told us about, of some freedom from concepts. And perhaps if you want to, you can anticipate our discussion and speak about the way in which you find attention is a magic wand. And how intention has worked in your life. Maybe you'll never stop with all that. Okay, thank you very much. Guten Morgen.

[02:00]

It makes me happy to be here with you again today. And as most of you know, I would like to hear something about your discussion yesterday. Yeah, if possible, not just a report of some of the contents, but a feeling of the discussion, too. Who's going to be the first hero? Or Shiro. No heroes here? Oh, yes. We've talked about intentions. There has to be a different kind of intention than in our everyday life.

[03:30]

It might be helpful for Dean if you spoke. No, she says she understands everything. Go ahead, yeah. Yeah. In our everyday life we have an intention to get something done quickly. So it has to be a different intention to, for example, trying to stay with the breath. Something long-term. Yes, that's correct. Yeah, I'm of course going to try. For us, or at least for me, I've had to establish quite a bit of context Friday and yesterday. So I can feel there's a territory in which I can start speaking about intention.

[04:37]

And again, part of the problem is we're talking about two different kinds of thought, but we use the same word. And we're talking about two different kinds of intentions. And we use the same word, but we need something, we have to distinguish them. You're completely right. And then there's New Year's intentions, which are famous for never being kept. I always think they were meant for the previous year. Now it's a new year. They can start with the same problems we had last year. Okay. Someone else? Yeah. We discussed the host and the guest mine for a long time.

[06:01]

And it was sticking out. Many people couldn't really make use of it. They couldn't clearly distinguish what's meant by guest mind and host mind. When you heard this teaching for the first time, you had the feeling that it was something you already knew. And some people hearing this teaching for the first time had the feeling that it was hitting on something that they had already known in some way. But that it now had taken a... was verbalized.

[07:16]

Mm-hmm. And also some people who thought of themselves of having some experience with it, that they sometimes have the feeling of falling into the host mind without really intending it. And they also cannot generate it or extend it if it's about to disappear. And others have a feeling? That there can be some support of noticing or feeling the host mind.

[08:23]

the more you attend to it and the more you're trying to feel it. I don't usually make comments on the reports, but somehow this morning I feel like doing it a little bit, okay? Let me say that if you If you notice any difference between zazen mind and your usual mind, if you notice, for instance, that you think through a problem differently in zazen than you do in your usual mind, You're already noticing host mind.

[09:37]

Okay. And, of course, at first we often just fall into these things. The posture, other people sitting, it all helps you. It's contagious. You fall into it. And then you discover how easy it is to fall out of it. And then you can see here a difference between an intention and thinking mind, because thinking mind can't restore you to it, but intention can. You can see a difference between thoughts, thinking thoughts, and intentional thoughts.

[10:39]

Because thinking thoughts can't restore you to closed mind. But, you know, it's wonderful. Like we fall asleep, we fall into different states of mind. And sometimes we wake up inside them. So, please. You weren't finished, were you? What? Yeah, but now I don't know what I... I'll try to retain it, bring it back with intentional mind. Well, if it comes back, please say it. I shouldn't interrupt, maybe. Oh, good, thanks. By the way, thanks for bringing your cute little daughter.

[11:49]

She makes the whole seminar brighten up. Okay, go ahead. I also had difficulties with these concepts of host mind and guest mind, because I had the feeling, I know these different mental states, Because I thought, well, I know these different states of mind, what do I need these concepts for? But I realize that it's helpful for getting out of this thinking in terms of good and bad.

[12:56]

Because host and guest depend on each other, and you can't have one without the other. Mm-hmm. And also that there are many possibilities in deciding how you behave as a host. And that it is most pleasant to behave as a host without that is most pleasant to behave as a host without any obligations and rejection.

[13:59]

Or with an open house where guests can come and go, it doesn't really matter. Okay, yeah, that's good. This is good. And what use the terms are? Maybe not much, but sometimes they can be useful. But they definitely will help you understand some of the traditional teachings. Iris? I have the same group of questions. I was in the same group as Fritz. And I wondered whether host mind is the same as fundamental mind.

[15:00]

And we've discussed various things, but then I came to think that it's more about a relationship between host and guest mind. And maybe by accident or maybe not so much by accident, Katharina gave an example of her being a host in her own house. And that was more about being patient or impatient with guests. And I felt connected with this in terms of how I am as a host with guests.

[16:20]

And we've exchanged experience about how much space is there for me as a host and for guests. And that something can change without talking to the guests if I allow myself to enough space. Please, Katrin. I changed my posture and then everything changed, but I don't really know how I did it. Your posture in sitting, you mean? Or your posture as a host? Yeah, both.

[17:43]

Oh, okay. First in sitting and then something arose and love. So this is interesting because you've brought up a new point, not just do we start to notice the host mind, but do we start to welcome the guests? Okay, so, more? Okay, someone else? Yeah? In our group, there were also difficulties concerning the terms host and guest mind. And maybe we couldn't really resolve them. But an image came up that is quite similar to the one that we just heard about.

[18:56]

The host mind is a house or a field in which others are included. Then came the question whether the division of spiritual states And then the question came up whether it's possible to divide up mind into different states of mind, like you're cutting up a salami, or whether that is... Or whether that's a lot of baloney. Baloney is a word, a nice word for bullshit.

[20:10]

Or whether it's just a mindfulness practice to divide those... And then this led to the question how different states of mind are expressed physically or bodily. And then we came to discussing qualities like calm or lively. Mm-hmm. So that we actually came to the result that different states of mind are expressed differently through the body. And then there were questions.

[21:21]

One was, where is this intentional thinking located? What does it mean when you say non-thinking? We decided that this should be answered in practicing. This was a good group, I can see. Yes. We also discussed what happens when you try to take off the labels of things or taking off the sweater of the airplane. Yes, and then a very close connection is created, provided that one practices with a lot of precision.

[22:48]

Or then a close connection is established between oneself and the object if you are practicing with enough precision. In other words, taking the concept of enclosure off establishes more of an intimacy. It's also one way to describe or point to non-duality. Okay. And I don't want to skip over the last point because it might open up a new seminar practice. We talked about practice underwater. Tauchen. You mean we should ask them after they finish the roof to put a swimming pool in the back?

[24:18]

Or we could just fill the basement. Maybe a seminar house in the Red Sea. Oh, yeah. Well, I don't know about that. People have wanted me in the past to do rock seminars, dancing seminars. Yeah, and dancing, and then some seminar, and then some dancing. Tons and trons. Yeah, wasn't there a conference like that one? An instigator is present.

[25:21]

Anyway, I decided not to. It's better to keep them separate, except New Year's. But swimming? I'm going to talk about swimming today. Okay, someone else. First, I want to say that when we finished the discussion, we noticed that it was a really pleasant conversation that we had. We also talked about the host and the guest mind. In the end, we talked about the term connectedness. And we talked about how when we're together in a group like this, we have a connection with everybody.

[26:43]

And to some people we feel a stronger connection, is that what you say? And we feel connected with objects. Yes. One of the participants also brought up the term love in that connection. Yes, and I see here some people with whom I haven't been in conversation this weekend, but I imagine a connection somewhere. And then also in this room I see people I haven't talked to during this weekend, but I'm still establishing a connection with them.

[27:59]

And when I will have some contact with these people after some weeks or a month even, I would still feel that kind of connection. Yeah. Good. Thank you. Danke. Danke. Yeah. Well, I find it hard to summarize, But to me it seemed like one question that kind of went through the whole discussion was this difference between the host mind that we fall into. and the one we work towards.

[29:17]

Like, for example, one example was a shamanic workshop in which there was a lot of trance dancing or movement, and where one person achieved a state, or didn't achieve, that's the wrong word, just came... Danced their way into it. Yeah, danced their way into a state. where when someone else, when another person talked to her, she couldn't understand the words. So the question was whether that might be a good example of host mind. Host-host.

[30:27]

There were other examples of very different kinds of experiences, but they led in this direction, where the rational mind was kind of... cut off for a while. And then at the other end of the spectrum, what happens, let's say, in the time of one out-breath? Watching the guest come through the door. Or losing it. Mm-hmm. And also at the beginning there was some discussion as to whether the host has any kind of judgment.

[31:55]

Okay. Those are all good questions. Yeah. I'll refrain right now from responding, but I probably will eventually. Yes. I'm always surprised what happens when people try to have a conversation. What kind of texture emerges and how it emerges? I was also in Mishka's group, and in the end of the discussion we had the feeling that the host mind was present quite often during this conversation.

[33:11]

That was quite beautiful. Good, thanks. You know, my feeling now in the seminars I do is one part is certainly my trying to present some kind of practice, show some kind of practice. But I think equally important is the discussion we have. together for one part of the seminar.

[34:12]

I think it's really part of making practice our own. And noticing that it's our own. And then if we do the seminar here at Yonassav, the third ingredient is being in a practiced place. which Geralt says changes the atmosphere, even if I talk about the same thing in Hannover, some of the same things, here it's much more intense or something. What did you say? Concentrated. Yes. And Gerald said that this changes the atmosphere.

[35:15]

I spoke about similar or comparable things in Hannover and Gerald said that this is more intense and more concentrated here. This also results in completely different practical questions. It's funny, I try to say the same... I might try to say something similar, but it comes out different here. Okay, someone else? I found it difficult to start the conversation. I found it was hard to get started with the conversation. Yeah, because for one, I didn't really remember the questions. Oh, you make up your own thoughts.

[36:15]

Yes, then you just invent your own, and that's okay. Yes, that's why we are in a group. Yes, that's why we are in a group. But what also reminds me, when I sit here and listen to Roshi, is that I often just dive off. I just disappear, I don't hear anything. So with a consciousness of what Roshi says. Yeah, but it reminded me that when I'm sitting here, I don't really listen, or at least not with my conscious mind, but I'm kind of, I don't know, I'm kind of diving. The swimming is coming back. Yeah, and then I don't really listen with my conscious mind. But it's like I feel like it's as if I'm receiving this host mind from you.

[37:28]

So this arrives and then there's also something else that comes out of my own personal history and locks into that. And then I can be really, really awake again. I come to sit. I feel fresh again. And then it starts again at 8,000. Something comes from me and then Mainz comes again. And it's a constant movement in this And then for a while I'm awake again, and I'm entering sitting again, and then I'm kind of falling out of it again, and then something comes and locks in, and so it's being moved during the lecture in this way.

[38:55]

That's the idea, yes. You want to speak in a way that occupies consciousness enough and while the consciousness thinks it's busy you pour things in. Maybe they take, it's like a time capsule, maybe a tonic that begins to work later. Time released when you have those little pills that release over time. But an extreme example of that was when I think I told you this story before, but I'll just use it as an Italian. When Cobanchino, poor Cobanchino's dead, but anyway, when he first arrived in the United States, he didn't know English.

[40:03]

But Suzuki Roshi told him he had to give lectures in English. So he didn't know many English words. And he's a very intense guy. And he'd be sitting up at Tassajara. We'd all be pretty tired anyway, because getting up at 3.30. He would start out... Dogen Zenji said... And pretty soon the whole room... Really, honest to gosh, five or ten minutes later he... Yeah, Dogen, um... Yeah... And this went on for some months until he began to increase his vocabulary beyond...

[41:31]

And we used to sit there. It wasn't so different from the state of mind in Suzuki Roshi's lectures. It was more like yours. Okay, someone else. Host mind and sleeping mind are, you know. Now we'll try to discuss two topics or two questions. Who makes decisions? Like in your example with the finger. Is it a fundamental mind in form of fundamental intentions? Or is it a karma? Or is it something else? And another question was the relationship between thoughts, emotions and feelings.

[42:38]

So, how does it function? We tried to discuss it, but we didn't come to any conclusion. But the discussion felt fruitful, or did it feel like a dead end? Well, from my point of view, nobody could tell something, could explain, like an open question. Okay. Thanks. Did you say that in German? Maybe you can say that. We're all kind of... English? Maybe you can say that. In our group, we discussed two topics. We discussed the question of who makes the decision. In the example with the finger, when the finger turns around, the fundamental spirit

[43:46]

or is it karma that makes the decision? And the other topic was the interaction between thoughts, between emotions and feelings, how that works. But we are not Okay. Yeah. I want to say something about how I experience these group discussions in general. And the headline for this, if I had to pick one, would be a great enrichment. Oh. I get to know new guests.

[44:56]

I get to know what these new guests and older people think and how they repeat what they've learned in the seminar. I learned about my new reactions to this, which I didn't know about before. And I learned about how this mind that was mentioned many times now goes through different stages in these discussions. And there is a feeling of gratefulness, great gratefulness.

[46:11]

OK. Thank you for saying that. Yes. Yeah, I also appreciated working within the small groups even more than I did last time. In the end, I really had the feeling we had a feeling for this host mind together. able to make use of the guest mind to clarify terms and or to exchange how we understand these terms?

[47:22]

And an important topic for us was how do we find the intention, these intentions, how do we even get there with the An important point in our group was how do we happen to find these intentions? How do we happen to start studying Buddhism or working with it? Yeah, and the answer to this was something like a mixture between a bodily, cellular longing... Kind of feeling of being led by something, like in the example with the finger.

[48:56]

Okay. Dankeschön. Yes? I can make an addition to that, the one in the second group. We touched on also somehow the area of no conception. And somebody brought an experience where she went or came to a Buddha figure and somebody else, and both the people experienced that they saw that Buddha breathing. Independently, they didn't talk about it first. But were they watching it together? And of course the discussion first was, how is this possible, and why does a Buddha finger out of stone can breathe?

[50:21]

The trial was made to explain. At some point we felt that we should allow this experience as an experience, maybe without conception. And The atmosphere that was created by this was the appreciation that we can express such experiences here.

[51:28]

Deep knowing that these experiences are existent in some way. and a deep knowledge that there really are such experiences. Yes, thank you. Are there all the groups? Is there any group hiding behind a pillar? Okay, somebody from each of you all know, somebody from one of your groups spoke. So I think it's time for a break. And then we'll see what happens. Okay. Now we're forced into knowing about sleep.

[53:20]

Because we get tired, we have a psychological need to sleep. So we're forced into knowing there's two minds. Pretty clearly the mind of sleeping and dreaming while we're still alive, you know, is different from the mind of consciousness. But when we take this posture, this wisdom posture, that we're not... natural exactly, but a wisdom posture, we discover there's at least one more state of mind. This is a very big thing to really know this. Some people in the sixties had to force themselves into a third mind or fourth mind through psychedelics.

[54:45]

But we discover this mind, induce this mind through our yogic postures and practices. And discover how through our own power, our own resources, we can enter and articulate these other minds, which otherwise would go unnoticed, probably. Yeah, and articulate them. Consciousness is so dominant and domineering and so fully the field of the self and language that it basically

[56:05]

banishes other minds to the dungeon. And they're all musty and full of cobwebs. But through sitting you bring them up into the air, into the sunlight. And the sunlight helps, you know. I think these people go to these tanning tubes in order to meditate under the disguise of vanity. Yeah, because as I think you know, sunbathing is some kind of mind that's not awake and not asleep.

[57:35]

But we save that for vacations and weekends. But, you know, this mind is not only generated and induced... In some ways it's always present. And in many ways, in infants, it's the dominant mode of mind, although undeveloped. Okay. Now, the question came up, is this fundamental mind, is this host mind, is this big mind, etc.?

[58:45]

I think... That's not such a good way to frame the question. Really to avoid the implication of entity thinking. It's better to ask something like, when is the mind called? fundamental and when is it called host? When is this called a seminar room and when is this called a dining room? Now, if you think It's the same room with different juices, then you're still thinking in entities.

[59:58]

Scientific revolutions are not just a new description of the same world. It's the discovery of a different world that then needs to be differently described. That way of thinking, you really have to get if you're going to enter into your own experience in depth. It takes time. It takes time just to be open to anomalous experiences. Anomalous means ones that don't fit in.

[61:05]

Like stone Buddhas weeping in the night. I mean, breathing. There is a Zen saying, the stone woman weeps at night. And I think that these things that we call in Buddhism something like the intermediate world are best noticed but left unexplained. Indem wir es nicht erklären, geben wir uns die Erlaubnis, mehr zu bemerken. Explanation tends to sink the experience in consciousness.

[62:21]

And then consciousness makes us forget it. Yeah, my friend Michael Murphy, who did lots of interviews with athletes who had very unusual experiences in the course of their athleticism. But those that tended to explain them to themselves tended to then forget them. They didn't even remember they had them unless they got somewhat drunk. So we live in a world that we can't fully explain our language.

[63:23]

And whether we have examples of this or not, it remains that it's so. And it's helpful to be so open in our practice and mind. But let me... I don't want this to be an explanation, but I just want to... Because it's the two persons seeing the Buddha we could call a conspiracy. I'm quite happy to see Buddhas of all kinds breathe, including you. But also, you know, it's so interesting that our culture

[64:42]

calls breathing together a conspiracy. Terrorist conspiracy. Conspiracy just means to breathe together. But... It is the case that when we breathe together, we often share the other person's mind. And the more there's a feeling among us of breathing together, which is what Sangha is partly about, The more I know what to talk about, and there's always one or two people who decide to protect themselves by not breathing with the others or with me.

[66:07]

And, you know, I'm just not making this up. They've done films. Does that make it any more real? They've done films where they've shown two people or a group of people, and they've slowed it down to each frame being... extremely slow. And unless we feel, unless we resist the connectedness, because we're angry or fearful or something, There's actually an extraordinary coordination of eyelid movements, of breathing, that just happens between people.

[67:23]

You can see it in a gross form when people swallow or cough instead of... Yeah, we live in this kind of world. Now, I picked up last night a book by a living philosopher. Since he's living, I won't mention his name because I don't like to criticize living people. But the book says, on the jacket, this book makes clear this person is one of the greatest philosophers of the 20th century.

[68:27]

And he's one of the two or three leaders in trying to understand consciousness in terms of both philosophy and neuroscience. And he has a one chapter of many sections on just intentionality. And except Where he's being completely obvious, I don't agree with a single sentence he writes.

[69:33]

He has, from my point of view, an embarrassingly simple idea of consciousness and intention. Does that mean that we, who have a different feeling for consciousness and attention, are smarter or better philosophers? I don't think so. I think we just have a different experience. And that experience is still not generally acknowledged by the formal culture.

[70:35]

Okay. So let me try to say something about intention, obviously. Isn't that the seminar? I don't know. I don't necessarily think I have to follow the title, but I'll try. It's not necessarily my intention to follow the title. Okay. So first maybe I should define the old distinction, make again the old distinction between awareness and consciousness. These are two simple distinctions like host mind and guest mind. And describing them differently makes them useful in a different way.

[71:47]

The root of consciousness is S-C-I, and that is the same root as scissors, meaning to cut. And so consciousness is discriminating mind, mind cut up into words, concepts, et cetera. And awareness, the root of awareness is to watch or to guard. And in the case of intention, that's actually a useful, the root is useful.

[72:52]

in understanding awareness. In the case of... Usually, the root of awareness is not so important to me, but in this case, with discussing intention, it has some importance. Now, I have a simple, usual description of awareness. is when Sophia falls down the stairs or you fall on the sidewalk and you save yourself. Happens very quickly, faster than consciousness. It's awareness that did it. And when you're sound asleep and yet somehow something happens, makes you aware of what's going on in the room or makes you aware that you are supposed to get up at 6.02.

[73:58]

That's awareness through which the intention to get up at a particular time can penetrate, even if you're not conscious. Now, those are two categories that are useful understand and have a feel for if you're going to understand to practice. Now, what I said earlier in the seminar was that intention and attention are the two main tools of practice. And the simplest example of the two, because they're thoroughly related.

[75:22]

It's obvious that they have the same root, ten. And ten means to stretch, to... To move towards. Yeah, it's the same word as tendon and tone and tension. And tantra. And tantram, which means a loom. Tantram means a loom. And it's interesting how weaving and looming, looming, looming. are present in some of the basic words for practice.

[76:35]

Like the root of the word ordain, like to be ordained as a monk or priest. To take the precepts. This means the row of threads in a loom. Ara. Ara. And it's the root of arm and right and, yeah, words which mean to fit together. Right, R-I-T-E. R-I-T-E, right. Oh, ritus, right. And rhyme. Rhyme is to fit together. Okay. Tenere in French means something like to hold together, to hold.

[77:57]

And the word dharma means to hold or to stay, what stays in the midst of everything changing. Yeah, so anyway, in a way we could say the root ten has a lot of our teaching in it, our practice in it. Now, a simple example of the use is we have an intention to bring attention to the breath. Now, these are two words. But these words gather ourselves into the activity of the word.

[79:11]

And the activity of the word intention gathers the mind. And the activity of the word attention gathers the body. And the activity of the word attention One gathers the body and the other gathers the mind. And so when you have an intention to bring attention to the breath, you're bringing mind and body into the breath. Attention carries intention. And intention sustains attention.

[80:23]

So, again, attention is a magic wand. What you bring your attention to often tends to happen. So what you bring your attention to is extremely important. If we say, if I say to finding that consciousness is a function of mind, and self is a function of consciousness, we could say that ego, is a function of self.

[81:41]

We could also say it's a cancer of awareness. Well, we could say intentional mind is a function of awareness. Because the main block to or interference with or affliction of awareness, host mind, etc., is all self-relevant, self-referential thinking. All Self-centered thinking, seeing everything as centered around yourself or in reference to yourself.

[82:53]

Because self then is a kind of intention. And naturally in consciousness the self functions. function through, you know, connectedness, separation and so forth. But when self becomes our intention it's always always trying to control or measure or think about ourselves in relation to other people. It's the main delusion. It's the main affliction. But not only is self in any permanent sense a delusion, but when self functions as an intention and begins to function in our awareness,

[84:24]

Then there's no real freedom from conceptual thinking. You may have some insights, etc., but everything is quite abbreviated and not mature, not realized. So rather than thinking, oh, being selfish or self-centered is a moral problem, It's actually a problem of realization, of knowing yourself fully. Now, this idea of a deeper... an innermost request or a deep inner request.

[85:45]

It's not a religious idea. It's just a compassionate idea. And we can define compassion as non-referential love. non-self-referential love. So we can understand this deep inner request is that probably each person really wants to live as fully and as fully connected as possible. And to assume that about each person is simply to give them the benefit of the doubt. To assume the best of all possible worlds for each person.

[87:09]

Okay. Intentions are something like dolphins. They swim in the ocean, but they keep surfacing. And they breathe the air of consciousness and go back under it. But they're not like dolphins because they can also live underwater. No. What characterizes an intention is that it... Functions in awareness. Functions in our unconscious and non-conscious. A friend of mine in the United States is a very popular psychologist. Singer.

[88:20]

From the 60s until today. And she says that when she was three years old, she intended to become a singer. No, she's also talented. But she's not more talented than many people. And I'm sure it's not the talent that's made the difference, it's the intention that's made the difference. Because attention functions in us as a continuous awareness. Is it then a form of long-term memory? No, long-term memory is just something you can retrieve, but it's not always present.

[89:40]

But intentional awareness is always present. It may only occasionally surface as consciousness. and mostly the other side. So the trick is, the skill is, how do you Find an intention and so frame it that it swims out of sight. Yeah, and poetry has to do that. Good poetry has to swim out of consciousness into minds not yet discovered. I remember something I just read on the side of a newspaper.

[90:54]

book review newspaper thing when I was about 15 or 16. For the poisonous sea and the cruel star. The one by day and the one by night. have charmed me. For some reason that has stayed with me ever since I read it. Somewhat present by day and by night. Yeah, all of us remember, I think, parts of poems that come back occasionally or popular songs.

[92:10]

She turned away. turned away. But with the autumn weather compelled my imagination many days and many hours. But she turned away, but with the autumn weather compelled my imagination many days and many hours. Her hair over her arms and her arms full of flowers. That stays with me too all the time. I have a romantic streak.

[93:14]

Blown hair is sweet, brown hair over the mouth blown. We don't need to translate anymore. Okay, so sometimes we remember, it's almost, no, it's poems. Okay. So how do you frame something? And that's what wados or gate phrases, mantras are about. Because... The words have to stick together. Because they're going to go where consciousness won't hold them together. So if you frame an intention, if you have an intention, it has to have a certain kind of quality that works in awareness.

[94:33]

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