Holy Father Antony, pray for us. Before I go on with continuing our study of the life of Antony, I want to go back to a couple of questions that were brought up this morning. I did a little bit of homework, especially in regard to Brother Nathan's question about the distinction between psalmody and prayers. And I went back and checked the references in the life to Antony's praying and and Antony's chanting psalms. And the distinction that I mentioned was borne out when I went and looked at it again. It talks about his praying in certain situations, and at times it becomes much more specific and talks about chanting psalms. So that, for example, there's a description of the monks filling the desert, the famous passage where it talks about the desert became as a city filled with monks, and it describes them as chanting psalms. as studying, as fasting, and as praying.

[01:04]

So somehow praying seems to have a slightly different flavor, whatever you want to do with it. In another interesting place, Antony talks about dealing with the demons. And he says, I was praying throughout this experience, and occasionally I would, and he uses a Greek verb which means literally, throw a psalm at them. So that seems to be a more specific or kind of a subcategory of general prayer, but distinct from the kind of prayer of supplication or prayer for help or support that I was talking about earlier. So for whatever that's worth. I ended the last talk with a quotation from Chapter 7 of The Life of Antony, which I will repeat as a way of leading into what we'll do tonight. I quoted that as a way of summing up what the work of the monk was in Antony's eyes. This is a description of Antony himself.

[02:06]

As one always establishing a beginning, and this notion of starting anew or starting over every day is a recurrent theme in the life of Antony. As one always establishing a beginning, he endeavored each day to present himself as the sort of person ready to appear before God. He used to tell himself that from the career of the great Elijah, as from a mirror, the ascetic must always acquire knowledge of his own life. So that's the starting point. What single-minded devotion to this agenda, this task, brings to Antony is a knowledge of himself which enables him to call freely on the Lord for mercy and for conversion. The transformation that he experiences himself is described by his biographer Athanasius in impressive and graphic terms, which might sometimes seem to lean a little bit too much on Greek philosophy, but which nonetheless speak of something quite genuine in Antony's life.

[03:20]

something which seems to have occurred during the almost 20 years he spent in rigorous solitude in the abandoned fortress of the outer mountain. Now, this passage that I want to comment on is chapter 14 of The Life of Antony, and I'll read you part of that to let you know what I'm basing these comments on. I have to tell you that this is the portion of The Life of Antony which has always intrigued me most. And maybe I build far too much on it. But I think it's really interesting. So that's why we're going to do it. This is the description of his coming forth from solitude. He spent nearly 20 years practicing the ascetic life by himself, never going out, but seldom seen by others. After this, because there were many who longed and sought to imitate his holy life, Some of his friends came and forcefully broke down the door and removed it.

[04:23]

And Antony came forth as out of a shrine, as one initiated into sacred mysteries and filled with the Spirit of God. That's a really important line. Initiated into sacred mysteries, filled with the Spirit of God. It was the first time that he showed himself outside the fort, to those who came to see him. When they saw him, they were astonished to see that his body had kept its former appearance, that it was neither obese from want of exercise nor emaciated from his fastings and struggles with the demons. He was the same man they had known before his retirement. That's 20 years that's passed, so I think that's a rather remarkable statement. Again, the state of his soul was pure, for it was neither contracted by grief, nor dissipated by pleasure, nor pervaded by jollity or dejection.

[05:32]

He was not embarrassed when he saw the crowd waiting there, nor was he elated at seeing so many there to receive him. No, he had himself completely under control a man guided by reason and stable in his character. So that's our base text. Athanasius' awe and veneration of Antony's experience are evident in the very language that he uses to describe this passage from solitude back into rather regular contact with other people. He describes Antony's retreat as a shrine not only in this chapter, but on another occasion. So there's obviously something significant attached to place because of what is happening in that place. And despite other places where he describes it more like an arena for combat, I think this shrine image is quite powerful.

[06:35]

I think we know by now not to regard those two perspectives, arena for combat and shrine, place of holiness, as mutually exclusive, for the place of struggle is also the place of encounter. When Antony emerges from this shrine, and note only after people tear the door down, apparently he himself did not freely choose this, but he did come out, and from that point on, he was available to others as they had need. When Antony emerges... It is clear that not only has he encountered the holy or experienced it, but he himself has realized in himself holiness. Athanasius uses two immensely rich words to describe Antony, and that's the sentence that I repeated in here. They're very hard to translate because they've got a lot of echoes and resonances. The first one is a long Greek word translated here as...

[07:42]

as one initiated into sacred mysteries. But the word in the Greek is the same one which gives us our English word mystagogy. And for people reading The Life of Antony when it was written, that would have all kinds of baptismal connotations related to the mystagogical catechesis given to the newly baptized right after Easter, as well as a whole wealth of religious tradition about people who were involved with attending shrines in pagan times, or language applied to Christian saints. So this term refers to someone who has received the ultimate instruction in the things of God. And that's one way that Antony's period of solitude is characterized. The second word used, which is translated here by filled with the Spirit of God, also means God-bearing. or filled with God, carrying God.

[08:43]

Not only that kind of spiritualized sense, it has a much richer and almost physical notion. So that double sense of God-bearing and also God-inspired language which is usually used to describe the prophets, the Blessed Virgin Mary, here applies to Antony after this experience of solitude. The other thing that's noteworthy is that the effect of this period on Antony is physical as well as spiritual. And that's why that double notion of God-bearing and God-inspired is so important. The other translation of the life of Antony reads, When they beheld him, they were amazed to see that his body had maintained its former condition, just as they'd known him prior to his withdrawal. I think this emphasis on the physical underscores another way of looking at this passage, and that is a kind of resurrectional motif.

[09:45]

We can think of the obvious parallels of a cave and somebody coming forth, Lazarus, Jesus resurrected. And Antony appears with this transfigured physical state, radiating holiness and peace, showing no sign of age or decay, even after 20 years locked in a very small space. I think that notion of achieving a physical perfection free from mortal corruption and from decay inevitably reminds us of a resurrection theme and goes back to what we were talking about this morning, of that ancient, very clear apprehension of the physical dimension of resurrection. I think that's obvious in this description of Antony himself. Underlying the physical soundness and balance was clearly a spirit of deep peace, which Athanasius describes as purity of soul that begins to ring some bells with us, purity of heart, and so on, which was not constricted by grief, nor relaxed by pleasure, nor affected by either laughter or dejection.

[10:58]

Now, I don't think we need to read that... passage as referring to a kind of triumph of will over emotion. I think it's very easy to read that and to get the impression that we have a very cold character here who's kind of bottled all that up or set all that aside. In fact, I think the point of this discussion of Antony's calm and tranquility is to state that at the center of his very being was great peace and great wholeness and And that this peace and wholeness could endure even when he was assaulted by the needs of others. Because from this point on, for the whole rest of the life of Antony, people are constantly hounding him for healing, for advice. He'd become spiritual father to monks scattered in various communities and is always on the road visiting them. But as it says here, these people could display their elation at seeing him. and he was neither embarrassed by their attention nor thrilled by it, but he was open to them.

[12:06]

He welcomed them, he greeted them, and he took care of them. I think this relates to a common misunderstanding of apatheia, that monastic concept so strong in a vagrious pontus, which a lot of people read and say, oh, I'd never want to achieve passionlessness, no feeling, no emotion. I think that's completely wrong. And I think if we want a definition of apatheia or purity of heart, as we find it in Kashin, this is the place to start. It enables someone not to withdraw from people and to conquer the need for people or ability to deal with people. If anything, it opens one up even more. And that's why the life of Antony is such a beautiful paradigm for ministry of whatever sort. Enough on that. Athanasius explains Antony's state as one of utter balance, governed by reason.

[13:09]

Now, that sounds really Greek, but I think we can do something Christian with it. And the key phrase that Athanasius uses is that Antony now existed according to nature or in a natural manner. And this is the phrase that I would interpret as meaning that Antony was simply being who or what he was created to be, as we talked about this morning. In Antony's great discourse to his followers, which follows very soon after this emergence from the fortress, he speaks of how one can attain spiritual vision or insight. He says that you don't pray directly for it. You don't pray, God, give me spiritual insight. He says, rather, what you do is cleanse the mind and the understanding, which is translated in the early Latin version of the life of Antony as one must have a pure heart. Aha, there we are with cash and so on.

[14:13]

And he also talks about cleansing the soul of all the junk, everything that's there, so that one can exist according to nature. which again the early Latin version renders as remaining in the integrity in which one is born. So going back to the question raised this morning of, is it a matter of kind of knocking aside the old self and putting in a new one? No, it's not. It's rediscovering an original self, which they speak of in terms of the natural self, the self at birth, the original creation. These two... and I think they're twin themes, of purity of heart and the recovery of a kind of Edenic integrity or original integrity, like that of Adam and Eve in the garden, are destined for a rich development in later monastic literature. For I think this notion of purity of heart or soul and return to the state as we were intended to be are as radically significant for monastic life

[15:26]

as is the evangelical call which motivates monasticism in the first place. In one of Antony's letters, which was dictated to a disciple who could write, Antony apparently couldn't write himself, he summarizes the goal of the ascetical life as this, that the whole body may be changed and renewed and be under the authority of the Spirit. This work of total transformation, or even transfiguration, because Antony emerging from this tomb with this almost radiant peace and gentleness, I think could be read in a sense of transfiguration, is the work of a life of the discipline and the prayers, as we discussed this morning, of which Antony speaks so often. Again, there's this refrain, the discipline and the prayers, the discipline and the prayers, the discipline and the prayers. And be under the authority of the Spirit.

[16:34]

That's in his first letter. And in the little paperback translation of it, which you probably have in the library, it's page 5. To a brother who asked Antony to pray for him, Antony is reported to have replied, I will have no mercy upon you, nor will God have any mercy upon you. if you yourself do not make an effort, and if you do not pray to God. So the bottom line is, get at the discipline and the prayers, and that will lead you to this state which Antony attains. That's saying 16. Antony's own purity of heart and his return to what we might call a creational integrity mark him as beloved of God. And as Athanasius writes, From the soul's joy, his face was cheerful as well. It's not something he hides or is his own possession.

[17:35]

It's manifest to people who encounter him. A much later interpreter of early monastic experience, the great translator Helen Waddell, who gave us that little paperback translation of some of the sayings, wrote of the desert monks what I think is a beautiful couple of lines. She wrote, It was their humility, their gentleness, and their heartbreaking courtesy that was the seal of their sanctity. It was precisely these qualities, humility, gentleness, courtesy, which characterized Antony and which made him, to quote Athanasius, a physician given to Egypt by God, which is a remarkable phrase. Because again, the picture that people would tend to have of the solo ascetic, here he's defined as a physician given to Egypt by God, who's like a kind of spiritual country doctor.

[18:40]

Because the whole back part of this life is Antony making the rounds, taking care of people, or people coming to him with every conceivable need. And that is only possible after this business of transformation and solitude. He's also a teacher given by God to us, who catch a slight glimpse sometimes of what Antony saw so well. Another saying attributed to him reads, Abba Antony said, I no longer fear God, for I love him, for love casts out fear. Now, that tempts me again to start in with Benedict, but I'll save that for later again. I think the point here, and maybe a good way to round this off, is to say that in Antony, as in Benedict or in anybody else, we find that the end of the monastic life is always the same. The end is always the end, no matter whose means we follow as our example.

[19:47]

That's all I have formally to say about Antony. There's more to say, but I don't know if it would... do any good for me to keep on obviously this goes somewhere in the desert tradition in the sayings which all of you've read in Avagrius who kind of systematizes a lot of stuff which is implicit in Antony and I'd be happy to talk about those if you want but maybe it might be best to do that by way of question or you're sorting out where you see connections or we could talk about Antony more whatever you'd like to do answer to this question. One of the conditions to reach that purity of heart is to cleanse the brain. How do you do that? Well, I think Antony again would come back at you and say the prescription is very simple.

[20:58]

It's the discipline and the prayers. Asces, ascetical life, and the prayers. Now, he does break that down in a couple of places. He has some lists of what a monk ought to do. And I dug those out when I was trying to find an answer to Brother Nathan's question. He says, the first thing a monk ought to do is give heed to himself. Train... Well, he says you've got to train yourself. And this is the way he says to do it. He says, first of all, you know, the standard business of the vigils and fasting and so on. Then he says manual labor. Then he says give alms, which I think is very interesting. Then unceasing prayer in private. And then he talks about the memorization of Scripture. Now these are his prescription. Now, obviously, it's not as easy as going down the list and saying, I've done one, I've done two, I've done three, bingo, I've cleansed my mind.

[22:03]

So maybe there isn't an answer. I mean, this is what he would say, I think. But I think what helps is the fact that he seems to somehow have done it. And so the challenge to us is, okay, where do we go with it? I think something is missing somewhere, you know, how to do things. You have to be able to reach that discipline. How do you obtain discipline? How do you get to be disciplined? You have to be disciplined. Well, I think the ultimate answer is not the kind of thing we'll find in a text. The missing link is something that eludes us when we look at these things. But I keep thinking again of that wonderful phrase that comes up again and again as beginning anew each day.

[23:13]

I think that's a real comfort. You know, it's not a kind of a constant arc up like this. Start over, start over, start over. And the realities are good, good advices. Yeah. Especially in the realities, you know, you just can't say, I made it. Because there's so much in it, in them. And the commandments, and you can't say, well, it seems that I, you know, fulfill more. the tens that I listed, but the Beatitudes, though, it's not a quantity. Quality is more there. Is it like the inner mountain?

[24:17]

In other words, it probably was an actual tomb that the tomb is also symbolic. Well, there are two different things. He lives in a tomb before he goes to the outer mountain. Now, tombs were kind of scary things to the Egyptians, even more so than they are to us. They were always put on the edge of the desert at the edge of the town for reasons of preservation and sanitation and so on. And their conception of the desert was that as soon as you left cultivated land, you were entering a realm which was of a completely different order. then that is civilization. So it's not like just walking out to the country. I mean, you cross that line into desert and you're taking on a whole host of new things, among them demons and the dead and so on. So you find this theme of people going to tombs to fight the demons and to lead their ascetical life turns up pretty often in some of this desert literature.

[25:20]

So there's some significance to that. It's a pretty common motif. It comes up again and again. I remember the thing. I just wondered whether or not. The devil lived. That's where he went off the bike to go. The single-handed come. You have to oust him out of the tombs where he lived. I realized that. What I was thinking was the symbolic thing of the tomb being sort of like our Lord descending to hell. Anthony. going to fight the devil, the exterior devil, and also his only girl who comes out of the tomb, sort of like his resurrection. Going into the realm of the dead. I think you could make that parallel. Like the shrine. Of course, I'm painting.

[26:22]

You got me started painting the picture, or I got myself started, I guess you should say. I'm painting the picture that Athanasius is trying to mold something, even though the thing in itself, I'm not saying it's not a reality, I just want it to be. In that case, I wonder how much of a reality it was, but I guess it is a reality. If you say that's a comet, what's the comet that people... Of course, the Outer Mountain, which is the setting for this chapter that I read, he's not in a tomb, he's in an abandoned fortress. But he was in a tomb earlier. So that theme is there earlier on. Alberto was thinking, this would not be Anthony, because he would say the key to his desire. And we really don't desire holiness. And it's only after we come back again and again that we want something rather easy and short and quick and so on.

[27:24]

So we find that our desire really isn't. As a result, we're not receiving what's been given to us. And one comes back until one reads. And I always think I can get it with a little more effort around the corner, which is another thing. If I read it, I find it can't. But I won't embarrass myself by failing. And so all these things, if I read. Of course, metanoia in the Hebrew sense is to come back and begin again. In the New Testament sense, it's a change of heart. I mean, there's always to start. Square it one and start again. But I think... Well, at least that of Augustine was helping me, it's a desire, and we finally really don't desire something as much as we say we do, which is part of the knowledge of ourselves. Or I desire, I don't want to go through what God would ask me to go through in order to prepare myself to receive it. Or I want it, and then it's mine, but I won't receive it. And I think it's that willingness to be loved and led by God. Again, where I cut myself off from that, I want to do it without it.

[28:26]

to be totally giving myself to God. Which, again, we find out as we go on that we are not really willing to give ourselves over to God. So little by little I begin to, and also that itself is a gift and so on. I think if Augustine's on the desire, at least for me it's been helpful. There's really not a discussion of desire in this work. I mean, that becomes, of course, a big monastic theme that Leclerc has talked about so beautifully. But that's not here. Maybe that's our missing link. This business of desiring it. Working toward that desire. and then what we find lacking hope and ask for God's grace. I wonder if that doesn't fit in here somewhere.

[29:28]

Where is this question? Now I also wonder if there's anything comparable to that in the situation of Anthony in that early period. It probably arises more explicitly later because of the theological discussions which come later. But for instance, the whole sacramental life and grace and so on, not usually mentioned very much. Are they kind of presupposing or is that simply a thing for granted also in the background or what? Well, you put your finger on the big problem that most people have reading these things. You know, Anthony is 20 years in the Outer Mountain. He's not a priest. He's not in contact with a local church. What's he doing for Eucharist? You know, because to us, I mean, that's That's a very important part of our beginning anew each day, an important part of our desire, but he doesn't have it. It's not an easy problem to solve. For a lot of these people, Eucharist was maybe a yearly affair, or for some of them something that they hoped to receive just before they died as viaticum.

[30:34]

But it was not this routine part of their spiritual life. And there really isn't an answer to that. I mean, we just have to kind of look at them and marvel. that they could do it without. Of course, we find somebody like Pachomius where the opposite is true, where there's a very strong Eucharistic community, very strong emphasis on baptism and common prayer. And somehow we've got to put it all together in the end. I wonder if their attitude, Anthony, and those who rally at the Eucharist, wonder if their attitude was more towards the reality of the living God, the Spirit of Christ, within them at all times. Certainly the Eucharist is very unique, very special. It's a very specific way of entering and receiving, entering into and receiving

[31:45]

the presence of the body and blood of Christ. But I think not to the exclusion of that very presence living within the temple. And prayer of early Egyptian monasteries is no longer possible. So he says, Eucharist gets attached to it a lot of pressure and weight as a moment of encounter when the monks are no longer able because of work or outside pressure or pastoral commitment or whatever to keep up this kind of constant dialogue or constant prayers that they were earlier. And he says that's when you find a big emphasis on the conventional celebration of daily Eucharist and that becomes focus of piety because that's really all they have. Now maybe you could take that and turn it around and say that maybe for somebody like Anthony there was this kind of more diffused sense of the presence of God, as well as the business of himself.

[32:46]

And maybe that took some of the pain of not having the Eucharist away. I don't know. It's a problem I can't solve, because there's nothing in here about it. It's an oddity. It's an oddity. Just a discussion last night on exactly what is meant by the idea of forgetting oneself. Does this show up in Anthony at all? He has an odd phrase at the beginning of the thing which kind of bothered me a little bit where he says in one of his lists of what a monk ought to do is he ought to abolish his memory. Now, I mean, I think most of us today would talk about maybe a healing of memory. or reconciliation with things in the memory, but not an abolition of memory. I would relate that, I guess, to maybe this theme of abolition of self. But I think, again, it's one of those things that's very easy to misunderstand.

[33:50]

In this case, he relates that abolition of memory to the notion of absorbing Scripture. And immediately after that comes a line where it says, Antony's memory took the place of books. Since he apparently could not read, he had to memorize the Scripture. And his memory was, for him, a library. And that was what filled his mind and memory rather than kind of the distractions and confusions of his life before. I find that problematic. That's something I have a lot of trouble with. So forgetting self, maybe that's the closest he gets to talking about that concept. But his way of talking about it is jarring, at least for me. But another way to get at that is, as I said, I think the whole point of this is that Anthony finds himself. And maybe it's forgetting some model of the self or some image of the self or misunderstanding of the self.

[34:55]

But I think this description is of someone who is very much himself. I mean, deeply, deeply himself. Not forgetting himself so that he can be filled by something different or not forgetting himself in a sense of a destructive approach to the soul. I think it's very much the opposite. Physical transformation, do you find anywhere in the Vita, the sort of anti-physical business becomes so prominent later? I think there's very little of it. There's some of it about the need for fasting and so on. But I think compared to some of the sayings, there's very, very little. Now, I'd like to argue from that that the healthiest tradition of Egyptian monasticism has a sense of balance.

[35:59]

And I think you can find a lot of sayings that do. But there's no doubt that there are a lot of them which seem to be destructive of the body, just like there are a lot of them which are destructive of women. I mean, this whole business about never even look at or think about a woman because it's trouble. Even the slightest contact is trouble. Antony had no problem like that, at least after this experience. He had women and children and so on coming to him, and that was not problematic for him. So I think there are parts of the tradition which we've got to look at critically and say, this is not healthy. I think the remarkable thing about this work is that it doesn't show some of that extremism that the later ones do once you get past the demon stuff and understand what he's doing there. The attitude toward the body, I think, is quite reverent. is not the aspiration, not your words, but of the tradition that are often, as we're aspiring to the primitive status.

[37:29]

Just curious to remind why they perhaps didn't think in New Testament terms as, for instance, the new creation. That they would sort of make their beginning as we were there. The new creation and the resurrection of Christ being the inspiration and aspiration to which would enter into that and take our strength and grace. motivations were from there? Well, I think that that certainly is the whole motivation for Anthony, the example of Christ and restoration in Christ. But I think we need to kind of be careful about what our glasses are when we read this. In other words, I think that coming from a Western theological background, as all of us are, even if we try to escape some of the biases or prejudices,

[38:43]

I think we tend to think of the first creation as just totally screwed up. I mean, after the fall. And that just knocks it out. And it needs to be replaced by a new creation in Christ. And that's what so many of the Latin writers are looking at. What Athanasius and other Greek fathers do is they look at new creation in Christ not as replacing the first creation, but as perfecting and restoring. putting it back where it ought to be. It's kind of like tying up the first creation and the new creation and completing a circle. Whereas in the West, I think we tend to think of it more as kind of a straight line. Creation, fall, new creation, kingdom. So you sort of hit a goal. I think the Greek fathers kind of tied the whole thing up so that the beginning meets the end and it's resolved. So I guess that's how I would... would answer your question. That sounds abstract.

[39:44]

But I think that was their perspective on the matter. And that's why I think that restoration, creational theme is so important. And relating that to a resurrection theme, I think, works. Remember that Athanasius is one of the first Greek writers who gives us that notion of deification. That the summit of the spiritual life is theosis, becoming like God, being so filled and identified with God that one is divinized. I think that goes back then to the original relationship between created humanity and God before the fall. Hope was the first lively at this time, too. Extremely lively, sort of. I don't see it as a, I don't see it as a neglected, I mean, I just see it back, that whole harkening back, that whole notion of God being bent upright as sort of a, like you said, sort of a bracketing motivation, you know.

[41:01]

It seems to me. I never get the impression that they're trying to return to a state of paradise in the sense of Adam and Eve. I don't get that impression, that hasn't been my impression. That is only held up as an example of the regional goodness and tension that was there, and that that is there. that can be regained. Not that we can go back to paradise because we have something so much better. That is attainable because of that baptism event. This whole Paschal mystery. No, I think that's a good point. Something which I find difficult to

[42:09]

understand is how much of scripture was present to them, which parts in particular, of course you say psalmody, that's, of course, we know that, we hear that. How much of the Old Testament we call it? that doesn't come out of here, does it? Because, of course, they didn't have the books that did not read. Atomy doesn't. Things were memorized. Was it all of it? Maybe not. That's what I wonder. That's, of course, Atomy himself. then it's a pathologist himself who is highly educated probably is familiar with all the structure so things are probably mixed up i mean the two so we probably do not really know how much uh... how far uh... these fathers in particular was

[43:38]

tradition? I guess I think of a couple things. The first one is not to underestimate the power of memory for these people. We live in an age in which our memory has been just about completely destroyed, our ability to learn texts like they could. So it's really hard work for us to recover some of that skill. I think it's much more natural for them because they were used to things like oral epics, oral poetry, oral tales, and so on. You know, Homer wasn't written down for centuries. It was passed on orally. So there's that. Secondly, I think it was expected that monks really did know their scripture. I mean, the commonplace was that the monk was to learn at least the Psalms and the New Testament by heart. That was just the minimum requirement. And then whatever the Old Testament. So they had this stuff pretty much at their fingertips. And when you read something like the life of Pachomius, sometimes it's really slow going, because every other line is a scripture quotation, and sometimes they don't make a whole lot of sense, but they're there.

[44:42]

And that's coming right out of that monastic tradition. It's not like Athanasius, who could kind of edit and say, well, we need a line from the Gospels here, or let's quote a psalm. So I think that that sense of scripture pervaded it, and it was really there. It's a marvel. It's an amazing thing to think about. But I think it was quite a genuine thing. So they must have learned it then before they went into their solitude, because they could read. Some could. I think maybe they overemphasized the illiteracy of somebody like Anthony. Maybe he was illiterate, but he seemed to have had a grasp of Scripture. But when we get to Pachomian monasticism, which is almost the same time, a little bit later... monks were taught to read as soon as they joined. That was the first thing they set them on. If they couldn't read, they were taught how to read so they could memorize the Bible. So they started reading and memorizing psalmody immediately. So they tried to address that.

[45:45]

There's no question about being totally familiar with the Old Testament. All the books, and the Septuagint, And the darndest things that they would remember. They'll pull the most obscure line and use it to support something. And it totally ranged out of context. But they knew this stuff, you know. And isn't it Delivio Orsius that quotes every single book in order to make this beautiful last will and testament? He reinforces his 52 chapters with every single quotation from every single book of the Old Testament. And he wasn't going back and checking his stuff out. He had it right there. It's really, really balanced. And remember for... Like I said, the difference would be that they didn't know the history of Israel, such as we know it in secondary sources, and that whole critical business that we have access to, which gives a different interpretation.

[46:48]

But as the text themselves, I think they found it. Anthony is the first of the species It was his mentor. He's illiterate. And of course, according to the tradition, he went into church one day and he heard scripture that was the source of his conversion. But there's no elaboration on any of the prehistory of that event. And then almost immediately after he makes permission for his sister to dispose of his wealth, he goes into solitude. So, I mean, during this period of time, unless there's some sort of a mystical experience, the revelation, the direct revelation, how does he learn the description that's necessary? It just wouldn't be obstructed, but just throw this out as a difficulty. It says he went from person to person.

[47:51]

Like the YSB. The YSB. Was he in this small kind of community or something? Just outside the city. Yeah, when he was living on the outskirts. And faithfully hearing the scripture in church as well. Perhaps that's our clue. There's also, I mean, that wonderful tradition. Was it Pachomius or was it somebody else who all of a sudden woke up one day and he could speak Greek? I mean, sometimes they gloss over those difficulties with that kind of thing. actually more familiar to me than anything in the life of Anthony for a very curious reason. I went to this seminar that discussed the life of Anthony and there was a skeptic in the group who dug out a fairly remarkable quotation.

[48:57]

I should have got the source up because it was absolutely hilarious. It was written by a British skeptic in the 1800s sometime just lampooning the whole thing and Remember the one line that broke up the whole class of glorious laughter was, Athanasius says that when Anthony came forth, his face shone like the sun. Well, if after 20 years of being in that little cell without washing, his face indeed shone like the sun, then the divine light must have been strong indeed. There we are. Well, his point was, the point of this fellow, the whole thing is a fraud. by Athanasius about a shred of historical truth in it. Now, of course, no serious historian would go that far today. The one thing that bothers me about it, though, is when I'm dealing with ancient texts, I always try to say, now, how does this correspond with our experience? I like to think there's some sort of continuity in how monks experience religious life and prayer and solitude.

[50:01]

And the one thing that really throws me is that both in our modern experience, and it seems all throughout monastic history, beginning quite early, there's a profound distrust of the hermit life, in that you're just as likely to go crazy as obtain physical and spiritual transformation if you lock yourself up for too long. So, particularly when you mention the idea that the inner mountain might be in some way Athanasius' way of describing Anthony's sort of inner state of spiritual integration with himself, or a state of peace with God, which is truly extraordinary. And that is at least as much that, but more so than some physical thing. If you're going to take that step, could you not apply it to the solitude as well and say,

[51:08]

We don't really know how much time Anthony spent. We don't know how important it really was, but that somehow or other he did seem to achieve this transformation. I'd be comfortable with we don't know how much time, but I'd want to hold on to it was really important, the solitude itself. I think your point's a good one, though. I mean, it's a risky business. You don't know what'll come of it. Being a Christian is a risky business. But I think, you know, here's a... case of someone where it worked takes us back to discernment again. And that actual, the time that Anthony spent there, that's held up as a pretty kind of a rare bird type example, in the sense that you don't get a whole heck of a lot of that later on.

[52:26]

You don't get these total type things. You're hard put to find in the early tradition, as far as I can see, where you've had people who were just like, confide for 20 years or something. You always had, there was always a disciple of the interaction, certainly I'm one maybe in the chair for a while and stuff, but even then the, we hear about disciples coming along, you know, pretty soon and stuff like this. And that happens to Antony too, of course. Yeah, right. Yeah, right, and it happens to Antony too, although they seem to suggest that there was that one core time. Although we still would have to believe some food wasn't there something like that. They used to bring him stuff. Yeah, they didn't bring him stuff. But he wouldn't see them. But he wouldn't see them. Yeah, right.

[53:27]

All I'm trying to say is that the hermit life... is different than the life of a reckless. And this is... Very few people were ever advocating that. It was a very medical life, hermit life, which was a lot different. Good distinction. There must have been some priest in the... among the followers of... Otherwise, they'd be living for years without any sacramentals. We talked about that a few minutes ago as a real problem. Apparently, they did, or at least Antony did live for years without Eucharist. But very soon, almost immediately, you begin to find evidence of priests in hermit communities or loose communities.

[54:32]

And very quickly that changes. But these pioneers, like Antony, did seem to have a bit of distance from sacramental life. It's hard to understand. It is hard. You didn't need it. Maybe. We all need it. We do. Except when Bishop Athanasius was there, it's likely that there were hardly any priests to administer the sacraments. I think that's probably right. I can see how, and they're all so holy, they didn't need to go to confession, but I think they would need the Eucharist to change the way. was that he wasn't raised for many years.

[55:35]

What happened to Subiaco? He, tonight, has descended to the sink for his supper. This is a tough act to follow. I don't sing. You don't have to. Would you pass the microphone? Gosh, well, all right, this could be very funny too, because I haven't sung this song in about 20 years.

[56:36]

It's a bit of a tickle in my throat, but... That won't get you any drink for the night. Water. You know what the lights did? Yeah. That's more. Pierre, do you think you could give me a middle seat? Is that in the realm of possibility? You can find an A. You can work it out. You got A. Let's see. You sure? Kenneth, hi.

[57:39]

All right, here goes. Let's see. This is a song called, my Italian's not too bad on it, but it's a song called, which is very meaningful to me, for many reasons, so I won't go into it because I'll keep you all night. But I'd like to share it with you as maybe perhaps a gift back for a very beautiful gift you've given to Daniel and myself, which is your presence. So I hope it's done well. And if it's not, the thank you is a lot more than I can to where the song comes out. Guardia mare con me bello

[58:46]

. [...] Thank you. I love for you.

[60:16]

Non darmi più dormendo. Thank you very much. A lot of courage to do it but beautifully done.

[61:33]

Does anybody, by the way, have the Paulist edition of the life of Anthony? Or would it be the kind of colorful thing on the couple of days? Part of that big series that they have. What's the picture? It's a picture of Anthony, but it sort of looks like... Psychedelic.

[62:00]

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