. Well, I need to clear a territory on myself because people would come up and they're full of ex-people. It's a nice day. It's kind of bloated. And all these people in America work together. They say, have a nice day. I'm sorry, I have other plans. Yeah. It took me a year to do it, and then I did. And you want to do it by sealing yourself, as I say, and not arguing.
[47:49]
Yeah, we can speak about more of that. Now, I think it's time to take a break. And now it's almost 4.30 in the hour.
[48:10]
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