Well, expectation, I think nothing to transfer anyway in the sea world. If you see that there is something, expectation, you have to face it because expectation is something reflected in the sea world and it's not something, it's not, there is no place to throw it away or there is no particular place to bring it into some place. So expectation becomes just a form of expectation reflected in the Buddhist world. So very naturally that reflection of the expectation comes up in the realm of form of expectation in the A world. So practically speaking, you have to, anyway, through that expectation, form of expectation

[01:09]

in the A world, without touching it, without touching it, you have to go through, you have to know it, what the expectation is, then you have to, to know it is just without touching it, means, without touching it means pass through as soon as possible. This is our practice. This is a practice, how do we know being in the sea world, that is our practice. If you do, if you are in the sea world, you can do like that. What you, John, John, your name John, you're talking about the presence of the sea world,

[02:28]

person you touch, I think, there is no particular answer, okay? But you should, you should see your life for a long run. If you try to deal with that situation for a short period of time, so-called, you know, 20 years and 30 years, you're really irritated. You don't know how to deal with that one, you know? So anyway, you have to live, that's why you have to live in the sea world. Sea world is huge, so even though you can't do it exactly in this life, maybe you can do it in the next life, but the point is, you have to make every possible effort to practice that, okay?

[03:28]

Without touching it, you have to go through as best as you can, moving toward eternal life, okay? Life after life. In other words, it is a possibility, constant possibility you have. Don't think it's impossible, no. Don't give up. So then, it's just a situation you're in, you work with that, and you find that, you know, maybe, when you find, you know... That means taking care, taking care. For instance, maybe if you have a family, maybe the question is, how do you deal with the family, you know? As an object, you're an object, it becomes a burden, don't you? It's a huge burden. So the question is, not seeing the family as an object, no.

[04:36]

Because objects are completely something beings, you know, beyond your speculation. Now, under certain circumstances, some object becomes a part of your life, that's it. So no problem, practically speaking. Then now, you see the object as a part of your life, and then you think, oh, that's a burden. That is already, you stay in the A world, okay? But anyway, you have to continue standing in the C world, means, how do you deal with this object? You want to stay for long, thinking with lots of ideas, this is a burden, or this is not a burden. Whichever you make a choice, same problem happens. So the question is, how do you deal with this object? So as best as you can, without touching, you have to go through.

[05:39]

Anyway, when you take care of objects, that's all we can do. Don't you think so? Yeah, well I think it's, you have to enjoy it. Not always enjoy, you have to enjoy the many things, you know? Bad things and good things. I don't know the meaning of enjoy, enjoyment. Enjoyment means to satisfy? No. To be there and to see the universe reflected in the situation that you're in, to see it in the people that you're with, in the life that you're in. Suppose you could see the ocean in your family, or in the people there. You could say that we're all.

[06:42]

Yes. Just one, yeah. Yes, one together. Yes, but practically speaking, it's not so easy to deal with, practically speaking. Yes. Still, that idea, you have to throw away that idea, you know? Always. You shouldn't forget that idea, but you have to throw it away. Constantly you have to see that universe. Anyway, you have to walk in the universe, in the seaworld. But you can't stay with the seaworld, what you have believed, so you have to throw it away. That is a seaworld, don't you think so? Yeah. Yeah, seaworld. That is a seaworld. I wonder if it's more about keeping the mind like long fences, I don't understand that.

[08:00]

Mind is fences and microphones and exactly, so not separate. Don't see the mind in the microphone or outside and out of the microphone, no. That microphone is mind. Microphone is you. That's me. Why do you think we use the word fences and walls? Because that usually brings up the idea of boundaries. Objectively, we use, we see the microphone. At that time, well, we cannot see that, we cannot deal with the microphone in a proper way. So I always say, you know, dealing with the microphone as a material. But if you deal with the microphone in a proper way, anyway, microphone is exactly your life. Microphone comes up to your life and dealing with.

[09:03]

No discrimination between microphone and you. At that time, there is a kindness and compassion, we can say. That is called microphone is mind. Mind is microphone. But through the common sense, usual sense of, even though I say microphone is mind, it is already heuristic. You understand? Okay. I'm not sure still on why the word fences and walls seem like a very, it seems as though there's a special connotation to using those.

[10:05]

Mind means also, it's not our conscious mind. Mind is universe, is sea world. All beings reflect in the sea world. That is mind, oneness. But it seems like you've been saying that keep, your point is to keep your mind like fences, walls, trees, birds, microphone, that, that, that, that. Now why did Dovind Senji particularly use the terms fences and walls, which seem to bring up, instead of something very broad, it seems to bring up something very specific, which is kind of like a wall, is like a boundary, an ending. Which seems, seems to go against the idea of kind of a mind that is. No, no. No, it means that there is fences and walls, and there is the fences and walls are kind

[11:16]

of a presentative of all beings, you know, including visible, invisible, trees, birds, snows, et cetera. Then they use, we have a technical term, a little bit of a rhythmical term, that shouheki, ga-ryaku means, shou means fences, shouheki means walls, you know, and ga-ryaku, ga means tile, and ryaku means pebbles in itself. Do you mean, originally there's no connotation that we're emphasizing? No, yeah, no, no particular. I think that is confusing in English, because immediately you think we're talking about the wall instead of kind of a closed end. Solid form. That's right. Uh-huh. No, I don't think so. Now, on the other term is mountains and rivers, but rivers means including water, et cetera,

[12:25]

you know, and also you use the skies, the space, and... So,

[13:16]

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