Good morning, everyone. Welcome and happy new year. Can you hear me? Good. Uh, so I'm for new people. I'm Taigen Layton, the guiding Dharma teacher at Ancient Dragons Zen Gate. And I want to talk about the new year. I want to talk about it in terms of new possibilities and old possibilities and even ancient possibilities. So I'll start with Sangha or community in Buddhism. So Sangha includes particular Sanghas or communities like Ancient Dragons Zen Gate. And thank you all for being part of that. but also we sometimes talk about Mahasangha, all of the different Buddhist communities, different ways, different branches around the world, but also Sangha is a way of talking about all beings.

[01:07]

So one of our Bodhisattva precepts is to benefit all beings inclusively. So Sangha is a model for creating harmony, creating cooperation. So even when we disagree, we do that with respect, with radical respect for all beings. And Sangha is a way for our, for us to be able to see the world as in its awakening nature. the world as awakened and awakening. And Zazen too, with this practice we've just done, is about settling into something deeper, settling into some other possibilities. So we sit upright calmly and feel our breath and feel our posture and thoughts and feelings arise.

[02:13]

sometimes many thoughts and feelings. And in our approach to Zazen, this is not something one can do correctly or incorrectly. It's just sitting. It's just being present, facing everything, facing the wall, facing thoughts and feelings, facing ourselves and the world. So, both through Sangha and Zazen, we can see and get a taste of, at any rate, the wonder of nature, the wonder of the natural world around us. This wonder, both personally and communally, we do this together, each in our own seat, each facing our own wall. And through this, we see interconnectedness, radical interconnectedness, both traditionally in terms of ancient teachings like Indra's net, but nowadays we have an extra possibility for that.

[03:25]

So the COVID pandemic has taught us interconnectedness. people around the world have COVID or may have COVID and connect to this pandemic each in our own place and each in our own way. And until we have vaccinated or helped eliminate COVID throughout the world, it can come back to us. for example, now with Omicron variant. We also have this opportunity now during this pandemic through this Zoom window here to feel a radical interconnectedness. So I see people on this screen now from New York and Cleveland and Michigan and California and

[04:35]

Juan Pablo from Argentina, Patagonia. So we gather through Zoom, through this situation with people from all over the world. We're really interconnected. This is a, you know, kind of a teaching that ancient teaching in Buddhism, and there are all kinds of images for this, but we are, we see it now. It's our reality now. So talking about possibilities, one possibility is an economic system that we need to evolve into that's about sustainability and thriving rather than consumerism with the need for cancerous growth. and exploitation of the earth's resources for personal wealth.

[05:38]

But this is possible. This was possible in ancient indigenous cultures. It's still possible even with our modern technology. So we need to find creative ways to express cooperation, kindness, deep morality, deep ethics, deep values. This is possible. Sangha teaches us this. Satsang teaches us this, that we are connected. So I want to say this in the new year, but also of course we face many dangers now. The climate breakdown, which is happening in many places, many, many places with climate catastrophes.

[06:40]

We face the dangers of militarism and new nuclear arms race and the Afghanistan, our part, the US part of the Afghanistan war may be somewhat over, but we can continue to increase our military budget in a way that's not helpful. And of course, we face the COVID pandemic still and possibly future pandemics. So I've spoken about those things, but I want to speak today, particularly on this anniversary about the January 6th assault on the Capitol. I feel a responsibility to speak about this on this anniversary. to try and speak about it from a bodhisattva context. So we now have a violent white supremacy party.

[07:46]

It's no longer a legitimate political party, but we're all part of this event. The attackers that day, January 6th, a year ago, are not separate from us. Many of us have family or friends or relatives who are Republicans, and I speak with respect to everyone. But as it happens now, almost all the Republican elected officials nationally and even locally are part of this white supremacy violent party. I'm not talking necessarily about all people who voted Republican, just to make that clear. But we have to face this. So roughly 140 Capitol Police officers were injured in that attack a year ago.

[08:59]

Five people died. At least 13 people who participated in the January 6 assault are now running for office as Republicans. We know from emails recently released that quite a few Republican Congress people and senators helped and supported the assault, even as it was happening. So this white supremacy party has been persecuting women and people of color, non-white Americans. There was a Republican congressman from, I think, South Carolina, one of the Carolinas, who recently said that

[10:01]

Women are earthly vessels. So that's the function of women for this party or for some of the people on this party, period. So of course, then there's this attack on women's public health and choice rights. There's also been a great transfer of resources from working people to the extremely wealthy. This has happened during this pandemic and before. And it's not just Republicans who've helped with this. But anyway, what happened on January 6th was an attempted coup and that continues. So I need to speak about the dangers of that and speaking about the new year and especially speaking this week on the anniversary of that. So there's been massive voter suppression in many states to manipulate election results.

[11:11]

There have been violent threats against officials nationally and locally who opposed the January 6th attack. Threats against them and their families and their children. After the attack on that day, January 6, the Electoral College results that showed that President Biden was the president, were opposed by almost all the Republican Congress people. If in the midterms this year, the Republicans gain control of Congress, then whomever is selected as president in 2024, they can overturn, disregard the voter's choice. That's their platform and their policy. They are explicit about this.

[12:15]

So we're in the middle of this dangerous situation. I would say even that we have a danger now of fascism. My dictionary defines it that as a totalitarian government system, governmental system led by a dictator and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism, militarism, and often racism. So in this context, you know, a dictator is someone who cannot be removed from office by elections. And so who rules, quote, rules without the consent of the people. And if there's a Republican majority in Congress after the elections this year, they can choose who to, the Congress rather than the people can choose to whom to elect. So this is really, we're all part of this event and there's a real danger here.

[13:17]

Again, the attackers that day are not separate from us. And again, there may be people here who have voted Republican, and I'm not talking about Republican voters necessarily. So again, we all, many of us have relatives who if not, if they didn't support the attack, at least support the claims of, Biden being falsely elected. But we've all contributed to the conditions that led to this situation and all the other situations that I described. Aggressive white supremacy, racism, the climate damage, we're all part of this. But what needs to be said is that we can respond.

[14:24]

We can actively respond to all of this, to any of this. And exactly how to do that effectively is a huge question. And we don't know. And there's an old Zen koan that not knowing is most intimate. This includes the most possibilities. If we think we know what to do, then we're caught in some particular strategy or tactic or some box. So not knowing how to effectively respond is actually an advantage. We can be flexible. We can try things. Part of what we can do is to just speak about this as I'm doing today. And, you know, there's also wonderful Zen and Buddhist teachings about the wonder and illumination of reality. And I speak about those teachings as well, not just teachings, practices, but to speak about what's happening in the world is also part of our practice.

[15:34]

We settle into our connection to wholeness, to, the universal or the ultimate reality, but then we get up from our seats and go out into the world and try to express something based on that. So we can vote, we can lobby Congress people, we can even participate in street protests. Change is possible, even if we don't know how exactly to do that effectively. Change is definitely possible. So I want to return to a positive vision of what is possible in this new year. Sanghas are visions of our islands of sanity, of kindness, of creative expression.

[16:40]

We need islands of sanity. We need more of them to support caring and kindness in the world. And whatever way we each feel moved to do that, we each have our own ways of expressing wholeness and caring and kindness. And that makes a difference. It really does. So, you know, just in terms of the threats to our lives and the world now, you know, in terms of climate and the dangers of climate breakdown and, you know, all of the exacerbated mass fires, in my old home on the West Coast and the hurricanes and the Gulf and the East Coast and tornadoes in the Midwest. One of our Sangha members was responding to, she lives in Kentucky and she was responding to the people near her who were suddenly unhoused because of the massive tornadoes.

[17:54]

Anyway, and of course the, glaciers that are melting. So, you know, that's a serious situation. However, we also we have enough potential energy from solar power, from wind, from geothermal energy, to provide all the world's needs. We no longer need fossil fuels, and they're more expensive than the alternatives. What we do need to figure out, and this is what governments could be doing and corporations is how to make that transition and we need to do that quickly. But the possibilities are there. It involves conservation, it involves wise use of resources, but we can address the climate catastrophes and the climate breakdown. There will be more catastrophes, that's certain, but how do we minimize this?

[19:01]

How do we help sustain human life on this planet? That is the question. And there are many hopeful things happening. Young people are speaking up, lobbying for sanity, having mass protests in the streets as happened after the horrible murder of George Floyd that we all witnessed. So, A decent wholesome world is possible. And we need islands of sanity to speak for that, to speak for that vision. And we can be an island of sanity. That doesn't mean we have to agree about everything, but we can talk about it together. We can discuss this, but also it means facing the dangers.

[20:04]

not being afraid or if we're afraid. And of course, you know, it's very easy to be fearful now, but with all the things that are happening, but we can face that fear and we can face the underlying grief and sadness, which is part of the reality too. We have all been traumatized by the COVID pandemic in various ways. many 800,000 plus people just in this country have died from this. So many people have had many losses of loved ones, economic distress, but even those of us who are relatively well off in this situation, you know, being, um, in lockdown, being quarantined to some extent, to whatever extent. And I know there's a range of that among the people I see here.

[21:09]

But still, it's been a change. We've actually changed elemental aspects of how we live in the last two years. And it has been traumatic. And sometimes we don't realize how traumatic. We all have traumatic stress disorder in some way or another. How do we face this? I would say that Zazen and Sangha give us the strength to do that, but still we can be afraid and we can grieve. And it's important to grieve for this world that is so distressed now. but we can also look for meaningful responses and join with other groups that are responding in ways that seem wholesome and helpful. So this is a totally pivotal time in human history with all of the dangers I described and the dangers even to human survival.

[22:24]

Of course, there have been other times where people felt like this, other times when people thought the world was ending. There were plagues amongst Native Americans when Europeans came here. There were plagues in Europe and in Asia. Our great founder of our Soto Zen tradition, we practice here. Ehei Dogen, who lived in the early 13th century, in his time there were bodies littering the streets of Kyoto where he lived from civil wars. So I say this is a pivotal time in human history, but many people have felt that before. I can which is the most extreme pivotal time, but that's also a wonderful opportunity.

[23:29]

I've heard that Bodhisattvas everywhere in many world systems and distant galaxies and different dimensions of time and space are lined up waiting to be born into this world at this time. eager to be born here now. So bodhisattvas, enlightening beings dedicated to universal awakening and universal goodness and universal health and wholeness know that this is where they are most needed in our time in our place. This is where Bodhisattva practitioners, like all of us, can make the biggest difference to life, to the world, to our human species.

[24:34]

We have the opportunity to express kindness, to include all beings, to express respect, And that can make a big difference now. So basic Buddhist teaching is the law of karma, cause and effect, that everything we do has some outcome, some effect. We don't necessarily know that outcome or effect. We can't manipulate or plan it. There's no instruction manuals, but everything we do has some effect and everything that's happening even the dangerous situations are the product of many people's activities over long periods of time and short periods of time. So this reality of cause and effect, you know, the great Zen fox koan teaches us that we can't ignore that.

[25:45]

even if we feel illuminated by the whole world, even if we appreciate all of that, we can't ignore this. And being here in this time and place is such a great opportunity because we can make a difference. The future is not certain. So there are all kinds of, you know, I talked about the possibility of the next presidential election being determined by Republican Congress people instead of voters. For example, there are all kinds of possibilities of what climate breakdown will result in. And just to say that, the fossil fuel companies who have knowingly produced this climate catastrophe.

[26:48]

maybe want us to feel, instead of emphasizing denial of global warming and climate disaster, they now want us to feel like there's nothing we can do. There's no hope. You may as well just all settle in and wait for the end of times, you know. But that's not real. That's not reality. We don't know how things will happen. Change does happen. Change happens in the world. Many examples of this, where suddenly there's a great change, you know, in our lifetimes, or some of our lifetimes. Many times there have been huge changes that happen, that seem to happen suddenly. Of course, there were many, many, many, many different people acting with kindness and awareness, and responsibility who contributed to these radical changes.

[28:00]

Many examples. But first I want to just again talk about the truth of radical interconnectedness. You know in Buddhist teaching we have the image of Indra's neck. where from the Flower Ornament Sutra that will be, some of us will be reading from this Friday evening. The image of Indra's net for some, are there anybody, is there anybody who doesn't know about Indra's net? I don't see any hands, but I'll say it anyway. Indra's, oh, okay, there was one hand. Thanks, Aaron. Yeah, Indra's net is this image of reality in which there's this huge four dimensional, network of, and at the interstices, at the places where the net meets, there's jewels in each one. And each of those jewels reflect all the jewels around it. And all of those jewels reflect the light from all the jewels around that.

[29:03]

So it's this holographic image of how reality actually works. But we, again, we have, Other images of that now. I mentioned the pandemic and just the fact of the internet and Zoom and how we can all listen to each other and talk to each other. And I look forward to our having some discussion after I finish fairly soon. There are many examples of this and we're discovering more. So some of you know that forests have consciousness. Forests as a whole entity. This has been shown scientifically recently. There's these mycorrhizal networks underneath forests.

[30:06]

They're funguses related to mushrooms. And through them, trees in the forest can communicate, can send warnings of danger, and actually can share nutrients with other trees, even of other species of trees. So forests as a whole system, as a biosystem, in a way have consciousness and can respond to situations. This is really amazing and wonderful. It's far beyond our usual way of thinking. And it's certainly not something that's been reported in the corporate mass media, or not much, if at all. But the world is more wonderful than we have imagined. There's more interconnected. There's more cooperation. than what we usually think of.

[31:08]

There are very limited human capacities. A lot of Zen teachings are about this, that our capacities for awareness, our usual capacities, our conventional perceptions and intelligence and awareness is very limited in terms of the wholeness of reality. So there are lots of possibilities, these ancient possibilities and new possibilities and old possibilities. Again, um, change has happened in our lifetimes. Suddenly, very suddenly after lots of work. So many examples, apartheid ended in South Africa, thanks to sanctions and the work of many people. The Berlin Wall came down and so-called experts on German politics couldn't have predicted it just a month before it happened.

[32:16]

The Soviet Union collapsed, many empires collapse. Maybe we're in the middle of seeing our own American empire collapse. But many changes, gay marriage became legal. fairly recently, for example, in all of these kinds of changes even when they seem to happen suddenly, there were many people and many other forces helped to make these changes. So we're not caught by, you don't have to be caught by the dangers that are apparent in the world around us. Change happens. And how that happens, we don't know. It's not just in the realm of politics, you know, in the realm of culture, in the realm of just human kindness and changing hearts and minds, sharing visions of awakeness and of interconnectedness.

[33:26]

is part of how that change happens. And that's what we're doing here, just through our sitting practice, just through supporting Sangha with all its difficulties. So we can support wholeness. We can support healing. And again, we don't know exactly how to do that effectively. We can try things, skillful means in Buddhism, traditional Lotus Sutra teaching is about trial and error, making mistakes, but working together to try and help support healthy change and positive change and awakened awareness. And part of that is also just, you know, our sharing this together. So, I will stop babbling now. And I want to hear comments, questions, responses, reflections that any of you have.

[34:37]

Dylan will help me call on people. If you are visible, you can raise your hand. If you're not visible on the Zoom screen, you can go to the participants window. And at the bottom, there's a raise hand function, and we can call on you that way. But I'm really interested in any comments or responses that any of you have. So please feel free. Thank you very much and Happy New Year. So we've got Eve's hand is up. Eve, what do you have for us today? Eve, you're muted. We can't hear you. We can't hear you, Eve. Yeah.

[35:43]

OK, can you hear me now? Yes. Can you still hear me? Yes. Okay, good. Yeah, anyway, we think I agree with much of what you've said. But as a social scientist, I guess I feel like we, there is room for reflecting on how change happens and what we know at this point about how change happens. And I think maybe we could, I'm not saying all of us have to do that. I think some of us maybe have to do a better job of thinking about that. And I mean, and I think there is some convergent wisdom and some wisdom from different sources that comes to some of the same conclusions. I think, you know, Buddhist thinking for me and systems thinking do converge in thinking about emergence.

[36:43]

and thinking about how incremental change can sometimes lead to a qualitative change and what makes that happen. And interconnectedness is a big part of that. So I think, you know, fostering dialogue and figuring out ways to have productive conversations across difference, that that is one of the pathways desire change. And so I think from that point of view, that it is important not to, to demonize. And I don't, I'm not saying that you were, but I think when it, you know, when it comes to Republicans and the Republican party, maybe what we should do is try to support moderates in both parties, or at least, you know, try to support people that we feel can actually have productive conversations with each other.

[37:48]

Thank you, Eve. Appreciate that. Yeah. So I was talking about not knowing, of course, there are many things we do know. We're very smart monkeys, but, um, we should understand that beyond what we do know, there's this whole universe that we just don't understand, but yes, we should act on what we do know and rational mind and rational discourse is, can be a great tool for producing benefit. So thank you. Other comments, responses, reflections, everyone, please feel free, even you people. Brian Taylor has his hand up. Hey, Brian. Good morning. My question is about trying to be concrete about positive action. Frequently in your talks, you detail many of the crises of the day and you remind us that In our practice, we have the opportunity to face entities and to respond with uprightness in appropriate ways that are helpful to the world.

[39:01]

And you mentioned that one way of responding is to speak about it as you do. But my question to you, Taigan, is I wonder if by way of example, you might share with us what you do and other ways to try to respond to our times. Okay, well, I think many of the people here respond in many ways. So I'm not, you know, there's no one right answer. There's no one right strategy or tactic. So part of Sangha is that many people respond in many ways. And that's, I think that's helpful. But personally, I call and write letters to Congress people sometimes. I make donations even to some politicians who I think will be helpful. I try to stay informed.

[40:06]

I try and look for sources of information that provide a wider view of what's happening in the world. I haven't since the pandemic started, but I have at times marched in protests. I think people on the street make a big difference to politicians and the powers that be. So I marched in Black Lives Matter rallies after Aquan McDonald was gunned down in Chicago. And going back to the Vietnam War, I've participated in civil disobedience, which is really actually a wonderful practice of being respectful and calm to everyone involved. So those are just some of the things that I've done personally.

[41:10]

And also just to, share information. I don't know, I don't have the answer. I'm not, I'm not telling any of you to do any of those things. You know, we each have to find, find our own way to respond. I don't know, there's probably other, other things that I've done. I just modeling radical respect, trying to speak, respectfully to a cousin of mine who's a Trump supporter. How to listen to different people so that we can learn different perspectives and points of view. Anyway, that's a little bit, Brian. I don't know if you have any followups. Other comments, responses. reflections.

[42:12]

Hey, Paul. Hi. Thank you. Happy New Year, everyone. This is, of course, is the crux. This question is the crux of our of our practice. And the beginning point of not to know is, of course, the hallmark of our of our approach. Once you know that you're the possibilities are shut off to us. And And we also have to realize that we are part of the problem. We ourselves are part of the problem. Our intellectualism, our materialism, our dependence on the status quo is undeniable. It can't be helped, but we are part of the problem. We're not outside. We're not separate from the problem. indigenous people, or people that aren't intellectually brainwashed by the modern era, understand the trees talked to each other a long time ago.

[43:15]

I mean, it was not an obvious, I mean, it's obvious. It's not some breakthrough, a scientific breakthrough that somebody finally paid attention. But people have known that for the eons. So that we have our own indebtedness to the status quo that we have to think about how to deal with ourselves. If we do something too radical, like drop out of society and stop participating, we lose our voice. And if we participate fully, we get co-opted. It's not an easy thing to know how to deal with. I myself, I had this idea that if I was, if I lived an honest working class life, building, making, making, building shelters for people, that would be the most positive thing that I could do as a, as a, as a,

[44:19]

working adult, working human. But I ended up building palaces for rich people. And I got caught by my own desire for artistry and beauty and could not resist the offer to make something as beautiful as possible. So I fell prey to my own hubris in that department. And now in my retirement, My main practice that I practice is not wasting. So whatever I come across, for whatever reason, whether I buy it in the store or somebody gives it to me or I find it laying on the ground or it pops up out of the earth, I try to make full use of it and make sure that it goes on to be part of the ongoing coil of birth and death. Anyway. I think that we have Buddhism, Buddhism, the main person that we have to deal with is not our neighbors and not the Republicans or the Democrats, which I don't see that much.

[45:31]

They're blended in a way which is hard to distinguish sometimes. But ourselves, this is what our practice is about, working on ourselves. So that is the main element. And not knowing is a large part of how we start to do that. But again, Joe Cohen expressed it quite nicely, of course. Thank you and happy New Year's. Happy New Year's, Paul. Thank you. Other comments, reflections, responses? This is an opportunity to listen to each other and talk and share. Deborah Callahan, were you about to say something? Wasn't sure. I wasn't but I'm just humbled by the wonderful comments this morning. I find this not knowing thing very alive, and I'm really grateful for many of you commenting on that.

[46:37]

And I'm just, I am very stunned by the, you know, the overwhelming desperation and confusion that's existing in our culture. So I'm very humbled to all of you still finding my way with an answer. One of the things I'm connecting to is the need for connection. So I'm personally just making a practice of reaching out to family and friends much more frequently. And even people I meet as strangers. I read a quote, I don't know who said it, but the stranger you may not speak to could be an angel. So I often consider that and I just try to actually when I'm out, reach out to essential workers as well. But this is a very personal approach and thank you for asking me to speak, but I would really defer to all of you to speak. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Debra. I just want to respond to one word you used. You talked about looking for answers and I don't know that there are answers.

[47:42]

Or, you know, I prefer the word responses, respond, to respond. If we think we have an answer that shuts off new possibilities. So we continue to respond. Sometimes we get what seems like answers, but then if they're good answers, they raise more questions. So anyway, thank you, Debra. Other comments, reflections, responses before we do our closing chants. I think perhaps Erin had her hand up. Erin, hi. Welcome. Hello. I'm not sure I did have my hand up, but I have been thinking about your words. Thank you so much. You know, I think what a question in my mind is, you know, what it looks like to respond with radical respect, especially on an individual level, when you encounter someone, not only whose ideas are different than your own, but whose ideas you feel are harmful to the planet, to other humans.

[48:52]

What specifically does that response look like? Is it listening instead of reacting? What in this tradition and your personal experience does that approach look like? Thank you. Thank you, Erin, and welcome. Yeah, it's a great question. It's a difficult question. I think listening, I'll call on you in a second, Paul, but I think listening is most important. And, you know, if there's somebody we disagree with, trying to convert them or persuade them of our perspective, is usually not helpful. I mean, first one has to listen and then talk about the things that we have, that we may have in common. There's always something that we may have in common. And a lot of people who, um, are acting in negative ways are doing this based on fear and based on feeling, um,

[49:59]

disenfranchised, you're feeling ignored. So to listen is a really radical practice. The Bodhisattva of Compassion, as we've been talking about, Kanzeon, her name means hear the cries or the sounds of the world. So just listening is the first step. And then, um, trying to find things that we have in common, trying to really listen to what fears, what concerns, what distress people who differ from us have. Trying to convert people doesn't usually help very much unless we've already built a ground of communicating. So this is difficult. This is challenging. This is a very difficult practice. But anyway, that's what I would say. Maybe other people have other suggestions about. how we talk to people who disagree with us.

[51:07]

Paul, you had your hand up? Yes. Human beings are very sensitive creatures, even when they have thick armor played on to protect themselves from their environment, they're still very sensitive. So I've noticed this from my own personal experience, as well as watching teachers, various teachers in various different situations relate to people. And if you respond to somebody as if they are of the same status, the same importance, the same quality of life as yourself, so without any judgment, without judging them as being good or bad, or better than you, or worse than you, or just that is that the people pick up on that very subtly, it's very subtle, but people pick up on it. And I have seen people won over by it. by just pure empathy, just pure one-on-one, not just even because they're homeless or because they're a big shot or whatever, to treat them as if they're part of your family, as if they're part of you, as if you're not judging them.

[52:29]

I think that goes a long ways to making it possible for someone to relate Thank you, Paul. Anybody else? To continue this conversation, which is what this is, part of our practice is, again, to listen to each other, to share our perspectives. Laurel, were you going to say something, Kishon? No, I wasn't, but I will. I'll recommend a movie and a book. How's that? The book is called Saving Us by a woman named Catherine Hayhoe. She's a scientist. She's actually a chief scientist for the Nature Conservancy.

[53:36]

She's also a Christian, and she wrote a book called Saving Us, which is quite wonderful. It's about climate change. I mean, that's what she does. She says the most important thing we can do is talk about it, which I think is an important point in which we've been doing this morning. And she also says, just to respond to Aaron, There are 7% of the people have, she puts them in a category called dismissives, people who dismiss sort of aggressively the idea of climate change. She says, let's, let's, There's 93% of the people that we can be talking to, and let's work on those. So that was an interesting point. Anyway, the movie is called Don't Look Up. It's a pretty entertaining movie about the end of the world.

[54:42]

And if you haven't seen it, it's streaming, so you can watch it without risking your life in the theaters. I guess that's all I have, thank you. Kiyoshin, who's the author of that book, Saving Us? How do you spell her last name? Catherine Hayhoe, H-A-Y-H-O-E. She's Canadian, but she teaches in a university in Lubbock, Texas, which she says is the second most conservative city in the country. It's an interesting place for her to live. You know, she talks in Christian terms because she's very much a Christian activist, but pretty much everything she says translates to whatever category you can put yourself in. You're an artist or you're a scientist or whatever you work in your community and talk to those people.

[55:49]

It's One of the reviews I read of the book said, her writing is so sensible, it's hard to imagine anyone disagreeing with her, which is, it's really true. She just says the truth in a very clear and un, non political way it's not about facts about temperatures rising it's just the truth about how what's going on in the world it's it's pretty pretty good I think. Thank you, I also I saw don't look up this week it's funny in ways it's. I thought it was kind of too long, but maybe not. It's got some terrible reviews. It's got terrible reviews and people call it disastrous. My daughter hated it. We had an argument about it, but that might help people talk about it.

[56:54]

Well, you know, talking about movies is something we do here sometimes. But there was a comment by Michael Eric Dyson, who's, people may know, who's a scientist and an activist, and he called it a documentary. documentary film, even though it's got an amazing cast. Meryl Streep plays, I won't say she plays Donald Trump, but she plays a Trump character. Anyway, it's an interesting movie. Don't look up. Thank you. Other comments, responses, discussion? Oh, Eve has her hands up again. Yeah, I forgot. I wanted to recommend a book, too. There's a book called, it was written in 2007, and maybe we need a sequel now, but it's called Getting to Maybe, How the World is Changed, and it's written by Frances Wesley, Brenda Zimmerman, and Michael Quinn Patton, and about Canada.

[58:10]

I swear that there's more support for social innovation in Canada. Francis Wesley's Canadian, so was Brenda Zimmerman, who's unfortunately no longer with us. But they looked at what worked in terms of social innovation. And your point about not knowing, I think, is embedded in their title, getting to maybe. Thank you, Eve. I would... say that even in our society, there are a great many people who are supportive of social innovation. There are a great many people who are working to try and create wholeness and decency in our society. We don't necessarily hear about them in the corporate mass media. I'm not saying that Canadians are more moral or anything, but there's more government support for social innovation, and so they've got

[59:13]

you know, projects like where Francis Leslie works in University of Waterloo, which is what the Institute for Social Innovation and Resilience. Anyway, that's what I meant. Yeah, thank you. So anything else anyone has to share or offer or respond with or other book or movie recommendations, please feel free.

[59:39]

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