in search of the gold. In the pasture of the world, I endlessly push aside all grasses in search of the ox. Following unnamed rivers lost on the interpenetrating paths of distant mountains, my strength failing and my vitality exhausted cannot find the ox. Being about the endless wild grass you seek in a search, the rivers rot in, the mountains stretch on, and the trails go ever deeper. You're strength exhausted and spirit wearied. No place allows you refuge.

[01:02]

The only sound evening clouds show the neighbors. The only sound of what? The cicadas. The cicadas. In Japanese, the cicadas are called senbi. And in Japan in the summer, it's got very loud. Much louder than crickets. And they're big. About the size of Mexican cockroaches. So that's the first verse. And would you do the preface, please, Teddy? Preface to the first verse. So now the ox has never been lost. Why then do you need to search for it? Turning away from your own awakening, you become estranged from it. Then enclosed by dust, in the end, you lost it. The hills of home recede farther and farther away.

[02:06]

You're lost as soon as the paths divide. Winning and losing consume you like flame. Right and wrong rise around you like flame. So I asked you to contemplate that. And so I wonder how you are with that first set of verses in the first picture. He's like a person in a scene. Yeah. There's a person, and there's some vegetation, and is there some water in it? Like there's some mountains? So anybody got anything to say about that first picture? Anything that came up for you in the first picture?

[03:07]

Anybody living in the first picture? Pulled my leg. Anybody want to join Steven? Yes, Steven Adler. I'll join you. Yes. I have one other aspect. Last time when we talked about it, we talked about being lost and it was more like negative, you know, the struggle of the stage. And then I thought, yeah, but at least he or she knows that there is an ox. And actually it's remembering and knowing that there is an ox. Otherwise, so actually it's also something that keeps me going, that I start seeking. Would I continue seeking? Actually, for me, it's not only negative. There's a seeking in you? Mm-hm.

[04:11]

And a remembering. A remembering? Mm-hm. About the ox. Any other expressions? about the first verse, the first picture of this person. Yes. It's a question, really. The image of the interpenetrating paths, I think I've been contemplating that, and I'm wondering what is that? Interpenetrating paths. Interpenetrating paths. I mean, I've speculated a lot, you know, about how we all try different ways to reach the top of the mountain, but actually the paths are just leading back into the same path.

[05:14]

But I would really appreciate it if you could say something about that. Any of you on the path? Yeah, the bird's path. The bird's path. You're on the path? The bird's path. Okay. And do you see any other paths around you? Is there any other path around you? The paths are everywhere. Do you see some? Right now, at this moment? Mm-hmm. I've walked the path of the 12 steps. The path from here to the Stillwater Hall. Are you in conversation with any other paths? Other than the path of practice?

[06:23]

Yes. It's made me think that when you're continuing along the path and following your instincts to what you feel is the right path, but whenever you feel the next step is, it's easy to stay on the path. But when you stray from it, it's hard to even recognize it until you can't find the... It's harder to... You can't find the path anymore. Then you have to actually work again towards it. Does that make any sense, I think? Like, sometimes, like, just... Is this a description of the first picture, the first verse? That's just what it brought up for me. Like when you're lost and you're seeking, it's hard to find the path.

[07:52]

When you're lost and you're seeking, it's hard to find the path. Yeah. But once you find it and you kind of just go with your intuition, you don't even realize that you're on a path at all. You don't realize you're on a path at all. Or on a path. like a certain path, you just can feel like you're going in the right direction. So you don't feel like you're on a path, you feel like you're heading in the right direction. But then sometimes I'll lose my concentration or my effort, and all of a sudden I don't know what happened. It takes a while to get back. You lose your concentration. And my effort. And you lose your effort. And then where are you? I don't know. Then I can't figure it out. It takes a while to figure it out. And then you don't yet know before the while.

[08:54]

How is it when you don't know? And you have lost your effort and lost your path. How is that? It feels really... Empty and grasping. So even though you're lost, there's some grasping and some empty? Like a void that I'm trying to fill with my grasping. You're trying to fill with grasping. So that does sound like maybe your version of the first picture. Does that make sense? Anybody else have a... A life like that, sometimes? Yes? It's really fuzzy, but it's sort of like... There's something about, for me, like that initial search or striving being very necessary and like a step in the wrong direction.

[09:57]

And it seems to say something like the oxygen level being lost and as you move on you step away from the... You said the initial, did you say search? Yeah, the initial kind of striving. The initial striving seems, did you say necessary? Strictly, yeah, it was like... Necessary and a wrong step? I don't know about wrong and step, but it was like, oh crap, I need to get out of this suffering. So, like, I need to be a different kind of person. I need to, like, strive and look for a path or an ox or something. I need to look for an ox and I need to be a different person? Yeah, that was the initial thing. And I think I needed... Perhaps I needed to go through that in order to realize, like, oh, I don't need to be a different person. Yeah, perhaps you... When you are feeling like you have to be a different person, maybe you have to go through feeling like you have to be a different person.

[11:03]

And you also said something about a wrong step. So it might be a wrong step to take a step away from being a person who thinks he needs to be a different person. Does that make sense? It might be a wrong step. If you feel like you need to be a different person in order to You said get through that? Yeah. Maybe what you have to do is not take a step away from that. Not try to get rid of thinking that you need to be a different person. But be the person who thinks you have to be a different person. So it is necessary that when you think you need to be a different person, it is necessary to think you need to be a different person.

[12:10]

Yes? What came up for me this week is the practice of returning What's coming to mind right now, hearing this conversation and reading those lines is, here's the place, here's the way it unfolds. And like you said, Chad, that impulse to begin the search, that for me is the problem. And I keep doing that, I keep thinking that I have to escape and look somewhere else. And that's, in my experience, that's when the river is brought in and the forest deepened because it's the searching for something other that's continuing to generate the suffering for me. It's like the delusion that anything other than exactly what's happening right now, like the turning away from right now is the forfeit of this enlightenment that has never been lost.

[13:17]

And I keep forgetting that, and so the practice for me is And what's really useful about this image is that I'm like, oh, this is the first picture again and again. And it's a reminder, actually, no. It's not lost. It's only this. Yes. Yeah, it really resonates. For me, I guess, I wasn't so sure about what I was reading when I read the words, but just looking at the picture, it sort of evokes this endless wandering, and that's sort of what started me thinking. It's like... no matter what path we're on through life, no matter what steps we're taking, we're on a path.

[14:19]

So then my question became, so what does this ox represent? And that's like the awakening, the presence of really being there. So it's like that impulse of dissatisfaction with searching, not acknowledging that we are on this path. So where is the ops that we're searching for? And why do we assume that it's on any different path, but it's a specific path because no matter where we are, it's our path.

[15:23]

You step into some dark, scary woods, the steps that we take, that is our path. But maybe the off is always there. I don't know. That's sort of the question as well. I'm feeling like I don't really have a complete thought there. I think it's sort of that difference between the aimless wandering and realizing that we're already on this path. By the way, in the verses, And I think also in the prefaces to the verses, there's no mention of the Bodhisattva vow. Did you see any mention of it? So I wonder, where's the Bodhisattva vow?

[16:29]

It might as well look like the beginning, but where is it? Is it in the background of these? These are pictures, you could say, that are supposed to be pictures of the Zen bodhisattva adventure. So we could say maybe that in the background of this thing is this vow, which the person in the first picture, and maybe the person in various of these phases doesn't necessarily know that vow, or that it's in the background and it's assumed. that the person who is in this picture has this vow, that they're on this path, the Bodhisattva path. Just a thought for you. Maybe that's what this is about, even though it doesn't mention it. So then there's this subtle thing about the name of this thing is seeking ox. And we don't yet know what the ox is, but there's seeking of it.

[17:32]

It seems like they're seeking of something other. Yeah. I'm looking at the one that's all versus your pictures. Yeah. Number 10. Hiding your light between the tracks of faces, et cetera. Visiting bars and fish stalls, you turn all into ghouls. Is that perhaps? If no, then the verse, if no display of magic power, you make withered trees burst into flower. Might be. I would have put a little bit of bonus activity there. Did you read the preface to the tank picture? First I read the preface and then the verse. Part of the preface. The preface has a couple of notaries in it. Well, something about Bodhisattva, and I thought the verse did too, if you take the three retreats.

[18:37]

So maybe a document in the Bodhisattva Bible. I could infer it. Yeah, I think I would infer it. Go right ahead. What? Go right ahead. It's like your inference. Yeah, yeah. Yes. This is sort of going back to what Sarah and Jeff were saying. And this is sort of what I was puzzling over this week is, I mean, so we're exhausted and our spirit is wearing and yet somehow we still have energy to be searching. I don't puzzle where where this motivation comes from, or what the quality of this spiritual wariness is, such that we can go through nine more stages. Well, even before we go through the nine stages, where would the energy for the initial searching come from?

[19:38]

So any thoughts on where it comes from? Yes. I think it's just the impulse to live. It says no place allows you refuge. If you're not looking for an ox, at least you're looking for refuge. You're exhausted, you're tired, but at least there was this impulse to live, if anything, to find refuge. Where does the impulse to live or refuge come from? I'm suffering from living. I'm just being alive. And where does being alive come from? I don't know. Yes? The part where it says that oxygen's never been lost, so what need is there to support it? What that made me think of is... Like maybe at this point, you can conceive of a time where you think that you weren't on the path.

[20:48]

And maybe that recollection, you thought maybe you were happy. So maybe this initial seeking is trying to get off the path and return to this conception of not being on the path where you weren't searching. So maybe that's the last piece. You're trying to return to that point where you were, where you weren't on the path? Some people may be up to that. If you're on the path, try not to be on the path. That would be one way to get exhausted. For me, one term would be what I said before, if I know about the ox, the ox, no other place can be a refuge because it's not really enough. So actually I do see the Bodhisattva vow already in the first picture. What I said about Timmy Mendels, there's an ox and nothing else is right because he knows he could do better.

[21:57]

There is an ox, he wants it back. Does it say something about remembering the ox? No. You think that. Instead of searching, seeking. You're just outside his vision. Pardon? You're just outside his vision. That's something to say to her. I'm sorry. When you asked if There's any mention of the Bodhisattva vow? I didn't think about it, and then I looked down and I saw the line that says, in the first picture preface, turning away from your own awakening, you became estranged from it. So is that an implication, that there is some kind of vow there? What is your own awakening that you became estranged from? Is that the ox? Yeah, so maybe becoming estranged from your own awakening is also becoming estranged from your own vow.

[23:00]

So the vow maybe is implied in the first picture, and maybe the first picture is we have, for the moment, kind of become disoriented in regard to our vow. And that disorientation leaves us somewhat confused and exhausted and maybe demoralized and have despair, losing our faith because we kind of got disoriented. We don't know where our faith is. But maybe it's right there. But we can't see it, and we're... We're a little bit having a hard time because we turned away from either our true nature or our vow, which comes with that true nature. And then the suggestion I made last time is if we can be with any impulse to go someplace else, like

[24:06]

can't remember our vow, but we'd like to go someplace where we can remember our vow. So when we can't remember our vow, we might actually want to remember, or we might ask, what was my vow again? And I would like to be a different person who remembers his vow. All those possible thoughts could arise. And if we don't, we're caught. If we don't, you know. If I didn't have any of those vows, if we don't abide in the thought, I need to be a different person, then we will be a different person. If we don't abide in the seeking, we will go on seeking in a different way than we are now. In the next picture, we see some tracks.

[25:11]

And we could have asked in the last picture, what's the ox? So let's say we're back in the last picture, and we say, what's the ox? What's the ox when you're in the first picture? What's the ox? Now we're in the second picture. What's the ox? What is the ox? The ox is the south. The ego, the ego self, that's what I... The ox is the self? And what is the ox? What is the ox? Yeah. The higher self. Oh, the ox herders the higher self. Okay. And who are you? And what are you? Are you the higher self? Are you the ox herder or are you the ox? I'm trying to figure out. I don't think I can be the ox herder. I mean, My thought in kind of following the sequence was that, you know, simply, you know, the ox is meant for something about who I am, which I have to find before I can ultimately let go of that and put it in the table.

[26:40]

Good work. In the first picture, there's the ox. Are you in the first picture? Yes. Is your in the first picture? My self-centered consciousness. Is your self-centered consciousness in this room? Yes. Is this the first picture? Could well be. It could be. Or even if the first picture could be in this room, and I could be a self-centered consciousness, or there could be a consciousness where I'm at the center.

[27:48]

It does seem like that, actually, that there's an awareness, which I would call consciousness, where there's somebody kind of sitting in the middle, or anyway, sitting in a good seat, watching a show. And to some extent, it's not clear what's going on. So I can kind of be in the first picture right now. And I am the sense of self in the first picture. And I'm wondering, or there's wondering where I am, there's wondering if you guys are the ox. And if I, I think if I let that be,

[29:01]

Then I'm also ready to be the second picture, where I actually see the traces of the ox in each of you. And by seeking to know you, I'm working with the traces or the footprints of the ox. which is the footprints of you. But the footprints are not you. They're just the footprints of you, which I can see. I can see the footprints of you right now. Again, these are not you, these are footprints of you. These are the way you appear in my mind. And the way you appear in my mind, I think, might be traces of the arts that I want to know.

[30:11]

And there's two things I have to say. One is that to move forward in your study, of you, who are the ox for me, I need to be the person I am right now. And also, I tell myself right now, I'm not going to find out who you are. But if I try to find out who you are, I will become free. of the Oxford, or I will become for you the self-centered one of you, by inquiring into what I will never know. You. So now, with the aid of the teachings, I'm in the second picture, where I understand

[31:21]

that view on the traces or the footprints of the ox. And I did not try to get out of the first picture to be in the second picture. I just naturally wondered what the ox was. And because I was willing to be in a place of wondering where the ox was, I came up with the product, what the ox is. which is right in front of me. And it was in the previous one, but I hadn't done my work of being in the previous one. But after I was willing to be in the previous one with wishing to be somebody else, wanting to know the ox, then I get a hint of what the ox is. Mainly, it's each one of you for me. And so now I'm going to try to find out who you are.

[32:24]

And even before I start, I don't think I'm ever going to. And I don't need to find out who you are, except I need to find out who you are. I can keep living without finding out who you are, even though I never will. And then it wouldn't be a problem, because I don't need to. I don't need to find out who you are. And I'll be all right if I don't. And if I did, I would say that I desire to find out who you are. Because if you desire to find out who you are, I will find out who I am. Is it your vow? Pardon? Is it your vow? Not who I am. Is it your vow? It's my vow to be free of egoistic clinging.

[33:28]

And I understand that part of my work to become free of egoistic clinging is to try to find out who you are. So is there no point to finding out who anyone is? There is no point in finding out, but there is a point in desiring to find out. There is a point. Say that again? There's no point in finding out. There's a point in desiring to find out. What's the point? To be free of self-centered consciousness. I cannot become free of my self-centered consciousness without you, and without desiring and knowing. And for example, I can use empathy as one of my practices to know you.

[34:31]

But empathy doesn't mean I'm going to know you. Empathy is that I'm trying to see things as you might. That's part of my inquiry into you, who I will never know. So how can you know me? How can you know me? I cannot. I cannot, and therefore I don't need to. However, if I want to, even though I cannot, I will become free of my self-centered conscience. Why do you want to be free of your self-centered consciousness? To help other people who are miserable. Because they're trapped in self-centered consciousness. And they're trying to be somebody else. They want to be free. And rather than totally exert their present situation and move forward, like totally exert the first picture, the next one comes up.

[35:40]

So now we're in the second picture, where we've now discovered what is the traces of the ox. You're the traces of the ox for me. We're all traces of the ox for you. Now there is a wish to get to know the ox. I'm just saying ahead of time, you're not going to find out what the traces of the ox are, you're not going to find out what the ox is, but it is good, if you want to liberate all beings, to want to know the ox. Yes? I wonder, is one way we might... One way I... I sometimes think about the ox is that it's this idea of enlightenment or dharma or something that's somehow separate from us. I'm hearing you talking about all of us being footprints.

[36:49]

And one of you, by the way, you just said. One of us? One of you? One of you guys from me, what you just said. All of you guys. Well, there's all of you guys, and then there's the idea of what you just told us about. Right. That's another thing that's not me. I think you lost me, or I lost you. You lost you. Right. But I used what you said as an example of another thing which I desire to know. Ah. and which I will never know. And so would one way of thinking about seeing the ox be to think that other people, like the ox might be the idea that we can know other people, but... That too. The ox could be the thought that you could know other people, but not your own thought, somebody else's thought, which you never know.

[37:50]

which you should desire to know. And I'm kind of desiring to know this thought that you have, which I'm not going to know. And you can keep telling me, no, you don't know. And you don't know me either, by the way. No, no, I'm impersonating you. Bob, you're telling me I don't know you. That's probably true. And I'm saying, I still want to. I desire to. And I could also say, I don't need to. And you could say, yes, you do. And I could say, I don't need to. But I desire to. And desiring to know me and talking to you about how to do that, or talking to you is how to do it, and I can also talk about how to do it with you, that conversation is the only way to become free of self-centered consciousness and realize our intimacy with the ox.

[38:58]

We're already intimate with the ox. We're already intimate with others. which is our enlightenment. What would make me think that you had anything to do with me? What would make you think that I had anything to do with you? A desire for getting to know you that I would want. To somehow see myself in you. What might that be before? You have something to do. Are you being simultaneous with that? Can you follow that? What's simultaneous with what? Something simultaneous with your wish to know me. Or it could be before. Something could be going on, and you have a desire to know me.

[40:03]

Even beside the fact that I told you that your desire to know me is essential for you to become free of yourself too. But now that I told you that, that communication, which I gave because you asked me for it, that communication is where this desire comes from. The desire to know others, not so that when you know that you'll be free of suffering. The desire to know others is the desire to realize intimacy and liberation together. And that desire arises because we are in communication with each other. That's our nature. That communication is where this wish to know each other comes from. There's something, there's real hope and possibility there in that communication.

[41:09]

That is, like, I see something, I see a connection between me and you in communicating such that I would want to get to know you. And not only do you want to get to know me, but more to the point, you want to realize your true relationship with me, which doesn't require that you know me, but does require that you want to know me. Because you already have. You already know who I am. You've accomplished that already. And you also already had a relationship with me already. An actual relationship gives rise to the wish to free all beings from egotistical consciousness, to free all beings from suffering. So there's something in the desire I thought we weren't supposed to want anything as bodhisattvas.

[42:15]

Bodhisattvas, what do you call them? Well, bodhisattvas are born of a relationship with Buddhas who wish for us to open to Buddhist wisdom. So Buddhas wish, and when we're in communication with Buddhas, a wish arises in us to become Buddhas for the sake, for the welfare of all beings. So Buddhas come to meet us out of a wish, and in that relationship with Buddhas, a wish is born in us to be Bodhisattvas. But even before the wish arises, we're still already in that relationship. So in the first picture, we don't necessarily know that we're wishing for perfect enlightenment, but we're still already in that relationship.

[43:18]

At a certain point, that relationship did rise to the explicit wish to be Buddhist. And that's born of our relationship with Buddhists. So knowing you is not knowing the ego you. It's knowing the pseudo you. You're not going to know me. Actually, I was talking to the priest this morning about this, and I was talking to Fulu, and she was saying something about... I think she might have said, how does it look? I don't think she said, how do you know it? I think she said, how does it look? And I don't know what I said. But she kept talking, and I kept nodding. And it doesn't exactly look like this. It is this.

[44:20]

This conversation we're having is it. It's not like there's another knowledge other than this conversation. And in this conversation, I want to know you. But the thing that's motivating me to want to know you is the conversation we're already in. And again, in the second picture, we're starting to get a feel for this. In the first picture, we're not oriented. But if you're willing to be in the first, if you ever go back to the first picture you visit, and you want to be somebody other than you, then if you can like, not run away from that person, then you move forward into the second picture where you see traces of what you're looking for.

[45:21]

And there again, if you don't run away from that, from seeing traces, including the desire to understand that's making the traces, that's fine. You could also have the desire to know. I already said that. You do have the desire to know what the traces are, or who's making the traces. But it's not that you're going to know, it's that you're going to move forward having this wish to know. And you're accepting the wish to you. You're not trying to get away from the wish to know, even though you're going to keep not knowing. If you can accept that you're wanting to know, completely, we won't fall into the next stage of wanting to know. So wanting to know is dependent on not knowing.

[46:28]

Yeah, they go nicely together. Isn't it searching for something other than this, even though you call it a wish? If you have any searching for anything other than this, That would be another thing to not run away from. But when you say wish or... Desire. Or desire, it implies not wanting to be the way you are, or who you are. For you it implies if you wish something, if you wish, well, what about if you wish to be who you are? I think that's a rare... What? That's pretty rare. Let me say, what if you did wish to be who you are? That would be great. And who you are is somebody who might wish to know one of us.

[47:35]

Or even me. So, I wish I was who I am, and who I am is somebody who wants to know him. And so far, I wish to be me who wishes to know you. And right now, I don't feel like I'm wishing to be other than me. I'm wishing to know the one other than me, you. And I'm not going to know, but I'm going to keep wishing. And that will motivate me to have conversations with you. Aren't you objectifying me by calling me you? Objectifying? Like, separate from you. If I'm objectifying, I'm not going to run away from being an objectifier. And if I want to know who you are, and I start having a conversation with you, there's no object

[48:42]

that I'm involved with that point, I'm involved in the conversation. You don't see self and other like that in what you're saying? The conversation does not see self and other. There may be somebody there who sees self and other, but that person may wish to know the other. Is that the observer? Yes, that's the observer who wants to know the other. And when she's in that relationship of trying to know the other, that actual interaction itself doesn't have any object outside of it that it's trying to get. It's working on the relationship. So why does it try to tame it? Why does it try to tame the ox? It implies control. Why is it trying to tame the ox?

[49:59]

Could we talk about that when we get to the picture called Taming the Ox? Right now, I'm just kind of like, I've seen traces. And I want to know this ox. I'm not entertaining it yet. I haven't even seen it. So I'm just happy that I see some traces, and again, I can be now satisfied with this stage and not trying to get out of this stage, because if I'm trying to get into the next picture where I might be able to do some fancy stuff with the ox, I'm going to be stuck here. But already I would like to know what ox goes with these traces. I would like to know that. I have that in me, and I'm that person, and I'm willing to be that person. Are you willing to be that person? Are you that person? Are you in the second picture now, and are you willing to be that person? If you are, raise your hand.

[51:07]

Now, if you're willing to be that person, you can go ahead. And it goes all the way out. You're not willing to be that person? Yeah. Can we read the verses of the preface? Can we read it together? Can we read it together? Which picture are you talking about? Picture number two. Picture number two. Well, fine, let's read it. Kevin and Max, if you guys would be the readers again, stand up and read the two verses and translations. Preface. With the aid of the sutras, you gain understanding. Through a study of the teachings, you find traces. You see clearly the many vessels are all one metal, and the ten thousand things are all yourself. I agree. But if you do not distinguish correct from incorrect... Are you in still the preface?

[52:11]

Yes. Okay. How will you recognize true from false? Since you have yet to pass through that gate, only tentatively have you seen the trace of it. That was a long preface. Now let's have the verse. You can read your verse first, Kevin. By the water and under the trees, tracks thick and fast. In the sweet grasses thick with growth, did you see it or did you not? But even in the depths of the deepest mountains, how could it hide from others? It's now turned to the sky. Along the river bank, under the trees, I discovered footprints. Even under the fragrant grass I see these prints. Deep in remote mountains they are found. These traces can no more be hidden than one's nose looking heavenward.

[53:15]

So in one translation, it's saying that the ox's nose is up in the air, so that you can see the ox. The other picture, it's your own nose that you can't miss. You can't miss an ox in one picture. You can't miss your own nose in the other picture. So here, you and the ox are a little bit in the structure. Whose nose is this? Red? Yes. What you're talking about, um, who's eyeing toward the other and looking at the traces and then taking it back to the preface that says, but if you do not distinguish correct from incorrect, how will you recognize truth from false? How does that apply to a desire to know the other and also an attempt to know the other? You want to know what's happening to me?

[54:20]

Or do you want to tell us what's happening to you? Well, I don't really know what's happening with me. You don't know what's happening with you? I'm sitting in this chair, and I feel dizzy. And I'm talking in front of a bunch of people. So. When I heard that business about right and wrong and true and false, I thought, yeah, I can accept that kind of talk. Not my talk, but I can work with that. And people who talk like that, I have to really, like, remember that I want to know who they are.

[55:31]

There's not so much, you know, what does that... I can't talk. I would like to know who's saying it. Because it ain't me they're talking about. And I didn't get it all that fast. That's all right. That would be like the beginning of a long relationship, those words. Not for me to tell you what that's about. necessarily implying that there is a correct and an incorrect world. Who is saying those words? I want to find, I got to find out about who said that. So those words are like, what do you call it?

[56:35]

Those are tracks of somebody. If somebody's writing a poem about the picture, about the tracks, And then those words then become tracks of that person who's not me. I did not write that practice, by the way. Somebody else wrote it. Supposedly a disciple of the person who wrote the verses. So I hear thoughts like that. It's not so much like, you know, maybe I don't like that kind of talk. I don't. Kind of that. I have some aversion to that kind of talk because I have heavy trouble seeing that that kind of talk is part of me. I used to be talked like that, but I got over it, and now I forgot, and now sometimes I forget the person I used to be is still part of me.

[57:35]

But if I can recover from that and include that kind of talk, and then I can inquire into it. But I'm really trying to acquire into somebody that's not me. Because I'm trying to basically become free, not of me, but of the me perspective. I don't want to become free of me. I want to free me. I want to free me from me perspective. I want to free me from self-consciousness, the consciousness which has self. I want to free me and you from consciousness. which will make me free, but not free of me, it will make me free to be me in my actual relationship with you, which is the only way I am. And the first picture was like a difficult situation to accept and settle into, but

[58:43]

as a fruit of being willing to be in the first picture, you get to be in the second picture and develop the proper attitude towards traces of the other. and I'm trying to encourage myself and others, the appropriate attitude towards the traces, which again is to be willing to be in the picture with the traces and not try to get into the next picture, go back to the previous picture, and be with myself when I hear this description, and be myself when I hear the preface, which I a little bit have trouble remembering. I can talk like that, too. And that makes it easier for me not to have aversion towards whoever said that and try to make friends with an ancient, deceased Zen monk. Yes? I'm wondering a couple of things.

[59:48]

And one is how carefully the pictures are drawn as opposed to the verses and the preface. They're done in great care and thought. I mean, they're two different depictions. And I'm curious about how carefully, particularly, these ones are drawn. And my other question related to that Is there more than one way to say what the ox is? Because I think I hear you saying the ox looking at it as others. But are there other ways to say the ox? I mean, to have an understanding of what ox is referring to. I think I just found that if you told me other ways, most would be included in other. Yeah, okay. So go for it. Can I check mine again? Two things. One, and they're related. Yeah, you can bring it up. Because I find this incredibly charming. And I thought, first of all, just the Hello Kitty version.

[60:51]

The guys who made those drawings also originated the Hello Kitty. So then I just, in this class today, I cannot get past in the first picture that it looks to me like his feet are backwards. His head is turned. His head and his torso are not humanly qualified. Do you say you can't get past that? No, I cannot get past that. Okay, so... Second picture? The first picture. My first picture of me. So I had a question for you. Do you want to get past that picture? No, I want to check that I'm not the only person in the world to see the view on backwards. It is true. Does anybody else see the pictures on backwards? Yes. So that is my question. Is that where we put there? Because I would then make a story. For me, the box is conditioned response. It's a story about reality.

[61:55]

That's what the ox is for me. Ox is a story about reality? It's my conditioned response of this body-mind that's completely... It's not separate from other body-minds. To me, the ox is the conditioned response and... Or, this is another way to put it, therefore, what I think is reality. And so the first picture would be, I see reality. There's reality. That's what it is. There's just one way to do things. But really, it's like having a body that's not in sync. That kind of body that's not in sync thinks there's only this. And so seeing the traces is the same as others, but I start to see that there's more than just what I think is out there, or that I condition the thing, or that I conditionally respond. I start to see that there's quite Freedom to me is when the conditions somehow melt away and you're not the prisoner of just doing what you're conditioned to do.

[62:59]

Those are my ideas. What's a word that you would, what's synonymous with ops? Anonymous? Yes. How? Not well. We're doing Raphael. One of the things, when I look at the two bodies in those first two pictures, the first is one where it's not really talking to each other, the parts, the head, the torso, and the feet. But in the second picture, there's this amazing organization of freedom and focus is going after the traces. So I feel a very visceral difference between the first picture and the second picture. Cool.

[64:01]

From my perspective, I have conditioned responses for various things, And I would like to be free of my conditioned responses, and I'm proposing that studying others will lead me to become free of my conditioned response first, including my conditioned responses to others. Yes or yes? How does one study others? How? Yeah. Well, in your case, you start with that question. And did you notice anything else that was going on there? Anything else besides what?

[65:04]

What I just said. Do you hear what I said? Yeah. What else was going on at that time? I don't know. And besides that, what else was going on? Do you want anybody else to tell you what else is coming up? Sure. What? What? The clock was ticking. Yeah, the clock was ticking, and there was a conversation going on. So I would say that the process of searching for the ox... getting to know this thing that's not you, it happens by conversation. But you have to take up your own position in the conversation. If you're wobbling from your position, the conversation is going to be not happening, it's being on the ground.

[66:10]

So I need to have my feet on the ground and I need to encourage my partner to have his feet on the ground and then we can have a conversation about who wrote these verses? Who wrote the preface? Who drew the pictures? I want to know who drew those pictures and what he was up to. And you're not going to ever know. But such an adventure will be in perfect harmony with the Bodhisattva vow to free all beings. Starting with dealing with yourself as an example to other people. Yes, John? I was just thinking about the ways that this kind of liberating conversation happens within myself. I feel like when I'm sitting Zazen, there's this way that I'm meeting myself that's arising as these footprints.

[67:21]

Having a similar conversation about trying to get to know this being as well. And so I'm just curious what you think about that. Talking about between self and others, you and I right now, but also a way to engage within myself as the attract? Well, the first way I talked about was the engagement, inner engagement, the willingness to be somebody who wants to be someplace else. Somehow not running away from wanting to run away. not running away from fear, not running away from greed, not running away from aversion. That will be part of your inner work, part of your inner study itself. That would be necessary in order to do your part in a conversation.

[68:24]

I just thought how funny it is that I was saying to you that you want to know about the details of how to learn about your interior, so you have to wait for a later class. So you have to stay around for a few years. So now I'm mostly emphasizing the job of settling yourself and yourself so that you can have a conversation with the other. Because these pictures are about a relationship with other, I feel. First of all. Just looks as other. Yes. Are you saying that the ox is in the meeting? Once again? Are you saying that the ox is in the meeting between two persons? Yes, but the other person's in the meeting too, whoever it is. The ox is with the oxen. Right? It's not just the ox.

[69:34]

There's an option to... You're not following that? It looks like you don't understand it. Yeah, I'm profoundly confused. I'm profoundly confused right now. Yeah, so that's one person. Yeah. And then there's somebody else... with that person, that profoundly confused person, there's somebody else with that person. The ox herder. No, the ox. The ox. You can switch it if you want to. You can make the ox the confused one. In the picture, the ox isn't looking for the ox herder. That's not emphasized. Really, bringing the ox in is, the point of view in this picture is, in these pictures is, the point of view of the ox herder. The ox herder is in the first picture, not the ox. Then the traces of the ox.

[70:36]

Then the ox. So the ox does also want to know where the ox herder is. But you can make another set of pictures of having an ox looking for the ox herder. And then when the pictures are drawn, you try to find out who drew them. where they're coming from. The ox is also looking for the outsider. Yes. But the ox has a disoriented phase where she doesn't even know where she is and so on. But it's set up starting with the outsider looking for the ox. Yes. In the verse, I thought that the ox, the footprints of the ox are everywhere. They're under the grass. In the first picture, he's guarding the grass, can't see the ox. He's going up the mountain, can't see the ox.

[71:39]

And in the second picture, those ox, footprints of the ox are everywhere. They're on the mountain, they're in the grass. Yeah. And... Yeah. Why couldn't he see it in the first one? Because it was everywhere. You're interesting. Why he couldn't see it is good. And if you . Yeah, and maybe you'll even then, if you can be interested in why he couldn't see it, then maybe you'll start seeing something you didn't see before. If you can accept being a person wondering why he can't see. And I think wondering why people can't see things is good. and then having a conversation with them about not so much why can't you see, but what do you see? Tell me about what you do see, because they do see something. And I'd like to know what you see, not exactly,

[72:40]

I don't think most people know why they can't see. But they do kind of know what they see. And you won't be able to find out what they see, and you won't be able to find out why they can't see some things that they don't see. But you can still be interested and try to find out. But it's more polite to ask them what they do see as a way to do this impossible adventure of finding out why they don't. But I think we should just keep trying forever to understand and know why people can't see certain things. That would be good. That would be the endless path of saving all beings. So try to find out what they do see, even though you won't be successful. And then also try to find out why they can't, even though you won't be successful. Eventually they may even volunteer the information about why they can't, but then what does that mean? Is that inquiry into the mind?

[73:47]

Is that inquiry into the mind? Inquiry into the mind. Yes, it is. These pictures are about inquiry into the mind. And the ox represents your mind. Everything, all these pictures are representing mind. Part of the pictures are emphasizing... I wrote last time, remember I wrote three kinds of mind? Remember I wrote consciousness? Remember? I use consciousness for self-consciousness. That's where we're trapped. That's the narrow, that's a narrow mind. That's a narrow mind. Is that the ox hernia? It could be the observer. That would be a narrow version of the observer. And then the next kind of mind is unconscious mind, which is another possible candidate for a certain range of what the ox might be.

[74:49]

So part of what the ox is, is objects, appearing in consciousness, another part of what the ox is, is unconscious cognitive processes, which our consciousness is intimately related with already. That's the second kind of mind. Conscious cognition, unconscious cognition, and then we have Buddha cognition, or bodhisattva cognition, which is understanding. the other two types of mind. Understanding confined, limited, distorted self-consciousness liberates it. And that's another mind which understands the limited, deluded consciousness and frees the deluded consciousness. And the way it frees the deluded consciousness is by setting up conversations in deluded consciousness.

[75:49]

So Buddha cognition has its sponsors to have conversations with others. in the spirit not just of trying to get them under control, not to mention get yourself under control, but in the spirit of trying to find out what you'll never find out and what you'll never give up, trying to find out what you can't find out. That is sponsored by Buddha cognition, which is giving you language to have conversations with people. for this purpose. And the purpose becomes clearer and clearer if you move through these stages of inquiring into what you'll never get a hold of and being more and more enthusiastic about it. That's what poetry is. Yeah, poetry, right. You become more and more a poetic being and more and more an artist. who is like really up for people who are really sort of out to lunch.

[76:56]

You understand? Out to lunch? They all have a great understanding, because it's not like ours. And there's some real smart others too, but we want to know them all. And we more and more accept that we're never going to, and we're going to keep trying anyway. And that is sponsored by the third type of mind, the Buddha mind, which arises, the Buddha mind arises from working with these Buddha minds, according to the teachings of Buddhists. So by following the teachings of Buddhists, by following the teachings of the Buddha on how to deal with oxen, the Buddha mind starts to grow. And the vows become clearer, and the relationship with the other, who we don't know, becomes clearer.

[78:05]

The dance gets more and more lively with the partner we don't know. The conversation becomes more and more lively with a partner we don't know, we want to know, we're interested. Even if they say stuff like, something is drugs. And I don't look down on people I disagree with. Those others I disagree with, I don't look down on them. I want to develop them. In this process, I do. And again, I'm not going to get to know whoever's in the next picture unless I satisfy with my present inquiries, my present problems. And so I think maybe let's just read the third picture and then dive into the ocean.

[79:15]

Deana wants that. Deana wants that? Yeah. What is Deana? What is Deana? Okay. Huh? Am I reading? You can have one. Yeah, would you read? You can be next. Okay. So Kevin, please stand up. Please stand up and holler, holler. And Kevin? Perceiving the Bull. I hear the song of the nightingale. The sun is warm, the wind is mild. Willows are green along the shore. Here no ox can hide. What harness can draw that massive head, those majestic horns? Louder, please, Kevin. Through sound, you gain entry. By sight, you face your force.

[80:19]

The six senses are not different in each daily deed plainly there. Like salt and water or glue and paint, raise your eyebrows. There's nothing other. In the trees, nightingales sing and sing again. Sun warms the soft wind. Green willows line the bank. Here, there's nowhere left for it to hide. Its majestic head and horns, no artist could... With one of those lines, there's no other? At the end of the prophets. There's nothing other? There's nothing other? So that statement is other. OK, so good luck in your conversation with the other this week. And then maybe next week we can go in.

[81:20]

Oh yeah, next week's going to be quite a meeting. Next week, let's try to have a meeting, OK? The weather forecast is sunny in the Bay Area. Please come to class no matter what. Very important. And maybe we can talk about the third verse in prayer prediction. Thank you for everything. Your intention equally extends to every place where the true narrative comes from.

[82:18]

@Transcribed_v005
@Text_v005
@Score_82.23