Well, Father, it may be permitted, I hope, to begin a talk about ecumenism with a quotation out of your Holy Rule, Let nothing be put before the work of God. And we can ask ourselves whether the present situation of Christendom and Christianity influences the opus Now it may be we can, as to my humble opinion, we can't, but consider the Opus Dei as answer, as answer to God's acting, to God's calling, God's acting in history, the Opus Dei you bring to God.

[01:04]

You do it for all men. And you do it as an indication of the bad situation of Christianity in a partial way. The Opus Dei is influenced by the dividedness of Christendom. This is a blot of the praise we bring to God. Even the highest thing we can do, the celebration of the Eucharist, is not perfect in a certain way because there are some who cannot receive. We see that even our holiest acts create controversies. And it would be too cheap to say, you see, the gospel will always create scandal. But we see that because we see that there's not so much a refuse of the gospel, then the faithfulness to the calling, or to calling upon Jesus Christ,

[02:21]

that this controversy is there. The people who, like you, like we, put their trust in Jesus Christ, who can participate in our holiest acts, who make that our Opus Dei is a partial thing, that the purity of our praise that lacks a thing because others do not join. God is not waiting for a praise of some people. God is waiting and has from His side done all that all men would sing His praises without ever ceasing. Now those men who do not join who feel like faced with a controversial thing yet they confess to one holy catholic apostolic church some people will say you see this oneness is because we are all one in christ christ brings us together we are all being baptized into him and so let's not bother too much about those things

[03:51]

in spirit we are one the people forget that the manager is not a spirit and the gospel has been preached to spirits and the salvation has been brought to a spirit the two men our Lord has not become a ghost he has become a man and even after the resurrection when people when his followers and his servants could not believe it was really there give me something to eat spiritual things do hardly not exist within Christianity it's always a matter of the whole man and now a kind of spiritual unity what kind of unity would this be that is so weak that it can't inscribe itself in the acts of our life in form the whole life of christians who bear the name of him in whom they really are one some others would say oh you see the oneness there's a meschatological matter in the parousia when our lord comes back then all the church will be one and perfect sure and so perfect in oneness too but they forget that our lord is speaking about oneness

[05:19]

says that they may all be one he praises in his high priestly prayer so that the world may believe now the world will not believe the world will see the age of believe is the age before the coming back of the Lord and there the world should see so that it may believe the world believes only what it sees a meschatological unity unity in the eschaton at the parousia when the Lord comes back no it is a matter of today visible organic not federation not collaboration or there are very beautiful humble steps but humble steps toward the coming visible organic unity of a body with members jointly knit together where the one is member of the other and where they cannot be divided because Christ can't be divided as Saint Paul says and although Christ can't be divided we are divided today and therefore our situation can be called can't be called but sinful

[06:44]

It's important in the sense that it is a barrier between the world and our law. We are not one. Sometimes we give ourselves a lot of trouble to make clear we are not one. We shouldn't be identified with those people. We are Protestant. We shouldn't be identified with non-Catholics. That's organizing. We are all Catholic. We are Catholic. You shouldn't be identified with Episcopalians. Well, you are. I mean, let's see your throne. Et cetera, et cetera, and so forth and so on. For faithfulness to Jesus Christ, we are afraid to be identified with other people. Is it a barrier between the world and Christ? Our brothers in Africa heard about a tribe in Togo, which has been Christianized 30 years ago.

[07:49]

The whole tribe became Christian. 20 years ago, other missionaries came. I don't know whether the first were Catholics and the second Protestants, or just in their opinion. What happened to both reactions? The second missionary said the first ones, they were wrong. And the chief of the tribe said, the first ones, they were sincere, and they loved our Lord very, very much. The second ones made me press you to be sincere too, and to love our Lord very much. And yet this one says that the other is wrong. If it is this way about Christianity, let's become heathen again. Then we know, we know things, things are like the ghost and what not, you see. Today, we aren't Christian anymore. It happens in our civilized countries too, I think.

[08:50]

And how sinful the situation is, is shown by the fact that we even do not know how to convert. You do a sin, in a sinful state, and yet the only thing you have to do is to turn around. It may be difficult, very difficult, it may take time, all is true, but you know, you have to turn around to do it. Now as to this sin of dividedness, we don't know how, for the very reason that we are in it is because we want to be good Christians and faithful to Jesus Christ. So the only attitude we can have is an attitude of humility. And we should pray not to fall into the temptation of being like the Pharisee, saying, O Lord, I thank thee. So far, all is fine. I thank thee to be a Catholic.

[09:54]

It's good. To be a Reformed man. It's good. To be a Lutheran. It's good. For we became Christians. We received our Lord through those churches. Never forget that. Never forget who baptised you. But the temptation is, O Lord, I think that I am a Catholic. And not like those. They were reformed, man. And not like those Catholics. Temptation. Temptation of using the gifts of the Lord for destroying other people the devil saying to us take it into your hands you can make something out of it you can make something out of it for the glory of God only take it make yourself independent dear as he said to Eve and to Adam as he said through history all the time he knows how to how to fetch us

[10:59]

Take the gifts of the Lord serious, which are there for you, take them, forget about your dependence. I thank Thee that we are all Catholic, I thank Thee that I am reformed, yes, surely, but not I thank Thee that I am not like those ones. There is more implication. Now, as to a sinful situation, that is the means of prayer. And now, as a Protestant man, you'll have thought maybe those Protestants, they speak so much about priesthood of all believers. Now, that is true, only today they may understand a little bit what it means. And as to prayer, as to priests being an agent between God and man, and man and God, And Saint Peter, speaking about we Christians being a royal priesthood, should something not forget.

[12:04]

Now he said prayer is just not a thing of having certain intentions in mind, because you should have some. We should pray, and our prayer has only sense because our Lord Himself prays. Our prayer has sense because he has held the church as the bride to the bridegroom, as the bridegroom to the bride. He has our eternal advocate prays now for us. And when we may pray, we do this as priests, because there is this priesthood of all believers. Excuse me for being so absent at this moment. But that means that all may offer themselves in sacrifice. you may offer yourself in sacrifice and you know that your sacrifice is accepted by Jesus Christ by our Lord you may offer yourself in sacrifice and you are accepted so that you may not live anymore to yourself but to the Lord that's your prayer

[13:20]

You're a royal priesthood, and deliver from all bondage. You are only Servus Christi. It's the only bondage you have. So you may pray. We join the high priest in his prayer that they may all be one. And St. John, describes our Lord in glory now in his revelation he doesn't describe our Lord standing there very proud of the church he describes our Lord as the Lamb of God that is standing there as if it had been slain that's the position of our Lord in glory That's how He prays for us. That's the prayer in which we are allowed to join the prayer forest church, pray for Christianity, pray for all good-willing people who want to be faithful to Jesus Christ and to be as faithful as they can.

[14:40]

Not only prayer, we are allowed to love No apostle, and our Lord in the least, has said, you shall pray for everyone excepted for those people, or you shall love everyone excepted for certain kind of people. He said, see, the world will see that you are my disciples if you have love for each other. And just if you remember, it shows us that love is not so much a personal virtue as the 19th century has tried to teach us. Surely love has implications as to the faithful individually, but love is more. Love has a function as to the life of the church. Love is a thing you have to receive, you have to pray for, but I will receive because I live in the church, I have been baptized, I receive our Lord, and I will receive love, and I will be able to give it, because it comes from Him, and I will not give it as a kind of personal, virtual, personal gift, and only involve

[16:07]

in the light of the Church in this age, and in the ministry of Jesus Christ Himself. That's love. And we should forget, secondly, that when St. Paul speaks about faith, hope, and love, he didn't do it that some painters, again in the 19th century, may make some very beautiful paintings of some young ladies, that went in this way, and that's done whole faith, and that's hope, more than just a way of looking upon things faith, hope and love has to do with he was the Christian I am and you are who walks within the church and through history taught the prusia of our Lord and Saint Paul says faith, hope and love but love has privacy Not that faith and hope are not important, but love is just more than having some kind of nice feelings, as on this picture of Miss Love in the 19th century's tradition.

[17:21]

Love as to a sacrifice, again, Christian life, Eucharistic life, it can't be else – a Eucharist lived by a Christian, thanksgiving, offering, offering to God. And love, we know all what St Paul says about love, praying in the 13th, this whole, all these features, all these sites of what love means within the Church. and we are not forbidden to love. We are even not forbidden to love people who confess Jesus Christ. Prayer, love, dialogue. After what we have heard at table from Mr. McAfee Brown about dialogue, I don't want to say much about it, only this may be

[18:32]

first that sometimes God our Lord the Holy Ghost helped a lot to come just into dialogue by raising up within the church people who by their very life and sometimes by their work question The dialogue begins more by being questioned than by wanting to tell. The dialogue is more a matter of listening than it may be. The saints, for instance, are not only saints, also some doctors of the church, and also some doctors which are not recognized as doctors yet. And now, as a Dutchman, I know rather well the church life in Holland, And we know, for instance, the enormous role which has been played in Holland, in Catholic, and especially in the Protestant Church, by Odo Castle.

[19:46]

Odo Castle, this monk of Maria Laach, who has had an extremely fruitful life, a life which didn't seem to have been very easy, especially later on. And that's the thing we find more. Another man who questioned very much is, for instance, today, Father Congar, Dominican. Give all to St. Benedict. And I would say the same thing. Should we, now we, I think now you as monks, all of members of this celibate family, this magnificent family, should we not say, oh, as you see, there are people who are really, who tend to be a little bit dangerous. Now, as to the danger... We are not there for writing about that.

[20:51]

We have the abbots, superiors, the bishops, and they know that. What we see is that God gives gifts within the church who question. Gifts which put questions to people within the church and outside, outside the special church to which we belong. And sometimes the ears move because of being questioned by people of your own church. In the moment, these men who question remain faithful and the good ones remain and take some difficult years they have to live and the good ones do not the good ones who do not the good ones do there's an example about an archbishop I don't know if it was Fénélon or Sué one of these two who was one day who had written a book which was condemned

[22:06]

It can happen. It can happen. It can happen. For some reason, Esther is a pastor all the time. You know, it may be. And this... Now, let's say it this way, you know. It was very... It was very said about and sure... But the people who saw him were very impressed because he was not more sad. He said, I am the pastor of the flock. Should I not give the example? In a moment, if the flock would be sometimes a little bit... There is some boldness involved as to the flock and that would be dangerous. I give the example of accepting, joyfully accepting. now there is a lot of job accepting too accepting may be sometimes a bit difficult it doesn't mean it is not fruitful speaking about ecumenics and forgetting about the unity of the church forgetting about the unity of the ministry the unity of diocese and parish it's impossible

[23:32]

begins there. Caritas and veritas in a chemical relationship have to do with this too. And there is no truth without charity. Truth without charity is no truth. No truth as to the Church, as to Christ. And secondly, veritas is never an intellectual category. As we are totally informed. But veritas is nothing to do with character. Veritas is a category of life which is a life hidden in Christ. Jesus Christ is veritas. And electoral categories, which is you have to work thinking people, are nothing else but features all the truths he knew and he will give us the whole mystery of baptism this life hidden in Christ having been baptized into Christ to his death and into his resurrection leading not only on the realm of creation but on the realm of redemption too and not being able to rub it off

[25:02]

neither as to yourself nor as to others. And the more grateful that they are as to myself, I can't remember at all, the more I will be grateful for other people too. That's right. I forget about it. And in the moment I almost forget that they have been baptised too. I have to ask myself, yes, but do I forget about my own baptism too? I always see Baptism, and not so much the key or me. Baptism, the fountain of grace. Now, some dangers. We could never forget about the Church, our obedience, our love and our thankfulness. We can't speak about unity and forget about unity at home, in the monastery, in the diocese, in the parish, to be hypocrisy, to be hypocrisy to speak about unity of all Christians and not being a firmament of unity there where you live.

[26:29]

Now, we find within the church very good-willing people who are so impressed by the heritage of the church, patrimoine, I don't know what it's called, patrimoine, the patrimoine, the deposit of faith, I think the church has. We have to carry this through history. And there are many, many people in the world who carry this. They go all the time. Everything hurts because of the patrimony, the deposit of the church. I don't want to make these people ridiculous because their concern is very true. I only want to make clear this integralist attitude which is sometimes very difficult as ecumenical nations.

[27:38]

Other people know very well about the Evangelical Church too. but have so much attention, people. Like this, huh? And the pattern one gets... Now, that's not the way to do it either. Without a proper sense... we're progressionists only names, we should be very careful with those names and only take them as a, how to say, as a point as a figure, as a type of an attitude the attitude which looks too much to outside and forgets the inside we have the reunionists Now, first, we have them everywhere. It's not only the Catholics who say, come back today.

[28:43]

I'm a member of the Reform Church in the Netherlands. There are a lot of other groups who have left this church in the last century, for instance. Now, when I, as a man, as my old Adam, think about those churches, Don't come back. The reason for yourself, come. Isn't anyone there? So, where are they waiting for? So, I'm only saying, when I speak about reunionists, you don't only find them in the Catholic Church, you find them everywhere. And these people, this attitude is, forgets a little bit that the claims our Lord that what he is asking us for is just a little bit more than we have realized already that we are not yet the church triumph that we have still some way to make all not because that the church will not be holy or apostolic or Catholic but it is that all

[30:00]

But we, because Church is made up of the Societas Fidelium and those faithful people, that we and the others, we have to live those very things. And therefore, now saying all things are fine now today, and the only thing you have to do is to come back, that's not the attitude. Because those people, they have. It would be very simple if they did. It would be very simple. Everybody can cancel it, but everybody can reform. It would be so simple. But the good-willing, the serious people, they do, they'll do it because of faith in Jesus Christ. And we should not forget that. And we should not be less patient than God is patient See, the union is a collective form of proselytism, of running around and looking where somebody is a little bit weak.

[31:08]

Another one. It has nothing to do with meeting the spiritual need of somebody exerting pastoral ministry of the church. The proselytism is walking around and seeing where can I grab somebody. And that is very difficult, that it should. And so I take seriously that the Holy Spirit works and blows where he will. Maybe a little bit thick, a little bit. prudent on this point. You see, this whole business of reunion and proselytism all this time. In any case, in the moment we will get to unity, to visible unity, the moment will come, we will all feel reunited. The Catholic will say, oh look those Reformed people, they are absolutely Catholic.

[32:13]

And the Reformed people say, look those Catholic people, they are absolutely Reformed. That's the moment of unity. And this moment will come, and we will sure come back to the Roman Church, absolutely. How could there be unity without we now seeing through history, coming back to Rome again as Rome joining the Reformation a Reformation not of the 16th century but a Reformation as it has begun come back to Rome not to Rome of the 16th century But here's Rome 60th century and there's a way through history.

[33:15]

This moving towards Jesus Christ is becoming more perfect on the Church. This accommodating, this conforming herself still more according to the pattern of the Holy Spirit. Yes, in that sense, reunion. finding back, coming together again. It has to do with the mystery of the Church. And by living in mystery, we take always a risk. We can leave a system, follow a schedule, and then as to the system and the schedule, we have taken no risks. That when you are called to live in mystery, The more you advance in knowledge as to the ministry, the more profound it appears to you.

[34:20]

Therefore, it is so good that there is church authority. There are authorities as to the pastoral ministry that we shouldn't risk too much sometimes. The only attitude we can have is to accumulate the attitude of poverty. We live as the poor. Not because God does not give us great gifts, but because we do not know the implications of the great gifts He gives. We do not know the implications of our own baptism. We know, but how far? In the grace of grace. You see, the Canticle of the Ecumenist, call the man this way, the Magnificat, the Magnificat from A to Z, from Z to A, this is the Salt of Church, the Canticle of the Church, the Canticle of Unity, of all those who pray and who long to work for Unity.

[35:30]

the humble, the meek. In this sense, too, the Virgin Mary is a figure of the Church. The attitude of ecumenics is an attitude on the promise, because unity is not an idea of some particular Church people. It is an idea of the Lord Himself. It is part of His will. and the attitude of poverty. Under promise is the attitude with the vision, the vision which will never forget that the Church is only the first fruits of creation. Only the first of all those others linked to them as they are linked to and God loves men. We first fruits of creation. The Church going through history And one day when God comes back, the whole universe, all men, all things even, becoming one in Christ, Saint Paul speaks about.

[36:40]

All will be one in Him. That is to say, that all will respond to the most intimate intentions of God. when He created the world, when He created the universe, which He created with the Word, and in the Word, and through the Word, which is Jesus Christ our Lord. Now I thought I'd ask Frère Laurent to give us this introduction into the ecumenical spirit, and then perhaps Paul to tell us a little about the concrete work in the Packard Mass.

[37:58]

what he's doing there would you um what would you like would you like to hear him now to explain or would you like to have some questions to friend Of course, there are many questions, I know. Let me tell the facts very quickly, and then perhaps as we try to implement the spirit of what Bernard was saying, there may still be many more questions. We began, as perhaps some of you have heard, by going first of all to Cardinal Cushing in Boston and asking, may we invite Catholics to Packard Matts for conversations.

[39:06]

And he gave unqualified permission for us to invite anyone that we wished. sent us to Monsignor Lally in Boston to talk with him. And then a few weeks, within a couple of weeks, he appointed a faculty member from St. John's Seminary in Boston to be a liaison between what we were doing at Packard Manse and the Archdiocese. This was point for real rejoicing on our part that we could so easily now return always to this man at St. John's, telling everything that we did. We first of all scheduled a seminar which would meet three different weekends, and each of the three weekends would have three sessions. Our agenda went something like this. First, Frederick all introduced the whole problem of ecumenism and the spirit much as he's done this evening then um a second session i spoke on saint ignatius of loyola everyone thought i would speak about antioch and how he is

[40:20]

forefather of Protestants as well as of Catholics in his mysticism and how in our own life as Christians we turn to him for guidance and for an example. Then Ferdinand spoke in the third session about the history of private devotion and private prayer because it's on this ground that the whole work of unity must work, must continue. In the second meeting, six weeks later, the second weekend, we had a Baptist, a Southern Baptist, speak on the subject from the Apostles' Creed, I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord. And the Dominican priest spoke on the same topic exactly in a very, very exciting, unified way as they stood side by side at the very center of their faith.

[41:32]

And the third session of that second meeting spoke on spirituality today, drawing from Now the third meeting has not yet taken place, but it will in two weeks, and the subject will be the Holy Spirit and the Church. Again, a Catholic and a Protestant speaking on the same subject. Now we held similar meetings, none as extended as this. We had a meeting on an evening in which we had an agape dinner together, 15 Protestant ministers, 15 Catholic priests, with prayers and litany and reading of scripture together around the table.

[42:35]

And then a man from St. John's Seminary gave a lecture on the coming ecumenical council. We're also planning two more seminars next month. There will be one-weekend meetings only. The topic of one will be the Mass and the life of the faithful. The Catholic will speak on this subject, and the Protestant will speak on the Holy Communion in the life of the faithful. And one other meeting, which will be entirely for Presbyterian ministers, in which Dominican priest will speak on the subject Ecclesia Semper Reformanda and a Protestant clergyman will speak on the subject The Doctrine of the Virgin Mary according to the Gospel of St. John. Eventually, the way to grow closest together is to come inside the other one.

[43:42]

And this is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard, is the Lord speaking about meanings in Europe, in which a Protestant, let us say, would come before you and give an interpretation of the rule of St. Benedict. after years, of course, of study, and then you, in return, would come before Protestants, as in the case of Dizzee, and give an exposition of the rule of Dizzee, this growing closeness inside each other. Well, this is the way we're involved at the present time, for which we seek your heart and prayer. And Paul also asked to look forward a little for next year for the celebration of the wake of unity, to see and think about ways of doing that.

[44:50]

Now, there's any questions? Is Pact of Mass already... I mean, is it... I understand that it is going to... hope to make a foundation of contents in Massachusetts, but is this already a fatal company? No, this is not quite correct. We've heard rumors about this, too. They come from other sources than Pact of Mass Music. There are no plans for making a foundation in the United States. I think that's the best way to say it, quickly. And Packard Manse was founded about three years ago, or maybe five, depending on the date you take, by a group of young clergymen. as a center set apart from the normal parish, where certain aspects of the life of the church could be more intensely considered, intensively, for the renewal of the life of Christians.

[46:08]

And now this subject, this whole project, or whatever it's called, has emerged as one of the most compelling in our life. It's risen to primacy in our interests. Being a native of... Is that the Boston? Is that the Boston? It says Stoughton, 20 miles south, near Brockton, near Bridgewater. Oh, yes, right. Stoughton is where my mother lives in Randolph. It's just behind Randolph. Yes, it is. have you been invited or have you sought admittance to the council, forthcoming council, to be held in Rome, and if so, has there been any work done on it at Pisae? As a matter of fact, our prior and our sub-prior were seized by the Pope a week after his enshrinement.

[47:17]

pushed by Cardinal Géraldine. So, oh sir, it is of primary importance that as soon as possible you see him, that his pontificate may be marked and Cardinal Joliet has two poems. He said, I like only his piece called, very good and all still, extremely easy. He had two poems. I only like for the unity of Christians and for the witness of the gospel among the poor, the proletarians. Social, And he wanted to mar these things at Holy Father's eye and ear, practical present. And as our flesh had been seen by the Twelve, and came, as I tell, just giving everything to Rome, he wanted them to be there.

[48:28]

Now, we've got ten days after and so on, ten days after, and so on. And then the Pope said, come back, for I have things to speak about. There was this meeting where he would go back then. No, and he came back in January. It was not then. And then we spoke about this council. And the Pope wanted them to come back and with points as to council, what persons would feel about them. Now and then, as I told yesterday, the president of the Reformed Church posed himself that they would go two times last year. Oh, yes, you see, he has, as far as he himself would see, not any inconvenient. I mean, the church people, they surely see. They are already very upset that they know there is one time a year. And they have to regard the unity of the flock just like a bishop.

[49:31]

A bishop sometimes has to say no, although his heart should say yes. Didn't this pastor matter? Now, and then instead of going in April to Rome and speaking things through, the text be worked out, spoken, worked out with other ministers. And then the Jesuit father, ,, the head of the Unitas, Then may I ask what text was that? A text in which we are asked that things should be considered at the forthcoming council. And not things which we so couldn't consider. Not in the sense of we will tell the truth. We will tell them, please turn around.

[50:37]

For instance, let's take the papal infallibility. There is an ask to rectify papal infallibility. How could we ask that? It's only asked to consider the collegiate Collegiate. Collegiate character. Collegiate character. Character of the reigning minister in the church. Just the point where the Vatican Council had stopped because of the war, asked, please go on. But take into account things which are They think that some things are difficult to accept as a place to... You see, I mean, in this sense, there's not made a state, a list, and say, now, Rome should look this way.

[51:41]

And therefore, please, try to move yourself through. No, no, there's not a role. Not a role of a prophet, no, no, that's too wrong. The only thing is that we have to take seriously that the most important meeting going on and that we as Christians may have desires, brotherly, humble desires and hopes and expectations. And I think the fact that Father Duvalier, instead of going to Paderborn to a ecumenical meeting, you know, of the Catholic ecumenical principle in Paderborn, cancelled his going there and came to Tenzin. came afterwards to speak with some Protestant people. It is a magnificent example of the Catholicity of the Church. The Church is Catholic in the sense that it knows all the time about all men and all creation. The realm of the Catholic is huge.

[52:43]

And it goes through there, not its own pathway, through history, through church, through... No, it goes in a Catholic way. Hearing, listening, looking. I will not say that the Protestant church would do it so easily. So easily go and make some trouble to hear one another, or the bishop, or the bishop, or things that would mean, whatever wishes and kinds of things. or some would, some would not. In any case, this is a magnificent example of what the Catholicism means. It's just not this. No, it has to serve. Let our Lord serve.

[53:46]

The Church has to serve. Very beautiful. And so what I thought to come further, we do not know. Surely we would be rather took a position, because we are not a church. We are just some people. We are a community. But each of us belongs to a different Protestant church. Some belong to the Reforged of France and the Reforged of Hoven. We went to the Lutheran Church of France, Lutheran Church of Germany. So we began with somewhat, we got it as a church. That's the road, maybe easier. Really, it would be very easy to get our prior or very close to the council meeting.

[54:54]

Very close. But then they will have to take into account again that they are ministers of the Reformed Church. See? So only thing you have to go, you can call it diplomacy. Now, you saw our prior, you see, they're not taking it. He hates you. You have to take somebody. You have to be all kinds of serpent, and there's a girl. And it's easier to be as a dove than you are as a serpent. And the interesting thing on this point is that two books of our friends have been reviewed recently by the Ossetian Plovero Manu, a book about the Eucharist of Fray Max, and a book about the spirituality our community could say about ecumenical work, a booklet of our prior

[56:03]

and it is a very positive review. The book of our prior has a preface of Cardinal Gérard Dieu as the Prime Minister of France, and of Pasteur Bucnay, who is the President of the Federation of Protestant Churches of France. The Book of Fair Marks has been proclaimed a book, a remarkable book, in the year of the fourth centenary of the first Reformed Synod of France, the Reformed Synod of France. On the other hand, it has been reviewed by Father Boyer, the Jesuit, in the Sotto Re Romano. He said that when such books are written, there's no reason, despair is the only cause. It's particular. It's surely dangerous. Those are men who will say, this is very beautiful, yet a particular feeling.

[57:10]

That's exactly it. But wouldn't it be much more, how to say, dangerous and particular and peculiar and all you want if we didn't have this feeling? What is the situation of sinfulness because of faithfulness? You can say very easily to me that you are faithful in your own way. Surely. But I could draw my people, I mean the Protestant people, I could say, yes, but you have faithfulness here. And I can't drop on your heads either and take it. That's the point. And by wanting to be faithful to Christ, to Jesus Christ, to God, to all, we are in a sinful condition and continue. Now, all things which are not difficult, all things which do not make us give this particular feeling,

[58:19]

are direct gifts of the Lord. Sometimes you find signs, really, of His mercy, of His patience. And sometimes you find things like a foretaste of unity to come. I recall the parish meeting in Algiers, in St. Luke. The week of unity, two years ago, when I was there, three years ago now already, two years. Every year the parishes will be, Austin Parish and the Catholic Parish, In the other parish there are three priests of Mission de France. In the Protestant parish there is one pastor who is a very good man, a very good theologian, formerly very active in SEM, the Protestant movement. In December there were three or four meetings, a kind of catechism. Those parishes on the points that the Catholic knows, or that the Protestant knows that the Catholic is not a man who goes to confession and whose priests do not marry.

[59:23]

That is not the point, I don't know, as to Catholics and Protestants. What is really a Bible tradition? That's not the point. Do you have tradition, dear parish members? What makes really a man Catholic? What makes the Catholic church Catholic? What makes the church Catholic? What kind of Catholicism? The priests are the same. And I come together one evening, a Bible study and a common prayer. One time it will be the priest who will do the Bible study and the pastor and parish council will lead the common prayer. Now this year, I was there, it was the pastor who would help Bible study. And the priests had prepared the prayer. The Bible study about Jesus and the heathen, very difficult subject, brilliantly presented.

[60:30]

People put in questions. After two seconds, the priest, I mean, the priest in charge, of course, beside the pastor, he said, I'm trying to make the Eucharistic people. It was a coincidence. You wouldn't know who asked whether it was Rosamund or Catherine. And you wouldn't know, yeah, you saw, surely, but you wouldn't know who was, no. It was trying to bring clarity to Christian people as to, here is the Bible text of the prophet Jeremiah. Afterwards, common prayer. very, very beautiful there was other meanings to that is would this happen only one times a year because otherwise we would forget it is only a sign and not yet a sign of reality not of the real reality and we don't forget about it in Taizé we have church in Simultanea it's a Catholic parish church in which we celebrate our offices but we don't have the right to celebrate the Eucharist on the main altar it's very good we are started

[61:40]

We restored the church, we restored the altar. We broke out this Mrs. Boberg thing, which was in it, I was permission. It was open. And we restored the Romanesque altar. Very, very beautiful. And for us too to be very beautiful, it's all right. Bishop, it's a very happy world restoration. It helps to show it to the people who get it sometimes. But he doesn't want to serve it to me. And it's good. It's absolutely good. It's a portable altar, as he put before. Maybe not before. In the choir, in between the arch and . It's good. It is really good. It is good. that he prays with you, and he celebrates that you come to his temple.

[62:48]

It was a simple thing for me, as we were in Rome, and being in the catacombs of Priscilla, in this chapel over there, about which he said that St. Peter has celebrated Max and I were there in the morning, and there was a young Chinese priest celebrating Mass there, and two ladies, very devoutly fast. And it would have been so easy to go and to receive. And it was so difficult not to go that we didn't go. Of course, if the priest would have known that you are Protestants, he would have seen you know exactly what to do, what to say, what to do. And if you don't say, you should look very involved. Then the man will say, I think you are so involved that you will not speak.

[63:49]

I mean, that's not the point. That's not the way in receiving your Lord. How to say that? by trompe, trompe. Fraud. By frauding a priest. So we just prayed the moral argument and left it up to this very dear Spanish language and to the Chinese priest. Yeah.

[64:18]

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