I'm talking about Sangha, and traditionally, as I was saying, Sangha's four monks, but, any four monks, but now it's community of practitioners. So we have the Ancient Dragon Zen Gate Sangha. And in some sense, everybody is equally part of Sangha. There are various positions, and traditionally, Sangha is defined in terms of seniority, not necessarily in terms of ability or class background or any of those things. And we all have Dharma positions. So there are various positions in the Sangha. So Eshen is the Tanto, or practice leader. Dylan is the Ino. Jerry will be the Nyuina, head of the meditation hall.

[01:07]

Today, Hōgesu is the Doan. Doan is the Kōkyō. Doan takes care of the bells and timing. The Kōkyō does the chanting. So there are various positions in the Sangha, but ultimately our Dharma position, which a term Dōgen uses a lot, is our situation in this life. our position, our current position, the situation of our awareness, our being, all of the causes and conditions that lead us to the situation in life and in society that we're in now. And of course, that's always changing. So in Sangha, we support each other. But I want to talk about how Sangha is post-pandemic.

[02:10]

Of course, we're still not completely finished with the pandemic. Here at Ebenezer, everyone's wearing masks, although the speaker doesn't wear a mask. And we've all been vaccinated. But we are now meeting in person. And it's wonderful sitting here in this strange room at Ebenezer. Those of you who are in the Chicago area and can make it to have an easier Sunday morning or Monday evening, I encourage you. It's this strange long room. I'm sitting at the far end from the door. And I don't know if you can see on Zoom, but we have these pillars on the left side, which is suspicious in some ways. I was asked, what is the meaning of Buddha Dharma? And he said, ask the temple pillars. And Dogen talks about how it is when the temple pillars become pregnant. So the pillars, these blocks of wood along the window side, are soaking up the Dharma as we sit here.

[03:24]

now people on Zoom. And this online Zoom practice has been, was our only way of being together for a couple of years. Now we're also some of us in person and all Sanghas and I think many groups and institutions around the country are experimenting with hybrid Can you still hear me on Zoom? I can't see everybody. Okay, so anyway. So I wanna talk about this situation we're in. So some of us are here in this room in Ebenezer Church in Chicago, and some of us are joining us online.

[04:34]

And I think it's wonderful. And I think both are equally part of Sangha. We have people from a distance. We have people today from California, and I'm not sure where else, on Zoom. People joining us from all the way down in Hyde Park. Someone joining us who, I don't know if you're in Sweden now or in Chicago, but he has joined us from Sweden. So, in some ways, this situation of meeting online and now both demonstrates interconnectedness. We're all part of this one, Sangha. And our job is to support each other. And it's not better to be here in Ebenezer or better to be here on Zoom.

[05:41]

We're all here in the way we can be here. So we have to appreciate all of it. We have have this great lesson now in how we're all interconnected and how all beings are interconnected. This has been true forever, but now it's more dramatically clear to us. We have founding members who now join us from Michigan and Los Angeles and Denver. So, And actually, a third of the monthly supporters of Ancient Dragon are from a distance, distance outside Chicago. And less than half of the monthly supporters have been coming to Ebenezer.

[06:48]

So again, I feel like we're in this transition. And the point of this is to practice zazen together. this physical practice. So many people have expressed how wonderful it is to be at Ebenezer and sitting together physically, breathing the same air, being present together. And I think to do this, to have a hybrid, is the word that's being used, a sangha that is both in person and online, It's good that we have a base of people sitting together online. I mean, in person, excuse me. It's good that we have this base of people sitting in person together. And part of our job is to support the people who are online. And vice versa.

[07:50]

And we're all supporting each other to practice. We're all supporting each other to be present and upright and face the wall, face ourselves, face reality. Whatever portion of wall or floor or whatever is in front of you, whether you're in Michigan or California or Cleveland or New York, or at Ebenezer Church in Chicago. So how do we do this together? How do we support each other? In some ways, that's what's happening. So there's nothing to say or do. But I think to kind of be aware of this and think about it intentionally is helpful. One of the things that is valuable about being in person is that

[08:56]

I sometimes walk around and make postural suggestions. So I can't do that on Zoom. There have been a couple of times when I've seen somebody with their head forward or something like that on Zoom, and I've mentioned it when I can. But the point is to sit upright and present, eyes open, ears open, heart open. So I want to just for the benefit of the people joining us on Zoom, and maybe all of you already know all of this, but I'll just say it. Part of our posture is to sit with chin tucked in slightly, back of the neck straight. So we're not like this or like this. Those are exaggerations. with somebody who had been on Zoom with us for a while, was sitting in person at Ebeneezer, and I noticed they were like this, looking up, thinking a lot, because that's what that reveals.

[10:01]

And then we sit either cross-legged or kneeling, as the one is, or sitting in a chair. But from the waist up, it's the same. Back the neck straight. And hands, during Zazen, in this position, held against your abdomen, so not out. If you need to rest them, you can put them on your knees, but just held against your abdomen. So this is old news for a lot of you, but we've had a lot of people join us in Ancient Dragons Zen Gate since the pandemic started. And I've talked with lots of them about practice and about the teaching. And so I know that, this is a wonderful song, I meant to say that to start. We have many talented, dedicated, caring people, both in person and online. So how do we support each other?

[11:03]

How do we practice together as Sangha is a challenge now. And we're working on finding a longer term space in Chicago to have a larger temple. a little larger than we had at Irving Park Road, or some of you were. But now we're at Ebenezer in this interesting, strange room. I'm sitting now in front of the altar. We've had the speaker sit over there looking towards the windows. But this way I can see all of you. We'll try this for a while and see how it works. So we have to try different things. We have to be creative. This is a challenge. People sitting together in person and around the world or around the outskirts of Chicago or whatever. How do we do this together?

[12:05]

So this is a time for creative possibilities. How do we interface? How do we connect to each other? How do we support each other? So there are things we cannot do in this space. We don't have a separate room for practice interview, for doksan with teachers. We don't have a kitchen to cook for longer sittings. We're doing half-day or one-day sittings here. People can bring back lunch. But we're looking for a space that has more of the traditional zenda functions. So again, this is a time for creativity about how we express the awareness of Sangha, how we appreciate each other.

[13:20]

So during discussion periods after talks, and I hope we'll have a long time for discussion today. I think we will. you know, people from online and people here at Ebenezer can comment and ask questions. And we're doing this together. Again, I think having a base of group of people sitting in person together is really helpful for those of us sitting here together, but also for the people on Zoom, but also the people on Zoom joining us from distant places. helps us to see our interconnectedness. So we have two members of our board who are at a distance, one in Cleveland, one in England. We have two assistant directors who are at a distance, California and Cleveland.

[14:25]

Part of how Sanka works, all the different positions that we need to keep Sanka going, requires that we all work together. In addition to Sangha as in Ancient Dragon Zen Gate, this particular community, there's also this idea of Maha Sangha that's been around for a while. The different communities, the different Sanghas, in this case the different Zen groups that interface, and that we're all part of that one Sangha. This has been accentuated during this online Zoom time. So people from other groups come and join us online for talks, as I said here. People in our Chicago agent, Dragon Zengade, are also going to check out Zoom opportunities in California and New Mexico and Minnesota and various other places.

[15:33]

This is healthy. We're all interconnected. That's the reality. Everybody you've ever known is sitting on your, is on your seat right now in some way. We are all influenced and affected by many, many, many beings. And also everything we do supports and affects people in many, many places. the way in which our practice ripples out and has effects that maybe sometimes we know, but a lot of times we just, you know, people who we've practiced with are going through their lives expressing something that is partly what Zazen awareness has given us.

[16:42]

So there's this Maha Sangha kind of tangibly now. We can appreciate how we're connected to other Sanghas, other specific Sanghas, but also beyond formal Buddhism, how we're connected to many other cultural leaders and supporters and helpers in whatever area we're interested in. So I see people here who are playwrights and improv performers And we're all influenced and supported by many, many, many beings.

[17:45]

So in the spirit of Mahasambha, how do we now appreciate this connection? So the great American Zen patriarch, Gary Snyder, said that Zen practice comes down to zazen and feeding the temple I think our work leader, Michael, isn't here in person today. I think I heard his name on Zoom. Anyway, we meet after our Sunday Zoom programs and do a little bit of cleaning here. When we have a larger temple, there's a lot more to clean. So, how do we take care of the temple? But Gary Snyder says, we take care of the temple, and it's up to us to define how wide the temple walls are. How do we take care of people connected with us through Sangha in California, in New York, in Minnesota, in Texas, a very challenging place now, and the Ukraine.

[19:03]

So we've had people join us from Sweden and Argentina and Czech Republic and England and Israel. We're more aware of things happening in different places of the world and we care about them. And so this is an interesting, challenging time. So maybe that's all I wanted to say, that we need to be aware of how we support each other, whether we're joining us, whether we're joining together in person here at Ebeneezer Lutheran Church, Chicago, or whether we're coming to Dharma Talks online through Zoom. How do we see that complexity and wonderfulness and dynamism and expression of Sangha.

[20:14]

How do we support that? Sangha is one of the triple jewels traditionally in Buddhism. Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. Buddha being awakened beings, but also the principle of awakening in everything. That we live in a world where Awakening is possible, and the world around us supports us in awakening, and we support the world around us in awakening. And dharma is the teaching, teaching of reality. How do we appreciate the teaching, help support the teaching? Then the third jewel is sangha. which enacts, expresses, puts into practice this awakening and this teaching of truth and reality of Buddha and Dharma.

[21:19]

So, I want to just express appreciation for the people at Ebeneezer and the people online on Zoom. My current intention is for our Sunday and Monday events to spend one of those at Ebeneezer and one of those supporting people on Zoom. How do we realize our deep connectedness and support? So thank you all for being here. We have time for discussion and I'm interested in hearing responses, questions, comments from people here. at Ebeneezer and people on Zoom. I don't know, who is the Zoom? Is David Ray, are you there on Zoom? Yes. I am here, Taigen. So maybe if you have a comment or question, whether you're on Zoom or in person, David Ray will call on the Zoom people and I can maybe see everybody here.

[22:29]

So comments, responses, Sangha utterances, please feel free. Jen. Speak up so they can hear you. Yeah, I'll try. It's Easter today. Yes. And it's also the middle of Ramadan. And it's also Passover time, they all come together on this at this one part of the year. I don't think it happens every year. But this year it did. And I believe that Passover is today, is right now.

[23:37]

Also, yes. And so, this morning on being, there was, Krista Tippett interviewed a woman, a Jewish woman, and she talked about the exodus and the complications there too, and brought it out of the realm of a children's story, that it was really, God was in the detail, so to speak, and not just the outlines of the story. And it was very interesting. So when you talk about teaching reality and the truth, I actually have trouble with that idea. because the truth, I'm used to people who hang on to their truth and I don't think it's true.

[24:49]

I don't think their truth is true. And yet, There's something about Easter that's very true. And there's something about Passover and the passage out of Egypt that's very true, even when it's used symbolically or metaphorically. I don't know much about Ramadan, except I guess it was when Muhammad was brought up to heaven and they don't know which day of the month it was, so they celebrate every day of the month of Ramadan. So I'm looking at it, and I'm thinking, it's all true if you interpret it right. And how does, for example, what I consider to be a metaphor of Jesus rising from the dead and being alive again, how does

[25:56]

How does that relate to what's true? And so to me, this is a constant question, Anna. I'm just bringing it up. That's all. Thank you. That's a basic dharma teaching that Jan has just given us. And of course, we know now in our society that the very idea of fact or science is under question. What is reality? What is true? Is the basic question. And Thich Nhat Hanh says that right view means not to hold on to any particular view. So we have to be open to listen, but also we have to use our sense and use our awareness from our practice to So yes, all of the stories of all the religions have something that is true in them.

[27:09]

Yes, Jesus rising, slaves escaping from slavery into freedom from Egypt or from America, wherever. All of these stories help us to see some aspect of the truth. But there are, you know, it's possible to believe in something that's as true that is obviously not. So now we have in our country book bannings and people trying to deny history. stop people from studying our history because it might be, you know, painful to someone to actually learn the truth of, for example, slavery and racism and Jim Crow and lynching that is so much a part of United States history.

[28:17]

So, truth and reality is a question. It's about questioning, it's about paying attention. So in our Zazen practice, the sixth ancestor, in some ways the founder of Zen in China, talks in his sutra about the oneness of Samadhi and Prajna. When we settle deeply, as we can in Zazen, insight arises, Prajna is insight. which is translated as wisdom. But we see something. And that means being willing to see things freshly as we, day after day, settle into Samadhi, into deeper awareness. So maybe the most important instruction

[29:24]

for Zen practice is just to continue, just to continue showing up in this body, heart, in this uprightness, in this concentration, and to pay attention to what's real. And, you know, listen to others, but we don't have to take on what everybody says, but we have to listen and learn. And then, Our practice off our cushion in our everyday activity is just to express the reality we see in our life. So, Dharma is challenging. What's real? What's true? And maybe it changes and maybe there's not one ultimate reality. How do we see wholeness and appreciate all of it? Appreciate the truth that's at a distance, appreciate what's right here.

[30:33]

And Dogen, the 13th century founder of Zen in Japan, who I quote often in his teachings, often says, Please study this. Please look at this. Please investigate thoroughly. So our practice in Zazen and as Zen practitioners is to question truth, as you have, Jen. What is true? And we can learn from everything. It doesn't have to be just Buddhism. How do we learn from everything in our world, in our society, in our life? So thank you, Jim. Other comments, questions, responses, please feel free. Yes, is that Argenis? Yeah. Hi, great to see you. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Very good. I think that... And louder so the people on Zoom can hear, please.

[31:36]

It's interesting, the conversation, because one of the things that I have confronted a lot is that I have a hard time identifying with one particular philosophy or religion. I'm grateful that I've always had meditation to be a part of because it's been like the identification of one religion has, I feel, limited. So I had, I was before here some time where I was doing with another group. I was the in charge of the sacred path. One of the things that they required for me to become a Buddhist. But I had done all the levels of this program, so I was the person that was qualified to continue.

[32:44]

So it became very rigid in terms of encouraging me to become something that I couldn't because of my own way of really being open to absorb, not just from Buddhism, but from other religions and other cultures, that had enriched my life very much. And I felt like I was kind of like confronted with this fact that I needed to become a Buddhist. And I really, though I was very appreciative and I have always been appreciative of Buddhism, the main thing for me has been meditation and the focus of meditation itself. And at that time, when I joined that group, The focus was very much on meditation, but then it started transforming into becoming more like a rigid and a dogma of Buddhism. So I had to step down. But the thing is, I guess the point that I want to make is that Um, I, I, I feel open to everything and to learn from everything.

[33:51]

And I feel like, uh, I was really sick at one time and a priest came to my, uh, room. I had pneumonia. Uh, can you hear him on zoom? Yes. Yeah. So, uh, uh, the priest came and, uh, he looks at my shirt. He said, um, Oh, I noticed that you don't have any, uh, religion. down and I said to him, because I don't have one. So how would you raise as a Catholic? So when do you walk away from the Catholic church? And I said, I didn't, I expanded it. So he didn't understand what I was trying to say. It's like, you go to an orchard and you enjoy the apples, you enjoy the orange, you enjoy, you enrich yourself with all these different cultures of fruits in this orchard. So, but anyway, but all I wanted to say is that to find the truth and to be very, actually, what is the word I want to use?

[35:05]

It's like question everything. Thank you, yes. You know, one of the problems with religions, and actually with spirituality and philosophy and, you know, all of it, and the questioning process itself, is that sometimes people find something that seems to have answers, and then they get stuck on it, and then they build institutions about it, and then it becomes dogma, and it's a problem. So... You know, I'm officially a Zen Buddhist priest and a Zen Buddhist teacher, but on some level I don't care about Buddhism, you know? I care about awakening. I care about helping suffering beings. I care about supporting people who want to practice, who want to look at the truth, who want to physically sit upright and be present.

[36:08]

We can find many sources for that. One of my favorite poets, William Blake, said, anything that can be imagined is an image of the truth. So to listen to other traditions is helpful. Some Zen teachers get very possessive of their students. hear any other teacher or any other tradition. And I feel the opposite. I mean, it's great for those of you who are here and helping support Ancient Dragons Zen Gate, all of you are, but also please go listen to music, watch movies, read books. look at the world and listen to things that you might hear from Catholic priests or Sufis or Muslims or Jews or, you know, all traditions, so-called religious traditions, but also cultural traditions, you know, can be supports for the truth, for reality, for your life.

[37:29]

So, And then the other side of it is that, you know, religions create institutions and those institutions that have human institutions, you know, need to perpetuate themselves. So, you know, then you can have dogma and limited perspectives and try to enforce some teaching on others. Then you have crusades and pogroms and all kinds of terrible things. So how do we see Mahasangha as all of us practicing together, looking at truth, investigating, not trying to erase history with bad books, but open to looking at how we got here. So thank you so much, Your Highness. Other comments?

[38:32]

Anybody on Zoom? I will pipe up and call on myself. This is David Ray. Taigan, thank you. Thank you for that talk. And I'm really appreciating the warm, intimate space of sharing that your talk has opened up. I'm aware of something today that surprises me, and that is that, so I'm sitting here on Zoom, experiencing the Zoom hybrid experience, and it feels warm and intimate to me today in a way that I haven't experienced before. Up until now, I've found the hybrid experience to be, I don't know, just harder to participate in than either in person or on Zoom. So I first came to Ancient Dragon in January 2020, and for me it was kind of an immediate feeling of both homecoming and home leaving in a way that surprised me.

[39:39]

Most of my life was in connection with Abrahamic religion, and I'm grateful for all that I got from it. You know, like there are people sitting in Ebeneezer who were among the first people I met when I came that time. But they're a really loud noise. I'm hearing a really loud, like, ocean roar. Can people hear me? I don't know. Anyway, all of that is to say that it's really amazing the way that Sangha keeps, I don't know, keeps being brought forth in new ways. I'm one of those people who likes Zoom, but I wasn't sure about Zoom Vibrant. And this really feels like Sangha sitting here, and I'm super grateful for that. Thank you. Yeah, that's part of what I'm feeling is, you know, that the people sitting in person are wonderful, and the people on Zoom are wonderful, and we have to respect the whole thing.

[40:50]

and we're not separate really. And I think it's possible to feel like people on Zoom are just, you know, sitting in their room and looking at this computer screen and not really here practicing. We're all in this together. And so I'm really happy that you feel that. We have to support that. And we have to also support people to come experienced Ebenezer. So, you know, I think that most of the people who used to come regularly to Irving Park, to our wonderful temple, back in the old days before the pandemic, most of them have not been at Ebenezer yet. So if you're one of those and hear me, please come and check this out. But also please feel free to join us by Zoom. We have to, I think in this new situation we have to widen our idea of practice in Sangha.

[41:56]

That Mahasangha is the reality now. Other comments, responses, questions? Other opinions? Yes, Bo, hi. Hi. I've been thinking, you know, because of this talk today, you know, can't help but notice that, you know, some people I haven't seen now in a couple years that I was used to seeing pretty frequently before, right? Yes. And, you know, sort of being like sad about that a little bit, you know, because there is a family aspect to this that I really appreciate that feeling.

[43:00]

And so I'm wondering, how to think about some of the people that you don't see as much now, you know? I think in our practice, or I gather, you know, it's not like you don't wanna be, I don't know, you don't wanna push people too much, right? Like to practice, I don't think that's appropriate necessarily. But I guess, yeah, just that question of, How does it think of, you know, people have various reasons I know for not being here. And I'm sure 100% legit. But I just, I also miss those people. And so like, just how to think about that a little bit. Yeah, I think family is a good example. I mean, I think this is a family. And, you know, people are part of our family, whether we see them or not.

[44:04]

One of the gifts of Zoom is that some of the people who are part of, kind of founding members of this family of ancient dragon, I don't know, I can't really see that many people on the Zoom, I can only see a couple, so I'm not sure who's here, but for example, Nathan in Michigan, and David Hill in Denver, and Amina in Los Angeles, never stopped being part of you know, Ancient Dragons Endgame. But now they're coming through thanks to Zoom. And Arhenes and Al, I haven't seen you in a while on Zoom either. And I know there are people who don't like Zoom. There are people who like Zoom like David Ray, and I like it, but you know, for certain things. Anyway, it's great to see you, and I've thought of you. It's not like I thought you had left. It's just that we're all here in different ways. How do we have a wide view of how this family works?

[45:08]

And you know, family is a good metaphor. You know, in the sutras they talk about sons and daughters of good family. Sons and daughters of the Buddha. So we're all here as children of Buddha in some way. Each in our own way. And it's not that there's one right way to do that. each one of you who I can see here, and the people on Zoom who I can't see, I can't tell you how to be Buddha. And yet, you can explore. Dogen says, to study the way is to study the self. This goes back to what you were saying, Arhenius. To study the way is to study the self. So that's really our practice, just to study the self. Look at, and the complexity itself, and all of the different family members of this self.

[46:08]

And then Dogen says, when we study the self, we forget the self. We don't get caught up in our own ideas and our own prejudices. We can open up to wider self. So we drop off then our limited body-minds and see this wider possibility. So all those people you're missing, Bo, are still here because you're missing them. I recently heard, saw in a book about grief is, grieving is love. That when we have a loss, when we grieve for somebody or something that has passed, our grief is an expression of our love for them. We grieve for the people who've, all the people who've passed in this terrible pandemic, all the people who are lost in, you know, the Ukraine and other places, where there is war and genocide, Yemen and Western Sahara and so forth, so many.

[47:33]

But this is how we love the world and love our species and maybe even love all the other species, some of whom are going extinct. So how do we, so thank you for missing people, Bo, because that means they're here. Other responses, anybody else on Zoom? Maybe not. We're still working out our technology. I can only see two of the people on Zoom at this point. Anyway, anybody else here? Comments, responses, questions? Other viewpoints, because we have to always be open to other viewpoints. What is Sangha?

[48:42]

What is practice? What is reality? What's true? We need to keep asking, questioning. And, you know, not in a way that is debilitating, because that's possible. We can doubt things that feel like nothing is true. How do we... We have to see our... Studying the self means seeing our own truth, what is true for us, but then listening to other perspectives. Jeff, yeah? What you said just reminded me of the big circus guy, Barnum, Bailey? Probably Barnum. Probably, this is from Barnum. He said, it's so much more easy to bamboozle somebody who believes nothing than it is people who believe something.

[49:48]

It's just what you just said. Yeah, Zazen is about, not some idea that we believe, but that we learn to trust this body-mind, this heart, this awareness. We come back to the discomforts of Zazen, physically sometimes, emotionally sometimes, but just be present in the middle of it and trust that. And then look around and hear what others have to say. Open to learning. Anybody on Zoom, any comments or questions?

[51:08]

Responses? Well, maybe we're...

[51:19]

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