Okay, welcome everyone. Good morning. I want to welcome a couple of distinguished guests, Anne Overton and Peter Overton from Berkeley. Anne is a swimmer, you know, at Tassajara. A lot back in Japan a long time. Peter is a teacher at Berkeley Center. So good to see you. So today is, amongst other things, Hiroshima Day. the anniversary of the U.S. government dropping the atom bomb on the ocean in 1945, and the three-day sale on Nagasaki. So I want to talk about that, but also I'm going to come back to Dogen. And we have some new people here. I don't know if you're new to Soto Zen as well as to Ancient Dragons, but Dogen is the 13th century Dogen. A Japanese monk who went to China and brought back this lineage of Buddhism, now called Sutta Zen, and had many writings, but basically thought about just sitting.

[01:12]

This Zazen practice we do to enact and express Buddha awareness. Back to him, but I want to talk about Hiroshima and also the current nuclear dangers. And this week I saw the movie Oppenheimer. There's sometimes two movie reviews here. I highly recommend it. It's long, but it doesn't feel long. It's talking about the development of the atom bomb during World War II. And a few of us were up in Evanston yesterday morning at an event organized by Buddhist Peace Fellowship, Chicago and Chicago Area Peace Action, among others, to commemorate Hiroshima Day. And for people...

[02:14]

We have numbers of people from Hyde Park. There's an event there this afternoon at 5 p.m. at the Henry Morse sculpture at the site where Enrico Fermi led the first nuclear fission, which is also part of the film. So... So to start with... Many historians now say that We did not need to drop the atom bomb on Japan. Japan was already preparing to surrender, but that Truman did it as a warning to Russia, which was developing also to the Soviet Union.

[03:27]

And This killed many, many people, hundreds of thousands of people immediately in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and thereafter many people from aviation sickness for some time thereafter and affected the world. We are lucky that it's the only time that atom bomb has been dropped The bomb has been dropped on this planet. We've had many, many, many near misses. And to say about the situation now, there are over 13,000 nuclear weapons on our planet, 90% of which are possessed by the United States or Russia. If detonated, only a small fraction of these bombs could kill billions of people, and effectively end human civilization as we know it.

[04:34]

Nuclear weapons don't make us safe, nor do they deter or prevent war. The greatest threat to our security is survival as a species, and today the threat of nuclear war is perhaps greater than it's ever been. So there are a number of things that people don't know about the United States government's nuclear policy. One is that we had a policy of first use that we have announced that we will use nuclear weapons before anyone else in recent fit in a given situation. Also that There's unchecked launch authority, and it's not just the President of the United States, but many people lower down in the military chain of command who have the capacity to launch nuclear attacks.

[05:42]

Also, the nuclear weapons are on here trigger alert. So... In the event of a misunderstanding, something that looks like a nuclear attack, these weapons could be launched immediately. And now there's a nuclear weapons race between, well, not only about the United States, but of course, Russia and China. So a really difficult situation. And there are dangerous situations in the Ukraine, in the China Sea, many places where things could go wrong. So the only safeguard is to eliminate nuclear weapons. There is a nuclear treaty that other countries

[06:42]

countries besides those with nuclear weapons this time to not have nuclear weapons. So we're in a difficult situation. And I don't say this to scare anybody because that's not the point, though we might be afraid of this, but to be aware. So Buddhism is about awareness, a practice about awareness on many levels. The Bodhisattva practice that we do here, which is about universal awakening, not just self-help, not just becoming completely awakened myself or oneself, but we do this together in samba and recognizing the situations of the world. So to be aware of what's happening is And awareness itself is transformation and has the capacity to change things.

[07:46]

So I want to talk about something in my childhood. When I was in grade school, way back in the late 50s, before most of you were born, anyway, in some places, grade school students were supposed, we had what were called air raid drills, as well as fire drills. Fire drills, we just left the building. Air raid drills, well, in many places, the students were supposed to duck under their desk. just to get under their desk, as if that would protect them from an atom bomb. These air raid drills were really atom bomb drills. In my school, somehow we did something different. We went down to the basement where there was an atom bomb or air raid drill, and we all stood around the perimeter of the basement facing the wall.

[08:56]

You did that, Jim? Yeah, okay. Yeah, Eve and I were both in Pittsburgh. Anyway, so years later, I remembered that vividly. After several years of Zazen practice in the Japanese Shinto Zen priesthood in New York City, I moved to San Francisco and started practicing at the San Francisco Zen Center and the city center. In the basement was this wonderful Zen dome. It's true. And we would sit on platforms, if you can probably remember this, facing the wall. And at some point I remember, oh, this is like those aerators. And I remember some of my early sessions there. We sat for seven days. I had intense pain in my legs or elsewhere. And it occurred to me that Zen...

[10:01]

was Japan's, American Zen was Japan's revenge against America. Revenge against America. Maybe it was also penance. Maybe doing this, so of course, Zazen does not need to be painful. It takes a while to settle in. And Zazen, yoga says, is the gateway to the pros and cons, to peace and joy. I would say it is. But that's a long process. So Zazen is about maybe it's penance in a way, but it's also about just being present and not right. And paying attention to whatever comes up. And through that, we express and enact Buddha.

[11:06]

We express and enact the awareness and insight of Buddha, not just Buddha as some guy who lived 25 years in North East India, but Buddha as the reality of awakening everywhere, and including on our seats and our bodies and hearts and minds. So this connection between Japan and America is really interesting. I think Roshan is relevant. Some of us really like Japanese culture and rock gardens. flower arranging, tea, and became an expert in paper folding and origami in Japan. For a couple of years, I've been here in Kyoto.

[12:10]

It's wonderful. Zazen is complicated, and it requires, you know, from the first time one sits upright, one can feel what I've come to call wholeness, just that everything's okay. That it's okay to be this person on my seat, together with all these people in this sanda. So as that has the power to just allow us to feel that our life is I don't know, there's lots of things to say, none of them catch it. Something that our life is meaningful and we can choose to make it meaningful. And for anyone who does visit Japan, going to Hiroshima is a powerful experience.

[13:26]

to see remains of the building. Anyway, there's a lot to say about Hiroshima, this horrible event. And again, we've been, we as human beings have been lucky. And the danger that we are with the conflict in Ukraine and Russia and the United States both being involved really Anyway, it's a dangerous situation. It's nice to have practice works over time, just showing up every day or many days a week, sitting, just sitting like this. And it's not about reaching some special state of super awakening or something like that. Although I think many Americans would be enticed to say by such ideals and aspirations.

[14:33]

But just to be present, this body, this mind, together with all of us. And over time, Doing that, we start to see our own ancient twisted karma, our own habits. So in the Heart Sutra, it talks about the five skandhas, forms, feelings, perceptions, and pulses, consciousness. The second one, feelings, is not about emotions as we think of them. It's just about positive, negative, and neutral feelings. And we all have that. So to see our own patterns and habits of, we could call it delusion or we could just call, we don't have to call it anything, just our own patterns of habits of how we think about ourselves and the world. To really acknowledge that is a big part of sustained Zazen practice over time.

[15:39]

So we do a chant at the beginning of our services, all my ancient mystic prana from beginningless greed, hate, and delusion, born through body, speech, and mind, are now fully about. So this avowal or this acceptance or this just acknowledging that we have each of us in our own way, through our own past actions and thoughts and so forth, particular habit patterns, particular ways of being caught in how we think about ourselves and the world. And the world has this too. Of course, our country has intertwisted trauma. from the history of slavery and racism. Although, you know, there's now this move by some of the politicians of cruelty to eliminate the history of slavery.

[16:50]

Why racism? Slavery was actually good for the slaves. Anyone might hear this. Part of our practice is repentance. This isn't how we usually think about Zen. Zen is about practice and awakening and illumination and anything. But actually, Dogen talks about repentance practice. So later on in our service, we're going to chant one of Dogen's writings. which is one of the things we sometimes chant, is his writing on those works for arousing the vow. I'm just going to quote from some of the last part of that. He says, venerating Buddhist ancestors, we are one with Buddhist ancestors. Contemplating awakening mind, we are one with awakened mind.

[17:51]

He talks about that... In the past, Buddhist ancestors also practiced this, and we can read that as well. He says, the Buddha is quietly studying and mastering causes and conditions. One is fully informed by the verified Buddha. So this is one description of sasana, but it also sustains sasana. Quietly studying, mastering. our causes and conditions, one that is fully informed by the verified Buddhas. With this kind of repentance, certainly will come the inconceivable guidance of Buddha ancestors. That phrase, inconceivable guidance of Buddha ancestors, I hadn't heard it in Americanism, but actually it's part of Dogen's early teachings, that when we put ourselves in this position, it's not as if everything

[18:57]

And we want the sangha, but trees and birds and lakes and mountains and rivers and everything supports us and guides us beyond our consent, beyond how we can conceive or perceive it, to awaken it. and that that happens with this kind of repentance, with our acknowledging of our ancient history. He says, confessing to Buddha with mindful heart and dignified body, the strength of this confession will eradicate the roots of wrongdo. So we don't think of confession as a Zen practice. And it's not like going in and seeing a priest and confessing your sins. Confession and repentance means something different in Western religions.

[20:00]

But just to acknowledge all my interested karma from keeping all this great delusion. And to kind of allow that to be present in our Zazen when it comes down. Body, speech, and mind. now fully avowed. So to acknowledge that we are karmic beings that were caught in the web of causation is this practice. And acknowledging or avowing that we do have, well, I won't, I shouldn't speak for everyone. But many of us have made mistakes in our lives. Maybe there are people here who have not. But just acknowledging that can transform our heart.

[21:04]

So this practice of repentance is not passive. It's an active practice. It's related to another important Buddhist practice, skillful means, which is to say, when we see this ancient twisted karma in ourselves and in our society, How do we respond? How do we help awaken all beings? How do we help to prevent harm or to act to mitigate harm?

[22:15]

And this applies to our own, you know, back on our life or even as we look back on our activity in the last week, how do we acknowledge this? And repentance is not to beat yourself up about it, but okay, what do we do? What are the skillful means? And there's not a formula for this. This involves patience and attention And seeing how we feel, seeing how others feel, listening to others. Listening is so important. And part of skillful means is that we make mistakes. Or most of us, again, maybe.

[23:19]

Maybe there's someone who's never made a mistake, and that's funny. But how do we acknowledge and allow and pay attention to those mistakes and learn from them? And it's not that we fix everything, you know. It's not about that. It's not about reaching some perfect place. It's about just acknowledging, oh, that was a mistake. And it was also the practice of making the right mistakes. Some mistakes are helpful, some mistakes cause more harm. So active repentance is to learn from our mistakes and for our country, looking back on Hiroshima, how do we change our policies so that we're not in danger of more nuclear weapons, more nuclear attacks?

[24:33]

Again, there have been many, historically, there have been many, many, many, very close near misses historically since Hiroshima. When their weapons were almost launched. There is like. Oh, and I was going to. Also. read a passage from the Avatamsaka Thravaraman Sutra, which is very, very important in Soto Zen. It's one of many scriptures that are important, but this Lian school that developed from the Sutra in China, it's very influential on Dogen's attitude and Soto Zen's attitude towards practice.

[25:39]

So... A few little passages. First it says, you should arouse the determination for unself-complete, perfectly awakening, purify your minds, lead well-behaved lives, and repent of and get rid of all obstructions due to past actions. So, you know, sometimes we can get rid of some habits. I've told the story about how I quit smoking a month after I started smoking, just because I enjoyed my breathing. I didn't want to smoke anymore. So some habits can go away, even addictive habits. And some are just so deep that they're always there. But how do we not get caught by them? How do we not react to them? How do we not act on these habits? old habits and patterns.

[26:45]

A little further in this passage, in the Flat Army Sutra, it says, the disciple asked the Bodhisattva, given these teachings, Well, they attained unprecedented wonder and were very joyful. Then they asked, how does the Great Awakening Being repent of and get rid of all faults? The Awakening Being, part of the response was, the Awakening Being knows that conditioning acts do not come from any particular location. Yet, they accumulate and develop in mind. They come only from delusion and have no abode. The awakened being clearly sees this with certainty and has no doubts or confusion.

[27:48]

So... So, to speak of sentient beings, covetousness, wrath, and delusion, and their various actions, yet there really is no self or possession. All actions performed, the resulting consequences of this passive transmigration cannot be found wherever you may seek, just as my voice is not born and does not perish. So, This is just to say that these patterns can be very deep in our hearts and minds and to witness them and to acknowledge them to ourselves and maybe sometimes to others to admit to having made mistakes. This practice helps us to be more fully awake and aware and kind and helpful to others and to ourselves.

[29:01]

Maybe I'll stop there, and I'm interested in any responses any of you have about repentance, or about Hiroshima, or about Japan, or anything else. So thank you very much. Hopefully you can help to call people up. So comments, responses, please feel free. Yes. And could you say your name please? Justin. Hi, Justin. And could you speak up so I can hear you? Yes. I've read a couple of your responses to fields. I've also seen up and up. your story about the taste of Pittsburgh. And I was just thinking that the connection with the word refuge is just too much to pass up. Yes. Being that you were in a refuge from the world around you.

[30:05]

So I'd love to hear your thoughts. Yeah, thank you. Yes, so this is definitely, this practice of repentance is definitely related to taking refuge, which is a A major practice in all of Buddhism is to take refuge, to return home to Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. Does anyone not know what those words mean? Just to say, Buddha is the awakened one, but the awakening in everything. The awakened aspect of all beings in all situations. Dharma is the teaching of the truth about this. And Sangha is trinity. So we have this Sangha here. It's wonderful Sangha. And There are many songs, so wherever you find community that is nourishing, that's the treasure of Sangha. And so to return home to that is, in some way, a pretentious. It's acknowledging that we do have ancient history in front of us and that we can go beyond that.

[31:17]

So yeah, that's a formal practice that we do here, sometimes chanting the refugees, but also we have lay ordination, and priest ordination, and so forth. I think I can't see if you were able to watch this. So David Day is one of the few people who has recently received lay ordination here and took refuge formally last month. So, yeah, thank you for mentioning that. That's important. You know, I'm part of taking refugees to look and see what do we take refuge in? What movies do we take refuge in? There are a lot of good ones. I also saw Barbie this week. I also recommend it. It's smarter than, you know, much simpler. And very political. Very good. Yes, Keith. Yeah, I am a little younger than you, but my principal was older, which is, I think, why, you know, we did, when I was in grade school, we went downstairs and went against the wall.

[32:31]

But it didn't really feel like much of a refugee. Yeah, I mean, and I think it's interesting to consider what living in the shadow of the bomb did. to those of us who grew up with it. And so that's our generation and every generation since. And I know for me, it kind of worked my development. I mean, because I learned about nuclear fission before I learned about sex. And I'm not talking about it experientially. I mean, I genuinely didn't know. I knew like there was something about the sperm and the egg, but nobody explained it to me. But they explained nuclear fission, which is weird. When you think about it. And so I, you know, I was afraid. And I didn't quite get that it was just the uranium atoms that split. And I'm not sure how I'd reconcile this with the fact they'd already set off the bomb.

[33:31]

But maybe, anyway, I remember thinking that the world would unravel when, from, that atoms would split apart and everything would be destroyed. And Actually, you know, and the fear of, you know, like Jan's activism. I mean, for me, that knowledge of the possibility of a new award in that election, that's what led to me going into social science and applied social science and feeling like, you know, we had all this technical knowledge, but we didn't understand how to govern ourselves. peacefully. But I don't know. So, yeah, I just wanted to say that I think, I think it, and my mother, you know, before I was born, before she was married, you know, she spent time in Japan. So I heard about Japan from when I was very little and I, I have the close-knit basis that she got there.

[34:35]

But so, I mean, I certainly never demonized Japan or felt that there was enough reason to drop the bomb on them. But anyhow, I guess I was just reflecting on what it does to human consciousness and development of ourselves to know that we live in the shadow of that kind of annihilation. Yes, thank you. And I'll note that one of our is in Japan now. And Steve, you once asked me, I think in this room, how did I come to Zen? And I think I answered Vietnam. But I could have said Hiroshima. So yes, we've lived in the shadow. Thank you. Other comments, responses? Oh, David, hi. Something that's been coming up for me a lot recently, probably because of the work and the work that I do, but something when Justin said, when he talked about taking refuge, I offered this as a question and not just a comment, but

[35:56]

The word refuge, I see more, not so much as taking refuge, but remembering connection. Refuge is like, you know, it's myself, and I'm, you know, seeking safety for myself in a way. But I think maybe more important is for us to seek connection and connection is in them. So I am connected to Buddha and I'm connected to Dharma and I'm connected to Buddha. to the Sangha, rather than seeking refuge and seeking my own safety, but rather acknowledging my own connection to all of those. And I think that's the part for me that is really, that I'm thinking a lot about recently. There's a slight nuance that's different there.

[37:00]

And I'd love to get your comments on that. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so refuge is connected to the idea of sanctuary, that we're safe. But I think it's more like, as I was calling it, returning home. And returning home means returning home to our connections with everything. I mean, not just connections, it's not that we're separate, actually. We are, I mean, of course, we could feel separate, but we are connected. One with Sangha, one with the whole situation of the world. We're not separate. So, yeah, so that connection is important. Somebody asked him, what is, in one word, what is the essence of Zen? He said, non-separation. Let's say right away.

[38:03]

So we're not separate. We're not separate from each other. We're not separate from ourselves. And repentance as a practice is really becoming aware of that, becoming aware of that we think we're separate. We do. We have patterns of body, speech, and mind, and experiences that make us feel separate. And our practice is just how to heal that. So thank you very much to you. Hi, Ann. So you take refuge in the movie, and I feel that, I mean, I think it's important that we're in the centers and listen to our teachers. But there are people, you know, there's a special angel walking on us. Yes. There are people who don't know anything about Buddhism who are teachers for me. I took a computer class, and the teachers, like there's no, they are here. He used to teach computer skills to homeless people. And so I just actually made some promises that when people don't understand Buddhism, they're teaching me.

[39:11]

And I feel like when people talk about Buddhism, they don't get credit for those people. That's all I want to say. Thank you. I very much agree. So I was talking last week about the ancestors. So we talk about the Buddhist ancestors, the ancestors, you know, in this Zen form of some lineage going back to Shakyamuni Buddha 25 years ago in now Northeastern India. And we had a bunch of names. And of course, the younger generation, there were many teachers. And of course, we had all kinds of ancestors. So in Buddhism, In Japan, actually, in Japan, that's a cultural thing, that you connect with a particular lineage. I don't know if there was a lineage of paper making that were connected with doing that, but there are martial arts lineages, and there's cultural lineages. Does anybody here like music? Well, whatever kind of music you like, there's a whole litany of ancestors who helped to bring that to you.

[40:18]

or literature, or art, or social action. There are ancestors. And they're not just ancestors way back in India or China or Japan or New York or Europe or wherever. There are ancestors everywhere now. And I wrote an article about ancestors in the future. So we are living in this complex time that is not just about right now. And so, yes, yes, yes. It's not about Buddhism. Buddhist institutions are very fallible because they're made up of human beings. So difficulties arise. But to look at who inspires you, what inspires you. And can you say one of your favorite movies? Oh, I want to see Oppenheimer very much. I read a book, it was not about Oppenheimer, it was somebody who, when you came to Los Alamos, you had to come into Sante and somebody would arrange the rides there and stuff.

[41:29]

So she talked about the community and Oppenheimer, it has a lot of stuff about Oppenheimer, but it's more like the vibes, what was going on in the group. And she said, people wanted to be part of something Oppenheimer was doing. Yeah. And I felt also that I've been working on trying to find forgiveness for someone who was a leader in my life a long time ago. And I felt also like him, you can't help being who you are. You can change and you can learn things and all kinds of stuff, but you kind of can't help being who you are. And that's something in my path of trying to find forgiveness for someone that he changed a lot. I think a lot of reflection on self, but earlier in his life, he just is who he is, you know, and I felt that way kind of about Oppenheimer. Yeah, you know, he made decisions and changed a lot legally about things, but he is who he is. Yeah. So, it's not about, you know, I mean, Buddhism is wonderful.

[42:33]

I love the drama. I love drama studies and stuff to confess that, but You know, there are all kinds of wonderful spiritual teachings. Oppenheimer was an economist who was inspired by the Bhagavad Gita. There are many, many wonderful spiritual and cultural and artistic traditions, and they're alive now. And the reason they're alive now is because of many things in the past and in the future. We're looking back at us and encouraging us. That's how I see it. Other comments, responses, perspectives, questions? Oh, hi, Jen. Oh, hi. Hiroshima wasn't, and not exciting, weren't the only place we brought bombs. There's a new map of the United States showing the fallout from the Trinity explosion.

[43:39]

that was in the air, and the 93 explosions that were in the air that were perpetrated at the Nevada test site. And Trinity is dwarfed by this map of fallout. And then we have to consider that... Yeah, in a way talk and... Say it again. And Bikini. Oh, yeah, and Bikini, because Bikini was where we dropped Castle Bravo. And even with Trinity, the scientists were making bets as to whether it would set the atmosphere on fire. And Castle Bravo is included in a book called – I can't remember the name of the book, but – So Jen is mentioning islands in the Pacific where we did nuclear tests. And Castle Brawlhole is considered one of the five major nuclear accidents in the world because it was so, the power of it was so unexpected and many scientists were just literally knocked against the wall because they thought they were in a protected place.

[44:59]

And so I just think that we ought to consider the fact that We bond ourselves as well as the Japanese and other people and other people. And I wanted to say something personal. And and that is I learned something this week being that, you know, sometimes I feel guilty about what makes me laugh. And I think, how could you think that was funny? And I realized that I laugh at things that are ironic. And every time you laugh, it's not because something is funny. And so I kind of eased my conscience about laughing at things because I got a letter from a woman who was all ready to go on a trip. She was going to a family reunion with Miss Giddens because these members of her family were anti-vaxxers, et cetera.

[46:00]

And she had to cancel her trip on the very day because they'd all gotten COVID. And so that made me laugh. And I thought, that's not fun. And so I just wanted to say that as a personal thing that I learned. Thank you for your confession. Yes. And then I wanted to say something political, if it's okay. And that is that this weekend is the weekend of the Hiroshima bombing. And it's a time for Americans to contemplate, to repent, and to be quiet and consider what has happened. But in Chicago, They planned Lollapalooza this weekend. And I was really offended by this. I was listening to Raphael on WFMT, and the very first piece that he played was called Lollapalooza.

[47:07]

And it was in recognition of Lollapalooza that was taking place this weekend. And I listened to most of the rest of the show. He never mentioned Hiroshima. And this is the same weekend as Hiroshima. And I feel that we are depriving people of their memory by not acknowledging a weekend or a day or a couple of days, three probably, where we need to be silent. We need to think. And instead of distracting ourselves with bread and circuses, if you'll pardon the expression. So, okay. And then I'm going out to one other subject. I did not like Falkenheimer. And that is because of the way the story was presented. It was way too bombastic for me.

[48:08]

And that is definitely a ton. And I felt really offended by the presentation. And So another repentance that I have is my picky picky about negative things. The organist at the music box played We'll Meet Again as the last selection on this concert. And the audience did not recognize that We'll Meet Again was the last scene in Dr. Strangelove, how I learned to quit worrying and love the bomb. And Vera Lynn singing this song that just makes you cry. And the audience had no idea. They were too young to remember this. And the organist bringing this up just before the movie of Oppenheimer,

[49:14]

was not recognized. And I really have to confess it. Thank you for listening to me. Thank you, Jan. Jan is one of our song activists. I want to thank you for all that. And just to say a little bit, just that Trinity is kind of the center of the opera. Yeah, that movie is might be criticized in various ways. But it's an education about that period. And part of what's happening now, I've talked about how we have politicians who promote caring and politicians who promote cruelty. And some of the politicians of cruelty now are trying to erase history. And this is dangerous. So to know about history is important. Not to ban books. One of my favorite books is Beloved by Tony Washington. It's banned in I don't know how many states.

[50:18]

Anyway, so I sometimes talk about history. And I like history. So this goes back to introverted karma. We need to know our personal history and acknowledge and vow and sometimes repent. And we need to know our cultural history and To think that slavery was beneficial to slaves is just crazy. And so we need to respond to cruelty with caring. And thank you for mentioning. By the way, Jan is an anti-nuclear power activist as well. And so along with Russian, we've had Chernobyl and Three Mile Island and Fukushima, which is still leaking. Gorbachev said that Chernobyl was by the Soviet Union class. And so this is a current issue in that war.

[51:19]

with the largest nuclear power plants in the universe. The shell that they put to supposedly protect the environment against the irradiated contents at the bottom of the lagoon in Bikini, it's been leaking so much for a day. Yeah, right. Yeah, we don't know what to do with it. Is this another comment? Peter, hi. Hi. Thank you very much for the dialogue. Can you speak up for the people online? Thank you for speaking about all the things. I think it reminded me how I became aware of what actually happened in Russia. That was about 12 million people or whatever, but it's because I was growing up in a community where the fish was banned, so to speak, or realized.

[52:33]

For some reason, I wanted to know something more about what happened. And I found myself taking a book out of my school libraries, John Herzog's book, which is the sort of first exploitation of the public about what actually is a bunch of something. But then, you know, I remember reading, just sort of, I could only read so much of it, but I thought about experiences. It's the horror of this event as people actually experience it. It's rather experiences at the time. It's certainly well in the sense of, you know, it generated this question about how could we do such a thing?

[53:39]

How could we use about doing such things to our goal? Just wanted to share that. Thank you so much for this. Peter and Adam grew up in Hyde Park. We have a number of people from Hyde Park here today. Anyway, you know, We forget things. Hiroshima was horrible. And I've been to the museum there. And one of the most impressive things for me that sits in my mind is a series of steps that was on a bank. It was a bank, and it was a series of steps going up. And all of the steps are charred to a dark brown, except this one little spot. It's almost like an oval. And it's a lighter color. And what it was, there was a person sitting on the steps.

[54:42]

So she got incinerated. And those steps did not get the full brunt of the explosion. And that's why they are fitted. But it goes beyond eruptions. 100,000 people died in the firebombing of Tokyo and whatnot. And that the pilots actually got sick from the stench of burning flesh that came up to them. And that's been recorded. Dresden, I think, where 70,000 people died in the firebombing of Dresden. And some of them wasn't fired. They just died from lack of oxygen. The fire sucked up all the oxygen. So it's not so much Hiroshima. Hiroshima is bad. I'll go along with all this. What is basic is what are we as a species doing to each other? This is the real question. It's just that we have found more and more new technology.

[55:45]

to inflict pain upon each other. And that's, I think, is a real plus that we have to deal with. Granted, we have the . And also, to a certain extent, I disagree having studied history. And if you read Margaret Mead and how she was brought in, she wrote Sam's Women's Sword about Japan. And in war, usually you get four casualties and one captured. And they brought her in because in World War II, they were killing a thousand Japanese and getting one captured. Just way high, because Japanese culture does not allow you to surrender. And there really was a fear that if they went in and invaded Honshi, the main island, that a million people would die, Japanese. And so in a sense, Hiroshima was a sacrificial lamb for another 900,000 people.

[56:49]

But it's still, the crux of it is, why are we doing what we do to each other? And why are we not connected to one another? That to me is, you know, I grew up like you ducking covered. I remember the Nike missiles that used to be just south of Belmont Harbor that, you know, were protecting us from the Russians and their bonds. And every day, you know, I'm My father would take me downtown and we'd go and we'd see these missiles. We're living with this fear. And I think it's that living with that fear has exacerbated our society, that we are so under the threat of dying that we just think of ourselves and we don't think of each other and how we're related to one another, unfortunately. But my biggest thing is, again, going back to what I said, for me, my megalomania, so to speak, my Moby Dick, that I may have, is the lack of connection and how we have to connect, connect, connect.

[57:57]

And that's where I think the real crux of the issue is. How can we do that? Yeah. Speaking very plainly what actually happened, what people's actual experience was, to be in some sense of understanding about that. That's the kind of thing we need to talk about. Yes, thank you, David. Yeah, I heard recently that now war in Ukraine and elsewhere is intentionally attacking civilians. That didn't happen before World War II.

[58:58]

Soldiers attacking soldiers. Since World War II, all war is war... Against millions. Against women and children. To a great extent. So yeah. All wars. Those were good for absolutely nothing. And just one other thing. That I was going to mention. And didn't. You know we had these. Air raid or out of bomb drills. Where we observed. not on your desk to what deck in the basement is if that would say does now i'm really horrified that school children today have active shooting deals it's just it's horrible along with the atom bombs which get rid of assault rifles anyway i feel so sad for the children today

[60:04]

Parents and. So anyway, this is. So we need to confess and repent that this is part of our lives and we each have. We all have made mistakes personally and our society. And so how do we feel that it's? Yes. Thank you all.

[60:30]

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