Anyway, a neighbor and friend of the monastery, Helen Siegel, is here tonight, and for a number of years she has spoken to my classes, especially this Women in European History class, because of the events that she lived through and because of the person she is, both a wife and mother, and an artist, a great note, and she's never failed to... bring my students to, I think, a new understanding of the times and of themselves. So it looks like heaven is also going to get in on this thing. So how would we go? Thank you. I'm delighted to see all you ladies and some gentlemen. Another team. I hope you all love this thing. I'm not a great speaker.

[01:03]

And it's mostly emotional stuff. And, well, it happens even in this country. This country, which is a country for young people. Put up your hand if you can't hear, that's all. I'm not sure that people are going to hear you in the back. Can you hear in the back? Can you hear me? Yes. The Nazis tour by Austria in 1938, 1938. And at that time, I was 14 years old.

[02:04]

And I had been in a private school, in a gymnasium, a prep school, high school. And it was run by nuns. And it was a very small school. Can you still hear me? Seven kids to a class. We had lots of contact with the teachers. And before I went to that school, I went to an ordinary open the school run by the government, and it was a very social set up in that country.

[03:10]

There were communists and socialists, all kinds of different people who had their children there, Jewish kids. The priest came in. and gave us a religious education. The rabbi came in and took care of the Jewish kids. And there were very few Protestants. But I must have had a big mouth. And apparently wanted to do something. And they got angry at me. And you know, Every little desk had an inkwell, and you had the pen. You put your pen in the inkwell, and then started to write. Everything was handwritten. And it was a pretty good school.

[04:13]

It was very mixed, very different people from different backgrounds. And I think my parents felt really happy with the situation. Except one kid got a pen, very angry at me, and pierced me with his pen. And they got scared. And they thought she should go to private school. And of course, their private school was very interesting and very good. And I admired the nuns, you know. There are special rules, you know. The shirts had to be to the elbow. And the skirt had to be at least over the knee. But otherwise it was very nice to deal with it.

[05:17]

And I admired them, you know. And I had the difficulty at home when I told my mother she has to make the shirt a little bit larger because the nun would like to have that. So the nun was more important than anyone else, you know. It was interesting. Anyway. And in 1934, killed their chancellor in our theater. And, of course, it was sort of a little, you know, we didn't know that the Nazis had already come in, but they were already on the ground trying to take advantage of the place.

[06:27]

My father couldn't come home for a long time, was in the police. And we didn't hear anything from him, and we were scared of anything. But this was eventually settled. He came back. And it more or less became dead. Nazis took over. And the private schools with nuns taken care of, or priests taken care of, they were closed. And we were sent back to public schools. So we had a good impression of what the Catholics did in their schools. We had to go back and stand up for our rights, you know.

[07:39]

Now, when I told my children, they said, how did you do that? I said, well, we behaved like we used to behave before the Nazis came. And we were standing up against them. And we had our little groups. And we met in different apartments with different friends. And there were movies that not more than two or three people could stand on the corner on the park. But our parents were very understanding. They thank God us to do all this. I only realized after I was here in this country, and when one of my kids had taken a course in the Philadelphia College of Photography, and she had to come home with a train that she wouldn't be here by midnight.

[08:52]

I got scared, you know, and I was listening if the train would come in. And then he had to take to Troy, and it took him over an hour to get back. But only when I had kids, I realized what my parents must have gone through, you know. And they still gave us permission. They weren't much on the other side. But they gave us instructions. They said, Don't stand in front of the window. Just look from the side, you know, if they're coming or not. And then they said, well, by then you are stupid. You don't understand what they want. It wasn't easy for us because we wanted to appear bright and smart. But you had to play along.

[09:56]

And then Whenever you stepped into a store or something, you had to say hi a little. Fool them, you know? Anyway, it was good. My brother got beaten up because he went to church on Sunday, and we both got arrested. But they let us out again, you know. And the trickiest thing was that we were trying to help some Jewish people we knew. People who were kids too, you know. And we brought them home and were hiding them. And that could have meant that, you know, if they get a hold of us, that they would also transport us somewhere to a camp, you know.

[11:15]

Anyway, the tragic thing was the closing of the school. And we had a good priest. He was a good preacher. And he gave us a treat. And I was about four years with him, my brother, too. It was very good. It was like going through analysis, you know. And eventually, I think the church, the parish, got scared that he would get in trouble. So they moved him from Vienna to Upper Austria to a spa. And, you know, the nuns also had to move. They also had to go to different things.

[12:17]

They had to go into nursing in different areas. And one of them was very good. I remember I visited her and she helped my brother who got wounded. He was in fighting Lord of Trieste against Tito, who was against Hitler. And he got badly wounded, but he made it over to the Americans. And the Americans in the beginning were very reluctant to come and help us. Also, we hoped that they would. But, you know, there was no oil or anything real good. A little bit of gold, but hardly. And shoes, you know, why the heck should they probably let their heads fall for the shoes, you know?

[13:23]

Anyway. The Russians actually were a little bit quicker, and they came from the other side, you know, from the east. And, well, we left this way, and we had to be careful, and we took advantage of all the smartness. that, you know, that was a good joke by the Jews, you know, in the country, in the western country, where they were bringing the cows from their arms in fall, and they were going to the main street in the village, and they were... leaving all their, what do you call it?

[14:37]

They relieved themselves on the road. And the Jews said, every time you step in something like that, save a little. What? I mean, it was the only way they could to respond. Anyway, it was very scary for them because they knew they were transported off. Everybody had to wear a yellow star. It wasn't like in Holland. where the emperor put on the Holy Star himself and walked around. No, it doesn't that work. The Dutch were not so courageous. The British king did that. Anyway, lots of people were scared, you know.

[15:48]

I mean, they had no right to really change the whole system. And some of the Jews also... they probably would have had the possibility to leave the country. They said, this is impossible. We are born here. We are Austrian citizens. How they can do this to us here now? We took them apart to really get this understanding of this terrible idea of destroying a race. because he wanted to have a pure race, people who were tall, blonde hair, and had blue eyes. Germans, Aryans, you know. But nobody was an Aryan. I was South Slavic.

[16:50]

I had my grandparents from my mother's side living with us. We had a Czech newspaper every day. who spoke in another language, two languages. And the whole Austria was very mixed, you know. My parents were very fond of the last emperor, emperor, who died, you know, after the first kill of French children. I was born on his birthday. That's August the 18th, 24th. And they told me that a hundred times, you know, how special I was. But then my mother-in-law was against the marriage because I wasn't nobility.

[17:56]

And she was German. And you know, the Germans were very welcoming to Hitler. And he got there in 32, 33, and he ruined all the synagogues. You know, all the glass was split all over the country. And the people took it. It was very interesting that not too many were standing up against him. But of course, looking back, we learned a lot. We learned that under suppression, you actually get better. Your character is better.

[18:58]

And if you just look at the Jews, how they were suppressed. The intelligentsia, the most smartest people, were Jews, musicians, poets, writers, artists. And maybe? It's not so bad an idea to have a very restricted situation, you know. But of course you have to work against them. And you have to tell the kids that's impossible, you can't do it. Now, the most important thing with children is that you teach them to think. You know, what you have taught them from the beginning on, that don't worry, God is with you.

[20:15]

God made you. He's the best mother you can think of. And of course, if you had good parents, I think it's easier for the kid to understand. And what you put into them in the beginning probably stays with them for all the time. And they're willing to stand up against you. It's more difficult in a society we have here where everything is sort of supposedly everybody is like another person, alike. Which isn't really true. And the so-called freedom to choose the right thing or the wrong thing, or the good thing,

[21:25]

the beautiful and the nuts of wood. It's not really clear. You have this a little bit here. And when I came in 1952, when everything was over in Europe, and we were living in a little house in a little street in front of here. They were pushing out the blacks because they were black. And so the white ones could get in, you know. And of course, they had brought in the blacks to use them as slaves and servants. And where was the equality? And the temperature was 112 in June.

[22:34]

Your kids were still in school. And there was no pool or a place to refresh, you know. So what they had to do, they had to open my firelight to cool off. And I said to my husband, listen, what I hear about the school, it's pretty bad. Let's go back. This is not for us. This is not for our kids. No, no, he wanted to stay. I think he probably wanted to cut himself off from his family. thought this was the land of the opportunity. But is that really what we want to live in, a land of opportunity?

[23:37]

I think the opportunities are in every person. What choices he's going to make, what he's going to do. lots of trouble in Philadelphia between. And that was already after we had finished up with Hitler in Europe. No, I mean, I have no regrets that I came here. There was no good reason for me to come. I had a job. I had work. But I thought the system for the kids was better on over there.

[24:53]

The schools, You could have gone to the university and get two and three PhDs and never paid a penny. The schools were free, and the schools were good. And the kids were encouraged to be imaginative, not just to fill out forms or do something. they expected of you. Well, it was good. The kids are still here. I lost one when he was 13. He died on leukemia. All this was a very good experience.

[26:02]

I had a good doctor who allowed me to take him home, and he died at home, which was almost like Europe. We in Europe were not kept away from sick relatives or old relatives. The families were closer. It's much smaller, you know, and the school's very excellent. But, um... It's good to get out of trouble, you know, in your life. And you can make something out of it. You can turn.

[27:03]

You have enough brain to see that this is wrong. And you do it differently. The kids were, the oldest, was six years old. And he went into a monastery in a school around Bananas. And she called me in and she said, we're very concerned. Chris is going to have an accent. And I said, well, send me home a note so I can, you know, if he misbehaves or if he doesn't do something right, so we can help him.

[28:14]

She said, you should give up the second language. I said, well, I don't think it's such a good idea, you know. When he gets into high school and he picks up Greek and Latin, he already has an experience of another language. Well, she was very disappointed and, you know, I felt sorry for her. I'm sure she was very proud of the English of her country to be pure English. You are, you know. Anyway, but the kids know that anyway. Tommy, the second one, who was walking with me on the street, he said, Mom, do you know that you have an accent?

[29:19]

I said, do you mind? He said, no. Now, he studied in Vienna and he only paid $100 a semester because he was a foreigner and he understood everything they said. And the others who traveled all the way to Turkey and to Scandinavia and all over the place. It wasn't dated. Why should you limit your kids, you know? Give them the break to see other people and see how they live and what they do. It's very important.

[30:20]

just keep them isolated to a point. It's nice to keep them quiet so they can think and can make drawings, paintings, carvings, all kinds of things. We had The place in the country was part of an old farm. It was about 45 miles from Philadelphia. And everyone had a little garden, and they appreciated the animals and the green stuff, the plants. And when I compared them to the other kids in the city, I saw the difference. you know, how they were reacting to nature.

[31:27]

And it's good to give them both. We had the museum and all the interesting things in the city. We had the opera, the theater, the ballet, and, you know, we took them there and they drove us nuts because they're imitated. Kids are always to imitate parents, and the more freedom you give them, they take advantage of it. I was making a cake, and Philly was three years old. I made the cake, put it in the oven, and he said, Mom, you forgot to bless the cake. How observant they were, you know? And I think it's very important what you give them.

[32:31]

And probably, you're old ladies, you're probably going to have some kids someday. And it's great if kids are well-educated and they can stand up against. Anyway, some of the Jews were saved. When I was studying at an Italian poet art, Professor Oswald Hartl had his office beside the school, and the school he rented because the main building, you know, Vienna is arranged in circles, and the main building apparently was too noisy and too destructive for his tapes, so he rented this place.

[33:48]

It was a beautiful baroque building with an interior courtyard. And on the other side, there was a cellar where they had wine, which they had brought up from the cellar. And when we got bombed in Vienna, that cellar was bombed too. And it was interesting how the people reacted, you know, the people who were living there in the area. We were bombed twice. And all our stuff got down to hell. But again, it was a good experience, you know.

[34:51]

We were so lucky that none of us got really hurt, that we still were alive. And how people react to situations like that, you know. Everything is gone. Now I have nothing. Now I am a beggar. Not that I approve of this. This is all wrong. To destroy other people's living situation. It's a very good educational thing.

[35:57]

I hope it never happens to the Americans. Of course. I don't know. Maybe they should go in the ghetto and see how other people live. Maybe they should cross the border of the country and see how hard they exist. Maybe they could change certain things, you know. I took friends in Philadelphia and my kids who had dinner to check in the Chinese area and it was winter. And when we came up, there was snow. We were full of good food. And there were people sitting on the heating plates, you know, and begging.

[37:07]

And the kids said, why aren't they sitting on the floor? I said, they're really poor. They want some money. They hope to get some money. You know, it's a good experience. I mean, you don't have to see everything is beautiful. I'll be grateful for what we have. God is in everything. You know, He is in every person. No matter what He is, if He is red or black or white, He made the person. And God did see Him. And all he created. So, you know, I was really very fortunate that we had all this experience.

[38:08]

Grandparents on my father's side had a farm. And we had to take a train for about an hour going north from wherever. And then they picked us up with the bagging and the horses. And we had to go another 45 minutes until we got there. We had the woods, we had the fields, we had all the beautiful land. You know, and they enjoyed that too. A small village was not far away. There's a little church there.

[39:30]

There was a little store in that village, and he was a Jew. And he was selling nails and stuff that needed for doing some repair and a little bit of food he was selling. And they were able to hide him. He got away. I was amazed. Everybody knew that tea existed, that tea was big. Now, we brought home people in the apartment. When you entered the apartment, there was a hole. not a very long haul, but with a built-in closet, you know, where my father used to hang up his uniform and stuff.

[40:52]

And sometimes they knocked on the door, the SS, when I sit at three o'clock in the morning, And if you weren't quick enough to open, they broke in the door. But then they saw the uniforms, and they retreated. But we were hiding people. We were hiding them. Once my mother thought up an idea she had a steamer, you know, if you have the cold and you can inhale the stuff. Then she said, you take her into your bed. And we had those big cushions.

[41:55]

They were feather beds, enormous, you know. And we were both covered with that. And I had to cough all the time. Well, it's important to think of solutions to immediate problem. And we have lots of those problems. And people followed us. And people apparently got news from other people who were hopeful that they might get a half a kilo of coffee if they turned somebody in.

[42:57]

It took until April 1945 until we got the lead of them. Vienna was a cutting footprint, you know, American, French, Russian, and the English people. But the greatest concern we had

[44:19]

made about our closest people or people we knew, that something would happen to them. And of course, we helped lots of people in small ways. But it was a war. Do you want to take some questions? Do you want to take some questions? Sure, if there are any questions. Well, I'm sure there are. I've got one. Remember the time you talked about when you had those names in your Latin book and you were going home? Did I tell you that? No, I had a list of friends that were in the army, you know, fighting the war, and that we were writing to them.

[45:26]

And... We kept in contact, letting them know that there was still a Latin book. And when I had this list in my Latin book, and when I came home from school, opened the door, and then there was a hallway, and then there was another glass door. I heard my mother talking in a very loud voice, just not like she usually did. I said, oh my God, there is something going on. And then I told myself, you better keep cool, you know, don't lose your head. And she wanted to remind me that I had this wish in my book. So I carefully took it out. And we were living...

[46:30]

on the fifth floor. Walk up. There was no elevator. But in front of every door of our apartment was a mat. And I thought, I'm going to leave this under a mat. So the third floor took my time, you know. Would you show me where? My father told me that. Always be slow. Take your time so that you can think, you know, and ask all kinds of questions. Most of all, think that you're stupid. You know, it's not that easy to be stupid if you are smart. It's a trick, you know. You want to be smarter. It's good to know that if you have an enemy.

[47:32]

So he shortened the tank here. And then I gave him my scoop and there's nothing in there. And then I said to him, don't you want to come in and have a cup of coffee? You know, it was outside of the apartment. No, he wanted to sort of be managed to him and fool him, you know. What an idiot. No, it's, you cannot always kill people and, you know, Be against them. You are against about their ideas.

[48:36]

But as a person, you don't know how that guy was brought up. He was brought up probably as a Nazi to kill people and most of all Jews. So all over the place. I mean, you have it in other countries too. Even in the early stages of Christianity, anti-Semitism was very strong. And Jesus, what a Jew. Christ is a Jew. Do you have some other questions? When you came to America, did you just come with your husband?

[49:41]

Pardon? Did you just come to America with your husband? My husband was German. And I think he came from a very wealthy Nazi in pressed family. They came from the Sudetenland. If that means anything to you, it's a part of Czechoslovakia. The Germans took away from the Czechs after the First World War. And they made beautiful stuff. They made tablecloths woven with pattern exceptional beautiful stuff and they had people they paid piece work they made certain pieces and then they got paid for it and very poorly paid most of them died on what was it tuberculosis

[51:00]

And I think he must have realized to a point that they were wrong. And I met him in Vienna. He was three years younger than I am. And he was, I think, 18 and hadn't finished high school. Also, they had plenty of money. And they had cooks and servants and for the kids, some maids, you know. And they sent him to Vienna. He had an aunt there.

[52:03]

Baroness von Fuchs' nobility. And I don't see she was terribly interested for him. She was not very... I think, you know. I mean, he had to sleep there in her... It wasn't really a castle. but it was a pretty beautiful place across from the imperial palace in the center of Yemen. And he was a poor kid. And he had no clothes. I gave him shirts and pants for my brother. And then I was working. in the American part of Vienna, in the general hospital.

[53:09]

You know, I had already graduated from the academy. And the Americans gave for this cat food. You know, I don't know what it was, beef food. I gave him some of them. And then I got tickets to the opera and to the theater, you know. And we were in a group together with Brother David, a monk here in Ithaca. And he wanted to study art, my husband.

[54:17]

Theo was his name. And David was very good to him. He was trying to He was trying to bring him in the church. And we had some Jesuits who had different groups, you know, for writers, artists, visual artists, and for musicians. And we connected, you know, we got to know each other and know other people. And brothers David's mother, who used to live in the northern part of Vienna, in Quentin, she invited us on Saturday afternoon for playing the rosary and for a dinner. And, of course, we took care, too.

[55:22]

And that's the way we got to know each other, too. communicate. And he lost his citizenship, his German citizenship, because the Germans lost the war. But he could have had the Austrian citizenship. But somehow he was interested in this country. He thought that was the opportunity of his life. he wanted to go here. And there was a cut-off date. I think it was May 30th or something like that, 15. And he got a job at the Academy of Finance in Philadelphia, teaching techniques.

[56:27]

and Brother David had started out as painters at the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna and then they were sort of disappointed either about their own product or about what they saw that other people did at that time. It was a very surrealistic time and They both changed to conservation. You know, restore old pictures, old sculptures, and old stuff. And Vienna was a good place. I mean, when you walk through the city, they fell with the old stuff. And people had to learn how to fix it, you know. People came from Italy and, you know, where all the good stuff was.

[57:29]

And it was very educational, very good. And when he came to this country, people had bought all kinds of stuff and didn't know what to do and didn't want to draw it out. So he was very much wanted. And they said he was the best restorer between... Boston and Washington. And then after he got his job at the Academy of Finance in Philadelphia, he wrote me a letter and he said, I have a job now. It's very good. Everything is going very good. And if I would like to marry And he wants kids. He wants to have children.

[58:33]

Lots of men want to have children, but when they get the children, they don't know what to do with children. Well, it was very good. I had eight wonderful children. Wow. That was very good to me. That was good. Seven sons and one daughter. And she is now a profession in Vienna, teaching architecture. And the guys all over, they were just now in Europe. at the Marathon. They had a Marathon around here on to Vienna. And they had a very good time with the relatives over there and the director.

[59:39]

And my brother called me and he said, the kids are very well behaved. I know. They all liked it. And I said, when I talked to him on the telephone, to the kids, you know, I said, did you improve your German? They said, no. They all want to improve their English. No, I think it's good to figure out. God do what he suggests. I mean, he gives you everything. Not necessarily what you want, but he gives you what you need. And I made lots of designs for jewelry and all kinds of things, you know.

[60:46]

And I thought, we are like a semi-precious stone in God's hands. You know, he has to polish us until we get to the right shape and really perfect, or whatever he calls it. God is the greatest artist. He made all this. How did you manage to have such a good career with eight children? I know that's a question that's lurking back there with some of my students. They had such a career in your art. How did you manage to do it all with so many children? Well, I was very fortunate. You know, I was studying architecture and design. And in the beginning of your art curriculum, they give you all the possibilities of different techniques and possibilities.

[61:52]

But then, you know, I had gone to the Albertina. The Albertina is a museum that's almost built on the Imperial Palace. It has the early books, the Inca-Nabels. They're all cut in wood and, you know, beautiful things. And so often as I had time, I went there and looked at it, and I thought, this is great. I would like it. If I could do that, I would love to do it. And I never really aimed for architecture. I aimed for design. But when I was a little kid, five years old, counter-swimming board, there was There are fields of watering on my grandparents' fields.

[62:53]

My mother invited her for tea in town. And then she said, go show the contents of your paintings. And she said, oh, this is beautiful. Are you going to be an artist? I said, yes. Well-known. And this is a very good one. I got, you know, my parents took us on the weekend for hikes in the country. And when it was raining and snowing, they took us to the museum. And the students, it was terrific. It's a beautiful museum. It has beautiful stuff and great pictures. and point it out. Those are well-known people. No, I picked up the well-known. Anyway, but that's how it works.

[64:03]

And then, you know, when you're 18, you meet the matura, like a lot, you know? And that entitles you to go to the university, to an art school, or to... musical, whatever you want to start. And my parents said, go to the university and become a teacher. Teachers are very respected over there, and they are well paid. And I said, I want to be an artist. And she said, and how, and you know, the parents said, And how are you going to support yourself? And that he told me all kinds of silly stories that, I don't know, whoever had to play the organ on Sunday in the church didn't even have a suit.

[65:06]

He had to borrow the suit from his brother. Anyway, I didn't say anything. Behind the bag, I knew where the date was, when they wanted to see the portfolio. And I got my portfolio together, and I went in. They had a professor sitting on a long table. And they looked through, and Herdl said, I want you. I thought, holy smoke, what does he see? And, of course, I was delighted and posted it on Saturday in the entry hall of the school. And, well, I guess my parents didn't say anything.

[66:13]

We have to do this in a nice way. Well, he thought it was good. I told you he had rented this Sisturgeon Monastery, and his office was beside the school building, beside the school rooms. And I worked for him with him. And he was apparently a Catholic, but not a practicing Catholic. But once I designed something I think it was some case or something.

[67:20]

I don't know, I forgot what the term it was. And he came and looked over my shoulder and he said, Wow, who made that? The Holy Spirit? So he was definitely something, you know. It was very interesting. And then he was good to choose. He had a couple of girls working for him, and often he said, could you take her home? You know, he was definitely not in the system. And that was, you really had to be very careful what you said, what you did, if you turn somebody else in, you know.

[68:29]

When we got warned, he came in, in this big room, which probably was the refectorial today. Monastery, original. And he was standing there and just thinking probably on something. And suddenly we said, Roelaine Hasenberger. Hasenberger was my maiden name. Since you are born down and maybe your family doesn't have or anyone has no place to go to, Why don't you bring them in? And I said, oh, thank you. No, no, we already have found somebody who's helping them. And that was, you know, we had those big boards where we were drawing on them. And there was somebody sitting on the other side.

[69:35]

She also had a big board. And her father was in there. And she was really angry. And she said, he never said that to us when we got born down. I said, oh, wow, he probably didn't know. No, no. And she said, I'm going to turn it both in. I said, what? What for? You know? For a... And that's what people think. Maybe there's two hours an hour. If anyone wants to go to Compton, those are wrong. You can still feel there. You've got a couple of minutes. There's others who'd like to stay here and draw closer and ask them some questions. I think some of us could skip them.

[70:36]

Obviously, Brother Gabriel might have to go. The services is to, you don't need books or anything, you just listen because it's by memory. Give a little bit of a break here and make a choice. Thank you for your attention. If you want to look at some of the things, come back and we'll look at the prints when you're done. I definitely want to do more. We want us to do this too. I bet. We'll be right back. Okay. Now, anybody else that slept with that? Come on, move on. So, Helen, did she turn you in and the professor? I think I'll sit down. Did she do that? Did she turn you in? I don't need something. She just wanted to scare me. What angered her was that he said that.

[71:40]

She was jealous. Yeah. Well, it was a very difficult situation. I mean, what you most of all had to do, you had to constantly think, I'm going to say something that's hurting another person. And I turned somebody in and hurting me. But the same was hiding the shoes. You had to be very careful. If people knew that, you know, can people watch you? They were very careful. I think in some way, they were hoping that what Hitler had promised them, a better life, a chicken in every part. You know, they had been through the depression.

[72:43]

They were poor. They had no food. You know, I carried flowers from my grandparents all the way down to, you know, for Jewish people to eat. You had to do this. It was an exceptional time. And the way you... While willing to react to something like that, it either makes you feel, thanks heavens, that I didn't forget him, or my God, what did I do? Did I turn him over to the blast of his head? Where did you hide the Jews? And how many? How many, how many, and where did you find them?

[73:49]

Well, I usually only could bring up one person at the time. We had to have a group, you know, who were connected. And they left with you? Did they left with me? They were here, then they were staying for a while, and we were pretending that it was family, you know. And then they moved on to other places. But I think the thing you are most afraid of is fear. And you tell yourself, keep fear out of your life, you know. Ask as normal as possible.

[74:53]

You know, what really was funny, after we were bombed and the whole thing was broken down, it was a sacrifice. And the next day we went to church. And people were laughing behind us while they were talking to each other. Look at those crazy people. They had nothing. And now they go to church. But, you know, God wants us to stand up. What did the church people say? Was there any voice of the Christian churches? Was there any, in Austria, was there any sense that the Christian churches took a stand about Nazism, or did they go along with it? Well, we had hardly any Protestants.

[75:59]

There were very few. They were in very small groups. But the whole country was... And that goes back a long time, you know. And I think Maria Antoinette, she was one of the empirical people. Her son's children was the first one who broke this autismism in the country. And, you know, sort of equality was there, no reason to. And, you know, we had an awful lot of university teachers, professors, musicians, writers, really intelligentsia, who were Jewish.

[77:03]

And they were all born in the country. And they were all things simply. And some of them really didn't get it, unfortunately, and didn't leave. Of course, it was also a matter of money, you know, if somebody had enough to get up, at least to Switzerland, you know. There was a priest that you knew who was killed, right? so that there were certainly some people standing up, not church. Well, the priest we had in the school was a Jesuit, and he gave us a retreat. And then, my brother and I were with him for confession. He was a very good teacher, very outspoken, and taught, very good.

[78:10]

you know preaching isn't easy and it really fired you up you know and then he was from That was South Tyrone, which we lost after the war. He was from a family, 13 kids, a family in the Pustadar. And he studied in Innsbruck at the Jefferson University. and then went to Vienna and studied there.

[79:14]

And he was a good father in Vienna. I remember when I went there. And then his superiors got very nervous because he was so good teacher, outspoken, and they moved him to the western part of Austria, upper Austria. And we were there, my brother and I, visiting the nuns who had also had to move from Vienna. And he came to visit us, and we talked, and then he hugged us, he blessed us, And five minutes later they came and took him away. The SS took him away. And took him to Dachau.

[80:18]

You know, a place in Austria. And not very far from what happened. And he died there. But, you know, we had... exceptional role models, people who really inspired you. And, you know, we were enthusiastic. We were 14 years old. We wanted something, you know, something great. And when I said to him once, I want to be a mother, he said, no, you don't say that. You better go out and tell him what he thinks is the best for you. And he will give it. And then I wanted to become a nun. And that was, I think, 23 years old.

[81:23]

And I went to the non-parent, a Benedictine monastery, and it was off where... sizable, very beautiful, also baroque, and very romantic and lovely girl. And the abyss was old and she liked me, she would have liked me there. But I thought, I don't know, I might not be able to do my artwork. At night I have to wash the floor. To go back to your artwork, you never quite got to the point as to how you managed when all the children were young. I was an obsession, a contradiction.

[82:26]

That's the answer. And then I got this I called her this letter that he wanted to marry me, and I thought, well, maybe I should do that. And, of course, that was much worse than the Norwegian. He was a poor guy, but I felt sorry for him, and I married him. And he was German, you see. All those things I haven't really calculated. Very different from the Austrians. The Austrians are much more emotional, you know. How can you be an artist and not be emotional? You have to put the fee on your thing. It's good if you have a brain.

[83:29]

But the heart, you have to have the heart too. And God gives you the heart. And he wants you to think of other people. And he says, if you think of other people, you are really happy. I can say that I'm not happy. I have really great kids. And one of them died. He's already in heaven. Was it good? person. Within a year after the drug closed him, he really matured and the doctor was good. The doctor was a Jew. He allowed me to take him home and he died at home. And you know, it was a tremendous experience for the whole family. We went when people were sick, older people were dying.

[84:33]

We were there, we saw them. And we saw them when they were put on board, you know, not involved. No, it was a very different culture where I came from. I think we have to stop. It's 8.30. They're going to close the monastery. But I think Helen would invite you to come up and to have a look. All right. But especially some of the students from Elmira College won't be around, so they'd like to look at it now. And then perhaps the students from Radical Encounters can take their time with it. I think we'll have Gail... walk it up for the night. It should not be left just sitting around here. Helen, we can't thank you enough for sharing so much of yourself.

[85:37]

Thank you. Thank you for listening. Actually, weighing back there, for those of you who have read the fantastic article about Helen, that I gave out to various people. There is the author in the back who also should have a hand. And thank you, Brother Gabriel, for recording it. This was a special recording for her grandchildren. I wanted to make sure it went well. I never chose them to do that. You don't know what kind of situation did that thing.

[86:38]

So, very good. I don't know if they can copy for the right answer. No, I don't know.

[86:52]

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