Good morning, everyone. Welcome. So today is an auspicious, another auspicious day for us. This afternoon, we will be doing a Jukai lay ordination ceremony, precept ceremony for three people who are all here. Wade and David Ray. So this is one of the important ceremonies in our tradition, receiving precepts. So I want to talk about the ceremony and some of the things that are involved in it. And also this is a landmark Jukai ceremony for ancient dragon. I will be performing it together with Nizan Eric Shutt, one of my daughter's successors, who is the teacher of one of the three students receiving precepts. the precepts. So I want to talk about the ceremony and what it means, and we'll have some discussion.

[01:09]

The ceremony is scheduled for two o'clock this afternoon. Everybody is welcome. You can come back online or in person. So without going into all of the procedures for the ceremony, in terms of the content, we begin with invoking, enchanting the names of Buddha. So it's homage to all Buddhas in the Ten Directions, homage to the complete Dharma in the Ten Directions, homage to every Sangha in the Ten Directions, homage to our first teacher, Shakyamuni Buddha, who lived in, what's now East India, 2,500 years ago, homage to Ehe Dogen Zenji, homage to our session of Bodhisattvas and Ancestors. So this is in many ways, the ceremony about the lineage of Bodhisattva's ancestors, that we are continuing here in this time and place.

[02:12]

And Amish to Edo Benzenji, who brought this tradition from China to Japan, and actually founded this collection of 16 precepts. And then Amish to Shogakushin Udayo Shog, Suzuki Roshi, who brought this from Japan to California. In the lifetime of some of us, and we are honored to have one of Sukhiroshi's disciples, Sengyu, here with us online. And then Amish, now that we say now that their presence and compassion sustain us, so we call on the ancestors as part of the ceremony. And then we chant the names of Buddhas, so that there are various So there are various Buddhas. Shakyamuni Buddha is kind of our Buddha for this world system. But there are many Buddhas. So we chat to Virochana Buddha, the pure Dharmakaya, the Buddha who represents the whole phenomenal universe and all other universes and metaverses throughout space and time, and who is sometimes depicted, embodied in Japan as the great Buddha there.

[03:30]

large statues of Buddha, like Todaiji Inara, the seer, the air is eight inches long. It was a beautiful huge statue. Anyway, Vajrakshana is the Buddha that is all of us and everything, everything is this Buddha. This is a way of seeing all of reality as awakened. This is very important to us. And we chant some other names, Shakyamuni Buddha, Maitreya Buddha, predicted to be a future birth and next future Buddha. The Lotus of the Lotus Dharma, the Lotus Sutra, which is kind of basic to all of Japanese Buddhism, started with Zen and Uchi-Ren in Kurilan schools. But before that, in the earlier schools, Anyway, Samatha-Bhaja Bodhisattva, great activity, great practice, very important.

[04:32]

We've been talking about and reciting the Avatamsaka, the Flat-Eleven Sutra, for which she is one of the most prominent bodhisattvas. Then all honored ones, this refers to the arhats, the personally awakened ones. great examples to us all. Then bodhisattvas and then great beings. And maha-prashna-karamita, great perfection of wisdom. That is the emptiness and openness and boundlessness of all things. So I'm just going through the ceremony and talking about the different elements of the ceremony. The next part is renunciation. So I'll just read the text for the ceremony. Walking the path of bodhisattvas is accomplished through the spirit and actuality of renunciation.

[05:35]

I think in the West we think of Zen practice so much as renunciation, but yes, we're gone against the grain of our consumerist culture. We're taking this wonderful, beautiful Chicago Sunday morning, or wherever you are in the world, California and New Mexico. Anyway, here we are, and we are renouncing the possibility of walking around in beautiful Sunday morning to be here together, celebrating Oregon. So it continues, all the Buddha ancestors of the Bodhisattva precept lineage have practiced and are still practicing renunciation of all attentions, letting go of attentions, not being caught by attentions.

[06:36]

Of course, as karmic beings, we all have attentions, and things we like, but we don't They're obsessed, you're caught by them. This is the spirit of renunciation. As it goes on, renunciation is an unsurpassable way of harmonizing body and mind with the Buddha way. Giving up attachments, one is free, one is prudent. And then in ceremony, we cut some hair, some heads of people taking the ceremony. as a symbol of that. Then we give the 16 Bodhisattva precepts in our tradition. First we give in the ceremony before

[07:43]

Now, if you're presenting and naming the 16 precepts, we've presented to all of the people receiving them three things. Serene name cards. So they are all going to be receiving new names. Bodhisattva names. Sazen names. Names coming from the tradition. means chosen by . And then they received the lineage papers. So in some ways, I'm gonna talk about the precepts next, but we tend to think of the ceremony in terms of these precepts as kinds of ethical guidelines. And that's part of it, but maybe more fundamentally and certainly in Japanese letters and historically and today.

[08:45]

Connecting with Buddha is the heart of this. Taking refuge in Buddha, but also receiving lineage, lineage cards, lineage papers, which start with Shakyamuni Buddha all the way up at the top and then go through the names of the formals and ancestors. And this is historical and semi-historical. We don't know accurately all the names in India, but there was somebody in each generation who passed this along. So to see these precepts is to collect to a particular lineage, from Bathurst's and Hiroshi back to from the end back to the Sixth Ancestor, back to Bodhidharma, back to Shakyamuni. And at the bottom of the lineage papers, there's a red line going back up.

[09:49]

So that each person receiving these precepts is Shakyamuni Buddha in some important different sense. And also with the lineage papers, we have a circle of women ancestors who were historically not honored in the patriarchal systems of India, China, Japan, and early in the United States. But there were many women teachers and noble practitioners all through history where we have the circle of their names, which is also part of the Middle East papers that all of these people were seeing today. And then the third part is a rock suit. So, Bo, can you show people the rock suit just as an example? This is something that is sewn by each of these people receiving these presets.

[10:57]

And Bo gets to this a sewing teacher who's helped many, many people to do the sewing and the latest going to be taking this on for us, Prentice and the Hooghetsu. So this Roxy was worn as a kind of miniature, it's a miniature of this priest, Kesa Ro, that Hooghetsu and Aishin and Yuzan and I are wearing. And on the back of it is inscribed the new name of each person in Chinese characters, but we'll give the English meaning. And then there's a saying, and then there's my name's on the left side. So they will be wearing these raksas starting today at any Buddhist event. But they will receive them for the first time in ceremony. And there's a special chant that they will do, a great deal of liberation from the spirit of merit, wrapping ourselves in Buddha's teaching of free all living beings.

[12:11]

And then they will chant that in Japanese first. Then the next part of the ceremony is something that we do all the time. and service, the beginning of our services here, and we'll have a service after this call and discussion and announcements. All my ancient twisted karma from beginning was greed, hate, and delusion, born through body, speech, and mind are now fully allowed. This is a wonderful chance to just acknowledge that we each do have ancient twisted karma from, well, in East Asian Buddhist view for many lifetimes, but we can just see it as culturally from many beings, or genetically from all of our genetic ancestors, but also our cultural ancestors and our Buddha ancestors.

[13:17]

All our ancient twisted karma. And so how do we practice with this karma? Well, we acknowledge it. Sometimes some pieces of our tendencies and habits drop away. That happens. But some of them are very deeply rooted. And the point of acknowledging our karma is to not be caught by it, to help us become familiar and intimate with our personal and collective karma, so that it doesn't control us. We're not obsessed by it. We don't need to react to things based on it. And then in the ceremony, there's a part that's sort of esoteric that Nilsson will perform today, the Abhisheka Incentive to Water Purification. So to purify the space, to purify all of the people who are here for the ceremony.

[14:21]

Then we get to taking refuge in priests. And there's 16 of them in our tradition. So I want to say something more about them. The first three are so important. It's the same as the three refuges. I take refuge in Buddha, I take refuge in Dharma. I take refuge in Sangha. So, you know, everybody present at these ceremonies is in some ways also taking these precepts. This is a collective ceremony. These people will formally, publicly take on this tradition, these precepts, but we are all part of it. So, to take refuge is to return home. We're deepest homes. And in some ways, just I take refuge in Buddha includes all of it, the whole ceremony. You could just say I take refuge in Buddha, and that would be the whole ceremony.

[15:25]

But we kind of elaborate. Taking refuge in Buddha means acknowledging, appreciating, feeling gratitude, Returning to the poem of Buddha, the Buddha that is each of us, on our seat now, here in the now wonderful Lincoln Square Center, or with our friends online. To return to Buddha. Buddha just means the awakened one. To return to awakeness. To return to welcomes, which some politicians these days are attacking. I don't know if they think that they're attacking Buddhists or anything. Yeah, but we take refuge in this. We take refuge in being awake. It doesn't mean we don't rest and take naps and sleep at night.

[16:28]

It means that we're present with all beings and all aspects of the beings on our seat now. That's fourth. To return home Buddha as the perfect teacher. And then we have taken refuge in Dharma and Sama. Those are not separate from Buddha. One version of what Buddha said when he passed away was, let the Dharma be your teacher. Take refuge in Dharma. So We have a huge body of scriptures, commentaries, stories, and teachings that we call, Dharma means teachings. It also means truth or reality.

[17:30]

And there's teachings about reality. How do we take refuge in reality? How do we take refuge in what's really happening? not in misinformation or whatever, but in what's happening in front of us, what we see and hear, and how we do that together. And the togetherness is very important. That's the third refuge. We take refuge in Sangha. Sangha means community, but it's the jewel of community. It's the community in the sense that community supports us, inspires us, and that we in Terran also support and help We're going to still help each other as practitioners. And, you know, there's a particular Sangha, like Ancient Dragon Zen Gate here in Chicago, but there's also the Sangha of all Sanghas. So we're connected with many particular Sanghas, like San Francisco Zen Center, where many of us have practiced and where our lineage comes from.

[18:41]

But there's many Sanghas in the United States, in Japan, in China, in India, Southeast Asia, Europe, and Africa. So the community of humans, the community of not just humans, but all beings, to take care of this planet, this world, maybe not even just this planet, but all worlds connected to us, So Sangha, we turn to Sangha, to community and support each other and help each other. And this is very deep. Thich Nhat Hanh said that maybe in this century, Sangha is the rule. So how do we support each other and work together?

[19:43]

So those are the first three of the 16 precepts. The system of 16 was put together by Dogan in 13th century Japan, although it all goes back earlier. But the next three, to embrace and sustain right conduct, to do good, to be helpful, to embrace and sustain all good, to not cause harm. And then one of the 16 that I find most important personally, I vow to embrace and sustain all beings. How do we see all beings as involved in this work, this spirit of work, this work of awakening through ourselves and all beings? All beings, all beings. So not just people in Chicago, not just Americans, not just white people or Hispanic people or black people or Islamic people or whatever.

[21:02]

All people, but not just all human beings. We embrace and sustain the trees and the rivers and the lakes. Raise and sustain all the beautiful bird song that we were hearing through Zaza. So that birds singing all around us to celebrate this event today. And all the other animals. And flowers and plants. Then we get to the 10 pure precepts of the 10 grave precepts. And, um, These sound a little bit like the Ten Commandments or something like that, but they're not. They're not, thou shalt not. They're just descriptions of what it means to live, you know, like the Sacrament of Buddha does not kill.

[22:04]

And they all have a positive implication, too. So the Sacrament of Buddha supports life and life means. The Sacrament of Buddha does not take what is not given. So sometimes chastity is not stealing, but it's also about receiving what is given. Receiving gifts. Not taking what's not given. Number three, a disciple of Buddha does not misuse sexuality. So in early monastic Buddhism, this was celibacy, but For our practice as lay people and lay priests also, in our tradition, how do we not misuse sexuality? How do we not deceive others? How do we not be respectful to our own and other beings' sexuality and gender?

[23:08]

Disciplehood really does not lie. So that It also implies supporting truth. By the disciple of Buddha does not intoxicate mind or body itself or others. This, I think this is a very important one in our time. Many people in our culture are addicted to alcohol or drugs or many other things. How do we support awareness rather than intoxication? You know, the Dharma itself, Zen practice, Buddhism, can be intoxicating at times. But we also just approach it as something that we appreciate and that we share. So how to not intoxicate body or mind and self or others.

[24:11]

And we have a recovery group that meets online Tuesday evenings. from a Buddhist perspective, but similar to various other companies. So we help each other to acknowledge and find ways to not be caught by intoxication. Disciple of Buddha does not speak of false of others. It's the sixth one. And this is kind of subtle, I think. It's not that we should never talk about difficulties. in the world, in our society, in our lives. But we don't indulge in name-calling or hate speech or finding fault. We can talk about the issues, the problems that we see around us. In fact, it's important to do so. But how do we do so without All of us, from whatever opinion, you know, there are politicians in the world now who seem to be promoting a policy of cruelty.

[25:30]

Others are promoting caring. And we can oppose cruelty without name calling. So to not find not speak of faults in others at the same time that we do address problems and suffering in the world. The next one is sort of related. A disciple of Buddha does not praise self at the expense of others. So this is, you know, especially for people who are taking refuge in precepts, it's possible for people who are practicing Sincerely, it's possible to think, oh, great, I'm practicing. I've received the precepts. Wow. We're doing this together with all beings. So this can be very subtle, how we, you know, think of ourselves as somehow, I don't know what, more, better, whatever, in other words.

[26:38]

But we're all just together, ultimately, really, really we are. The next verse, the disciple of Buddha is not possessive of anything. And some traditions, the disciple of Buddha is not possessive of anything, even the Dharma. So whatever we have understood of spirituality, of truth, of caring, of community, of awakeness, connecting to reality, We don't hold on to that. It's not personal. It's not just yours. We do this together. Really, really deeply. It's something that couldn't happen in our collective space and time. So that's invoking the Bodhisattva ancestors is to see that this is something that has been, this tradition and this ceremony and these practices have been

[27:39]

been sustained and maintained generation after generation after generation from India to China to Japan, Korea, South Asia, California, now Chicago, and throughout the world. So we don't do this just for ourselves. The ninth of these precepts is one of the precepts that seems to be most lively for people. Disciple of Buddha does not harbor ill will. This is the precept about anger. So all of us, of course, at times, there are things we don't like, and we may get angry. We may feel anger. We may feel negative feelings. What's important is to not Hard work and will to not hold on to anger, to not make it a hard work where then we develop paid speech and all the terrible things that happen when there's prejudice against people just because of what country they're in or what the color of their skin is or what religion they are.

[29:00]

We don't hard work and will. And personally, when we're having trouble with someone, family member, a co-worker, you may feel some negativity. But how do we not hold on to that? How do we not make that a harbor? This is very subtle. So when those negative feelings and anger arises, the practice, and I want to talk more about this, in the near future. The practice is not to hold on to that or not to make a big deal of that, but to actually look at what is going on, to really use that as an opportunity to examine our own heart lines and to see what can we do to help in a particular situation.

[30:01]

whether it's a societal situation or a personal situation, with somebody, a coworker, for example, who is giving us a hard time, giving other people around them a hard time. How do we use this awareness Helpfully, and it's not easy. It's not, you know, sometimes it takes patience and spiritual means and attention to the situation. But again, the point is, the precept is to not harbor, to not hold on to ill will. Finally, a disciple of Buddha does not disparage the three treasures that Buddha taught himself. So that's... We could do that in various subtle ways. You know, this is really true or whatever. This person in our community is just being nasty. Instead of seeing the community as something that is a living organism and the whole world as a collective living organism.

[31:09]

So I think we tend to There's more to the ceremony that will happen this afternoon in terms of acknowledging the ceremony itself and the people involved, not just the three people receiving the precepts and not just Nyozan and I are performing the ceremony, but all of us, many of us who have helped to make this possible. So this is For our particular summit for Ancient Dragon's Etiquette, this is really a wonderful major event. Some of you remember our temple on Irving Park Road that we occupied, went there for 15 years. Maybe most of you, many of you were there

[32:14]

And it's a wonderful space. Now we have this wonderful Lincoln space. It's smaller, but it's allowing us to perform the ceremony. And we've just, in the last couple months, the practice period, two months, which time since 2018, we did a three-day session, the first multi-day, sitting since 2019. So the whole world has suffered this pandemic and COVID is still happening. It's not that it's finished, but it's abated enough so that we are now resuming the practice. This is really wonderful. And part of that is doing the ceremony today, this afternoon. And as some of you know, we're also, with all of this that is happening, we're also on the verge of purchasing a building not so far from here, down on Lincoln Avenue, that will be a long-term home for our son.

[33:59]

There's a lot of work to do and it's not set completely yet, but almost. So, It's an interesting rich time. And the ceremony today encourages us to connect with the richness of time. With Suzuki Roshi in the 60s and early 70s in San Francisco, with Dogen and his successors, 13th century Japan, with coming from China to Japan, coming from India to China. Anyway, and with all the women ancestors also who were part of helping all of that. So Sangha is a strange creature. Sangha is alive and Sangha extends through space.

[35:06]

So many beings have been part of this Sangha either online or at Earth Park Road or here. And also many beings are connecting with us in time. And each one of us has a karmic sangha. All of the people we've ever known are part of what's happening on their seed right now. So This is a very rich, wonderful time. And of course, all the people, not just all the people you've known, your great grandmothers, your fourth grade teachers, your, you know, anyone. So today's a day of celebration. Today is a day to enjoy.

[36:07]

And we will activate the ceremony this afternoon. Everyone is welcome, 2 o'clock, here in this room or online. Maybe that's enough for me to say. Questions about any part of the ceremony, about anything about the precepts, about the lineage, comments, responses, questions? One line over here and a wonderful expression. Please feel free. Yes, hi. Is this your first time here?

[37:09]

Great. Welcome. That's very auspicious for us. What is your name? Rob. Hi, Rob. Can you talk a little more about Samba? Yeah. Samba is very important. You know, through the history, and I was talking about India and Samba, Japan, there are great, great teachers in China who never had more than eight people in the Samba. So it's not about how many. But Sangha is about the richness of our lives. There are a lot of people, there are people here I see online who have practiced for a long time on their own and then came to practice with an organized group. And it helps. It's possible for people to sit at home by themselves and do the practice, but to do it together with others is part of the spirit of this.

[38:11]

So, again, it's not just the people in this particular organization. We have, I think, about 12 or 15 people in our chakra who are chaplains. Maybe one or two people here today who take care of people who are ill or dying in hospitals in Wall Street, for example. So this is part of the spirit of Samba is that we are supporting each other to do this practice, but also, and this Samba particularly, I really am so grateful to be part of Ancient Dragons and Get Samba because there are many people here who are doing many wonderful Activities in the world, teaching grade school, teaching graduate school, working with computers, being a therapist, many things, being chaplains and social workers, martial arts teachers, all kinds of helpful things in the world.

[39:25]

And that emanates out of taking refuge in Samhita. to be together with others doing this practice for the sake of awakening for all beings. And this takes time sometimes. So is this your first time coming to any organized Buddhist group? No, okay, so you've been involved with other song lists. But you're welcome here. And actually, one of the things I really deeply appreciate about this dogma is that many people here have practiced in other Buddhist or non-Buddhist traditions. We have an Episcopal minister who has been on our board, who practiced with the Zen teacher while he was the Episcopal minister of the Southwest. For example, and we have people here who practice Rinzai Zen. We have people here who practice Tibetan Buddhism. It's having this width of and breadth of background enriches all of us.

[40:29]

So I hope you will, so today's kind of a special day. I'd rather hope you will come again and check the website schedule and join us. So part of Saga is just being open and trying to be welcome. Sometimes it's challenging in our world, but having you welcome Anyone, any person, all beings. How do we welcome the birds sitting all around us as well? So that's a little bit about Psalm. Do you have a follow-up question? Damon online has a question or comment. Thank you, Tiger. The precepts that I understand that you offer in your tradition are kind of the traditional kind of short version. And, uh, in the community I've been practicing in lately is the, um, here locally are the, uh,

[41:36]

so-called Plum Village practicing in the tradition of Thich Nhat Hanh, they have something called five mindfulness trainings that we recite once a month that are, and when you take these, it's sort of their version of the five precepts, and they're kind of really put a lot of flesh on the original precepts. For example, the third precept regarding sexual conduct, The original precept is kind of skimpy. And so they sort of added on quite a bit that gives a little bit more guidance and and flesh fleshes out the original precept. Could you talk a little bit about why they would do that? Well, first of all, I very much respect Thich Nhat Hanh's order of inner being and his precepts of inner being. And actually, for all the people who take the way of the nation to tie with me, I give them copies of the order of inner being, their precepts, and use them as commentaries.

[42:49]

I would not say that our 16 precepts are a skimpy version of longer precepts. There are the earlier precepts, the Vinaya precepts from the early Buddhist tradition, which is the monastic precepts, the monastic and yanda precepts. And as in the early, well, Theravada and other traditions that emphasized a practice of personal liberation. So, and that's a very noble practice of personally liberating, awakening, and developing oneself. And, you know, in the Lotus Sutra, that's included as part of the Bodhisattva work because it inspires some people. So the point is that all of these practices we do together. And, you know, we've talked about these research more, but one of the things I mentioned and want to stress is it's not just about following some ethical guidelines, although that is part of it, but it is this deep ceremonial connection, personal connection to

[44:20]

Everything, to all of this, this space and time, to all of it. So, yeah, I think each of these precepts one can speak about a lot, and I have done so. If you look on our website, on the podcast, type in any one of these precepts. precepts you may find that he ever talks about. Anyway, I appreciate your comments. And yes, I feel like I've practiced since I started personally practicing Buddhism. I would say fortunate enough to connect with the Japanese centers that priests back in New York, a long, long time ago. And so I've always been grounded in Soto Zen.

[45:23]

And at the same time, I've also partaken of practices of other traditions and appreciate them. So I think, as I was saying, we're informed by all of the different traditions of spirituality and awakening. So it's not about, you know, competing who's lineage is better or something. We're all part of this mahasamana awakening beings. So thank you very much for your presence. Other comments or questions about any part of this? Oh, hi. I've been thinking about, you know, precepts a little bit recently and wondering, I guess my question has to do with like, you know, how do you practice these without falling into like righteousness about them, you know, which is alienating to think to people.

[46:24]

It's like, know how do you practice awakening and then sort of have this also desire for others to awaken without pushing you know and without um trying to control other people's behavior because you i can see the benefit for example of like not speaking ill of other people or not gossiping about other people But, you know, I find myself in that situation sometimes where other people are, and you don't want to be like, you know, I'm a Zen Buddhist. I'm not cool with that happening right now. So, yeah, how not to like, well, yeah, so that's the question. How not to be too sort of righteous about them? Good. So there's one of the ten precepts is exactly about that. It's like a woman does not praise self at the expense of others. And you don't do it inwardly either. So, you know, we have various systems.

[47:24]

We have the eightfold path. We have the six or ten paramitas. The various, for Ramadharas, we have various huge numbers of teachings in Buddha Dharma, Buddha teachings. The paramitas, transcendent practices, are very helpful, I find, amongst all of them. And, you know, the practice of patience. So we may see somebody causing harm. We may see harm and cruelty happening in the world around us. And instead of just name-calling the people who are promoting that, how do we actually One of the, one of the privileges is later on skillful means, how do we practice skillful? This is a lifelong study and it means patients, which also can be translated as tolerance.

[48:27]

We all have shortcomings. We all have things we, you know, we all have limitations of what we could see and appreciate and enact. So Maybe some people, we might think that some people's shortcomings are much greater than ours, but it's really the same situation. How do we help? And so to try and argue with somebody to persuade them to be caring and helpful rather than cruel, you know, Based on their situation, they may not see it that way and may not be so skillful or helpful to try and get into that kind of discussion. So patience, tolerance is to pay attention. And our practice of awakening is to pay attention, to patience. Whatever has happened. And so if we see somebody causing harm, of course, if there's something physically you can do to intercede to stop that harm, you know, pulling somebody off in front of traffic or whatever, you know, we try and do that when we can.

[49:43]

But how do we really... physically study, the practice of skillful means is to really pay attention to our, not just to the situation out there with the people who we see doing harm, but to ourselves and our prejudices about things. And then how do we see something that might be helpful to say or do at some point? And we make mistakes. And it's important to make mistakes. We learn. But we make the effort to pay attention and then to be helpful. So, you know, what you're talking about is huge. It's, you know, a huge problem in our world today. And it's easy to take sides and to see these are the bad guys, but what led their, what was their common background that led them to that?

[50:49]

What are their fears and so forth? But that doesn't mean we say, oh yeah, go ahead and murder these people or deport these people or whatever. We try and act to be helpful. But it's always, you know, a subtle process. And again, so these ethical considerations are very important. But also, again, the ceremony is about just, okay, we are expressing. Yes, Bo. In light of that, what Bo is bringing up is I think Buddhist practice encourages us to stay engaged. And that's a big part of it. Like how do we stay engaged? The precepts kind of help give us guidelines on how to stay engaged. But like in just practical terms, ways, also with skillful means, to still be part of that conversation where everyone might be trash-talking somebody, but then maybe skillfully bring up a positive interaction you might have had with that person instead of trying to add fuel to the fire or completely check out, well, I don't do this, so I'm going to pretend I'm not even here.

[52:09]

And that's where the skillful means comes in and tighten, like you mentioned, like maybe patience and kind speech and Compassion, like how can I find something positive to say here that doesn't make me point fingers at everyone who's negative? And that, of course, takes a lifetime, I think, to develop skills like that. And sometimes you never do come from what you're saying. Yeah, it's a process. It's a lifelong process. But also sometimes, and I'll call on you in a second, Paul, But sometimes there's nothing to do. Sometimes, so it might look like somebody's checking out, but they actually might be paying close attention and waiting for an opportunity to do something positive. Which would be active listening. Active listening, yes, exactly, good.

[53:10]

You know, I'm all about Samantabhadra, so I'm always coming at it from that angle. Me too. You're all about what? Samantabhadra, a bodhisattva of great activity. So a plug for those who don't know about the different bodhisattvas, there's a book I did called Faces of Compassion. And Samantabhadra has his own chapter. And other bodhisattvas have their own chapter. Yes, so, Jan, I'll call on you, but Paul, how does that end up for Sengi? Basically, in our tradition, the precepts are all about not mehi tu. not making it good and bad. So in the Zen tradition, there's no way to break the precepts. You cannot break the precepts because that would be making the good and the bad. But following the precepts creates a land in which Buddhas appear.

[54:16]

And if you want to have it, if you want to save all sentient beings, if you vow to save all sentient beings, which is what taking the precepts is about, then you were vowing to live in a land where Buddhists will appear. But that doesn't mean that... What's that? I didn't hear the last part. Could you say that again, please? You vowed to live in a land where Buddhists will appear. So that doesn't mean that there's a way that you can break the precept, that you can go against the precept. It's a unity. You cannot. They're all one. That is the basic of our teaching, as you know from the class we've been doing with Rev. Anyway, that was Suzuki Roshi's teaching. The only precept is not to make two. So that's the important understanding. So it's not like there's no good guys and no bad guys. There's no yes and no. But following the precepts allows Buddhists to appear in this world. Thank you.

[55:23]

Jen? I'm very troubled by Vietnam. You know, he was in Vietnam during the war and he saw terrible things. He saw his people being the police. I was talking to him and he is the Vietnamese by origin and so into the Vietnam war and really, um, had a lot of experiences that most of us would avoid and, uh, And it's really almost, it is truly amazing that he came through these experiences as he did and became a great teacher for the Western world. I have to say that. But the first thing that starts out is this is the practice of one who is wise.

[56:32]

And I think right away, well, that counts me out. You know, I'm not going to read this. And then this is how you find your friends. And then I think, well, my friends don't qualify here. And, you know, I'm just I'm just stopped by the first sentence of most of the things that Thich Nhat Hanh wrote. And I not that I have really studied it, but I find his approach, in spite of the admiration you have for what he's been through and how he turned out, he's a very, very difficult person for me. Well, thank you for that testimony. I enjoyed, I've done a couple of interviews longer practices for them. I've never been to Plum Village, but, and a friend of Thich Nhat Hanh's tradition wants to respond, but, you know, this is why Buddhism includes many, many teachings and many, many traditions.

[57:49]

And if Thich Nhat Hanh's tradition doesn't inspire you, it's fine. I'm glad you're here doing so today. There are, you know, This is the heart of skillful means, which we're just talking about, that the Bodhisattva of compassion, Kansai Avalokiteshvara, who we have images up here, she is about studying different beings and seeing the different contexts of how people respond to teaching. And so there are many different traditions, many different lineages, many different teachings, and some people will respond to some teachings or some traditions more fully than others. And that's because we're all different.

[58:51]

So skillful means is, if that's a tradition that doesn't appeal to you, fine. Don't worry about it. Just, you don't have to have a, you know, I've never heard, I've never heard you talk about this before. So obviously you're not, you don't have the vendetta against Thich Nhat Hanh teachings. But, you know, it doesn't appeal to you, fine. And, you know, I could get into the particulars of each of those sayings. I'm forgetting the one you said it starts out with. This is not practice of the norm. This is the something of one who is wise. Yeah, so that's the way of talking about Shakyamuni Buddha as the wise one. So taking refuge in Buddha is to take refuge in the awakened one who is wise. And all of the different permutations of that historically in the last 25, 30 years, you know, have different flavors. And that's exactly right.

[59:52]

That's, you know, so we can talk about emptiness, which a lot of people like, and we can talk about suchness, which other people like. There's, you know, two sides of the same coin. So, yeah, we don't have to, so the idea of Sangha and Mahasangha is just to respect the different traditions and that Something that don't appeal to you may be good for some other people. So you don't have to take this gospel. You know, compared to Christian gospels, what is it? I'm sorry, I'm not a Christian. Jesus taught for three years? Yeah, Buddha taught for like 40 years. So there's just all these different flavors of what the Buddha taught. So we can practice. So, you know, you should enjoy what is helpful to you.

[60:57]

So anything that's helpful, whether it's Buddhist or non-Buddhist or, you know, all the other teachings or practices or awarenesses in our world today, if it's helpful, great. So did you want to respond on behalf of Thich Nhat Hanh? And I, far from me to do so. But I just wanted to say that I'm grateful for our colleagues' forthrightness. I have to confess that there are times that such reactions well up in me as well. And that I think I'm going to take this opportunity to just kind of When they do well up again, just try to be observant, find out more about where they're coming from and take them as an opportunity for a teaching inside myself and so forth. So, again, thanks again to our colleague for talking about this.

[62:00]

Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for being grateful. So last, we're getting close to the end. Wait, please. Jan, I think you're more wise than maybe you give yourself credit for. Your comments always surprise me. And they always manage to teach me a little bit of Dharma in a way that I never would have expected. So thank you for that. And please be kind to yourself. Amen. Amen. So, Keisha, last one. I just wanted to say that I think that an attitude that's helpful when we think about how we hold and practice the precepts is humility because we can never practice the precepts perfectly. So when we think about how somebody else isn't practicing them or isn't practicing them the way that we might want them to, it maybe just helps to remember that

[63:00]

We are all doing this imperfectly with one mistake after another. And we're all connected, as you said, not two. We're all connected. So thank you all very much. You're all welcome to come to this ceremony this afternoon.

[63:20]

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