Great to be back in California. So I want to talk about Dogen and the worldview of Zen and the Lotus Sutra. And as usual, I have too much to talk about, so I'll see how much I get to. So Dogen is the 13th century Japanese Zen monk who went to China and brought back the lineage that we practice in here. and translated a number of his books, but this time, a number of his writings, but this time I got a chance to talk about him. And this book is focused on the particular story, central story, the crucial story of the Lotus Sutra, which is arguably the most important scripture in East Asia and certainly in Japanese Buddhism. And Dogen uses this story, which I'll tell you, to express his worldview of the earth and space itself and time as living spiritual bodhisattvic agents.

[01:18]

So, I'll just say a little bit about the importance of Lotus Sutra to Dogen that maybe is not surprising to people who study here We mentioned it in our meal chant and thanks to Dogen who introduced it into the Chinese meal chant and I know that Michael has taught from it and Linda Ruth and probably other people here, other teachers here. But actually for a lot of Americans and for scholars of Japanese Buddhism it's unusual to hear that the Lotus Sutra is so important for Dogen. people think of Zen as, well, we think of Zen in various ways. I think particularly in the West we might think of Zen as this kind of philosophy or this nice therapeutic kind of calming, kind of spiritual exercise or this psychological and is very rational.

[02:20]

Well, we could say that that's all true but the Zen of Dogen, and Suzuki Roshi also talked about Dogen, so I have a section on his lectures at Tassajara on the Lotus Sutra. Suzuki Roshi lectured on the Lotus Sutra at Tassajara, and thanks to Bill Redican and Brian Phibes, who some of you remember, those have been transcribed. Anyway, Dogen spoke extremely highly of the Lotus Sutra. throughout his entire career, from early on to the very end. And I'll just mention one poem he wrote towards the end of his life at Eheji, the mountain monastery he set up in northern Japan. This is from one of the 15 verses on dwelling in the mountains. He said, how delightful, mountain dwelling so solitary and tranquil. Because of this, I always read the Lotus Blossom Sutra.

[03:21]

with wholehearted vigor under trees. What is there to love or hate? How enviable sound of evening rains in deep autumn." So he had this very strong relationship to the Lotus Sutra even though of course he also introduced to Japan the Chinese Kongon or Koan literature, all of the Zen teaching stories which he was a great master of, but he also kept talking about the Lotus Sutra. And in the book I focus on his comments about the central story in the Lotus Sutra. It's chapters 15 and 16 and short version in the first half of the sutra. The Buddha Shakyamuni keeps asking his disciples and bodhisattvas in his assembly, who will Take care of this Lotus Sutra teaching. Who will take care of the Lotus teaching in the distant future evil age after I'm gone? And he keeps asking for volunteers to do this.

[04:25]

And so he talks about this future evil age of preemptive wars and global climate change and occupations and oil companies gone amok and stuff. No, he doesn't mention those things. But actually, anybody reading the Lotus Sutra, ever since the Lotus Sutra became popular in China and early Chinese Buddhism, might imagine this time as the time he's talking about. And certainly, during Dogen's time, it was also a terrible time of warfare. And there were corpses in the street because of civil wars and famines and so forth. So anyway, the Buddha keeps asking for that and at some point a bunch of bodhisattvas have come from a distant galaxy to hear the Lotus Sutra being preached and actually they come whenever the Lotus Sutra is being preached, maybe some of them are here. They say, OK, we'll do this. We'll keep alive the Lotus teaching in the distant future evil age after you're gone.

[05:29]

And then the Buddha says, well, actually, you don't need to do that. And he points to the ground and from underneath the from the open space under the earth, spring forth. thousands and thousands and thousands of great ancient Bodhisattvas and many of them with retinues of other thousands of great ancient Bodhisattvas and they emerge and they make homage to Buddha and they're obviously ready to take care of all the suffering beings. So this is the first part of the story and then Buddha's regular disciples say, wait a second, who are those guys? Where did they come from? Who taught them? And the Buddha said, oh, I'm their teacher. And Maitreya, supposedly the next future Buddha, says, well, wait a second. We know that you left the palace 40 years ago and wandered around and finally were awakened. And you're in your final teachings and getting ready to pass away. You couldn't have been their teacher. They're very ancient.

[06:31]

And that's like saying a 25-year-old is the father of a 100-year-old. And then there's the disclosure Buddha reveals that actually He only seems to pass away into nirvana, but really he's been around since he awakened practicing and helping beings for a very, very, very, very, very long time. It's an unimaginably long time, and he will continue to be here for twice that long. But because some people, some of you maybe might think if Suzuki Roshi was here, you wouldn't have to practice because here's Suzuki Roshi. So the Buddha pretends to pass into nirvana for the sake of those who would not practice unless they thought he was there to take care of it for them. So that's the basic story. And it's a crucial story in the Lotus Sutra. It divides the two halves of the sutra according to the scholars, the cause or practice side and the fruit of practice side.

[07:32]

It's right in the middle of the sutra. It's also a kind of marker for the shift that happens in Buddhist history from the idea of many, many lifetimes of practice, thousands of lifetimes of practice before one can be a Buddha, to the other side, which is more Japanese Buddhism, of just realizing the truth of Buddha now. So it's important in lots of ways, the story. So Dogen uses this story particularly to show his own view of reality, of the earth itself, of space, of time, as mutually beneficial bodhisattvic agents helping us in our practice. So again, this idea is It's impossible for us to get our heads around from a rational perspective.

[08:38]

It's not part of a Newtonian objective kind of worldview. Even though physics has gone beyond that, still, we think of the world as a collection of things. Usually, this is our ordinary, everyday perspective. I think it's important for us to hear that the Zen perspective is much deeper and wider than that. So Dogen talks about this kind of thing going back to very, very early in one of his first writings called Bendowa or talk on wholehearted practice of the way or wholehearted engagement of the way. One of his very first writings, there's a section called the self-fulfillment Samadhi which is chanted here sometimes? Yes. And I translated this in a book with Shohaku Okamura called The Wholehearted Way, which I believe is also available in the bookstore. And in this writing, Dogen says that even when even one person sits upright in meditation, quote, displaying the Buddha mudra with one's whole body and mind,

[09:50]

then everything in the entire dharma world becomes Buddha mudra and all space in the universe completely awakens, completely becomes enlightenment. And when I first encountered that years ago and then again translating it with Shohaku, it just kind of blew me away. What does it mean that space becomes enlightenment, the sky awakens? even though I'd heard Jimi Hendrix say, excuse me while I kiss the sky. But what does Dogen mean by this? It's, you know, this is his opening teaching in a way, and it's just this tremendous koan. He also says in the same writing that he talks about it in terms of earth, grasses and trees, fences and walls, tiles and pebbles, all things in the dharma realm in ten directions and the whole phenomenal universe, carry out Buddha work. But the Buddha work is not just something that we are responsible for and that we can take on, but actually it's something that is part of the features of the landscape of the world, the dynamic aspect of the world.

[11:08]

And he says also that the meditator and these particular elements of the world who are intimately and imperceptibly assist each other. So again, this is a very different way of thinking than we usually have. What does this mean? So I want to just insert something here that one of the aspects of working with the Lotus Sutra with its very colorful parables and with Dogen who turns and twists images is to understand and respect the importance to Buddhist practice and teaching of fantasy and imagination and vision and dreams. So you know there is a way of thinking of Zen as very clear and reasonable and

[12:10]

see how it works for you, and that's part of it too. But in all of Mahayana Buddhism, so maybe I should, for those of you who are, how many are here for the first time this morning? Okay, well, a few. So the bodhisattvas I've been talking about, bodhisattvas are enlightening beings who are dedicated to universal awakening, to helping everyone awaken, because they realize that nothing is separate and that we can't be fully enlightened if if people down the street are suffering. Everyone is included in this practice. This is kind of basic to this teaching. The Bodhisattva ideal is the idea of Mahayana Buddhism, it's called, which is the greater vehicle. It means literally it's the Buddhism of North Asia, Tibet, China, Mongolia, Japan, Korea, Vietnam too. These bodhisattvas and this Mahayana Buddhism, these sutras, these scriptures, often are filled with amazing visions of the activities of bodhisattvas.

[13:21]

And it may seem very fantastic, and they are actually. Even George Lucas hasn't been able to figure out how to get them into special effects. Just a couple of quotes about this, because it's part of the background for thinking about and looking at, and hearing, and tasting, and enjoying this material. A scholar, current scholar, George Tanabe says, visions are central to the East Asian Buddhist experience, but little has been done by way of research of them. Mahayana Buddhism is, among many things it can be, a tradition of the mind's faculty for producing images in both waking life and sleep. A tradition, that is, of fantasy, producing visions and dreams. which were interpreted by the dreamers for their own meanings and which can be, to add a modern aspect, read by us for their feelings. It will be possible to gain a better understanding of Mahayana Buddhism as a vehicle not only of ideas and institutions but of human emotion as well, only when studies of the fantastic end of the spectrum become much more available.

[14:31]

So the point of Buddhist teaching for us is that this is a practice and teaching for human beings with emotions, with dreams, and as we sit doing this practice of facing ourselves on the wall and being upright in the middle of that, naturally our mind kind of opens a little bit or we have access to a wider range of reality. Anyway, this argues for using your imagination in practice. And of course we can see that as we look at all the images if you walk around just the first floor of San Francisco Zen Center and see all the wonderful images of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and all the wonderful art. This is part of this tradition of awakening practice. In terms of this, just in terms of Dogen, Heejin Kim, whose wonderful book, A.H.

[15:33]

Dogen, Mystical Realist, is still the best introduction to Dogen, says, Dogen was a religious thinker, not merely or even primarily a philosopher. Dogen's most philosophic moments were permeated by his practical religious concern against the background of which his philosophic activities stand out most clearly in their truest significance. What Dogen presents to us is not a well-defined, well-knit philosophical system, but rather a loose nexus of exquisite mythopoetic imaginings and profound philosophic visions. I like saying that, a loose nexus of exquisite mythopoetic imaginings. Anyway, Dogen is famous for being very playful in his turning around images, his turning around stories and sutras, playing with the images, making something very provocative with them. And we could actually say about all of Zen teaching that it's more about images and poetry and metaphor than there are branches of Buddhist teaching that are very logical and precise and philosophic.

[16:43]

And those are helpful too. But particularly Zen is about poetry and metaphor and image. So I want to go back to how it is that Dogen uses the story from the Lotus Sutra to show the vitality and dynamism of the earth and space and maybe I'll get to time a little bit. So I'll start with a Dharma Hall discourse he wrote in 1241 in Ehekoraku, which Shōhaku and I translated as Dogen's extensive record. I think that's also in the bookstore. Dogen speaks poetically of the spiritual fertility of the earth when all beings abide in their dharma positions with Buddha's enduring presence.

[17:51]

So he starts by quoting Shakyamuni Buddha, talking about how he actually is present for this very, very long time in the world. and he quotes a line from that chapter since I attained Buddhahood I always remain here expounding Dharma expounding the teaching expounding reality and then Dogen says all Dharmas dwell in their Dharma positions forms in the world are always present wild geese return to the north woods Orioles appear in early spring. Not having attained suchness, already suchness is attained. Already having attained suchness, how is it? After a pause, Dogen said, in the third month of spring, fruits are full on the Bodhi tree.

[18:59]

One night the blossom opens and the world is fragrant. So we actually know that one of Dogen's main disciples, his name was Tetsugikai, who became the third abbot of his temple, Eheiji, and was the teacher of Keizan, who was sort of the second founder of Soto Zen. Tetsugikai had a great awakening hearing Dogen say that. his great awakening first initial awakening was hearing Dogen say in the third month of spring fruits are full on the Bodhi tree the tree of Buddha's awakening one night the blossom opens and the world is fragrant so the fertility of the earth itself is the point here it and it was fertile in terms of Tetsugikai, but also just this is what it means that the Buddha is always remaining here expounding Dharma.

[20:05]

So Dogen uses the story of the Buddha's continuing presence as an inspiration and encouragement to his students and to us to continue our practice and to see the fruits bursting forth in the third month of spring. So I have to say where I live now in Chicago, spring means a lot more, having been through sub-zero temperatures. When spring happens, it's really amazing. Here, spring is wonderful too. But anyway, this fertility of the earth, springing forth, is one of the ways in which Dogen uses this story. So when he talks about Earth, often he talks about it in terms of space too, the Earth and the whole, the Earth that we say in the ten directions, the ten directions being North, South, West, East, directions in between and up and down, anyway, this is just a way of saying everywhere, but he talks about the Earth itself supporting and

[21:15]

supporting our practice, supporting awakening, bursting forth with lotuses and other blossoms. And he talks about that in terms of space. So one of the important things about how he sees space and time is that space, we'll start with space, it's not some external container. So we might think of space or time as the space of San Francisco or the space of the Bay Area. We also think of space as a kind of emptiness or open space, outer space, or the space between me and Blanche is space. But there's actually space between my ears and between my head and the cushion. Space is also the things. It's not just empty space. So there's an important pun here, and I'll see if I can do this, that the character, the Chinese character for space, ku, also means the sky, and it also means emptiness.

[22:31]

And sometimes you chant here that form is exactly emptiness, emptiness is exactly form. It's the same Chinese character that's used, clearly used for space by Dogen, but also has this meaning of emptiness. First, a story about space and how space is not just empty space. This is a story about two Zen masters, older and younger Dharma brothers, and the older one, they're sitting talking, and the older one says, do you know how to grasp space? And the younger one said, yes, I do. And the older one says, how do you grasp it? Zhizhong, his name was, stroked the air with his hand. And the older one said, you don't know how to grasp space. And the younger one said, how do you grasp it, older brother? And this other one grabbed the younger one's nose and pulled.

[23:33]

And actually, according to the Chinese reading, it could even be that he stuck his finger in his nostril and pulled. Anyway, the younger one said, ah, you're killing me. You tried to pull my nose off. and the Ottawa said, you can grasp it now. So space is not the absence of things. Space is us. So again, it's not some external container. There's a famous teaching about time by Dogen, this message called Being Time, where he talks about time as being. and our responsibility for time. Time is not something external or separate from us, but time is our activity, our awareness, our inhale and exhale. And the same is true for space. And Dogen doesn't talk about it exactly the same way, but it's clearly, actually his teaching about space is very helpful in terms of understanding what he means about time.

[24:34]

There's an essay, and again, Duggan plays with language so much, it's very tricky, but there's an essay in one of his great writings called Shobogenza, which means true, dharma, I, treasury, and this essay is called Kuge, which could be translated as flowers of space. But it also, again, it's the same ku, it might be read as flowers in the sky, or flowers of emptiness, or even the flowering of space, or the flowering of emptiness. You can't really translate it any one of those ways and get all of it. But he talks about, he's talking about this phrase, flowers in the sky or flowers in space, which is usually a kind of negative quality. So he quotes the Buddha from the Sarangama Sutra saying, It is like a person who has clouded eyes seeing flowers in space. If the sickness of clouded eyes is cured, flowers vanish in space.

[25:40]

And this character, this compound, flowers in space, is also just a common word for cataracts. So this is a very standard Buddhist image that reality and awakening is available, but because of our own obstructions, because of our own grasping and desires and confusion because of cataracts in front of our eyes, because of our obstruction to seeing reality, we don't recognize it. We don't recognize awakening. We don't recognize enlightenment. We don't see the light. OK, in this essay, Dogen turns that around completely, as he often does with these images for delusion, to show how flowers of space is actually where the Buddhas function. Just a little bit of what Dogen says here, there are flowers in space of which the world honored one speaks. Yet people of small knowledge and small experience do not know of the colors, the brightness, the petals, and the flowers of the flowers in space.

[26:47]

And they can scarcely even hear the words flowers in space. And actually this whole essay might be related directly to the Lotus Sutra. So it's the character for flower that's used in the Japanese name for the Lotus Sutra, the Dharma Flower Sutra. So he could be talking about the Lotus Sutra in space. It could be read that way too. But we'll put that aside for now. In non-Buddhism, they do not even know, much less understand, this talk of flowers in space. only the buddhas and the ancestors know the blooming and the falling of flowers in space and flowers on the ground so the space and earth are not separate only they know the blooming and falling of flowers in the world only the buddhas know that flowers in space flowers on the ground and flowers in the world are sutras this is the standard for learning the state of buddha because flowers in space are the vehicle upon which the buddha ancestors ride the Buddhist world and all the Buddha's teachings are just flowers in space.

[27:50]

So he completely turns around the usual way of seeing that as our obstructions and yet this is very much congruent with basic Buddhist teaching. We awaken right in the middle of the world of delusion through causes and conditions through the difficulties of our lives, each of us has somehow showed up here this morning. And the image of the lotus is that it grows out of the mud. So often, yeah, Tara over there is sitting on a lotus, often Buddhist images. And of course, Amida Buddha here is on a lotus. So you can see that Buddhas sit or stand on lotuses, and the lotuses grow out of the mud. And there's also a phrase from the Rupesh record that Dogen uses a few times in Dogen's extensive record, the more mud, the bigger the Buddha.

[28:54]

So that's kind of encouraging. And we can see it as just the more, I mean, literally the more clay, the bigger statue you have. these flowers in space are the place where we see through the flowers in space and where we see the beauty of the flowers in space. So in our delusion is where we practice and this is completely goes with the something in the second chapter of the Lotus Sutra which is which Darwin quotes even more than he quotes chapters 15 and 16 that the single great cause for Buddhas appearing in the world is to help other beings enter into the path of awakening. And so without deluded beings, there'd be no point and we wouldn't need Zen Center or Buddhas or anything. If there was no suffering and no war, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and stop the war, but still, even if that happened, there'd still be suffering and delusion, I'm pretty sure.

[29:59]

So we have job security here. So in this essay about Flowers of Space, Duggan plays with this as he does with a lot of these images. And again, a lot of Zen teaching is about metaphors and images and how they show us something deeper than what could be said just matter-of-factly. In one phrase, Duggan says, Because scholars do not know flowers in space, they do not know a person who has clouded eyes, do not see a person who has clouded eyes, do not meet a person who has clouded eyes, and do not become a person who has clouded eyes. Through meeting a person who has clouded eyes, we should know flowers in space and should see flowers in space. When we have seen flowers in space, we can also see flowers vanish in space. meeting in Gendo Koan Dogen says that deluded people have delusions about enlightenment enlightened people are enlightened about their delusions we have to meet our obstructions and sit with our obstructions and become familiar with them and so in terms of his discussions of the references to the sutra Dogen encourages

[31:25]

his students and Zen students everywhere and everyone to see how the underground bodhisattvas are always ready. This image is about the awakening beings underneath your seat right now. And the Buddha enduring his presence is through our practice. So Dogen plays with these images in lots of different ways, but one way is that Buddha's continuing lifespan is in you, as you sit and uprightly face reality. So just a couple examples of that. So one of the major significance of this long lifespan is that Buddha is still continuing his beneficial practice and teaching.

[32:42]

Dogen follows, this is in an essay called The Tathagata's Whole Body, he follows a reference to the essence of the sutra and reality itself as Buddha's long lifespan with a quotation from the Lotus Sutra. for countless eons Shakyamuni has practiced difficult and painful practices accumulating merits and sought the way of the Bodhisattva and thus even though he is now a Buddha he still practices diligently so historically we know that the Buddha after his awakening after his great awakening didn't stop practicing in fact that was the beginning of Buddhism and he continued sitting doing meditation every day so this idea of continuing practice as the way in which Buddha's life continues, our continuing practice. Another example of talking about the underground bodhisattvas who spring out from the earth, Dōgen compares that to

[33:51]

all of the spiritual seekers wandering around, showing up at Saturday morning talks here and there, and how this relates to these underground bodhisattvas. He says, to tread the path of the ancient... those searching for insight and guidance of beginning practitioners who are seeking to tread the path of the ancient saints. And he says, at this time when people are looking for spiritual practice, as so many are in these days, in visiting teachers and seeking the truth, there are mountains to climb and oceans to cross. Well, I kind of cheated. I flew here from Chicago. While we are seeking a guiding teacher or hoping to find a good spiritual friend, one comes down from the heavens or springs out from the earth so not only are we like the bodhisattvas coming out of the earth but when we are ready teachers appear so this idea of both the buddha continuing and the bodhisattvas being right under our seat that our attention our own taking on responsibility for practice

[35:11]

allows practice to continue and allows the teaching to continue. Just one more image which I like that conveys this a little bit. This is from another essay where he also refers to this story in the Lotus Sutra and the moment, the time of the of the Buddhas, he says, although this moment is distant from the sages, so it's 2,500 years ago that Buddha historically was alive, you have encountered the transforming guidance of the spreading sky that can still be heard. The spreading sky itself, space itself includes, somehow it is informed with transforming guidance and we can still hear it. So I just want to say a little bit about time. And then we can talk more in the discussion period and I'll sign books if anyone wants but we'll have discussion too and I look forward to your questions.

[36:20]

Time also is not just an external container. So Dogen talks about this a lot in terms of this image of the Buddhas, the enduring Buddha, the Buddha who endures through time, this inconceivable lifespan. And he also talks about it in this essay I mentioned, Being Time. He says that we should question time. We shouldn't just take it for granted. So in some ways, of course, there's 10, 15, 11 o'clock, 11, 15, at some point, they'll ring the bell for lunch because the clock says it's time. But that's just one aspect of time, as Tolkien says. It's actually moving in many different ways. from present to future, from present to present, from future to past. We can remember, some of you may remember, previous times of being here in this room. I think of the many such long, long ago. Anyway, and then some of us may imagine future times when we'll be in this room.

[37:28]

Time itself moves in many directions. Time itself is available to help us. But also, the one thing I wanted to mention is again that we have some responsibility for time. Time is not just some external container. A little bit of what Duggan says about time. He says, when beings fully express themselves right now, that's time. The sharp vital quick of dharmas dwelling in their dharma positions is itself being time. Beings cannot help but fully express their deepest truth right now. One cannot avoid being time. Even the being time, Dogen says, of a partial exhaustive penetration is an exhaustive penetration of a partial being time. So in some ways this is profoundly consoling. You may our judging mind can get into thinking, oh, that was a good period of Zazen, or that was a bad period of Zazen, or I did that well or not.

[38:38]

We can get into that kind of thinking. Our mind does that. And yet, even a lousy period of Zazen is completely a lousy period of Zazen. And actually, there's no such thing. That's just our mind playing tricks. Dogen emphasizes that individual beings, this doesn't mean that individual beings do not have any responsibility for being time, through our own effort and expression. So, Steve Hine comments, Dogen's emphasis on the temporal unity of practice and realization. We're not practicing waiting for some enlightenment in the future. This is our expression of enlightenment right now. But this also seems to suggest that the presencing of being time itself is made possible by virtue of the selfless here and now activity which realizes itself as primal time.

[39:42]

No aspect or realm of temporal existence is independent of the individual's exertive effort. It works both ways. There is this earth and space and time supporting us and yet we allow them to express awakening for us and for all beings. So again, this is kind of strange. How can we think of the sky or space itself or time itself as supporting us? How can we see our responsibility for time, for time's motions? How can we take on showing up and paying attention and continuing to breathe? and paying attention again without being caught up in some in the value judgments or if we get caught up in those that's just more time flowing how can we see the reality itself the fabric of reality as a Bodhisattva as a Buddha as support for our practice so I'm not sure how helpful it is for you to hear this maybe it's not maybe just to think about you know

[41:11]

taking care of being calm and doing your best and trying to be helpful in the world. That's maybe enough. But anyway, where this practice comes from is this amazing, mind-boggling worldview. And this is what Dogen saw. And this isn't just Dogen. He expresses it in a very, very dynamic and lively way. But he's reflecting the worldview of medieval Japanese Buddhism. This is how the world was then. This is how people saw reality in some way. This is how Buddhist teaching was then. So I think one of the difficulties for us here in the 21st century, practicing in the world as lay people, even those of us who are ordained or in some sense out in the world, how do we take care of our awareness First of all, learning this uprightness through this spiritual practice of zazen, of sitting upright.

[42:21]

But then how do we express that in this world today? The world certainly needs it. And space and time and the earth itself are asking us to show up, to be present, to pay attention, to look at what's going on, to respond with responsibility. And at the same time, in some way that is not how we usually think about things. Space and time and the Earth itself are supporting us. So I have an afterword to the book where I talk a little bit about some of the implications of this radical worldview of Dogen for areas, for current areas, and Arrhenius for further study of this. So I have a little section on Dogen and string theory. And how a lot of what this worldview is saying, you know, of course it's totally different from, it's not scientific, but still there's a lot of resonances with this modern cutting-edge physics, which I don't pretend to understand.

[43:27]

But anyway, there's that. And just of course environmental awareness, how we are aware of the Earth itself and the environment. And also for engaged ethics, for societal ethics, there are a lot of implications and for activist practice. So even though this worldview and this material about the Lotus Sutra and the underground bodhisattvas may seem exotic, I believe it has something to offer us. So thank you all very much. It's great to be back in California and I look forward to your questions and discussion.

[44:11]

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