Here are some suggestions made, as he says, some other... The following points are not in the order of what I think is their importance, but simply the order in which they occur to me, some ideas. And here, he gives the order of the office. What can we see first? Perhaps with this, as it comes to his mind. And therefore, here is beginning. We have spoken already about this problem yesterday, or I don't know, I remember when. Would it not be good to introduce the custom of people standing or kneeling for a few moments at their place in choir before sitting down? But it's necessary to speak about it again.

[01:02]

We have already discussed yesterday. Okay. Then hymns. This is very important. At the beginning of all offices, including Compline. Compline, how do you say it? Complaint, complaint. This has been done in the due liturgy of the hours. It gives the theme of the feast, or season, or hour, or provides a Christological character to all that follows. And you have it already more or less with exception of vigils. Therefore, and I would say, You are free. You can arrange things as is convenient to your community. And I hope and I think and I am sure that this liberty will not be taken away. But the central authority, the Abbess Congress or the congregation or somebody else will insist in a certain structure. And this structure means the hymn.

[02:06]

Therefore, you could not, with time, for the moment, it's okay. You are free, you can do what you like to do. But with time, you must more or less follow this structure. And I think it is very convenient to do so. Your invitatorium is marvelous. And nevertheless, after the invitatorium, you need some fire. Still, the hymn is what it be. What do you think? The apostle says you must be filled with the Holy Spirit. Therefore the idea of the fifth chapter of today's Ephesians is that the people of God come together in the Holy Spirit singing in psalms, hymns, and spiritual canticles. You do it in psalms, in invitatorium, singing it, awaking, and you do it sometimes in greater vigils, also in canticles of the prophets, and you do it in this special kind of hymn which is poetry, and not only psalm, but a poetry of European

[03:22]

Also American feeling, with rhyme sometimes, with a melody, very short, giving the special intention of this hour, after night. before day, or at sixth, no, first was lost, and so on. And also some Christological impostertation is a Christian possibility. Sometimes it's also Christian, but it's very Old Testamentarian. If you don't say in every hour a hymn, some Christological, some Christocentric element is not there. Here are the reasons. why we were defending the hymn against these bishops and Periti who said, we are praying it always alone. It is meaningless to say a hymn if you don't sing it. Okay, you cannot sing it alone, but we, you can sing it. Therefore, you have no reason to take it away.

[04:26]

Do it with this dynamic element, which is a Christological element, with this poetic element, with this pneumatic element, which is in the hymn in a special way. And again, your intention is not necessary, has been explained in our commission. And after years and years and years, finally a decision was taken by our council, the majority. The Pope gave his last last approbation. Therefore, rightly, you cannot go again back to these problems we have done so long, so long, so long, so long. We must find in a certain way a certain compromise, a compromise which is very reasonable. Therefore, retaining this general structure, and within this structure you are free.

[05:27]

Here would be the ideal, and also Fr. Damozos in the years before he died very often was insisting in this point. General structure for all, but liberty to fill it concretely. And you are free also in choosing the hymn. You can take these Latin hymns. It's difficult today. You can translate it. It's more difficult still. You can take new from the Gethsemane hymnal, which is very big. You can choose the most important, the most convenient. You are not obliged to take them all. Some have been very, very good. All Anglican, old Anglican hymns, terrible hymns of the last century. Translation from the German, very many translated from the German, from good old Lutheran German tradition. with good old and terrible new melodies.

[06:28]

I think that's the one thing that no matter how little sensitivity you have to even to life or anything else, it really comes across that the hymns are inadequate. Therefore, you must seek to create new, but for the moment, I would say, if you don't take them, with time you lose the possibility to use it anymore. Therefore, take at least the best you have. I would say, if you don't find good modern or old hymns in English, take some of the good old Latin. You know so much Latin that you can do that with translations. For example, I am very sorry when you take this marvelous hymn of the Lord's, three strophes, and they're the most excellent strophes. How do you say strophe? Strophe is not there.

[07:31]

Laeti bibamus sobrium et prietatem spiritus. Joyfully we are drinking the sober drunkness of the spirit. Sobria Ebrietas, one of the most excellent motifs of St. Ambrose, of Philo of Alexandria, and also immediately intelligible for everyone today. Sober tranquilness of charismatic renewal. We don't speak about that. Here you have chosen too few. Yeah, it's got to be rather basil. Yeah, I understand. Because he, he wanted it to be shorter. Shorter, yes. Yeah, but it's very, very, very pity, it's a pity. I can understand that he was shortening on some, more or less is okay, but especially in this case here, you did not take the richest point of this old wonderful hymns, original, authentic hymns of St. Ambrose. And sometimes I have taken the book of Guardini, The Spirit of the Liturgy, the hand exemplar used by Gerd Winsen when he was still a student, I think.

[08:52]

in 20, 21. And when, at the end of this book, he wrote, and finally two years later I could see it, after having read this book, I was enjoying in greatest joy, et cetera, et cetera. And then he was give the citation of this verse. A.T.B. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21. Therefore, I would play for the reintroduction of the hymn, not only because that is my personal opinion, but I know in these discussions between Boungini, the congregation of worship of religious Archbishop Mayer, and the Primate, and the same with the Cistercians, It seems to be clear, liberty is remaining for the disposition of Psalms, for the lectionary, for so many points, for the selection of hymns, but the general scheme will insist.

[10:01]

With time, every monastery which made his own office, is invited to present his office to this fraterna correctio of the central authority. Therefore, not today, but tomorrow, after some years, in the next 10 years, you must present this office to Rome. And you will finally not get the permission to use it, from this fraterna correctio, from this brobably correction, if you don't follow the general structure. And it is quite convenient to follow this general structure. It's not so bad. We were fighting for these elements, not so only because it was tradition, but because we are convinced. This is wonderful. I wonder why this was done, because here, when we decided about the office, it was psalms, hymns, and prayers. And that was the office of Mount Saviour.

[11:02]

Yes, okay, okay. But for a vigil it's true then, no hymn. Yes, it's against your own rule. But you are, I heard already, I can understand, you took away some years, last year, I don't know when, the hymn because you said the Invitatorium is the hymn. But that is not true. Your Invitatorium is very nice. And also I found the same in the other monasteries. With the exception of Mount Angel, in every monastery they are singing the Invitatorium today. It's excellent. We are doing the same in my monastery, with a very simple melody. Nevertheless, that is nice, but not nice enough. You need still this hymn. We drafted hymns for some individuals because we had It's the end. Yeah, I know, but that was, you see... You have a hymn, yeah, you are right, yeah. But it's only an acclamation. You are right, it is a hymn, but it's only an acclamation, a larger amen.

[12:07]

I can understand your intention, but no, as in all the other monasteries, in Conception, in Mount Angelus, they are moving from a first draft to a definitive draft. With time you are realizing where are the best elements, and therefore I would say, after these experiments you made, Rightly, according to all the permissions given, it's all in order. Now today, I would say again, a short hymn is sung. The best you can find. In the new liturgia horarum, for four weeks, every day, different hymns. At least, I don't remember, no, for every fortnight. I don't remember, but nevertheless, there are many, many new hymns. in the new liturgia horarum, in the latin text. The old and new of the tradition. The new from the old, there are in the middle age, you know, there are 50 volumes, Analecta Hymnica of Bloomer Davis, in Latin.

[13:12]

There is an infinite mass, how do you say, number of hymns in the Latin tradition. Not all from the same world. Some are awful. Nevertheless, many are good. No, you never did have it in English. I can't remember right now. You are invited and that is a very big problem. All are agreeing, also in G.T. Mani. I was... Father Gersogen was the master of these things, was from the same opinion. The hymns are the most feeble point. We must wait until they are made by a new man, according to our mentality of today.

[14:18]

Perhaps from the Pentecostals, I don't know, from somebody, from somebody. It's very strange in the charismatical groups, they are using so many hymns, but generally from a very, very, very level. Not very good. But nevertheless, they are Jews, because they know it is necessary to speak in hymns. cantantes incoglibus vestres domino singing your hearts to the Lord and because it is so difficult to sing the vigils in every monastery, also in Chiesa Maggi they did not sing the vigils, it's too much reciting or speaking or reading or pronouncing or proclaiming alone, together and so on but the hymn gives this life And also not only on the Sundays when you are really singing the Tideum, no. It's a very good thing. Perhaps you could say the Tideum is instead of the hymns. But then again, I would say, because so many arguments are speaking for the hymns and also this intention of Rome.

[15:27]

I would say, take the hymn because the rule speaks about him. Retain tedium because the rule speaks about tedium. It's one of the most excellent formulations of Christian tradition. And tediate too, after the gospel. It's not too much. On Sunday vision. Oh, okay. The last decision you must take, it's not I. Perhaps I told it already in the beginning for the visuals. We liked to retain the position of the rule, of the entire tradition, Lords and Vespers. Nevertheless, in all the minor hours, we had always the hymn at the beginning, Compline after the Psalms.

[16:29]

No, finally, Bognini and his group said, you cannot Reclaim, reclaim, reclaim, or you cannot put yourself, no, found yourself, no, you cannot base yourself on the rule, because you are changing the rule in so many points, for psalms, for meal, for sleep, for the hour and so on. If the position of hints, in this special case, is more reasonable in the beginning, I think this argumentation is very good. The feeble point is, is the position of the hymn in the beginning really good? And you can say only for modern man, for modern congregations, gathering of people, it is so. If we are singing, we are singing in the beginning. There is no ecclesiastical assembly today which is not beginning with a hymn.

[17:32]

So do it here too. The pastoral reason is here very strong. You could say, for us monks, that is not so important. Therefore, we in our liturgical commission, we made our general schemes so saying, in the beginning or in the end, pro opportunitate, as you like. But it seems that he, the congregation of worship, will change that to have a certain uniformity at this point. They said so already to the Cistercians, not yet to us. No. Can we continue? Yeah, here, myself, I was suggesting the hymns at the beginning because we have nowhere to finish. And it's only after the reading It's only after the reading, not even with the reading sometimes, that you know where you are.

[18:39]

Nevertheless, I would say this argument is feeble because it would be convenient to have antiphons. But if you don't have antiphons, the hymn is more necessary still to know the character of this R. Speaking, a very important fundamental element to know we are now at the end of the night and during the night in the silence and peace we are praying and worshipping and so on. Yeah, like the apostles. Like right now we have no hymns for the apostles. I admire your office, but I must say your office is for me, who is here for three, four, five, six weeks, marvelous. But for one who must for years and years say these offices to the poor, you don't know what you are doing. Apostles, Our Lady, weekday, Sunday, all the same.

[19:44]

As somebody, the master of choir in Mount Engel, said to me, they had the first Orpheus, and we realized we don't have the liturgical year, always only Psalms, [...] Psalms. It is a very old system. The monks did so, only the Psalterium, nothing else. But fifth time they were In the 5th century, in the 4th century, when the liturgical year was growing, they were introducing it, and it is convenient to insist in this whole year. And today we are celebrating this mystery and we stay in the presence of it. And if you don't have a hymn, if you don't have an antiphon, you have still the riches of the Psalms, but the riches are more excellent and greater and more speaking, more leveling. vitally speaking, if you have the antiphons. Changing. Do you think that the hymn also should be really, you know, if we celebrate, if we're doing Advent, or... Yes, yes, ah!

[20:52]

It should be used, it should... Yes, therefore, during Advent, you don't have a hymn in the individuals? You don't have? No, no, no, it's not like that. During Advent, we do have past the time and passionate. We have both elephants and limbs, special for those times. Also for vigils. Ah, yeah, you have special, of course, you have it for the other hours, but the vigils always, it may be allowed to say so, it is awful that during Advent and Easter time you don't have a hymn where you are pronouncing with the joy of a poetical form. glory of the Risen Lord, of His Epiphany, and it is waiting for Him, for His Parosie, and so on. Because some hymns, you see, were suggested like after Easter, but in the text, you know, they were dealing with the whole history of salvation, and for me it was not a hymn appropriate for the time. because I like to hear only that this is the reason or that, because we, you know, some people... And take a hymn, it is true, the hymn for vigils in the Easter time was not very

[22:06]

He was a little bit telling the entire history of salvation, which is not, per se, not absolutely false, because Easter is a synthesis of the entire history of salvation. Nevertheless, by this reason, enduring for vigils in Easter time is no more the old. It's a little bit changed to insist more in this specific value of the resurrection itself. And if you are not satisfied, you take another. You are free, you can choose what you like to choose, but you must have this poetical, joyfully, pragmatic expression of this specific element which you are celebrating. In visions, every hour. Sometimes joining it with the element of the hour, of the time, of the concrete time of the day. So, okay. And then the next, then he makes some remark about the doxology of the hymns, according to Father Damasus, were later additions, so it's not so important, so I think we can go over.

[23:22]

Compline, start like all the hours with the verse, O God, come to my assistance, et cetera. Or you are doing it. You do it. Then the hymn is noted above. It's the new system, yes. In the Liturgy of the Hours there is a little silence for your conscience. I, myself, also think, let's say, axially, it's better for us monks to keep it as it is. I mean, the custom is to read something before talking, or to kind of enter into that, or reading anything in a variety of ways, to say, what's the, you know, what's the reading going to look like? And then the sodomy, and then the scheme of the night. Also, I, I would like very much this reading. and we introduced it in nearly every monastery in Europe in the last 10-15 years, or we retained it from the old traditions.

[24:30]

But experience shows that it is very difficult to find A text which is convenient to dissolve the collations of Cassian and the history of the old fathers, sometimes for modern men are too, it is a lot to say, too ridiculous, too strange. Filled with wisdom, but very strange. like this history which was given on the office portal yesterday about the monks who are allowed to speak only once a year for two years. A wonderful story, but if you hear it, it's a little bit strange. And then if you take Karl Rahner, you are sometimes not agreeing with him. If you take the imitation of Christ, we don't like it very much today. Therefore, Father Raphael found only one possible solution, read Holy Scripture.

[25:35]

And then, after two, five years, we were not satisfied, we took it away, we have nothing anymore. I don't know if it is easy, if it is convenient to take a reading. Nevertheless, why not? But the sayings of the fathers, all are very strange, some, or they are marvelous if you hear them for the first time. Here you must repeat them. And then, after five years, As we say in Rome, it's too much. Then you wish to change. Nevertheless, I am not against this reading, only I wish to say the experience of most of our monasteries shows that it's difficult to find a reading which is very appropriate.

[26:43]

I remember from my visits in Italian monasteries in the last 50 years, when the Italian monks are gathering together in the darkness of a totally dark chapel, and in every monastery reading some verses, five or ten, from the Imitatio Christi. It was not so bad. There are chapters, you can read them, so, by verse for verse, other chapters. But some, you can choose them. Very good, yes. Augustine, somebody else, it must be easy. It was a marvelous, mystical atmosphere. Cardinal Schuster liked it so much. These walls, little walls, small walls, also the sayings of the father sometimes. Therefore it would be possible. And nevertheless, then perhaps after this reading, and also after a short silence, also for examination of your conscience, and so at the end of the day, it's not prescribed in the new liturgy of the hours, but it's suggested, perhaps begin with the hymn, as is now foreseen, the Mülzahn, a short chapter, in the Canticum Simeonis.

[28:09]

Also here, I don't understand. Plays complete reading after the psalms as at other little hours. What do you think? Therefore he proposes to take this reading of the saying of the fathers. 42? I think it was 42. Not in the beginning, but after the sounds, then you don't take twice a reading. Also, when we have it in the dark, then that, with finding the reading, you have to either light a candle or turn on a light or something like that. I think the reading was put before Compline simply to replace the long extra-liturgical reading which we used to have.

[29:24]

It is true. This was only replacing the old long reading, but not reading the chapter in the Compline itself. It was an element of the hour. Nomentum invocatum et supernos. How do you say it in English? I don't remember. You are with us and your holy name is invoked above us and have mercy with us. Here again, I would say, if you retain this reading for your company on Sunday night only, or during winter, it would also be convenient to retain after this reading, according to monastic custom, hymns, psalms, and then a short chapter.

[30:30]

as is today in the Roman office, changing every day. Not always the same. But very, very, very convenient for this all. The same mentality to Ottomino versus Domino. But the reading at the beginning, I feel that it's no longer needed, you know, that was a thing for, for the late comer, or those who were busy, and there was a long reading. Yes, that's true, that's true. And now everybody comes only when the bell rings, you know, everybody. You are right. That is the intention of St. Benedict. Everyone comes. Today it is ridiculous we don't use this form. Nevertheless, here again, with time, the intention of his reading was changing. It is a moment where you, after the, after the the trouble of the day, us sitting there and hearing in peace some words.

[31:37]

I remember when we, in Maria Lark, 20 years ago, 15 years ago, introduced again this reading. We were gathering together in the chapter, sitting there, hearing this reading, or Holy Scripture, or the saying of the Fathers. In a certain way, it was An ideal. But we did not have the patience. It was too much. To change the place from the chapter to the church. Losing time. Then, to hear this reading, stupid. We don't hear it acoustically, also because we become older and older and older and older. We don't hear it. Then, saying of the fathers, huh? And so on. Holy Scripture, we heard too much. All these arguments are not convincing, but these are the arguments of a modern man who is too complicated. Because sometimes, you see, we have a conference or a meeting here, and then we go back... Before a conference?

[32:48]

It's evident, if you have a conference here, you don't have the reading. Here, again, you have the elasticity to change. But if you don't have the confidence and you don't have it, for example, in our constitution it was foreseen that the superior is speaking every day to the community. When I came 50 years ago, He did not do so, only twice a day. But the Lama Zopa, as I remember, liked to speak every day for a very long time to the community, and very quickly also he was speaking too much. The community was reacting against that. Also he was speaking very excellently and so on. You cannot speak every day, but you can read every day a good reading. And there is a certain way is better to do so. And I heard also that the old Bolognese abbots sometimes did it. It is not necessary that the superiors speak every day, but to read is quite possible.

[33:52]

The word of Christ may dwell between you in a very rich way. Verbum Christi habet et in vobis abundante. Abundantly. Never too much. But when the bird is not there, what do you do? I would say you must... Stoke the fire. Stoke the fire, yes. How do you say this? Stoke. Stoke, yes. We say this in German. But I agree with all those principles, but in fact, you see, when... Do it, do it not too long. No, here I would say you can exaggerate. For example, when Fr. Raphael introduced the custom to read the entire Holy Scripture in one year, perhaps 20 years ago, then we were sometimes obliged to hear the Holy Scripture during the entire dinner.

[34:58]

Then the community was, I think, reasonably reacting against that. The principle was good, but the realization was not good. Therefore, we changed to two years, and then things became very convenient. But nevertheless, here, dinner, supper, a short part of the Holy Scripture. Then again, Lord's Vespers. Then again, individuals. A little bit before the, but different kinds of reading before the community, it's not too much. Not too long, but at least, let me say, five minutes. But you must not do it. Only I wish to present it to you according to this scheme. And the fervor, yes, sometimes the fervor is must be kindled again.

[36:06]

In fact, I would also like to see some kind of penitential rite, at least on Fertigas et Memorias before Compline. A few moments of silence, then some form of confession and absolution, as we had it always until the last reform. You don't have here nothing. It's totally to the private initiative. Oh, you are very happy. The same man, you are right. It's very bad, but... No, but I feel that the formalism, and I think people are so unhappy with the formalism, especially from the paternal forgiveness of things. Therefore, you could say, because you have it every day in the Mass, you don't do it in the form of absolution. It's not necessary, it's not prescribed anymore.

[37:14]

You are totally free. You can use official forms, but you are right if this every day the same, nobody was thinking like this. Also, you could say men's concordat voci. You must think about it. But nevertheless, but a little silence, as we did after the reading, is not so bad. The silence in which you are meditating, meditating the reading and then also your little negligences of the day. We have now in Maria Lark the custom. It's not so bad. We have Fespas, this order is not very good, at 7.30 and then free time until 8.30. But it is foreseen that at 8.15 slowly the community comes, one after another, sitting there for 10 minutes in silence.

[38:15]

Not many come because very quickly people prefer to remain the entire half hour free after Vespers in the room where they are concentrating better than to stay there for 10 minutes, then go for 10 minutes in the church. Both is too short. Nevertheless, to stay there for 10, 15 minutes is excellent, especially because we have the very bad custom, excuse me, to go after Fespos, 7.30, not to our room to meditate and to read Holy Scripture, but to go to television, to see at eight o'clock the news of the day, until 8.15. And then some people, this is evident, is remaining to see these marvelous things after the news. And then it's quite better to go to the church and to sit there in silence.

[39:17]

But nevertheless, with the beginning of Compline all is finished. Formerly we had this very bad custom to have the Compline at 7.30. quickly, [...] to go to 8 in the television and then after complete at 8 o'clock the news never finishing until 10 o'clock. Now we changed it. We were realizing you must finish with prayer and not with television. It's the most important element of the day. Therefore, we changed. No, for you, these things are not existing. You are a holy man. Nevertheless, a silence, a silence. And instead of reading also, please. For my feeling, it's not very nice. We had the same certain day. We had not a Comptine at 7.30, we had Pespas. instead of complain, to go to television.

[40:31]

And then instead of complain, to fulfil at least formalistically our duty, after the oration was during the week, the oration of the complain with the benediction. No, no, we changed that. Therefore, also, I would say it is very nice, in a certain way, your Vespers is a complaint. Nevertheless, if you allow me to say my opinion, it would be, because Vespers is an official night of this, and the end of the work day, it's not really the prayer to go to bed. And therefore, I would say, if you take your supper, If you change the time of a supper, you are finishing your work, so far as I remember, at 5.45. Yes. You are finishing your work perhaps 50 minutes earlier, or it's not necessary, you finish, and 10 minutes later you go to fast spot.

[41:38]

After fast spot, perhaps at 7.30, you say you have your dinner, and you have still an entire hour until Kumbhling at 8 o'clock to Kumbhling. We have a practical problem here though. See, the two people are melting. Two people are melting. So two people are away from this fire. But that's not the problem. It's being worse by the fact that the cooks are also in the community. And they say, and I believe them, that while there's a meal in the oven or on the stove, your mind is so concerned by something burning or boiling over. Yes. So if we were then to leave out the two melkers and the cook. For you, it's too many. But during winter you have complaints. How do you do it? We have vespers before dinner. We have vespers at five.

[42:40]

Ah, five. That is for the summer, too early. The summer is pretty short. Ah, yeah. Oh, here, you are right. If you have it during winter and during summer, you can't say you have five hours and then you are off. Also from this standpoint of the authority, you are justified and you are justified especially meditating all these reasons, yes. Therefore, I would not say nothing. Per se, if you could do, if you could have a complete Buddha, it would be nicer as you are doing it during winter. But four people is too many. Sometimes it's the heart of the community. And then he goes on. Could we not and should we not use the new official translation at mass?

[43:45]

Of course, but you don't yet have the book. But if the book comes, you must perhaps choose it, I think. But he speaks now about a new translation. I think the translation of the Gloria and the adaptation made by the official committee is especially fine. Is that this kind? It's especially fine? He says the translation of the Gloria, he says so. I cannot judge, I cannot judge because I have not seen it and I cannot judge about the English. This and the changes in the Holy Holy and the Lamb of God are very easily made. We had one for the Gloria and for each of the other giants at Christ in the desert. So I could easily get a copy of each. Of course, this is an introduction into the Kantos aria, and he does not wish to insist on it.

[44:51]

OK. At that point, there, if I happen to be assigned a creed, Sunday mass, I dropped the creed altogether at one point, as I remember it, and then retained it, but only recited it. Why do you recite it? Because. So all of you can join in. And it's the same thing you said the other day. Something is done with dignity and well... Oh yes, you are right. I would not have any difficulty here for a recited credo in English, because how can you sing it in English? In Rome the situation is quite different, because the entire people would be able to sing it in Latin, also more or less understanding it. And there is the furious principle, no, the confession of faith cannot be sung. It's ridiculous. If you have a melody, you don't have it, therefore you say it powerfully, you are right. I had no difficulty to do that.

[45:52]

Also, I would prefer to sing it in Latin. The Pope himself is insisting from time to time, also you have a vernacular language, it would be nice to sing it in Latin, that you don't lose the custom to do it, because you know it's still, it's not very difficult. You know he made, he published a little booklet of 20 pages, 30 pages, with the most fundamental canticles in Latin, also a credo, especially for the holy year, that people in international meetings is able to sing together. You don't need it in the States. I just want to say that I heard this fairly good. One of the reasons that someone said that it was the English translation that was given by whatever commission it was, it was a very, it was fairly nice English, but it was not a good translation at all from the official text.

[47:06]

But they changed now. They changed to a translation. They are saying so. The translations are made not according to the letter, but according to the translation. So that is also good English. Therefore, you are allowed to use a certain liberty. But more, there's a principle. Just another example of that would be, and also with you, as a translation of Eccles' Theory 212. That's not a translation. But sometimes, you are right, therefore you can justify the translation also with you. But nevertheless, here you are losing the specific features of this word. You must sometimes try to combine both the principles. A free translation, so far as possible, but so far as necessary. This is the principle we used in our school 60 years ago. Translate so verbally possible and so free as necessary, or vice versa, according to the situation.

[48:13]

especially for the people because they are using it in their parish churches and if you introduce this or use or oversee a different text it's not good. for a certain unity in your country, you must use the translation used now in the United States. As we are using in Germany, the new German adaptation, also we don't agree with the translation, for example, said used to say in German, we give you thanks for your great glory, we thank you for your glory. It's not right to thank. Thanksgiving is more than thank. I don't know if it is the same in English. Danksagen is the real expression for Eucharistain. Therefore, praise God, bless God, and thank, danke, mercy to you, because you have been so nice to me in this individualistic meaning.

[49:35]

We thank for the meal we have had now. But the Eucharistia, the Thanksgiving, is we bless you for your entire work of salvation. It's quite more. Nevertheless, against this, our feeling, we use the German translation to be united with the entire people. Sometimes you must renounce some marvelous thing. Therefore, I am agreeing that you are using here, if the states wish it, the bishops are wishing it, the new translation wishes it, and also with you. It's not possible that you are here using alone and with your spirit when the entire Catholic Church sings and with you. Otherwise there's a great confusion. You see, the big problem here is this, when they put melodies to those texts, in some ways I'm glad that we didn't rush to try to find all the you know, and learn things and things, you know, too many things because now they come with a translation which is, you know, the Our Father is completely different than what it used to be.

[50:40]

Completely different, Our Father? I mean, now it's, now we have one for two years now, it's really one. But the new translation has a new Father Nostrum? Yeah, but the Creed now I hear, the glory, I hear that's different. They're not listening to Our Father. Oh dear. They're not listening. There was one that came out that was kind of an anthropological thing. But I think you must use the Pater Noster, which is a new missal. We Germans are here Germans. Therefore, the bishop and the Protestant bishop said, we have no ecumenical text of the Gloria, of the Creed, and of our father. And the next day, the German peoples In the entire Catholic and Protestant church are using it. It is very nice. We change, for example, the expression in Hail Mary also, just for the Catholics only, blessed are you between the woman, in German, to biskumenadiet unter den Weibern, wife, an old German expression, today impossible.

[51:51]

You cannot say to a woman, wife, that is very, very, very, very sexual. And therefore, Frau, you must say... Ja, it's a kind of lady, Frau. Frau, how do you...? You don't have this word in English. But we changed, and Rosalie, and... Where you come now, for me, it's very difficult to change. We are used to another form, but people do that. And now it's already, after two years, common. What do you think? Go on. Why do we omit this is the word of God after the first and second readings and this is the gospel of the Lord after the gospel? Well, I can tell you very simply about the last one is because we have some acclamation And if you say that, people just reflexively speak out.

[52:52]

And here I would say you are right. We, Maria Larko, but also I don't agree completely with these things. We detest this form, because it was not in our tradition. Our answer to the first reading is the Graduale. Our answer to the second reading is the Alleluia. Our answer to your gospel reading is the solemn acclamation. You have the possibility to be free. Also, I must say, in Rome, for example, where they are using it, also in Germany, Constitution, Parola di Dio. Parola, yeah, word of God. And the entire community, the entire St. Peter, 10,000 people are answering Parola di Dio. Grazie, come si dice? Parola di Dio.

[53:54]

Grazie a Dio. I forgot it already. Thank you, God. Thank you, God, yes. And after gospel, parola del signore. And immediately, a novel answer. It's very, very well made. And after two years, this very convincing way the people is answering. But here you are doing it in a novel way. Therefore, I think you could continue. It's my personal opinion. But here, a mixed office and mass. Therefore, the next point is, a course of selected readings for lords and vespers would seem preferable, what do you say? Preferable to the ad libitum choice of the heptomadary. Heptomadary. That's good. So often we have inappropriate readings and repetitions of readings presently used.

[55:01]

I am also of this opinion. And here again, the new, this is one of the masterpieces of the new liturgia horarum of the Roman office. They have, not only for four weeks, but changing nearly every four weeks, a system of many readings. You could say during the year at least for eight weeks changing and then you are repeating the same for every hour a different reading excellently chosen from the holy scripture not too short and not too long and it would be very easy to take this book translate it in english to have someone that could do it and then use it. I was looking this week in the liturgy of the hours what readings they were giving the individuals, doing Prophet Jeremiah.

[56:11]

Ah, that is in the visuals, yes. Now, it would be impossible To beat that, if we just, if you didn't have the book for tomorrow's meeting, it's just like chapter 15, 1A, 7B, 8A, 9-14B, and it's, and you know, this is probably probably the last slide this morning. Please, I can make a remark here. If you speak about visuals, this, morning is an exception. We, preparing it, have the opinion, so far as possible, no sentonization. Therefore, not this system. But in certain cases, to give a short, not too long, but nevertheless very rich reading, because you cannot read the entire Prophet, they did it. So, here you must wait for two years cycle, where you have more time.

[57:14]

and chosen it for people which is more mature, where you could really apply our principle. No stentonization, therefore not take a verse here and a verse there. You are right, it's not real. But this morning, so far as I have seen in your election, she had only two poems. And Father Placid forgot the seventh one. It was very easy to find it. No, it was difficult. He had to look at it ahead of time, because the seventh was almost the same size as it was in the minor numbers of the verse numbers, the chapter numbers. So he could not find it, so yes. And it was slightly blackened, of course, because I looked for it on myself ahead of time to find it. But I thought it may have dropped out, because it was But for the vigils, here we are not touching the problem of the vigils. The vigils is a thing for itself, and you can use your own system, not left to the choice of the heptomother, but made by the community, by the responsible father.

[58:21]

Here we are speaking about laws and vespers, where you have a novel reading, and here I would say, follow for this house the wonderful position, never made in this way you are rightly criticizing, but a short, compact text. If that is the book that we have, in fact, used, particularly during Eastern Week, or as a professor, I believe Pierre recommended it, all the readings were written for large, vespers, and little hours, about the same length, which means that the large vespers readings are shorter than we're used to, and the little hours readings are really quite long. For you. For our situation. Yeah, it's further down since I can remember saying about the little hours, the ideal is to have maybe one sentence which one can remember, rather than what you think of as a few days. But I think it's not right what you say. The readings, also in Easter time, so far as I remember now, in the little hours are not too long.

[59:23]

But they are not only one sentence. It's true. Sometimes there are three sentences. You can select one sentence from it. Although here you are free, oh yes, but nevertheless follow more or less and I would say take the suggestions of this book and you are free still again. The Desperates of Laws, I thought were rather short. Yeah, they are too short. Myself I was starting earlier and jumping with what is the guest board. Also here again, we thought for laws and festivals, we have the difficulty, it cannot be too long if you desire to use it together with the people. And that is the high idea of this liturgy of the hours. Use the new office also for the people in the parish church. And therefore, for other groups who are saying it is ours, we provide it. You can take another reading. There is no difficulty. You are not obliged to take this too short reading according to your judgment.

[60:28]

You can take the entire chapter. And it is quite foreseen so. And you can do the same. But on the other hand, I would say, don't forget these wonderful suggestions given in the Liturgy of the Hour. They were made especially by the work of Professor Lengeling, one of our best consultants of this university in Münster. Excellent priest, Lengeling. It's very new in entire Europe. One of our best, clearest, excellent, and pious consultants. Also, he bears ears until here. Ears. Because he says, and so, so, he says, I cannot teach to my students. They don't accept me if I don't come this way. We are all laughing about it. Yes, yes, yes.

[61:31]

Therefore, in so that never gospel, according to the entire tradition, Gospel is only for the mass, and in our Benedictine tradition, for the visuals. In every hour, over an hour, not the gospel. And then still again... That's not so in the regular magistrate. The regular magistrate has the gospel at hours. But the Roman office never had it. And also the Benedictine office never had it. Do you remember? Never the Gospel.

[62:31]

Always Apostle or Prophet. But we left the principle totally, used formally in our old office, Benedictine and Roman, to repeat the Epistle of the Mass. It was too poor. Therefore we are changing now. More or less, there is no other principle. You are free. You take the best. I think for New and Old Testament, there is no distinction so far as I remember. But at least we said explicitly, we are retaining the principle until not used. The gospel is not used. Therefore, the first gospel is the canticle. Magnificat et benedictus, that is gospel. Here is the gospel, but not before. There was an Old Testament, Old Testament... Yeah, in the first verse, if you, but it does not touch you, if you sing, instead of the last psalm, a new testamentarian canticles, you cannot go back to the Old Testament in the reading.

[63:52]

You must take also a text of the New Testament. In the Roman office, they introduced in the first part and the last, in the place of the last Psalm, a canticle of the New Testament. If you use a canticle of the New Testament in the first verse, you cannot use take an Old Testamentarian text for reading. There must be a certain progression. In the laws, you are using always Old Testament canticles. Therefore, there is no difficulty to go on also with Old Testament reading. Per se, it is not so necessary, but nevertheless, you could say during the last 1500 years, some things were going on freely. forming a law. And it is not so bad to follow this law created by the spirit of the church, of the faithful, of the priests, by the monks during the centuries.

[65:01]

You must not do it, but it is also very convenient to see how it is reasonable to do so. Here you remain free. Do they replace the magnificat with a new test of candor? No, no, no, the last sound. And here we were, many of us were, especially I, I have nothing to say, We are against that. And the practice shows it is very difficult because where are the New Testamentarian canticles to be sung in the first verse? They take to the Philippians 2. We come in from a day, as I said, it's not a canticle. And they take 2, 3, 4 canticles brought together from different places sometimes of the Revelation. That is all.

[66:02]

And Mr. Schwarzach, who are insisting very much, stronger still in this system, they are choosing in principio ad verbum, the Prologos of St. John's, not the Canticle, and so on. Or the Canticle of Love, 1 Corinthians 13. So you can take the entire Holy Scripture. And Mr. Schwarzach is exaggerating to not repeat. They don't say magnifica de benedictus every day. We were fighting for that also. I remember some of the most prominent consultors said, oh, the Benedictus and the end of the Lord is so terrible. He was from a modern congregation who never say of his only in Christmas night. And then the entire Christmas vigils, no, no, no, the Lord's, oh, still the Benedictus. And then we answered, I said it, from my practice, and all were agreeing, the monks, when we were for four hours during Christmas in the old system, in the church, vigils, midnight mass, lords.

[67:22]

And then finally we arrived to Benedictus, all müdigkeit, all tired. Our time was over. Our time was finished. We were awakening again. So the people could say sometimes, and you can tell that, it's not my merit, they stay four hours in the choir and they are not tired in the end. But it was too much. And at the end of the day we were finished. We introduced the custom of going to the lectern for Vesper reading, not for love, because we were going to have a long... Yes, quite possible. But now, you see, if you follow this lectionary that Brother Peter mentioned... No, I would say...

[68:24]

No, no, no. You can retain this following his counsel, take the suggestion given by the liturgy of Orarum, you are not obliged to do it, but you can do it, and take the entire text, a chapter, a longer. You can insist in this custom if you like it, we wish to have in the first place a longer reading. It is foreseen in the liturgy of Orarum, and if the reading is not adapted, able, made for that, you take another. But I would say the wishes given by the New Liturgy of Orarum are so great that it would be convenient at least to see what they are saying. You can use it. Make this experiment. Use the New Liturgy of Orarum in Latin, with the indication of the text. and take then the text himself of the English Bible, or take the new English translation of it and so on.

[69:25]

I think most of the hours, especially for the minor hours, you will be satisfied. And for Lourdes too. And for Vespers you take another text, or the same text but in the entire chapter, or the greater part of it. Here he says, of course, the whole problem of the lectionary, including scripture readings in the refectory, is one of the biggest problems, and to arrange a course of selected readings for Laws and Vespers in the refectory would be a considerable task. Perhaps this is an area which Father Burckhardt can be of special help. I don't know. Father Raffel could be. But here I think the way in which Father Raphael combined the courses of the choir with this refectory.

[70:27]

It's an iron jugum, jugum ferrum. You never can change. Sometimes you wish to be shown in the refectory, but you must read it, otherwise you don't have the continuation. And the old system of Sancta Anselmo, where we, without any attention to the ecclesiastical year, and all formality was also in my monastery, so, we are beginning in a certain day with the Genesis, and after two, three years, we are finishing with the Revelation. It's also good. You read a chapter, and if you have no time, you read only two verses. You are free. But for the choir, you need very well selected courses. Here I would say you are right. You cannot read Isaiah in the choir in summer. You must read him in Advent, more or less, but on another end. You can read Isaiahs every time, therefore in refuge there is no reason not to read him.

[71:45]

I would say it is an exaggeration to say Isaiahs can be read only in Advent, but you must read him in Advent. I wish to say, you can do it as Father Raphael is doing it, but the difficulty is, and we are suffering sometimes by this, for example, he must arrange things so that things are going on in two years, he must finish. Therefore, the feast of St. Matthew, you must read Tobias. No. you must read how the scripture takes convenience to the apostle. We are not free enough because then the system is ruined, it's destroyed. One of the reasons because this wonderful bravery of the Cardinal Quintanillas in the beginning of the 16th century did not succeed

[72:49]

He was invited to make this breviary, and later on, Pius V and the Council of Trent forbid it. He did not know the liturgical year. In the first edition, his breviary had the common Psalms of the year for Christmas. In the second, he changed that. But nevertheless, in the entire Holy Scripture, in every year, therefore, in most of the feasts, you had the common readings. It's too much. It's not convenient. Mademoiselle is right. It is a difficult problem to choose. Perhaps the solution would be if you don't wish to make your own courses. If you have nobody, you could do it. But if you have somebody, you could do it. You or Father James. If you don't wish it to yourself, use the two-year cycle of the suggested by Rome. And so far, Fr.

[73:52]

Gregory says, it is already in the English translation of the Liturgy of the Hours, but we cannot find this book. You have found it? Okay. Is it there? Is it there in the two-year cycle? The official Roman two-year cycle? Yes, I think so. Why not? Because the one, the cycle, the following rituals is different than the cycle in the liturgy. Yes, the Liturgy of the Hours has only one year cycle. Yes, even so, like this week in the English translation they're reading either Yeah, it's far from being complete. There's no connection. There's no Ezekiel. One is New Testament, I think Timothy or something, and the other one is the Book of Esther.

[74:58]

Where? In the two-year cycle? Two readings? In one year. No, it's okay. No, no, no, no. You are right. That's so. In the two-year cycle, you have in certain days the New Testament, and in another year you have... But they in no way correspond. No, they don't correspond to the Latin office. That is evident, because it's a two-year cycle. The two-year cycle is totally different from the one-year cycle. It could be the official one, but nevertheless, you see here, in the New Testament, in our Benedictine tradition, Fr. Reichfeld is very much insisting, and also you, I think, you cannot read the New Testament in one year, in another year, the Old Testament. You need the New Testament every day, according to the rule of St. Benedict. At least for the Sunday vigils, in the third nocturne, always St.

[76:04]

Paul. Always St. Paul. Entire year, no homilies. Homilies are a later principle. St. Benedict says in the rule, Old Testament, or some letters too, in the first nocturne, then Father, then St. Paul. And we wish, at least in Marialak, we wish to reintroduce this system for the Sundays. Perhaps during the week you can change a little bit. But if you are reading St. Paul in the Sundays, you don't read him in the week, and so you need for the week only the first, no, you must read in the vigils only Acts, Revelation, and the Catholic letters. And you are doing it in the Easter time. Because in the Easter time you don't read the Old Testament. There are certain rules.

[77:06]

In the Easter time, only New Testament in the first nocturne. In the other year, in the first nocturne, Old Testament. In the second, or in the third nocturne, always St. Paul. And then, after the reading, a patristic reading. and here again the new Roman liturgy has the patristic reading and you know marvelous readings a wonderful election and I would suggest with time that you use these riches but you must have translations that's a difficulty and you know there is, I said that already, there is the didache letter to a diognet Justin, Melito of Sardis, and all the apostolic fathers, Saint Ignatius, nothing formerly we had in our old Roman liturgy.

[78:11]

We have it now with all the great Greek Syriac and Latin fathers, also monastic fathers. And Henry Ashford, in his new patristic lectionary, wishes to get also more monastic readings in the Middle Ages, so far as possible, modern authors. And the intention of Rome is also to give the possibility to create a lectionary where you find modern authors which are not sent. For example, Cardinal Newman. the great mystics of the Grand Siècle in France. and you can also join, add Abbot Marmion and Father Damasus and so on, and all these people. I must say again the reading on this last Sunday on Esther, on the pathways, I never have heard such a marvelous explication of Esther as in this commentary, but not living authors.

[79:17]

This was our principle. Also, perhaps this principle is not so great because it is foreseen, at least for us monks, that sometimes, instead of reading a patristic reading, the upper primate gives a homily. The superior is speaking. And if a superior is speaking, and if the Pope is read sometimes, also in the official Roman liturgy, perhaps it's not so bad to take also a living author. But the difficulty is sometimes you take the living author as Evelyn or Monseigneur Charles Davies, and later on he left the church. Who? Who? The prophet, who prophet? Then he says here, if you are allowed to go on, it seems to me a tremendous pity to have dropped the tedium completely, but you did not.

[80:34]

You have it again. No vigils. It seems to me that four readings are too many on Sundays and solemnities. Why? I would like to see the Gospel omitted, since we will be hearing it at the Eucharist. And I think it gains in solemnity by that one proclamation. So, Father Gregory, we were discussing it last night, but I don't agree in no way. No, no, no. Nevertheless, in my monastery, as in Gethsemane, we are using, you did it too sometimes, the Gospel of the Resurrection. And I must say it is not too tiresome to hear it because we are changing it every 10 weeks. It's very powerful.

[81:35]

But as we are doing in St. Anselmo, to hear it twice is not too much. Or you are changing, you take in year C, Luke, in the morning you take Matthew. So there are so many possibilities, but in no way I would omit the Gospel. It is one of the points we must retain also because it is our Benedictine tradition. If we wish to remain Benedictine, we could accept the Roman breviary and change a little bit the disposition of Sarnes, because they are too few, four weeks. But for the rest, this breviary is very well made, I think. But we must retain at least Gospel, the Dictate Laus, and Amen, Gospel, Amen, the Dictate Laus, and the Canticles. All the other things are not Benedictine, but common with the Roman office. after having destroyed the Compline by the introduction of the Nunc dimittis Domine. But we did not destroy it.

[82:40]

Here all today are agreeing that the Nunc dimittis in the Compline is a good thing Saint Benedict did not have, we can take it also. But the real Benedictine specific point is gospel and so on and canticle, canticles and gospel. Therefore, here I would not agree with him. For vigils and Sundays and solemnities, I would suggest the classical arrangement of an Old Testament reading in the first nocturne. Okay, that's good. And according to the laws of the liturgical evolution, in Easter time, not Old Testament, but Acts and Revelation in Catholic letters. Then, a patristic reading at the end of the second nocturne, okay. A reading from the Apostle, it is from the epistles, and he says, or book of Revelation at the end of the third nocturne, but it is not classic, the Revelation in the third nocturne, but you could do it.

[83:47]

Because perhaps St. Paul is not enough for the entire year, I don't know. The second nocturnal reading could be, as it is now the case, from modern church fathers, as well as from the ancient fathers and could relate to the gospel of the day, even though the gospel would not be proclaimed at vigils. This is one suggestion which would simplify the work of the compiling of the weekly order. Therefore, you have very few. But here again, there is one point, if it is allowed to criticise, that you, on the Feast of the Exaltation, did not have festum, with three nocturnes, with canticles, and the Gospel did not please to me, and would not please to Rome.

[84:53]

Because you have one, when do you have a feast? Exaltation and Matthew. In September. No, according to the calendar. You don't have it. No, no, no, no, no. According to the calendar is Festum, and then you have Memoria, always made in the same way, ad libitum or obligatoria, there is no difference between the kind, the form to celebrate. But you must not celebrate the memoria ad libitum. Then you have feasts and solemnities both in the same way celebrated, with the exception that the feasts don't have first vesper. But there is no difference in the kind of celebration. Therefore you have, according to our Benedictine system, three nocturnes with canticles and the gospel. And a few feasts could be celebrated. And here again you are free in the disposition.

[85:57]

You can take six psalms only. First nocturne three, second three. And you can take one canticle. You are not obliged to take three. Therefore, it must not be too long. My impression was, and to take this example of exaltation of Christ, did you have a special invitatorium? Yes. Ah, at least that. But you did not have it in the memoria obligatoria of St. Chrysostom. No, it's not necessary, you must not do it, but in the feast, in the memoria obligatoria of St. John Chrysostom, you did not have nothing in the office. Here, for a memoria, You are quite free. You can take, as you did in the entire deferial office, with the exception of patristic reading and oration, and sometimes also antiphons to Benedictus and Magnificat. You can take from the common or from the weekday.

[87:00]

You are quite free, also for the obligatoria. But it is foreseen that you take, instead of the normal patristic reading, A reading concerning the saint, and this year for Jean-Jacques was some marvelous reading where he is speaking homily to the people before he was expelled. And he says, I don't fear it. If Christ is with me, what can the exile do for me? Therefore, I am ready to go. Really, I did not know this homily. Excellent, excellent. Therefore, but you have the reading of the Holy Scripture of the week, and then the patristic reading of the saint, and you are invited to see the oration of the saint, at least in Lourdes and Vespers. We changed in Rome already. We had in Rome the same system as you.

[88:02]

We did not think to have a memoria, only in the mass. But now we changed. We have the possibility to take the hymn of the saint. You can take the hymn of the saint, but you must not. And so on. So for the old commemoration, after the benedictus is no more existing, No, it's time to finish. It's already 11 o'clock. No, no, half past ten. But if you think it's too much, you finish. I think it's too much also for you. Let me see. To finish this shorter... Oh yes, it's still... No, it's still... It's too much.

[89:08]

There are suggestions only to... Father Martin said, was inviting me to give also a conference to the entire community and here I would think to speak about our fundamental intentions in the Concilium Ad Exsequentem Constitutionem, what was our meaning But what did we wish to obtain? And therefore, what are the main principles of our reform? And then if you would like, I could join also. You invited me to do so as a kind of criticism, critique about my impressions of your wonderful office, yes. But nevertheless, Yeah, I'm very enjoying it. But there are some points, I said it already, where I don't agree.

[90:18]

But you must not follow me. You can hear that, and then do what you like to do.

[90:24]

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