Consciously, one may just move through something which is in a relative way tangible, like a wall or a door or something like that. Because the phenomena seems totally like bubble-like, and there is nothing tangible at all. So, there would be different, different experiences. Even the time when you experience like bubble-like, is all called the dissolving of appearance, dissolving of duality, I should say, the dissolving of the phenomena of appearance. And, so therefore, you see, one can understand what hell-realm means, and one can understand

[01:09]

what reflection means. And, so therefore we understand what relative means, all facade, all facade. It's simply, to put it, one big problem is there, basically, and that is the attachment, actually, that is the grasping. Now, attachment seems a little bit more wayward, but grasping inside, you know, there is a grasping inside, that is the biggest problem. And, that is the one which does not allow the space, which does not let things see as they are. And, it's something so hard that we try so many ways, takes a long time to get rid of it. And, that's natural, it's also like, it's like you have a, your mind is, grasping mind is like a magnetic mind, which is there, immediately grasps, you know. Even you tell it not to grasp, but then it grasps not to grasp, for instance.

[02:11]

It will trick you, you know, even though, it's just like daylight robbery, you know, it's like that. It's a daylight robbery style in front of your eyes. You say, not to grasp. Okay, I won't grasp. Very serious, there. And, like that kind of thing. So, so the meditation is so effective. So cutting through from that point, really getting to that essence, getting, seeing that facade and dissolving this facade. And, it's very important, you should all do a lot of meditation. You should really cut through this facade. It appears like a reality, but not real. This is not real. Yeah. It's dangerous to tell to big companies.

[03:13]

People won't buy the things and keep on doing meditation. But actually, it is, that's called facade. Facade. The old facade. And so, therefore, it is, hell dream is also facade, you should understand. Human dream, as much as this reality is a facade, the hell dream is also facade, the devas is also facade. Nothing you can trust upon. They are all the experience of different make-ups of mind. Different mental make-ups. And different mental make-ups, how do we make-up? By grasping. And we divide ourselves tremendously. So then naturally, incredible phenomena appears. There is not only this planet. We have millions and millions of planets, millions of beings, which we could even not think about it.

[04:23]

In our science fiction book, they are making extraterrestrial people with such and such form. But they are form we cannot even imagine, and we could be like those forms in the future. We may have like, you know, on each tip of our finger, each tip of our finger, tremendous, you know, each tip of our finger we could have like, very interesting things. Because all facades really appears in every unlimited way. We would just have, you know, like one hundred fingers, and that's all representing ourselves. Like the, one of the immediate kind of species which we can see is the water species,

[05:33]

which you can see in the ocean. Tremendous different kinds of fish, octopus, then different fish with lights, fish with, there are fish with lights also. Different things, you cannot even imagine, there are so many things which we haven't seen also. I'm sure that ocean people, those who go inside and taking photographs, they haven't seen. And each phenomena, experience of that relative thing is incredible. So, one of the, you see, human all facade structure of this karma functions in this system, that being a human being we have two eyes here, one nose here, and one mouth here. Can you imagine if our mouth is here, the whole restaurant table will be there. We would be eating, you know, maybe upside down.

[06:43]

And there are many realms like that where there are incredible things happening. And this is all the experience of all facades, you know, just different, unlimited creations. I was thinking about that word facades. With the word masquerade, does the grasping mind make things to masquerade as something different than they are? The grasping mind makes something different. Appear to be different than they are. No, you know... You said there are things as they are, so... The question of grasping mind is a question of a subtle grasping mind and a gross grasping mind. At the present it seems a lot of the mind is going through tremendous gross grasping mind, which cannot even see.

[07:51]

That's one of the reasons why we cannot perform the right kind of karma and the wrong kind of karma. It's because we are not able to see the far away future. So even you try to do things, even you don't want to go to a very difficult stage, but you do things which you do the wrong way. Because the grasping mind, even karmic mind is a grasping mind, but karmic mind cannot see straight away. Cannot see what to expect. Doesn't know the knowledge of the law. So therefore, it's a question, that's also another question. You know, it's not necessarily. Grasping mind, every grasping mind is in search of happiness, is in search of something. But the grasping, that is karma, you see. The tremendous cycle of reaction, cycle is karma. But that does not necessarily mean that it will see the way it is exactly. But grasping mind, with the support of some knowledge, will see something.

[08:55]

So that is karmic mind. Karmic mind. The right karma and the wrong karma. Some are so far away duration, like something which would be happening, like certain things you do which would happen after one million years. Or after one thousand lifetimes. Or certain practice. There is, during one of the Buddha's time, there was this beggar. And that day he went out and he found somebody gave him some grains of rice. And then he has this rice in his begging bowl. And there Buddha came. And seeing Buddha, he got so much, his heart completely opens. And Buddha's blessing also completely opens. The two mutually work. He took out the rice and offered it as a mandala, a sprinkle of mandala. And then in one of his next lifetime, I think next lifetime, he became the emperor of the four continents.

[10:00]

Emperor of the four continents. Because of his complete, whatever he has, that was it. And he completely kind of offered it with his tremendous devotion, seeing the Buddha. And therefore the strength of the enlightened power and his openness totally mingled where he was able to be born as the emperor of the four continents. So there are certain things so far away, sometimes even you do not know things happen currently in that way. So the structure of the relative mind is just amazing. And no matter what it is, basically they are all facades. It's all facades. And one of the great teachers in Tibet is called Gendun Chombel. He was the Gelug Lama, very, very famous teacher. Very great teacher. And sometimes in Tibet, you see, we have many sad things also happen.

[11:05]

There are also negative forces in Tibet. Those who do not, wherever there is a good, there is a bad. We have a saying. And this teacher was the first Tibetan lama who wrote so many, of course there are many teachings given in Tibet. He wrote a text on Madhyamika, the view on the middle path. He wrote a constitution of Tibet, which scared the Tibetan bureaucrats. Yes. He wrote a democratic constitution of Tibet, which Tibetan, certain people, bureaucrats didn't like it at all. It's a threat to the, they thought it's a threat to their power system. And he wrote, he made a map of Tibet. He went to Sanskrit University in Benaras,

[12:09]

and he learned about, all together he speak about 13 to 20 different languages. Completely he learned. And a very great scholar, very great teacher. And he also wrote a sexologist in Tibet. The art of love. And he was a Gelug monk. And a Geshe. Not only a monk, he was a Geshe. And then, I think he was an extraordinary being. Extraordinary being. His works are incredible. And then in this Madhyamika teaching, it's one of the most interesting Madhyamika, tremendous clarity is shown in this Madhyamika teaching. Especially it's very good for the work in the West. I think because many teachings are given in a traditional way.

[13:10]

And if we are to explain you from the traditional way, you know, you will have to go through the studies of the, a lot of traditional background, that kind of cultural way of thinking. There's a certain cultural way of thinking which the teachings present. And then if that cultural way of background is not there, the communication will be very difficult. So therefore the teaching has to be put into this cultural way of thinking, you see. So his way of communication was very much clarity. It is not very long, it is about 25 to 30 pages. And I don't have the text. Hope someday I can get the text and able to tell you. But I remember in one of the texts, in one of the pages he explained, he explained about the all-facade nature, tremendous experience of the senses and all those things. He said that for us to walk with the two legs,

[14:18]

here, it seems very comfortable. But for a dog, you know, it's very difficult. Because the relative, that kind of creation, force, energy, is not constituted in such a way. And also the world looks different to them, to us, the world looks different. And the world looks different to a human being as much as the world looks different to a fishery, where the water is the most beautiful house. And for us, it is the death. To live in the water for one hour without oxygen, it's like the coffin then. And the world of humans and the world of lizards is so different. The lizard can climb on a wall without any problem, and then go on the roof upside down, and stay for two days to three days without moving there.

[15:19]

And it's perfectly well, completely in its own world. Now, who experiences this all-facade? It's the mind. The mind has the strength. The mind has developed in such a structure, the psychic force of the structure, the energy structure, can stay in such a state. So the lizard can sit upside down for days and days without falling down. While if we try there, we will break our neck and break our legs. But now, the moment the consciousness is out of this body, a human consciousness out of the body who is standing up, and a lizard consciousness who is on the ceiling facing upside down,

[16:21]

the lizard will fall down, and the human being who is standing up will fall down too. The lizard now cannot stay there because the consciousness is gone. So even if you try to put it there, it will fall down. So now who is experiencing that state is no more there. So therefore, the experience of the hell realm is also like that. And the experience of the human dream is as much as real, as much as real as in the dream. So from that point you can understand that there is a hell realm, there is a hungry ghost, there is a, you know, different states of those dreams, simply because of not predominantly they are there, because simply our own karmic reflection, they are happening in that way. So does it make sense? So do you think there is a hell?

[17:22]

Do you think it's possible that there is a hell? There is a possible, right? There is a possible for everything. And maybe in one of the lifetime we may have our mouth on top of our head. If we can remember, you know, it would be interesting. Either we have to climb the table and eat the food. Catch it. So therefore, now understanding that, that's enough to understand for you two, that there is the possibility. It's called the possibility, the universal of possibility. Our universe is called the universal of possibility. Because possibility, everything, the minds, what the mind will think and what the mind will not think is unlimited. And what the mind will do and what the mind will not do is just, you just name it and it will just do it. I went to one day, to cross a little, to walking there,

[18:28]

and I said, do you have, do you serve, you know, because they have all the fish products, and in Tibet we don't eat fish products all the time. So I said, do you have chicken or something? He said, you name it, we got it. So, you know, it's called the possibility. You just name it in your mind and it will be there. I like what he said, you know, he said, you name it, we got it. So that is enough to understand on the different states of hell realm, you know. We have to look how those states manifest. Instead of, you know, trying to figure out, someone say, oh, it is 1,000 kilometers down there, and someone say, no, did you saw it? And you say, no. Then how do you believe?

[19:30]

Kind of those things creates unnecessary argument. You know, we may spend our days and days arguing, but never we can have a final answer, you know. We can spend our rest of the life arguing there is a hell or not, you know, until the time of the death. And so there is no point. One has to get to the point, and the point is to understand how those realms appears and how they are. Now, you know, why these different states explain, it's very important from the dharma point, because first of all, we understand that different realms are there, and they exist in suffering, and so that we could, and they exist in suffering, so we could avoid those sufferings. And second thing, we, not only they are something real, but they are all facets, all faceted experiences. So therefore, we come to understand that is, fundamentally is not something it is there.

[20:31]

Fundamentally, it is something like a very false experiences. So we do not trust that false experience. We see the truth and we awake from the state, so therefore it's called the awakened state. What is awakened state? Awake from that false, all faceted experience, that is called awakened state. Otherwise, you know, right now we are awake, we are not asleep. So we would use the word awake right now. But right now one is not awake, one is asleep. You know, one is asleep in the state like that. There is one, one teaching, in one sutra, it says two persons walking on the beach, two persons walking on the beach, and one is an enlightened being and one is an ordinary being. And while they are resting on the beach, this is a, this is, this is a teaching explaining example. While these two persons are on the beach,

[21:33]

one is, one can see the mind of the others and one has the strength to see, read the mind of the others. And then one is asleep and one is not asleep. The one who is asleep is going through tremendous fear. The experience of the appearance in his mind is that the ocean waves are coming 200 meters high, for example, 200 meters high, rushing and strong, and then the tremendous creatures and sharks and whatever, all these things are coming to eat him up. And he is in a tremendous fear, you know, and he just, it's like a nightmare, one goes through a nightmare. It's simply like we go through a nightmare, that's all. What is it? And then one who is sitting next to that, one who is having the experience of nightmare, is reading the mind of one who is going through the nightmare and then seeing totally no reason.

[22:35]

There was no wave, there was no, there was no creature there to eat him, you know, there was nothing happening. So then the bodhisattva, bodhisattva, you know, either wakes him or slaps him to wake up, and when the person wakes up, and then there was, one is free from the fear of the confusion. There was no such thing as happening. Similarly, that is the state, we awake from this state, that is called the enlightened state. That is called the enlightened state. To awake from this state is called the enlightened state. Otherwise, what is enlightened? This is, that's not good. That is called the enlightened state. To awake from such a state, that is called the enlightened state. So that's how the bodhisattva wakes up, that's how the, that's how the, the whole, whole evolving of the practice gives,

[23:36]

and we work it that way, so we awake ourself from the state of sleep, from the state of two minutes. And this is a pretty, you know, pretty heavy sleep. Pretty heavy sleep. It's a pretty heavy sleep. It's not a light sleep, naturally, I would say. How much we go through this sleep, and then trying to be so real and trying to play with this energy is just, you know, incredible, how we go through this sleep. And it's not definitely, it's not going to be easy to awake from this sleep. You would need a very, very powerful system, a very powerful strength to awake from this sleep. And that's not going to be easy to awake from this sleep, just like that. Just thinking of, you know,

[24:37]

that state would not make that difference. Or just, you know, trying to, trying to, you know, do some, trying to do some moral concepts, moral teaching, that would not make a person realize, though it will help, but, you know, it would not make things. What you need is a tremendous power, so something like, you know, crazy wisdom, or very powerful state of, a state of, a powerful state of practice. So Mantrayana practice, Devajrayana practice is, is a question of one lifetime realization, because by applying that practice in one's life, one would be able to cut through this state. And you would need to sacrifice yourself and dedicate yourself for such a state.

[25:38]

It's not that easy also, it would require many things. And to dedicate, you have to understand the values of that state. If you do not understand the value of this state, then you would not commit yourself, because one would not have the eye to do it. We need the special eye, called the third eye. Instead of trying to paint a third eye there, you know, and try to entertain oneself with the eye, I heard some people, you know, they say, oh, I'm going to make you some third eye, you know. I heard people go to the psychic and they make some third eye on you, and now I have given you the third eye. You know, it's not like that. The third eye is not a physical eye, you know. Third eye is a wisdom eye, which is able to cut through that. That's called a wisdom eye. There are third eyes, you know. In other planets there are beings with third eyes. It's not a big deal. There are certain beings with, you know, hundreds of eyes.

[26:38]

Certain spirits have a lot of eyes. They have bodies, certain spirits, they have eyes all over their body. And there are different kinds of things. But that does not mean it's a third eye. And in the West, people get so attracted to the third eye. But it doesn't work like that. Third eye is a wisdom mind. It's the wisdom eye, which is able to see that and able to direct us inside. It directs us by us, you see. Direct to us on the path. It's the blessing, the most strongest blessing come within us, direct us, to remove our confusion and able to go through that. That is the third eye. When you have a mind like that, that is called third eye. It's not a painted eye. So then, in waking from this state of sleep,

[27:39]

like in Tibet, Tibet has been a very powerful place for spiritual practice. Because the living tradition of this enlightened mind in Tibet, many lamas have gone through rainbow body realization. And many didn't go through rainbow body realization, but they have attained the state of realization. They were able to awake from the sleep. But they did not wake just like that. They really did. They made the effort. They really integrate themselves to the teaching and actualize their life into that state. Therefore, they are able to get realized. There is no difference in their mind and our mind. You should not think that their mind was a better quality and our mind is not that. You should not discourage yourself. Truly. And with the teaching like, you know, in the West, you really have received

[28:42]

a lot of higher teachings, a lot of Mahamudra and Dzogchen teachings. And now you really have to work that out. And then you can see the strength of that teaching. And they have really done a great deal over there. They spent... There was a reason. They went to the mountains, went to the caves, they spent like six years to nine years into retreat. It was important to do a retreat because in order to understand this whole facade, the whole experience, one needs tremendous wisdom, work inside. Otherwise one cannot practically come to that point to see this as a whole facade. The understanding right now, today you have some understanding, but it would not last long. But when you have a genuine experience inside, that you can see just truly, without any support of anything.

[29:43]

You would not need the support of theory. You would not need the support of anything. You can just see as it is. And that is the most important thing. But to get to that stage, the understanding is very important also. Without the understanding, without the hearing of the teaching, one would not know what is really happening. You would not know where you are also. You find out by the teaching which state you are, whether you are still caught or whether you are not caught. Some people think that they are enlightened even though they are not enlightened. And so the teaching gives the opportunity to see oneself, whether one is enlightened or not. So you can see yourself. And if you are not, then you can do the ways which can bring the state of enlightenment. And if you are already, then you don't have to do. Which means then you are not living truly

[30:46]

in the old facade experience. Can you talk a little bit about the difference between the grasping mind and just being sad if somebody is sick and they are going to die? The difference between, you know, wanting to do something so it doesn't happen and looks like it's going to happen. You said grasping mind and what? You know how you said before about just, you know, no judgements, the things that happen, that just happen. So how do you deal with the things that happen that, you know, that make you sad? Do you just be sad or do you try to do something

[31:47]

to make it not happen? Well, you know, you can't do much if someone is, for instance, dying. If someone is dying, what you can do? You cannot bring back someone from death. But you can help them. You can help them if you know how to help them. You have to know how to help them. The right way. But if you are next to them and most of the time I see that people do not know how to help. Like we create a lot of emotions and that would not help. You are feeding another kind of fear, you are feeding another kind of emotion experience to the other being and that creates tremendous suffering. That's the wrong approach.

[32:48]

So if you really love somebody, then you have to know how to be next to a person who is dying and show them the way to the next life or at least show them a peace of mind. And sadness would not help anything. If you become sad, it won't help the other person. It won't help you and it won't help the other person. What you will get? Nothing. What the other will get? Nothing. It is just an experience which you will go through. So you have to get out of that experience and you have to be truthful. You have to be honest and know the right way and help. So you have to know the right way. That's important. Groups, I'm a little confused. Yesterday we were talking about

[33:51]

the Four Noble Truths and the suffering and going into the suffering and to allow these things in your meditation. And something you've noticed in the West, we tend to run away and try to push away the suffering. And you have said, allow it, don't run away from it. And I'm confused because today the enlightened one slaps us or slaps the one who's dreaming and he or she wakes up from that. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yes. No, that is not a problem. That is what allow means. Allow is a meditation state.

[34:56]

It's a state. But enlightened one has to wake up one who does not know how to allow also. This is a step before we learn to allow. When the time comes when you know to allow yourself, at that time you are awake and you are trying to remain awake. But before you know how to be awake, you need to be shaken. And now be awake and allow yourself. So you awake and you learn to allow yourself. So, that is the difference. Allow yourself to... First of all, one is grasping and attached to this old façade experience. Even the karma? Oh, the karma is naturally included in the old façade. It's just part of the package. It's just included inside that. All these things are just included.

[35:58]

In old façade, you know, there are so many trips that are included. All these religions are included, more than that. All these experiences are included. It's not one or two pieces. The whole thing is included. The whole experience of your attachment to this and that, and to, you know, grasping to something you think is spiritual or whatever, these are all, a lot of attachments are included. It's a very big thing, what old façade means. And one does not know that this is old façade, so one is grasping it very tightly, very seriously. You are deadly serious. Not only serious, but you are honestly serious. That's got to be, you see. That is great. And that's not good. You have to change your life. Kind of like that. Very serious. And that is the point where one has to shake up. That's the first point. Shake up.

[36:59]

Wake up. Wake up. Now, don't go crazy. Don't go crazy. You know, don't be into it. Don't get absorbed into it. You know, like the water absorbed into mud. Don't be absorbed. Just wake up. Now, once you wake up, and the next thing is, because we are so deadly serious and honestly serious, we have preconceived ideas how things should be. Good and bad. Rejection and separation. Because it all happens the moment that, you know, once we have that duality of mind, the splitting personality, everything happens. Rejection. Because you think there is a me, there is you. So the whole process of this confusion, like you see in your dream, you know, very example, clear example. I'm putting this example all the time. You know, you see those things, duality, but those are not duality. That's your own mind. So a lot of things like that,

[38:01]

you know, you discriminate. You discriminate your own self. You're saying that some of you is good and some of you is bad, actually. So therefore you lose the respect and value in yourself. So therefore you say, this phenomena is good, you know, for instance, in your dream you say, oh, this is a good thing. I like, that's my friend. You know, you go and hold and take them to a restaurant. And that's my enemy, you take them to the court and see them, put them in the jail. Kind of like that discrimination. And we are deceiving also. It's a self-deception. It's the whole interpretation of the ego. So, the second stage after waking up, then one is taught, that is your nature. That is the teaching. The recognition introduced to you.

[39:04]

That is your mind. That is your phenomena. Do not judge. Allow it. Whether it's good, whether it's bad. There is no fundamental thing as good and no fundamental thing as bad. The good and bad are also, actually, even good we think is not good in a way. Because it's again grasping what you think is good also. The moment you have a clinging, you know, you think it's good, but still it's a cause of samsara. It's become a cause to be born in a state of re-empire, but it does not benefit you to get out of that. So, from the essence nature, everything is nourishment. Because you will, all facade experiences, like bubble-like nature disappears, you know, which bubble is better, you're going to say? The blue bubble or the red bubble? You see, there are bubbles. One is, you know, blue bubble, and one is red bubble,

[40:05]

and one is white bubble. You know, you have no difference between them. And they are simply a bubble. So, more than that, you know, everything, all this depression, like the depression, for instance, like something painful, fear, those very material become the sources of our blissfulness. They become the nourishment. Because you allow, and there is no such thing as depression, because the world grasping is not there, so there is no one to identify it as a depression. The whole identification comes from a duality mind, from ego, you know, fear, rejection. So, your total absence of fear does not have such thing as depression there. So, everything naturally is a pure spontaneity of the wisdom nature, wisdom energy. And its strength, as much as you can see,

[41:09]

the strength in this ordinary way, let's say, the strength, the very difference now is beyond concept, the strength of the wisdom mind. Ordinary mind power is someone can affect somebody, as you can see, how much mind can affect. In a state of wisdom mind, that because it's a completely dissolving of this old facade, it can just like, it's like taking a deep breath in, and there it is everybody, the power of the strength of the mind. Because there is no such thing as dual, no separation at that stage. You celebrate with everyone, you see. It's a great celebration without any separation. But right now we have to celebrate, we have to make a lot of different work. And we cannot celebrate, we can celebrate in such and such places.

[42:11]

We will need a lot of different works. You have to, you know, celebrate, we have to rent a place, then we need the music, then we need this and we need that. And the greatest celebration one can do all the time in a state like that, and that's, so those experiences are very different. One is the enlightened experience, and one is the living in the old facade experience. And so you see, everything is happening from our mind, and it's very important that, how much important that we must have the right view and the right understanding, otherwise we will be caught in a confusion. So that's very important, you see. You should be brave, you know, you should not be afraid. If you're afraid, it's not good, and all the teachings that encourage

[43:12]

should be brave, you know, should not be like a big mind. And the teachings gives you the brave mind, because not it will give you just like that, but when you're willing to work with it, then it will show you the strength in yourself. It's called the confidence of the mind. It's confidence of the mind, it's like you trust yourself totally, completely. It's not a fanaticism kind of trust. The fanaticism trust, you know, is different. If the fanaticism person trusts, you come and sit and talk to them. After sometime you ask one or two things, they get scared, and they say, oh, I don't want to hear now. That is the, we call, the hitting to the point, you know, you dig to the point, and when you raise that up, the fear manifests, because the duality is still there, they're still grasping at the old facade, so they get afraid, because their safety, comfortableness,

[44:14]

which they believe by the grasping is there, it has been shaken up. So, therefore, since there is no trust, the old fundamental trust is lost, so that one can become vulnerable again. So the point of practice is that one has the total clarity of the wisdom, where there is no sense of confusion and fear. That is called the enlightened mind. That is called the total trust in oneself. And until you have not reached that state, as I said, you know, if someone says, you are created, yes, this must be true, you know. And because there is this, you know, a great guru sitting over there, a great teacher sitting over there, and, you know, the vibration feels so great, you know, and it's very important for Westerners to have a vibration. And in the East also, you know, it's so important. And then, oh, the music is there, the light music is there, the vibration is so good, you know. And he says, it's right, and it must be right, you know.

[45:16]

And then, oh, you spend about two months, three months, or a year, or two years, and then after sometimes you think that, oh, that's not true, because there's another person who thinks you're not created, so let's go, you know. And I think it's true, you know, you're not created. And then someday again someone will say, oh, you are created and you are not created, you are both, you know. And that sounds much better sense, you know. And like that, you have no trust in yourself. You do not know yourself, kind of like that. And it will happen all the time. It's endless journey, endless. And once you have, you know, understand what is all façade mean, and understanding is not enough, realisation, the practical realisation. And then, no matter what people want to say, if someone say, oh, Buddha is going to come next to you and going to teach that, you know, or such and such, or whatever,

[46:18]

you know, you have seen your inner Buddha nature, you have seen your inner enlightened state, and you have an appreciation for that, but there is no particular thing. Yes. So, it's different. If someone say, oh, something, oh, something fantastic, you know, people are talking about this great psychic, you know, saying that, you know, all these things, but you would not have, your mind would not be moved, because you have seen the depth of the clarity. I have difficulty with the possibility that the body holds the attitude of the mind, and therefore I should, by altering the attitude of my mind, be able to free my body. Yes, body does not hold the attitude. I think we can, our grasping, in order to prove our grasping,

[47:22]

we try to prove our body, you see. So it's become like a very vague idea, actually. And when you look deeper into it, the body, when we talk about body, the body is not only one. There are five skanda in body. The feeling, the consciousness, the body, and all the structures. And if you say, when we say Charles, you would just put yourself, picture yourself, but which is Charles? If you cut this finger and put it on the table, is that Charles? No one would say that Charles is a piece of finger. But yet, we try to describe, bring this body, and every other aspect like that, you know. And if you cut your hair and put it there, and there's a piece of hair. And then, you know, this finger. And then when you cut from here, you put a piece of meat flesh there. Now that's not a finger, that's become a flesh of meat. And then into Adam. And so the name changes, you know, so there's no substantial thing there. There's no inherent and substantial.

[48:24]

But yet, this tremendous collection of this interdependent karma is able to make you feel that there is something real. But actually, this is all the way the mind holds this kind of karma. And so therefore, it's a very big slip, you know what I'm saying. It's a tremendous thing to cut it through. So, now have a rest for... We covered yesterday the four noble truths. And then we have gone through the karma. We have gone through the impermanence. And we have gone through the... Today, basically we have been talking this afternoon on a great deal of how the relative phenomena appears and how does it function. And that's very important to know these things

[49:26]

so even it helps us in understanding the karma. And these are the two bodhicitta mind. Even there's a relative bodhicitta mind and then there's an ultimate bodhicitta mind. The relative bodhicitta mind works with the functionings of the phenomena relatively. And the ultimate bodhicitta mind works with the meditation, with the understanding of the meditation technique. So that's how the relative bodhicitta mind and the ultimate bodhicitta mind. Now in getting deeper into ultimate bodhicitta mind, there is different understanding of the ultimate state in Mahayana. There's a different understanding on the ultimate state on different stages on the mind. As explained earlier this morning, once that fundamental confusion, that separation is there,

[50:28]

then so many paths are derived in our world. So many teachings are presented to us and they have different, different understanding what realization means. So now the second thing is understanding of what realization means in levels of consciousness understanding. What enlightenment means in certain teachings and what enlightenment in other teachings may have different understanding. It does not mean that everyone's enlightenment means the same thing. What enlightenment means in certain teachings could be to be born into a heavenly realm or in certain way to experience something good. And what is the experience of the Arhat state experience is different than the bodhisattva state enlightenment.

[51:30]

And the first stages of bodhisattva enlightenment, the second one is different from the first one. And because they go deeper and deeper and more and more profound until the total absence of the total duality, which is called the ultimate realization, is called the total rainbow body of the exhaustion of the dharma and exhaustion of the mind. Exhaustion of the minds means the exhaustion of the phenomenal mind, exhaustion of the duality mind and the exhaustion of the dharma which are the manifestation of that mind. So until that, there is a great deal of different consciousness, understanding and realization into the state of the mind. And on those different levels we will come later on now on the Mahayana teaching, the Yogacara school, the school of Yogacara, the school of Madhyamika. In the school of Yogacara there are two different kinds of schools

[52:35]

and in the school of Madhyamika there are two different kinds of schools. So all together there are four different schools in the school of Mahayana and each one has their understanding and it goes deeper and deeper and deeper their understanding which you can see the difference of Yogacara is far more deeper than the Arhat state and the Yogacara and Mahayana goes even more profound from the view of Yogacara. So those teachings and our study will be... Now, so far this week what I have been teaching is the preliminary preparation and understanding of the general phenomena in the relative sense. Now the next step will be going deeper into the schools, different schools of Mahayana. The view, the school of Yogacara, the school of Madhyamika

[53:39]

and that makes the complete form of Sutrayana. And then after that, then it will be the Vajrayana, the four Kriyas, Upayoga, Mahayoga, Anutrayoga and then different Nadis, different channels. So I'm trying to explain within this two days' time. So next two days will be on the four different schools of different states of the realization. And that is how gradual path means the gradual experiences come from that. So now whatever we have gone since yesterday and today, whatever you don't understand, let's have discussion, okay? You ask me question and then we should clarify it so that you don't have any misunderstanding or whatever. In Four Noble Truths, in Karma, in Relative Appearance

[54:41]

and whatever the topics we went through. I don't think I can tell you what the Four Noble Truths are. So that was double history. You can hear the cassettes later on. Cassettes will wake you up. That is the blessing of the technology. There are certain books written on Four Noble Truths also. I believe there are certain books written on Four Noble Truths. Basically there are four Noble Truths. Understand the suffering, understanding the causes of suffering and the path and the realization. Those four are called the Four Noble Truths. Just understanding Four Noble Truths perfectly, there is a tremendous big change one can make in life. Four Noble Truths.

[55:45]

It's the most important thing, so therefore Buddha gave the first teaching on Four Noble Truths. I'm still on this question. Can you present it to me this way? You talked about positive karma and negative karma and neutral karma. Yes. And... I'm still on this question. It seemed at the time that it was, when you were speaking about it, that it was beneficial to accumulate positive karma through positive thought and action and speech and to not build up negative karma. Right. And then when you take refuge, you don't kill and you take certain vows to not do things.

[56:50]

Yes, you commit yourself. You commit yourself. Right. But it seems that when we get to a further stage, then that's all put aside and you don't deal with positive and negative karma. And what sort of sits uncomfortable with me is the idea that when you get to that stage and you put everything aside, then all that suffering that's happening in the world is put aside and you don't do anything to help alleviate it because you don't need to, because you realize that it's all samsara, it's all grasping, and that's a little unsettling. Yes, you are right. You are right on the stage, but what you didn't understand is you don't leave aside, you see.

[57:54]

The thing is you don't leave aside. You transmute it. It's different. Pushing aside means you're trying to escape. You're not escaping from the situation. As I said, the depression you allow. That's become the source of inspiration. The depression itself becomes the nourishment for the joy, for the true experience, the blissful experience into that stage. So it's not that you throw away the depression and then you try to run away from the facts of the life. You are very much into the life. You celebrate everything. You celebrate. It doesn't mean that you don't celebrate. You celebrate everything at that stage. I mean, right now we are not celebrating everything. Right now we are trying to escape, but at that time you are most open. You are open completely. You celebrate the whole thing. But right now we are not, you know, living the depression, you know,

[58:56]

and all these things. We are dividing ourselves. We have a lot of conceived ideas set up, but at that time you completely open yourself. You celebrate. And one of the celebrations is called the Gana Chakra, often, where you celebrate, transmit the whole energy into the pure energy and celebrate that. So that you will see, you know, in time when you do meditation, in time an experience will go deeper and deeper and then you will have quite a different understanding. And so, it's not that you are trying to escape from the situation of facts, which is depression. You are allowing the depression at that time. And you can see what really depression means at that stage. So you have to taste it, to put it in one way. It's like we taste the sugar. Until we don't taste the sugar, we would not know how sugar is. So we have to taste the sugar which we allow.

[59:58]

You are not running away at all. If one runs away, a bodhisattva cannot benefit a being. A bodhisattva is more open and dedicates oneself totally more than ever before, because celebrating completely into that state. So, it means, you know, it sounds like at the beginning there is the karma, which you take care, good and bad, which is the beginning part. And then later on, it sounds like there is, it's not that you try to leave things at the later on. At the later on, now you are distracted to eat everything. At the beginning, your digestive system is not good to eat everything. You just try to eat. You try to eat certain foods. Then you become stronger and stronger. Then you eat everything like that. So it's different. So you allow more later on.

[61:02]

Do you mean that the karma is blocking the passage of energy? When you say we celebrate, it's like the energy comes to us? I don't understand what you said. I said... No, I understand your accent, no problem. When you say you celebrate... Yes. It means that there is some blockages that don't allow the energy coming to us. Yes. These passages, these blockages are made by the karma. Is that... Yes, in a way like that, yes. I don't know, I don't think that I understand what you are talking about. And I ask you, is that... And then the blockages disappear when we experience the karma without getting attached to the karma.

[62:07]

And then the energy flows through us. You mean the karma blocks the energy? The karma blocks the passage of the energy. Now there are many kinds of energy, you know. Karma itself is an energy also. Yes. But what kind of... It definitely, you know, it obscures us from manifesting the wisdom energy. It definitely obscures to manifest the vitality of the wisdom energy. And this vitality is the energy? No, what I'm saying is the karma, karma mind, the obstructed mind. Karma mind is the obstructed mind. The karma is produced by a mind of split personality, a dualistic mind.

[63:10]

And that is certainly, that's called the karmic mind. So that karmic mind does not allow things. That karmic minds have many different setups. You don't, you only accept certain things and you don't accept certain things. Like you accept good things and you don't accept bad things. Because it's a dualistic mind. You live in the future. You do not live in the present. So you obstruct yourself. You just cannot eat and just be there. It seems that while you are eating the food you are thinking of the next bite. So you don't enjoy the present moment bite. So therefore it's obstructing the joy experience of the present moment. So that you can call like the energy is blocked. The energy of wisdom, which is the present experience. I was thinking when we are doing things by habit.

[64:16]

Yes, those are all, those are all karmas. They are all, that's all karmic experience. Then celebrating is... No celebrating, oh you want to know celebrating. Well because I try to understand that in a practical way. Well practical way we go to dance. We go to dance. Yes, energy dance. Energy will dance also there. Practical way of celebrating is, you see, when we allow every phenomena, when we allow every phenomena, then there is a tremendous experience of joy and bliss. Because the depression becomes the source of the joy. If you try to reject the depression, then you are not celebrating the wisdom energy.

[65:19]

The wisdom energy at that stage, you have to know how to celebrate, how to take it. Then it's hard, because as I said, your grasping mind is kind of a very picky mind. You see, it's a very picky mind. Unconsciously, even you hear teachings, even you are doing meditation, yet you are not able to give it up that. You still have a certain reserve. And actually that reserve is the self-deception. That reserve, very reserve, is your fear. It's something, the sense of losing something. Is the fear to be alone, as you say sometimes? Oh fear to be alone, you know, fear to be anything. It will manifest in different, different forms. To be alone is a fear. To not allow the situations, you know, you think, oh, the celebration means only we hear good music,

[66:22]

only we meet people we like, and then we dance, we go to a walk next to the beach. That's like celebration. But if you think that you are put in a dark room, and then all the loudspeaker there, you know, say, insulting you all the time, you know, and all the worst things you can imagine. All the worst things you can imagine, like, you know, insulting you, and, you know, and every worst thing. And the room is just mess, and it's dark, and it's the worst thing you can imagine. And you cannot celebrate that. Because you have certain structure of mind, and reserve belief that how good it should be. So you do not know how to celebrate. A bodhisattva knows how to celebrate. I understand. Okay. Yeah, that is what celebration means. You allow things. The depression becomes the source of that celebration. When you talk about allowing and obstructing,

[67:26]

I think, on a practical level, I think, how does that manifest in my body? For instance, if some sort of sadness comes up in my body, my muscles may change in order to grasp on to a certain experience of joy. Or perhaps I keep smiling. I'm always smiling, smiling, smiling, until my face is always kind of smiling. And so my body doesn't have the capacity to experience that sadness fully, because of a physical state of my body. Or with breath, for instance, my breath may want to change with that sadness, but for some reason I have found a way unconsciously or consciously to stop that. So is it possible for us to work not only with meditation, but on a practical relative body level with trying to, say, let go of a certain pattern that we have in our muscles

[68:29]

or a certain pattern that we have in breathing in order to allow a certain movement to take place? Like the sadness you talked about, for instance, or the depression. How to let go of the body's tension, you mean? Yeah, or a certain way. I notice I have certain ways of responding to different emotions which distance me from those emotions. And I actually use my body to do that. For instance, holding my chest up all the time, always holding up my chest, always holding up my chest, so that I am always having this false feeling of strength or pride. And when something comes up through me, I'm not able to experience that fully because of what's happening in my body. I'm not sure if this is more of a question. Yes, yes, yes. So is there a way of working not only with meditation, but with, say, trying to shift in our bodies

[69:33]

to allow these different states to take place? I think for that, primarily the greatest medicine will be meditation. And then also every action you do, it will affect you because it's the experience of your many past actions, all those different actions which you have created. And those actions, the way I put it, comes to that grasping mind which even unconsciously, everything is so set up, habituated so strongly, that even you try to get rid of that, you can't. You get back to the same place. And, you know, like some people feel like fear in their body or breathing problems, they all are manifestation fundamentally of the mind. They all come out of that mental illness. And mental illness depends how strong it is.

[70:38]

If it's tremendously strong, that appearance will be very gross. You will fear very strongly. Your fear will be very strong. But if the mental illness becomes less and less, you will notice that very problem on your body and the breathing becomes less and less. So primarily everything is the mind, so I cannot see any better technique than meditation, especially the meditation which, you know, from the Dzogchen and Mahamudra state where it's a tremendous healing. And also on your body level, I guess you can... all your actions, you know, your body, speech and mind will take the whole place. So naturally I would say, you know, to commit oneself into certain stages because even you have heard a great teaching, even you know the Dzogchen nature, even you know Mahamudra nature,

[71:39]

but that does not mean that even you have the presence of certain degree of understanding, does not mean you are cut through that barrier because you will see the world phenomena next to you. Why do you see that? That's the question. Even you have that presence, you see it because you are not in the presence of present moment. You are living in the future. And that future, even you try to break it through, it's not easy. So there comes and you are able to experience. So flesh of an enlightened experience, once in a while, is a flesh. It's called flesh. And if you can have that for five minutes, that will be different. Almost that total, your breathing problem, your whole bodily problem will be totally disappeared. Just able to be for five minutes. But it is very difficult. As I put today, you know,

[72:40]

when you watch television, just look at that. They are living constantly in the future, that's the whole problem comes. Their mind is rushing, you know, always trying to figure out the next thing. And then even we get something, then again we worry for the next thing. So constantly there is a speed of reaction which is set in, that's constantly working in a cycle way. So I would say to create better karma, the karma, our pains are definitely experience of our karma. And of course we don't get stuck in a karma, we have to be able to cut through that chain. So your whole process of your life will depend, yes. But meditation would help tremendously. And when that thing happens, when that thing happens, maybe it's better just see if you allow that to happen.

[73:40]

You never allow yourself to happen that, resist it. You allow that to happen, and just totally, completely allow. Just get to the lowest of the lowest. And let it happen. Sometimes when you sleep at night, there's a certain spirit, they come and press you, push you. They hold to your neck, and they grab you from here, and they push you, almost like you have a sinking experience at this stage. You go so deep, sinking inside. And now you have a resistance at this stage. A Christian may think, or Jesus Christ, a Buddhist may think Buddha. Those are low kinds of refuge. But if you be in the presence of your awareness, if you trust in your, at that time if you have meditation,

[74:43]

you will trust in yourself, you become the lowest of lowest, there's nothing to lose. The spirit may come inside, as I said, into the empty room, and look and go, there is nothing to steal there. Because they have nothing for you, you have no fear to lose anything. And then it will turn into nourishment. You will experience tremendous blissfulness out of that circumstance. But our problem is we are so much resisting all the time. And it's very natural for a dualistic mind to go there. And now the point of this, we have to change, we have to cut through that. And if you allow, it will, it will make a big change, I think. Especially those physical problems are basically, some of them are coming from the degenerated nerves,

[75:45]

energy, vital fluids, which in the tantra, when we come to the tantra path, it will explain, you know, the functions of the psychic force, so energy, and these are all in the Vajrayana teaching. While in the sutra, it does not talk about psychic force, energy, and then the structure of, these words are not at all in the sutra teaching, at all. Those words are only energy, the way it functions, and the elements are mostly the teaching of Vajrayana. But, by having a presence of meditation like that, you will solve a great deal of those things. And if you're doing some yidam practice, the practice of energy, then you will transmute those energy. You could. And of course, the mind itself is the source of the energy, it can change. So our main thing is,

[76:48]

we have a very big misunderstanding, a fear of not allowing, of rejecting. That is a very big misunderstanding, I think. And when you do not, when you cut to that, and you become the lowest of lowest, and you know, you just completely, you know, allow that, and just digest that, that's become the source of the happiness. When Milarepa saw the demonic force in his cave, and he started to do the rightful mantras, you know, try to dispel them, and then she started to sing a song. She said, If your struggle is endless, I'm not the only one, there is more. She started giving teaching, and Milarepa realized, you see, and then he realized his, Marpa's teaching, you know, and then,

[77:49]

and then the whole things become the source of tremendous wisdom energy. There's all this, all those circumstances are transmitted into the people. And you have to work through that. That is something. Resistance is not good. Okay. So then now let's recite a little bit of Vajrasattva mantra. Vajrasattva mantra

[79:30]

Vajrasattva mantra Vajrasattva mantra Vajrasattva mantra

[81:00]

Vajrasattva mantra Thank you. So now please think, you know, don't forget, just first hearing teaching, second analyzing, third meditation, view, meditation, and action. Three things go together. Okay.

[81:21]

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