somehow is taking care of each of us and of me. I feel the cup somehow reaches to, the skin of the cup somehow reaches to Ivan. Now, has everyone I know tried to take care of me? Unfortunately not. But I make a choice. I make a choice to treat each thing in the world, the piece of celery or the cup. And as I say, this is my weak point. But I try to develop habits like this. And treat each thing as if it is Buddha nature. It's part of this mutually arising, co-arising world.

[01:16]

The circularity of this world. The world isn't just always changing. It's always interchanging. And with respect, with a feeling of respect for each thing, I enter this interchanging as a kind of habit. You know, when I'm driving, I always bow for every animal I see along the road that's been killed. There's no logic to it. Or every time a moth hits the windshield. It's kind of hard at night sometimes.

[02:18]

You have to drive with one hand and keep your hand up all the time because moths are hitting it. And sometimes when I'm driving with someone who doesn't know my habit, they, what is he doing over there? But I can't say this is good or bad to do this. It's not logical, but it's my habit. But I feel somehow it enters the circularity of this interchanging world. I feel when I do things with two hands, somehow my hands touch everything.

[03:32]

And I think if we have some... This is some traditional spirit like this. We'll develop our practice here together that will make it possible for us all to realize this initial mind as the taste and also the actualization of Buddha nature. as a taste and also the realization of Buddha nature. Yes, thank you very much. May we bring our purpose to you, so that we may be able to serve you in every way and in every way. May we serve you in every way and in every way.

[04:36]

May we serve you in every way and in every way. Alleluia. Alleluia. Alleluia. Die leeren Wesen sind zahllos, ich gelobte sie zu leiden. Die Gehirnen sind unverschrecklich, ich gelobte sie aufzugehen. Die Paratorische Systeme misste ich, ich gelobte sie zu verschreien. Der Weg des Bruders ist unerwünscht, ich gelobte sie zu vernünftigen. Do you want the door open?

[06:07]

Yeah. It's too cold. No, no, it's fine. Okay. Okay. Coffee? Coffee? No, no, no. It makes me sit up. That was what I understood. Can I have a coffee? When you ask for a coffee. Can I have a coffee? Can I have a coffee? Well, now that you mention it, These practice weeks are obviously different than the

[07:34]

seminars. And, yeah, they're less dense, at least in terms of our meeting. And they're slower pace. And we can look at things in more detail. For instance, I wouldn't introduce koan material in this way in a seminar. Yeah, so I would like some, particularly those of you who came to the seminar in the practice week, some idea of some feedback on how this is for you.

[08:42]

Also on whether having this kind of koan material works for us even in just the length of time of a week. Koans have always appealed to me. And Sekirashi spent the first hundred weeks of my practicing with him lecturing every week on a koan. I don't remember exactly whether it was more than 100 weeks or less, but anyway, that's what we did. But still, it's taken me, I wouldn't say decades, before I can just read a koan like it was normal stuff.

[10:09]

So I may have lost touch with it. accessible it is or not accessible it is for you. So I always wonder, should I bring it up in a practice week or a sesshin or not? So please help me. I don't have a lot of experience with koans. I'm taking them like medicine.

[11:09]

I don't know how it will affect me, but it seems as if something is happening. Question about seminar and practice week. I didn't feel a density or a concentration like we have here during the seminar And I think it has to do with that the structure of the seminar is more falling apart Because there are so many people and they haven't seen each other for quite a while and because of that so many other things are going on and they are not precisely the theme of the seminar

[12:26]

So it's a dharma party as well as a seminar. Maybe it's like taking care of the sangha. Yeah, but no wonder for a seminar there are only twenty people, what it would feel like. Okay, good, thank you. Yes? It is the first time that I'm in a practice week. I participated in sessions and weekend seminars. I liked the koans and the stories, but there was a discrepancy between what we told and the stories. But there was a big difference between what you said and the stories.

[13:43]

And inside I was more concentrating on what you were saying. And the koans were like on a track beside everything else, and it's like reading a book at home and reflecting on it. It was good to gain an intellectual and emotional access to it, but for me there were two paths. It was good to have a feeling access and an intellectual access to the koans, but these were like two tracks. Would it have been better just one track without the koans?

[14:46]

I don't know. Okay. And I'm feeling now that I have a question that doesn't refer to the Korans, but to something you have said before. Yeah. Well, and also, I just asked this question. That doesn't mean we should not have some sort of discussion about what we discussed in our groups and so forth. So, this is just one aspect of what I'd like to Do this afternoon. So if you have a question, I'm listening. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm confused.

[15:52]

It came through a picture you have given. And it's the picture of this initial mind that's on the level zero. And because of that picture I found out that I have a picture about my practice. And this picture has the level zero if I'm in my stomach, if I'm concentrated or centered in my stomach, and if I'm aware. And it's based on a sentence you had said before, meditation is nothing else than the embodiment of each self.

[17:03]

And then I'm starting from this zero point into my thoughts. And there I'm cutting off. And there I'm cutting off. But it also goes down from this point zero into this non-graspable space. And now these two pictures mix and they get confused. What's the confusion between non-gospel space and zero? I have the feeling now if I go into meditation, there has to be an intention to go into this empty space.

[18:18]

That's not bad. Then I have the feeling I'm losing my bodily feeling and I'm moving forth and back in this empty space. And that's why I initially started meditation, so that I don't do that. Okay. Well, first, I'm suggesting things, right? But I'm suggesting things not to replace what you already do. I'm trying to leaven what you do.

[19:23]

Leaven is to add yeast, like when you leaven bread. And so, yes? Anyway, so... you should really trust what you do and what your habit in sitting is. And if you bring the intention to find this, let's say, empty space, you just bring the intention. If it takes, fine. If it doesn't, you forget about it. Yeah, these are... You know, somebody's taking it, leaving tomorrow, I say, drive safely.

[20:34]

Or drive slowly in the snow. But if the snow's mostly gone, they're going to drive the way they want. My suggestion is just a suggestion. And you want to kind of like, maybe it interests you to come back to it occasionally, but you don't force it on yourself. And as I said this morning, this very clarity of the images is actually a problem. It makes it somewhat artificial. You don't want to make the shoe fit. Do you have that expression? Not directly, but I can translate it.

[21:38]

You give somebody a shoe that doesn't quite fit them, but they try to make it fit. I heard barrier, that is more intellectual. And the body, that's something I can accept very well. And the other stuff I think I can do after my death. After your death? Optimistic. That's fine. I hope it's a long time until you try it.

[22:43]

I hope it is a long time until she tries it. But mostly what I was talking about was not something you do in Zazen. But something you do when you like just walk in the room. You walk in the room and you feel it first and think it second. If you meet somebody, you notice them or feel them without thinking. And then what you described as a kind of hara-centered concentration may then start coming into your daily life and not just be in your sāsana. So you're trying to make space in your daily life and in your activity for this.

[24:01]

Because Zen practice limited to Zazen is, yeah, it's helpful, but in the full idea of Zen, it's inconsequential almost. The real point is to bring this into your everyday, every moment of your life. Zazen gives you the strong taste of it, so maybe it's possible. I find the seminar and the practice week more like a funnel. And these Teixos and the discussion and the small groups and the presentation of the case all brought it somehow down to one point.

[25:18]

And today when we looked at the Quran it first felt like a wall and suddenly the wall crumbled And for me it was the feeling as if the whole seminar came to that point Okay. You're the kind of practitioner I like. Half price. Half price next time. Yes. I would like to ask something about the two initial minds.

[26:38]

They remind me a lot of Dalai Lama, the picture he uses. Wisdom and compassion like the two wings of a bird. How can I practice two different things in one moment, since I only can practice in one moment? And here in the koan it says, through all the five ranks, how could you die under a phrase? How do you understand that?

[27:45]

It's not possible to do a specific practice. It doesn't make sense. You take that to mean it's not possible to do a specific practice. It doesn't make much sense to give me a goal or something and say I'm here and I want to go there and this is what I practice. Give you a goal or a goal, did you say? Goal, I said. Well, Today I bought, I had to go shopping because Louise was sick. I bought an emmentaler from, a little slice from... Switzerland and a little slice from a German Emmentaler.

[29:10]

The guy said, do you want the original? And I said, oh, yes, I want the original. So I thought I might as well compare them, see if there's any difference. I probably won't eat them both at once. I'll eat one in one moment. And that's a bit like practicing with these two initial minds. If you feel like one, try it. If you feel like the other, try it. If you feel like only one of them, try it. If you feel like only one of them, only try that one. Yeah. You can also think of them as two doors.

[30:37]

But they're doors to you don't know what. One door may work for you better than the other. Or you might try both doors over a period of some months. And find out after you maybe have got a feeling for both of them, you're suddenly on the inside of this space which these doors entered into. And you turn around and look back to find the two doors you came in. And there's a thousand doors. And you could have come in any one of them. Something like that.

[31:52]

So it really is what experience this opens up, not what these two doors are. Yes, sir? I'm a little bit confused about that so separated. What's so separated? Is non-respirable feeling a subject-based objectivity? They seem separated to you? Yes, the way you spoke about it. The question was put and you aren't... As if they were separate. Yes. But for me they feel connected. So when I'm in the feeling of this non-breathable feeling of space,

[33:01]

there's kind of included this don't forget don't forget deutsche What confuses me a little now about this question and answer between Boas and Roche is that it is seen as two separate states of mind, one of which is this indescribable feeling and the other this objectivity that is based on the subject. That's my question, is that true? By the way, was Boris in my conversation translated?

[34:13]

Did you translate it? Okay. Well, for you, they're connected. For him, he sees them more separate. That's okay. Both are okay. I presented them as separate, as different doors, but the experience of them may well be very similar. But I think that it's up to each of you. Each of you will find your own way. There's not one way. Yes. I'm a complete newcomer. Really? You look familiar. And I'm nervous to say something. Oh, okay. And here there are practicing Buddhists and I'm not one.

[35:38]

And I would like to say something about the week, how I felt. And also about the koans and specifically about the one from today. The case today between... Where do you go? On pilgrimage. And what is the... Where do you go on pilgrimage? My pilgrimage. I answered, I don't know. And I say I don't know And that's how I felt in this week I'm coming from Vienna and it's a very long way My intention to sign up for this here was not my interest in Buddhism but because I saw the program and the title, The Wisdom of Not Knowing and that jumped at me, so to speak.

[36:56]

And it felt as if I had to drive here Oh, thank you And in the beginning I felt very happy and I was very comfortable right from the beginning Then I had a small realization, finding out why I had to come. I thought I knew what it means, the wisdom of not knowing. It was like that, now I know. Now you know, I'm not knowing. Yes, good. Now you know.

[38:17]

I made a connection to my job. And I'm a midwife because the children called me. It's like a calling. And when I look into the eyes of the children, And if I look in the children's eyes, I see there's wisdom. Wisdom of not knowing. Then I thought, okay, fine. I'm on the right path. And then came the many talks, the quants, the lectures. And then the discussion groups came and the koans and the talks. I'm completely confused.

[39:27]

I'm confused, it's stupid. I'm not, this is not the right place. And your talk today? Something through your talk opened and my heart started to understand And this too? And also the koan? It was like, I don't know.

[40:28]

That's today's con. Oh, you have a different piece of paper? No, I have a German translation. Oh, someone did a German translation? Nice. Christian Bild, Christian Becker. Oh, we all read Christian from a long time ago? Yeah. Okay. That's what I had to say. Yeah, I would think being a midwife, on the one hand you know a lot, or you couldn't be a midwife. And the body of the woman knows a lot, or it couldn't have a baby and give birth. And having been present during the birth of my three children, back in 1962, Wouldn't let me go in.

[41:45]

And I said I'd handcuff myself to my wife if you don't let me go in. They didn't know what to do until they said okay. You really did this? Yeah, I said I would. I was totally prepared to. Yeah, yeah. I didn't have to, no, because they gave in finally. Okay. Well, if I hadn't, they hadn't given in, boy. Clamp. Clamp. Clamp. It might have been more fun to clamp our ankles together. So I've gotten a lot of the medical establishment often doesn't trust the woman's body. So even though the woman's body knows, the baby knows what to do, the midwife knows what to do,

[42:49]

In the midst of all that, unknowing is the best approach. To just be open to what happens. That's very much what the wisdom of not knowing means. Now, how do you bring that into your life? Now, I took these small parts out of the koan because it has very good practice advice, prescriptions, like in relationship to what we were talking about, in walking, in sitting, just hold to the moment before thought arises. Look into it and you'll see, not see.

[44:18]

And then put it to one side as each moment you put to one side. So that's no different than my saying, notice without thinking. So this whole thing, you could take this whole seminar, you could take this one phrase, hold to the moment before thought arrives. So you really are in a state of not knowing. Of openness or readiness. So it's not just the idea of not knowing, you actually feel, it's a physical feeling.

[45:23]

Through meditation practice you learn to know this moment before thought arises. And it becomes a habit. And then you can just let things appear. Yeah. So I'm supporting the birth process more like in a wider sense, not just the birth. I'm supporting the mother in a wider sense. Is that something like during birth there is no time existent?

[46:28]

Isn't that the same state of mind you just described? Yes, exactly. Maybe you did come to the right place. Okay, someone else? Yeah. I'm working for quite a while with the koan that follows this one in the book of Serenity When do I know? And it became clearer for me during this week When I describe the physical feeling

[47:32]

If I would describe the bodily feeling? It's more like dawn or little light and half dark, half light. Okay. This other thing I want to talk about. It's an experience I try to make into a habit. It is a little opposite or different from what you're describing. If I leave a room and if I become aware of just for one second what happened what I did in the room and then I close it like a book that's good

[48:57]

Yes, of course, it's nice. I just wanted to share the experience. Yes, thank you very much. Okay? Yes? And a practice week like this is something new for me. Yes. And I know it's not sesshin, it's also not a practice period. Something in between. I think we could have brought in more a feeling of sesshin or practice period if we would have followed the advice not to talk from beginning in the evening until lunchtime. And that advice was given, but no one followed it.

[50:32]

There was always talking going on after the last period in the evening. Oh, yeah. You're not the kind of student I... No, no, no. I don't know if you're the police, but somehow we... Yeah, I think that's true. I'm sure you did. It should at least go up through Taisho. Okay, so next practice week we'll make that clearer. What also is new to me is daily working in small groups and also having a new text every day. That's new. I think that you could just take one sentence out of these many texts and that would last for the week or a whole year.

[51:57]

Yes, that is true. And instead of we are kind of bouncing around in all these texts and then we say, okay, the next one, yeah. And instead we jump from one text to the next and then we say the next one. And I kind of was a little bit waiting for the permission to go to the not knowing. And maybe there's, I don't know if this is a detour, all these texts to the not knowing, or maybe there's a shortcut to the not knowing. Okay, umleiten, ja. Umleitung, ja. Okay, thank you. Yes. Ich habe, oder mir ist bei dieser Praxiswoche so deutlich wie noch nie zuvor geworden, welche Schwierigkeiten ich habe, die gesprochenen Worte zu behalten.

[53:04]

I never realized as much as I did in this week to remember the said words, what was said. And it was much... For me it was much easier to have a text and re-read the text and then try to understand it. And I have a hard time to repeat and remember spoken words. My question is whether it would be possible for you to give your lectures in the form of theses. My question is, couldn't you make like written points about what you are saying, like teases? Maybe it's my fault I can't repeat it. What is so funny about what he's saying?

[54:21]

These things that... He just said they think something completely different from what I was talking about. Do you mean that if... During a lecture, if I say such and such, we might take one sentence or something of that out of it and then make that the text for the next day. That would be one idea. And so the background story is that I understood many of your talks only when I had heard them again and that was in my car. And then I could repeat it.

[55:38]

Yeah, many people tell me that. Some people have listened an unbelievable number of times, driving somewhere regularly daily. But I intend my lectures to be like that. But if one of you is particularly alert, and is sensitive to what the Sangha would like to hear, not just what they would like, in your own practice like to hear. Yes, each lecture you might take a paragraph or two out of it, write little notes, and we could use it for the text. That might be interesting. It might be good.

[56:45]

I don't know. It might be fun for me. Okay, thanks for the suggestion. It's good. Yes. I have a question about the time after the practice work. I realised in this week that my skin gets very thin, open and I'm driving back into my job and I don't know how to prevent this transition I don't know how to live through this or take care of this, manage this change.

[57:50]

This is me. Transition, yeah. The smallest details touch me like during the time when I was a child. That's not something I can do in my job. What kind of possibilities do I have to protect myself? Well, you know something. You don't want to forget it. But you also have to function in your job. But, you know, if you really do, and I think you do know something, then you, some kind of craft, intuition,

[58:56]

love, compassion. You try to not lose that, lose this. Even though you have to go back into your habits and sometimes protective habits. But you maybe make a little vow to yourself. I'll take the protection off. as soon as I'm strong. And really, that kind of decision is what keeps us practicing. And if you trust and treasure this enough, you'll find a way. Someone else?

[60:07]

Yeah. Oh, no, that's not... Let me hear it. Okay. I'll come back. I don't want to forget. Anyone else? Yes. I... I'd like to share an experience. It's related to points that have already been made. Basically, I felt an overload of great stuff. like sentences that resonated with me. Parts of the Tosha that moved me.

[61:11]

But I felt like I was suddenly... I wanted to keep it all. And suddenly I felt as if I wanted to hold everything. Because it was so good. And the result was that I was carrying suitcases with me. And the experience I want to share that I decided last night to leave my suitcases at the door of the zendo. And going into the zendo with no baggage was

[62:13]

a lightening experience. And just being with my breath, The true richness of what this information is, what was in those baggages, baguettes, arose. Yeah, that's the best way to keep all these things, to let them go.

[63:27]

And then different ones bob up. Someone else? Yes. Oh, no! No, no, no. Maybe you could talk a little bit how to keep some of those things in our normal life. Or maybe a little bit closer to what I'm experiencing is maybe how to have more trust in all this in our normal life, or more confidence maybe. Maybe you could talk about how we can bring things that we experience here into our normal life. I think the key is what you said, to have more trust in your normal life.

[64:31]

And you're at a good point in your life. Because you still have more opportunity than most of us to kind of really find a life, create a life that you really fully trust. And that's really one of the main points of the Eightfold Path. Yeah, the Buddha's first teaching. Yeah, the right views and... Right intentions and right speech and right conduct and then right livelihood. You put a livelihood together that you can speak about and act out

[65:48]

the fullness of whatever you are. And that kind of life best allows you to meditate. That kind of life best allows you to meditate. And to, as the Eightfold Path says, and to realize wisdom. So I think your intuition is right. How can I trust or have a life, ordinary life, regular life, I can trust? Okay. Do you have anything you'd like to share while you're here? Anything you've... What happened in your group?

[67:07]

What happened for you? This is the first time you've been here, so you... Wow. Yeah, and this is the first time that I've... came to Buddhist temple, no, house. So, and do you remember that I am a Baptist? No, I forgot. Anyway, yeah, I'm a Baptist. So I had a hard time for two days. For the first two days. And I'm from Asia. And here in the western country everybody is doing Asian things. It feels so strange.

[68:26]

And I remember the first time I joined the service. And I got so scared of the sound of chanting. And bowing. And so after the service, we had a big fight. Anyway, and during the orioke... I felt like so stupid because I'm from Asia and everybody, Western people, is trying to teach me the wisdom from Asia.

[69:28]

Anyway, after two days it was okay. And I was kind of proud of the Asian wisdom. From your talking and discussions, That was good that it didn't sound so foreign to me. And now I feel that I made a good decision to experience this. Suzuki Roshi's wife, his second wife, and the only wife I knew, because his first wife was unfortunately murdered, and her

[70:48]

His second wife's first husband was shot down by Americans. He was a pilot. But she was a wonderful person and a good friend of mine. And she... Geez, I don't know how long they were married, but... Twenty years or more, something like that. Anyway, she was a Christian. And after Suzuki Roshi died, I spoke to her. She said, you know, I... All those years living with Suzuki Roshi, I became a Buddhist. But she said, I never told him. My friend Tanahashi Sensei, who does a lot of the calligraphy here, he says in Japan the best thing is to be a Christian.

[72:28]

In America the best thing is to be a Buddhist. You see your own culture better. Yeah, so you bring Western wisdom to Korea. Someone else? Okay. Very much like the discussions. Yes, John. And until now, I never had felt at home.

[73:31]

Until now, you never felt at home? No. Oh, she has felt at home, but never that strong like this time. Oh, good. And it would have been better for me if we would have been silent in the evenings. Okay, good. Maybe tonight we practice some silence. Okay. Hildegard? And you have asked if we like to work with koans and if it was helpful for us. And I never had worked with quartz. And I found it difficult.

[74:33]

And I had the feeling I don't understand anything. except for some pictures and some short phrases or half phrases. And in addition to that I found it very difficult to talk about it and put it into words. And although it's a very nice and good opportunity to talk with people you usually don't talk with, I had the feeling that the talking separated me more from the people than had brought me closer to them.

[75:53]

And after we had read the last text today, that I realized that it says nearness at the top. And ask me if I am the closest to people when I know nothing about them, And I'm asking myself if I'm closest to the people if I don't know them or if we don't have words in between. Well, if you notice like that when you're

[77:05]

In the group, sometimes a discussion separates you. Yeah, that gives you something to practice with. What happens through discussion or talking? And I've given the example a number of times. If you get lost out here in the woods in the snow and you see a stranger after a few hours, you feel very happy to see them. Perhaps until they start talking. What happens at that change? And if you have some feeling of particular phrases, that's the entry to all koan work. The whole thing is like it says here, Di Jiang's method of guiding people, the hook is in an unsuspected place.

[78:26]

So usually these koans are meant to kind of like say this and this and you know what's going on and then one phrase hooks you. And my lectures basically use the technique of koans. I try to speak in a way that allows certain phrases to jump out, and then you can work with them. Sometimes I make it very specific, like noticing without thinking. But that's like a koan presents things. You can work with not knowing is nearest. See if in the middle of a conversation you can feel nearer by

[79:29]

not grasping what the person is saying, but just listening or something like that. It's a kind of craft you have to play around. Noticing without thinking. And sometimes, and also I try to have phrases in the koans that I don't make explicit because it's really better if you feel them yourself. Okay, I think we've gone over the time. Does anybody else want to say something? I think we have run out of time. Would anyone else like to say something? Yes, very shortly. Because you just mentioned that your tashos are like that, working like a koan, just that we get one phrase out of it.

[80:47]

And I very clearly had this morning this experience when you described the word respect and... I think it's really great. I could feel it, how the power of this word to step back and to see, and to see even the future in it. When you describe this with this, if you pick up your teacup, you can actually feel that the world is taking care of you. Yeah, that really touched me. Thank you. My head is head on.

[82:12]

Oh, is it? Of course not knowing is not something we can speak too much about.

[83:23]

The best we can do is get a feeling for not knowing is something positive. But in what way is not knowing something positive? And when is it something positive? When is not knowing also wisdom? Well, I would say it's when we can act through not knowing. Or along with not knowing. You know, I... Much of the day I, of course, see little Sophia.

[84:36]

She does the funniest things. She rushes in to pee on the potty. rushes in to pee on the potty. And she's so pleased, she takes it out and looks at it and puts it down and then she sits in the hole and pees on the floor. The hole in the potty. And then she's willing to, I mean, wash her doll in it, you know, anything she wants. She's ready to do anything. I've told her Napoleon's army brushed their teeth with urine, but she didn't really understand. Supposedly that's how fluoride was discovered, that helped the teeth.

[85:38]

Anyway, she's growing up. And from my point of view, I feel her growing into a kind of darkness. And we don't really know what she'll be like. We can make predictions, you know. But, you know, I... One feels certain predictabilities. But mostly I feel the darkness into which she's growing. Now I'm using darkness in the sense of the Sandokai. It's a cure she has a book out of. lectures that Tsukiyoshi gave on the Sandokai.

[86:50]

I should say that there are as much about the people who happen to be in the lecture as the Sandokai, but still they're interesting lectures. And in the Sandokai, light means many things we can see, differentiation. Darkness means those things we can't see. There's things there, just like if it was completely dark in this room, there'd be things here, we just couldn't see them. So darkness is used to mean some big mind.

[87:54]

Or we can say, along with Sukhirishi, one whole being. One whole being exists in darkness. No, we can only see part of the whole being in the light. Now there's this kind of idea or image to just give us a feeling for this. positive aspect of not knowing or of darkness.

[88:55]

If I call it darkness, you can understand Yeah, but there's things there, you just can't see them. But if I call it also one whole being, I think just calling it this name deepens our feeling for it. Because we're living this one whole being. And sometimes we call this one whole being Buddha nature. If you prefer to keep Buddhism more scientific, you can just call it one whole being.

[90:01]

But then why do we call it a being? Why do we not just say it's darkness or not knowing? Why does this darkness have a quality of beingness? Much of the history of Buddhism is in this kind of development of this kind of understanding. Now, you know, if you read various scholars trying to define Buddha nature, for example, Not very many have tried because it's very hard to try to speak about it.

[91:05]

But some have tried and tried to show the historical development of the idea. But it remains an idea. When Suzuki Roshi, if someone asked him, what is Buddha nature? He would say something like, well, this can't be explained. Just follow our way and you'll understand. Yeah. Just continue your practice. Yeah, that doesn't help most of us either.

[92:07]

That's very convenient for the teacher to say, just follow our way. The teacher might be wrong or he might not know anything else but this. So how can we find the value of just to practice our way? Well, first of all, we can understand it as a as perhaps a more subtle as something more subtle than just an idea of Buddha nature.

[93:17]

So if Buddha nature is If we just have an idea of it, I think we can see it's not helpful. Well, what's the alternative? Well, one alternative is just to practice our way. So I think then you'd have to understand that practicing our way is a form of Buddha nature. And this you'd have to discover for yourself. Yeah, so I'm trying to, yeah, yeah. Yeah, give you in a way some kind of bigger feeling for it.

[94:21]

So I do think there's a difference if I relate to Sophia in terms of predictability, what I want her to become. Or if I'm more than that, have a feeling for the darkness which she's growing into.

[94:44]

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