We've created some categories here we can talk about. You have containers or images that arise from moral consciousness in your culture. And then you have containers that arise from your own experience with no outside input. Now, in practice, you're trying to definitely get free of the borrowed consciousness images, but you're also trying to get free of the images that allow you to function a certain way. And we have to have these containers to function. And in fact, we could say Buddhism is a very big container that allows you, as I said before, to get free of containers. Now, the third form of mode of relating to the world, subject and object, is to see anything in a different time.

[01:19]

And that means to see things in relationship to a whole. So now, to see the treaty not as a generic category, But to see a tree, as some of you felt it on your walk, as a particular presence in a particular location. And when you see a tree, to have the feeling of the clouds that water it. And the people who take care of it. And its roots. Now, this is in some way, to really see things this way is one form of realization. But you didn't. still and should cultivate this way of seeing.

[03:08]

By keep reminding yourself of interdependence. Now, for example, right here again, using us in this room. Each of you are separate people. But you are also, of course, a child of parents and grandparents and so forth. And you are a child of your culture. And that's something that you can know and you can also feel how you're acting in a fabric of your story and your history and your relationships with others. And psychology, contemporary psychology, has tried to make that apparent to us.

[04:10]

But this sense of being interdependent is not just related to the past in your history, but is also related to this present moment in this room. And that realization is rooted in mindfulness practice. You practice limiting your definition to your activity. you practice limiting the definition of yourself to your activity. And this is as important as breathing practice. You've all heard it, but you have to keep doing it. So you really feel, am I Dick Baker? That's the borrowed consciousness.

[05:25]

Am I a Zen teacher? Sometimes, yeah, I function in a general way as a Zen teacher. But what am I right now, really? A lip-flattering unit. A lip-flattering unit. That's more basic. And when I start to walk, I'm a walking person. I'm not Zen teacher, I'm not Tim Baker, I'm a walking person. That kind of definition has to be underneath the other definition. So when I hand something to Ulrike, I'm not handing something to a Ulrike person, and Dick Baker disappears.

[06:27]

Now, of course, many of my friends wish Dick Baker would disappear. And from their point of view, he doesn't. But from my point of view, I feel completely engaged only in one thing, which is passing something to Ulrike. Okay. Now, this is a state of mind that doesn't come naturally. It's in fact a real state of mind, but we think of another surface than this. Okay, now, the fourth mode of being, or state of mind, is to see the absolute neatness of everything. And in that, we can say the whole here in the object circuit.

[07:54]

So this is acting rather different than seeing things interdependent. Somewhere between inter-independence. Can you translate that to German? But this uniqueness is to see things absolutely isolated and to feel everything appearing in that one thing. As if you saw the whole ocean in each wave. Now, these two states of mind or ways of viewing the world I'm involved with generalizations or ego.

[09:24]

They're a way of functioning. But you're giving everything its own independence. So I don't see, Peter, unfortunately you're sitting right in front of me. On this rock I establish my... It's not a big problem. You can translate that. When I look at Peter let's take from this point of view I have no feeling about whether I like you or I don't like you I'm in a kind of awe or kind of trance or trusting state There was a Zen master named Jifu who used to have a sign outside his door.

[10:39]

Beware of dog. This dog on the, this dog eats the upper part of you and the middle part of you and the lower part. So when monks came to see him, they'd come and he'd open the door, come out, and they'd say, watch out for the dog. And if they turned their head, he'd turn and go back in. When a monk came to visit him to ask to come in the temple, his first statement to them was, watch out for the dog. And if they turned their head, he just turned and went back into his house.

[11:44]

This is basically the same story as Harry Roberts in Bring Me Six Flowers. If they're in an absolute state of consciousness or immediate consciousness, I mean, it's like hearing the siren. The birds don't hear the siren. Das ist wie in einem Zustand von diesem unmittelbaren oder absoluten Bewusstsein zu sein. Die Vögel hören nicht die Sirenen. And also there's a truck. If I'm standing here and you're standing there and I'm looking at you and I say, watch out for the dog, there's also many other kinds of communication going on. Und wenn ich hier stehe und du da drüben, ich sage, pass auf den Hund auf, dann gibt es auch viele andere Arten von Kommunikationen, die passieren. My stomach is saying, stay there. But my words are saying something else. And if you listen to the words, you're not ready to practice. Now, these stories are very dramatic.

[13:03]

And probably if you read the story, if there were any diaries left of villagers who lived in Jitu's neighborhood, They would say he's the sweetest grandmotherly guy. He was always very nice. And probably, you know, with Robert's plot too. If somebody came and he said, bring me six flowers, And they went away and they came back with three in two weeks. Probably Robert Spott's feeling was, well, I'm going to be patient with this guy maybe next year, you know. Then he probably thought, yes, I'll probably have patience with this guy and maybe next time... You don't do this dramatic thing, OK, you're finished.

[14:09]

In fact, that's going on, but at the same time there's, well, she's not stupid, I was in the hotel room. I know this. Next week I'll have a new translator. You translate that one? You are actually planning a vacation. Now, this also is to not see things in this state of mind, it's also to not see things in terms of likes and dislikes and the use to you.

[15:10]

This stated line is to not see things in terms like this and the use, how it can be used by you. Okay. So what's the difference between these two groups? We actually are always involved in all four. Ego is one of the few things that spices life up. But the question is, again, where are you nourished? These are called grounded states of mind. Because they're grounded in the way the world actually is.

[16:14]

And they hence are nourished with roots into every situation and into the world. They're literally rooted in the whole. And these states of mind are rooted in your fearful ego. And this kind of, the way language classifies things into certain useful units It's fine, but there's no energy. It's very useful for conveying information. But again, it's not a place to live. And when you live in this place, you are always seeing yourself from outside, Because language is virtually entirely about shareable experience.

[17:54]

Now, poetry is the one main, obvious form of language, and koans too, that try to take language out of this category and root it here. That's fairly clear, I think. No. These two states of mind really are the glue that takes over your identity stream. Now, Vilan brought up yesterday about who's doing these things. The fact is, we do have a sense of identity. It doesn't have to be locked in the ego.

[18:58]

It can move to different parts of the body in different states of mind. In fact, as I said the other day, being itself has a kind of direction. We could say like waves, as the movement of waves is only possible because water keeps returning to stillness. And water didn't keep returning to stillness. It would just disperse through the atmosphere or through the space. And there's a tendency, the more we get out of these two states of mind, that these states of mind is a tendency to move toward emptiness. And being true to that movement toward emptiness is Buddha nature.

[20:16]

In that sense, your identity then is a kind of interdependently and uniquely related to everything. Now, I can finish this off. These first two are based on mental state positions. Because before you have mental stabilization, you tend to be drawn either into outer definition or at least ego definition for yourself.

[21:24]

He said quality of these states of mind partition consciousness and divide unconsciousness, consciousness, etc. So when you practice mindfulness and zazen, you are developing these states of mind. Until this is your habit, not this your habit. And I guarantee you, another form of realization is when you shift from here to here as your habit. And you think in terms of likes and dislikes if you want to, but it's not the initial horizon.

[22:28]

Someone, by the way, gave me six flowers at the beginning of the seminar that they'd drawn, six plants. One, two, make sure, six, three, four, five, six, so thank you very much. Now, the koan starts with as soon as a single mold of dust arises. This would be the beginning of the five skandhas. When anything appears and the mind and consciousness appear in response to the object. Okay, now this koan says, as soon as a single mote of dust arrives, it could say, as some koans do, the world appears. But this work koan says, as soon as the single mote arises, the whole earth is contained within the mote.

[24:02]

So, obviously, what is that pointing out? This statement. from this state of mind. So this koan, in terms of Buddhist culture, is emphasizing functioning from, because this koan is about action, responsive action. Functioning from this state of mind. That's why this is the Nirmanakaya Buddha. The responsiveness of this state of mind, where beginning and end are simultaneous, is the Buddha Land. So, to sum up again, what did we talk about?

[25:22]

We talked about mental stabilization. Now, that's not the same as samadhi. Samadhi is an experience which permits mental stabilization, but it's a particular experience. Mental stabilization is matured mind-body unity. And then we'll talk about inner health and maintenance of experience. And I think the most common The experience of that for people who practice is the sense that you have lost the boundaries of your body.

[26:33]

And that's often quite a nice experience. It can be scary, but if you keep wanting to say what I can tell here, it's scary. And from this feeling of mental stabilization and space, You can feel the interdependence of everything. And you can act within the uniqueness of everything. In these grounded states of mind. Which never shift. Ah. Now, as I said also, containers can be changed.

[27:45]

And removed. And changed. So that they can be more... Do you want to teach each of them? So that's really three points. So the containers can also be changed so that they can be easily removed. And there are now three points. So again, this experience of your hands disappearing or your body disappearing.

[28:55]

And Dogen talks about dropping mind and body. This is actually an experience of the Dharmakaya. Which means identity as space. Or the Dharma vehicle, Dharma body of the Buddha. Or your truth body. But it's your truth body. You may have some initial taste of this feeling of your no boundaries. And this is like Dharmakaya Buddha is flirting with you a little bit. You're sitting. He comes down or she comes down and gives you a little kiss. It's your sweet guy. Keep practicing. But before you know it, where did he go?

[30:02]

So this experience is rather nice and angelic. Now, but when you begin to be able to use the Dharmakaya as... An identity. Because the Buddha basically means an identity, a kind of identity. A Buddha identity. That's when your practice is such that the continuum that supports the image of the body is gone. Okay, so... As your practice matures, more and more this experience of having no boundaries to your body is immediate every time you sit down.

[31:36]

And you basically feel yourself generally located in a kind of space around yourself. That includes yourself. Now, that's why, that's one reason why the full moon is a symbol of enlightenment. And the full moon or the circle is a symbol of the Buddha body. And some people talk this way, making a circle in front of their students. And this is the halo of the Christ videos and so forth. Because sometimes you can actually see this nimbus around the person.

[32:56]

So this is a fact of spiritual life, not particularly Christian or Buddhist. Now, Buddhism doesn't understand these things exactly as grace or exactly as a religious experience, but more as a realisational and craft experience. Because when you... get to the point that you can rest in these states of mind through mental stabilization. And then through mental stabilization, you can establish yourself outside the continuum of images. The containers that shape our feelings and when you can take those containers away and with a kind of subtlety that doesn't jiggle you can rest in this space continuum.

[34:14]

We could say he realized the Dharmakaya body. At least in an initial way. And that's realized by not just some kind of good luck, but practicing in such a way that the continuum that supports the images dissolves. Now, I've used the word leak quite a bit. But after sashin, when you talk about it, you leak. Or bodhisattva activity is a bodhisattva is one who leaks, is willing to be in the weeds. And in this koan is presented as being in the red dust. But what it has here is the Sambhogakaya body, which is represented here by the 16-foot tall golden body,

[35:41]

And here, however, the Sambhogakaya body is presented by this figure, which is 16 feet tall, which leads us into the dust. And in this choir, the Sambhogakaya itself goes into the weeds and brings us into the weeds. Now, I also want you to use the word deteriorate. Do you know the word deteriorate? Yeah. Is that when your state of mind is in these categories, and you go into these categories sometimes, you can feel your state of mind deteriorate. dann spürt ihr, wie euer Geisteszustand zerfällt oder abbaut. Und der wirkliche Trick ist, könnt ihr jetzt hierhin gehen, ohne dass euer Geisteszustand zerfällt.

[36:52]

Und so lernt ihr, wenn er zerfällt und wann nicht. By deteriorate, you can feel the intactness of your mind breaking up. And when it starts to break up, it becomes open to anxieties, images, et cetera. In fact, I think David's referring to that when you're used to this state of mind, you learn to protect yourself. When you go to this state of mind, and you go back and you lose the same ability to protect yourself. Practice makes you weaker.

[38:02]

Miscat. So you then have to develop your strength here, or as soon as you're in this state of mind, you're very vulnerable to negative impulses. And that's one reason we have monastic life. It's a way to protect you while you're integrating yourself within you. But also, or you need some kind of really quite strong regular practice. Okay, so just that, that, and then we also talked about immediate practice. secondary and borrowed consciousness.

[39:24]

And I think these are sufficient tools, equipment, for studying this koan. Thank you for translating. You're welcome. Now what time, Gertz, do you want us to help with lunch? Between, from now sometime? Yes. Okay. Should we stop right now or in five minutes? Five minutes. Okay. So let's sit for a few minutes. questions about this equipment.

[40:28]

I already know Gertz did so. Je weiter ich mich in die Welt 4 begebe, sprechen immer schwerer, immer unglücklicher wird, also dass ich den Bereich gerade eigentlich nur in Werbung besprechen könnte, gehen, trinken, stehen und im Moment 4 eigentlich nur Androhungen stattfinden. Das sprechen wir gar nicht mehr mit, was im verständlichen Sinne denkbar ist. The more I deal with these distinctions, I realize that language is almost impossible in category four. And that in three, maybe the only thing I could use is verbs like walking, feeling, seeing, and so forth.

[41:29]

And in four, it's just simply actions that are possible, not on the level of language anymore. Yes, but language can be action. But language can also be action. So the Buddha says, ah, a good point, place for a sanctuary. So he picks up a blade of grass, established. He could have just said established. So what this is at that moment is the subject and object are one. It's not about, yes, now we're going to, a monastery is going to be built. It's much, you know, Suzuki Roshi and I looked at Tassajara.

[42:31]

And he was, as I've told you the story sometimes, he was clearly excited seeing this land. And I'd almost never seen him excited. He was always, you know, in a good mood and smiling, but you wouldn't call him excited. But this time as we were leaving, he was jumping out of the car and running along beside the car and stuff. You know, and coming from Japan where there's no empty land, see, to get a place where there were 350,000 acres of emptiness... 350,000 of emptiness. This is like ancient China suddenly. So I said to him, well, shall we get it? Since we had a yearly budget of, for the first time that year, we'd gotten up to $6,000 to support him and everything else.

[44:03]

He didn't ask, he said, well, could we do it? I mean, something like that. I said, I didn't ask whether we could, I said, do you want to? And he said, yes. And I said, done. It actually took ten years, but you know. But our state of mind was joined. and joined it, this absolutely unique... So the point is, you can act in this world, but there's a certain kind of action, but it has very powerful effects.

[45:06]

Again, it doesn't mean you always act that way. Although it's in the background of your acting. But you know when to act that way and when not to. And you can distinguish, as we say, dragons and snakes. Someone who hasn't said anything so far? Or said little? Those people never say anything anyway, who don't say anything. Yes, oh, one of them. Yes. Yes. I was thinking about the relationship between the three consciousnesses, immediate, borrowed, and secondary, and those four modes of being, especially the third interdependent.

[46:13]

Because for me it seems that to see the interdependence of things, I need borrowed and secondary consciousness. True. You need borrowed... Do you want to say that in German? Of course, these are modes of thinking being And they're all available to us. The real question is where you live. And where the adhesiveness is. Which one are you drawn into? Now, all of Buddhism has a tremendous intellectual philosophical framework that supports it. That to some extent is studied through borrowed consciousness.

[47:30]

When I gave you a brief history of koan study in China, this is borrowed consciousness. So when you establish the fact of interdependence, You establish it partly because you know about ecology and so forth. Then you also establish it through secondary consciousness by noticing things. But you realize it when you feel the interdependence. Like I feel the relationship between us. I don't think about it. and it's not borrowed information.

[48:48]

And when I feel that subject-object merging with anything, or between two people, this is... When I feel an act within that, it's an immediate consciousness. So we can distinguish between how we arrive at a point and how we realize a point. So this sense of immediate consciousness, this koan emphasizes immediate consciousness as shared with the world and with others, and the ability to responsively act within that. And that responsive acting is immediate, not because it's immediate, but because it's without thinking.

[50:10]

Now, one of the things I haven't mentioned here, because I presented this in a rather cold way, Yeah, or mechanical way. But to actually realize shared immediate consciousness is by necessity based on compassion and trust. So it only works when there's compassion. It only works when you can feel another person like yourself. Or you can allow each thing, each object, each person It's absolute own independence.

[51:15]

And that's a kind of compassion or gift. Does that more or less make sense? So it means, one could make a distinction between two states of integral consciousness, one approaching and one... Yeah, realizing it, yes. Yeah, exactly. And when you describe it, you're immediately in secondary consciousness. That's why they often say in koans, he falls into the secondary. In other words, he's no longer presenting it through a metalogic, we could say, immediate consciousness.

[52:18]

But he's falling into secondary consciousness. And sometimes that's like falling in love. And sometimes it's like falling and deteriorating. So one of the teachings in our lineage is three kinds of, four kinds of falls. So the question is how you fall. But I'm definitely falling into the secondary all the time. And sometimes I barely can climb out, you know. Yeah. That's what's meant by rolling in the grass. Yeah, in the weeds, in the grass, in the dust, in the marketplace, working at an ordinary job, doctoring.

[53:24]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In which way can we describe certain emotions like anger and so forth as container for experiences? Just as you just did. But I think when you see anger as a container for experience... you're already, by implication, feeling you don't have to have only that container. And there are practices involved with a person who you're angry with seeing if you can change the container, trying different containers on the same person.

[54:33]

Again, the emphasis is not to get rid of the anger, but to have a more complex feeling toward the person. This is really, as I've said other times, this is in the end all about friendship. How you can be friends with the person who is your enemy. How you can have the friendship of practicing with others. How you can have the friendship of mentorship. How you can have a friendship in immediate consciousness.

[55:34]

I think, can I say something about what you said to me? Can I say something about what you talked to me about? Just a little. No, she can say it. You can say it. All right. So she's a school teacher. And she spoke to me that when she teaches in school, mostly she has to teach and the students learn in borrowed consciousness. Although of course even in our school systems real learning occurs in secondary consciousness. But she's immediately hearing these teachings but wondered how can she bring immediate consciousness into her teaching. In the most fundamental sense, this is a koan.

[56:57]

And you can just present this, have the feeling of wanting to do it, and maybe it will happen. If you feel it deeply enough, something will happen outside your ordinary consciousness. But you can also do, as you suggested, some practical things. And she said maybe she could start out with a few minutes of silence. Of course, you know, the problem here is that you... Immediate consciousness, using the terms we've developed in this seminar, can be communicated rather osmotically to others. But for the most part, people won't notice it unless they already have had an experience of immediate consciousness.

[58:11]

That's one reason lectures can be different in a session than in a seminar. So if you've had some through meditation experience of immediate consciousness, you're much more likely to feel it in another person. And if you have no experience of it, and you feel it in another person, your reaction may be not to trust them. Because they seem put together differently than you. Your reaction may be to fear them. Or your reaction may be to fall in love with them. Because these koans, really, they're called public cases. But it's really the intimacy of the transmission between two people made public.

[59:29]

So, obviously in a gymnasium you're not going to get everybody to practice meditation. If you do, I will announce that you are the new Buddha for the Western age. Which I would be very happy to announce. And also, even getting them to be still or something for a minute or two or a while in the beginning is probably difficult. I suggested she disguise the stillness. So then the way she comes in the room, puts her books down. And the pace. And then a certain point with a certain stillness in the room where people have felt your process. You wait till the silence is asking you to start.

[60:42]

Even though the silence is disguised in a certain amount of activity. But I like it. She's ready to go. She's establishing a sanctuary without hesitation. And it's their first seminar, man. Okay. Someone else? It's speak or meditate. Well, yes. Yes. For me, the question is this stage or this immediate consciousness, is it something that is there, that I have to discover, or is it something that I have to build up?

[62:13]

In earlier seminars you talked about the teaching or transmission from mind to mind. And now I'm wondering whether this fourth stage of consciousness or immediate consciousness, is it something that's already there, a kind of disguised way, that I only need to discover, or is it something I have to gradually build up? It's already there. Is it bereits da? You also have to discover it. but you don't have to build it up exactly but you can become familiar with living there having it sort of home based but you do develop it by shifting your continuum So even you can feel the bump, as I say, when you go over from immediate to secondary to borrowed, there are little bumps.

[63:40]

Now, when you're beginning to practice, you go from, as Ulrike pointed out the other day, when you're beginning to practice, you go from borrowed uphill to secondary. And then you go uphill, up a bump to immediate. And almost immediately you slide back down. But if you have some enlightenment, then the bumps go the other way. Particularly in initial stages of realization, it's an effort to go into secondary and borrowed consciousness. You keep wanting to slide back down into immediate consciousness. And if you stay there, we call it Zen sickness. You're attached to quietism.

[64:45]

But for a really realized person, it's one thing. Just back and forth. For some reason, we are lucky that sometimes this just happens to us. Yeah. Okay. Question. For those who have practiced maybe a while... There comes a point where I feel it becomes extremely hard. When one practices for a while, I feel there's a stage where it becomes increasingly hard. Because you start to feel the interconnection, relationship between everything.

[65:49]

And you not only pick up that in a positive sense, you pick it up in a negative sense. So you pick up other people's processes, problems, everything. And then it becomes increasingly difficult to find any sentence. Is there a way to seal oneself or to be present in it without feeling overwhelmed? Well, practically speaking, you can seal yourself in your breath. More in immediate consciousness. But... Basically, if you're in the midst of practice and having these feelings, there's one answer.

[67:05]

Don't wobble. Yeah. These choirs, this one and also the first choir that we treated, also have a lot of pictures. So people who act and these pictures speak to me intuitively. It is also very nice to understand what is going on in their behavior. to get a degree or to work. But I notice that I have such fantasies to play such pictures, so really to act. Has something like this ever been done before? I did a two-year psychotherapy training and then I played everything possible, all kinds of situations, feelings, dreams, you can play everything.

[68:08]

My question is whether something like this is possible or whether something like this has ever been done. When I read these koans I find a lot of images I really like and these images in an intuitive way talk to me. So I'm on one hand also grateful and interested in the background you explain about these images but on the other hand I feel that I would like to act out or just play these images. My question is has that ever been done? And I studied psychodrama for two years and I'm just wondering whether it has been worked with koans in this way? You mean to actually make a theater piece from it? Yes, kind of. Yeah, a friend of mine, Peter Coyote, an actor, was a student of mine for a while, sometime. He actually planned to dramatize some of these koans and

[69:10]

I think it can be done. I don't know if it's ever been done. In a certain way, you can say no plays in Japan are based on a kind of Koan way of thinking. But for most of us, I think, practically speaking, not being actors or theater people, one level of practicing with these koans is to make these stories your story and to feel yourself acting within them and through them. So you're establishing a sanctuary. When you're working with this koan, every place you go, you're establishing a sanctuary.

[70:15]

Last night, having dinner, Rika put down a glass and said, sanctuary established. You know, it's the first time a glass of beer has been used to establish a sanctuary. But it was very good. You have to keep doing these things. Can I see, respond to that? Please. Yes, I recently worked with a group of people, with another therapist, and we also used a choir. And it was an incredibly beautiful experience for me to see how this choir was played spontaneously. in a therapeutic process, without it being explicitly assigned to the task. And that was an experience for me, how a koan begins to play in the people who deal with it.

[71:18]

And in such a therapeutic context, of course, there was much more permission for it than in such a Zen context, where everyone is very busy, to really go around the koan in a Zen way. You're talking about the work you did with Klaus? I said in this therapy group there was more permission to play and act that koan out and to become the koan more than in a Zen context where people are sort of concerned what is the right Zen way to deal with the koan. We're being criticized. Did you hear that? We should be more playful. It's true. It's nice working with a group of people who have done a lot of work on themselves. Because they're much more vulnerable and open with each other. And they're willing to hear things. And one thing about this tawn is the ability, the courage to act with consequence. Yeah, to not act safely, to always act knowing the danger of acting.

[72:35]

Shall we sit for a little bit before lunch? That would be very nice. Okay. I really only think I have one thing to say and then the rest of the afternoon is up to you or to whatever discussion we want to have. Hmm. This weekend, because of this koan, I've given you pretty developed teachings.

[74:16]

You really don't need to know much more than this. Or rather, if you understand any one teaching of Buddhism, how it's simultaneously a beginning teaching and an advanced teaching, you don't need to know much else. If you know a lot of teachings, a little, it's not much help. It may give you a certain perspective and feeling for Buddhism, which is good. But from the point of view of practice, it's best to practice one teaching or one area of teachings thoroughly. By thoroughly, I mean it could be your lifetime, it could be one or two years.

[75:18]

In this sense, you do have to make a decision too. You're not just following kind of aimlessly uncorrected mind. You know enough at a certain point to decide or to let something decide for you. That a particular teaching, a particular question in a koan is going to be the pivot for your practice. Now, the one thing I wanted to add here is that And this is a pretty simple, actually commonplace idea.

[76:44]

But to fully realize it is a fully realized practice. And to really move from here to here takes tremendous energy. And the basic motivation is wisdom. The movement toward emptiness. And the basic movement of the companion is compassion. Because It really takes the energy of doing this for everyone to make this kind of movement in your life. So this feeling of friendliness, let's just put it as friendliness, the possibility of being deeply friendly with everyone helps move you in this direction.

[77:50]

Now this state of mind is most, if we could say, fully developed is compassion. And this is wisdom. And so these two kind of fold back and forth in and out of each other. When you're emphasizing, let's say, feeling immediate consciousness as a presence between two people Presence between you and an object. And you notice in this koan, it's all presented as a mutual expression between the Buddha and Indra and so forth. That feeling very easily turns toward a sense of the interdependence of everything and also to the uniqueness and emptiness.

[79:06]

So we can also say this feeling as compassion also can be re-expressed here. And this one, if we call emptiness down here, this folds into emptiness. And this folds into interaction with everyone. And the koan talks about this territory from this point of view. I just want to show you how wisdom and compassion fall in and out of each other here at this point. Now, what I'd like to, first of all, just ask if anyone has any questions.

[80:18]

Or anything you think it would be helpful for all of us to discuss. Yes. I've asked you yesterday whether you could say something about Shikantaza and you said I should bring it up. Well, I don't think it's kind of like directly related to what you have been talking, but maybe... No, no. Shikantasa is sometimes by some teachers understood as a state of mind based on samadhi. That it's a very particular state of mind. We could say it's a form of mental stabilization in which you rest.

[81:28]

That's not untrue. But really, when it's translated as just sitting, It really means in the larger sense, not a particular state of mind, but an attitude toward your practice, which I call uncorrected mind, in which you do just sit. In a state of mind that through practice deepens and changes, But a state of mind which you don't force or edit. Then that's one of the things that makes Shikantaza or uncorrected mind a very difficult practice.

[82:34]

Because very little form is given to it. But it's the basic, I mean in a way you could say it's the most basic of all the practices. But I think it really requires, for Shikantaza to develop, it requires an intimate relationship with a teacher. Aber damit sich Shikantasa entwickeln kann, ist eine intime Beziehung zu einem Lehrer erforderlich. So I'm basically teaching you Shikantasa with a lot of teachings and practices and mindfulness practices to support the practice. Dabei lehre ich gleichzeitig eine Menge Übungen und Achtsamkeitsübungen und gebe auch einige Lehren, um diese Praxis zu unterstützen.

[83:38]

So if you really practice Shikantaza with a teacher, nothing happens. There are very little teachings given. I mean, when you listen, and usually teachings are given from the teacher's mouth. But also through or from the teacher's voice. But also through the teacher's voice. And also under the teacher's voice. So she can tell us that really you spend time with the teacher until you learn to receive the teachings under the teacher's voice. But when you learn to hear in that way, you can begin to hear your teacher's voice or teaching under every teacher's voice. And everything begins to teach you. So, anyway... So shikantaza is the most formless.

[85:09]

At the same time, it then needs the support of some contact with a teacher in a sangha, I think. A kind of presence of a practicing situation. The presence of a situation in which one practices.

[85:33]

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