You can say, that person's full of ego, and you can see that that person's somebody that's got rigid, whereas a person that has very little ego, they're more alone, they're more humble. Humility would be another thing of sincerity, with other ways of looking at it, it's recognizing the truth, it's not a caricature of it, that it's somebody that's grovelling and it's down, it's acknowledging the truth, and that's sincerity. Okay, so about the authority, I think the problem, it should be easier than in the past, but in the past, you had authority from the church, by faith, but today, by dialogue, by internal religious dialogue, and with the continuing dialogue, make our experiences of the divine or human self much more open, but yet also much more possible to be agreed

[01:01]

upon, or disagreed upon, so that you can continue the dialogue. Now, the question you raised about redemption, I think for the Confucianism, it's not a real question, because the continuing realization of the human intrinsic goodness itself constitutes redemption, there's no external redemption in that sense. In that sense, probably it's more like the Buddhists, rather than the Christians. Justin? I'm talking about including two papers on Confucianism in this meeting. After, of course, the committee has discussed the theme and the invitation, but after making the invitation, I somehow begin to question myself, why did I include Confucianism? And some people told me, Confucianism, it's not monastic, there's no Confucian monks,

[02:02]

so why do we include? I've been always in doubt so far, but today, after this discussion, I think I feel more peaceful. For two reasons. One is, at least in China and East Asia, China, Korea, Japan, I guess these three traditions are so intermingled, they just penetrate one another, Confucianism, Buddhism, Daoism, and then Confucianism, new Confucianism, so they intermingle. Second, more important reason, if we say that there's no Confucian monks, I admit, but what they insist is the unity of the sacred and the secular. The unity of the sacred and the secular. You have to cultivate yourself where you live.

[03:03]

You cultivate yourself where you live. And you cultivate yourself, you receive enlightenment, in order to respond to a commitment, to give yourself a commitment. That's perfectly, exactly what our lay monastic friends, we have opulence. We have opulence living in the world. They are inspired by the monastic ideal, but they continue to live in the world. There's a lay monastic people, we call them opulence. I think Confucianism should be included, especially in view of that. Pat, what do you think? I agree 100%. Okay, we have three responses, by David, and then Norman, and then... I just have a little bit of a paragraph in the keynote. Many years ago, I read a book by Herman Finaret called The Secular As Sacred. It's a very small book, and it roughly has been so benedicted, and it must be a classic.

[04:09]

I hope it is still around. I would really recommend that. Yeah, this is, to me, a very important point, and I think it was the most astonishing thing about Sister Dowell's paper. The idea that the equation of Benedict with the Confucian secular way is very astonishing, and it makes a lot of sense, the idea that monasticism has a kind of training in civility. And the metaphysical depths of meditation practice as being manifested through conduct in the way that the brothers treat one another and so on. This is really quite an astonishing point, and I think a very essential one. And I think what Fr. Joseph said about oblates and about the tremendous interest that there is now in the rule and in monasticism, and it's a little different, I think, from what Merton, as I understand his view of the monk's life as a kind of critique of society in a

[05:14]

marginalized, separate society. This is a little different point, which I think is very, very important, and maybe in our time now, it becomes a whole other purpose and sense of monasticism. This interests me, because in our Benedict's Dharma book, when we all got together at the authors and had a discussion, this is one of the main points that came out of our discussion with Fr. David as he was there. The use of Benedict's rule in particular in monastic life for the renewal of society. And I think this is what I saw as the main point of your paper. I think it's very, very astonishing and a very important point for all of us to consider now. So that's why it really, in the Confucianist side, brings that all out. Gives it a way to look at that. So that's really terrific. Just to follow, since you pointed out that Ren was a key concept, and so did Fr. Chung, when I learned it, the way I remember it is the character on the left is the character for a person. Right. And the one on that is a number two. And so it's two people.

[06:18]

How do two people relate? That civility is your point. This has been the basis for that. Yeah. What's the translation? This is Ren means that humaneness. He translated it co-humanity, benevolence, humaneness. Goodness. Goodness. Thank you. Nicholas? On the point of Confucian monks, the Chinese Benedictine sisters in Taiwan are consciously creating a Confucian Benedictine community that identify themselves as Confucian Benedictines. Confucian Benedictines. The congregation of men, Chinese men, in Taiwan, the chivalry dominate. They're known to be more Confucian than Christian. This is in honor of Roman Catholic priests. Confucian. Confucian. We're talking about formation here. Formation as a Confucian.

[07:20]

Formation in Buddhism. Formation in Christianity. Do we have a comment here? What's that? I don't know that word. Ren. Ren. Okay. And the two things equal two. That's two. Yeah. The number two. Number two. What does that say? Human. Person two. The first book of the Bible for Jews and Christians is Genesis, but in Hebrew it's Beresheet. And the letter Beth is the equivalent of the number two. So the first letter of the Bible is really maybe symbolic of the essence of relationship is the most important thing. The whole teaching of the Bible, spiritually. Goodness co-humanity. That's that passage in Mentius that is Ren, to be human.

[08:23]

You pronounce it the same. To be human, Ren, is Ren. I mean, there's a phrase in Mentius that says humanity is goodness. Just a brief comment here in regard to a question that came up earlier this afternoon about what does the image of God consist? And I know there's one permanuity of the image of God in Genesis that's saying it consists in the fact that humans were created male and female. So it's in the dual, that relational element of human existence that God's image is. If I might, just a quick follow-up on his thing about killing, getting rid of the ego. In the Buddhist tradition, when we cultivate, you're taught to take your ego as a little child and you as a parent. And you teach and transform and bring it across. And the image when you enter monastic life is you don't kill off or destroy your previous self,

[09:25]

but rather take that as a ground that begins to form the new. In other words, it's a continuum rather than a cutting off. So it's just a difference in orientation and a transformation rather than a severing. I think it's a matter of semantics. When you get to the end point, like the rule is written for beginners. And so, Benedict's rule. And so, when you go beyond that, that's what I'm talking about. That's the goal. I'm looking at the goal. Right. But I was thinking in terms of language for beginners, it's a whole different feeling inside. If you feel like you're transforming yourself as opposed to you should be cutting off your ego. It leads to some mistakes in spiritual path. Sure, we're cutting off from it. Yes, the truth is always good to know. You know, this paper is ingenious and it's a lot of work.

[10:26]

And, you know, it's unbelievable. And to deal with it in just one hour, it really deserves a lot more. And I hope to continue a dialogue with you on it. One thing that was new to me was this idea of sincerity. And I'd like to ask what you would think and the group. You know, when you describe sincerity from a Confucian point of view, it's really counter-cultural. Being good. Being really good. Notice the humor, like, who was it? Seinfeld or somebody like that? It's just the opposite of Seinfeld, right? Seinfeld. Seinfeld. Sorry, I made that up. Something like that. So, is it that revolutionary? And are we good? Yeah, we are good. A daily newspaper will evidence a lot of counter-evidence. But, yeah, I think we are good. I think what's revolutionary in our society

[11:28]

is self-cultivation, of which sincerity is absolutely key to it. I just read a book the other day called The Twilight of American Culture by Morris Bergen. And it's a pretty bleak outlook on our society. What he proposes is what he calls the monastic option. Because he says it's only the monastic option. I don't think he necessarily means institutionalized monasticism, but in the monastic option, the outlaws, the marginals, and so forth, perhaps there will be the inner work that leads to what he calls sanity. I mean, he just puts sanity as something we need. We have time for one more comment or question, that's all. Well, I just wanted to, when you were talking about sincerity, Suzuki Roshi, the teacher at the Tom and Zen Center, used to use the word sincerity all the time. And I don't know if he was referring to this concept

[12:32]

of constitutionalism, but he well might have been. And he seemed to be using it in a way that was very not what we usually mean by the word. And he seemed to be meaning, to practice with sincerity meant to be fully involved in everything that you were doing. In other words, a total single-hearted thing, with a single heart involved in what you were doing. Which is very different from the English use of that word. And it may be that that kind of meaning underlies the term that you were trying to use at all. I don't think you said exactly that. Right. The third quotation on the handout I gave you from Gilbert Coilin is sufficient. You know, purity of heart is the goal of the monk. It is purity of intention, that single-mindedness. It is also deep serenity of mind. So it's two-faced. Thank you so very much. Thank you.

[13:27]

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