Good morning. So this morning I'd like to speak about an old Zen song, one of our golden oldies. It's called the Song of the Grass Hut or the Song of the Grass Roof Hermitage. It's by an old Chinese Zen master in our lineage from the 8th century, so it's more than 1,200 years old. And there's a translation of it in a book I did a little while ago called Cultivating the Empty Field. And because back in the 700s they didn't have CDs or recording studios or any of that, we don't know the melody anymore. But here are the lyrics.

[01:01]

I'll start off just by reading them. Song of the Grass Hut. I've built a grass hut where there's nothing of value. After eating, I relax and enjoy a nap. When it was completed, fresh weeds appeared. Now it's been lived in, covered by weeds. The person in the hut lives here calmly, not stuck to inside, outside, or in between. Places worldly people live, he doesn't live. Realms worldly people love, she doesn't love. Though the hut is small, it includes the entire world. In 10 feet square, an old man illumines forms and their nature. A Mahayana bodhisattva trusts without doubt The middling or lowly can't help wondering, will this hut perish or not?

[02:01]

Perishable or not, the original master is present, not dwelling south or north, east or west. Firmly based on steadiness, it can't be surpassed. A shining window below the green pines, jade palaces or vermilion towers can't compare with it. just sitting with head covered. All things are at rest. Thus, this mountain monk doesn't understand at all. Living here, he no longer works to get free. Who would proudly arrange seats trying to entice guests? Turn around the light to shine within, then just return. The vast inconceivable source can't be faced or turned away from. Meet the ancestral teachers, be familiar with their instruction. Buying grasses to build a hut and don't give up. Let go of hundreds of years and relax completely.

[03:05]

Open your hands and walk, innocent. Thousands of words, myriad interpretations are only to free you from obstructions. If you want to know the undying person in the hut, don't separate from this skin bag here and now. So I want to say a little bit this morning about this song, this song of the grass hut. So the person who wrote this, we say Sekito Kisen in the morning is his name in Japanese in our lineage, in Chinese, Shito Shichan. also wrote another poem that some of you are familiar with. In Japanese, it's called Sando Kai. It's in English, Harmonizing of Difference and Sameness, also known as Merging of Difference and Unity. So in that poem, Sekito talks about the realm of difference, the realm of diversity, the ordinary world out there, the conventional realm with all its distinctions.

[04:15]

And he talks about the realm of sameness, the realm of non-duality, the realm of unity, which maybe we get a glimpse of when we just sit with all things at rest. And one of the important lines in that poem is, grasping at things is surely delusion, but according with sameness is still not enlightenment. So that poem is about the, kind of the philosophical background of how we integrate our taste of sameness, of unity, of emptiness, of wholeness with the usual, all the usual distinctions and problems and various distinctions of the world. So that poem is kind of the philosophical background, and I feel like the Song of the Grass Hut is about how to practice that. This is Sekito's description of his practice. How do we practice this harmonizing of sameness and difference?

[05:20]

So that harmonizing of difference and sameness is been chanted for a thousand years in morning service and here too often at morning service in the Japanese monotone style of chanting we have here. As far as I know, the Song of the Grass Hut hasn't been chanted ever in Chinese or Japanese or English until last month in a monthly group I lead in Bolinas. And these are important texts for us. There's a new book coming out next year, I think, of Suzuki Roshi, our founder's lectures on the harmonizing of difference and sameness. And right now, the practice period in the center is focusing on this text. So I wanted to talk about this song of the grass hut and how do we actually practice this. So just to start at the beginning, I've built a grass hut where there's nothing of value.

[06:23]

After eating, I relax and enjoy a nap. So this is about simple everyday life. This is about just relaxing, eating, sleeping, ordinary, everyday stuff. He says there's nothing of value because whatever we value is going to pass away. So there's nothing to value. There's no thing to hold on to. There's nothing, no valuables to possess ultimately. But because there's nothing of value, we could say what's in the grass hut is worthless, or we could just say it's priceless. It can't be measured in dollars, can't be bought or sold. So Sekito himself actually built a little grass hut like this, a little hermitage, on top of a rock near his monastery. And his name, that means rockhead, It could be translated as on the rock.

[07:26]

So these hermitages, we could take it literally. In fact, there was a tradition in China and Japan of building little hermitages and retreating up to the mountains. But what I feel this song is about is how do we create our own space for practice, our own grass hut wherever we are? So actually, Sekito may have had this little grass hut, but he had many students also. And the word that's translated as grass hut is a name for some monasteries in China and Japan, some of them very large. So the point is, how do we find this space? How do we build a grass hut for ourselves? How do we build a space where we can carry out our own spiritual practice, our own spiritual values, find our own deepest truth. He says, when it was completed, fresh weeds appeared.

[08:30]

Now it's been lived in, covered by weeds. So I myself relate this to the weeds of papers and books that I have to sort through on my desk and floor periodically, covered in weeds. The person in the hut lives here calmly, not stuck to inside, outside, or in between. Places worldly people live, he doesn't live. Realms worldly people love, she doesn't love. So this is an important point, and kind of bitter in a way, and something we have to face when we build our grass hut, that this whole spiritual practice and the grass hut or Green Gulch Farm in some ways exists as a counter to the conventional world. So spiritual community, Sangha, is an alternative, in some ways an example of something other than the usual way of doing things.

[09:37]

The places worldly people love and the realms worldly people love. So spiritual community exists as someplace we can come to on a Sunday morning or sometimes to sit all day or sometimes people move here for a few months or however long. It exists as an alternative to the usual rat race distinctions of the world. So this is the grass hut. It's actually also the meaning of the shaved head that in our tradition that we get it, we receive it, priest ordination. It's kind of a counter fashion statement. Countering the usual fashions of the world. But I don't know any more since Phil Jackson, Roshi shaved Michael Jordan's head. It seems to have lost some of its meaning, become fashionable. Anyway, whether it's up in the mountains or whether you're working down on Market Street, how do you build this space where there's nothing to value, nothing to hold on to, where you can just be there, calmly present, living calmly,

[10:58]

How do you find your, build your own space for practice? So Dogen says, there's Dogen who brought this tradition from China to Japan in the 13th century, brought this lineage of grass huts and harmonizing difference and sameness. He said, there's no Buddha Dharma in the mundane world. But there's nothing mundane in the Buddha Dharma. So we have to face the entire world, and yet we sometimes see that there's not much out there that we, we sometimes want to run to a grass hut, you know. We want to come for some refuge to a place like Green Gulch. And these days, one of Zen Center's biggest problems is that we can't, we don't have enough spaces for the people who want to come and sit sessions or do practice periods at our free practice places. So many people are feeling that there is no Buddhadharma in the mundane world.

[12:07]

Last night I had the pleasure of hearing my favorite American Dharma poet, Bob Dylan, down in Mountain View with Van Morrison for dessert. It was great. You know, there's this Dylan song where he says, sometimes even the President of the United States must have to stand naked. And in the same song, he says, it's easy to see without looking too far that not much is really sacred. So recently, you know, I think we've been deluged in our national media and national political discourse, seems to have forgotten about any real social problems Whether you're tired of hearing about the president's sexual misconduct or whether you're tired of Kenneth Starr's inquisitions about it, we naturally want to retreat to some grass hut in the face of all that. So Sekito says, though the hut is small, it includes the entire world.

[13:20]

In 10 feet square, an old man illumines forms and their nature. So this is very important. The hut is maybe small, but it includes the entire world. And this 10 feet square is a reference to sutra about the great enlightened layman, Vimalakirti, who was a student of the historical Buddha in 500 BC in northern India. And he had this little 10 foot square room. And he managed to include into it many, many disciples and bodhisattvas, great awakening beings and spirits. So it's interesting that this idea of the grass hut became, in China and Japan, kind of a model for many poets and literati and writers and meditators to build some little space where they could go up in the mountains and get away from all the troubles of the world. But Vimalakirti, who had this original 10-foot square hut, lived completely immersed in the world.

[14:26]

And yet he was more enlightened, wiser than all of the great monk disciples. So I feel like he's a great example for us in our lay practice in America. He insisted on not retreating from the world and being right in the middle of the world. go to hang out in bars and hang out on the stock exchange and spend time teaching and hang out with dancing girls. He even was in the government. And wherever he went, though, he would help awaken beings and was considered the greatest of whoever was there in that worldly realm. And yet, he also had this grasshopper. So I think, again, even if you work in a cubicle downtown in a high-rise, how do you find the space to build a grass hut there? This is the question that we have to face.

[15:30]

But do you know it includes the entire world? So if you go to Tassajara, to the monastery, to try and get away from the problems of the world, you'll find that all the problems that you have will go with you, and everything in the world is right there. If you come and live at Green Gulch, still, the problems of the world are here, and of course, they'll be there. It's a refuge in the sense that there's some different attitude towards it, but still, you can't run away from that. And even right here this morning, each of us, includes many beings. You can't really sit alone, even in your own little grass hut, because whether you're alone or whether you're here, each of us is an expression of parents, family, friends, children, your sixth grade teacher, your great, great, great grandmother, genetically as part of who you are now.

[16:37]

somebody you passed on the street 10 years ago. Everybody you've met, every experience you've had is part of what we each are right now. So, though the hut is small, it includes the entire world. So how do we build a hut? How do we find a space to settle in and be willing to face the entire world? This is the practice that Sekhito is talking about. So he says, a Mahayana Bodhisattva trusts without doubt. So in Mahayana Buddhism, the Bodhisattva, like Manjushri sitting on the altar there, is a great heroic being dedicated to awakening everyone and awakening together with everyone. doing it together.

[17:39]

So Sekito says that this Mahayana Bodhisattva trusts without doubt. The middling or lowly can't help wondering, will this hut perish or not? Perishable or not, the original master is present. So you know, we're all middling and lowly sometimes. We all wonder, will our hut perish or not? So someday, even this wonderful Zendo that we're sitting in will crumble to dust. Hopefully not for a long time. And thanks to the support of the wider Sangha of Zen Center, it will be a very long time. But someday, everything, there will be no space here for us to sit together. Maybe it'll be a long time off. Japan next to a 1,000-year-old temple.

[18:43]

Some of those buildings were newer than that, but they were still very old. But even those temples eventually will crumble. Green Gulch in this practice, and our practice places are very fragile. We have to figure out now at Green Gulch how to get enough water and how to have Good enough septic system for the people who live here to be here. It's a complicated event, building a hut, even if there's nothing of value. So we can't help wondering sometime, will this hut perish or not? But Sekita says, perishable or not, the original master is present. So how many of you feel the original master sitting in your own space at home or coming to sit here? How do you, do you feel the original master is present?

[19:46]

How do we find the original master? How can we see her right here, right now? Perishable or not, the original master is present. not dwelling south or north, east or west. Firmly based on steadiness, it can't be surpassed. A shining window below the green pines, jade palaces over million towers can't compare with it. So he's describing his grass hut and this is a phrase, a shining window below the green pines is a kind of conventional phrase for a monk's place of study. So where is it that you, that you find you can study your deepest self, you can study your spiritual truth. That place, perishable or not, is a great treasure. It's priceless.

[20:49]

There's nothing of value there, but jade palaces or vermilion towers cannot compare with it. The song goes on, just sitting with head covered, all things are at rest. Thus, this mountain monk doesn't understand at all. So the practice we do here is sometimes called just sitting, meditating facing the wall, upright, just sitting, observing thoughts and feelings coming and going, enjoying our breathing. He says, with head covered, So this is an image of Bodhidharma, the legendary founder of Chan or Zen in China, who sat like this in a cave in northern China. And the pictures of him show this kind of quilt over his head because it was cold. But for all of us, just sitting with head covered, all things are at rest. And we can just sit here. And we can just sit here or in our grass-hearted home, wherever, and be present with the original master.

[21:56]

All the things of the world can finally just rest. It's not that the problems go away, but we have a space where we can just be there. We don't have to do anything. We don't have to fix anything. We don't have to solve any problems. Just head covered, all things are at rest. Thus, this mountain monk doesn't understand at all. That's my favorite line in the song. In thusness, right here, when we're just sitting with head covered, this mountain monk doesn't understand at all. So there's nothing to understand, you know? There's no view or understanding to hold onto. Nothing of value. Just be here. Just be free to be here. So how do we find this space to be present? calm and caring, without holding on to any understanding.

[23:00]

So maybe here at Green Gulch, close to Muir Beach, we could say this ocean monk doesn't understand at all. Anyway, whether you're in the mountains or in the city, not to hold on to any understanding. It doesn't mean we don't have understandings, but there's no understanding to hold on to, really. And there's a line from a case in the Blue Cliff Record collection of old Zen teaching stories. There's a commentary and there's a line that says, he has his own mountain spirit realm. So I think when we can just sit with head covered not understanding anything at all, then we have our own mountain spirit realm. This is what I feel this grass hut is about. How do we find a space where we can settle into our own mountain spirit realm or ocean spirit realm?

[24:03]

She has her own ocean spirit realm. Living here, he no longer works to get free. Who would proudly arrange seats trying to entice guests? Well, of course, we do this every Sunday morning. And you're all here. But I think this is a reminder to us that no matter how many people come here, if it's a large number or a small number, that's not the point. No longer work to get free, just to be. present and calm in our sitting in our grass hut. How do we build this grass hut? Turn around the light to shine within, then just return. The vast inconceivable source can't be faced or turned away from.

[25:08]

So I feel like our whole practice is in this one sentence. Turn around the light to shine within, then just return. So when we find our space in this grass hut, what we do as we're sitting is to turn the light within. Dogen says to take the backward step that turns your light inwardly to illuminate the self. So just to be present, to turn the light within, to forget about all of that business out there in the world for a little while. See what that light is that we turn on ourself. See the original master. How do you find the original master? How do you settle in this calm space where everything is included and yet all things are at rest? Turn around the light to shine within. Then just return. So it's not enough to find your own calmness.

[26:12]

It's not enough to find your own center. We have to then just return. So whether you come, whether you sit for 40 minutes in the morning or come and live at Green Gulch for three months or three years or Tassajara or a place like that, come to a meditation retreat for a day or a week, we still, we go back out. We just return. to the everyday, ordinary things of the world. So this grass hut is not something that, it's not a place to hide. It includes the entire world. And the point of our sitting is that then we just return to the world. And in some way, we're open to the world. So Green Gulch doesn't, you know, shut the gate and say, you know, we're doing this serious meditation here, don't come in. Sometimes we do that for a week, but still we have these Sunday mornings and Tassajara is its summer season. And each of us, when we do our meditation, we go back out and go to our jobs and be with our family.

[27:13]

And so we turn around the light to shine within, then just return. we have this rhythm to our practice. So just finding the space of calmness, of unity, of emptiness is not enough. That's only half. So there's this rhythm we have. We each have our own rhythm, and it's kind of a natural rhythm, you know? And maybe it's different for each of us. But it includes both sides. It includes just sitting, with all things at rest in our grass hut and that includes the entire world and we just return. So Sukhito says, meet the ancestral teachers, be familiar with their instructions, find grasses to build a hut and don't give up. This don't give up is important. We have to stick to it. It's not something that we find that space of calmness. We get a glimpse of the original master and then that's it.

[28:16]

We can forget about it. It's something we have to just keep doing. This is about sustainability. How do we continue being in the midst of the world and yet finding this space in our grass hut where we can not give up? Meet the ancestral teachers and be familiar with their instructions. So there's a line in Sekita's other poem, in the Harmony of Difference and Sameness, he says, hearing the words, understand the meaning. Don't set up standards of your own. So fortunately for us, we do have these ancestral teachers. So don't set up standards of your own. Doesn't mean there aren't any standards. We have guidance, fortunately. We have the Buddhas and the great teachers of all spiritual traditions.

[29:17]

Wherever we can find that help to see our original master, those are the ancestral teachers. So we have to meet the ancestral teachers, be familiar with their instructions, buying grasses to build a hut and don't give up. Let go of hundreds of years and relax completely. Open your hands and walk innocent. So it's kind of ironic, isn't it? Not giving up has to do with relaxing completely. So this relaxed completely. It's kind of nice. All we have to do is relax completely. It's easier to say, isn't it? I remember something that happened in this room. earlier version of this room, because the older Gringold Zendo grass hut did crumple and we had to rebuild this new one. It didn't crumble, we had to take it down because of earthquake safety and so forth. But in the old version of this Zendo, I was sitting, it's about 20 years ago, I was sitting back in the second row back there and there was a visiting teacher

[30:31]

almost 20 years ago, a Japanese Rinzai Zen master. And he was sitting right in this corner seat here. And I was sitting a little back in the second row. And I think Baker Roshi was giving a talk. And I remember seeing this guy and Something about the way he was sitting there, this old Japanese Zen master, he was relaxed completely. I mean, there was not a muscle that was holding on. And you could just see, or I could just see it. It just felt to me like he was just there. And I was kind of, I could see his side and his back, but he was just completely relaxed. So I don't know if this had to do with his grass hut or if he had a really good masseuse. Anyway, but he was really just sitting there and not a single muscle holding on anywhere. It was just amazing. I mean, it wasn't amazing to him. He was just there. So this is about just letting go.

[31:37]

Relax completely, but don't give up. So this is also about not ignoring the world. We relax completely, but the entire world is there. We can't turn away from all of the troubles and problems of the world. And yet, somehow, we can have this space where the original master is present, where we can relax completely. So thousands of words, myriad interpretations are only to free you from obstructions. So there are libraries full of Buddhist teachings, you know, and other great spiritual teachings and songs like this and lots of texts and what he's saying in the song is that all of them, all of the interpretations and words and all of these things I've been babbling about are only to free you from obstruction. If you want to know the undying person in the hut, don't separate from this skin bag here and now.

[32:45]

So this is the final words, instructions of this song. It's just about being present. All Buddhist teachings are just to let us let go of our conditioning, our obstructions, all the places we're holding on, all the tense muscles, you know, and just relax completely, just to be present, to be with this unconditioned, unborn, true self, this deepest self. And it means don't separate from this skin bag here and now, this body and mind, this bag of bones. just to truly be our deepest self is the point. So we don't have to become somebody else. You know, it's really good news. It's, we don't have to, you know, reach some great state of mental, um, discipline or, you know, some exalted meditative space just to really be present with this skin bag here and now.

[33:51]

Then the original master is present. So as I said, we don't know the melody, the tunes to the Song of the Grass Hut, how they sang it, how Sekito sang it back then. We just have the words. But he does say to meet the ancestral teachers and be familiar with their instructions. So I wanted to honor today one of our ancestral songwriters, whose 100th birthday was yesterday, George Gershwin. So I thought we should close with a Gershwin song. And this is going to be a little complicated, so bear with me. My teacher, Reb Anderson, likes to close his talks with songs, but I don't have a good voice like Reb, and I don't even have as good a voice as Bob Dylan.

[35:01]

And actually, he was in really good voice last night. But anyway, so I have a little, I'm gonna get some help from my friends. We have a chorus of, an ad hoc chorus of Zen, George Gershwin singers, who are going to help us sing this song. So I wanted to read the lyrics first. and then we'll sing it. So this is a song, this song I picked that somehow felt to me like it said something about this grass hut, is called I Got Rhythm. Do any of you know it? So I hope that, I hope that you will sing along with us, but I wanted to read the lyrics first, and then we have a special guest appearance also. So the opening, I really like. It goes, days can be sunny, but never a sigh. Don't need what money can buy.

[36:04]

Birds in the trees sing their day full of song. Why shouldn't we sing along? I'm chipper all the day, happy with my lot. How do I get that way? Well, look at what I've got. I got rhythm, I got music, I got, well, we're changing it now. It's I got my man or I got my gal, but we're changing it to I got my life. Who could ask for anything more? I wanted to change it to we got skin bags, but the chorus. The chorus overruled me, so we're gonna sing, I got rhythm, I got music, I got my life. Who could ask for anything more? I got daisies in green pastures, I got my life. Who could ask for anything more? Old man trouble, I don't mind him, you won't find him round my door. I got starlight, I got sweet dreams. I got my life, who could ask for anything more? Who could ask for anything more? And it turns out that even for people with very good voices, this opening is a little difficult. So we're gonna try this. We have a guest appearance.

[37:08]

We're gonna have the opening part is before the refrain about I got rhythm, we're gonna have Ella Fitzgerald is here today. So Martha, do you have the tape? Okay, so standing in for Ella Fitzgerald. Okay, here we go. And then join in with the chorus. Days can be funny with never a sound What money can buy?

[38:18]

Birds in the trees sing their day full of song Why shouldn't we sing along? I'm a chipper all the day Happy with my life Do I get that way? Look at what I've got! I've got rhythms, I've got music, I've got my life, who could ask for anything more? I've got daisies in green pastures I've got my life, who could ask for anything more? Old man trouble, I don't mind him.

[39:20]

You won't find him round my door. I've got starlight, I've got sweet dreams. I got my life, who could ask for anything more? Who could ask for anything more? Thank you. I'll just close up. I just want to dedicate that to all the great Zen songwriters from Sekito to Gershwin to Dylan, and thank you all very much. He ended up with Blowing in the Wind.

[40:23]

He did Tangled Up in Blue and It's All Over Now, Baby Blue, and then a number of the songs from the new album. I'm drawing a blank on the rest of them. Everybody must get stoned, of course. So does anybody have any reflections to share, comments, questions? We could just sit here. Oh, come on. What does anybody else think about it? Yeah.

[41:28]

Seems like a big diversion in one way. Not that I guess, I don't know. I mean, Clinton has finally admitted it and apologized. It's entertaining, I guess. But it sometimes can be a diversion. Well, there's also legitimate political concerns and needs and so forth.

[42:44]

But yeah, I mean, I appreciate your... Well, I don't know. I think maybe Russia beat itself and we're in the process of beating ourselves up. Well, yeah. Uh-huh. Interesting. I hope so. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Other comments? Uh-huh. turning the light around to shine within, yeah.

[43:44]

So what about that? Well that's good, no understanding at all. Martha, can you help me? Excuse me. I'm finding it very difficult to work on myself. It is difficult. And that's the problem with diversions, because sometimes, you know, I mean, it's not that we shouldn't, it's not that we should get rid of all diversions. I'm not, you know, sometimes these things are helpful, but, or at least a relief or a rest or something. But when they get in the way, So what is preventing you from just being, from relaxing completely?

[44:52]

Oh good, okay. So the point is, the point of the Song of the Grass Hut is just to be with that, to be present with that. Because we make all kinds of judgments about ourselves and we, criticize ourselves and we feel like we're not doing it, but just to attend to observe and to see and to be aware that we are creating our own problems is a big part of it. So how can you create a space where you can actually be present with that and take that on and look at that? And it's not about getting rid of the problems. So relaxing completely, you may still have problems. But how do you, you know, the world is full of problems. And there's probably no end of scandals and so forth. But how do you relax completely into this skin bag, into just being as you are and without trying to fix it?

[46:03]

Problem is, samsara, the problem of rebirth, the rat race, is when we try and adjust and manipulate and fix it. So in a way, just saying, okay, these scandals are going on, we can enjoy that. But without getting caught up in it, then you can return to just being present. So in our sitting meditation, thoughts come up and feelings come up and all kinds of judgments come up. feeling like we're doing it right or we're not doing it right or I did this wrong. All of the judging mind, which is the way our mind works, is right there. It's included. It's right there. But to just stay sitting upright, to just sit and let all the things rest, doesn't mean that you try and get rid of them or push them away or destroy them. It's just, okay, whatever problems I have, they're there and I can see it, okay? Let that go. So you're not trying to solve anything or figure out anything. So this is kind of radical. I mean, we think of meditation and various other things we do as kind of therapeutic.

[47:07]

And in some ways they are, but in a sense, the deeper therapy is just to just give yourself the space that I think the song of grass hut is talking about, where you're just there and you're not trying to fix anything. You're not trying to get rid of your problems. You're just there being present and seeing how this body and mind work. So I think that's the recommended practice in this. And of course there are times when we do need to fix things, and we do need to work on things, and we do need to adjust things. But just to be present is the point. So I don't know if that's helpful. There is this rumor that Bill Clinton is going to resign and retire to a grass hut at Green Gulch and work in the kitchen. But you probably haven't heard the other rumor that Bill Clinton is going to resign and retire to a grass hut at Green Gulch and work in the guest program making beds in the guest house.

[48:15]

Other comments, other songs? I'm sorry. Yes, hi. I'm glad to hear that you're going to be doing some talk about the procession. Yeah, I've been doing these one-day workshops for several years comparing Buddhism and Christianity, and actually I teach at the Berkeley Graduate Theological Union where most of my students, where I teach classes in Buddhism, are Christian seminarians, so I've been doing a lot of this.

[49:23]

It turns out that, well, we come from a Judeo-Christian culture, so in some sense even the most confirmed Buddhists of us are Christians, you know. in terms of just being where we're at, we have to process how our English languages, all the religious terms we use, we have a context from Western religion for. So to even talk about Buddhism, we have to kind of look at how they mix together. And it turns out that there are quite a large number of Christians who still consider themselves very faithful Christians who also do Buddhist practice. and this is becoming more and more common. So anyway, the workshop next Saturday, I'm going to be working with a Methodist minister, Judith Stone, and we usually take a topic, some topic, and look at how that affects our everyday life, our everyday spiritual awareness.

[50:26]

and what the implications of that are in terms of everyday practice. So this time we're gonna look at grace from the Christian side and then Buddhist analogs of that taking refuge or kind of the mutual resonance with nature of Zazen and how that is helpful or how we find that in our everyday activity. So the point of these dialogues is just to see how, one thing is to see the similarities, because there certainly are. Anybody who's committed or engaged in a spiritual path or way or activity, whether it's Buddhist or Christian or Islam or, you know, it doesn't matter, there are some commonalities. And then there are differences too. without trying to, my own feeling is that without trying to kind of merge them together and make them into the same thing, we can appreciate our own perspective from seeing another spiritual perspective.

[51:34]

So I find it really helpful to study Christianity as a Buddhist. And the other way around, I think, happens too. Well, again, the point isn't to merge them, and they each have different languages and each have some different approaches. There are places where it gets real sticky. So Buddhism focuses on non-dualism, on not getting caught up in distinctions, and on seeing the spiritual within us, whereas part of Christianity At least there's this real emphasis on relationship to the divine as other.

[52:37]

So this is a real basic difference. If you say Buddhism and Christianity, though, there are many, many, many different Buddhisms. In Christianity, the same. There's everything from Quaker to Baptist to Roman Catholic to Eastern Orthodox. It's all Christian. So then we have to be specific. But then the other problem is that we're all very, many of us painfully aware of the actual history of how they've manifested socially. So Christianity, we know, has carried on witch hunts and so forth. And there's a way in which we have fundamentalism and different divisions in Buddhism too, but how to see what is the real teaching. So it's not about necessarily the particular historical institutions, but if we try and look at what was the teaching of Jesus and what was the teaching of Buddha and how is that relevant to us, then I think we find commonalities.

[53:43]

We may also find differences, but we can find kind of nourishment either place. Martha? That's true. On the theological level, yeah, Buddhism doesn't answer why questions. We don't talk about how the world was created. Actually, in Buddhism, the world wasn't created. The world is endlessly created right now. So theologically, there are lots of differences, actually. If we start talking about the doctrines and the theology, there's lots and lots and lots of differences. But in terms of the practice, there's still some differences. The orientation to self or to, well, even in Christianity, there's still the kingdom of God is within. So in each side, you can find places that resonate more or less.

[54:50]

Yes? Yeah, sure. And I think that's one of the places where Buddhism has a lot to learn from Christianity. So Christianity maybe has to learn from Buddhism about, can learn from Buddhism about contemplative practices, meditation, about kind of non-judgmental, inclusive attitude, about non-dualism. I think Buddhism has in the Bodhisattva teachings this orientation towards helping beings. But there's a part of Christianity, and I think the Quakers and Catholic worker folks really represent that, of commitment to social justice. And that's a place that hasn't been so developed in Buddhism. It's there, potentially, in the Bodhisattva teachings.

[55:52]

So I feel like there are lots of positive developments happening in the conversation between the two, and that's one of the main ones. My own early Christian experience is Quaker too, so I appreciate that side of Christianity a lot. Well, in Buddhism, in Zen, anyway, let's be specific, we emphasize kind of sitting every day, some kind of everyday practice. I think the Sabbath is a wonderful tradition in Judeo-Christianity and maybe we need to have more, maybe in Asian Buddhism they have that more, kind of punctuation spaces.

[57:03]

Yeah, it's an interesting place to compare, I think. The whole idea of the Sabbath and taking a rest, I mean, that certainly resonates with relaxing completely. And how do we see the rhythm? So it also has to do with rhythms, the rhythm in the week. We do have some practice rhythm anyway, whether we sit in the morning or whether we come to Green Gulch on Sunday, or however we do that, there's some rhythm to our spiritual practice. So looking at the Sabbath model in Western religion I think is worth looking at. So nobody has any songs they want to sing? Somebody must have a song. or just more talking.

[58:21]

One of the things about not understanding at all is that when we do have some very wonderful spiritual practice or teaching that we really feel enlivened by and released with and that we really think is wonderful, a wonderful treasure, you know, something very valuable, there's a very natural and positive feeling of wanting to share that. And there are very subtle places where that can become a big problem. One of the things that attracted me to Buddhism, which is the difference, is that Buddhism for the most part isn't into proselytizing. In fact, sometimes Buddhism particularly makes it harder for people to enter into it. Although there are some Buddhist sects that are out on the street trying to get converts. When you have some truth, when you have some practice, when you have something that you think is good, it's very easy to hold on to that and make that into something that you want other people to do too.

[59:30]

If only all those people would sit zazen or pray this way or whatever. And it's a little, it's not, it's a fairly subtle step to kind of fundamentalist, you know, proselytizing, conversion, kill the heathens, you know. So that's something we have to watch out for. That's why not holding on to some understanding is really important in Buddhism. It's fine to have some insight, it's fine to have some practice, but if we make it into a thing that we want to use to awaken all beings, that's a big problem. So I've heard that Kenneth Starr's father was a fundamentalist preacher, fire and brimstone preacher, and that growing up in his family, that all pleasure was considered sinful. So anyway, this is part of the karma, along with Clinton's karma that we're dealing with there.

[60:36]

Yeah? I myself have a lot of difficulty with the Buddhist faiths of Thailand. I mean, I study Vipassana. There's a lot of trouble in the Buddhist country with the corruption there. Of course. In the fight with the Tamil Tigers. Absolutely. We all revere it, but in reality, So he's no total pacifist. So I see all of them doing everything totally against the espousing of Buddhist concepts. So I'm not totally impressed with Buddhist manifest or Christianity manifest. Oh right, I agree with that. I think we should make distinctions though. Dictators in Burma and Cambodia who have been killing monks recently may call themselves Buddhists.

[61:39]

whether or not they're actually practicing in a way we would recognize, I don't know. So I think when you have institutions, when you have governments, you have the kind of corruption and power stuff that goes on anywhere and that of course is happening now in the Buddhist world. China and India were great Buddhist kingdoms and At least the Chinese government now is pretty terrible. Anyway, so this is the worldly realm, all of this. Whether it calls itself Buddhist or Christian, this is still the realms worldly people live, the places worldly people live. And how do we respond to that is the point. not ignore that and allow that, include that in our grasshuts and find a space from which we can return. So I think one of the things that Buddhism has to offer very much to activists, Christian or otherwise, is finding the space of centeredness. Because I was very active in the anti-Vietnam war and movement and a lot of social...

[62:47]

Yeah, so just finding the space of calmness from which to act non-judgmentally, to respect all the people involved, but to speak out against the ignorance and the harmful activities that they may be doing, changes how we approach dealing with social realms and gives us a space where we're not so susceptible to burnout. Yes. Yes. That's a great point, yeah. So we have to kind of not hold on to any, you know, we do have understandings.

[63:51]

And we do make, and we do, if we see things, something, you know, it can be in our personal realm too. If we see somebody, if we see one child hitting another child, we might stop them. So how do we look at what's going on and respond in a way that that is appropriate, that we can respond, that may make some strong statement that I don't think that says it's not right to whatever, to liquidate a whole forest by cutting it down or whatever. And yet, we can get the non-judgmental part is not Maybe it has to do with not getting hung up on blaming or seeing certain people as the enemies or staying open to other perspectives. So how do we understand Bill Clinton's karma and Hillary's karma and Kenneth Starr's karma and how do we practice forgiveness and understanding.

[65:02]

in any situation, if we get stuck on some point of view and are not willing to hear, not open to hear the complexities of it, that's a problem. So some of us who were against the American involvement in Vietnam assumed that if the North Vietnamese would just win the war, that would solve everything. No, so that's an extreme example. So these are the places where all the people live and there are all of these adjustments that need to be made and so I think coming back to that space of just sitting with all things at rest and coming back again and again and finding our own rhythm of coming back to that and then how do we respond to what's going on. Anyway, there's no, I don't have like a set answer.

[66:05]

It's just we have to kind of work with it. Yes, first. Could it be also that you can take a stand when you think something is wrong but at the same time acknowledging that what you think is wrong you also have in yourself And you don't bring yourself above other people and point fingers and say, they have this and I'm better and I'm condemning it. If you do it, it's the way you do it that you acknowledge that you have that in yourself too. I can't take it to a different level. Yeah, so when we speak out about something, not thinking of the other person as separate and different, or the enemy.

[67:17]

So whatever Bill Clinton's done, because I know about Bill Clinton, I'm capable of doing that too. Whatever Kenneth Starr is doing, I'm capable of doing that too. Coming from that place then, we can try to talk about, well, how do we respond? It's the black and white thinking and the investment in a cause, that kind of judgment, and it's an attachment, an investment in attachment. Right, and also we do have attachments.

[68:23]

So part of it is that we have to acknowledge our attachments when we see them. So how do we acknowledge our, confess our attachments and confess our points of view? and not get caught by it, not hold on to any understanding, and yet act when it seems appropriate. So it's impossible to find some perfect understanding, a perfect method or way of dealing with these complexities, but coming back and seeing this skin bag, seeing my own feelings and thoughts, seeing my own attachments and just recognizing them and admitting them and confessing them to myself, first of all, is a way of then not getting caught up in harming and responding as best we can. And sometimes there's nothing you can do. Yes?

[69:26]

Yeah, so that's, yes. Yeah, so I'm not talking about passivity or like total moral relativism. There is good conduct and there is harmful conduct and so we do have to make distinctions but to see okay this is this judgment and then not to make and not to say this is an evil person. Somebody talked about not getting stuck in black and white. To see The complexity I think is very important, very helpful. So it's very rare that there's a black and white, you know. And as you say, if we can recognize what's happening but then address the person who is acting in some way that we think is not so good, that's really the most effective way. It's not so easy, but the most effective way to stop these forests being cut down in Northern California would be to actually persuade the people who own that company to stop doing logging that way.

[71:21]

So how do we do that? I don't know. There aren't easy answers. I think compassion is what somebody over here said, to see that that's something that's part of us. All of it, whoever, and it doesn't mean that we don't have, we have to recognize the judgments we make and not recognize the attachments we have, but to not therefore say that, well, this group of people, because they're bad, we're going to put them in concentration camps. Compassion is to not put people in concentration camps or the equivalent, to allow everybody to have their own grass hut.

[72:28]

To encourage that, in fact, is compassion. and to be compassionate and forgiving to yourself, especially, because it has to start with being compassionate and forgiving to yourself. So a lot of people, I think, are most judgmental and most harsh on themselves. Maybe there's some people who direct all their harshness and judgmentalism out, too, and maybe they need to hear, to see, to be given some stern lesson in the results and effects of their karma. So there are consequences of what we do. And it may mean that you have to go to prison or get impeached or whatever, but to also be compassionate to ourselves. Yes. Nelson Mandela. There are many of them. So I think the, the, these great figures and, and also people we know in our own life who in some ways, um, act this, you know, walk that walk.

[73:39]

That's very, it's very helpful too. And these are the ancestral teachers, you know, who we have to, to, uh, be guided by. And they're out there, lots of them. Yes. Right. Just to become a human being is to build the hut. Yeah. It can be translated literally as where I don't have any valuables. It's like there's no, you know, there's nothing there that's a, that's like a, you know, treasure that you're kind of locking up in a vault.

[74:41]

So the model of the grass hut, I mean, and there have been actually in China and Japan, meditators and writers and artists who actually had these little simple huts and lived that way and really didn't have anything of value literally. But I think metaphorically for us, what it means is that we don't, you know, take some possessions, even spiritual possessions, and kind of lock them in a vault and kind of guard them and set out, you know, kind of patrols to police the area and make sure nobody can get in. We do tend to do that sometimes. We do find things that we think are of value and then we want to hold on to them and we make that into a kind of trap for ourselves by holding on to those things. So to build a grass hut where we don't have some valuable that we're guarding and protecting and sitting out, you know, police dogs to keep everybody out, you know.

[75:46]

I think it's more like that, that whatever we have that's of value, we find a way to share. So it doesn't mean that you can't have material possessions. But how do you relate to those material possessions? How do you find a way to share some of your material possession or wealth or whatever? It doesn't mean that you have to live like a homeless person. For some people maybe it does mean that, I don't know. But the point is not to take something take some treasure and put it in a vault and live your life based on guarding that. That's what I would say about it. I don't know, but I'm not sure I understand it completely either. I don't think there's no values.

[76:49]

I think there are standards. We have the ancestral teachers to show us what is of value. There are things that are, there are teachings, there are possessions, maybe there are things that are of value, but it's more like how do we, how do we hold them? How do we, how do we have, do we build a hut that, you know, is a fortress or do we build a hut that may be perishable? or where we can feel the original master, whether it's perishable or not. But it's a good question. Yes? So we do have things that are of value, but it's more like to be open about what's the value. So something that may seem not very valuable may be very helpful in a certain situation.

[77:56]

Or may be valuable to someone else. So if we judge by the standard of the realms worldly people live, so-called, then we get caught in the usual view of commodities. Whereas if we see everything as a treasure, as a gift, everything is of value. then we can enter a realm where we are sharing and where the things that I, Suki Roshi, used to say that these glasses are just, you know, they're not really mine, I'm just borrowing them and you're all kindly giving them to me, letting me use them. So how do we treat the world with that kind of consideration? where it's not like I'm locking up something to keep it for myself, but where we have our share of the world and we understand that what it is that's valuable is shifting. And we're open to seeing other forms of value.

[79:04]

The American people, most of the bodies you're talking to, speech is truly heroic. Yes. But he was an abolitionist and surely he wouldn't have got it wrong. So it's not that there are no values, it's not that there's no standards. When Sekito says in the Sanda Kai, don't set up standards on your own, it doesn't mean that there's no standards. There are standards, there are values, there are things of value. There is meaning in the world. But how do we really find that? How do we stay open to seeing value and merit and meaning in a new way? How do we take care of it? It doesn't mean that we don't take care of what's valuable, but to hold on to it and lock it away is not taking care of it.

[80:11]

Deirdre. Yes. Do you know, he's a classic exemplar of the grass hut. He lived in this little shack. Do you all know who he is? He was a Japanese Soto Zen monk, great poet, great calligrapher. And one night he was sitting in his room and he didn't have anything of value, literally. I mean he had a little blanket and he was sitting in his room writing poetry looking at the moon and a burglar broke in. And the robber looked around and couldn't find anything valuable to take, and so Rilkon said, here, take this blanket. And the guy just grabbed it and left, and Rilkon wrote a poem about how he wished he could have given him the moon. So this is a very, you know, exalted example of this, but there are actually quite a few poets and artists and meditators in China, some of whom we know about in Chinese and Japanese history, who actually followed this kind of model pretty literally.

[81:20]

But as I said, you know, one of the things I forgot to mention is this model of the 10-foot square hut is also important in the Zen tradition. In China and Japan, the abbot's quarters are supposed to be this 10-foot square hut. Still in Japan, the abbot's quarters are called the Hojo, which means 10-foot square. Of course, some of the abbots have had much larger quarters. But the abbots themselves are also referred to as Hojo-san, after this 10-foot square hut. But it's also the model of the doksan room or the teacher's room that we go into. So this model has been used in different ways, but given the origins with Vimalakirti and the origins of being in the world but not caught by the world, I think it's a kind of teaching for us of how do we find our way to be in the world. It's not about rejecting the world or ignoring the world or kind of hiding away in some mountains so we don't have to deal with all of the problems.

[82:28]

It's how do we find our own center from which we can respond more effectively to the problems of the world. And also just to enjoy, and even apart from that, to find the space where we can just enjoy being present. That changes the world. That does something in and of itself. You had something else? in Kosovo, which is very bad right now, where people are being burned out of their homes. And it's sort of a bothering at parts, too. It's all the same actors. Liberation guerrilla army in Costa Rica, trying to fight the Republican army.

[83:47]

Yeah. Yeah. I think just to thank you for giving us the report, I think just to hear about it and keep it in our hearts, I don't know that it helps.

[85:22]

I mean, sometimes there's nothing that one can do. And I don't think any, I don't know, maybe, it seems like during World War II, pacifism, even though in some ways I believe in pacifism, that there needed to be military opposition to the German Reich. So I don't know that there's any blanket response. I think being willing to just hear about these horrors and what's happening in Burma now is also just as horrible and there are other places in the world like this. Just to be willing to hear about it I think is important and to hold that, to include that, I don't know. Does anybody have any response to that? The fellow in the back had his hand up. Let me give him a chance. And the horse has got this, you know, it's got this tradition where this horse is horribly hard to train.

[86:31]

He's got a horrible attitude with it. This guy comes in to beat this horse, and he makes a truth cake, and this guy has an ability to deal with it. It's kind of harmless to the horse. It makes it tough for the horse to do the wrong thing. It makes it easy for the horse to do the right thing. And I think in a bigger scale than the economy, it's appropriate, you know, in this moment in circumstance, to steer him the right way, which is to be peaceful. And if he's been able to be able to head the hospital at one point in the past, he would be good again. And it's just a training method, I believe. You need to harmonize with him, understand him, make transactions with him. I would disagree being like Chomsky in describing peace to war for years was the only person talking about it. But then someone got a Nobel Peace Prize, a bishop and an activist, Indonesia collapsed, and they're now making resolutions without violence on our part.

[87:34]

Maybe you feel more comfortable killing people than I do, but I think you realize what you're advocating in using a bomb. destroyed all of Germany. And that was pretty overkill for Hitler. He just had to stop him. Yes. Yes, I know that one. No, I think that the world does call us and we have many obligations and family and work and so forth.

[88:48]

Coming back to the Song of the Grass Hut and just how do we find our own practice place in this complicated world where there's Horrors and no easy answers. I think just to find a space, practically speaking, to find a space in your house or somewhere around your house where you can just take some time each day. I think every day, doing it every day is really important, just to have that space of just being there with all things at rest. And you may be thinking about Kosovo or worrying about what you have to do today. There are lots of horrors and cruelty in the world. and thinking about this attachment and that attachment, but just, regardless of all that, to have the space where you can just be there, and maybe you include all of that, but still, it's just, you're just sitting, all things are at rest. And to have some space, having a physical space I think is really important. It can be a very small corner of one room and you have a cushion to sit on and maybe, you know, some kind of altar.

[89:55]

It could be just a pine cone on a, on a shelf. I don't know what, whatever, whatever call represents something of the sacred to you. But you have a space where you have, uh, that's your grass hut. That's your space that you will return to. And even if it's just 10 minutes, every day, whether it's in the morning or the evening, to just take that time to just be there. That's what I think building this sacred space is about, building this grass hut. My own experience is that having an everyday quality to it is really important. You can sit for 40 minutes, great, but if you've got to take the kids to school or you have to get to work or whatever it is, just 10 minutes. 20 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever, where you just give yourself the space to take this particular period of time and just be there with whatever comes up.

[90:57]

It's not about matter of having the right kind of mental space. It's just to put your body there, to sit up right as best you can, given the limitations of your own skin bag, and just to be there and to allow yourself that rest. So that's what I'd recommend. Yes? I've been involved in this dance for like probably 20 years now. Being attached and not attached to it at all. Being in the world and not out there. Sometimes I'm totally in the world and I'm suffering. So I kind of, I go back and forth. That's the rhythm. We got rhythm. What seems to happen is when I get I get dizzy.

[92:01]

We get dizzy, yeah. So to take that space to not give up and relax completely. and let yourself get dizzy and just keep sitting, keep dancing. So just to continue to try and find your own grass hut, your own space where you can be present and observing yourself and to see what you just described. I mean that's testimony, you know. And it's not that there's some perfect, there's no understanding that you're trying to reach, there's no perfect solution to this. We don't need a final solution. Just to be present in the middle of the dance, to observe the ways in which you get caught up in the world, to see the ways in which you come back and settle into your grass hut, whatever it is. Not to get caught up in that either.

[93:07]

And how do you find that balance? So the harmonizing of difference and sameness, the harmonizing of the realm of the multiplicities of the world, of the diversity of the world, all the distinctions and the emptiness of each breath, you know, the practice is about that harmonizing and it's endless. And if you ever reach some point where it feels like you're in perfect balance, your friend next door or somebody is going to bring you their problems. So the point is just the dance, to enjoy the dance. Get into the process. See that this is endless and it's beautiful. And we're not doing it alone either. You can't do it alone. that we're all doing this together and that there is support and help. There are friends, spiritual friends, guides, models, ancestral teachers all over the place. And find nourishment where you can and help nourish others.

[94:08]

I think most people feel that there isn't a dance like that. They're not aware of it. This is the worldly people it talks about when it says places, worldly people, their realms, worldly people. Of course, we're also all worldly people, right? So we also can forget, all of us, and do forget. But when we come back and we remember about this space, this grasshopper, Any last comments or questions? We have a little bit of time before lunch. Hi, Michelle. I guess this is a variation on that. I, for the last couple of weeks, have been savoring something that feels like the beginning of a poem that you shared. Just feeling really, being able to savor every day, cluttering around, because I left my job

[95:14]

Relax completely. Well, I think the point is to relax completely in the world. Right. It's hard. Yeah. I don't remember getting to this feeling before and not realizing that I wasn't there. It's like when you find the room, you feel like how out of the room you were. And I was even thinking about, you know, even if I were to come to the event center and follow the schedule, Yeah, I've got to hurry up and get there so I can relax completely.

[96:17]

Yeah. Sure. Yeah, that's right. It's more testimony. Thank you. Yeah, you should all be congratulated because you're all somehow, by the virtue of the fact that you're here, you're involved in this dance already. So congratulations. Thank you. Welcome. This is your life. And before I forget, I just wanted to, I know you won't be able to see it so well back there, but I have a photograph of the rock where Sheketote built this hut that somebody took in China. It's still there. If you want to come up afterwards and see it.

[97:13]

@Transcribed_v004
@Text_v005
@Score_89.61