September 1975 talk, Serial No. 00079

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KR-00079

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My lineage belongs to the Meho line. The Sukirochi's lineage belongs to the Gassan line. Most of the Zen temples belong to Gassan. It looks like all of Gassan's line goes from Tenkei Densan. Is that so? Yes. So Tenkei Densan is only one from that point on. Only one what? It looks like only one goes on. No, no, not only one. Oh, many more? That's why at the unsullied lines. Here, lots of them. These lines don't continue into... Oh, of course it continues. Well, this is a real chart. So, I put the mark. It's very hard to find where is Tenkei Densan.

[01:08]

It takes a long time. Yes, no, it's not from here. Another one. No, no. That's history. Not each year. Yes. So, many of the Iken are very complicated. One character. That's Kaisan? Yes. This is Kai. Kai and San. San means a mountain, literally, but it means a temple. Zen temple has the name San.

[02:13]

For instance, Bodhisattva Zendo. Before the name of Bodhisattva Zendo, in Japan we have a particular name. I'm looking after the names of the places. So, this is Mount San Francisco. Mount San Francisco Bodhisattva Zendo. How do you say it in Japanese? Sokozan? Sokozan, yes. Sokozan. Sokozan. Bodhisattva. Bodhisattva Z. Or, Bodhisattva In. Or, Bodhisattva Ken. Either way. We have In, Ji, or Ken, or An. You can use 1, 2, 3, 4.

[03:15]

My temple is Kaizo In. Usually we use this letter, Ji. This is Ji. So, Ji, Ji. And, So, Ji, Ji, and E, He, Ji. Or, you can use Ken, or you can use An. Okay. So, Gassan's works is... Gassan's works. Kana. Kana Hōgō. Kana Hōgō. Kana means katakana. Katakana. Not the Chinese character, kana. So, Hōgō is dumb word.

[04:18]

Dumb word. Kana Hōgō. Hōgō. Already, Kana? Now, we're using the Chinese letter, too. Like, Shōbō Genzo. Gassan took the position of the way of his teaching, in terms of discourse, on Gōi. Gōi Setsu, do you... Are you familiar with Gōi Setsu? I'm ready. Gōi. Gōi Setsu, the discourse on the Gōi five ranks. It is the sort of Zen philosophical... Zen philosophy, anyway. Zen philosophy. It's called Gōi Setsu. Gōi Setsu. First, Tōzan Zen Master.

[05:25]

Tōzan Zen Master in China. Tōzan Zen Master in China. 08, 07, 08, 06, 08, 06, 09. Tōzan Zen Master made its original, the original of Gōi Setsu, Zen philosophy. They made the original... Well... Okay, and... Sōzan, his disciple, Tōzan's disciple, Sōzan, Sōzan, 00 to 901, So-Zan polished carefully Cho-Zan's Go-Ii-Setsu, and So-Zan's disciple, named Eka, edited them.

[06:43]

And Koki, also So-Zan's disciple, annotated them. So, one, two, three, four monks completed the Go-Ii-Setsu. Okay, Go-Ii-Setsu. You can find a little explanation of Go-Ii-Setsu in the Zen Dust. Okay, To-Zan Zen Master set up simply the five categories of Zen philosophical thought, which is called Go-Ii.

[07:50]

First is Real Reality. It's called Sho. Real Reality. Second is Hen. Hen is apparent. Apparent. [...] Third is Sho-Chu-Hen. Sho-Chu-Hen. Sho means Real Reality and Chu is Within. Within. Hen is apparent. So, apparent within real reality.

[08:59]

Fourth, the Hen-Chu-Sho. Hen-Chu-Sho. Hen-Chu-Sho means Real Reality within apparent. And the fifth is So-Ken-Tai-Rai. So-Ken-Tai-Rai. So means mutual. Ken means integration. Integration. Mutual integration. So-Ken-Tai means with. With. Tai. Embrace, anyway.

[10:04]

Tai-Rai means come. Coming. I don't know how to translate. So maybe the interpenetration of real reality and apparent. Maybe so. It's not the exact right translation, but anyway. And that's To-Zan's original category. Category of sort of Zen Buddhist philosophy. Zen philosophical thought. So-Zan, according to the So-Zan Zen Master, he set up the five categories a little bit different from To-Zan. One is Sho-Chu-Hen. Sho-Chu-Hen. Second is Hen-Chu-Sho.

[11:11]

Hen-Chu-Sho. And third is Sho-Chu-Rai. Sho-Chu-Rai. Sho-Chu-Rai, yes. Rai means coming. Coming. Sho-Chu-Rai. And what is Hen-Chu-Shi? Hen-Chu-Shi. Shi. Shi is arrival. Arrival. Arrival. Arrival and Hen is apparent. Hen-Chu-Shi and the fifth is Ken-Chu-To.

[12:12]

To is also arrival, but a little bit different meaning from Shi. Shi is this one. And To is this one and like this. We use mostly in our daily life the same meaning. Both are mostly the same meaning. We arrive at San Francisco, something like that. Ken means integration. So, Hen-Chu, Hen-Chu-Shi is arrival and apparent. And Ken-Chu-To, Ken means, well, it's very hard to translate it. Ken is integration and Chu is within and To is not arrival.

[13:20]

A being, To means a being, a being is constantly, perpetually. Perpetually right here, right now, as it is. That is To. So, that is To. So, in Zen-Daz, she translates unity. Unity, unity at T. Hmm. Well, whether you attain or not, you are already there. This is To. So, mutual integration, it's not something what you have to learn or study

[14:25]

because you are already mutual integration. So, you must be with mutual integration from moment to moment. This is called Ken-Chu-To. Dogen Zenji says you should see the walking of the mountain. According to the fourth rank, Hen-Chu-Sho, arrival at the apparent. It means the mountain is mountain. Mountain is mountain, but it's not good enough. You should see the walking of the mountain. It's called Ken-Chu-To. Ah. But in China, Sekisō Sōen, Um, Sekisō Sōen, Sekisō Sōen,

[15:27]

Sekisō Sōen, Sekisō Sōen, Sekisō Sōen, There it is. Six, four, three. And six, four, three. OK. Six, four, three. Six, four, three. Eight, six, three. The one, oh, three, nine. Six, four, three. Was the seventh generation from Linzai the master. He set up a different way from the Tozang and Sozang the master. Difference point is the fourth one, fourth one.

[16:31]

He said the ken, chu, shi, ken, chu, shi. Ken, chu, shi. Ken means mutual integration, mutual penetration. Or chu within the shi is arrival. So arrival at the mutual penetration, mutual penetration. But according to the Sozang, he said the arrival at the operant. That's different. Arrival at operant means mounting, it's mounting. Mounting is mounting. And not necessarily the arrival at the interpenetration.

[17:39]

Well, in the first stage, first stage you see the mounting is mounting. Dogen Zen says, according to the second stage, Dogen Zen says it's not, it's not mounting. Third stage, Dogen says mounting is mounting. Mounting is mounting, and this is ken, chu, shi. Well, not ken, chu, shi, not the arrival at the interpenetration. Because interpenetration is not something which you have to arrive, because you are already there. So that's why we have fifth rank, ken, chu, toh. That time, the walking of the mountain. Which one did Dogen say is mountains? The first mountains are mountains?

[18:42]

Mountains, yes. These mountains, well, maybe so, if I show it to you hand. Show it to you hand. The operant within, show, real reality. Well, this is the first, mounting is mounting. As the first stage I mentioned, it's not, well, this is a little bit deep. So this is a very common sensory understanding. So down is down. It's in a down, like that. But this one, show it to you hand. According to the show it to you hand, I see the down. Well, down is a little bit beautiful man.

[19:46]

It's not necessarily who is that. Hi. You said seki-so-so-en, the fourth rank within is ken, chu, shi. Seki-so-so-en, you said, has fourth rank. Ken, chu, shi. Ken, chu, shi. But in that system is fifth rank also ken, chu, toh? Yes. So ken, chu, shi, and ken, chu, toh. Yes. Seems almost the same. Seems, yes. Seems. Seems. Seems. Sugiwachi used very often, it looks like. Looks like the same. Looks like the same. It's like the difference is just between shi and toh. Shi and toh. You mean this? No, no. You said that seki-so-so-en says fourth rank is ken, chu, shi. Arrival? Yeah. At penetration? Right.

[20:47]

Not ken, chu, shi, but ken, chu, shi. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So between ken, chu, shi, and ken, chu, toh, seems very little difference because you said shi and toh is almost the same character. No, no. The seki-so plays the ken, chu, shi in the fourth rank. Oh, no fifth one? No, he has. Oh. He said. He put the fifth one same. Oh, I see. But this is not. Different. OK. OK. Is this OK? Five or 10 minutes, please. So the seki-so's five ranks influenced

[21:48]

the Chinese Rinzai Zen and Soro Zen and were prevailingly known well by all Zen teachers in China who were interested in using them in order to guide Zen monks. But Gassan, the master, adopted A-D or P-T-E-D, adopted the toh-san's five ranks again and used it for guiding his monks. So Gassan's ideas of five ranks would influence the development of the Soro Zen in the last half year of the medieval ages of Japan. But next time I will explain that.

[22:49]

Medieval in the. OK. OK. Meho and Gassan both focused on solidifying the foundation of the Soro Zen teachings on the basis of the kaizans, their teacher kaizans. Their outlook on the Soro Zen in Japan was not different from the Soro Zen, one of the five Zen schools in China. This understanding of the Soro Zen means really to be reconciled with the status of the Japanese Rinzai. So they tried. The Gassan's and Meho's way of teaching

[23:52]

are very open-minded to accept the Rinzai and Rinzai Zen, particularly. So under the guidance of, as mentioned before, under the guidance of kaizans and masters, the Rinzai, some of the Rinzai Zen masters practiced. And also the Kyo-o, [...] who was one of the Rinzai Zen peace who practiced under the guidance of the kaizan Zen master.

[24:56]

And by the Kaizan Zen's requirement, he used to be the abbot of the Daijouji Temple. And Daijoji Temple belonged to the Soto school, but Rinzai Zen was the abbot of the Daijoji Temple by the Keizan Zenji's requirement. Between 1370 to 1337, I don't know how long he was the abbot of the Daijoji Temple. Anyway, in 1317, Keizan Zen master retired from Daijoji. And in 1337, the Meiho Zen master became the abbot of the Daijoji Temple. So between these years, the Kyo-o Un-ryo, 1267 to 1341,

[26:17]

he became the abbot. And also, Basshi Tokusho, one of Rinzai Zen master, practiced under the guidance of Gassan Zen master. So these days, I think Gassan's and Meiho's way of teaching were really open-minded to accept everybody. Hello, everyone. Tonight, I'll be doing the practice

[27:25]

of the characteristic of the Soto Zen. In Namboku-cho, in Muromachi-jiyo,

[29:00]

the Soto Zen meditation is used. And that order follows very much. So what's going on in the world? This meditation about how to study and practice the Soto Zen practice. This is why I'm here. I'm here to talk about the Soto Zen practice. This position was not ready to accept people who were eager to study and practice the Dogen Zen because one civil war followed on the heels of another.

[30:05]

So the atmosphere of Japanese society in those days was very confused. The hearts of the people were terribly confused. According to Unto Sho, Unto Sho is the book editing the lecture delivered by Unso Ikkei. Unso Ikkei, he is 1336 to 1463.

[31:13]

His disciple, Unto Sho, Unso Ikkei's disciple, named Dogen Zui-sen, Dogen Zui-sen, Zui-sen, Zui-sen, So Dogen Zui-sen edited the lecture delivered by Unso Ikkei. Both were Rinzai monks. According to Unto Sho,

[32:28]

in Rinzai school, they deplored the depraved conditions of their monasteries because there were no monks in the zendo. So I think those days, Rinzai mostly stayed in Kyoto connecting to a noble family. But on the other hand, Soro Zen was really spreading to every places without connecting with noble families in Kyoto. But Soro Zen was constantly spreading to various places

[33:34]

even though Rinzai Zen was not so much flourishing at that time. Soro Zen was very continually spreading to various places. But the guiding principle to spread Soro Zen was not based on Dogen Zen's teachings undefiled, but the idea of tantric Buddhism with a sense of worldly benefit which would meet the needs of the Japanese society at those days.

[34:35]

So the development of Soro Zen at that time was really promoted by So under such Japanese social conditions, there are two activities continued quietly. First one is that study of Goi Setsu.

[35:38]

Study of Goi Setsu. Study of Goi Five Languages. The kind of Zen philosophy. Under such Japanese social conditions, first one was that study of the Goi Five Languages introduced by Gassan Zen Master was continuous. And second is that the editing and mimeographing Shobo Genzo were also ongoing little by little.

[36:42]

So from this point, the Soro Zen Buddhism based on Goi Five Languages was being promoted more and more by Gassan's disciples. So Taigen Toshi. So you look at this chart. Gassan, the number two. The number two is Gassan. The number is here. And the number three is Goi Setsu. And this is Taigen Toshi.

[37:48]

This is Taigen Toshi. Taigen Toshi Gassan's disciples. This is Taigen Toshi. [...] Baishan Mompon. Baishan Mompon is the Taigen Toshi's disciple. Here. This is Baishan Mompon.

[38:52]

Baishan Mompon. Baishan Mompon's disciple is Ketsudo Nosho. Here. Yes. Ketsudo Nosho. Ketsudo Nosho. Ketsudo Nosho. And Ketsudo's disciple, Nanye Kunshu. One. This is Nanye Kunshu. Nanye Kunshu. Thank you. So.

[39:58]

So then, Buddhism based on Gassan's Goi five ranks was being promoted more and more by Gassan's disciples. Taigen Toshi, Baishan Mompon, Ketsudo Nosho, Nanye Kunshu. Five. Fourteen, seventeen. Ketsudo Nosho. Fifteen. Fifty-five. Fifty-four. Fifty-five. Nanye Kunshu. Fifty-five. Fifty-four. Fifty-five. Fifty-four.

[41:00]

This is Nanye Kunshu, directly below Ketsudo Nosho. Yes. Uh-huh. Yes. Yes. Okay. So. According to first point, the study of five ranks introduced by Gassan, there are several books. One book is Tojo Ungeku Roku. Tojo Ungeku Roku. Ibayu.

[42:02]

Ibayu. When Ketsudo Nosho gave the Teisho on five ranks, the teaching of five ranks, at his temple Kounji, Kounji. He was founder of Kounji. His disciple, his disciple Nanye Kunshu, recorded his Teisho and edited it. This is called Tojo Ungeku Roku. Nanye Kunshu's work was a little bit long name.

[43:16]

Well. Okay, anyway. Tensho-goi. Tensho-goi. Uh. Zu. Setsu. Setsu. Setsu. Kitsu. Nan. Nan. Long name. This is Tojo Ungeku Roku.

[44:22]

Ketsudo and Ketsudo Nanyen returned to the authentic tradition of Tozan and Sozan's goi, five ranks. Instead of adopting the Sekiso's five ranks, which the Chinese Rinzai and Soto had followed for a long year. According to the second point, the editing and mimeography of Shobo Genzo, there are several books. Shobo Genzo 75 volumes. 75 volumes. Already edited.

[45:38]

Excuse me. Arranged. Shobo Genzo 75 volumes arranged and rewrote by Ejo Zen Master was the second W.A.H. monastery in the last half year of Kamakura period. And next is Gosho. Gosho. I always mentioned about it. Gosho was completed by Senne and Kyogo. Senne was the Doken's disciple. The Doken Zenji had just two disciples who had dharma transmission.

[46:43]

Ejo and Senne. No. He, Jakuen, had received dharma transmission from Ejo. This Gosho was completed by Senne and Kyogo in 1308. 1308. This is oldest textbook commentary. When you study Shobo Genzo, this textbook commentary is very important. The next is Shobo Genzo 60 volumes. Was completed by the editing and mimeography.

[47:50]

No. Completed by Ryun. Ryun Zen Master. He compiled the Shobo Genzo 60 volumes. Before Ryun Zenji, there had been already Shobo Genzo 75 edited by Ejo Zen Master. So, why the Gion was the fifth patriarch of Edo Monastery. Why is it that he had to compile 60 volumes? We don't know. Why? Well, there are several reasons. One is, at that time, the government asked the Ehechi Monastery to offer Shobo Genzo, copy of Shobo Genzo.

[48:58]

But at that time, maybe Gion was very concerned about content of Shobo Genzo because Dogen Zenji criticized very strongly Rinzai, particularly Daiei Soko. Daiei Soko. You know the Daiei Soko? Look at this small chart. A small picture of Daiei Soko. I put, I drew the circle left her name. Do you see that? Actually, Japanese Rinzai Zen was not connected with Daiei Soko. Actually, this Nihon, Japanese Rinzai Zen, was connected with the Sektan and Mittan trenches.

[50:09]

See the left line? See the left line? But why Dogen Zenji had to criticize the Daiei Soko, because Daiei Soko was the great Zen master who established the system of Kowan, the Kowan system, for guiding the Rinzai Zen monks. Well, but I want to tell you one thing. If you read the Bendo, maybe you will find a little bit of criticism for Rinzai. But whatever, in Shobo Genzo, Dogen Zenji really criticized Rinzai and another Zen masters.

[51:10]

But there is now more criticism. You should read Shobo Genzo. It's not criticism. But Rinzai Zen, Rinzai priest don't understand. Because Dogen Zenji's mind, I understand pretty well, but on the surface, well of course there is criticism, but it's not really criticism. It's sort of, that criticism comes from Buddha's compassion. Buddha's compassion. Yes, it is. You know, then one of Zen masters says, Dogen Zenji, Dogen Zenji explained Zen Buddhism too much, too much, with a lot of words. Too much. Because, oh, Rinzai here, oh, Dogen, too much, too much, shut up.

[52:12]

Something like that. But, it's because of Buddha's compassion, ok? You know that your mother, the mother is very kind to the children. Mother really is concerned about you. No matter how old you are, even though you become fifty, go at sixty years old. If you go to see your mother, your mother always says, Mother, can I give you this? I would like to give it to you. So, you don't understand the essence of Zen Buddhism.

[53:47]

It's not that you don't understand it. You don't understand the essence of Zen Buddhism. It's true. Zen Buddhism is not always the truth. ... So, if you use a double chemical, it's the same. ...

[54:50]

... It's not me. The children have to go to the social class back here. But, thank you. It really is a pleasure to be here.

[55:33]

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