I'd like to talk some more about what we talked about last night, but from the point of view of the peculiar animal or practice that Zen is. For Zen is a particular school of Buddhism. Buddhism, of course, a particular and not the only way to respond to the conditions of our existence. I know some of you are in conversations like last night and other times when we've had similar discussions, some of you get rather alarmed that the world is coming to an end. Buddhism may say it's an illusion and a dream, but I don't want it to come to an end. I don't even want to imagine it's going to come to an end a million years from now. Even that idea is upsetting.

[01:29]

Anyway, some of you get alarmed about it. And others of you feel, well, why do we bother with such stuff? We should just practice Zazen and not worry about it. The world has always been in some kind of calamitous situation, and it's not our responsibility after all. We're interested in some special, inner, pure, blissful experience, not that corrupt world out there. But actually, most of us take our cues from our society and our environment.

[02:35]

we work out our destiny, whether we're going to practice, how we're going to practice, how we're going to live, in terms of how we visualize the amphitheater on which we might play out our life, in which we might play out our life. So we give value to our life, our decisions, by imagining the world as a certain kind of place, or society as a certain kind of acknowledging body, probably mostly set up to check us out or to find out or measure us. But I think most of what we think society is, and how we play out our destiny, even by practicing as a form of achieving our destiny, is

[03:55]

if you understand what Buddhist practice and particularly Zen practice is, most of that kind of thinking is pointless, meaningless. First I'd like to express some gratitude to Sterling for the various ways he has and is helping Zen Center, much more than meets our immediate attention. Some years ago, when Zen Center was just starting, Suzuki Roshi was first in America.

[04:57]

Zen was thought of as mostly a kind of alternative therapy, another kind of psychology. And most people came to Zen practice thinking they were going to get psychology based on Buddha rather than a cow, or some more developed model of human being than just accommodation with society. So that's maybe too negative a way to describe most Western psychology, that that's how it comes across often. Anyway, based on that kind of model, many people came to practice. And so one of the first concerns was, what is the relationship between Zen practice and psychology? And how can an individual who's practicing make use of both psychology and Zen?

[06:21]

practice. And at this time, Sterling was the main person who helped Zen Center, many Zen Center members or students who wanted to in the traditional psychological mode or to have some… that kind of personal attention, that kind of working with their psyche, would talk to Sterling, because Sterling was both a Freudian analyst and Jungian analyst. And now we're, of course, in between. then and now, just practically we had to find out what kind of environment this Tassajara is and how we can take care of this place. And now, of course, Green Gulch too. And Sterling helped us with that, coming down here very often.

[07:42]

And now a much larger question is, in front of all of us, environment as our... one part, in a way, of our reality. And as we were talking about hubris the other day, this is... what's happening now is a perfect example of this pattern. We, by becoming divorced from our environment through

[08:47]

hooking engines and tools together and using the world as a fuel, and putting that power to work to create a human world, a world specifically which takes its form from our own considerations or purpose or interest. And now, that environment is about to bring us down, our society based on that idea. So I'd like to go back a little and try to just talk about Zen in general as a practice. I suppose maybe we got out of connection with our environment as soon as we started

[10:17]

agriculture, manipulating our environment that way, and especially when cities got independent of, got to be special kind of environments. But I think mostly it happened in recent years with the hook-up of engines and tools. and then the world looked upon as something, some kind of source for fuel and material. Most religious systems seem to look to look for some guidelines and usually look for something permanent, a god or the fixed patterns, seemingly fixed patterns of the stars. But Zen is rather different in that it says, take your place or find your place in the changing itself.

[11:41]

So as I've talked about, maybe the first practice of Buddhism, of Zen, is survival. Not some magic or political power, but survival and participation in society as a way of being with others. So, Yakujo, you know, famous dictum, a day of no eating, a day of no work is a day of no eating.

[13:03]

also means one day of work, one day of eating. For instance, when he was old, he hadn't accumulated some stockpile where, because he was old, if he didn't work, he could still eat. In this system of Buddhism, you are an intimate daily connection with your environment and your society. and you're not accumulating. So one day of work doesn't equal three days of leisure, something like that. It's done. So our practice anyway, our traditional life, which we've inherited some way, takes as its constraints the environment and society. I don't know if I'm

[14:59]

able to express exactly what I mean. Anyway, we view the environment, natural environment, as a living being. And many of the aspects of Buddhism conduct as the second paramita, others, are how you participate without intermediate, without media, without separating yourself from your activity. The activity and the process are one being.

[16:06]

So, nowadays it means that we'll... that our attitude, I think, in this kind of situation should be to... not some special outside relationship, but only to make conscious In other words, we're not different or separate from the fix everyone's in, but that we're conscious of our participation, conscious in our participation. And if we're going to find out anything, we have to find out how each moment we arise There's some, as I said to Sterling yesterday, I think that our idea of wilderness is very close to the idea of perfect wisdom. That in the world, when there's no wilderness, when man has used up, as they do in Japan, all available space,

[18:06]

If you don't leave, some... If there isn't... The precepts come down to, basically, how to leave things alone, how not to interfere. As, you know, at first we practice clearing the path, making some path clear. Then our practice is to move through the bushes, say, without disturbing them. But the end, maybe the real practice is to be the bushes. So maybe our practice is to be the wilderness, not to find a path through it. Anyway, there is some intimate connection between our

[19:10]

immediate connection, relationship, between our environment and us. Actually, they're one. So samadhi, the second practice of jhana, is how to realize this identity, how to make sure, without a doubt, of how we exist on each moment. And then the expression of our practice is how we participate with each other, just what's before us, and what our relationship to the environment is, working in that sense of working or in the other sense of samadhi.

[20:25]

farming or gathering or however we live. So in this present day we have to at least understand how we, because now work is something described as something like economics, how we exist in our society, survive in our society. Understanding that and participating in that is how we practice with each thing. There's a person in San Francisco who's been studying Buddhism for some time as a scholar, and he also practices. And this brings up a rather interesting, what role does a scholar have in

[21:59]

Zen practice. I'm talking about this because maybe I can get a little closer to what I'm trying to talk about. There are scholars, this is only for Zen, not for other things, there are scholars who study Zen and they write papers and books, etc., and mostly their work is translating or finding out particular... the meaning of particular terms, or the relationships between some practices in China or some practices in India, finding out what the actual dates, if any, of Bodhidharma were, that kind of scholarship, mostly kind of sleuthing and reporting. And then next, that's one kind of way to participate in Zen life.

[23:28]

Next, you know, that's one way somebody spends their whole life in studying Zen. Next is the person who practices, you know, and if we made it into a kind of joke, you know, the person who's always got some gut level, you know, is always grunting and not saying anything very clearly, and it's all shouting and whacks. That kind of, you know, that's too extreme, but working out what you Your relationship in that situation is right to person or tree or food or kitchen or whatever you're doing, you know. But it doesn't have any relationship to, you know, out there, newspapers, magazines, society at large, books. That doesn't exist. What exists is just what you come in contact with.

[24:57]

And that you can't study or be a scholar of or try to mix. Now, next step is very rare, you know, Nagarjuna or Dogen. Someone who... Anyway, this is the way Suzuki Roshan thought of it and his teacher, who was a scholar, thought of it. Although Suzuki Roshi studied, you know, many, many, many, many years, that study was never to present anything, but just to work in a direct relationship with one or two or three or four people. And in those emotional terms, your scholarship exists, not in some mental framework. I don't know if I'm making sense. In other words, whatever value studying Nagarjuna or Madhyamaka or Abhidharma has,

[26:25]

comes out and only exists in the context of what happens between two or three people or in your own life. Or however, you know, actually what is the person next to you? When you look closely you find the whole world is next to you, is right here. So, Zen practice is peculiar in that way in that it has no existence outside this particular kind of context, between two people, or you yourself, or between several people.

[27:29]

And only in that way do we have any role in society. I don't know. What I'm speaking to are a great number of assumptions about what religion might be or practice might be, and I'm not naming them all, because that would take several lectures, you know. So the point I'm making may not be so clear, but Zen practice is intimately and personally

[28:47]

day by, moment by moment, involved in society and the environment as one activity. And yet we don't take some social stance or position or try to communicate about it by writing books or something like that. If we write something, it's only to elucidate something for people in this kind of context. But this context extends. Because of Buddhist, Zen way of looking at things, this context extends to everything. So there's no way to learn something in Zen or come here to practice to acquire some better understanding or something. It's only this relationship right now between us and each other, without any value placed on it. So from that point of view, all of

[30:14]

whether we are known outside here or anybody has ever heard of us. It doesn't mean anything. We may have to understand society and other things. We don't have to have some identity in society, other than that which people give us. So this practice maybe could be described as to know what we really want to do and just to do that right now, starting this moment, in this context, without any idea of something existing out there which we have reference to, which will determine the value of our actions or what we do.

[31:41]

And that which is happening with us, which we can't really separate out, is the same, just this. And it may lead us anywhere, always, to some other context maybe. But in this we have no identity or that outside of this context which affects this moment. As if we're in the wilderness and every path led just farther into more wilderness. So we stay right where we are If you have some questions, something we should talk about.

[33:39]

In what way is that different from any other particular way of participating with other people? Namely, eating and meals? No different. We know, we know so much and if you're ready, you know, without any particular idea. Everything comes to our rescue. So much comes to our rescue. We think we don't know what to do, but you just do it. If one of our practices is to never hesitate. If some opportunity, something has to be done, you do it. Someone calls your name?

[34:57]

If someone says, would you help with clean-up? You get up and go. You don't think even for a second. Well, rather not. Well, maybe I could put it off a minute. Just okay. That's some kind of practice. So that you are like at the tip of the wave of events. Not back there with the Russian values. Though study is just something we do, and it helps make things available to us. But we don't know what. At some moment, as a context, a situation demands it, something will come up. And as I've said before, this is the real meaning of the lineage, because at this level, where you cease to try to organize what you're learning by sorting and filing,

[36:23]

buys a tracking mind of trying to organize it into some mental framework. What comes to you mentally or in the form of ideas, you understand in the form of ideas. What comes to you in the form of bowing, you just bow. What comes to you in the form of chanting, you just chant. What comes to you in the form of standing next to someone, comes to you in that form. You don't try to give it some overall mental system and try to say, well, that means this and that, etc. Sometimes we can do that, but if you do that, if you can do that, you learn so much. You don't know what you know, but all of the Buddhas and patriarchs are there. So you may know things that you learned from your teacher, which your teacher never told you, but are there when you're ready. Well, it makes life interesting. I mean, there's no reason to... In other words, if we take

[38:13]

as a value. Survival of the human race is essential. We'll make a big mistake, you know, we won't be able to do anything with dispassion, with accuracy. But since we have been invested in this form, We should try to. We have some responsibility, I think, for each one of us and for all of us. But do not kill, you know. The first precept means don't sacrifice other things to your own continuation. But the continuation of the whole will continue. It's actually not very important, but it's some kind of sport or aesthetic. I don't know. We should try. Don't you think so? Do you understand what I mean?

[39:40]

You know, but if we lose, it's of no cosmic importance or personal importance. But we should try, because that's one thing we do. But we shouldn't try too hard. Anyway, that's my view. There is, as, you know, Dogen says so many interesting things. He says, In water there are seas and rivers in water. And even in flame there is some intelligence. So intelligence or our own nature is everywhere. What we What actually you consider important is it's not a matter of being or non-being or survival. It's not up to that kind of question. It doesn't exist in those terms of existing or non-existing.

[41:04]

What you call the wax and the glint and the building, I think it draws a supreme function and enlightens us. How important is it? How important to practice Buddhism? Wax, you know, mean the inexpressible, right? But as Dogen says, actually everything is inexpressible, even the expressed is inexpressible. So if you stick to wax and say, The expression of the inexpressible, it's some narrow idea. Everything is inexpressible. So, we should be able to understand at least one other person completely.

[42:43]

Usually it's not husband and wife, but it could be. Maybe it's better if you can understand several people or many people, but the practice is to understand at least one other person completely. So you can do everything just as they do or not. Then there's some freedom. It's quite interesting because The differences between people aren't there because they're... No, I don't know how to express this. Sometimes, like between teacher and disciple, Everything is done exactly alike. Anything the teacher does, the disciple can do with no effort, no problem. Then you can actually be very different. You can do something quite different and surprise each other in some way. You can communicate in some way.

[44:13]

You know, if you try to do this practice at a mental level, trying to understand it or having your own experience, it's too limited. You have to be able to have another person's experience or the experience of anything. And that experience isn't in terms of thinking it out. It's just... As we understand each other, say, mentally, someone says, A, and you understand exactly what he means in you, A1. But your body and your emotions and everything that moves

[45:14]

should be able to understand directly another person, emotion to emotion, body to body. So there's no intermediary of thinking about it or imagining, oh, I feel the same. You just feel the same. You know your feeling is moving with another person. With that kind of familiarity, It unlocks some secrets in how you can move with yourself, this complex being you are, which has inherited so many teachings and so many bloodstreams. I think I'm confused about, like, every time you come back from the city, I feel, you know, I feel that separation, like, like, you know, what's going on in the newspapers, and, you know, all the stuff that's, like, happening out there. And it just seems like this contradiction between, um, when you spoke of our responsibility to our society, and then

[46:43]

being at Tassajara where we don't have contact with anyone else. I don't see how this fits together. You mean how we are being socially responsible by being here at Tassajara? Because the only way I can make sense of it is in terms of time. Well, we spend a certain amount of time here and then Is it some other time you want to do something else? And then what does that have to do with just each moment? How many people would you like to know? Here there's 50. In the city, if you live in the city, how many people will you know? I'm not asking you exactly to answer, just... Do you understand what I mean by that? When you say responsibilities to society,

[48:08]

I didn't exactly say responsibility to society. I said, if we just exist in society as we exist here and we shop, go to the markets and we grow some food and people come here and visit. In the various ways that Tassajara exists and survives in society, that's all we have to do. Anyway, Zen as a... maybe someone else should do something else, but Zen as a practice doesn't make some pronouncements. This is the way to live or something. It just lives that way. That's all. So we find out how we can live and how we can... and Zen and Zazen, sitting practice and practicing with others is some kind of shortcut.

[49:38]

So we practice and live this way and survive in our society. That's all. There isn't any need to do anything more. From that, that's a great deal actually. Yeah? I'm sorry, you'll have to say it again a little louder. This point of view of Buddhism? Oh, I don't know if there's any need to say there's a need. Anyway, we're doing it. We want to do it. Okay? Is that enough? We don't have to work out some theory. Actually, there are theories, you know, and I can... The seventh booming, boomy,

[51:03]

You know, the bhumi is the stages of the joyful one, the stainless one, and the shining one, and the flaming one, et cetera. The seventh bhumi is, I think the seventh, is the far-reaching. The far-reaching is the real, is an attempt to describe the real interconnections between things, not the mental world of connections or how we can describe and act on the world mentally, but what the real world of connections are between us and everything. And how just practicing here you're connected with everything. And how this practice exists for many people just because you're here. and Tassajara in San Francisco and Green Gulch, and many people in some relationship to that. But even without those obvious relationships of various people with Tassajara, Green Gulch and San Francisco, still there are some many, many, many interconnections which are the effect of our practicing together and the effect of an individual who has

[52:31]

reach that stage of the seventh book where his actions, all actions penetrate everywhere without writing a book about it. Do other animals care about the seventh book? I think so. Don't you think so? What's an animal? What do you actually ask? Say that I say, they don't care. What does that have to do with you? Well, I think it makes... If I think that they don't care, aren't involved in practice or something, it makes me feel... It doesn't make me feel positive. It makes me feel like I'm good.

[54:01]

But isn't that just some, you know, mental framework, you know? You're either part or you're not part. You don't have to have some framework which, by its description of relating you to everything, makes you feel that you're related to everything. You know, we want actually to have that kind of encouragement, particularly when we're first practicing, and that's what the Bhumis are. Seventh Bhumi is just a description of how we find the actual connections between things, whales and trees and insects and you, So it includes, it's a description of how things are, but we only make the description to encourage you to have some sense of purpose. But maybe, I never talked with whales, and I don't know, but maybe they have some sense

[55:24]

culture or way they encourage each other to. There must be some, from what I know of animals, there seem to be some ideal particularly more complex animals, of behavior. You know, the wolf maybe behaves more perfectly. One wolf is some ideal of the best hunter, you know, or something like that, that the wolves attempt to conform to, or protect the best hunter, or something like that. There seem to be values in various kinds of animals, drugs, of their life ancestry. There were elephants, to more white people, which you can't be. These are white people, which you can't be because they're closer to us in terms of our ancestry. The whales and the elephants are on one and odd level. It has something to do with the size and the complexity of the interstate. Certain kinds of values appear, like the quantum states,

[56:51]

Yes, that's my impression. Such descriptions are a function of our complexity. But what we're actually talking about is a matter of complexity, but if you were an insect, you'd be an insect. That's all. Do you know, when you look at an insect, do you realize if you were that form, that's what you'd be? Do you understand what I mean? It seems like an ideal use to give up attachments to a girl. That's sort of my question, right? Do other animals have that kind of idea? I don't think... For the most part, other animals don't hoard the way we do. I mean, whales don't build cities and accumulate possessions.

[58:20]

But I guess some animals accumulate possessions in the sense of territory. But our particular practice in Buddhism, in relationship to society, is to emphasize no possessiveness. No possessiveness even over our own states of being, thoughts, territory, etc. If a person wanted to practice self-discipline, and it's a social situation surrounding this person was such that there was no approval anywhere for that person to do this,

[59:21]

but he could nevertheless maybe survive and do it by walking out into the woods or something. Would you say that this person would be justified in practicing? Why are you creating that question? At Tassajara during, excuse me for bringing up the F season. At Tassajara during the F season, there was one point in the summer when there were several people having a great deal of difficulty with their lives at Tassajara or class or something.

[60:24]

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