Good morning. Is this supposed to touch my chin? I want to talk today about the same story that Maya told and talked about some, seems like a long time ago. It's the story of Ketsugikai. reb talked about it in the dharma transmission class when i was doing my dharma transmission ceremony and You know, I suppose there's some wondering on my part.

[01:06]

Was either he or the universe trying to give me some teaching? And I've been since been trying to understand this story and working on it. And it has some difficult part. And then adding to the kind of extra interest in it, Reb wrote on both my name and Maya's Roxy, I believe, Grandmotherly Mind, which is part of this story. So let me refresh your memory. When Dogen was at least beginning a heiji in Japan, and before that too, there was another school of Buddhism that was fairly popular in Japan called the Daruma shu. And one of the main teachings of this school was that everything that you do, or everything is Buddhism. That's actually a fine teaching, one that we've heard ourselves.

[02:09]

But they took it, or some of them at least, took it to an extreme, where basically anything they did was Buddhism and was okay, and they did some pretty nice things. And the other Buddhist school didn't like it, and neither did the government. And this Daruma Shu got into a lot of trouble, and they were kind of... Anyway. Maybe even the government said they couldn't exist. I'm not sure. But anyway, there was a lot of upheaval about them. And one of the main teachers in that school, do you remember his name? Tetsugikai's teacher's name? You sure? Wasn't he earlier? He wasn't the one who came to study with Dogen, though, was he? Anyway, Dainichi Nonan was a very famous teacher in the school, but I think there was another one who came, actually brought his students and came to be Dogen's student at AHE.

[03:22]

The feeling that I got is that he kind of wanted to shape up his school, you know. He thought there was good potential here, but it needed something that maybe could be added to it in this monastic practice that Dogen was beginning at Eheiji. So he came and actually became Dogen's student and brought several of his main students with him. One of those was Dogen's main Dharma heir, Koen Ejo, the next name that we... chant after Dogon's in the lineage chart, and another was Tetsugikai, So, this man, whose name I can't remember, really wanted to receive Dharma transmission from Dogen, but he didn't. He died too soon. And he said to his disciples, especially these two, Konejo and Tetsugikai, I'm sure that you can receive Dharma transmission from Dogen Benji. And I believe he gave, at least Tetsugikai, he also gave him his Dharma transmission.

[04:25]

So he was very favorable towards Dogen's teaching, really encouraging his disciples to take it up. Tetsugikai came when he was just 22 years old. He moved to Eheiji at that point. So he had already been practicing for a while, came to Eheiji, and within two years he was the Tenzo. which, as you may know, Dogen thought was a really important position, somewhat the heart of the monastery, how the kitchen was run, how the food was prepared, how the monks were nurtured, and how everything, every little detail in the kitchen was done was very important for Dogen. Within two years, he made this young monk, Ketsukikai, the head of the kitchen. And I think that says something about how dedicated Tetsugikai was, what a talented young person he was, but also how dedicated to practice that Dogen would put him in charge of the kitchen.

[05:29]

So at 24 he was in charge of Keiichi's kitchen and did it quite well here, mostly from him, but we hear that. And ten years later, when he was 34, Dogen was dying. So he spent all this time with Dogen. And he had really hoped to receive Dharma transmission from Dogen, as his teacher had encouraged him to. He had studied very hard, and Dogen was quite sick. and decided that he needed to go from Eheiji back to Kyoto to try to get some medical care. And he called Tetsugikai to him and said, I really need you to stay here and take care of Eheiji. According to Tetsugikai, you're the only one who can do it. And in fact, he took Koen Eijo with him to Kyoto, and he left Tetsugikai in charge of the monastery.

[06:34]

And before he went, he said to him, you know, I would really like to give you Dharma transmission. I would really like to give you my Dharma, but you're not quite ready yet. If I could get back from Kyoto alive, I'm sure that at that point we'll be able to move in this way. But in the meantime, he said the same thing that he had said to him twice before, which is that you need to develop more grandmotherly mind. And Tetsugikai says, it's so touching to me, something about this is very touching. Tetsugikai says he wrote about this later. He wrote all this down. And in his writing he said, I will not forget these admonitions, even though I do not yet know their cause." Interesting, huh?

[07:39]

He's trying so hard, and three times during his studying with Dogen, Dogen says to him, You have to develop more grandmotherly mind. And he's, you know, working away, really taking good care of the monastery. And you have to develop more grandmotherly mind. And he says, I will not forget these admonitions, even though I do not yet know their cause. I could just cry. Anyway, Dogen then left for Kyoto and in fact died while he was there. And Tetsugikai continued on at Eheiji. And sometime later, not so much later, but I'm not sure how long, I believe about a year later, he was having a conversation with Koen Eijo, who eventually did give him Dharma transmission in Dogen's lineage. And he said to Koen Eijo,

[08:40]

This past year or so, I have been reflecting on the lectures I heard given by our former teacher. Even though I heard all of them from our teacher Dogen, now they are different in meaning than at first. This difference concerns the assertion that the Buddhism transmitted by our teacher is the correct performance of one's present monastic castes. Even though I had heard that Buddhist ritual is Buddhism, in my heart I privately felt that true Buddhism must reside apart from this. Recently, however, I have changed my views. I now know that monastic ritual and deportment themselves are that true Buddhism. Are you getting worried? I am. Even if apart from these there also is the infinite Buddhism of the Buddhas and patriarchs, still it all is the very same Buddhism.

[09:50]

I have attained true confidence in this profound principle that apart from the lifting of an arm or the moving of a leg within one's Buddhist deportment, there can be no other reality. You can see there are some problems here. I think there are problems here. One problem is to say that true Buddhism, the Buddhist ritual, a monastic ritual in deportment, is true Buddhism. it could be a little bit of a problem for us. Even though here we are right now in the monastery where we can practice monastic department and ritual, all of us, almost all of us, maybe all of us at Tassajara and at Zen Center have our

[10:55]

call it lay lives you'll have our non monastic lives our non monastic concerns that we may be able to put aside for a little while when we come to Tassajara maybe but they're still knocking on our door and they're important to us you know we I think we're not ready or, I don't know, ready. We're not interested in giving that up completely. You know, in fact, I think most of us think of that as a major part of our practice. You know, our children, our parents, our spouses, our professions, our, you know, various things, our art, things that we are interested in that we've made some space from in order to be here, but that we really, with our hearts, want to be part of our practice.

[11:57]

We don't want to say Buddhist practice is just monastic ritual and deportment. I don't want to say that. I don't think most of you want to say that. So what is Tetsugikai talking about that he says he finally deeply understood from Dogen's lectures? So I think these two things, grandmotherly mind and this true Buddhism being the moving of a leg or the raising of an arm within our Buddhist department, are connected. I don't think they're exactly the same thing, but I think they're closely connected. So what I'm going to go on and say now, I just want to make a little disclaimer here. So I've been thinking about this and reading it over and over and working on it, and I'm going to tell you what I think now.

[12:59]

But I want you to know this is what I think now. and what I think might change and what you think might be different and what Ketsugikai or Reb or Buddha or whoever might think might be different. So please take what you can from this and work with it as you will. I think that... So I said they're slightly different. They're dependent on each other, I believe. finding this true reality, which maybe can only be found in monastic deportment, it's necessary to do that before we can develop more grandmotherly mind. So let me read this one more time. This past year or so, I have been reflecting on the lectures I heard given by our former teacher, even though I heard all of them from our teacher Dogen.

[14:12]

Now they are different in meaning than at first. This difference concerns the assertion that the Buddhism transmitted by our teacher is the correct performance of one's present monastic task. Even though I had heard that Buddhist ritual is Buddhism, in my heart, I privately felt that true Buddhism must reside apart from this. Recently, however, I have changed my views. I now know that monastic ritual and deportment themselves are the true Buddhism. Even if apart from these there also is the infinite Buddhism of the Buddhas and patriarchs, still it all is the very same Buddhism. I have attained true confidence in this profound principle that apart from the lifting of an arm or the moving of a leg within one's Buddhist deportment, there can be no other reality. In my heart I privately felt that true Buddhism must reside apart from this.

[15:28]

That also rings a bell for me and touches my heart. In a way, for me, I have to confess that it isn't only in my heart I have privately felt that true Buddhism must reside apart from this. In my heart, I have privately felt that something, you know, true Buddhism or not, must be out there somewhere if I could just find it. There must be something that could help me that could make my life right, that could make my life meaningful, that could make my life the way it's supposed to be, that could make me happy. In my heart I have privately felt that out there somewhere must reside the truth, the help, the refuge. And maybe it's Buddhism. I hope it's Buddhism.

[16:31]

Sometimes I believe it's Buddhism in my heart privately. But nonetheless, it's out there somewhere, you know, just out of reach often. And I think this is the misconception that Tetsugike is talking about. The fact that Dogen was working with these young people, young men, in a monastic setting, he taught this way. He taught Buddhist ritual and Buddhist monastic deportment is where truth can be found, is where the true way can be found. And I think this is true for us also. but that it's true wherever you are. It's just that in a monastery, which we have the great good fortune to be in, it's easier, it's more supported to look there, to actually settle down and look in the place where we are instead of apart from here.

[17:42]

There must be some help. But to look actually here and in a monastery... It's, you know, it's simplified and the places that you can look are well defined. Like you can, we can look when we get up in the morning, we don't have to get all distracted by what are we going to wear. We don't have to think about that. Well, maybe a little bit, you know, how many layers. Will the heat be on in the end of this morning or not? Should I, you know, but basically it's pretty well defined. We don't have to think about that too much. And we don't have to think about what impression it's going to make, you know, what we're going to wear. You know, now today I have an important meeting should I wear. You know, even if we have an important meeting, it doesn't matter what we wear. But especially first thing in the morning, you know, it's all laid out for us. The monastic department tells us what to wear in the morning. So we can instead of thinking about the meaning of this and whether, you know, I'm going to find some refuge in what I wear, whether I'm going to be protected

[18:50]

by what I wear, whether I'm going to make the right impression, et cetera, et cetera, we can pay attention to tying the knot. My first practice period, I paid a lot of attention to tying the knot. I don't know. Now that I look back on it, it was wonderful, actually. I recommend it as a practice. Pay, actually, attention to, like, tying the ties or tying your belt as a way to come here. And then we can, you know, pay attention to walking from our... We can pay attention to other things before that, brushing our teeth. It's endless. The tiny, tiny... present, the very, very exact present that we could settle into, that we can settle into, if we can not be distracted by that urge we have, which I think often comes down to either avoidance or trying to make things right, trying to figure out, well, where should I be going for my interim vacation?

[20:06]

We could spend a lot of time on that. How am I going to get there? What am I going to do when I'm there? But if we could leave that and just come back to our present monastic deportment and actually Fine. Is true Buddhism or reb agreed to? I think he really felt that. I heard him change it in our class. We kind of said, Buddhism? We don't want to be dedicated to Buddhism, you know, any ism, you know. So he changed it to the Buddha way. And then later I heard in a lecture he changed it to the Buddha way. And to me that feels more right. Buddhism, okay, I'm grateful to Buddhism, but in terms of dedicated to... So if we can find the Buddha way... in walking from our cabin to the zendo, in bowing to our cushion, in eating our cereal, and many, many, many small things which are laid out for us in a quite simple way.

[21:23]

If we can settle in there, now what does this mean? To find the true Buddha way there. I think this is a good question. If we can find the true Buddha way exactly, exactly where we are, then I don't think it will be any problem to find that Buddha way when we're not in the monastery or when monastic department does not exactly describe what we're supposed to be doing, like if we're having tea with a friend. I think if we... If we can find it in these small, very proscribed actions, we might have the possibility of finding it in everything that we do. You know, Dogen talks about it also in the Genjo Koan that we chant sometimes when he talks about the bird and the fish.

[22:45]

A fish swims in the ocean and there's no end to the water. A bird flies in the sky and there's no end to the air. The fish and the bird have never left their element. If the bird leaves the air, it will die at once. If the fish leaves the water, it will die at once. If a bird or a fish tries to reach the end of its element, it will not find its way or its place. When you find your place where you are, practice occurs actualizing the fundamental point. When you find your way at this moment, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. Here's the place, here the way unfolds. Doing one practice is practicing completely. Here's the place. Here the way unfolds. Whatever we're doing, it's just in this monastic setting.

[23:49]

And especially in Sashin, of course, it gets even simpler with less encouragement to leave this place. You know, when Darlene gave her, after dormant transmission talk, she said that remark about being a giant truffle. And then she said, I heard, I wasn't here. And then I heard that she mentioned this quote from the Genja Kahan and said that the... human element, we have to stay within our element. If we don't stay within our element, we will die and we won't find our way and our place. And that the human element is greed, hate, and delusion. I think she said that, which was interesting to me.

[24:50]

Actually, I think the human element is not just greed, hate, and delusion. It's more like the human element is all whatever senses we have. The human element is what we see, what we smell, what we taste, what we hear, what we feel. It's a big one, what we feel. And then we permeate it with greed, hate, and delusion. And the greed, hate, and delusion are important parts of it to settle with, to come to that place that... that part of our element that we add to our experience. We add our greed, we add our hate, our aversion, we add our delusion. And we do need to find ourself there. And this monastic department helps us to do that by joining in a very full way to really notice when we are leaping off from it and looking for refuge or help or relief or diversion somewhere else and to try to come back to this monastic deportment and ritual.

[26:18]

I just want to look at the quote again and see if there's anything more that I wanted to say about it before I go back to grandmotherly mind. Even if apart from these there is also the infinite Buddhism of the Buddhism patriarchs, still it all is the very same Buddhism. I have attained true confidence in this profound principle that apart from the lifting of an arm or the moving of a leg within one's Buddhist deportment, there can be no other reality. Well, maybe the thing about this that most calls my attention is this thing, there can be no other reality. It's interesting. It's not there can be no other Buddhism or there can be no other practice. It's there can be no other reality. Which I think is true.

[27:22]

We so fool ourselves into thinking that there is this other reality that we believe in our heart is really there and could help us. But it's not only useless to think about it, it isn't even actually there. There isn't any other reality but this one that we can experience directly. We can think about it, but we are imagining, you know, if we were thinking about what I'm going to do over the break, It's not there, you know, we're imagining it. It feels so real to us, you know, like what I should do at lunch today, or I should call here and I should, you know, I don't know what, you know, clean my orioke, whatever. It feels so real, you know, we have such a developed sense of imagination. But actually there is no other reality. There is only this, you know, lifting an arm. Now he says lifting an arm within one's Buddhist deportment. I don't know about that.

[28:22]

You'll have to explore that yourself. I think that is the reality that's freeing to lift our arm somehow as the Buddha way. To lift it as... Now, what does this mean as the Buddha way? I would think that that means as a way to be free and in a freedom that includes all beings. So, lifting my arm in a way that is free and that includes the freedom of all being. To do all of our actions in that way. And I think the closer we come to our actions, the easier that is to do, actually. The easier it is. I mean, you know, lifting my arm in a free way is not a problem. If somebody were holding my arm down, then it would not be lifting my arm. It would be maybe resisting the person in a free way or giving in in a free way.

[29:26]

So the closer, if we're really settled on our exact experience, this freedom gets much more apparent. We don't have to make it up. It's that little bit of distance that makes for the lack of freedom. So if we're feeling cold, If we're sitting there feeling like, I hate this, I hate this, I'm going to, I don't know what, go to the dining room where it's warm, something. Run up the hill and get to the sunshine, finally get out of this deep valley. If we're thinking that way, then we're not very free. But if we come back and actually stay with the cold and You know, the good thing about Sashin, we really, most of us discover some of this, the actual physical, how this works sometime during Sashin, during some Sashin. It may be hard to keep clear, you know, and remember, but most of us have had some experience during Sashin of having pain and hating it.

[30:33]

and trying to get away from it, and doing various things to get away from it, and eventually not being able to get away from it, and somehow, by some grace, settling into it and finding that it's different. At that point, it's different. That it isn't like it isn't pain, or like it isn't cold, but that there is freedom there when we really join and allow that sensation to be there. It may not be pleasant. It may actually be a little pleasant at that point. And as I tell you, I don't spend much time there, but I've had that experience, and I think most of you have. So if we can try to be in that place, try to be there where the freedom is actually part of the... the phenomenon, where the freedom is part of the cold.

[31:36]

And the hair's breath deviation, we hate it. The hair's breath deviation, we really want something else. But right there, there is freedom. So grandmotherly mind, Dogen says in the Tenzo Kyoukan, Be as mindful of the three treasures as a parent or grandparent would be mindful of an only child. According to Botterford, who writes about Tetsugikai, he says, grandmotherly mindfulness entails not just a kind concern for others, but also a single-minded devotion. So to take, not just being kind, but actually taking care of, taking care of in this way of...

[32:44]

that maybe we can only do when we are right there, when we are completely present with it. Because if we have any distance from it, then we have some idea about what taking care of is. Then we think, oh, it would be good if that person did this. Or it would be good if it were warmer in here. We have some idea that gets into our taking care of and our kindness. But if we are right there... So that's why I say it's dependent on this doing each action as the Buddha's way, doing each action completely as if this were the only reality. From there, then this grandmotherly mind, grandparently mind, that can take care of in the exactly appropriate way, which, by the way, may include things that we would normally call mistakes.

[33:48]

As I think all of you know, we don't really know what the impact of what we do is. So we might do something that we feel like, oh, I wish I wouldn't have done that. I'm so sorry. I hurt that person. And then we don't know what impact that has in their life or what impact it has in our life even. But to be right in that space where we are completely engaging with the present as the only reality. From there, there is this possibility of... loving kindness and responsibility and care for that I am currently believing is grand motherly or grandparently mine. You may have some other ideas, that's fine. So I'm, you know, as I'm studying this, I'm realizing how much

[34:53]

I was going to say room for effort there is, or how much time I do not spend in this place. And yet, how available it is. When I can drop in for a moment, it's there. Namely, the present is there. When I can drop in, there it is. There's my life. There's reality. It's very, very full. I mean, if I start looking around to sort of check and see if all the parts of my life are here, I get kind of distracted. But if I'm just here for what has appeared at this moment, it's completely full. It's full out to the edges. There isn't room for anything else more. But I've been noticing how much I'm not there.

[36:04]

But again, how to just keep coming back whenever I notice. Just keep coming back and the present is here. And to meet my element then. Find out, is there greed, hate, or delusion there? What impact is it having? What's happening in this very alive, very full present moment? So that's what I've been thinking about. Let's see what time it is. Do you have anything that you'd like to say, Butch? Well, you know, it's kind of made up, right? Even the term grandmotherly mind is made up. It's not like every grandmother has the kind of grandmotherly mind that Dogen was talking about.

[37:07]

So what are you talking about? Are you talking about real mothers and real grandmothers? It just seems to me that grandmothers are more space. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I don't know if there's... I understand what you're saying, and that may very well be why Dogen chose grandmotherly instead of motherly, say. Of course, it doesn't let mothers off the hook. They have to try to have this grandmotherly mind with their children anyway if they're practicing. But I don't know if there's more space or more, maybe more... Or more objectivity.

[38:09]

I don't know about more objectivity, but maybe a wider knowledge. Having seen your child go through various stages and freaking out as they go through those stages, thinking, This is not OK. It is not OK that my dear little baby, who always used to come home exactly when I told her, is now staying out and not telling me even where she is. It's not OK. It's not safe. It's obviously not safe. Et cetera, et cetera. Going through that and living through it, if you live through it, and seeing that actually they have to push the boundaries. If it were left up to the mother, They would never grow. They would never take a step. You know, maybe they would, but not anyway. They wouldn't do it in the way that they're going to do it. So as you see them do it and as you, you know, take a deep breath and hold back your panic a little bit, you see, oh, this is the unique, beautiful way this child is doing it.

[39:20]

And if you have two children, you see, oh, and it's different than the unique, beautiful way this child is doing it. Maybe you see that if you're lucky as a mother, if your panic doesn't get too high, you know. So after you've done that over and over and over and over again, as they get from 2 to 6 to 14 to 24, 30, who knows, you learn, oh, maybe this is the way that babies grow, that children grow, that adults grow. Maybe they take dangerous steps. So then when you're a grandmother, having been through that, the panic doesn't have to happen as much. But I don't know if it's any more objective exactly. You know, you're still, you know, sort of right, your attention is right on this person. Maybe not, you know, you don't get to see it as much or something, but it's just that you have a wider breadth of what's okay, maybe. Mm-hmm.

[40:30]

Wait until you get older. Now, this statement that I read of his, where he says about Buddhist deportment, and now I have become thoroughly convinced that lifting an arm or moving a leg within Buddhist deportment is the true reality. He made that statement. That was kind of part of Koen Eijo deciding that, yes, it's time for you to have Dharma transmission. So I think it was very connected to this kind of settling into the present and how much it had to do with the fact that now he was 35 or 36 instead of 34, I don't know. But maybe those were crucial years, yeah. Uh-oh, too many. Yeah. Oh, right.

[42:10]

Well, let's see. Thank you for asking that. When I said it, what I was talking about at that point was my, what it looks to me like is actually my averting. I know this in my heart, you know, it's a beautiful phrase. I mean that really, a beautiful phrase. Okay, so when I said, you know, in my heart I actually want something or other, that kind of in my heart that I was talking about right then, I think in looking at it is actually not what I really want deep in my heart. But there may be things that in our heart we want, you know, that are in the way that you're talking about it. And I think we have to examine if we keep longing for something that isn't here, should we be doing something about that?

[43:24]

I think, yeah, and how exactly we tell, I don't know, but to come close to that longing is one way. That's more like what I was talking about, come close to the longing. Don't just keep imagining it, playing with it in our mind, which is totally made up and not doing any good, but to actually come close to the longing and then see, oh, is this something actually I should try to actualize in some way? and then see what happens, of course. Does that make sense? Greg? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes intention is optional.

[44:45]

It happens whether... Go on. It seems like sometimes... Intention. Thank you. Thank you.

[45:54]

Thank you. Thank you. so Thank you. Thank you.

[47:42]

All we have to do is, you know, when our intention is available to us, try to join it. But, you know, it's not about thinking. It's about living. Carol? Well, not exactly, but go on. Yes. I don't know enough about the Dharmasura to really talk about it, but as I understand it, their mistake was to think that whatever you did didn't matter. It's not just that whatever presents itself you have to practice with, but then whatever you did with it, it didn't matter. You could, like, beat it up or rape it or anything you wanted, and it was still Buddhism.

[49:14]

Some of the Dharmasura monks actually did those kind of things. Yeah. Sonia? . Yeah. . My mind is right here. It's not working. It's not happening. I can't understand. If I might, and you were talking about being in the present, I'm not supposed to be in the present. I'm just being in the present. Because I hear you, or I just can't.

[50:14]

And I'm not going to lie. And I'm perfect. I'm perfect. I'm perfect. That's a good point. Right. This might be the makings of another talk. Yeah, it's a good question. How much do we have to, how much if I can say it this way, if we are really present with something and open to it, so maybe the right attitude, openness to it, will its truth or emptiness or the way to be free with it

[51:17]

reveal itself? Or do we have to come in with the right understanding? Deportment. Right. But that, I think this Buddhist department is like, you know, monastic, you know, Japanese monastic. It doesn't tell you why or what. It says, do it like this. Hold your hands like this. Hold your feet like this. So I don't know. It's a good question. Yeah. Shannon. Thank you. Avoiding evil.

[52:23]

And I was really shocked by that, because as I was talking to you, it was more of an attack than it was an attack. So it seems to me, I have to say, that what you're talking about this morning has some bearing on you. And I thought, how do you understand that? Yeah, well, I think for me it becomes apparent in doing them, like in Like in doing, you know, our Orioki meal. You know, to actually do Orioki, you know, do the various parts of it.

[53:39]

If you're, you know, if you're laying everything out very carefully and all that, and then you notice that you're angry because the server has... I don't know what, touched your bowl in the wrong way or something. It's obvious, right? This is attachment. This is tightening. There's something doesn't feel right here. Now, we can get distracted by the forms and ceremonies and say, well, they shouldn't have done the blah-de-blah. But if we're actually just there doing it, I think we notice, whoa, I'm unhappy now. What are my options? I think it's so great that my favorite part of Oriyoki is the beginning of the chant just before we eat. You know, what is it? We reflect on the effort that brought us this food and consider how it comes to us. We reflect on our virtue and practice, whether we were worthy of this offering.

[54:44]

Every time, it's like, okay. Whatever I've gotten upset about, about how they did it or what it was or, you know, it all just like, you know, did I deserve this? Think of the effort that went into this. Did I deserve this? So it kind of, you know, the form and ceremony kind of helps you. And to me, that's like a symbol of how the... It seems to me like this life here at Tassajara is so... well constructed over, I mean, it must have developed over thousands of years, the way the different parts go together to help us get caught and get free. Get caught and get free, get caught and get free. You know, we have to sit right next to somebody. Right next to them. You have to sit so close. And then, you know, you have to sit there. You sit and sit and sit and sit. You get caught and you get freed. And a whole, you know, lots of it. It goes on and on how the different, you know, I don't think anyone really thought it up, but somehow it developed in this way.

[55:51]

So I don't know if that exactly answers your question, but I think that we have to go on because very soon we have to stop making a fail. Can you hear him? Yeah. I think the best way to cultivate it is to notice what happens when that doesn't happen. I mean, to notice what happens when that does happen, but also to notice very closely what happens when that doesn't happen.

[56:56]

What happens when somebody asks for something and you say no, or you want to say no? To actually notice, be very present with that, and then from that, I think will come more grandmotherly mind. It will be, again, it will be the same thing. I don't feel good now. Well, what would help me feel better? Maybe I think if I could just get them out of the kitchen, I'd feel better. Let's try that. Get out. Get out, get out, get out. Do I feel better? Probably not. So we just stay close. Stay there. Okay, now. What's happening now? And I think, anyway. We should stop, I think. Maybe one more. OK. All right. Good. You'll tell me when to stop? OK. Be true. Sarah.

[57:57]

Yeah. And I've actually heard this thing in my mind. My heart's not guided by it. Where is it in my mind? What's it say? But I think the fundamental idea of it But I assumed that the first thing that I could do was not end it. So when you said that you made that statement, I saw a lot of people who were like, it's not a big deal. You can form a doctorate degree and then you can help people.

[59:12]

It's just that you have to do it. Yeah, if you can't even be nice, please practice. Yeah, it's not just nice. Anybody over there? I keep looking over here. Yes. I don't know.

[60:50]

Okay. Thank you. [...]

[61:55]

Thank you. I wasn't at the last lecture, but I have some thoughts based on what you just said. I think the reason why they both might be called in my heart, that Peter and I were talking about, is because they have to do with, for me, it has to do with my... I think for us it has to do with our deep need for something.

[63:06]

You could call it various things. For meaning or safety or life. Our deep need for vitality or our deep need to live. even including death. So we proceed to look for our deep need, for an answer to our deep need in all these, you know, kind of outside passions. And my heart longs for someone to love me or ice cream. My heart longs for various things. But it really comes back to this, I'm trying to live a human life and it's a scary thing. And I don't know what, I need to do it. I really need to do it.

[64:07]

And through practice we can discover that the way to do it is to do it. And then the kind of passion can come home, and it can include those other things to some extent, but not in the same kind of going out and, you know, trying to get them kind of way, but it can include them here. Melissa, time to stop. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[64:39]

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