So I'd like to hear some discussion about your discussion of Sangha body or practice body or Zazen body, etc. And also the discussion from the day before, if you... if it comes to mind. I attempt in the practice to combine the two. And in using... The two what? Well, the five dharmas, the twelve links, the greatest mind, and Sangha body.

[01:04]

Why not? Shall I just go ahead and spit it all out? Well, I mean, I don't know. Let's try it. I'll start out with the five dharmas. And just to make it shorter, I won't mention all of them, just one that's significant for me there. I move from discrimination. When something arises, I go through naming it and then come to discrimination and get stuck there and move from discrimination. I use the 12 links to index in my mind the process that's going on. And I got to, and club links, I used them as the index, and got to contact between the sense object, the sense organs, and sense consciousness. And moved from that, since I got stuck there, I moved on to using different skandhas in the practice. And had the arising skandha, the awareness skandha, and the consciousness skandha in Zazen, present at the same time.

[02:08]

that moved me into the process of mindfulness and indexing parallel to each other and into awareness mind. And with awareness mind I became aware of that all objects are activity and objects. And also the awareness mind together with the other awareness mind people in the room It moved me to sangha body. I could feel the sangha body, which I experienced as a common awareness mind experience. Okay. Do you want to say that in your not native tongue? Okay. Yes, I once told you that I used the five shamas as an exercise and I have the appearance and so I am through the list with what appears and then to distinguish who I am and I was stuck there and then I used the twelve planes to indicate why I was stuck there

[03:11]

and I went through them in Sazen and came to the contact link between the sense organs, the sense objects and the sense consciousness and I stayed there and then I used it to move in the practice of the five skandhas where I then found the first, the second and the fifth, i.e. the appearance, the consciousness and the perception of the skandhas all at the same time I woke up, and when I got into the acupuncture practice, I was able to initiate it in my mind, as Roshi told us, and then I was in I could develop awareness about what we call Sangha body, what I experience as a common conscious spirit, when we are all in it. I will continue in English. Okay, but maybe that's enough for now.

[04:31]

You've illustrated something that is characteristic of how you can practice with the Abhidharma. In other words, there's two strains within the Abhidharma. One is as a method and the other is as a philosophy. And what the Zen school has done through the Yogacara school is to adopt and especially emphasize the aspects of the Abhidharma, which can be a method. And there's really, from the point of view of Zen, there's only, I don't know, Not very many lists that are really used.

[05:41]

The five skandhas is always at the center of the lists that are used. And you can learn something about Buddhism in general and the world by extending your knowledge about the Abhidhamma. But your practice is usually focused on a few lists, which you learn, again, not intellectually, but through, as I said, introducing them to awareness. And then there are kind of available instructive map. But again, in Zen practice we don't use the map very often. But it's good that it's there because sometimes you use portions of it.

[07:07]

The main emphasis in practice is to embody these things in awareness and then let them fish Again, fishing with a straight hook. If you're really lost in the city of the mind, at some point you might locate yourself with a little bit of Abhidharma. Then you go back to wandering. Because the Abhidharma from the Zen point of view is not to create a map of the mind, but to give you a sense of the scope and potentiality of the mind. And there's some other aspects, but I'll try to come to them before we end tomorrow.

[08:22]

Okay, someone else. Yes. On the one hand, I would like to express my understanding of how I understand the five Dharmas, or rather ask questions. I would like to present and ask at the same time my understanding of the five Dharmas. But mainly in relationship to our practice and how to effect this in practice. On the one hand, I see the five Dharmas as a practice of transformation, where you can transform.

[09:31]

On one side I understood for myself that the Dhamma is a transformational practice, that we can transform things. And then I found out that you can work in a different way with naming, giving it names. Or also in sasen, in which you let it appear in a micromoment. And also in sasen, when you let it appear micromoment-wise, things let them like that appear. And there I have, on the one hand, with the naming, I have now practiced quite a lot. I have practiced a lot now with giving names. And I have also named activities there. And also I named activities, things, doing things. Ununterbrochenes benennen. Successive naming.

[10:38]

Und da habe ich die Erfahrung gemacht, dass mit diesem Tun der Geisteszustand des Gewahrseins sich dadurch sehr stabilisiert. And I noticed that doing this, the state of awareness was largely stabilized by doing this. By naming your state of mind... Yes, also the state of mind during the day. Yeah, okay, I understand. And also Sazen came to a better... The Sazen mind came into a better concentration also? Yes. And once there was a very interesting, very strong moment, namely that in the midst of this naming suddenly the realization was there that I do not know anything, that I actually do not know the things at all, I do not know what they are.

[11:46]

And once during this process of naming, there was a very strong sort of regulation that actually I don't know the things I name. That was incredible. Yeah, great. Okay. And then I wanted to say something about the other thing, what I now call this transformation practice. Starting from everyday mind. Appearing and naming about the same time. And discrimination in that respect would be something like we're putting the fur of something.

[12:51]

Putting the fur off. Removing the hide. Skinning the skin. Trimming the fur. Fur out. And there is a question in there, namely that I have now found out for myself, but I don't know at all whether it is so. And what I found out, and which is the same I'm telling the question, that with the practice of likes and dislikes, the five dharmas are applied, thank you. And I could give you an example for that. I walk on the road and an icy wind comes.

[14:01]

And normally the body pulls itself together immediately and does like this and actually wants to... so it says, shit, what do I do? Yeah. Normally the body just draws together and doesn't want this and says, well, shit, I don't want that. Have you considered the theater for a career? I did it. Oh, okay. Not just theater, yeah. And the shift is then the wind, aha wind or aha cold, and not to change the body, but to let the wind feel completely. The shifter would be to say, ah, as it went, it's cold, and let the body sense this completely, not take it or withdraw.

[15:14]

First, to leave it as it is in its suchness, this is how it feels, And this can be further explored, to ask what is wind, what is coldness, really go into it. How does it, what is it? And in this sense, it occurs to me that these likes and dislikes, actually with the five Dhammas, So in this sense, I think that the five dharmas are or could be or should be applied to the likes and dislikes. Okay, that was great. You know, I prefer just to listen and not comment, but

[16:24]

The five dharmas are, of course, a transformative practice. Or more simply, a practice in which you can transform the habits of the mind. But even more basic than that, it's an education about how perception occurs. And we can go all the way through, not stop at discrimination, but go all the way through and watch it happen. And watch it not turn into suchness.

[17:29]

But also, when you take a practice like simple practice, very basic, To much of Buddhism, but not so much to Zen. It's not emphasized in Zen, like in the faith schools, the pure land schools. It's almost their entire practice. We turn in Zen, we usually turn the dynamic of naming into the use of a wisdom phrase. But when you practice naming, which I've done a lot in my life, you just do it. This is funny, basic practice. And it has fruits you can't imagine. I mean, in one way you know when you're really practicing it because you start finding things out that were never told to you.

[18:55]

Like the way it's affected your general state of mind. And the way it changed your instinctual pace in reaction to things. In other words, it's cold, that's instinct. But no, oh, wind. Yeah, cold. So it alters your pace. It changes you at a metabolic level that you wouldn't think was the case. So someone else, yes. I imagine I go into a kitchen. And there is a chef who tells me what I should do.

[20:12]

He knows where the pots are, he knows where the spices are, he knows where the rice is, and I just follow the instructions. That was always Berger-Roschik for me. And that was Baker Roshi for me. I'm a baker, not a cook. And I don't know how to bake. I imagine Roshi says, I need one of those hats. Now cook yourself. Now I cook myself? No, you say. I say to her. Please cook yourself. You're going to cook your karma. To cause their karma? Yeah. Okay. That's another story. Yeah. Okay, and then I have to know roughly where the pots are, where the spices are, and I'm not going to study all the spices, but roughly know where the individual things are.

[21:24]

For doing that, yeah, I should know where most of the things are, the pots, and I haven't studied everything, but I should know where the basic spices and pots are. That would be bad if I had my food ready and I didn't know where the salt is, for example. It would be bad if I had the meal ready and I wouldn't know what the salt is. That's true. That's adding the knowledge, what you had, with these teaching phrases you gave us. The kitchen has always been there, the teaching has always been there, but now I'm more responsible. And then it comes down to the delicacies.

[22:28]

I still want to taste the food. Sometimes I miss something, then it doesn't taste so good once, and the next day I might have learned something from it and put something else in it. Or maybe I'll take a cookbook by hand, something else. And now the finesse command, the tasting and the spicing, and one day it tastes very good, the next time it doesn't taste so good, and perhaps I even take another day a cooking book and study it again. And perhaps the sentence appears like, just now is enough. And sometimes the feeling appears, oh, it's very tasty. Yes, that's how I understand what we're doing here. And since I've been cooking three meals a day for two months or more, I understand your analogy.

[23:30]

Thanks, it's good. Someone else? Tuesday afternoon we had a longer talk among each other where the five dharmas were a topic. And I left that talk with a feeling that a different understanding but also not being clear was the case. And Krista appeared with a cookbook. And that was the Lankavatara Sutra. The one chapter deals with the five dharmas. We had different talks among each other with Beate and Manuela as well. And he asked if this is the right moment, or should we later come to it?

[24:45]

Right moment to go through it? To go through it and present. I would like to present or explain it. Go ahead. How long will it take? Five minutes. Oh, five. We've got lots of five minutes. Okay. May I ask a question? Is this all what you got from the Lankavatara Sutra? I mean, is this out of the Lankavatara Sutra? How do you understand that? Yes, Chapter 6. But it is not the Lankavatara, it's my understanding. The extract... Out of Chapter 6. Dieter, you completely disappeared behind Manuel. So, yesterday evening, when I went to sleep, the lighting suddenly came on. Was it night? Yes, it was night. That the five Dharmas aren't actually a real list.

[26:21]

Probably less in a way that when you go shopping for making, because you want to make a cake, later on, anyway, they are put together in the pot. And in the sutra? these five dharmas would also be called differently. And then it became clear to me that this list only makes sense And then I found that this list actually is the thing for a teacher to explain something to a student which is much more complex and much larger. And the sutra takes this probably fictitious story like the Buddha teaching Mahamati, a student of his, who asks what is thinking, what is I or myself, what is a self and so on.

[27:48]

And so these five dhammas become an aid to remembering things, to note and memorize things. came in different aspects because it's just not a sequence, as we initially thought. So you start with appearance and arrive at complete knowledge or something like that. It's more a system, so things that interact, so to speak, or that you don't even And during our talks it became clear, different understanding of course, but last is that these things shouldn't or can't probably be put in a succession, but are just different aspects. Different aspects of what?

[29:07]

aspects of how the mind works. For three, above this line, there is a certain succession, of course. In the sutra, what appears is explained as what creates the senses. And the others and I could also do that. We could separate what appears from what comes after. Name, form, and I also have a feeling, even though it's not in the sutra, but added to it, quickly follows the appearance or, regardless of the appearance, appears in the spirit. I didn't quite understand that. That you can see a sequence or a follow-up between appearance, name, form, perception.

[30:18]

There, the first three, I added one sensing. You can see a succession, one after the other. Okay. And this is when discrimination comes in. In the sutra it is defined that things arise through discrimination, and that the basis for this is not knowledge, but that our mind makes the distinction. And the suttas explain that things come into being by discrimination and the reason is the not knowing that the mind creates these things. The ignorance of the mind or the not knowing of the mind?

[31:33]

Also, die Unwissenheit oder das Nichtwissen? Nichtwissen, not knowing. Not knowing as... Well... That the mind... Doesn't know. Differentiation. Because it doesn't know, so it produces... Okay. Because there's a Zen term, not knowing, which is... Okay. Yeah. Big words. Okay. Now, yeah. And both the aspects of complete understanding or knowing and suchness are very extensively presented. Suchness and? What? Complete knowledge, what is it called? Omniscience? Knowledge and suchness are interrelated. I have listed it here. And I listed that and you can read that.

[32:45]

Or how can you go back, so to speak? So there was a lot of discussion and a lot of questions. How you can sort of turn the switch, so to say, between the first three, to the discrimination, to suchness and knowledge, or back? Yeah, okay. Good, maybe you could also add something if you have something in mind. It's very strange, exactly your last question drove me crazy. Did I? I was busy. Exactly the last question was sort of moving me. And my short answer to that is in one sentence, to differentiate, I need that as one word, but has at least two dimensions. My short answer in one sentence is discrimination, which we use in one word, but it has two dimensions.

[34:11]

Yes. Good. As you have drawn it here, discriminating mind, i.e. between Rot, blau, wollen, nicht wollen. Like you drew it there, like the discriminating mind, like wanting and not wanting red and blue. Horizontale Dimension. This is a horizontal dimension. Nicht sehr poetisch. Und die vertikale Dimension heisst unterscheiden. The vertical dimension would be to differentiate between the minds. We use the same word, but sensing suchness and this type of discrimination. It's like a different plane.

[35:29]

Yeah, I just don't understand. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Okay, Lona, you were going to say something? About this right now, right? Yeah. I had something else, but maybe it's... Well, no, we'll come back to you then. I want to finish with this first. Okay, maybe it's linked. Link away. All right. Maybe there is a third dimension. I like this picture, but I want to give it an appendix. If we work with arrows, there's a direct, would be a direct arrow to suchness. To suchness. From the senses, yeah. From the senses, yeah. I write to Thich Nhat Hanh's and my experience also was that in the suchness or non-dualistic mind the world isn't just a pudding or just a mesh, not... It's not a mesh?

[37:01]

No, not a... It's not just meshed together. It's not just... mixed together. Yeah, meshed up together. Oh, okay. Maybe it's one mind... I think it's fine that we come to this distinction. because I think that the misunderstandings are very strong. And I think it's very good that we come to this differentiation of discrimination. I think there is a reason or a ground for misunderstandings. And I have in the Lankavatarasutra, for example, the appearance and the name. These two areas are the areas of false distinction.

[38:02]

In the Lakhavatarasutra it is written that the first two, appearance and naming, are the realms of false discrimination. The two Svabhavas of wrong discrimination. And the distinction, so to speak, in the middle as shift, would then be something like fair distinction. This discrimination in the middle would be a kind of shift to the correct or adequate discrimination. there might be an implicit wrong discrimination between appearance and naming, although it's not written there.

[39:11]

Okay. I mean, Teeter? They all merge together in the offering. That's what she was talking about. Yeah. Living with such a thing. I have a question to Manu. Is the discrimination between appearance and form one that comes out of the sutra, or is it one that you make? Can you translate it? The difference between appearance and form. Do you have that from the sutra or is that according to your understanding? Where is the difference between appearance and form? And if there is, where do you see the difference between appearances? Yes, in the Sutram there is a declination of the five dhammas, so to say. Name, form, distinction, perfect knowledge, and the nature of things.

[40:16]

There's one mentioning of the five dharmas' name, form, discrimination. What was the fifth? Fourth? Complete knowledge. Suchness of things. Yes, yes, but at another point it is, so to speak, appearance, name... As a different place. And I realized that this list is not perfect. It is really just a tool. Otherwise the Buddha wouldn't... I follow that this list is not perfect in itself, but it's a medium, a tool that the Buddha can explain the universality of things to his disciples. Okay. Okay.

[41:43]

Is there more comments on this? Gerhard, did you say anything? I can't see why appearance has directly to do with discriminating. For example, what is hearing-hearing? Example is, what is hearing hearing? There is no discriminating. I didn't mean that, she said. Well, yeah, but if you, when you hear something, you're not hearing what the bird hears. So that's in effect just discrimination. You're cutting, you're shaping what you hear.

[42:49]

And the shift to hearing hearing from just hearing it as an object is a shift to knowing you're discriminating hearing instead of assuming you're actually hearing what you're hearing. In any case, the basic position of Yogacara is that every sense perception, everything you do is acculturated. or shaped, etc. There seem to be some basic things that go beyond acculturation that aren't limited to, for instance, babies will react to the smell, certain smells, for instance. They haven't been taught it's a terrible smell.

[44:00]

They know it's a terrible smell. It would be good if some people who haven't spoken take the opportunity to speak, but... That could come after Dieter, who had his pencil up. Peter, not Dieter. I've got a question sort of backwards. How we deal in a terminological way with these terms? For me, the starting point is contact.

[45:04]

And if I understood it correctly, this means that contact is the connection between an object, And I understood it like that, that contact is the link, so to say, the meeting point between a central perception and consciousness, or sense object and consciousness. I think there I see the connection between the twelve links and the five dharmas and the first of the five skandhas. For me, this is the same. If I name something, this is a kind of discrimination already.

[46:17]

Uh... I think what's meant by discrimination is the establishing of a subject-object relationship. This isn't necessarily the case with naming. I don't think we're wrong on that. Nothing's actually wrong. But let me go back to your point. You said that these several points are the same for you. You said they're the same.

[47:18]

What do you mean they're the same? No, but I'm asking a philosophical question. Are they the same, or are they the same for you? Yeah. As you know, we have a saying in Zen, when you come to a fork in the road, take it. So that was very Zen. For me, this is exactly the threshold where something comes into consciousness.

[48:34]

Yeah, I understand. But philosophically, and you brought up the question of terminology, philosophically, In Buddhism, there's no standard anything. Those terms can only be the same for you at this moment in your experience and not beyond that. So you can't really map these various things on each other and you shouldn't try to map them on each other. And as you know, it's very recent, a few hundred years that we have standardized spelling and dictionary definition. This is all new. So, words in the past had changed

[49:35]

according to context, changed all the time. And Buddhism has retained that. Several people have said, well, I have a problem with manas. Manas is different here. Well, the context is almost stronger than whatever the residue of meaning is in the word. So these may be the same for you. Now, a month or two from now, when you're practicing, you might find them different. And you shouldn't stick to them as if they were the same.

[51:01]

So sometimes you can say appearance, sometimes you can say birth, like in the four marks and the five dharmas, but birth is different than appearance. Okay. How do you orient yourself? Yes, I went for a walk with Peter yesterday and we didn't agree on the terms and neither of us were really clear. I would like to try again to express what I wanted to express yesterday. I went for a walk with Peter yesterday and we weren't clear about the terminology and I wanted to sort of express now what was not clear for me. We were talking about the five dharmas and about discriminating.

[52:04]

For me, the cut is there between a discrimination between consciousness and awareness. When something appears, the appearance and the perception and the feeling of it come into being at the same time. And when I name that, then I can also... And then when I discriminate, then I can move into both directions. For example, I'm conscious of the pains in my knees. And I can sort of reject it or welcome it. And this all takes place in the realm of consciousness.

[53:39]

I'm conscious of that. But when I'm in my zazen mind, I would say this appears out of awareness. And there I got the hint from Roshi the day before yesterday, then I would also perceive the four noble truths as appearing at the same time. That somehow gave me a key to how I perceive from this being. And the day before yesterday I got a help from you to perceive the Four Noble Truths appearing all together simultaneously. That was a help for me. And when I experience this pain in my knees, in the normal consciousness, the Four Noble Truths appear in succession and then there's a wish to get rid of the pain.

[54:51]

Back to the beginning, yeah. It may be a simple truth, but I don't find it so easy to practice. Yeah. Thank you. Manuel, what did you get out of looking at this through the... Lankavatara Sutra. When I answer spontaneously, much from the roundabout. Much from the roundabout. Take the third exit. From the surrounding, you mean, not the roundabout.

[56:20]

Yeah, you're right. Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah. Context. Yeah, I mean, first we had a fork in the road, now we have a roundabout. How this story builds up... And how this Aikish teacher, so to speak, who has something to do with inner knowledge, i.e. with meditative experience, how does she get into a teacher-student relationship? In a teacher-student conversation, or rather a teaching, it's not a dialogue, it's more of a teaching. Is this a teaching, how a, how the teaching is sort of formed or given the form of a, of a... And the approach that you have to sort of push away a lot of things out of the way. And what we have to do, and I assume that we are in that way similar, we have to extract certain senses to give sense to us, sentences out of the whole, which give sense to us.

[57:59]

We have to notice some things and not others. Yes, and we can't notice some of these informations because you must have a background which I do not have. At least one question. When I am in a state of mind where I only perceive and really When I'm a state of mind where I just perceive and I know I'm just perceiving and I have the choice of naming or not naming. Is it suchness? Is it complete knowledge? How does this fit in? Nothing changes by my answering it?

[59:09]

By answering it, yes. I resign. Well, this is, as you have pointed out, it's a teaching system. The device, the tool. So the teaching, as a tool, it gets you to notice your experience. And noticing ways you can relate to your experience. So you can... if you have a choice between naming and not naming, this is already a fairly advanced mindfulness practice.

[60:18]

And if you can refrain from naming And you can deepen that experience, that would be suchness. But even when I can make this choice, this is a kind of discrimination. Isn't it? Well, then everything, you have to, you know, these are, if you're too rigorous, you don't have anything. There's nothing left. And not nothing left in the sense of emptiness. There can be an awareness. I mean, let's just take the simple example of the hearing an airplane in Zazen. And Crestone, it's all we hear.

[61:33]

There aren't any other, anything else except the wind. And birds. So you hear airplane. And you may think for a moment it's an airplane. But you can decide to kind of take the name off it. And so, then you just, as we said, hearing, hearing, as you said. When you take the names off things, labels off things, you tend to move into hearing your own senses, sensing your own senses. We could call that one example of suchness. Now, if you really want to say, is this the suchness that's meant in list 74?

[62:38]

Well, maybe not. Okay. But... even though you no longer are relating to it as an airplane. If the thing got closer and closer and was about to crash into the Zendo, you would remember it was an airplane. Which means that the whole time you've known it was an airplane. So, The fact that you don't know it's an airplane isn't about not naming. It's that you know in one part, but you're not reacting to the knowing. You have to look at this in the context of your actual experience and be realistic about it. Now, did reading the Lankavatara Sutra expand your sense change your sense of the five dharmas as I've been speaking about it over the years, now and then.

[64:02]

You're a cook, and this is a cookbook. Okay. I could also say that that's the cookbook. And I take some essential part of the recipe out of the cookbook. And then I present it to you so you can cook it. And then I see what happens. And... This is fun for me, this discussion.

[65:07]

Um... It makes me think about what's the difference between what we're doing now and the earlier seminars. I would present various things. One of the things I decided to present quite often in addition to the five skandhas were the five dharmas. And there were some things I decided not to present much, like the four ranks. Stages, ranks.

[66:07]

Stages, ranks. So, I mean, when I give a talk, a seminar or whatever, I can feel if The five ranks is a teaching like the five ranks. I'm just making an example. Teaching like the five ranks. Is being absorbed by you, understood or felt? But I don't really know unless I see you fairly often or it comes up in Doksan, how much that part of the lecture actually became a separate practice.

[67:26]

Some people it becomes a it becomes a dormant part of their practice. It's present, but it's kind of stirred into some life next time I mention it in another seminar or lecture. But once you've heard something like this and really I sensed it's probably true. And even if it's just lying at the bottom of the lake there, unless the water is really muddy and stirred up, it begins to affect the water.

[68:42]

But what you don't have in such a situation. Because you may have a feeling for it, and you may, and you may have a different feeling for it, but there's no interaction with other practitioners about it. We haven't had enough definition of the Sangha for that to happen. I mean, we've had definitions, you and I, with each other. We're sort of practicing together, or we're made clear to each other that we're committed to practicing together, etc.

[69:48]

And that, depending on the amount of time you spend together and the degree of commitment, there's interaction about a teaching. There is an interaction about it. But it's still not the same as when the Sangha itself talks with itself. To me, this is a wonderful change. Because, I mean, I just sit here and laugh with excitement to hear you all talking about the five dharmas, really. I mean, it's been years I've been presenting this, and it's been important, I'm sure, in many of your practice, but it's something different when we talk together about it. So maybe the meeting we had the other night about the

[70:56]

next step for the development of Johanneshof and the Sangha will lead to more definition within the Sangha so we can really work together in an even more fruitful way. So, I mean, we should stop. But if anybody, one or two now, or some other point, it would interest me to have some review or comments from you about the winter branches. And how it's working. And how the schedule works. Is there enough interaction time among us? And are we introducing texts and and the tradition in a way that's fruitful, etc.

[72:31]

Yes? Well, for me the texts are sometimes like sitting zazen, especially at the beginning words. It hurts, it's painful sometimes. And the discussions are sometimes Yeah, like pains in my knees, except it's in my head. But I have trouble dealing with my resistance to this approach. But also I can work with naming my resistance and step back from it a little bit and then some things do filter through in that way. Thank you. When you studied musicology, did you have the same problem? Well, there's a certain amount of simple... If it's music history, you have to learn dates and that sort of thing.

[73:48]

And if it's music theory, then you have to apply skills. And I found some things very difficult. And I resisted them, yes, definitely. So you'd rather just play your instrument and not learn much about its... Yeah, there's that. Yeah. So what approach would you prefer? What approach do you like better, the way we used to do it? There's definitely no substitute for playing your instrument. No, but I mean... Yeah, so how... But you said that you had some resistance to this approach, but what approach would you like? Yes, sir. sitting on your cushion and singing? I think that's fine. It's a necessary evil. Well, thanks. Ein notwendiges Übel, ja. Ein notwendiges Übel, diese Widerstände und diese Schmerzen.

[74:51]

I mean, I've gotten this far in, I feel like I'm on a boat, you know, my habitual energy is this boat that's gotten me this far, and now I have to make a new boat, and I'm in the middle of the ocean. Without a boat. But I have this boat, you know. In the process of making it new, it might just fall apart or something. That could be good. Yeah. As long as you know how to swim. Yeah, we'll see, won't we? It's sort of like living in a con or something. Well, I haven't heard a single date mentioned. Date? Yeah, you said, like, learning dates and things like that. I don't think we've mentioned a single date. That's true. Yeah, so we're... When was the Abhidhamma Kosha written? We haven't talked about things like that. Anyway, I appreciate your expressing your experience. Thanks, Alan. Okay. Thanks.

[76:11]

We're going to stop, but do you want to say something? Yes. If it's possible, just… Yeah, go ahead. I'm very grateful because this opportunity is brand new to me to talk about how to practice and to clarify it with the sangha and with you. But there's one problem. It's the pace. So I know different words, how to express myself, and I'm not so used to this code the sangha is using. Code? The words. Yeah. The kind how everybody expresses. There's a special code in the sangha. Yeah, language. I'm used to the language, yeah. And code? Code. Okay. Okay. And the speed and the temper... Is fast or slow? For me, sometimes it's a bit too fast.

[77:15]

But I think it's not a problem. I just want to... Yeah, well, that's good to know. I think we're going seemingly slow. I think we've been talking about the Five Dharma for five years. This is pretty slow. Yes, but I started... I know, it just came in, yeah. But, you know, I worry that here you are, it's taking a week of your life to be here. And this is the third week of your life. And we haven't proceeded very far in the Abhidharma except, you know, We got to the 12-fold links, but that's only seven more than five. But I really, again... The thing to do is to understand some teachings very well.

[78:25]

That's the main point. So I think we could go even slower. I'm very slow myself. But I worry that you guys think you're wasting your time. Okay, so we can discuss this more another time. Thank you very much.

[78:50]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_74.04