So your voice is so melodic. You have to be like me. We had a board meeting. Can you hear that? Good. And we tried to find out how much it costs for the resident students. Actually, we added everything up and we got this tremendously high figure. And we decided that no one could afford to live here at that rate. But anyway, we arrived at that figure, and Arnie has a list of things that we used to make up that figure. And when we realized that no one could afford to live here if they had to pay for all the things that we calculated are necessary for them to live here, we thought about offering a standard scholarship to all regular residents, bringing the fees down to a figure that maybe would work. In fact, if you divide it up by just the number of people, it's pretty cheap, actually, $210 per person.

[01:10]

What's that? If you take the total budget of non-income producing, and you divide it by the number of students, you end up with... it costs us about $210 a month to support one person with food, at least at $375. No, we're talking about something a different way. To support everybody. Just to support everybody, about $215, $210, which covers health and medical and food and room, you know, which is about $2,500 a year, which is very inexpensive. But the fact is only 90 people pay, and the rest are staff. So 90 divided into that figure means it comes up to three hundred seventy five dollars a month. So then we thought about a standard scholarship to offer. Maybe you'd like to see if the things we use will probably arrive at that thing.

[02:16]

So maybe we could have that. Which phrase? Well, we thought about maybe if, in a sense, for a long time we've been saying, for maybe five years we've been saying at Zen Center meetings, even longer than that actually, ever since I first came to Zen Center, I remember the first meeting we had over at Sokoji, we said, we talked about at that time how much it cost for a student to stay at Tassajara. At that time I think it was something like three dollars and fifty cents a day it cost for a person to stay at Tassajara. But at that time, We didn't ask the students at Tassajara to pay $3.50. We said they should pay $2 a day at that time. So from that time, eight years ago or something, the assumption was that we didn't ask the students at Zen Center to pay as much money as it would cost for them to stay, to live at Zen Center, Tassajara, or here, this place that didn't exist at that time. So in a sense, we've always given a kind of scholarship.

[03:21]

So at this last board meeting, we talked about maybe articulating that now and saying something like what it is for most students. And so that's, it's a different figure now than it was then. Any other board members like to try to explain what we did? So as Big Roshi just said, if you add up the total expenses that go directly towards student expenses and divide by the total number of residents, you get a figure of about $210 per person. But a number of people here aren't paying. So if you thought of how much it would cost for the people who pay, to cover all that cost, and it's $375.

[04:22]

But that seemed too much for most people, so we thought we'd pick a scholarship to offer to all students to start with, and we thought that would be $215. In effect, we've been doing it. Our most recent calculations, but have not been accurate, was that it cost a little over $200 a month to support one member, living in, resident member. And we gave an automatic scholarship, without saying it was that, of about $60. $70 bringing it down to $140. We've had it at $140 for about, what, two years now? Three years? One year. One year? $140 for one year. What was it before that? $125. And so it hasn't been… anyway, it hasn't gone up. Maybe it's gone up in relative to what we said by inflation, I don't know.

[05:26]

Yeah, last year, the last race was about inflation, a little bit less than the inflation rate. The number of people who live at Zen Center on scholarship is about 70. The number of people who are not on scholarship, who pay at Zen Center, is about 90. So it's about 160 residents. You can't hear. There's about 160 residents in the three places, about 50 at each place and 90 paid. And the other 70 are either there are staff in some sense on scholarship in some way. That would be, yes, there would be a raise.

[06:35]

So that if we say 270, 375 is what it costs for each student, then if we would offer a standard scholarship of 215, that would mean we'd be raising the student fees for residents to 160. You mean if the total goes up then, does the, if the total cost goes up, then does that, that difference stay standard? Unnecessarily, that could be adjusted. The basic idea is just that there always would be. We would set a standardized scholarship so that maybe I just say regular, regular scholarship or automatic scholarship.

[07:38]

We'd start giving... Well, now we say some people are on scholarship because they're the tenzo or head cook. Some people are not on scholarship. In effect, what this would say is everyone's on scholarship. But it's a different kind... But the scholarship varies according to your job and whether you can work or whatever. Can you hear him over there? I have to yell? It's beginning to work. Question mark.

[08:53]

Question mark. What is the nature of this regular or harmonic sound? It's just a more accurate way of stating what we're actually doing. I think that we actually don't know much about the community, that we have come up with a lot of things out of the state here. And I don't think this stuff is looking at us in a completely open-minded way.

[09:55]

We're just thinking about what it is we have out of the state here in a variety of ways. The first time we've been able to really calculate it fairly accurately. And also it's, I think, more useful to, even if we keep it at $140, say, and don't raise it, which we should discuss now. Still more accurate, I think, to say not that you did it cost one hundred forty dollars, but it cost such and such. And you'll have a scholarship.

[10:56]

So the objectors. So we have we have figures showing how much it costs for each student. We also have some figures showing. The comparing to the last meeting, we had these various diagrams and charts and pies and so on showing the various distribution of expenses as compared to last time. And to also like to discuss the projected difference between what we expect to come in in the next four months between now and when get season starts and what we need. And to discuss various possible measures on how to get through these months. They involve, one thing is to ask, perhaps they discuss the possibility of raising the student fees, resident student fees.

[12:05]

Another possibility that some people came up with is, is it possible to Is it possible to cut in some way or redistribute the food we buy in such a way that we spend less money on food? Because last year, the year before last, we spent $68,000 on food for the three places. This year, up to this date, through October of last year, we spent $58,000. Up through October this year, we spent $90,000. So it's more than a third increase this year in food. That's partly. Yes, it's mostly. Yes, it's better this year. Dollars compared to ninety forty seven dollars. So maybe the difference won't be so great the next few months.

[13:22]

So we could discuss that. It was suggested that perhaps the people who are on scholarship could get by. Do you have that video, Ernie? Arnie? Arnie? Try it out. Move the screen.

[14:38]

Move the projector. I'll leave the screen back there. Move the projector. Are you people over there who can't see it? 453,400.

[15:59]

So, starting from the top, first is food. That says only $71,000 though, Arnie. So I said that last year was $58,000 and this year is $90,000. The whole year up until now. The whole year. Oh, excuse me. It says food for students, but it's actually all the students.

[17:05]

Right? So we're trying to calculate. Is that clear? It includes food all three places all year. Good evening for everybody. Good evening, everybody. Can we pick up? I'm excited for the target today. We're going to take off. [...] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fertility, 50,000 acres, not including the west end, is 1.4 hectares.

[18:36]

70 acres. I'm Okay.

[19:46]

Okay. uh so Okay.

[20:58]

Local travel, maintenance and repairs on all our vehicles. And we have 10 vehicles. We have 20 vehicles. Next is long-distance travel. That includes trips to Japan and trips to New York and so on for fundraising and so on. Next is vehicle... What? Oh, excuse me. That's $13,000. And local travel is $30,000. Long-distance travel is $13,000. Vehicle payments, that's buying vehicles, $6,000. Printing for wind bells and advertisement and so on. Announcements of various kinds. Seventy five hundred. What? Not advertising. Stationary, etc. Postage and shipping.

[22:44]

Two thousand library books. Fifty five hundred religious equipment. Eight thousand. That includes five thousand dollars for a bell and so on. The bell will be, by the way, that was a separate donation, so it actually shouldn't be in there. The bell, by the way, from Green Gulch will be poured by January 10th. So after that, sometime after that, maybe two months after that, it will come to Green Gulch. The small bell will be, it was mailed, a small bench like this, It's already been made and will be mailed to Green Gulch. It was mailed to Green Gulch on November 5th. But the big one like this hasn't been made yet, hasn't been forged yet. They're making the form, but it hasn't been forged yet. So that could that account for most of that eight thousand. Next is stipends.

[23:45]

Eighty three thousand five hundred. Eighty one thousand five hundred. Yes. That includes scholarships. That doesn't include the room and board and so on. No more. Yeah. This is just the money that's paid to students. It's actually paid to students for expenses. Fifty dollars a month. Fifty dollars a month. How many people said, well, not that many people get a statement. How many people get paid? I need the money. Where is the money person wants to know? Where does the money go to people that work at a lie or things like that? Where does that go? It's not. This has nothing to do with this. Yes. So people that are working in a grocery store and get supported for that or lie or the bakery and so on. That's that's not an expense to the students here.

[24:47]

So you don't have to ask the students to pay people who are working at the grocery store. Those activities themselves. Did you hear that? Part of this is projected. We only have 10 months. We project it to the end of the year. It's probably pretty accurate. Yes? How about the residents of Green Gulch? Is there anything taken out for the income aspects of Green Gulch? Taken out of what? Well, all income-producing activity, and the cost is issued on a separate sheet.

[25:49]

Medical insurance, 8,500. Honoraria, 7,500. Honoraria is like, it's like 5,000 times 1,000. I don't know if you can see it. Four hundred fifty thousand four hundred.

[28:10]

Well, like meals, meals and clothes. When I when I went east, I had to buy a suit. And I had to buy some dresses or shoes or something, you know, things like that. Can you like the newspaper story which said, outside the opulent brick Zen center, the barefoot monks? We can't send barefoot monks out. I bought this suit, but I haven't worn it since I got back from New York. I'm waiting for some occasion to arise. If anybody is my size, please let me know. OK. Forty one. Forty one. Can you speak up?

[29:12]

All right. Can you speak up for the overlapping of things such as the vehicle? Is that just the low sum of, you know, like, what it costs for a vehicle? Or is it the vehicles that are used, say, at the fire unit, the grocery unit, things that are directly related to it? Did you separate out vehicle costs, portion them for what percent goes for income? And they've already been separated out. Mark asked, like if the truck, if we have a truck that's used to buy things for the grocery store and also to buy food for Zen Center and for the Shelby Prison Center, then is there some separation from the overlapping use for the grocery store and Zen Center? The answer is yes, but they may separate it out. What? It's income reducing?

[30:13]

Well, it's something. Hopefully, it would pay for itself, but it's mostly a service, I think, to our sangha and let people know. I mean, we're not trying to... If we could pay for the printing, that would be... Yes, but also that money comes back then to the students too. When the money comes back, when the windmill goes back to Zenn Center, Gatineau doesn't go to income reducing except for income reducing areas. This list doesn't reflect where money comes from into Zenn Center. It just reflects where money goes out. I think that's what a lot of people's questions are. Well, what about the money coming in? That seems like another set of figures. This is just reflection. Did we say something else? What? Well, like construction of like a green gulch, most of the construction, aside from the Casa Harb cabins and the green gulch, most of the construction is a green gulch.

[31:17]

And it's construction of housing and various other kinds of basic housing, and so on. And then Casa Harb is repairing student housing and buildings. Yeah. What do you think it comes with it? What do you think? Why? Why do you think the contributions went up so much this year? David, why don't you change the angle of the machine? The contributions so far this year are about one hundred and thirty thousand higher than And of that 113,000, Arnie, 113,000 so far, right? I think October said 113,000. I think the contributions so far this year to Zen Center are 113,000. Is that anything besides Zen Center in general? Zen Center has received so far this year 113,000 contributions. So what's projected for the year?

[32:34]

And that's with no, in a sense, that's with no fundraising, no direct fundraising results. Is there some information on why people are giving so much money this year? Yeah, that's what I, I asked that and Ron Byman said, because we have so much outside activity, was his answer. You mean, go outside a neighborhood foundation or something else? That's one, that's some of the outside activity in the store. and the Green College for Vegetable Marketing. Well, now, do the contributions there include the Wheelwright Center? No. No, they don't include the Wheelwright Center. But, just in conjunction with the Wheelwright Center, someone might say that. They're all more or less unsolicited. We got one big contribution. Someone showed up, someone gave us a contribution for $2,400. Is that right? $2,500. No, $2,400 first of all. No, first $1,600, then $2,400. We were expecting another multiple of $800. We got $1,600 and then $2,400. And then two weeks later he came up to Rev and he said, Rev, the last contribution was generosity and this is just tax purposes.

[33:46]

He handed Rev an envelope and walked off. And then Rev opened it and it was $25,000. No, I'm pranked. What is the number up there? He said it wasn't generosity. He said he was very fortunate. Is that clear? What does that say, Arnie? Total receipts in the upper right hand? So the contribution you're expecting or how much? What's that thing? I can't read it. Is that one twenty three or something? No, it's maybe one thirty five. One thirty five. Yeah. That's just a projection from one thirty nine. We keep going the way we are. We can't assume necessarily. But if we did, if we did any more than that, more than one thirty five. Yeah. Now the self support on there. That's that's income producing DC self support so far is things like up till up through October.

[34:53]

This is self support. Two hundred and seventy four thousand dollars. That is it. OK. So. So far this year, with the guest season, with the grocery store, with Elias Ditchery, with the Green Gulch vegetable marketing, with royalties, with what else, Arnie? The bakery? What else? Anyway, those are some things. And things of that kind, we've received 274,000 through October. So two more months, it looks like it goes up above 300 to about 335. $335,000 for self-support. What's the self-support projection there? $335,000. What's that compared to self-support expenses? Self-support expenses are $154,000 at this time compared to $274,000. Lou? of a lot of the states in actuality.

[36:10]

Right. So the right. At present, the relative proportions are total expenses relative to self-support at one hundred and fifty four thousand. And the total receipts from self-support are two hundred seventy four thousand up through October. Mark? Also, I wonder, as Judy was saying, the scholarships for people working on the farm aren't included as self-support expenses. And also the self-sufficiency. What do you think of that, Arnie? Did you hear it? Say it again. As Judy has mentioned earlier, the people at the farm, who work on the farm, their expenses of supporting them with scholarships and stipends for those people aren't included as self-support expenses.

[37:48]

They're included as sensory expenses. and also people who are working at the grocery store or other places apply for a scholarship in the building. Their scholarships are considered at the rate of $140 per month, rather than $220 per month. So the actual expenses for self-support activities is probably higher than what we can make. Well, that's not quite, that's a little bit sort of, I'll turn things around, because it's not $220, really. Because 140 wasn't really what it was before, either. We didn't before. We didn't divide by the total number of people and arrive at 140. That's not the equivalent figure. Wouldn't wouldn't be 220. We've given a scholarship before. The equivalent figure is 160. That would be the equivalent figure before we actually were giving it. We were giving a scholarship before. So it gets higher, but it's not that much higher. And also, in my area, which goes into scholars and so on, and for people at Greenbelch, even though it's not accounted as expenses towards income production, I think it's accounted for already.

[38:58]

I mean, it's called, it's accounted for in expenditure. So it's not actually subtracting from, it's not like it's not accounted for at all. I mean, it's not a category, but I mean, Mark, I think in some cases we've calculated it fairly accurately. In other cases, it's not so accurate. And the two twenty and three seventy five figure, we only put into the overall Zen center calculations recently. But for instance, the neighborhood foundation, we've been using two fifty or three hundred for some time. So I don't think it's so far off, but we just have to refine those calculations as we go along. Why don't you go on? Anybody get a chance to look at that? Go over that. Honey, why don't you go over to read and explain?

[40:00]

Just point out the nets that figures. The Tassari guest season this year grossed $148,000. Operating expenses were $55,000. And the cost of the new cabin is considered as a guest season expense here. So the net is still $57,000, which is considerably larger than almost anything else that Zinzinger is operating right now. It was higher last year. What was it last year? The debt was higher. Yeah. Because there wasn't a cabin. But the cabin, if it finished by next year's season, should increase the income next year by $15,000. It's six more rooms. Perhaps more. Yeah, that's an example of those who are buying the car for your paper route. Yeah, it's something that you're just not using up in order to keep it.

[41:11]

As an ongoing business, it's something that will last. And produce more income. In most business analyses, you wouldn't include capital expenses, so you're figuring your net. Your net figure in this case would have been $93,000 to $92,000. This one was done earlier. I did this about a month ago. It looks like the Greengrocer will produce more like $50,000 this year, starting July 4th. And expenses would be about $40,000, but setting up and getting an inventory and floor and freezers and things. It's over $15,000 for a net loss this year in county capital expenses. Can anybody hear me back? Can you hear in the back? I guess so.

[42:12]

Does that mean buying vegetables from Green Gulch? Yes, in this case, it means buying vegetables from Green Gulch and buying bread from Are the students' salaries as likely to be included in the upper-beach business? Upper-beach business, yeah. Did you say that the Greco's Devotion had a loss of $50,000? It's like $13,000. It means the receipts are going to be $50,000. It says $42,000, and it will be $50,000. And then the net will still be a net loss. It won't be 13,000 net loss, including the initial investment as a as an expense. Is Greenville for all the vegetables sold? No, it's just what happens over there. Forty two thousand just in the store this year. Fifty thousand. That includes wheaties.

[43:12]

Includes Wheaties and yogurt. Twenty eight percent markup. The store is now will now bring in more than ten thousand a month. It's now bringing in more than ten thousand a month gross. The store is going to make our entire budget over the next year a million dollars. We still come out about the same. Does that have such a really large net? Yes, he's quite a large net. You're not expecting. Well, it does. Our guest season has a large net because no one takes any salary. The green goes to have a large net, too, if no one took any salary. But here in the city, you have to have a larger net next year. I guess it is. Is there any? Well, I guess next year that the store will have a thousand to two thousand dollar net after salary for the whole year.

[44:19]

So we'll come out maybe 15 to 20 thousand dollars a head per month. Yeah. Sally, Sally, Sally, Sally. Some people are getting paid by both. Anything that's paid to a student to support them while they're working. No, not. Well, I don't know what it includes room and board should. In this case, it includes room and board. But then that's how people get on. So they get more. Yeah. And that's how people are getting. So it includes the board again. Yeah. In this case, it is important that people are getting $40. It seems that nearly half the net revenues are from the two books. And can that be expected to be maintained in the next year?

[45:20]

At least at least. I think so. Really? Can people hear all these questions that are going on? No. Okay, so... You ought to repeat the questions, Arnie. Okay. People ought to say them one at a time. What was the last question? The last question is, someone pointed out that the royalties from the bread and cooking books are almost half of our net profit. Well, that includes Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, doesn't it? We haven't gotten anything this year because we're just finishing up that... Oh yeah, because they overpaid us a year ago. Yeah. And John asked if it looks like it'll continue to maintain that, and I would think so. Do you think so?

[46:22]

I think so. There's no there's no then mind to be here in Monroe. Not this year. No, because they overpaid us by several thousand dollars. Was it intentional? A mistake that I caught. OK, then what's next? There must be a bakery. It costs about a lot. Excuse me. I'm sorry. Century started this year, losing quite a lot of money. Now, these ones, these last few months, been around breaking even. And assumedly, the city had just grown too large, too fast. And now is a more workable size. Maybe it's a little smaller than the century. Yeah. Losing quite a bit of money at the beginning of the year and had a very large staff. Now the staff is much smaller and about breaking even. Or that that was maybe a little bit too small now and grow a little bit soon.

[47:26]

Bakery is about twice what it was last year in volume. And it's just about capacity for this kitchen right now. And we can figure about the ratio of two to one receipts to expenses. I think we're looking into, by the way, the possibility of another of actually starting a bakery outside here, a full scale bakery. It looks like whatever Tassajar bread is available, people buy. And then that doesn't seem to be enough in most places. So we figured that we can probably sell whatever amount we can make. So we think we're making more. And we're looking either for a bakery that's going out of business or somebody who wants to sell a bakery equipment and we can start a new location. We have a bakery at Green Gulch. A bakery at Green Gulch? Yeah. Probably, I think probably when the new kitchen is done, we will do bakery green lots for the truck. We could have a bakery green box that maybe covered the green marine truck groups and have a bakery in the city that supply the grocery store and people and the rest of the city.

[48:34]

We've only seen so far at most on a level of what, 70 or 80 or 100 loads of bread a day. We're going to have to buy that, right? I mean, what we've been dealing with on a level of about 100 loads of bread a day at maximum. And we think that we can extend it, you know, at Infinitum. Great. What? Why do we think we can send it so safe? I mean, you send this, you mean get sales? Yeah. Well, it seems to be we want, you know, five loads. Well, we always sell out the grocery store. And also. Yeah. But also, I think I think it seems to be the case that everyone sees it. But it says, I think you can sell as much as you can make of this. A number of people said that they have some business taking away from some retailers in order to put a store here. But there's some retailers want to have it. You don't have enough people. OK. I didn't even know that. What would it be? I think that on the carts around Marin County, people do.

[49:37]

Arguments do occur about the bread. You promise you save the bread for me. Or somebody takes the bread and says, I had that bread. The head of U.S. expansion came over one day to the grocery store and she said, You have to be. You have to be a friend of somebody who's in there to buy this bed. Could break down the expenses on life balance, third wages and most of the rest is materials and the space. Excuse me. It's based on a lot of space. This is a lie is about third. One third. Our wages and two thirds space and material. What space? Space is rent in this building. It's counted as an expense for life because we could use that if we live wasn't there, we could rent the rooms, move, et cetera.

[50:40]

We could get income from the room by people living. How many? What is the estimation? What's the what estimation on the ramp? Calculated six hundred and seventy five dollars a month for utilities. Calculated. It's a little complicated to explain. But for instance, if we didn't have the library there. If the library wasn't there, then the house would have been upstairs. There's beggars in there. You could move down, and no room could be used. So it's figured out. How many people? Now there's only about four people, so there's only about four times. So it's dropped from about 15 to not quite four. From 13 to not quite four. So yeah.

[51:41]

the month they're selling hasn't dropped in people portions so they get paid more than a dollar a month what a lot of people get paid more than a dollar a month a lot of people get a lot of people are on most a lot of people are on salary hourly real wage Virginia? Is Memcenter figuring on either in we use that For example, are we figuring on our subscriptions increasing in our pay-per-book? Or are we figuring on turning in our car, our board, or our motorbike? Or are we figuring if somebody gives us some money to get to break even next year, then we won't be behind in winter spring? Well, I think, for example, if we start a bakery, we'll have to buy some, put a little bit more investment in.

[52:43]

But I think once we had a bakery started, that's the last thing we thought of so far. A grocery store is pretty well, as it is now, it's almost as the people in the grocery store feel it should be. All they need now is a walk-in cooler, which isn't that expensive. They need a walk-in cooler so that they can take care of vegetables. overnight. Once that's done, which isn't that expensive, I think it could be done for how much? $1,500? For $1,500 we could do that. And I think that's probably the way to store it without expanding upstairs or something, which doesn't seem likely right now. That's probably all they need to invest there. But the Innocent Center could raise the $55,000 deficit that it has for next year. Would that be it from here on? If we raise the $55,000 deficit now, then hopefully we could put aside the guest season money to the following fall, winter, spring to cover the deficit.

[53:51]

However, that would take the pain out of these months, but it would not solve the fact that we're still 15% behind. That would only catch us up. So if we get caught up fine, but then we still have the deficit. There's two problems. We have a deficit, and we're behind on the wrong side of the guess season minus. So what we need is $150,000 revolving fund. That's 15% is contributions. 15% is contributions that we don't expect, that don't come in just anyway. I think as long as you're interested, we can keep going at this. Would you rather a general sum up to sort of give you a picture or do you want to keep going as long as you're interested in looking at figures? What do you let's hear a loud. I'm up. [...]

[54:51]

I'm up. [...] I'm up Yep, there it is. There it is. But it's not broken down. Lift up a little higher, Arnie. It's pretty. Can you see the bottom of the stars, the ears at the bottom? Wow. Fascinating. This what's what's actually winding up happening is more than we expected. We had this meeting early last year. We didn't expect to have this much expense or this much income. The difference, the difference there between expenditures and receipts is a small percentage, but it's still a pretty big figure.

[55:57]

So, what's that difference up there at the top between the total expenditures and total receipts? So, this year, we will get through the year it looks like. We got through almost all of November and December or December. The deficit between what our usual income and expenses will be covered by a large royalty check. Then in the next four months until April. We're wondering about that this year, as you see. Do what? Fill it or put it out? Yes. What do you think we had about your day dressed to look good?

[57:01]

Must be what we do. Provided that this would send out the knowledge. So maybe now you should, we should, so where we stand now is, don't turn the lights on just yet. What's your favorite chapter of the book? So the proportions changed a bit this year.

[58:23]

Last year, there was about 21% or 22% in five pieces of the pie. And now, facilities are a larger percentage, people a smaller percentage, self-support somewhere in between. And communications has dropped down to being about 15% from last year being about 22%. And other appeared. Well, can't you imagine something that's not facilities, people, communications, or stuff like that? All right, that's enough. Oh, so we had a deficit. I'll just try to sum up. OK.

[59:24]

With Arnie's help, we had a deficit when we first looked at it of about twenty five thousand dollars a month or somewhere in the vicinity of one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars short. This fall. That's quite a lot of money. We couldn't figure out where to get it. So, we tried to do, which I think we're, as I said earlier, we've been better able to do than we were before, looking at exactly, you know, ten finances, you should know, are very complicated. And then you're beginning to get the picture. Just in analyzing these figures, the proportions, weird. General Motors figures are simpler. They have one product, they produce a car, and they make pay salaries. Simple. This is much more like the state budget. It's much more like the budget for a little country or something, because all of our living expenses are in there.

[60:30]

And we have such a variety of ways of producing income, a variety of ways of spending. So we said, now that every year we get a little better, Of course, the accountants, professional accountants who look at our figures, they say, how can you expect any human being to learn this stuff? You need really first-rate accountants who spend their, you know, who maybe worked for Zen Center for years and years and years. We lose a kind of, even if that would be more effective, which I'm not sure it would be, we lose a kind of in-touchness with it by doing it ourselves and thinking through, because we get a very standardized procedure from somebody who wasn't a member. So, the fact that we expect some human being to, in one year, learn enough to take care of this, I mean, it's a very complicated job, and actually no one understands it. Ordinary accountants don't understand it because our way of thinking about it is this jello, you know, in which we're trying to think.

[61:41]

You see, we do not make decisions on the basis, and if we did, we'd be in trouble. We don't make decisions on, we get X dollars, and we're only going to do that, because we've never done that. We couldn't have done what we've done if we thought that way. Rather, we have this kind of intuitive thinking that such and such is necessary to do, and some of it we do for the outside community, some we do for ourselves. we have a sense of the energy involved. And sometimes we translate it into what people do, sometimes we translate it into what money. We have to translate it back and forth, and we have a sense of what's necessary to do to save, and as we were talking earlier, to move toward being able to be really self-supporting. I suppose if we all stopped and did no zazen and no services to the community, etc., and just worked and all had outside jobs, we could solve this problem very quickly. But we don't. And we don't ask everyone to pay $200 or $300 a month.

[62:45]

We say, oh, let's try $140 or $150 or something like that. And let's hope for the best on the rest, you know. Because if we made really tough decisions and say, okay,

[62:56]

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