Good morning.
So this morning I'd like to speak about an old Zen song, one of our golden oldies.
It's called the Song of the Grass Hut or the Song of the Grass Roof Hermitage.
It's by an old Chinese Zen master in our lineage from the 8th century so it's more
than 1200 years old.
And there's a translation of it in a book I did a little while ago called Cultivating
the Empty Field.
And because back in the 700s they didn't have CDs or recording studios or any of that,
we don't know the melody anymore.
But here are the lyrics, I'll start off just by reading them.
Song of the Grass Hut.
I've built a grass hut where there's nothing of value.
After eating I relax and enjoy a nap.
When it was completed fresh weeds appeared.
Now it's been lived in, covered by weeds.
The person in the hut lives here calmly, not stuck to inside, outside, or in between.
Places worldly people live, he doesn't live.
Realms worldly people love, she doesn't love.
Though the hut is small it includes the entire world.
In ten feet square an old man illumines forms and their nature.
A Mahayana Bodhisattva trusts without doubt.
The middling or lowly can't help wondering, will this hut perish or not?
Perishable or not, the original master is present.
Not dwelling south or north, east or west.
Firmly based on steadiness it can't be surpassed.
A shining window below the green pines, jade palaces or vermilion towers can't compare
with it.
Just sitting with head covered, all things are at rest.
Thus this mountain monk doesn't understand at all.
Living here he no longer works to get free.
Who would proudly arrange seats trying to entice guests?
Turn around the light to shine within, then just return.
The vast inconceivable source can't be faced or turned away from.
Meet the ancestral teachers, be familiar with their instruction.
Bind grasses to build a hut and don't give up.
Let go of hundreds of years and relax completely.
Open your hands and walk, innocent.
Thousands of words, myriad interpretations are only to free you from obstructions.
If you want to know the undying person in the hut, don't separate from this skin bag
here and now.
So I want to say a little bit this morning about this song, the song of the grass hut.
So the person who wrote this, we say Sekito Kisen in the morning is his name in Japanese
and he's in our lineage in Chinese, Shito, Shichan, also wrote another poem that some
of you are familiar with.
In Japanese it's called Sando Kai.
It's in English harmonizing of difference and sameness, also known as merging of difference
and unity.
So in that poem, Sekito talks about the realm of difference, the realm of diversity, the
ordinary world out there, the conventional realm with all its distinctions.
And he talks about the realm of sameness, the realm of non-duality, the realm of unity,
which maybe we get a glimpse of when we just sit with all things at rest.
And one of the important lines in that poem is grasping at things is surely delusion,
but according with sameness is still not enlightenment.
So that poem is about the kind of the philosophical background of how we integrate our taste of
sameness, of unity, of emptiness, of wholeness with the usual, all the usual distinctions
and problems and various distinctions of the world.
So that poem is kind of the philosophical background, and I feel like the song of the
grass hut is about how to practice that.
This is Sekito's description of his practice.
How do we practice this harmonizing of sameness and difference?
So that harmonizing of difference and sameness has been chanted for a thousand years in morning
service and here too often at morning service in the Japanese monotone style of chanting
we have here.
As far as I know, the song of the grass hut hasn't been chanted ever in Chinese or Japanese
or English until last month in a monthly group I lead in Bolinas.
And these are important texts for us.
There's a new book coming out next year, I think, of Suzuki Roshi, our founder's lectures
on the harmonizing of difference and sameness.
And right now the practice period in the center is focusing on this text.
So I wanted to talk about this song of the grass hut and how do we actually practice this.
So just to start at the beginning, I've built a grass hut where there's nothing of value.
After eating, I relax and enjoy a nap.
So this is about simple everyday life.
This is about just relaxing, eating, sleeping, ordinary everyday stuff.
He says there's nothing of value because whatever we value is going to pass away, you know.
So there's nothing to value.
There's no thing to hold on to.
There's nothing, no valuables to possess, ultimately.
But because there's nothing of value, we could say what's
in the grass hut is worthless or we could just say it's priceless.
It can't be measured in dollars, can't be bought or sold.
So Sekito himself actually built a little grass hut like this,
a little hermitage on top of a rock near his monastery.
And his name means rock head or it could be translated as on the rock.
So these hermitages, you know, we could take it literally.
In fact, there was a tradition in China and Japan of building little hermitages
and retreating up to the mountains.
But what I feel this song is about is how do we create our own space for practice,
our own grass hut wherever we are.
So actually, Sekito may have had this little grass hut,
but he had many students also.
And this word that's translated as grass hut is a name for some monasteries
in China and Japan, some of them very large.
So the point is how do we find this space?
How do we build a grass hut for ourselves?
How do we build a space where we can carry out our own spiritual practice,
our own spiritual values, find our own deepest truth?
He says, when it was completed, fresh weeds appeared.
Now it's been lived in, covered by weeds.
So I myself relate this to the weeds of papers and books
that I have to sort through on my desk and floor periodically, covered in weeds.
The person in the hut lives here calmly, not stuck to inside, outside,
or in between.
Places worldly people live, he doesn't live.
Realms worldly people love, she doesn't love.
So this is an important point and kind of bitter in a way
and something we have to face when we build our grass hut,
that this whole spiritual practice and the grass hut or Green Gulch Farm
in some ways exists as a counter to the conventional world.
So spiritual community sangha is an alternative,
in some ways an example of something other than the usual way of doing things.
The places worldly people love and the realms worldly people love.
So spiritual community exists as some place we can come to on a Sunday morning
or sometimes to sit all day or sometimes people move here for a few months
or however long.
It exists as an alternative to the usual rat race distinctions of the world.
So this is the grass hut.
It's actually also the meaning of the shaved head that in our tradition
that we get it, we receive it, priest ordination.
It's kind of a counter fashion statement.
Countering the usual fashions of the world.
But I don't know anymore since Phil Jackson Roshi shaved Michael Jordan's head,
it seems to have lost some of its meaning, become fashionable.
Anyway, whether it's up in the mountains or whether you're working down on Market Street,
how do you build this space where there's nothing to value,
nothing to hold on to, where you can just be there, calmly present, living calmly?
How do you find your, build your own space for practice?
So Dogen says, there's Dogen who brought this tradition from China to Japan in the 13th century,
brought this lineage of grass huts and harmonizing difference and sameness.
He said, there's no Buddha Dharma in the mundane world.
But there's nothing mundane in the Buddha Dharma.
So we have to face the entire world.
And yet we sometimes see that it's not, there's not much out there that we,
we sometimes want to run to a grass hut, you know.
We want to come for some refuge to a place like Green Gulch.
And these days, one of Zen Center's biggest problems is that we can't,
we don't have enough spaces for the people who want to come and sit sessions
or do practice periods at our three practice places.
So many people are feeling that there is no Buddha Dharma in the mundane world.
Last night, I had the pleasure of hearing my favorite American Dharma poet,
Bob Dylan, down in Mountain View with Van Morrison for dessert.
It was great.
And, you know, there's this Dylan song where he says,
sometimes even the President of the United States must have to stand naked.
And in the same song, he says,
it's easy to see without looking too far that not much is really sacred.
So recently, you know, I think we're,
we've been deluged in our national media and national political discourse.
Seems to have forgotten about any real social problems and
whether you're tired of hearing about the President's sexual misconduct
or whether you're tired of Kenneth Starr's inquisitions about it,
it's, you know, we naturally want to retreat to some grass hut in the face of all that.
So Sekito says, though the hut is small, it includes the entire world.
In 10 feet square, an old man illumines forms and their nature.
So this is very important.
The hut is maybe small, but it includes the entire world.
And this 10 feet square is a reference to sutra about the great enlightened layman,
Vimalakirti, who was a student of the historical Buddha 500 B.C. in northern India.
And he had this little 10 foot square room.
And he managed to include into it many, many disciples and bodhisattvas,
great awakening beings and spirits.
So it's interesting that this idea of the grass hut became in China and Japan
kind of a model for many poets and literati and writers and meditators
to build some little space where they could go up in the mountains
and get away from all the troubles of the world.
But Vimalakirti, who had this original 10 foot square hut,
lived completely immersed in the world.
And yet he was more enlightened, wiser than all of the great monk disciples.
So I feel like he's a great example for us in our lay practice in America.
He insisted on not retreating from the world
and being right in the middle of the world.
So he would go to hang out in bars and hang out on the stock exchange
and spend time teaching and hang out with dancing girls.
He even was in the government.
Wherever he went, though, he would help awaken beings
and was considered the greatest of whoever was there in that worldly realm.
And yet he also had this grass hut.
So I think, again, even if you work in a cubicle downtown in a high rise,
how do you find the space to build a grass hut there?
This is the question that we have to face.
But do you know it includes the entire world?
So if you go to Tassajara, to the monastery,
to try and get away from the problems of the world,
you'll find that all the problems that you have will go with you.
And everything in the world is right there.
If you come and live at Green Gulch,
still the problems of the world are here.
And of course, they'll be there.
It's a refuge in the sense that there's some different attitude towards it.
But still, you can't run away from that.
And even right here this morning,
each of us includes many beings.
You can't really sit alone, even in your own little grass hut,
because whether you're alone or whether you're here,
each of us is an expression of parents, family, friends, children,
your sixth grade teacher,
your great-great-great-grandmother,
genetically as part of who you are now.
Somebody you passed on the street 10 years ago.
Whoever, everybody you've met,
every experience you've had is part of what we each are right now.
So though the hut is small, it includes the entire world.
So how do we build a hut?
How do we find a space to settle in
and be willing to face the entire world?
This is the practice that Sekheto is talking about.
So he says, a Mahayana Bodhisattva trusts without doubt.
So in Mahayana Buddhism,
the Mahayana Buddhism,
Bodhisattva, like Manjushri sitting on the altar there,
is a great heroic being,
dedicated to awakening everyone
and awakening together with everyone,
doing it together.
So Sekheto says that this Mahayana Bodhisattva
trusts without doubt.
The middling or lowly can't help wondering,
will this hut perish or not?
Perishable or not, the original master is present.
So we're all middling and lowly sometimes.
We all wonder, will our hut perish or not?
So someday, even this wonderful zendo that we're sitting in
will crumble to dust.
Hopefully not for a long time.
And thanks to the support of the wider Sangha of Zen Center,
it will be a very long time.
But someday, everything,
there will be no space here for us to sit together.
Maybe it'll be a long time off.
I lived in Japan next to a thousand-year-old temple.
Some of those buildings were newer than that.
But they were still very old.
But even those temples eventually will crumble.
Green Gulch and our practice places are very fragile.
We have to figure out now at Green Gulch
how to get enough water and how to have
a good enough septic system for the people
that live here to be here.
It's a complicated event, building a hut,
even if there's nothing of value.
So we can't help wondering sometime,
will this hut perish or not?
But Sekito says,
perishable or not, the original master is present.
So how many of you feel the original master?
Sitting in your own space at home or coming to sit here,
how do you feel the original master is present?
How do we find the original master?
How can we see her right here, right now?
Perishable or not, the original master is present.
Not dwelling south or north, east or west.
Firmly based on steadiness, it can't be surpassed.
A shining window below the green pines,
jade palaces over million towers can't compare with it.
So he's describing his grass hut,
and this phrase, a shining window below the green pines,
is a kind of conventional phrase for a monk's place of study.
So where is it that you find,
you can study your deepest self,
you can study your spiritual truth.
That place, perishable or not, is a great treasure.
It's priceless, there's nothing of value there,
but jade palaces over million towers cannot compare with it.
The song goes on.
Just sitting with head covered, all things are at rest.
Thus, this mountain monk doesn't understand at all.
So the practice we do here is sometimes called just sitting.
Meditating, facing the wall.
Upright.
Just sitting.
Observing thoughts and feelings coming and going.
Enjoying our breathing.
He says with head covered.
So this is an image of Bodhidharma,
the legendary founder of Chan or Zen in China,
who sat like this in a cave in northern China,
and the pictures of him show this kind of quilt over his head,
because it was cold.
But for all of us, just sitting with head covered,
all things are at rest.
And we can just sit here.
We can just sit here or in our grass hut at home, wherever,
and be present with the original master.
All the things of the world can finally just rest.
It's not that the problems go away,
but we have a space where we can just be there.
We don't have to do anything.
We don't have to fix anything.
We don't have to solve any problems.
Just head covered, all things are at rest.
Thus, this mountain monk doesn't understand at all.
That's my favorite line in the song.
In thusness, right here,
when we're just sitting with head covered,
this mountain monk doesn't understand at all.
So there's nothing to understand, you know?
There's no view or understanding to hold on to.
Nothing of value.
Just be here.
Just be free to be here.
So how do we find this space to be present,
calm, and caring,
without holding on to any understanding?
So maybe here at Green Gulch, close to Muir Beach,
we could say thus,
this ocean monk doesn't understand at all.
Anyway, whether you're in the mountains or in the city,
not to hold on to any understanding.
It doesn't mean we don't have understanding.
There's no understanding to hold on to, really.
And there's a line from a case
in the Blue Cliff Record collection
of old Zen teaching stories.
There's a commentary and there's a line that says,
he has his own mountain spirit realm.
So I think when we can just sit with head covered,
not understanding anything at all,
then we have our own mountain spirit realm.
This is what I feel this grass hut is about.
How do we find the space where we can settle
into our own mountain spirit realm,
our ocean spirit realm?
She has her own ocean spirit realm.
Living here, he no longer works to get free.
Who would proudly arrange seats trying to entice guests?
Well, of course, we do this every Sunday morning.
And you're all here.
But I think this is a reminder to us
that no matter how many people come here,
if it's the first time,
whether it's a large number or a small number,
it's not the point.
No longer work to get free,
just to be present and calm
in our sitting in our grass hut.
How do we build this grass hut?
Turn around the light to shine within,
then just return.
The vast inconceivable source
can't be faced or turned away from.
So I feel like our whole practice is in this one sentence.
Turn around the light to shine within,
then just return.
So when we find our space in this grass hut,
what we do as we're sitting is to turn the light within.
Dogen says to take the backwards step
that turns your light inwardly to illuminate the self.
So just to be present,
to turn the light within,
and to forget about all of that business
out there in the world for a little while.
And then see what that light is that we turn on ourself.
See the original master.
How do you find the original master?
How do you settle in this calm space
where everything is included
and yet all things are at rest?
Turn around the light to shine within,
then just return.
So it's not enough to find your own calmness.
It's not enough to find your own center.
We have to then just return.
So whether you come,
whether you sit for 40 minutes in the morning
or come and live at Green Gulch for three months
or three years or Tassajara or a place like that,
come to a meditation retreat for a day or a week,
we still, we go back out.
We just return to the everyday,
ordinary things of the world.
So this grass hut is not something that,
it's not a place to hide.
It includes the entire world.
And the point of our sitting
is that then we just return to the world.
And in some way, we're open to the world.
So Green Gulch doesn't shut the gate and say,
we're doing this serious meditation here,
don't come in.
Sometimes we do that for a week,
but still we have the Sunday mornings
and Tassajara has its summer season.
And each of us, when we do our meditation,
we go back out and go to our jobs
and be with our family.
And so we turn around the light to shine within,
then just return.
We have this rhythm to our practice.
So just finding the space of calmness,
of unity, of emptiness is not enough.
That's only half.
So there's this rhythm we have.
We each have our own rhythm
and it's kind of a natural rhythm, you know.
And maybe it's different for each of us.
But it includes both sides.
It includes just sitting with all things at rest
in our grass hut.
And that includes the entire world
and we just return.
So Sekito says,
meet the ancestral teachers,
be familiar with their instructions.
Buying grasses to build a hut
and don't give up.
This don't give up is important, you know.
We have to stick to it.
It's not something that, you know,
we find that space of calmness.
We get a glimpse of the original master
and then that's it, you know,
and we can forget about it.
It's something we have to just keep doing.
This is about sustainability.
How do we continue being in the midst of the world
and yet finding this space in our grass hut
where we can not give up?
Meet the ancestral teachers
and be familiar with their instructions.
So there's a line in Sekito's other poem
in the Harmony of Difference and Sameness.
He says,
hearing the words, understand the meaning.
Don't set up standards of your own.
So fortunately for us,
we do have these ancestral teachers.
So don't set up standards of your own
doesn't mean there aren't any standards.
We have guidance, fortunately.
We have the Buddhas and the great teachers
of all spiritual traditions, you know.
Wherever we can find that help
to see our original master,
those are the ancestral teachers.
So we have to meet the ancestral teachers,
be familiar with their instructions,
buying grasses to build a hut
and don't give up.
Let go of hundreds of years
and relax completely.
Open your hands and walk innocent.
So it's kind of ironic, isn't it?
Not giving up has to do with relaxing completely.
So this relax completely,
you know, it's kind of nice, you know.
All we have to do is relax completely.
It's easier to say, isn't it?
I remember something that happened in this room.
Well, it was the earlier version of this room
because the older Gringold Zendo grass hut
did crumple and we had to rebuild.
This new one, it didn't crumble,
we had to take it down
because of earthquake safety and so forth.
But in the old version of this Zendo,
I was sitting,
it's about 20 years ago,
I was sitting back in the second row back there
and there was a visiting teacher
almost 20 years ago,
a Japanese Rinzai Zen master.
And he was sitting right in this corner seat here
and I was sitting a little back in the second row
and I think Baker Roshi was giving a talk.
And I remember seeing this guy
and something about the way he was sitting there,
this old Japanese Zen master,
he was relaxed completely.
I mean, there was not a muscle that was holding on
and you could just see,
or I could just see it.
It just felt to me like
he was just there.
And I was kind of,
I could see his side and his back
but he was just completely relaxed.
So I don't know if this had to do with his grass hut
or if he had a really good masseuse.
Anyway,
but he was really just sitting there
and not a single muscle holding on anywhere.
It was just amazing.
I mean, it wasn't amazing to him,
he was just there.
So this is about just letting go.
Relax completely but don't give up.
So this is also about not ignoring the world.
We relax completely but the entire world is there.
We have to,
we can't turn away from all of the troubles
and problems of the world.
And yet somehow we can have this space
where the original master is present
where we can relax completely.
So thousands of words,
myriad interpretations
are only to free you from obstructions.
So there are libraries full of Buddhist teachings,
you know,
and other great spiritual teachings
and songs like this
and lots of texts
and what he's saying in the song
is that all of them,
all of the interpretations and words
and all of these things I've been babbling about
are only to free you from obstruction.
If you want to know the undying person in the hut,
don't separate from this skin bag here and now.
So this is the final words,
instructions of this song.
It's just about being present.
All Buddhist teachings are just to
let us let go of
our conditioning,
our obstructions,
all the places we're holding on,
all the tense muscles, you know,
and just relax completely.
Just to be present.
To be with this unconditioned, unborn,
true self,
this deepest self.
And it means
don't separate from this skin bag here and now.
This body and mind.
This bag of bones.
Just to truly be our deepest self
is the point.
So we don't have to become somebody else, you know.
It's really good news.
We don't have to, you know,
reach some great state of mental
discipline or, you know,
some exalted meditative space.
Just to really be present
with this skin bag here and now.
Then the original master is present.
So as I
said, we don't know the melody,
the tunes to the Song of the Grass Hut,
you know,
how they sang it,
how Sekito sang it back then.
We just have the words.
But he does say to meet the ancestral teachers
and be familiar with their instructions.
So
he says,
I wanted to honor today
one of
our ancestral songwriters
whose 100th birthday was yesterday.
George Gershwin.
So I thought we should close with a Gershwin song.
this is going to be a little complicated,
so bear with me.
You know, I don't,
my teacher, Reb Anderson,
likes to close his talks with songs,
but I don't have a good voice like Reb, you know.
And I don't even have as good a voice as Bob Dylan.
Actually, he was in really good voice last night.
But anyway,
so I have
a little,
I'm going to get some help from my friends.
We have a chorus of,
an ad hoc chorus of
Zen
George Gershwin singers
who are going to help us sing this song.
So I wanted to read the lyrics first.
And then we'll sing it.
So this is a song,
this song I picked that somehow felt to me like it
said something about this grass hut
is
called I Got Rhythm.
Do any of you know it?
So I hope that
I hope that you will sing along with us.
But I wanted to read the lyrics first.
And then we have a special guest appearance also.
So the opening I really like.
It goes,
Days can be sunny,
but never a sigh.
Don't need what money can buy.
Birds in the trees sing their day full of song.
Why shouldn't we sing along?
I'm chipper all the day,
happy with my lot.
How do I get that way?
Look at what I've got.
I got rhythm,
I got music,
I got,
well, we're changing it now.
It's I Got My Man or I Got My Gal,
but we're changing it to I Got My Life.
Who could ask for anything more?
I wanted to change it to We Got Skin Bags,
but the chorus,
the chorus overruled me.
So we're gonna sing,
I got rhythm,
I got music,
I got my life.
Who could ask for anything more?
I got daisies in green pastures.
I got my life.
Who could ask for anything more?
Old man trouble,
I don't mind him.
You won't find him around my door.
I got starlight,
I got sweet dreams.
I got my life.
Who could ask for anything more?
Who could ask for anything more?
And it turns out that even for people
with very good voices,
this opening is a little difficult.
So we're gonna try this.
We have a guest appearance.
We're gonna have,
the opening part is before the refrain
about I Got Rhythm.
We're gonna have,
Ella Fitzgerald is here today.
so Martha,
do you have the tape?
Okay, so you're,
so here,
standing in for Ella Fitzgerald.
You're gonna hold this?
Okay.
Okay, here we go.
And then join in with the chorus.
Days can be sunny
with never a sigh
Don't see what money can buy
Birds in the trees
sing their day full of song
Why shouldn't we sing along?
I'm a chipper all the day
Happy with my lot
How do I get that way?
Look at what I've got
I got rhythm
I got music
I got my life
Who could ask for anything more?
I got daisies
in green pastures
I got my life
Who could ask for anything more?
Oh when in trouble
I don't mind him
You won't find him
Round my door
I've got starlight
I've got sweet dreams
I've got my life
Who could ask for anything more?
Who could ask for anything more?
Thank you.
So I just want to dedicate that
to all the great Zen songwriters
from Sekito to Gershwin to Dylan
and thank you all very much.
May our intentions be clear
Ended up with Blowing in the Wind.
He did Tangled Up in Blue
and It's All Over Now, Baby Blue
and then a number of the songs
from the new album.
I'm drawing a blank on the rest of them.
Everybody Must Get Stoned,
of course, I guess.
So does anybody have any
reflections to share,
comments, questions?
We could just sit here.
Oh, come on.
What does anybody else think about it?
Seems like a big diversion
in a lot of ways.
I guess, I don't know.
I mean, Clinton has finally
admitted it and apologized.
I've never written his name,
but we would have
participated in churches.
I like the spice of sex,
betrayal, beheading,
things like that.
Well, it is a diversion,
but is it an object of diversion
from your little grass cut?
Well, there's also legitimate
political concerns and needs
and so forth, but yeah,
I mean, I appreciate your...
Well, I don't know.
I think maybe Russia beat itself
and we're in the process
of beating ourselves up.
Well, yeah.
Interesting.
I hope so, yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Other comments?
Turning the light around
to shine within, yeah.
So what about that?
Well, that's good.
No understanding at all.
I don't know, except that I...
I think it's...
I'm finding it very difficult to...
Martha, can you help?
Excuse me.
I'm finding it very difficult
to work on myself right now.
It is difficult,
and that's the problem
with diversions,
because sometimes, you know,
I mean, it's not that we shouldn't...
It's not that we should get rid
of all diversions.
I'm not, you know...
Sometimes these things
are helpful,
or at least a relief
or a rest or something,
but when they get in the way...
So what is preventing you
from just being...
from relaxing completely?
Me.
Oh, good, okay.
So the point is,
the point of the Song
of the Grass Hut
is just to be with that,
to be present with that,
because we make all kinds
of judgments about ourselves,
and we criticize ourselves,
and we feel like
we're not doing it,
but just to attend,
to observe and to see
and to be aware
that we are creating
our own problems
is a big part of it.
So how can you create a space
where you can actually
be present with that
and take that on
and look at that?
And it's not about
getting rid of the problems.
So relaxing completely,
you may still have problems,
but how do you...
I mean, the world is full
of problems,
and there's probably
no end of scandals
and so forth,
but how do you relax completely
into this skin bag,
into just being as you are
without trying to fix it?
The problem is,
the samsara,
the problem of rebirth,
the rat race,
is when we try and adjust
and manipulate and fix it.
So in a way,
just saying,
okay, these scandals
are going on,
we can enjoy that,
but without getting
caught up in it,
then you can return
to just being present.
So in our sitting meditation,
thoughts come up
and feelings come up
and all kinds of judgments
come up
and feeling like
we're doing it right
or we're not doing it right
or I did this wrong.
All of the judging mind,
which is the way our mind works,
is right there.
It's included.
It's right there.
But to just stay sitting upright,
to just sit
and let all the things rest,
doesn't mean that you try
and get rid of them
or push them away
or destroy them.
It's just, okay,
whatever problems I have,
they're there
and I can see it.
Okay, let that go.
So you're not trying
to solve anything
or figure out anything.
So this is kind of radical.
I mean,
we think of meditation
and various other things we do
as kind of therapeutic.
And in some ways,
they are,
but in a sense,
the deeper therapy
is to just give yourself
this space
that I think
the song of grasshut
is talking about
where you're just there
and you're not trying
to fix anything.
You're not trying
to get rid of your problems.
You're just there
being present
and seeing how
this body and mind work.
So I think that's
the recommended practice in this.
And of course,
there are times when
we do need to fix things
and we do need to work on things
and we do need to adjust things.
But just to be present
is the point.
So I don't know
if that's helpful.
There is this rumor
that Bill Clinton's
going to resign
and retire to a grasshut
at Green Gulch
and work in the kitchen.
But you probably haven't heard
the other rumor,
that Bill Clinton's
going to resign
and retire to a grasshut
at Green Gulch
and work in the guest program
making beds
in the guest house.
Anyway.
Other comments?
Other songs?
Sorry.
Yes, hi.
Yeah, I've been doing
these one-day workshops
for several years
comparing Buddhism
and Christianity.
And actually,
I teach at the
Berkeley Graduate
Theological Union
where most of my students
where I teach classes
in Buddhism
are Christian seminarians.
So I've been
doing a lot of this.
And it turns out that, well,
we come from
a Judeo-Christian culture.
So in some sense,
even the most confirmed Buddhists
of us are Christians.
But in terms of just being
where we're at,
we have to process
how our English language is,
all the religious terms we use
or we have a context
from Western religion for.
So to even talk about Buddhism,
we have to kind of look at
how they mix together.
And it turns out that there are
quite a large number of Christians
who still consider themselves
very faithful Christians
who also do Buddhist practice.
And this is becoming
more and more common.
So anyway,
the workshop next Saturday,
I'm going to be working
with a Methodist minister,
Judith Stone.
And we usually take a topic,
some topic,
and look at how that affects
our everyday life,
our everyday spiritual awareness
and what the implications of that
are in terms of everyday practice.
So this time,
we're going to look at grace
from the Christian side
and then Buddhist analogs of that,
taking refuge or kind of
the mutual resonance
with nature of Zazen
and how that is helpful
or how we find that
in our everyday activity.
So the point of these dialogues
is just to see how,
one thing is to see the similarities
because there certainly are.
Anybody who's committed
or engaged in a spiritual path
or way or activity,
whether it's Buddhist
or Christian or Islam
or, you know,
it doesn't matter,
there are some commonalities.
And then there are differences too.
So without trying to,
my own feeling is that
without trying to kind of
merge them together
and make them into the same thing,
we can appreciate
our own perspective
from seeing another
spiritual perspective.
So I find it really helpful
to study Christianity
as a Buddhist.
And the other way around,
I think, happens too.
Well, again,
the point isn't to merge them.
And they each have
different languages
and each have some
different approaches.
There are places
where it gets real sticky.
So Buddhism focuses
on kind of non-dualism,
on not getting caught up
in distinctions
and on seeing the spiritual
within us.
Whereas part of Christianity,
at least,
there's this real emphasis
on relationship
to the divine as other.
So this is a real basic difference.
And, you know,
if you say Buddhism
and Christianity, though,
there are many, many, many
different Buddhisms
and Christianity the same.
You know, there's everything
from Quaker to Baptist
to Roman Catholic
to Eastern Orthodox.
It's all Christian.
So then we have to be specific.
But then the other problem
is that we're all very,
many of us painfully aware
of the actual history
of how they've manifested socially.
So Christianity, we know,
has carried on witch hunts
and so forth.
So, and there's a way
in which we have fundamentalism
and different divisions
in Buddhism, too.
But how to see
what is the real teaching?
So it's not about necessarily
the particular historical institutions.
But if we look at,
try and look at
what was the teaching of Jesus
and what was the teaching of Buddha
and how is that relevant to us,
then I think we find commonalities.
We may also find differences.
But we can find kind of nourishment
either place.
Martha.
Just when you asked that,
I was thinking,
what were the,
there were some things
that Buddhist disciples
asked and you said
we didn't talk about.
And they tend to be things
that Christianity doesn't.
That's true.
On the theological level, yeah.
Buddhism doesn't,
you know, doesn't,
Rep says we doesn't answer
why questions, you know.
We don't talk about
how the world was created
or, you know,
actually the world,
in Buddhism the world
wasn't created,
the world's just been,
is endlessly created right now.
So theologically,
there are lots of differences,
actually.
If we start talking about
the doctrines and the theology,
there's lots and lots
and lots of differences.
But if we,
but in terms of the practice,
there's still some differences.
The orientation to self
or to,
well, even in Christianity,
there's,
Christianity,
there's still the kingdom
of God is within,
which,
so in each,
in each side,
you can find places
that resonate more or less.
Yes.
My teacher, Thich Nhat Hanh,
is visiting the social action,
very similar to my background
in working in Philadelphia
for the Quakers,
American Friends Service Committee,
being a whole pacifist thing
against the war and everything.
There's a fusion there.
Yeah, sure.
And while I think
that's one of the places
where Buddhism has a lot
to learn from Christianity,
so Christianity maybe
has to learn from Buddhism
about,
can learn from Buddhism
about contemplative practices,
meditation,
about kind of non-judgmental,
inclusive attitude,
about non-dualism.
I think Buddhism has,
in the Bodhisattva teachings,
this orientation
towards helping beings.
But there's a part
of Christianity,
and I think the Quakers
and Catholic worker folks
really represent that,
of commitment
to social justice.
And that's a place
that hasn't been
so developed in Buddhism.
It's there potentially
in the Bodhisattva teachings.
So I feel like there's a,
there are lots
of positive developments
happening in the conversation
between the two.
And that's one
of the main ones.
My own,
what early Christian experience
is Quaker, too,
so I appreciate that side
of Christianity a lot.
Hi.
I have an article here
by Harvey Cox
called Turning East,
and he probably
better than I do.
He talks about,
in this particular article,
about Sabbath
and how Shabbat,
how Christians and Jews
practice just one day
a week of being,
and how in Buddhism
it's all,
it's continuing,
it's continuing.
Well, in Buddhism,
in Zen, anyway,
let's be specific,
we emphasize kind of
sitting every day,
some kind of everyday practice.
I think the Sabbath
is a wonderful tradition
in Judeo-Christianity,
and maybe we need
to have more,
maybe in Asian Buddhism
they have that more,
kind of punctuation spaces.
But yeah,
it's an interesting place
to compare, I think.
The whole idea of the Sabbath
and taking a rest,
I mean, that certainly resonates
with relaxing completely.
And how do we see the,
so it also has to do
with rhythms,
the rhythm in the week.
We do have some practice
rhythm anyway,
whether we sit in the morning
or whether we come
to Green Gulch on Sunday,
or however we do that,
there's some rhythm
to our spiritual practice.
So looking at the Sabbath model
in Western religion,
I think is worth looking at, yeah.
So nobody has any songs
they want to sing?
Somebody must have a song.
Or just more talking.
One of the things
about not understanding at all
is that when we do have
some very wonderful
spiritual practice or teaching
that we really feel
enlivened by
and released with
and that we really think
is wonderful,
a wonderful treasure,
something very valuable,
there's a very natural
and positive feeling
of wanting to share that.
And there are very subtle places
where that can become
a big problem.
So one of the things
that attracted me to Buddhism,
which is the difference,
is that Buddhism,
for the most part,
isn't into proselytizing.
In fact,
sometimes Buddhism
is then particularly
makes it harder
for people to enter into it,
whereas,
although there are
some Buddhist sects
that kind of are
out on the street
trying to get converts,
but when you have some truth,
when you have some practice,
when you have something
that you think is good,
it's very easy
to hold onto that
and make that into something
that you want other people
to do too,
if only all those people
would sit zazen
or pray this way
or whatever.
And it's a fairly subtle step
to kind of fundamentalist,
proselytizing, conversion,
kill the heathens.
So that's something
we have to watch out for.
That's why not holding onto
some understanding
is really important in Buddhism.
It's fine to have some insight,
it's fine to have some practice,
but if we make it
into a thing
that we want to use
to awaken all beings,
that's a big problem.
So I've heard
that Kenneth Starr's father
was a fundamentalist preacher,
fire and brimstone preacher,
and that growing up
in his family,
that all pleasure
was considered sinful.
So...
So anyway,
this is part of the karma
along with Clinton's karma
that we're dealing with there.
Yeah?
I myself have a lot of difficulty
with the Buddhist states of Thailand.
I mean, somebody from Boston
had a lot of trouble
with the Buddhist country
with the corruption there.
Of course.
And the fighting
with the Tamil Tigers.
Absolutely.
We all revere,
but in reality,
he's fighting
to get back his kingdom
in a real sense.
And he might have
a Nobel Peace Prize,
but his brother ran the guerrillas
for 15 years
in the CIA support
after they were
kicked out of China.
So he's no total pacifist.
So I see all of them
doing everything totally against
the espousing of Buddhist concepts.
And so I'm not totally impressed
with Buddhist manifest
or Christianity manifest.
Oh, right.
I agree with that.
I think we should make distinctions,
though.
The dictators in Burma
and Cambodia
who've been killing monks recently
may call themselves Buddhists,
but whether or not
they're actually practicing
in a way we would recognize,
I don't know.
So I think when you have institutions,
when you have governments,
you have the kind of corruption
and power stuff
that goes on anywhere.
And that, of course,
is happening now
in the Buddhist world.
And China and India
were great Buddhist kingdoms,
and at least the Chinese government
now is pretty terrible.
Anyway, so this is the worldly realm.
Okay, all of this,
whether it calls itself
Buddhist or Christian,
this is still,
this is the realms
worldly people live, you know,
the places worldly people live.
And how do we respond to that,
you know, is the point.
And how do we not ignore that
and allow that,
include that in our grass huts
and find a space
from which we can return.
And so I think one of the things
that Buddhism has to offer
very much to activists,
Christian or otherwise,
is finding the space
of centeredness.
Because I was very active
in the anti-Vietnam War
and movement
and a lot of social...
Well, so you're not
just talking about being peace.
It's about contribution.
Yeah, so just finding
the space of calmness
from which to act non-judgmentally,
to respect all the people involved,
but to speak out
against the ignorance
and the harmful activities
that they may be doing,
changes how we approach
dealing with social realms
and gives us a space
that we're not so susceptible
to burnout.
Yes?
How do you balance
non-judgmentality with activism?
Because of their dualism,
the point you're saying,
this is wrong,
this is right,
I'm taking these stands
and you're saying
the Vietnam War was wrong.
Yes.
You're judging,
so kind of talk to that.
That's a great point, yeah.
So we have to kind of
not hold on to any...
We do have understandings
and we do make,
and we do,
if we see things,
something, it can be
in our personal realm too.
If we see somebody,
if we see one child
hitting another child,
we might stop them.
So how do we
look at what's going on
and respond in a way
that is appropriate,
that we can respond,
that may make
some strong statement
that I don't think
that says it's not right
to whatever,
to liquidate a whole forest
by cutting it down,
or whatever.
And yet we can get,
the non-judgmental part
is not,
maybe it has to do
with not getting hung up
on blaming
or seeing certain people
as the enemies,
or staying open
to other perspectives.
So how do we understand
Bill Clinton's karma
and Hillary's karma
and Kenneth Starr's karma
and how do we
practice forgiveness
and understanding
and in any situation,
if we get stuck
on some point of view
and are not willing to hear,
not open to hear
the complexities of it,
that's a problem.
So some of us
who were against
the American involvement
in Vietnam assumed
that if the North Vietnamese
would just win the war,
that that would solve everything.
No.
That's an extreme example.
So these are the places
where all the people live
and there are all of these
adjustments that need
to be made.
So I think coming back
to that space
of just sitting
with all things at rest
and coming back again
and again and finding
our own rhythm
of coming back to that
and then how do we respond
to what's going on.
Anyway, there's no,
I don't have a set answer.
It's just we have to
kind of work with it.
Yes, first.
Could it be also that
when you can take a stand
when you think something is wrong,
but at the same time
acknowledging that
what you think is wrong,
you also have in yourself
that you're not,
when you don't bring yourself
above other people
and say,
and point fingers and say,
they have this
and I'm better
and I'm condemning it.
But if you do it,
it's the way you do it
that you acknowledge
that you have that in yourself too.
Exactly.
That you have all of this stuff
that you don't like
in yourself too
and you have to accept it
and work with it.
That non-judgmental,
non-condemnation of other people
when you're acknowledging
that you have it in yourself,
I think takes it
to a different level
of accepting at the same time.
Yeah, so when we speak out
about something,
not thinking of the other person
as separate and different.
Or the enemy.
Or the enemy.
So whatever Bill Clinton's done,
because I know about Bill Clinton,
I'm capable of doing that too.
Whatever Kenneth Starr is doing,
I'm capable of doing that too.
Coming from that place then,
we can try to talk about,
well, how do we respond?
Yes?
I think it's really true
that people are the most incensed
about what their own shadows are.
Yes.
Which is what I think you're saying.
And they're not acknowledging
that they have that part of us
and there's room for lots of things
and it's not a black and white world.
It's the black and white thinking
and the investment in a cause,
that kind of judgment,
then it is an attachment.
An investment is an attachment.
And that's what we,
there's such a fine line.
We care with passion about certain things.
Vietnam or whatever it is.
Homeless, whatever it might be.
And we care with passion about things,
but if we step over that line
and we're invested,
then it is an attachment.
Right.
And also, we do have attachments.
So part of it is that we have
to acknowledge our attachments
when we see them.
So how do we acknowledge our,
confess our attachments
and confess our points of view
and not get caught by it,
not hold on to any understanding
and yet act when it seems appropriate.
So it's impossible to, you know,
to find some perfect, you know,
perfect understanding
or perfect method or way
of dealing with these complexities.
But coming back and seeing this skin bag,
seeing my own feelings and thoughts,
seeing my own attachments
and just recognizing them
and admitting them
and confessing them to myself,
first of all,
is a way of then
not getting caught up in harming
and responding as best we can.
And sometimes there's nothing you can do.
Yes?
I think we can't escape judgment.
We're living in a world
where everything's right and everything's wrong.
And we have to act according to this.
But what's important, I find,
is if you find something wrong
and you try to stop it
and to make it right,
that you always feel right.
We're dealing with human beings.
We have to open up the chance of change
whilst we're stopping something which is wrong.
So that the other person
or the other system or whatever,
has a chance to reflect about this wrongdoing
and to open up a chance for rightness.
I think we can't escape from judgment.
We have to act to this.
There are things which are right
and there are things which are wrong.
And we have to act according to this.
And not to make use of certain passivity
or know nothing about life.
Yeah, so I'm not talking about passivity
or total moral relativism.
There is good conduct
and there is harmful conduct.
And so we do have to make distinctions.
But to see, okay, this is this judgment.
And then not to make,
and not to say this is an evil person.
To see, somebody talked about
not getting stuck in black and whites.
To see the complexity, I think,
is very important, very helpful.
So it's very rare that there's a black and white.
And as you say,
if we can recognize what's happening
but then address the person
who is acting in some way
that we think is not so good,
that's really the most effective way.
It's not so easy,
but the most effective way
to stop these forests being cut down
in Northern California
would be to actually persuade
the people who own that company
to stop doing logging that way.
So how do we do that?
I don't know.
There aren't easy answers.
Martha.
So, I agree with what you're saying.
I mean, that's the way our mind works.
We're judgmental.
And the precepts of I love to avoid all evil
and embrace all good,
is we get into condemnation
and praise and censure and gain and loss.
And I wanted to ask you,
what is compassion?
I think compassion is what somebody over here said,
to see that that's something that's part of us.
All of it.
And it doesn't mean that we don't have,
we have to recognize the judgments we make
and not recognize the attachments we have,
but to not,
therefore, say that,
well, this group of people,
because they're bad,
we're going to put them in concentration camps.
Compassion is to not put people
in concentration camps,
or the equivalent,
to allow everybody to have their own grass hut.
To encourage that, in fact,
is compassion.
And to be compassionate and forgiving to yourself,
especially,
because it has to start with being compassionate
and forgiving to yourself.
So, a lot of people, I think,
are most judgmental and most harsh on themselves.
Maybe there's some people who direct all their harshness
and judgmentalism out, too,
and maybe they need to hear,
to see,
to be given some stern
lesson in the results and effects of their karma.
So there are consequences of what we do.
And it may mean that you have to go to prison
or get impeached or whatever,
but to also be compassionate
to ourselves.
I was thinking Nelson Mandela,
the world's darkest figure,
embodies what you're talking about.
Yes.
Nelson Mandela.
There are many of them.
So I think these great figures,
and also people we know in our own life,
who, in some ways,
act this,
walk that walk,
that's very helpful, too.
These are the ancestral teachers
who we have to be guided by.
And they're out there.
Lots of them.
Yes.
I would like to explore a little bit
what you were using in your song,
this metaphor,
pick up your hat,
but nothing is of value.
Uh-huh.
I don't know whether I really understand this.
When I translate for me,
picking up your hat,
that means always try,
don't give up,
become a human being.
Right.
Because the destiny of your life.
Just to become a human being
is to build the hat, yeah.
Yes.
That's how I would translate it for me.
On the other hand,
saying, oh, but regret,
nothing is of value.
It sounds very difficult to understand.
I don't know how you...
It can be translated literally as
where I don't have any valuables.
It's like there's no,
you know, there's nothing there
that's like a, you know,
treasure that you're kind of
locking up in a vault.
So the model of the grass hut,
I mean,
and there have been actually
in China and Japan,
meditators and writers and artists
who actually had these little simple huts
and lived that way
and really didn't have anything of value,
literally.
But I think metaphorically for us,
what it means is that
we don't, you know,
take some possessions,
even spiritual possessions,
and kind of lock them in a vault
and kind of guard them
and set out, you know,
kind of patrols to police the area
and make sure nobody can get in
and, you know,
we do tend to do that sometimes.
We do find things that we think are of value
and then we want to hold on to them
and we make that into
a kind of trap for ourselves
by holding on to that,
by holding on to those things.
So to build a grass hut
where we don't have some valuable
that we're guarding and protecting
and setting out, you know,
police dogs to, you know,
keep everybody out, you know.
I think it's more like that,
that whatever we have that's of value,
we find a way to share.
So it doesn't mean that you can't have
material possessions,
but how do you relate to those
material possessions?
How do you find a way to share
some of your material possession
or wealth or whatever?
It doesn't mean that you have to
live like a homeless person.
For some people,
maybe it does mean that.
I don't know.
But the point is not to
take something,
take some treasure,
and put it in a vault
and live your life based on
guarding that.
That's what I would say about it.
I don't know, but I'm not sure
I understand it completely either.
I was thinking,
if there's no value,
how can I orientate myself
when I build up my house?
I don't think there's no values.
I think there are standards.
We have the ancestral teachers
to show us what is of value.
There are things that are,
there are teachings,
there are possessions maybe,
there are things that are of value,
but it's more like
how do we hold them?
How do we,
do we build a hut that is a fortress
or do we build a hut that
may be perishable?
Or where we can feel the original master
whether it's perishable or not.
But it's a good question, yeah.
Yes?
Also, to set things up as valuable
is to just step right back into dualism
where this is valuable and that's not.
So we do have things that are of value,
but it's more like to be open
about what's the value.
So something that may seem
not very valuable may be become,
be very helpful in a certain situation.
Or may be valuable to someone else.
So if we judge by the standard of
the realms worldly people live,
you know, so-called,
then we get caught in
the usual view of commodities.
Whereas if we see everything as a treasure,
as a gift, everything as a value,
then we can enter a realm
where we are sharing
and where the things that I,
Suki Roshi used to say,
that these glasses are just,
they're not really mine,
I'm just borrowing them
and you're all kindly giving them to me,
letting me use them.
So how do we treat the world
with that kind of consideration
where it's not like I'm locking up something
to keep it for myself,
but where we have our share of the world
and we understand that what it is
that's valuable is shifting.
And we're open to seeing other forms of value.
The American who most embodies your talking speech
is surely Thoreau.
Yes.
He had a little cabin in his thing.
But he was an abolitionist
and surely he wouldn't have kept it from us.
Right. Oh, he had terrific values.
Yeah, Thoreau is a perfect model of the grass hut.
He definitely built a grass hut.
And his little hut in Walden
didn't last very long either,
but the original master was present.
So it's not that there are no values.
It's not that there's no standards.
When Sekito says in the Sanda Kai,
don't set up standards on your own,
it doesn't mean that there's no standards.
There are standards.
There are values.
There are things of value.
There is meaning in the world.
But how do we really find that?
How do we stay open to seeing value and merit
and meaning in a new way?
How do we take care of it?
It doesn't mean that we don't take care of what's valuable,
but to hold on to it and lock it away
is not taking care of it.
Deirdre.
Oh, I have two thoughts.
One was, I thought of the Okan.
I'm just going to throw it out there.
Yes.
Do you know, he's a classic exemplar of the grass hut.
He lived in this little shack.
Do you all know who he is?
He was a Japanese Soto Zen monk,
great poet, great calligrapher.
And one night he was sitting in his room
and he didn't have anything of value, literally.
I mean, he had a little blanket
and he was sitting in his room writing poetry,
looking at the moon, and a burglar broke in.
And the robber looked around
and couldn't find anything valuable to take.
And so Okan said, here, take this blanket.
And the guy just grabbed it and left.
And Okan wrote a poem about
how I wish I could have given him the moon.
So this is a very exalted example of this.
But there are actually quite a few poets
and artists and meditators in China,
some of whom we know about in Chinese and Japanese history,
who actually followed this kind of model pretty literally.
But as I said...
Oh, and one of the things I forgot to mention
is this model of the 10-foot square hut
is also important in the Zen tradition.
In China and Japan,
the abbot's quarters are supposed to be this 10-foot square hut.
Still in Japan, the abbot's quarters are called the hojo,
which means 10-foot square.
Of course, some of the abbots have had much larger quarters.
But the abbots themselves are also referred to as hojosan,
hojosan, after this 10-foot square hut.
But it's also the model of the dokusan room
or the teacher's room that we go into.
So this model's been used in different ways.
But given the origins of Vimalakirti
and the origins of being in the world
but not caught by the world,
I think it's a kind of teaching for us
of how do we find our way to be in the world?
It's not about rejecting the world
or ignoring the world
or kind of hiding away in some mountains
so we don't have to deal with all of the problems.
It's how do we find our own center
from which we can respond more effectively
to the problems of the world
and also just to enjoy,
and even apart from that,
to find the space where we can just enjoy being present.
That changes the world.
That does something in and of itself.
You had something else?
Yes.
This is something I'm thinking about a lot right now.
And I'm partially horrified in my own mind,
but the situation in Kosovo,
which is very bad right now
where people are being burned out of their homes and killed
and living in the mountains with winter coming on.
And it's sort of a...
It's Bosnia Part II
with all the same actors.
And there's a Kosovo...
Well, there's a liberation guerrilla army in Kosovo
that's trying to fight the Yugoslav army and losing.
And originally, Kosovo had a president who was nonviolent,
who is now irrelevant to the whole situation.
And Milosevic, basically, the president of Serbia,
can do what he wants to do
because he has so much control
and he owns all the media,
so the Serbian people don't really know what's going on.
And so the solution people are talking about now
is more NATO bombs,
which is what happened in Bosnia,
which is actually what kind of helped to close down
the Bosnian situation and stop what was going on there.
I normally do not think that bombing countries
is a good way to solve problems,
but I really feel like, you know, I don't know...
I don't know what would have stopped what was happening in Bosnia
and I don't know what will prevent the suffering of Kosovo,
but the NATO bombing in Bosnia seemed to help
and that's kind of appalling, but true.
I just can't find a place to rest with it myself,
not even when I can do anything at this point.
I think just to...
Thank you for giving us the report.
I think just to hear about it and keep it in our hearts,
I don't know that it helps.
I mean, sometimes there's nothing that one can do.
And I don't think any...
I don't know, maybe there are...
It seems like during World War II, pacifism,
even though in some ways I believe in pacifism,
that there needed to be military opposition
to the German Reich.
So I don't know that there's any blanket response.
I think being willing to just hear about these horrors...
I mean, what's happening in Burma now is also just as horrible
and there are other places in the world like this.
Just to be willing to hear about it, I think, is important
and to hold that, to include that, I don't know.
Does anybody have any response to that?
The fellow in the back had his hand up.
Let me give him a chance.
I saw a tape on training horses.
And the horse has got this...
His horses are horribly hard to train.
He's got a horrible attitude.
But this guy comes in to beat this horse.
It's a truth tape and this guy has the ability to deal with it.
It's kind of harmless to the horse.
He makes it tough for the horse to do the wrong thing.
He makes it easy for the horse to do the right thing.
In this case, I kind of feel like,
in the lowest position, he's a bad horse.
You have to make it tough for him to do the wrong thing.
And I think, on a bigger scale, maybe Bonham is appropriate
in this limited circumstance.
He steers him the right way, which is, I think, pretty peaceful.
And he's been able to be able to head him off
at one point in the past.
Then we can do it again.
And it's just a training method, I believe.
You need to harmonize with him, understand what makes him tick,
and then steer him in the proper direction.
Because he knows the right way to go.
He knows his path.
And he has to be tracked, I think.
I would disagree.
I mean, like Chomsky in describing East Timor,
for years, was the only person talking about it.
But then someone got a Nobel Peace Prize,
a bishop and an activist, Indonesia collapsed,
and they're now making a resolution,
without violence on our part.
And maybe you feel more comfortable killing people than I do,
but I think that's what you're advocating in using the bomb.
And that's what you said.
So let's discuss the bomb.
I lived in Germany after the war,
and we destroyed all of Germany.
And that was pretty overkill for Hitler.
We should have shot him.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, I know that one.
Well,
no, I think that's,
that the world does call us,
and we have many obligations and family and work and so forth.
What the song of the, so,
coming back to the song of the grasshood,
and just how do we find our own practice place
in this complicated world where there's
horrors and no easy answers.
I think just to find a space,
practically speaking,
to find a space in your house,
or somewhere around your house,
where you can just take some time each day.
I think every day,
doing it every day is really important,
just to have that space of just being there
with all things at rest.
And you may be thinking about Kosovo,
or worrying about what you have to do today.
There are lots of horrors and cruelty in the world.
And thinking about this attachment and that attachment,
but just, regardless of all that,
to have the space where you can just be there,
and maybe you include all of that,
but still, it's just, you're just sitting.
All things are at rest.
And to have some space,
having a physical space I think is really important.
It can be a very small corner of one room,
and you have a cushion to sit on,
and maybe, you know, some kind of altar.
It could be just a pine cone on a shelf.
I don't know.
Whatever cult represents something of the sacred to you.
But you have a space where you have,
that's your grass hut.
That's your space that you will return to.
And even if it's just 10 minutes every day,
whether it's in the morning or the evening,
to just take that time to just be there.
That's what I think building this sacred space is about,
building this grass hut.
And it's real, I think,
my own experience is that doing it,
having an everyday quality to it is really important.
You can sit for 40 minutes, great,
but if you've got to, you know,
take the kids to school,
or you have to get to work,
or whatever it is,
just 10 minutes.
20 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever.
Where you just give yourself the space
to take this particular period of time
and just be there.
With whatever comes up,
it's not a matter of having the right kind of mental space.
It's just to put your body there,
to sit up as best you can,
given the limitations of your own skin bag,
and just to be there
and to allow yourself that rest.
So that's what I'd recommend.
Yes?
I've been involved in this dance
for like probably 20 years now,
being attached and not attached.
Being in the world and not of it.
Sometimes I'm fully in the world and I'm suffering.
So I kind of, I go back and forth.
That's the rhythm.
We've got rhythm.
What seems to happen is when I get
very actively engaged,
the more attached I am,
and I start to suffer more,
then I come back.
Right.
Just back and forth.
Right.
Amen.
I get dizzy.
We get dizzy, yeah.
So to take that space,
to not give up,
and relax completely,
and let yourself get dizzy,
and just keep sitting,
and keep dancing.
So just to continue to try and find
your own grass hut,
your own space where you can be
present and observing yourself,
and to see what you just described.
I mean, that's testimony.
And it's not that there's some perfect,
there's no understanding that you're trying to reach.
There's no perfect solution to this.
We don't need a final solution.
Just to be present in the middle of the dance,
to observe the ways in which you get caught up in the world,
to see the ways in which you come back
and settle into your grass hut,
whatever it is,
not to get caught up in that either.
And how do you find that balance?
So the harmonizing of difference and sameness,
the harmonizing of the realm of the multiplicities of the world,
of the diversity of the world,
all the distinctions,
and the emptiness of each breath,
the practice is about that harmonizing,
and it's endless.
And if you ever reach some point
where it feels like you're in perfect balance,
your friend next door or somebody
is going to bring you their problems.
Yeah, so the point is just the dance,
to enjoy the dance.
Get into the process.
See that this is endless and it's beautiful.
And we're not doing it alone either.
You can't do it alone.
That we're all doing this together
and that there is support and help.
There are friends, spiritual friends, guides, models,
ancestral teachers all over the place.
And find nourishment where you can
and help nourish others.
I think most people feel
that there isn't a dance like that.
That they're not aware of the dance.
This is the worldly people it talks about
when it says places, worldly people,
realms, worldly people.
Of course, we're also all worldly people, right?
So we also can forget, all of us, and do forget.
But when we come back and we remember
about this space, this grass hut,
then we can forget about it.
Any last comments or questions?
We have a little bit of time before lunch.
Hi, Michelle.
I guess this is a variation on that theme.
I, for the last couple of weeks,
have been savoring something that feels like
the beginning of the song that you shared.
Just feeling really, being able to savor
every day, puttering around,
because I recently let my jaw go.
Relax completely.
At the same time, there's a voice
that is still saying,
you're not being productive enough.
And I've been thinking a lot about
how easy it is to relax completely
when you don't have the demands,
per se, of our particular culture.
The demands of everything we've done.
Well, I think the point is to relax completely
in the world.
Right.
It's hard.
I don't remember getting to this
feel like before, and not realizing
how I was there.
It's like when you find a room,
you realize how out of the group you were.
And I was even thinking about,
even if I were to come to the Zen Center
and follow the schedule,
I remember following schedules and feeling
I've got to hurry up and get this done.
I've got to hurry up and get there
so I can relax completely.
Well, I've got to get the gala swept
before everybody comes for service.
I mean, the pressure is...
Sure.
That's right.
So, I don't know if that's a question
or just a comment.
It's more testimony.
Thank you.
Yeah, you should all be congratulated
because you're all somehow,
by the virtue of the fact that you're here,
you're involved in this dance already.
So, congratulations.
Thank you.
Welcome.
This is your life.
And before I forget,
I just wanted to...
I know you won't be able to see it so well back there,
but I have a photograph of the rock
where Shaky Toe built his hut
that somebody took in China.
It's still there.
If you want to come up afterwards and see it.
I mean, it's just...