What we'd like to do is continue as we did yesterday and to open the forum for some questions and see where that leads us, because it seemed to be a really rich and beautiful exchange yesterday, the quality of the questions, the interchanges. So let us begin with that. Ja, wir werden da weitermachen, wo wir gestern aufgehört haben und das Forum öffnen für Fragen von euch. Das war gestern so eine schöne Atmosphäre und so viele reiche und tiefgehende Fragen und solch ein schöner Austausch unter uns allen, dass wir da einfach weitermachen werden. Da hat jemand von euch eine Frage. She's very much interested in the God picture or image, God image in Judaism. In Judaism, we have this basic one of the Ten Commandments that says you shall have no graven images.

[01:37]

Now, this is understood to warn us about the tendency of the mind to conceptualize. That any concept, any idea, any, oh, I know what God is. That every concept, every idea, every idea, oh, I know what God is, that is forbidden.

[02:42]

It's not just don't have statues and don't have pictures. Because statues and pictures are easy to eliminate. But concepts of God are much harder to get out of your head. So in a sense, I always compare that commandment to the Taoist statement, the Tao that can be talked about is not the real Tao. So we'd say the God that can be conceived of is not the real God. And once we've established that, then we can have all sorts of images.

[03:57]

Because at the same time we talk about, we use images of God, not in pictures or statues, but we talk about God sees or God hears. We talk about God's outstretched arm. We talk about God's characteristics of loving, forgiving, and so on. In most of the literature in Kabbalah and in mainstream Jewish teachings, as soon as an image is presented

[05:17]

right away is something saying, but of course it's not really like that. And yet we have the image of God as father, God as king, which usually imply a feminine parallel, though we use the masculine terminology, and it's a problem today. Natürlich gibt es Bilder von Gott als Vater, von Gott als König, und wir benutzen hier gewisse familiäre Begriffe, natürlich jetzt in der männlichen Form, was heutzutage ein Problem schafft, wie wir alle wissen. which is why it's so important not to have a concept or an image. Is this feeling about images, no graven images, connected to the, I believe, Jewish custom to, when someone passes away, when somebody dies, to cover the mirrors?

[06:42]

I think the simple explanation for that is to take the person away from any sense of self-consciousness so that they can mourn fully and freely without saying, oh my gosh, my hair is a mess. Well, it wouldn't be your problem, but... But this does raise an interesting issue because if we talk about the image of God, The ultimate image of God, and it's stated clearly in the Torah, that God made humankind, God made people, God made man and woman in his image.

[08:06]

And in a sense, we have used as our main metaphor of God creating the human being is an image of someone who makes idols, who gathers some clay from the earth, and makes it into an image. So, in a sense, we have to say that each human being is the image of God. And I guess in, I mean, probably one of the most ancient and deep debates in Judaism, this traditional question where somebody comes to one of the great rabbis and says, teach me the whole Torah standing on one foot, standing on one leg.

[09:53]

You know, can you say the whole thing Very simply. And the one says, love your neighbor as yourself. It says, this is the whole Torah. The idea being that all this God stuff is only so good as it comes down to the way you relate to your neighbor, to the other. And the debate, and it turns out really there's not much of a debate between them, but the other says, no, you don't love, the essence of the Torah isn't that you love your neighbor as yourself because your neighbor is like yourself and you should do unto others as you want others to do unto you.

[11:14]

It's not enough that there's this human care So the argument is presented saying the essence of Torah is where it says God made man in his image. And the reason I must love everyone is because everyone is God. And perhaps, maybe, I don't know how many people would understand or practice it this way, But perhaps the reason we say have no pictures and no images is so that you will bring your focus to seeing God in every single person.

[12:33]

I would like to know from these three traditions what happens when somebody dies, what happens during death and after death. I would imagine there are bigger differences. So far. I know you're just dying to begin this one. Oh. You were referring to me? I don't know. As far as I know, I haven't died yet. But now I'm speaking as a Zen Buddhist.

[14:09]

And my commitment is to not teach or speak about, well, at least not teach anything that I haven't experienced myself. There are considerable teachings about how you are with someone when they die. How to sit with them. How to approach her, put your arms, hands on their body. How to bring your breathing into entrainment. with the persons. How to chant or say certain things under your breath or in your breath come down to versions of letting go.

[15:11]

Learning that approach, that approach is then understood as beginning at birth, not death. Don't wait till somebody is dying. Start this feeling as much as you can with everyone you meet from the time they're born. Now, I suppose somewhere in here in the atmosphere of this question there might be that I should say something about reincarnation.

[16:12]

Well, again, I... If I'm reincarnated, I don't know it. I've had some experiences which most people, when they hear them, translate them as reincarnation. No, and again, I'm now speaking from the point of view of the Zen school. Although this is true of all of Buddhism, it's emphasized in the Zen school. There's no teaching within Buddhism that depends on knowledge of or belief in reincarnation. Some sutras and commentaries comment about it or mention it, but the teaching itself doesn't depend on whether you believe it or not.

[17:29]

Now, there's a good reason although there are good reasons to say that reincarnation is, as we spoke this morning, a kind of collective divine image. In other words, to create a collective to create a teaching that, if you believe in it, that meets the needs of people, particularly Asian people, and the belief in it converts the population.

[18:37]

So I know a lot of pretty internationally known Buddhist teachers. And they will say if people around them believe in reincarnation, they won't deny it, but they don't exactly confirm it. The only Buddhist country and school which really has emphasized reincarnation is Tibet. Yeah. But I know that there are tulkus who are reincarnated other lamas. There's a movement among some young tulkus to say, hey, come on, let's get off this. And I've had people, when I've said publicly, I have no experience of reincarnation and nor did my teacher.

[20:01]

Call me just aside with a certain fierceness and say, you do not say that to people who don't already know that. But a lot of people do, a lot of Buddhist teachers do believe in it. Sukhiroshi used to say it makes them practice harder. And Suzuki Roshi said, then you practice more. And people want to believe in it. And if you do believe in it, then you really are open to accepting the rest of Buddhism without too much reservation. As far as I'm concerned, yes, there may be a reincarnation.

[21:10]

But it's in the category of this intermediate world or mystery that we exist in. But I don't think it should be incorporated into Buddhist teaching. Even if it were true, I would never incorporate it in Buddhist teaching. But if it's true, you know, I'll be amused to see what I come back as. Right now I'm happy with this moment. The next one I feel probably going to be okay too. Beyond that I'm scared to think. Of course it's possible.

[22:31]

But it sounds like you're asking that question from the point of view of wanting to believe in reincarnation. So I don't have that feeling. So I've never asked that question or been in the least bit curious. And if I did have such experiences, I'd keep it to myself. And not include it in Buddhist teaching. Okay. Well Richard really said all the essential elements that I would say.

[23:38]

As he said, at least according to my knowledge, I have not died. I have had some experience with people who have died. But they're my experiences. And there is a Sufi teaching on what happens after death. And I could give that, but it's not something that I would be giving from first-hand experience. And we do have a ceremony for the soul that passes on. Which many people find profoundly comforting. Both for the imagery that it conveys

[24:41]

of the dead person's journey, at least within this teaching. And also the kind of insight it offers for the person who has loved them. In the kind of Sufi teaching on life after death that I know, it is in the teaching about reincarnation. And essentially it's a journey where the soul leaves behind veils that it has gathered in incarnating. And also I have also had some powerful experiences that could be interpreted as the experience of past lives or reincarnations.

[26:03]

And also, like Richard, I must say quite honestly, it has never been a theme that has really interested me. And I don't mean that as a judgment toward people for whom it is meaningful. And I think it's because for me the experience is now. And I do know, for example, even in some psychological schools, shall we say, they work with the theme of reincarnation, and people seem to find meaning, at least in the interpretation of the experience.

[27:31]

And what I can just say personally is I find consistently two experiences around death. One is that I have found that usually in the death of someone there is a gift left for everyone that they deeply loved. And by that I don't mean a physical gift, I mean an inner gift. And the other is that in people that I have loved, I still love, who have died, there is something in the passing of death, at least for me, that makes me aware of the depth of the love.

[29:16]

I mean, life is so busy. we take for granted each other in a certain way. The reality of death for me usually is the confrontation with the profound impact of this person in my life and my love for them. Yes, and the second aspect is when someone dies whom I have loved very much or still love very much, that this going away, this dying, just makes me clear how deep this love is. And normally we are just so busy in our lives And I would just offer one more thing. This year, one of my mentors, one of my deepest mentors was operated on for a major illness. And the gift for me out of that experience was the reiteration of whatever happens to this person, they, I mean, inwardly, they will never die for me.

[30:27]

And that's not to negate the loss of their being in my life as a person, but the inner reality of who they are is so deeply in me that will transcend death. I mean, so I'm just trying to share my personal experience. And I don't want to deny that it is a heavy loss when you lose someone as a physical presence in life. But the inner presence of a person you love so much is so strong that in a certain sense he can never be gone. And this is just my personal experience that I can share with you here. I think that I can agree with both Richard and Atum that I don't think there is any belief that Judaism hinges on or that would affect most of our day-to-day life.

[32:34]

I mean I suppose you could say that about believing in God too. Somebody could be very observant of most of the day-to-day practices. And at the same time, there are a lot of teachings in Judaism about both the quality of life and this life, but also of additional life. And so, yes, we have a lot of teachings on reincarnation. And there are also many teachings about reincarnation.

[33:48]

It seems to be not well known somehow publicly or popularly, but there's a lot of teachings and stories and mappings of reincarnation. This is little known in general and is rarely taught, but we can already sense these teachings in the texts about reincarnation. I should perhaps take a step back first and say that in a sense, I mean, I come very much influenced by my Jungian upbringing. And Jung, but again, I think this would hold in, from a Jewish perspective, from everything I've learned. But if somebody said, oh, I had this experience that in a previous lifetime, you know, this and this and this happened.

[34:52]

So Jung wouldn't be interested in whether you could prove or not prove. He would only be interested in what is its meaning to you now. In the same way that he treated UFOs and aliens from other worlds and dimensions. He said, I don't care what you can prove to me somebody's come from some distant place. But it's significant that in the In the inner life of human beings, there is a recognition and a longing for that which comes from beyond their known world.

[36:19]

And when Jung in an interview back in the 1950s was asked, do you believe in life after death? He said, of course. Which flustered his interviewer quite. And Jung said, I have seen the dreams of thousands and thousands and thousands of people and before death there is no indication that anything is coming to an end. And Jung said, I have heard and experienced the dreams of thousands and thousands of people and before death there is no indication that anything will stop.

[37:24]

Now, the other thing I would say from within Judaism now, because as I said, we have teachings about reincarnation. We talk about the arising of the dead at some future time. We speak of God as he who takes life and gives life and gives new life to the dead, right? And gives life to the dead. So I mentioned yesterday this idea of tree of knowledge, tree of life. So part of us, this ego part of us, lives in this tree of knowledge, linear, sequential existence.

[38:32]

And so it thinks in past lives and this life and the next life. As most of us live with something carried over from yesterday and something to do today and something we're planning to do tomorrow. So from a tree of knowledge perspective, there is tremendous amounts taught and described about the past and the present and the future. And for some it's in terms of reincarnation. And for some it's in the form of heavenly realms where a person goes to depending on the quality of their life. Most would again say, well, I have no recollection of a previous life, and I haven't been there, so I don't know.

[40:07]

And we also have a very strong tradition of great teachers, rabbis, tzaddikim, who spoke of their previous lifetimes and of people who came to them for help and explanation of things happening in this life. who have spoken of past lives and that people have come to them who have helped them to clarify these things. And we have accounts, for instance, of the Baal Shem Tov, who in one of the few letters that we actually have that he wrote himself, that he describes his ascent to the heavens. and who he saw of previous people, souls, and so on and so forth in a very beautifully uplifting description.

[41:48]

And at the same time, from the tree of life, Instead of talking about the world to come as something that's coming after this world, it is a dimension of consciousness which we should strive to live in in this world. I mean tomorrow I'll go into this a little bit more, but the Sabbath for us though many count it as the seventh day of the week, in a linear experience of time and life.

[43:07]

And others recognize that the Sabbath always exists as that timeless dimension of time. And it can be accessed at any moment. Now in the present. So we have a wide range of beliefs, whatever you want. So we have a wide range of beliefs, whatever you want. And I'll just say as a closing thing, another issue that is learned about, spoken about a lot in Judaism, because there are accounts in the Torah, in the Bible, in various writings of angels appearing to people. Of beings from another dimension.

[44:12]

Or expressions of God of the infinite coming down into the finite world of the individual. And the traditional understanding is that each person, depending on their particular level of consciousness, will have the experience in a way that he or she can absorb it. But that it is a very objective experience in the personal. Now, that's just talking about the whole issue of, and yet, you know, and we have many, many, many teachings, as Richard was mentioning, too, in Atum, visiting the sick.

[45:32]

how you take care of the dying, how you treat the body after somebody has died, and then very importantly, how you treat the people who are related to that person and how you take care of them and visit them and And the two sides of what you need to do for the person who is sick and doing anything you can to help and comfort them is then transferred to those who are still alive who have lost a very close relative or whatever and how you visit them and the things you do for them and laws that take on the cycle from the time the person dies to the time they're buried to the first week cycle to the month cycle to the first yearly cycle and then to various things that mainly relate to the person again who is in mourning but also sorry

[46:34]

relate to the soul that has gone on. how we take care of them. And then, of course, a lot of attention is also given to how we treat the people who are in mourning, who have lost a person whom they loved very much. And the whole thing is very cyclical. So it goes from the moment of death to the funeral, then these weekly cycles up to a cycle of a year, where we simply give the support So our concern is more with life than with death. With the living than with the dead.

[47:38]

That our concern is more with the living in whatever state they're in than with the dead. Um... Yeah, but I'd like to add. I have a quick question. Okay, great. But how do you help the dying person actually? I mean, there are particular prayers that help a person let go. go of the life that they're holding on to? I mean, it's a very fine point because our commitment somehow is to relate to their potential for living.

[48:40]

I mean, so months before you say, oh, well, it's time to prepare to die and let's meditate on your dying and let's talk about... That isn't done so much. You... keep going on with the potential for living. I mean, when it is clear that death is coming, then there are prayers and practices that are done. Can I add a little something? The point of Buddhist practice is to end all reincarnations. If you accept the context of reincarnation, the point of practice is to not be reincarnated.

[49:54]

The only reason to be reincarnated is that you haven't lived fully enough to use up your karma. Or you're so compassionate and so needed that you decide to not enter nirvana, which means no more reincarnation. Or you come back to continue working and practicing in the world. But for a practitioner, there's also another reason why, at least from my point of view, reincarnation is, I don't know, I don't know.

[51:13]

Is what I find most essentially what I find most essential to being alive is not graspable. And without more time, I couldn't give you a feeling of what I mean by that. But let me just say we have outward consciousness, And an inward consciousness. An inward consciousness is like when we think private thoughts. Somebody asked little kids what was consciousness for. And very many of them said, so you can keep secrets.

[52:32]

But that inward consciousness, which is outwardly confirmed, is not, in Buddhist terms, interior consciousness. A true interior consciousness is not confirmed by outer consciousness or what happens in outer consciousness. That interior consciousness, which we call sometimes essence of mind, is always being continued or not. And so, for example, I have two daughters who everyone says are genetically very much like me.

[53:38]

They don't seem to mind too much. But They don't necessarily, however, continue what I mean by essence of mind. But because I'm so lucky that they trust me so much, I find that when I'm with them, I'm intuitively trying to pass essence of mind to them. Because it requires that kind of trust. And if I can continue this, what I know as essence of mind, through friends and disciples and my daughters,

[54:47]

To various degrees. Then actually I've done my job. And so this is better than dying. I have a question related to the wounded healer.

[55:53]

My question is, can I really heal other people if I'm still wounded? I don't think you can heal somebody else unless you're wounded. Ich glaube nicht, dass du jemanden heilen kannst, außer wenn du selbst verwundet bist. Aber du musst eine Einstellung erreicht haben, deinem Verwundetsein gegenüber, um darüber hinaus zu schauen, zu dem anderen hin. In some of the Jewish teachings, we have this idea that unless you have a broken heart, you can't see the brokenheartedness in others.

[57:23]

And unless you have a broken heart, you're considered to be like a slave, to be lost in an unconscious state of being. I would just add to it, is there would be very little healing in the world if only the unwounded could heal.

[58:27]

I mean, personally, I don't know anybody who's unwounded. And often it's in where we have been wounded and our journey with the wound As Carl Jung speaks up, often the wound is the opening through which the light comes in. So often what we have learned or gathered or how we've healed from our own wounding, let us say a potential meaning for that is the capacity compassionately to help another in that wounded journey. The shadow part where one has to be very careful is that one doesn't wound the other person out of the unconscious acting out of one's wound.

[59:30]

Or also the great split doesn't occur where I'm the healer and you're the wounded. So this is an archetype that interests me deeply and I feel one of the key pieces is each person has the healer part and the wounded part. And it's not that I as the healer heal you as the wounded, but I help to activate the healer archetype in you. I would just add to that, the Baal Shem Tov, the founder of the Hasidic movement, when somebody came to him for healing, he wouldn't pray for the person who was sick, wounded,

[61:14]

hat er dann nicht für den Menschen gebetet, der krank oder verwundet war, sondern er betete für Gottes göttliche Gegenwart. Denn er nahm jede Wunde innerhalb des menschlichen Wesens as a sign of some more universal pain that needs to be healed. And so he would pray for this more unitive dimension and the healing would come down for the individual. And so he prayed for this unifying dimension, or the unifying dimension, and thus the healing came down on the people.

[62:28]

Möchtet ihr eine Pause machen heute, oder? Vielleicht eine kurze Pause? Zehn Minuten? We agreed on ten minutes break. Also 20 nach 5 treffen wir uns wieder. But I want to put something out that maybe we can, or they can, or we can talk about. Because I found the questions a little bit too, OK, reincarnation again, and so on. So let's bring something new in. And I started speaking with Atum in the break about reincarnation and so on, you know, jump from one to the other. And what...

[64:09]

came strongly to me recently. We all, Richard, Atum, I don't know about David, we read a lot of newspapers. And there's a lot of new discoveries all the time. I don't know in the last year how many universes they have discovered and so on. And in combination with what Atum talked about this morning, creative imagination. So my question to you, my statement is, I've come to the feeling that, and it relates to the God question in the end, we think about God in the beginning. We think about God as this thing that's there, and we discover it. But I start having the feeling that maybe there isn't this this definite thing, but we are actually, by our longing, by our searching, creating something new.

[65:14]

And so I wanted to put that to you. He's giving you the microphone. All right. We live in a time where I don't know how many new stars and universes have been discovered within the last year and so on. And in connection with what Atum talked about this morning about creative... creative what in German? Imagination.

[66:17]

Creative imagination. Exactly. And also in connection with the first question about the image of God, or what is God, we often speak of God as this closed kind of thing, this... A certain entity. Yes, unity. And I slowly get the feeling that it is more so that we, through our search, through our desire for new things, Do I understand you want to create a new religion? Did I understand correctly that you want to create a new religion?

[67:26]

We already had enough problems with the old one. personal experience on my own journey. Was many times asking that question, do I want to create something new? Was the only other alternative going back to something old? Past lifetime So I have often asked myself this question, should I create something new or is the only alternative I have to return to something old, something from the past, something that comes from another life span or do I go into the future?

[68:43]

In a certain level it's saying, well, this is the body that has evolved over this time. Do I want to just redesign it at will? Or do I learn that within this ancient body there are all sorts of amazing things from an acupuncture system to a homeopathic system to energy bodies to psychic bodies that are here already? my debate with this with Reb Zalman was basically in a sense this he felt the need to step out of the discipline of the tradition to create a new paradigm shift.

[70:05]

Whereas what I've been trying to do, am doing, was to create the paradigm shift in the tradition. I don't know if that's speaking to your question. No, I mean it is on some level, but I'm talking about In a way, it's not related to a new tradition or a new this or a new that.

[71:08]

It's the process of, are we discovering something that is new for us, but it's there? Or are we creating? I may say something. You can translate it now. I can't already translate himself. So my question is not whether you should create a new religion or create something new, but rather the question is, like this one better um I feel called up to say something briefly as a Buddhist.

[72:14]

My home practice is really Buddhism. As a Buddhist, I do not go from a creator god, but rather that creation is something that is co-created, that was created together in a mutual condition. and that it is without beginning and without end. In this respect, the question is very easy for me to answer. Of course, we are in the midst of creating something new and have a part in this creation. And that certainly also our longing has an influence on this co-creation, because in the end this mind-body duality does not exist. So maybe this is a little too simple. I would just briefly like to say something as a Buddhist, since I don't believe in a creator God.

[73:16]

But everything that's around, including myself, is something at best co-created, or through interdependence, you know, it comes into existence. And this process for me is without a beginning and without an end. So doubtless or needless to say, why should this not continue? And if there's no body-mind duality, why shouldn't our longing and our search for something really interact with this co-creation and with this emerging of whatever is going to come? You definitely sound like a Buddhist. Do you agree? Doesn't that sound like they agree? I'm getting confused here. No. There's a couple of ways that come to me in terms of response to the question in very much actually in agreement with what you said.

[74:38]

If we take from the Jewish Christian tradition that we're made in the image of God, then for me, one of the hallmarks of that image is for us to be able to create. We have been made by a creative God. And on the first day, you may remember, I mentioned something from the teachings of Pasudanayak Khan in which he said, there arises a cry from humanity, a very deep cry out of the human condition. And that what he called the message comes as a response to the cry. But he described the message as essentially a life or a light, shall we say.

[76:00]

Yes, or a state. the rising of the state of consciousness, shall we say. But how that is given expression to in all the realms of life, how that new creation is embodied, expressed, is a huge act of creativity that I think arises out of human beings. And the capacity of the human being to imagine and to create. And even when I was speaking of Ibn Arabi's sense that there is within us a Lord of our being or a divine name that seeks to be realized.

[77:11]

I don't mean that in the sense of simply reproduced outwardly, but even if you take the metaphor of the divine seed, it unfolds and there's something in the process of unfoldment that is deeply creative. I'm sorry. I'm lost. No, that's fine. Why don't we just stop there? Let's see, maybe I can... No, I just... I'm sorry, Atum. I think that would be very boring. What do you think, Xavier?

[78:29]

Answer your own question. You will translate? Well, in accordance with one of my teachers, Richard, I would say, I don't know. But I suspect that we create all this stuff. But maybe I can use one example. When we do these weeks here, like inviting Richard, David and Atum and Joan. My idea was that having participated in so many inter-religious dialogues, well, that weren't dialogues, but monologues, where basically everyone comes and brings their thing and then goes back home.

[79:55]

where everybody comes and they do their thing and they go home, and that here something new happens. Because it's a meeting and a synergy. And I don't mean to mix up everything. We don't all want to be whatever. But I think There's something in all these traditions and all these ways that has a mirror image in the other ones. And by working with the other teachers, then it enriches my own practice. . So yes, to answer your question, I think we created.

[81:23]

The only thing I can think to say to this is I remember as a teenager I was basically, unfortunately or fortunately, I received almost no belief system from my family. That was obvious anyway. And I was always left with the question, what's going on? And why does anything exist at all? And it was clear to me I didn't have the personal resources. intelligence, et cetera, to figure this all out for myself.

[83:21]

And I also knew I didn't have character enough to respond to the sense of layered responsibility I felt. And I thought, I'd better find some help. So I studied a lot of different teachings. And a lot of literature. And it happens that Buddhism is the best teaching for me. At least the best I encountered and I was lucky enough to meet a teacher who was good for me. But then the question came from my independent-minded generation. Modern is good and old is primitive.

[84:29]

And that we're supposed to do it ourselves in this modern age. And I thought, I finally decided that a tree doesn't care whether it gets its water from a cloud or from a hose. So I thought if I can use the Dharma hose of the lineage, I'm happy to be watered from the past. So I feel that, like Ulrike said, there's nothing that is not changing and interpenetrating.

[85:32]

And that there's no way each of us isn't giving the whole thing our own bend or direction. And it behooves us to enter this fully. And I find that teaching, traditional teaching, enhances my experience all the time. So I have no idea whether it's new or old or anything. I'm just doing what I do. That's wonderful. So there's another session like this for Saturday morning, and I don't know if this would be helpful, but maybe we can collect a few themes before rather than asking the questions so that you could also prepare for it.

[87:27]

So one suggestion I would have, maybe in the support groups you could see what it is you would really like the three to comment on, to talk about, and then put that into a question or a comment. Maybe to join what Zaheer is saying, there's the idea of a second and third generation question. I think it's good to trust a question just as it appears to you. And just don't judge it. But if you hold that question and look at it more thoroughly or deeply, and you answer those parts of it you can yourself,

[88:48]

Often a second generation of that question comes up that's more inclusive and reaches deeper. And then sometimes there's a third generation of that question. When you get to the second or third or fourth generation, it forces its way out of I can't think anymore about do I want to ask this or not. So if the small groups spent 10 or 15 minutes, each of you, what question first comes to mind?

[89:46]

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