about, well, right speech but also skillful means. So, well, the right speech is one of the eightfold paths, the fourth of the Four Noble Truths. The eight are right view or understanding, right intention, right speech, which I'll talk about tonight, right action, right livelihood, which I'll talk about Sunday morning for Labor Day weekend, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. So the teaching I want to talk about tonight is from a text called the Prince Abaya Sutta. So it's a pre-Mahayana text, and it includes four aspects of right speech. And I would also say there are four aspects of skillful means.

[01:06]

So the situation in the Sutta is that Prince Abhaya has been told by one of the teachers of the time who was a competitor with the Buddha to task the there's things that Prince Abhaya was supposed to say or if he answered no, things that Prince Abhaya was supposed to say and this was to kind of trick the Buddha. So the question was, of the Lord with the Tathagata say words that are unendearing and disagreeable to others. And the Buddha answered, Prince, there is no categorical yes or no answer to that. So the plans of this other teacher were destroyed at that point.

[02:14]

And then Buddha spoke about four ways in which One could speak, one could engage in right speech. Basically the four are to speak what is true, to speak what is beneficial, to speak it at the right time when people are receptive, and to speak what is agreeable. So basically this is about speaking in a way that is correct and kind. So this is posed as how a Buddha or a teacher should speak. In the text it says, in the case of words, so this is the Buddha speaking, in the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing and disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.

[03:17]

So the Buddha says he wouldn't speak if what he was going to say would be disagreeable to others. And then he said has a number of these different cases, but the other one I'll mention, he says, in the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing and agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has sympathy for living beings. So the point of this is that right speech should be that which is helpful, beneficial. Right speech should be what is true. The right speech should be at the right time when people can hear it, when people can receive it, when people can respond based on it and what is agreeable. So These are four ways of thinking about what is right speech.

[04:23]

So in the text, this is talking about how we think. But I think this, in some ways, also applies for us as Bodhisattva practitioners to take it out of the pre-Mahayana context. And I could add a fifth aspect. to speak referring to in accord with the ancient sages. In other words, what would the ancestors do? How would the ancestors speak? So even though this is how, what a Buddha speaks, there's a way in which this is helpful for us as practitioners to think about in terms of how, what is right speech for us? The Buddha also adds that this is not something that was calculated beforehand. That this is something that the Buddha speaks truly in the situation the Buddha is in.

[05:36]

So in this case, this is also instructions for teachers. of how to speak in a way that is helpful, in a way that is true, in a way that is agreeable, and also at the right time. So if it's a situation where people can't hear it, can't receive what is being said, that would not be a right time to speak it. I think this applies not just to right speech, but also to the Mahayana practice of skillful means. This is to talk in a way, to speak in a way, to act in a way that is beneficial for all beings. And that means also, this is the basic practice of compassion.

[06:40]

That means also, to be aware of the different kinds of beings. So again, what would be not disagreeable to certain beings might be disagreeable to other beings. So skillful means is a practice of compassion. This comes from the Lotus Sutra and the Bodhisattva of Compassion, Kanzeyana Avalokiteshvara, who hears the sounds of the world. So skillful means is also, Teaching of the One Vehicle in the Lotus Sutra talks about that really all beings are doing the Buddha work, but in different ways. So skillful means is about how to respond, in a way this adds another to the four categories. This is, it's kind of like what is the right time to speak, but it's also understanding how these words, this right speech,

[07:42]

this skillful practices will be beneficial. Of course, that they are true and that they won't be disagreeable and that they're at the right time. So especially skillful means applies to how to say something at the right time. This is a practice that we could all think about in terms of how do we give or receive feedback? If you have a friend who you want to say something to that, they may or may not find disagreeable, how do you say it at a time when they can actually hear it? How do you give feedback to someone, not just because you have some idea about what they should be doing or should not be doing, but in a way that is skillful, that actually they can benefit from? So again, in some ways, these are instructions for teachers. And in Zen, there's a kind of different twist on this.

[08:45]

So again, just to repeat these four, because I think they're really helpful categories for thinking about how we speak and how we respond to others in the world and how we respond to situations in the world. To see and say what is true. To see and say what is helpful, what is beneficial. to see and say things as they are agreeable, as people will be, not find them disagreeable, but will be willing to hear them. And then again, at the right time. And then there's this other aspect, which is, you know, what would the ancestors do? What would the great masters of the past do? So we talk about the Koans, teaching stories in Zen. And in those teaching stories, a lot of times, you know, in these dialogues between teachers and students, the teachers say things that are disagreeable.

[09:52]

The teachers sometimes say no, and sometimes criticize. So there's a kind of different context to that. So sometimes, It's not just in the koans that the teachers will say no and say things that are disagreeable, but also in the Zen tradition, sometimes the teachers will be really critical of their students. And well, there are things like the Kyosaku, which was that some of you may have experienced that. I don't know if they still do it in Minnesota, Matt, use the Kyosaku, no, Most places in America, most Zen places, do not use the kisaku, but that's a stick, a big flat stick that one goes, there's people who are trained to do it, go around behind the students, sitting facing the wall. And when, there's different ways that it's done.

[10:55]

In America, it used to be that you would raise, then you would go into gassho, if you wanted to be hit by the stick, and then they would hit you, on the shoulders and sometimes really hard. But it's kind of like, you know, I used to go around the zendo instead of using a stick, massaging people's shoulders a little bit. It's the same thing. The stick would help release some of the tension. So that's an example of something that might not be agreeable. At places I sat in Japan, actually I'm thinking of a Rinzai temple where I sat in Japan, And there was a small zendo situation. Well, maybe there were a dozen or so seats, but the person going around with the stick would hit people even if they didn't ask and hard. And it was clear that there was one younger monk who was hit every time the guy passed behind him.

[12:01]

And it was sort of like a hazing thing. Anyway, that's certainly not agreeable. Was it beneficial? Was it the right time? I don't know. So the way it was used in America was mostly when the student asked for it. We don't use it anymore. I don't know if there's any, but any of the San Francisco Zen Center, any temples that use it, probably some of the Rinzai temples use it. But along with the Kiyosaku in the old teaching stories, sometimes there are stories about teacher slapping the student or hitting the student. Sometimes, I don't know if this will work on Zoom, so I'm not going to do it, but sometimes the teachers will yell loudly. I used to do this occasionally in our Zendo at Irving Park Road. I haven't tried it out on Zoom, so I won't do it. But these are, you know,

[13:02]

actions that might be seen as disagreeable. So, for Zen teachers, these are kinds of giving feedback. And sometimes in doksan, in personal interviews also, a teacher might say something that is harsh, even, or that is critical, or that is feedback, Sometimes it's good to ask, would you like some feedback? Or sometimes my teacher says, oh, would you like to give me some feedback? So there's a mutuality between teacher and student and exam. But rather than these four, what is true, what is beneficial, what is at the right time, what is agreeable, it may not seem agreeable at first. So this is part of the job of a Zen teacher.

[14:09]

As distinct from the way the Buddha taught, what is right speech? And how to say this at the right time, that's very important. That's part of skillful means, how to give strong feedback when the person can hear it or when the person needs to hear it. So there were times early on in my training with my teacher when he spoke very harshly to me, but it was helpful. It was something I needed to hear. So sometimes I speak about what's going on in the world, even if I think it might be disagreeable to some people to hear about this. Maybe we all know about all the problems in our society and in the world. And sometimes people come to do Zazen or to Zen temple because they want to feel calm and not be bothered by the things of the world.

[15:19]

But I feel like sometimes it's my responsibility to say things that might be harsh, but are things that people need to hear or that need to be said. So right now in New Orleans and Mississippi and along the Gulf Coast, people are really suffering. I heard a hundred thousand people are at homes or out of, don't have power. Maybe it's much more than that. And that there'll be parts of the certain Louisiana area that will be uninhabitable for, I don't know, weeks, a couple of weeks anyway. So like during Katrina and even more now, there will likely be leaks into neighborhoods of indigenous and African-American people who suffer the most. And of course, we're all suffering from the effects of COVID indirectly or directly.

[16:21]

There's also power plants in the area where Hurricane Ida hit. So there's flooding, there's no power. It's a very dangerous area, a very dangerous situation during Hurricane Katrina, which was exactly 16 years ago yesterday. So the Hurricane Ida hit on the anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. A lot of the chemical plants and oil facilities leaked and polluted the area. That's probably going on now even more. Now we know that fossil fuels are more expensive, actually, than sustainable energy, solar energy, and so forth. But because of subsidies, tax breaks and subsidies from the government, fossil fuel industry continues. And in fact, ExxonMobil is going to be starting oil drilling in Guyana, they announced, in the middle of the hurricane.

[17:28]

Guyana is on this on the north coast of South America, just east of Venezuela. I had to look it up myself, but it's not, it's going to be an area that's not protected. And the way they're doing it is not without protection from leaks or blowouts like there was at BP Horizon. And we know this intensified climate breakdown and ExxonMobil actually did research back in the seventies and they knew executives of ExxonMobil knew what the effects of climate damage would be and that fossil fuels would very much help cause this. But instead of changing their business plan or alerting people, they spent lots and lots of money to support climate change denial. So anyway, this is maybe harsh speech. This is not something we want to hear, but this is also one of the things that's happening.

[18:35]

And I hesitate sometimes to talk about such things. I know some people don't want to hear about it as a context and don't want to hear about it in general because it's painful and we're all in danger from climate and many other things now. But I think it's worth thinking about how do we respond skillfully in the world? How do we speak? And again, the thing about speaking agreeably is something for, or not speaking agreeably is, as in Zen teachers, is something for teachers or for Buddhists, but for all of us as, Zen practitioners as Bodhisattva practitioners dedicated to helping benefit beings and helping awaken beings. I think these four are helpful categories to think about when what we say, when we say it, how do we respond or act?

[19:51]

How do we help each other? So again, to speak what is true, what we know, what is factual and true, to speak what is beneficial. So the point I'm making about sometimes teachers speaking harshly is that sometimes that's beneficial for people to hear. What's the right time? And this is really tricky. This is the art of skillful means. How do we know when to say something that the other person won't hear and can respond to and can actually change? And then just to say what is agreeable. An example I've used many times is from a student of mine, back in California before I moved to Chicago in 2007, when I had a few different, actually a song that was made up of three different places.

[21:03]

But one of the students there was a law secretary, a law researcher, legal researcher. And in her firm, there was a woman who did not speak agreeably, was kind of nasty and mean. And Rose was patient and just didn't say anything and observed and spoke kindly to this person. And at some point, this lawyer, she said to Rose, I've been really mean, haven't I? But it was because Rose was able to speak kindly at the right times. when this person could hear it. So this has to do with how to respond to social issues, but also it has to do with how to respond to each other, how to be a good friend, good spiritual friend.

[22:05]

How do we speak? Basically, usually speak agreeably. There are these other occasions when someone needs a slap or a shout or whatever to wake up. And that's the point of what Zen teachers do is to help everybody wake up but also how do we speak in a way that's agreeable that the other person can hear? How do we say, sometimes just to give a little bit of feedback in a kindly way at the right time when the other person can hear. And this, so this is, you know, a Buddha knows this because they know how the people are thinking. And when we know it, when we're intimate with each other in Sangha, and spiritual community when we know and feel, you know, kind of have a sense of each other. Sometimes we can, if we're patient and wait, sometimes we can say something right at the right time and the other person can hear and change.

[23:09]

So, you know, sometimes we feel critical of people around us in our work situation. whatever, but rather than being critical, how do we try and be helpful, be beneficial, and to help them to see that there's some way in which they're being disagreeable or not being helpful. So this skillful means practice is a real art. It's not easy. And yet, well, for Buddhas, theoretically, they know how everybody's thinking and feeling. And sometimes for Zen teachers, we know our students well enough to know when it's a good time to give some harsh feedback. Most of the time, we just have to, you know, skillful means is trial and error. for those of us who are not yet Buddhas.

[24:13]

How do we make mistakes? How do we try and give feedback or say something or respond in the world to situations in the world and society, but also with our friends and family and with each other? How do we pay attention? And then when it might be the right time, try something. So for Bodhisattva practitioners, we need to make mistakes. And sometimes people talk about making the right mistake or making helpful mistakes. So we learn skillful means by trial and error, by trying things and seeing what the result is and paying attention. So all of this requires paying attention. You know, we could apply this to ourselves then. How do we sit in a way for ourselves that is helpful, that is agreeable?

[25:18]

But is it the right time? And it's true. So as we're sitting, sometimes we have to give ourselves feedback. Oh, I'm slouching, or I'm leaning one way or another. Or a teacher in a physical zendo, it's hard to do on Zoom, sometimes I would go around and just make postural suggestions. not corrections, but just suggestions. Oh, you might try sitting like this instead of like that. Anyway, all of this is trial and error and involves making mistakes, but learning from mistakes. So for Bodhisattva practitioners, skillful means, again, it's an art, but We try and be beneficial, we try and say what's true, but we make mistakes and so we learn from them. And we also are patient, so we may wait for the right time. Sometimes the best thing to do is to not do anything, just to sit there, to not say anything to somebody who needs some help in shifting how they're behaving or speaking to others.

[26:25]

This is a problem now when uh, in our world when, uh, there's so much division and, uh, many of us have people, we have family or friends that, um, we might disagree with, uh, but trying to just say, oh, you're, you're, you're wrong or you're stupid or whatever, uh, you know, it may not be helpful. So it's difficult. This is an art that's really applicable right now. How do we talk to people who disagree with us or who disagree with us strongly? So maybe we can find out what is agreeable to talk about with each other. What are the things we can agree on? Anyway, this is all the realm of skillful means and it requires paying attention. And speaking what's true, speaking what's helpful, how to say it at the right time so somebody can actually hear it.

[27:31]

If you're just going around trying to convert people to your point of view, that's usually not gonna be helpful. So how do we, Sometimes make mistakes, but pay attention. And sometimes the practice of patience is necessary, which means sometimes not saying or doing anything, but paying attention and being ready and willing to say or do something when it might be helpful, when we think it'll be helpful. and then we'll see if it is. So anyway, so I want to open this up for discussion to talk about right speech, about skillful means, about how we actually can be helpful with each other, how we can speak truth, how we can be agreeable, or, you know, when are the times to be disagreeable? And that's, maybe not something I would recommend. And also how to say or do something at the right time, at the appropriate time.

[28:35]

So there's one of the great koans or teaching stories is a monk asked Master Yunmen, what is the teaching of a Buddha's whole lifetime? So in this text, this principle by a Sutta, we're hearing these, the teaching of a Buddha's lifetime in terms of these four categories. But Yunmin said an appropriate response. So we try to find appropriate responses to a situation, to a friend or family member or spiritual friends, fellow Sangha member. And so it's kind of an art. And sometimes it's better to just say or do nothing until we're ready, until they're ready. Anyway, I want to open this up for comments, responses, questions about right speech and skillful means.

[29:43]

So please, give you responses or reflections. If I can see you, I'll call on you. And maybe, Alex, you can help me. For people who I can't see, you can go to the participants window and raise your hand. And Karen has already raised her hand. So go ahead, Karen. Thank you so much. I don't think I've ever made a connection between right speech and skillful means. As you laid it out today, it made so much sense to me. So thank you for that. Something you said brought a question to my mind. It was something that you said about skillful means in meditation and zazen and I find myself struggling with knowing the right time to meditate.

[30:51]

There are times when I can sort of maintain a very good routine and do it every morning or on a set schedule of mornings. And then there are times when that feels hard, if not even impossible. And um, than trying to force myself to do it becomes actually an unskillful effort. And I was wondering if you could comment on that. That's a wonderful practical question. Thank you. Yeah. And again, I don't, well, I don't think there's one right answer. So, you know, this idea of acting or speaking at the right time means speaking at the right time for each person. So there's not one answer for everyone. So I think the traditionally in residential practice, people sit early in the morning and that's one traditional way.

[31:55]

And for a lot of people having a schedule where you sit at the same time every day is helpful. However, I think as you indicated, sometimes that can be burdensome. So, you know, if it's disagreeable and you feel you can't sit at the time that's scheduled, that's okay to sit whenever it does work for you. So personally, I like to sit in the morning, but sometimes I get involved in, various other commitments, and I end up sitting late in the afternoon. So I think to be flexible is also part of this. That's also part of skillful means. To be flexible with yourself, to be flexible with others. And sometimes, some days maybe, if you don't sit, that's okay. You don't have to give up sitting forever if you miss a day.

[32:57]

But try and find, Try and find a time that works for you, whether it's in the morning or afternoon or even evening. It's different for different people. But also, sometimes you can just suddenly find, oh, I can sit now. And, you know, I know some people who, you know, take a break at work and during a lunch break will just sit maybe in their chair and do Zazen. And actually going through the day, it's helpful too, when you're feeling stressed or tense or whatever, just to stop and pause and actually take a breath or three or four or five, just to feel, just to connect with your breathing. So all of us through our Zazen practice have a relationship with our breaths. we can enjoy our inhale and exhale.

[34:03]

And so sometimes even if you can't, even on a day when you haven't sat, or even if you have sat in the morning, you might be in some situation during the day when you need to hit the pause button and just take a few breaths, just come back to being present and upright. So anyway, this is also a kind of art, you know, and there's not one right way for everybody. This is part of the idea of skillful means is that each person has their own appropriate time. So that's the part of these four. What is the right time? So for yourself, what is the right time? I don't know if that responds to your question. I hope so. Thank you very much. You're welcome. So Mark has his hand up. Hello, everyone. Two quick comments.

[35:03]

And thank you for having me tonight. This is my first time joining the zoom community. One is, this is really resonating with me right now. Because I'm having, I'm finding myself having some very difficult conversations with people that I really care about, about being vaccinated or not. And, and now that the Pfizer vaccine has been fully mandated by the FDA. I feel like these conversations are resurging. I feel like it's an opportunity to say, okay, you were hesitant before, but look now. And so I'm finding myself in these conversations. And so I just think this tonight was very on point for that, about waiting for the right time, because there was a lot of pushback before. And the second comment is that, You were mentioning about beneficial mistakes or making the right mistake. And it really reminded me of something I think I heard Pema Chodron talk about, where she says, fail, fail again, fail better.

[36:06]

And I think that sometimes I can speak for myself, I get wrapped up in, am I doing this right? Am I, you know, and learning to be kind to yourself and that failure is actually a way towards a goal in some ways, and it actually can bring you closer, I think, really tied in with what you were saying about making the right mistake. So those both really resonated with me. So thank you. You're very welcome. Where are you coming to us from, Mark? Old Irving Park. Oh, you're on You were in Chicago. I am in Chicago, yes. I attended the temple several years ago. OK, great, great. Yeah, and welcome, and please come again. So yeah. The thing about making mistakes is, it's not that, you know, well, one of my favorite songs is the song of the Jewel Mary Samadhi, which we sometimes chant.

[37:10]

And there's a section where it talks about, that can't be translated as making mistakes is auspicious. It's not that we should try and make mistakes, but we do. We're fallible. We don't, and especially when we're trying to, you know, the example you gave of talking to people about vaccines is a good one. We don't always know how to say something like that that might be controversial to someone. And so we're likely to make mistakes. There's one of the Shobo Genzo essays by Dogen, the founder of this tradition in the early 13th century in Japan, or who continued the tradition from China into Japan. There's one of his essays, he talks about falling on the ground. And when you fall, he says something like, when you fall on the ground, get up from the ground. But then he says, when you fall on the ground, get up from the sky.

[38:14]

Or when you fall into the sky, get up from the ground. So, you know, there's not one right way. In each situation, we have to find our way to, when we think we've made a mistake, sometimes what we think is a mistake, isn't a mistake. So I mentioned the Eightfold Path, and one of them is right understanding. But part of right understanding is not holding to any particular view of what is right view or right understanding. To be willing to not know what to do. So in terms of the example of vaccines, in terms of these four, to say what's true, well, clearly the vaccines help because the places where the COVID is spreading and the variants are spreading is where people haven't been vaccinated. What is helpful?

[39:15]

How do you say something that's helpful? And how do you say it at the right time? And how do you say it in an agreeable way? These are kind of good guidances for us in terms of how we deal with all these things. So anyway, thank you for your question. Other comments or responses or reflections about right speech or about skillful response in the world? Hi, Ko. The thing that's been rising for me is, again, I really like breaking it down to the four categories, but then it really kicks the can into the discernment processes and what's the right time, and also what's beneficial. What I think is beneficial may not be beneficial. So to have the intention to do something beneficial is useful, but just because I have that intention doesn't mean that's what's going to come up for me.

[40:20]

So what I was thinking about as far as discernment, how useful zazen is, because when I come to the stillness, what rises in me is usually so much closer, so much better failure than when I'm in the momentum of the response. Yes, so right attention is one of the part of the Eightfold Path and it's very important. So we can make mistakes, but if we intend to be beneficial, if we intend to be kind, if we intend to try to respond at an appropriate time, that makes a big difference. And it's okay if we make mistakes, we will make mistakes. As human beings, we don't understand everything. We don't know everything. But yeah, what you say about Zazen, I agree.

[41:25]

It's very helpful to have this practice of just sitting upright, enjoying our inhale and exhale, feeling what we feel, having the thoughts and feelings running through and letting them go, coming back to being present. This practice helps ground us in some ultimate context, some universal ultimate context. And when we're acting from that, and it's not that we have to think about that, it's not that we have to think about what's the universal truth, but just having a practice of zazen and continuing that practice and doing it over time, it starts to become part of our heart, mind, part of our body, part of how we respond off the cushion too. So that doesn't mean we're not gonna make mistakes, but to have some sense you know, Suki Roshi talked about constantly losing our balance against this background of perfect balance.

[42:31]

So we kind of connect with that background in Zazen. So yes, thank you, Ko. Jerry, hi. Hi, I was thinking about what Ko was saying and it made me think about that part of right speech is also right listening that how we listen to what people tell us and especially when she said you know if you have the right intention sometimes we need to take a step back when we hear something that might be disagreeable and say well wait you know they're not trying to be mean here or you know that we should give the other person the benefit of a doubt that they're really well-intentioned, and maybe we don't want to hear it. And that's not to say whether they're right, wrong, or indifferent, but there's something about right listening that's a willingness to accept information that's coming your way, or feedback, or a thought that's coming your way.

[43:36]

Takes a certain amount of skill as well, I think. Yes, yes, yes, yes, thank you. So in some ways, the definition of compassion in Buddhism is, we could say, right listening. It's not part of the Eightfold Path, but maybe it is in there somewhere. But yes, the bodhisattva of compassion is the one who hears the sounds and cries of the world. So listening comes first. This is the practice of dynamic patience, of paying attention. And it helps, as you say, it's very clearly, if we listen to somebody, if we hear what their view is, how they're feeling, maybe we can find something in common that we can speak about, even if we imagine at first that there's nothing in common.

[44:37]

But just to listen carefully, is compassion. And yeah, I would, I think, so thank you, Jerry. I think that that background of listening and listening means being willing to learn, being willing to hear other views so that we're not caught by our own view. So very important. So thank you. Other comments, questions, responses. Yes, Matt, hi. Thank you for your talk, Tuggin. Very important and very nuanced topic. And thank you, Jerry, for bringing up listening and compassion. I was thinking when you were talking, you know, we're programmed throughout our childhood to give an answer right away in school. Like, we know the answer. We don't think about timeliness. You get rewarded for being the first one to give the right answer and you have to deprogram yourself from that.

[45:39]

So I love this topic. I especially have been working with timeliness and agreeableness, right? Because it's really tough to not give someone the answer, even if it might not be the right time. You know, there's a koan, I forget which one, but it's where the student is asking the teacher for the answer and the teacher knows and won't tell him. And then years later, the student is, thank you for your kindness. Thank you for not telling me. And I love that story, because it's so true. When you tell someone right away, you're taking away their opportunity of figuring it out for themselves. And that's not helpful. Last thing, and maybe you can talk more about this, Taigan. I am with you. I think we should talk more about the environment. I think part of the reason we're in the mess we are now is because it's not very agreeable to talk about it. It's kind of a downer. But it is reality. And if we ignore it, That's not very timely. Too often we don't talk about it because we don't want to be a downer.

[46:42]

So I don't know. I mean, talking about the environment, clearly it's true. Clearly it's beneficial to talk about this, but I've been working with this and I wonder if you have as well. When do we talk about it and how do we do it in a way that it doesn't have to be agreeable? Like with racial justice, sometimes it's tough to hear this stuff, but we have to face our suffering. So anything you have to say about that? Yes, thank you for that. Yeah, part of what, so we do need to face the realities of injustice in our country and in our world of climate damage, which is, I mean, it's obviously happening, the enhanced hurricanes on the Gulf Coast, the fires all over the West Coast, the intense heat. I haven't heard if this August in Chicago has been hotter than average, but it has seemed very hot at times.

[47:50]

Climate damage is happening. So we do need to talk about it. And my job is to, I feel like I need to, as a clergy person, to put it that way, to respond to things happening in the world. So I do talk about that sometimes. My job is also to take care of this wonderful, deep, ancient practice and teaching tradition So explicitly my job as a Zen teacher is to keep this practice and teaching alive and continue it. And I don't think those things are separate, but they may seem separate. So sometimes I talk about, about Buddhist practices and all of a sudden teaching stories and so forth. But yeah, I think it's helpful to, talk about what's happening to the climate, but not just as a downer.

[48:52]

There are things we can do. It's, you know, we may have passed certain tipping points so that we know that there will continue to be climate catastrophes, but there are things we can do. There are ways we can each act in our own life to support, you know, as a consumer to support things that are help more beneficial for the environment and to, you know, to respond to the people with power in the world, Congress people, corporations, whatever, to encourage, ending fossil fuels, energy systems. We have to do that soon, you know, or else things are going to get much, much worse. So even if things are bad, and even if some of the effects of climate damage will continue, how bad it will be for us and for

[49:59]

future generations for children and grandchildren, we can make a difference with that in what we do now and what we do in the next five years and the next 10 years. There are things we can do and you know it's true that Renewable energy, solar power and other sustainable energy sources actually are more effective now, are more inexpensive. And the fossil fuel companies and nuclear power companies anyway, they're being subsidized. So we can respond about that. We can talk about that. We can, there are various groups that are acting to try and lobby for change. So we can support that. So there are actually things that we can do. Things that will make a difference in how bad the climate catastrophes are.

[51:02]

So that's, so, To say that, and I think this is also true about racial injustice, for example, or about the threats to democracy from white supremacists or health care and COVID. To talk about this is not just to be a downer and not just to feel hopeless. So if I thought these things were hopeless, I would never talk about them. But there are things we can do in all of these realms to actually make a difference. Everything we do makes a difference. This is part of the law of cause and effect of karma, that we make a difference in the world. And we all have this ancient twisted karma we chanted about. and we all have, you know, causes and conditions that obstruct the way, as the Ehekosōtsukanmon says, but there are ways to respond that will help.

[52:05]

So, and I think this is something that I'm not, haven't been so good at myself. I think I need to speak about all this more in terms of, the possibilities, the hopeful possibilities. As bad as things are, we can take a bad song and make them better, you know? Anyway, thank you for that, Matt. So we have time for one or two more comments, if anyone has anything else they'd like to say about skillful means, about right speech, about listening, Oh, Karen has her hand up. Did you have something else Karen. Yes, if there's, if there's no other comments I appreciate an opportunity to comment again, or ask another question. What is truth in the context of these teachings?

[53:09]

I think that is, in my mind, a burning question, both when it comes to the discussion about vaccines and when it comes to the discussion about climate change. Because I feel like there's an agreement here that scientifically proven facts are considered true, but there might be people who don't have that confidence in science. And I wonder how to engage that in a context of right speech and skillful means. Good question. And I'm tempted to respond not in terms of the situations that you described, but in terms of dharma, that truth is reality. What is reality?

[54:12]

Of course, we have, you know, I was talking about right understanding and that right view means that we try and see things clearly and we listen and try and get information and we try and discern what is what is false information, but also that means listening, listening to others. It means not holding on to your particular view, but being willing to learn. So another way to talk about truth is suchness, just this, just what's in front of us. So we have this practice of facing the wall and whatever comes up, How do we pay attention to the suchness of that? Letting the thoughts and feelings go, they come again, but there's some space in between sometimes. And even with the thoughts and feelings, there's a space where we can be present and pay attention to what is.

[55:16]

And then there's also one of the really helpful teachings in Buddhism is about the two truths. And there's all kinds of ways that that gets spinned around and we end up with the five degrees in Soto Zen or the fourfold Dharmadhatu in Huayen. But the two truths basically is there's the ultimate truth and there's the conventional truth and they're both true. So ultimately our idea of ourselves is a fiction, it's a delusion. and we are caught in many delusions as human beings. And we can't see everything. We have limited faculties, perceptually, intellectually, spiritually. But there is this perfect balance in the background, this ultimate universal truth.

[56:18]

And we kind of get some sense of that in Zazen. more or less. Sometimes we have some dramatic experience of it, that happens, or we get some understanding of that. But there's also conventional truth. Conventional truth is that we have to follow. When the light turns green, we can go. When the light turns red, we stop. Or there are people who are addicted to fake news now. which I can call fake news because it's obvious to me. But then how do we be kind to those people and listen to them and hear what we have in common? So conventional truth is a kind of reality, a kind of truth as well. So is there one truth or reality? In some sense, yes. In some sense, there are many truths, many realities. So navigating that is a great challenge and just stopping and sitting helps.

[57:28]

So good luck. So if there's any, I think we have time for one more comment, if anyone has something. Hi, Jason. Hello. So, Matt, you brought up a really good point and, uh, and Teigen's answer was very eloquent and I appreciate both those points quite a bit. Um, the, the thing that I've been kind of mulling over and thinking about in terms of how to approach those hard topics isn't even necessarily to, um, it's not about sometimes trying to prove a point, but to illustrate where you're like, where you are coming from or where your heart is or where the beauty lies.

[58:33]

So sometimes instead of talking about the climate collapse and the utter breakdown that's happening now, it's, Oh, did you hear that bird? That bird is such and such. And like, Framing the beauty of something often leads somebody to think on their own about, oh, wow, what is happening? What is going on? So I have a tendency to just think in those type of terms. And I'm trying to be better at trying to speak that stuff more often. I don't know. It's always been more helpful to me anyways. Yeah, thank you, Jason. So in the midst of all of the difficulties, of course, we still can sit sasan. We can still walk around and enjoy the trees and the flowers and listen to the birds. And I live near the Chicago River, and I like to walk over there sometimes.

[59:40]

And yeah, there's lots of things to enjoy in our lives. even if the world is burning, or maybe it's not, maybe they're not separate. Yeah, so I don't know if you have this in New York, Jason, upstate where you were, but recently in Chicago, and I haven't heard them the last couple of days, but maybe I've just been in the wrong places, but we've had cicadas or cicadas, I'm not sure how you pronounce them, but they have this rasping sound that's kind of constant. And people in Chicago have been exposed to that a lot. Some people think it's irritating. So the sounds differ in terms of pleasing or harsh, it says in the Sando Kai. I kind of like the sound of the cicadas, but anyway, There's all kinds of things to appreciate in the world. So thank you for adding that, Jason.

[60:43]

It's important. So maybe on that note, we can close with the four bodhisattva vows, and then we'll have announcements. So Alex, if you can lead us in the four bodhisattva vows, please. Beings are numberless. I vow to free them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to realize it. Beings are numberless.

[61:46]

I vow to free them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to realize it. Beings are numberless. I vow to free them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I bow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I bow to realize it.

[62:52]

So thank you, everybody. This is a time now for announcements. And I have a bunch of schedule announcements that you want to share. So during announcement time is also a time when everyone is welcome to announce things that are happening. And the things I'm going to announce are all on the Ancient Dragon website, so you can look there and schedule. But I wanted to mention this Friday evening, maybe Jason, were you going to say, talk about that, that we have a monthly reading aloud of the Flower Ornament Sutra, which is a wonderful, strange, psychedelic, flowery description of bodhisattva practice. It's a long, it's a big sutra, long sutra. It's about 1600 pages. I think we're maybe a third of the way into it.

[63:58]

Anyway, the first Friday of every month is seven o'clock in the evening, Chicago time. You can share or you can just listen Next Sunday, as I mentioned, it's Labor Day weekend, and I'm gonna be talking about right livelihood. Monday evening, a week from today, Levi Smith, who's part of our Hyde Park group, will be talking. I wanna particularly mention Sunday the 12th, the second Sunday in September, instead of the Dharma talk, that we usually have after Zazen, we will have a Sangha meeting, and to let people know about what's happening in terms of our search for a new temple building, since we had to abandon the building at Irving Park, uh, and, uh, also looking at possibilities for, uh, interim rental space, maybe one evening a week and, and Sunday morning.

[65:09]

So we've met we're making pro progress on that process. So the song committee will be a chance to report on that and to have discussion, uh, with everyone. So that's Sunday morning, the 12th of September. Um, The following Sunday, the 19th, Paul Disko, who's our Sado, our visiting teacher, will be speaking. Other events coming up Saturday, the 25th, Gershon Laurel Ross, one of our priests, will be doing a haiku nature walk. So you can look on the website for information about that. And then the 26th of September, Paul Lazarus will be leading an all-day sitting Either in person or online, you can do it either way at her martial arts studio and she'll be giving the Sunday morning talk that morning. Again, all of this is on the website schedule.

[66:11]

I also want to mention that October 3rd, the first Sunday in October, from 1 to 4.30 p.m., I'm going to be doing a seminar on Dogen's environmental teachings. So a number of his essays are really deep dives into environmental awareness, but also he connects that plus the one that we chanted. So for Dogen, our appreciation of nature, all of it, our appreciation of the landscapes of the world connects to our devotional practice. So I'll be talking about that, that Sunday afternoon. So anyway, all of that's on the website, as I said. Any other questions or announcements? Well, thank you, everybody, for joining us. Usually we have to take some time for after this, like we used to after announcements and drama talks back at Irving Park in the kitchen, we do this on Zoom.

[67:24]

So we just have a chance to hang out a little bit and just chat. So if you would like to, if you have to go, please have a good evening, but anyone who wants to stay on and join that is welcome too. So thank you all very much again.

[67:41]

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