The base of our thinking is oneness, and that oneness will be divided into yin and yang. There is no yin or yang or seeming or reality, quite separate element. Originally it is one element, and yin or yang is two sides of one element. So we catch our things in the picture of yin and yang, or seeming or reality.

[01:06]

That is just a picture of one reality. We don't think here is seeming and here is reality, or here is yin and here is yang. Yang is better than yin, or yin is more powerful than yang. We don't think in that way. And our world will be divided into yin and yang, will be divided. Our world will be divided into, but temporarily we can divide it into.

[02:09]

But it does not mean our world consists of yin and yang. Yin plus yang is not our world. But we tentatively divide or analyze our world into yin and yang. Do you understand the difference? So it is the difference of the base of the thinking mind. Your thinking mind is based on duality, and our oriental thinking is based on more oneness. So, even though we use this kind of formula, this is a picture of reality.

[03:22]

Just a picture of reality. We understand reality in this way, that's all. It does not mean there is form and color. Emptiness, something which is called emptiness, and which is something called form. Form and emptiness is originally one. But because of our rigid, limited thinking mind, or to destroy our thinking mind, we use this kind of tools. This is a tool to destroy our thinking mind. Oh, by destroy I mean to be free from thinking mind. And tonight I think I have to spread this one.

[04:39]

Form is emptiness. Excuse me. Form is form. When we call form, there is nothing but form. Form, world of form only. After we understand, accept the formula of form of emptiness, and emptiness is form, and emptiness is emptiness, we will reach the understanding of the world of form only. I think you will understand the world of form only.

[05:48]

Actually, you know, whether you understand Buddhism or not, maybe we are actually living in the world of form only. But this form includes thinking mind too, everything, physical and spiritual, whatever it is. But we think it's the world of form only. So actually we live in the world of form only.

[06:58]

But there is a difference between Buddhists and non-Buddhists. Buddhists also live in the world of form only. But there is a difference. The difference is Buddhists understand form is emptiness, and emptiness is form, and emptiness is emptiness, and form is form. But usual people understand, do not understand emptiness is form, and form is emptiness, and form is form, and emptiness is emptiness. That is the difference. Usual people, in short, do not have any experience of Dazen practice,

[08:02]

any experience of stopping thinking mind to reach the world from emptiness is emptiness. So, for usual people, you know, to lose something is very discouraging. Like the old Indian woman who happened to see in her mirror no head. She couldn't see one morning her own head in her mirror, so she was very much discouraged.

[09:04]

We Buddhists will not be discouraged, even though we die, because we know form is emptiness. Originally we are empty. Originally we are not here, because we are changing moment after moment. I am here, but tomorrow I shall be quite different person, because I am changing always into something else. I cough a lot tonight, but I may not cough tomorrow morning. So, I am not same person. So, I die in two days, Suzuki, and new Suzuki will be born in tomorrow morning.

[10:14]

That is our understanding of ourselves. That is the difference. But, I am right here, and I am doing something. I am talking to you, and you are listening to me. So, we are involved in same activity. So, we are doing same thing, but our understanding of life is different. Actually, difference is whether you understand our life in this way, which five ways, or which one way is the difference.

[11:18]

Usually we understand things. As I said, form is form. I am I. Table is table. Fire is fire. That is our usual understanding. And, that understanding is called dualistic understanding. So, in one way, western culture is enemy of oriental culture, or good husband of oriental culture, maybe. Enemy and good husband, same thing.

[12:22]

Not different at all. Good couple are always fighting, quarrel, get into quarrel. So, we say, you should not try to involve in quarrel of husband and wife. He may be very good friend. He is so good to continue their quarrel. But, so, whatever the relationship may be, it is all right. For Buddhist, it is all right.

[13:27]

For non-Buddhist, it is, maybe, big problem. So, we must be able to have various picture of same reality. Thank you.

[14:56]

Thank you. Do you have some question? By the way, can you hear me? You mentioned a part of the Shogansong that we should read to check our practice and I didn't hear what it was and I'm getting very curious. Check what our practice? Yeah, you said that if it didn't sound absolutely right there is something wrong with our practice, something that we should read some part of the Shogansong.

[16:37]

Do you remember? No, I don't remember. Shogansong? I think so, I'm not sure. Shogansong maybe... When? This afternoon? Maybe a month ago or so. Ah, when I was talking about counting breathing exercise. Hmm. Chakra. To check our practice. You said to check our practice. Ah, check. Yeah, to check our practice. Ah, check. To see if it's all right. You said that if we read it and it didn't sound right, if it didn't sound all right then there is something wrong with our practice. Do you understand? Hmm. You know, when you think your practice is all right, that is not all right. So you just, you know, you should just sit.

[17:48]

Whether it is all right or not all right, doesn't matter. Do you understand? But difficult thing. When you say this is all right or this is not all right, that is here, like here, not here. Hmm. So we should not be bothered by this one. Can this mind be perceived by this mind? By this mind? No. No, no. This is very limited mind. This mind is supporting.

[18:59]

This mind is supporting this one. This is branch office, actually. So he doesn't know what is going on here. Can this mind perceive itself? No. No. The mind perceives something is here. This is, so you call it autonomous. Autonomous. Autonomous nerve. Nervous system. And anyway, some American doctor, according to him, some American doctor put the emphasis on mind here.

[20:06]

I don't know what he means. Yes. Yes. Because now we are always involved in thinking mind only. And we have not much ability to free our mind from thinking mind. That is why. So those formula is to, you know, to destroy the attachment to thinking mind. This is a kind of thought.

[21:12]

Because we are intellectual beings, so the thought should be also intellectual. Or else it doesn't work. So we use this kind of logic, thinking formula. So this formula itself, themselves doesn't mean much. This is just thought, kato, something. Something which is not involved in too much. That is why we study this kind of thing. And because we are intellectual,

[22:21]

excuse me, because we are so intellectual, it is necessary, you know, to intellectualize our intellectuality. And to be free from it. That is why we study those things. But actually, if you practice zazen, that is enough. But what is real practice will be the problem. So to know what is right practice, also we use this kind of suggestion, tools. Hi.

[23:26]

Once you said in a lecture that if we are thinking while we are eating, we are not doing good practice of eating, but we are doing good practice of thinking. Should we, as beginning Zen students, try to avoid occupations that require using the thinking mind? Or is there a way to keep up our practice in jobs that make us think? And, you know, there may be, you know, if you, maybe tentatively, you can classify our work in two ways. Physical work and mental work.

[24:28]

So, physical work, like when you scrub the floor, we don't have to think. In that case, a student who is practicing on Ko and Mu, he can, you know, practice Koan study even in scrubbing the floor, because he is not using his head. And Koan practice is mostly, the purpose of Koan study is to give up thinking mind. Anyway, it is practice of mind. So you can do that, you know.

[25:33]

But when you are counting something, you cannot study Koan practice. So, in that case, I think it is, your practice should be to do your job, or to think only your job, without thinking some other things. That is, in that case, our practice. We say one thing only practice. Why this is practice is, when we are involved in only one thing, it is only one activity, only one kind of activity, then your mind will not be disturbed,

[26:40]

because you are not involved in some other things. So it means that your thinking activity includes everything. Because there is nothing but your thinking world at that time. That is, you know, the world of form is form only. There is no other thing. Just exist is your thinking activity at that time. So if that kind of thinking activity continues, that is the world of form only.

[27:50]

That is one kind of practice. Is it possible for Zen monks to disagree among themselves? Yes, it is possible. But, you know, at the same time, you know, you should understand. Some others are understanding too. You know, there are so many formulas, so you shouldn't be... Ah, you know. Although there are so many formulas,

[28:53]

it is... Actually it is just one formula. One formula will be, you know, understood in five ways. That's all. So not to disagree is maybe to agree with it. To agree with it may be not to agree with it. Or whether agree or whether... Agree or not agree or not disagree. We don't stick to it, that's all. You can say no, but that's all.

[29:58]

If we are constantly changing, is there anything that we are not changing? No, nothing. Nothing. If there is something, point out what it is. You cannot. This doesn't change, you cannot say. That is, you know, our understanding. You know...

[30:37]

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