I vow to taste the truth of the Tathāgata's virtues. Good evening. Good evening. So why don't we start again by chanting. You have a copy of the text? Yes, I do. Great. So who would like to be Okyo for this? Song of the Jewel Mirror Samadhi. The teaching of us this has been intimately communicated by Gurus and Ancestors. Now you have it, so keep it well. Filling the silver bowl with snow, hiding a heron in the moonlight. When you array them, they're not the same. When you mix them, you know where they are. The meaning is not in the words, yet it responds to the inquiring impulse. If you're excited, it becomes a pitfall.

[01:03]

If you miss it, you fall into retrospective hesitation. Turning away and touching are both wrong. The word is like a mass of fire. Just to depict it in literary form is to revel in it, to defile it. Just at midnight, it doesn't appear at dawn. It acts as a guide for beings as usual. The soul can be installed. It is not fabricated. It is not without speech. It is like facing a jewel mirror. Form an image. Behold each other. You are not it. It actually is you. It is like a babe in the world in five aspects complete. It does not go or come nor rise nor stand. Baba-wa-wa, is there anything said or not? Ultimately, it does not apprehend anything because the speech is not yet correct. It is like the six lines, the double-split hexagram, the relative and absolute integrated, piled up then made three, the complete transformation made five. It is like a taste of the five-flavored herb, like a diamond thunderbolt subtly included within the true inquiry and response come up together.

[02:10]

Communing with the source and communing with the process, it includes integration and includes the realm. Merging is auspicious. Do not violate it. That's really real, yet inconceivable. It's not within the province of delusion or enlightenment. With causal conditions, time, and season acquired, suddenly it shines bright. In its fineness it fits into its facelessness, and its grittiness is of unbelievable location. Its breadth's deviation will fail to accord with the proper attunement, and there are sudden and gradual inconnections with which are set up basic approaches. Basic approaches are distinguished and there are guiding rules, but even though the basis is reached and the approach comprehended, Their eternity still flows, hourly still, while they can be moving like a stubborn cold, a trapped rat. The ancient saints pitied them, bestowed upon them the teaching according to their delusions. They called black as well, but Ernie's imagination ceased. The acquiescent mind realizes itself.

[03:12]

If you want to conform to the ancient way, please observe the ancients of former times. I'm about to fulfill the way of good and good, one gaze at a tree for a time. Like a tiger leaving part of his prey, a horse with a wide left hind leg. Because there is to face the original pedestal's fine clothing. Because there is to start a many different bear, a house, cat, and cow. Even his archer skill could be a bit arrogant. Face is broken, arrow points me head on. What has this to do with the power of skill? and begins to sing. The song woman gets up to dance. It's not within reach of feeling or discrimination. How could it have been a consideration in thought? The minister serves the Lord, his son obeys the Father. Not obeying is not good, not serving is no help. Practice secretly working within is no fool like an idiot. You can achieve So, last time we covered at various levels over the second half of this first page up to the subtly included within the true inquiry and response come up together.

[04:30]

And I wanted to take some time kind of just to review some of that more on the base level of the text. If you have questions or comments or about the five degree business, we can go back into that. And it continues to be one of the themes, the relationship between the universal aspect of our life in particular. But there's also a lot of just on the surface things here that we could just resonate with on an immediate level. Ultimately, it does not apprehend anything because its speech is not yet correct. It is subtly included within the true inquiry and response, or celebrated together. So up through there, are there questions that people have or comments? I'm sure we could spend more time discussing anything, but I just wanted to give you time.

[05:36]

Or actually anything up to there, any questions or lines that... Are there any lines that you have felt in new ways while looking at it in this class? A lot of you are very familiar with this text from chanting occasionally. I was trying to think. I couldn't remember and I didn't have a chance to go back and listen. I was saying something last week about it's not actually a reflection, it's not an exact replica. Or, you know, that I was using complementary. You didn't like that word so much and I couldn't think of another one. But actually, as I thought about it some more, I think it is an exact reflection. Well, there's the thing about mirror image.

[06:43]

I think that's what I was referring to. Left and right are switched. And then if the mirror is a little bent or something, you can get a funny image of things. Were we talking about that in terms of facing a dual mirror? And that's really a key line. You are not it. It actually is you. Say that again? The whole thing about you are not it. It actually is you. and form an image, behold each other, that kind of... There's a way in which everything is a mirror, or everything is a somewhat distorted mirror. Whatever comes up, whatever the world brings up in front of you is something that's showing you something about yourself. Just by the fact of our perceiving something, then it's giving us information. We can see the world as like a separate thing out there or we can see things as this kind of complex of interactiveness or interrelationship or this various kind of reflected inter-reflections.

[08:02]

So I think I was kind of thinking along, when I said that I was talking about that aspect of mirror that's not that part of mirror. Does that make sense? I'm not sure what your question wants to say. Right, well I think that I was thinking like when things, when you, when there's meaning, the reflection, what I was, what I think I was putting in last week is that things aren't necessarily direct reflection, that if they're meeting, that there has to be, it's kind of like a jigsaw puzzle or whatever. They reflect, but there's sort of like negative and positive space, and that's how it fits together. Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting. Because there's a lot of this light and dark, and we define light by dark. So yeah, negative space. So I was thinking of that one, and that, you know, exact replica or reflection.

[09:08]

But I think they're two different I don't think that that's what this is referring to, actually. Well, a lot of what's ... I mean, the stuff we were talking about last time, too, it's about duality. What is it like to live in the world of separation? So, part of what's happening in here is that it's showing you these different facets of the jewel of this mirror of awareness. So there's one level of it that's subject and object. We see the world as, I mean, the ordinary way of thinking and perceiving is that the world is an object out there, or the world is made up of myriad objects out there, and we do something to or with it or whatever. I was reading something today, and they were mentioning, they were talking about the mirror and one of the objects that the statues hold, kind of like bows and arrows, or conch shells and all that.

[10:12]

And he said that the mirror shows us the void, because what we see in there is us, and it has no substance. What you see in the mirror, there is no substance, and that shows us what actually is the case out here. Yeah, we're kind of... That was unsettling. Yeah. We're used to thinking of that as kind of secondary, or secondhand, or less real. A mirror image is kind of, or a reflection is kind of, like we say, a pale reflection, it's a reflection of reality, it's not a real thing, right? Or an echo is like, not a real sound, it's just a reflected sound. And yet, you know, that's what there is. That's the immediate. There's this way in which this whole text I think is working with what are the surfaces that we interact with in our practice and in our consciousness and in our awareness.

[11:23]

So I don't know, is the mirror image real? Or is the person looking at the mirror image real? Or is there some real person? behind your eyeballs, or where's the reality? We have lots of opinions about that, actually, or prejudices about that. I wondered if there was a connection. Because I think it makes sense to me a bit when you look into a mirror, you are not it, it actually is you. That makes sense to me. Obviously, I'm not this plain reverse. That's obviously not for me, I know. yet what that plane, the picture on that plane is made up of is me. So that makes sense. But then to kind of reverse it is disturbing. So it actually is you that's disturbing? Which part is disturbing? That's okay. Then the thing about reading about the mirror, where that shows us the true nature of reality.

[12:38]

It shows us that there that there is actually no inherent substance, no... Well, in a way, all subject and object is like that, I think. I mean, I don't know how far to take the metaphor, but I think that's the key metaphor in this. But it's playing with it. So when you were talking, I was thinking of it in terms of this other theme, one of the other themes that we've talked about, teacher and student, or teaching, or how do we find this teaching of thusness? It's been intimately communicated by Buddhism ancestors. So in a way, the Zen model of teaching is face-to-face with a teacher, like we do doksan. So in some sense, a teacher or the teaching itself, the teaching as a whole, is a reflection too. It's a mirror image giving you feedback on what you look, the face you couldn't see unless you had a mirror in front of you. You couldn't see our face without the mirror. So a lot of Zen tradition talks about face-to-face, you know, meeting face-to-face.

[13:43]

So that's also part of what it's talking about here. How do we find out what's real and what we really are and how, you know, and that has to do with, so we can see it formally in terms of teacher, but it's also in terms of relationship and how do you meet yourself in some other one. So I think that's in there, too, in that you are not in it in actuality. Yeah. This really, this resonates with the way I think about it, which is just a little different, and the line about inquiry and response coming up together. I walk around thinking I know what I am, and then there's the mirror, and even if I'm not looking in the mirror, I'm in there, and it's this other, reality. But when I look into the mirror and experience this confusion, for lack of a better word, that's the coming up together.

[14:50]

Maybe it's that moment. And within that moment, then there's another reality. It's not really limited to a moment, but that moment, in my mind, maybe I'm using different words, but that's What does that do, that calls you or what's the function there? That's the coming up, that's the coming up together. Yeah, calling is good work. Yeah, so literally this is a really neat line, this marvelously or wondrously inserted inside the absolute, in the truth. Inquire and response could be translated as calling and answering, it's just like this This is immediate response. It's not like some question and some intellectual answer. It just meets. So yeah, that's the mirror too.

[15:55]

And as you were talking, I was thinking of you know, if we actually try on this idea of the whole world being a mirror, I'm not sure that that's exact, maybe that's carrying the metaphor too far, but anyway, that's what I'm feeling from this, that if we carry that to some, you know, to say everything that happens is a mirror in some way showing you yourself, then there are certain things that kind of call, you know, wake us up in some ways, call through, You know, something that startles us, enables us to see something fresh. Or something that, you know, I mean it could be a very everyday thing. We see a flower and we just, oh. Or some delicious pasta and just, oh. It works in all of our senses, not just visual. So there's that sound, there's that famous story of the monk who gave up all of his texts and intellectual understanding and all and realized he didn't understand and couldn't respond to the teacher and went off to take care of the tomb of some Zen master and was sweeping and just threw away all of his books and was sweeping the wok one day and swept up a pebble and it hit this bamboo and the sound woke him up.

[17:23]

It's a very famous story. The sound of bamboo is just like, that's also part of the mirror, but it's like the parts of the mirror that kind of There can be like a glazed mirror. But what are the qualities of the mirror that actually bring light to us or that bring up something new or that allow us to see the world or ourselves freshly? And I think that's part of what's going on here too. Especially when it's talking about this teaching of thusness, the way things are. Now you have it. I feel something of that. Maybe the sound of bamboo is a little kind of a exaggerated example. Sound of what? The sound of bamboo, that sound that woke up that guy. No, that's not it. That's not in here, but it's just like it reminded me the way we were. Sounds to me like you were talking about mirrors, as if they're outside of ourselves.

[18:27]

It seems to me that this has possibly pointed another way, which is mirror, or maybe translated as mind. You know, that kind of reflection. Which is why it's not you, but it is exactly you. I mean, the whole transformation happens internally. So it seems like there's some way we're talking about it after the split, you know, after thinking that we're thinking about something out there. Yeah, it's really hard to talk about it without, you know, embedding in our talking about it some subject-object, some, you know, some assumption subtly or not so subtly that it's out there, you know. I mean, that's kind of the grossest way of talking about it. That's the other theme that's in there. How do you find language that doesn't fall for that? It's like the baby... First you have to find this thought that doesn't fall from the sky.

[19:34]

Well, I don't know. I mean, how do you find this? Do you find it in the thought, or is it a cognition, or is it this immediate perception, or is it a word, or some way of languaging that cuts through our usual kind of definitions and preconceptions? Anyway, I think it's good to talk about it in this way. I mean, I've been going through it somewhat just going through the words and the Chinese characters and that level of looking at what does this mean, just as literature, as a text, I think brings up interesting things, but also we have to look at it in terms of what, I mean, the value of a text like this is to look at it in terms of what does it tell us about our practice in life. The meaning is not in the words.

[20:37]

yet it responds. So actually, you don't have to know the exact literal meaning of a Chinese character to feel something from it, and what it evokes in each of us in the images and ideas that, or, you know, the echoes and responses that we each have to these lines, I think, are where the life of it is. I don't know how far we went, but for me, this is like, That's actually where we're up to so maybe, I don't know if we're ready to continue there, you know, going through it sentence by sentence. But maybe actually the next, this next little section to the end of the page is pretty juicy. So let's continue there, but please, if things come up, please bring them up. Translate, I figured if I got the Chinese with the English word next to it, then all this would make sense.

[21:50]

Is this what it's like to translate this stuff? You see these characters and what you get is a string of words like essence, reach, path, reach, put something in between, path, mistake, and you try to make sense out of all that? That's the first level of it. The complications, there are lots of complications, but part of it is that there are levels, there's lots of levels, particularly in Chinese, there's lots of levels of meaning, first of all, and then Two characters together are a compound that have sometimes some other meaning. The individual meanings are relevant, but the compound has another meaning. So we're gonna come to some good examples of that along here. So part of, as I'm going through this and trying to give some interpretation or reading using the characters, some of this is just

[22:51]

Based on what I can see of the character, some of it I have heard some commentary or there's some commentary on. So this is not, this is, you know, we're kind of all grappling with this stuff. That particular one, which is where we're at now, section 17, for those of you who want to follow, who have the Chinese, communing with the source and communing with the process, I think we can see that as relating to the absolute and relative we were talking about, or the universal and the particular. This word that's translated as source is particularly interesting, though, in this case, because it's shu. It also means a school, like Soto Shu. It's the same character. So it refers to a particular tradition of teaching, but it also means the essence or the source So it does have that overtone. I think in this case, basically, there's this parallel between, communing I think is a good translation, but it also has this feeling of connecting with the source, or penetrating the source, reaching the source, or the essence, and then reaching the process.

[24:09]

So there's the ultimate meaning, and then there's the way that it's expressed in We could maybe talk about this in terms of meaning and application or something like that. There are various polarities here and it looks at it from different angles. But here it's, there's the essence and then there's the process of how it's worked out or the process of how we get back to seeing the essence. I think both of those are there. So there's the essential teaching and there's the path of how to follow it. So we're on this communing, right? Communing with the source and communing with the process. So communing is a little bit like connected, as opposed to the other entry. And they're saying process is like path. Right. Process is confusing to me because it's a little bit like the modern kind of Well, I think that's what path is.

[25:12]

That's interesting. I think that there's a sense of that process is how do we proceed. So process does have to do with path. And I think our modern use, the psychological use of, the modern psychological kind of use of process, you know, I think is relevant. It's like the verb, how do we, how do, there's, we could say this, we could talk, we could see this as kind of wisdom and function maybe also. There's the essential wisdom, there's the source, there's the basic stuff, the fundamental stuff, and then there's the way that it functions. So path or process is also partly function here. So partly there's the literal meanings of these words, but there's also the context here where it's talking about this in the context of universal in particular, absolute and relative. And so that context, we're seeing it reflect in slightly different ways in each case. The next line is interesting to me because this is something about, the next line is very concrete, which maybe doesn't include, doesn't come across in the translation, which goes, it includes integration and includes the road, but it's actually a very concrete image.

[26:26]

It's, I could, you could translate it as it's carried under the arm and carried down the road. There's something, it's held close and then it proceeds. So in a way it just repeats. On one level the meaning is the same as the previous. Communing with the source and communing with the process. It includes integration, it includes the road. It's kind of a repetition in a way, but it just gives you another kind of angle on it. And there's a concreteness about it to me. So again, it's talking about these two sides and the way that they interact, which we were talking about last time. And I think that's something we have, I don't know, in a way that's somewhat clear cut. Much more, next sentence, which we usually read, merging is auspicious, do not violate it.

[27:30]

This is one of these real juicy sentences here. This word that Tom Cleary translates as merging, it means, there's two characters. This is a case where there's a compound. Together, the first one means to miss or to mistake, to make a mistake. It also means respect. Together, this shakunen, for those of you who have it, section 18, has all these meanings. It has the meaning of immersed or submerged. which is, I think, where he gets merging. So it's kind of merging in a sense of, you know, kind of submerged, kind of like this globule or something. But it also means, it also still has this meaning of missing it. It also means devotion. It also means respectfulness or reverence. So that all of those meanings are there. Which is, you know, Well, I don't know, did Dongshan, when he wrote this, did he mean one of those things?

[28:33]

But then he used this particular word, which does have all those overtones. So in a way, we just have to guess and speculate about it. But we could read it as respectfulness is auspicious. And then this violate, we could say is do not neglect it or do not violate it, do not, There are a lot of synonyms there. Do not be disobedient to it. Do not offend it. All of those meanings could be there. Do not oppose it. Do not oppose it, that's right. So, okay, the meaning we chant when we chant this merging is auspicious, do not violate it. I think he probably picked that meaning because it has to do with this polarity of the ultimate and the concrete or the universal and the particular. And so we could understand that then putting that together is auspicious. So that might refer to the fifth level of the two are seen as one.

[29:39]

So I think that's one way to read it. But I think it's interesting to play with the other meanings that are there too. Respectfulness is auspicious. That seems pretty clear cut. Respectfulness is, auspicious or fortunate. We're lucky. This is like the usual Chinese, one of the usual Chinese characters for good luck, you know, or for happiness, you know, in that way, blessing. But then there's this other one which is very interesting. Missing it is auspicious. And that gets really interesting. So that's actually, if you look at the other translations we have, If you miss it, that's a good sign, is Cosson's translation. Don't neglect it. And the Chinese master's version is, to be wrong is auspicious, do not oppose it. And Professor Powell's translation, acting with, now this is very interesting, acting with circumspection is auspicious.

[30:48]

There is no contradiction. So all of these, all of these, meanings are there. So circumspection I think he gets from the sense of respectfulness. But the thing about missing it is fortunate. It's real interesting. It's the one that sounds the weirdest in a way, I mean, the first take. It's like, what? Making mistakes is auspicious. It's not the way we usually think. So one thing is I'm reminded of Dogen saying his life was one continuous mistake. Well this acting with circumspection is auspicious, there is no contradiction. Listen, earlier we were talking about, in an earlier class, about how not to say it directly, not to name it, but talk around it. Not talk around it, but don't explain directly. Yeah, bring the context up, but don't point right at it. You can't do it. You can only sort of like, you know, The word you say isn't it.

[31:50]

Yeah, right. That's it. Yeah, yeah. Right. Good. There's no contradiction if you do that. But if you do act directly and try to point and write at it, then there's some contradiction. That would be difficult. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's like the meaning is not in the words, yet it does respond to the energy or to the inquiry. So merging as auspicious would fit that because merging there would be acting generally in merging, you know, generally, instead of pointing at a piece. You're not violating an issue. I have some reaction to using the word general for this. I don't know, yeah. But I think, yeah, I think that's… General is not the correct word. Because general is to me something that's kind of like, I don't know, it's just like… Abstract. I don't know. Yeah, I think that's right.

[32:53]

I hadn't seen that. The part of this is talking about how we use language, if we see it as respectfulness. Or again, all of this is about how do we keep it well? This is all of the teaching of vastness that now you have. So this line, just because it has so many resonances, it seems to me to be it. particularly relevant to this question of how do we keep it well, which is maybe the topic of the whole thing. So there's merging and there's circumspection or respectfulness. And this missing it, when I was thinking about this, I was thinking about it in terms of balance. So all along he's talking about how do you balance this two or five or whatever different aspects of reality and practice in our life. And so missing it is like being off a little bit. Actually losing our way is part of the path.

[33:54]

There's integration, and integration is like when it's all connected, and the path is actually taking steps. And in some sense, each step takes you, whatever you do. is a little off, you know, that way of looking at things. It's like, I'm reminded of Kinhin, you know, when you're doing walking meditation, you don't actually walk straight, you know, it's like there's a kind of sway to each side. So each step we take is like a little off center. So this is again, this is just my speculations about this, What does it mean to miss it, in this case? This is not like if you miss it, you fall into retrospective hesitation. This is a different kind of missing. This is the missing that's auspicious. I wonder if emerging can also refer to early in the sentence, where he brings up the road and the source, you know?

[34:57]

Right. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's maybe the primary meaning, in a sense. But we still have to deal with this meaning, missing it is fortunate. Don't neglect it. I mean, that's definitely one of the meanings that's there. But isn't this like when you were speaking about keeping or missing or... I mean, in a way, if you're on the path, there's not really missing or not missing. Right. So... So, in a way, and I kind of missed my thought here, but I don't... I feel like by using this word missing, I guess it's saying something to me that I don't know if it's actually pointing to here. Like missing sounds like you did it wrong, right where you're off. But I think there's a place that's not really on or off.

[36:00]

But maybe that's what it means by that's a good sign. Yeah, I don't think it's a matter of right or wrong, but I think this is something about the road or about the process. We learn from making mistakes, actually. You have to be willing to make mistakes. Think of something like, I don't know, some task in the kitchen. If you try, it could be that we could come over and show you, we want the carrots cut this way. But if he just says, cut the carrots, you try something and you might see how actually that way of cutting them wouldn't, I don't know how far I can take this example, but that wouldn't work for what he wanted or something like that. Or that that wouldn't be the way to do it for that particular dish. I don't know. But actually trying something, So the path is about, you actually proceed, and proceeding is, in a way, it's a mistake.

[37:05]

Because you don't have to get anywhere, I mean, it's all, the integration is already here, right? But still, we have to do something, practically, in the relative conventional realm. So actually, now I remember my thought. Is that it wasn't so much missing it like right or wrong, because I have this sense, even if you say, making a mistake, from it, then in a way it's no longer a mistake. So maybe missing it is mostly just about moving in it, or moving, doing any action, or expressing, or, I mean I know that's not the word it's using, but somehow putting oneself forward. I can hear that I don't like how that sentence came out. No, I think everything we say is part of it. It's like there's different facets of the mirror. And I don't know, in this case, it's not that there's one right answer.

[38:11]

It's like there's this sentence which has a lot of overtones to it. That's what I meant when I said it was juicy. It kind of reminds me of, in psychology or in training, when you're talking about people that are very goal-oriented versus people that really engage in a process, and they're sort of on a, you know, an X, Y coordinate graph. When you kind of reach ideal states of both, and the lines go around, that's called flow. People kind of lose a certain sense of either being really linked to the goal or really being busy with how they're getting there and they just do it. Maybe that's missing it in a way. Yeah, I think this does have something to do with process as opposed to... Well, you're talking about process and goal.

[39:13]

You're referring to somebody who is enjoying the process for its own sake as opposed to trying to get somewhere. Is that what you mean? By those two? Yes. So where would this be, then, in that graph, or in that polarity? It's a slightly different polarity, I think, than integration in the road, but it's... Or that's a polarity about process in the road, enjoying the process for itself and trying to get... I guess where maybe a word that might work would be missing, instead of saying missing it, losing it. or letting it loose. I don't know how that works with all the characters, if there's any link to a word like that. Or maybe the letting go. Well, if you merge with something, you're letting go of something.

[40:16]

There's a kind of letting go in that. But it also has the meaning of devotion, which is to put something else, to devote, to put something else to be devoted to, I don't know if there's a thing that you're devoted, but it's a kind of orientation to the world. Yeah, so maybe in that sense, letting go is allowing both integration and the road, maybe allowing, Mm-hmm. I don't know. You know, I think there are a lot of overtones we can read into this. I don't, I'm not sure, you know, I don't have the right answer. Does this reflect back to how you have it, keep it well? I think so.

[41:17]

I think so. It feels to me like it does. It feels like this is, you know, this is like a suggestion in a more active way than you know, in the same kind of way as keep it well. Well, the suggestion is don't violate it, you know. Before they said keep it well, now they said don't, you know, kind of miss it, don't neglect it or don't oppose it. So I think, yeah, I think letting go is A good word to plug in here. In terms of, as a practical way of thinking about what it means to do this, to be this, in terms of our life and practice. So being respectful, I think we can, you know, that's, we can all feel how being respectful is a kind of helpful attitude.

[42:21]

But how missing is a helpful attitude is, A little more ungraspable. This is like a... I'm just trying to see if it's the first time in here, but it seems like most of the text up until now has been sort of a descriptive thing. You know, sort of a reflection. And then here is almost like a practice of what you just said. It's like a practice suggestion. Well, things like turning away and touching are both wrong. It's kind of like implies don't do either of those. So yeah, but I think I think one way to read this is, you know, this whole thing is an instruction on how, what does it mean to keep it well. So let's come back to this if anybody, you know, has other ideas about this. It seems like it spends a lot of time describing it.

[43:27]

And then what does it mean to keep it well? It's just sort of a little insert there, like it's auspicious to know that. Anyway, I don't know. Yeah, but so there are, I think there are lots of ways to take a lot of what's in here as practice kind of instructions, or as meditation practices even. This is certainly one of them, although we don't know which way to read it exactly, but a lot of what's to come also we can take that way. This next line may be a clue, or it may be more confusing. Naturally real yet inconceivable, it is not within the province of delusion or enlightenment. Okay, I think the not within the province of delusion or enlightenment is fairly straightforward. that trying to, it doesn't belong to delusion, it doesn't belong to enlightenment, it's not a matter of that.

[44:37]

It's not about getting enlightened or getting rid of delusion. But this naturally real, this yet inconceivable, The inconceivable is myo, which is wondrous, or inconceivable, or subtle, or beautiful. The naturally real is Rev's name, Tenshin. And I was just talking with him about his name, and he had some interesting things to say. Literally, the first character is heaven, or sky, or natural, as in the world of nature. And shin is genuine, true, or real, or genuine. But as a compound, it has other meanings. This is an example of where you can't just plug in the meaning of each character. Together, Areb was saying that as a compound, refers to a kind of immediacy, but like a kind of childlike immediacy, like a child playing with a toy and really being into this toy. I mean, it's a kind of superficiality, but with concentration or intensity.

[45:42]

So this kind of surface level, which fits in with it. mirror image. It's a kind of intensity and immediacy. So just what we see in front of us, that's what's real. Just what the mirror reflects, that's what's real. But it also has something to do with the attitude towards it. A kind of childlike naturalness. So, Rev said that Suzuki Roshi told him his name meant, Rev is Rev. Just what's in front of you. And it's very not sophisticated, not intellectual, just immediate. Actually, as a modern Chinese compound, it means naive. But it has this quality of just, I mean, again, we just had this thing about the ordinary child in five aspects complete, so this kind of calls back to that.

[46:50]

This do not oppose it, this missing and at the same time respectful merging. Just this immediate quality of enjoying simple things. It has all of those overtones. And yet it is inconceivable. It's not something we can pin down. It's something wonderful, something subtle. So it's kind of ordinary surface reality, and yet there's something about it that's wondrous. So it's a particular kind of aspect or quality of reality that is being particularly pointed to.

[48:03]

One of the ways I was thinking about missing is in terms of non-gaining attitude or non-attachment. I just was reminded of that. That has something to do with this kind of childlike, innocent quality. Not trying to get anything, just like a little kid playing with a toy. Just enjoying it for itself. This is also kind of a quality of samadhi, It's kind of presence. Yeah. It's not that it's unaware. Cause like if you think of a, think of a little kid, think of a little kid playing with some toy, you know, there's awareness, but it's not, isn't it?

[49:15]

It is in a way before, kind of is before analysis, you know, before cognition, before kind of interpretation or any of those things. Like a ball on a swiftly flowing stream. Uh-huh. Remember that? Yeah, what's that from? Does a child have, what is it, fifth consciousness? And the answer was like a ball on a swiftly flowing stream is that before discriminating awareness. Right. This is kind of immediacy. And playfulness, too. So the aspect of natural, like Mr. Natural or something. I don't know, it's overtones. So, with causal conditions, time and season, quiescently it shines bright.

[50:20]

In particular, this, now we turn to the, there's a particular time. So, causes and conditions, time and season. Time and season is a compound that, it's very interesting, where this is section 21, for those of you following the Japanese, Innen Jisetsu. Causes and conditions are just what this comes out of. the whole causal nexus that appears at any particular naturally real moment or event. And it's a particular time and season. So jisetsu is used a lot by Dogen and Zen. It means a particular time or a particular moment It's an interesting character. The first character is just the ordinary word for time, ji. The second one is like a bamboo node. Bamboo, there's the place where, what do you call that, where the joint is. The joint, yeah. That bisects the bamboo.

[51:22]

And so it's this node, it's this particular place on the bamboo. So as a compound, ji sets in these particular times, particular moments. It also refers to a season. both generally and like autumn, fall, autumn or spring. It's also an opportunity. So this is talking about that out of causes and conditions, at some particular time, at some particular opportunity, at some particular moment, coming out of causes and conditions, quiescently it shines bright. we could say that tranquilly, stillly, silently, it illuminates. So in the middle of this kind of natural child's play, in the middle of this kind of immediacy of You know, missing is also, I think what you were saying, Ross, about letting go, I think is really useful in terms of missing and also merging.

[52:32]

Merging is also kind of letting go. It's letting go of separateness. So this ability to kind of just be with whatever's in front of you, in this kind of very, in a way, surface level, in this very surface way, in a sense, in this immediate just being in the moment. If some particular causes and conditions arise, and then there it is, and it shines. So this is, in a way, this whole section is kind of describing or talking about this process. Do you think quiescent comes through pretty clear in the translation? I think quiescent is okay. The character literally means tranquilly, stillly, silently, in solitary. I don't know what that English word, what the other terms of that English word are. I don't think it's passively, but it's in still, out of stillness, out of settledness.

[53:36]

I think settled is a relative, is a relative term. At the chakra? Yeah, yeah. Cause to shine completely in the silence. So it also just means silence. Tranquil. quietly illuminates. So it's not, so it's like, if you think of a little kid playing, in a way, the brightness that's there is not something that doesn't need to be particularly loud or showy. I mean, it might be, but even if it was, you know, if it was like that, still, I mean, what's bright about it is just there. It's not, Simplicity. Simple. Simple is a good word here. Yeah. So this next line, I'm just pushing ahead, but please bring up comments or questions as we go.

[54:51]

In its fineness it fits into spacelessness, in its greatness it is utterly beyond location. This means that in its small, in its detail, it fits into having no space. In its vastness it is utterly beyond direction or particular location or fixedness. This is section 22. So I think that translation may be a little misleading, because fineness doesn't mean fine like great. It means fine like detailed or minute. And it's minuteness, you could say. It may be more poetical, but in its minuteness, in its detailedness, it fits in where there's no space. It fits into like a tiniest space. It enters. where there's no gap. It's so small, it's so fine in that sense. That's what that means.

[55:56]

So small can't get underwritten, small. And then the next one is just a parallel. On His greatness and His largeness and His vastness, it is utterly beyond literally direction or place, beyond location, free of location. and then Hare's Breast Deviation will fail to occur with the proper attunement. So there's a case in the Book of Serenity that talks about Hare's Breast Deviation. I forget. I'm not sure. Here's Bruce. Anyway, I think it's a kind of common sense saying, you know what, you're off by a hair, you miss it by the little bit.

[57:00]

Again, this is playing back and forth, and I don't understand all the subtleties of this, and it may have to do with this five business that we're talking about, maybe not, but it was just talking about missing it is auspicious, and now it's talking about if you're off even by a hair, you miss, you fail to accord with the proper attunement. I like this, fail to accord with the proper attunement. It's just the distance between heaven and earth. Yeah, right. The Hare's Breath deviation is like the distance, difference between heaven and earth. How do you understand this? What's the rest? How do you understand this? The Hare's Breath difference is the distance between heaven and earth. Well, this failing to accord with the proper attunement is interesting to me. Literally, it's not corresponding to harmony, or this compound here, which is a kind of musical, technical term.

[58:05]

It refers to the scale, the ancient 12-tone scale, section 23. But I think this corresponding or corresponding or according with attunement, a lot of this is talking about how do we tune our practice or how do we find the harmony in our life. So this musical metaphor fits a lot with the balancing thing we've been talking about. There are several other musical metaphors in the other translations that Cleary doesn't use in his translations. Secretly held within the real rhythm and song arise together. Yeah, right. That's the inquiry and response, is rhythm and song, right. Then there's the wooden man beginning to sing, and then one stone woman getting up to dance that we'll meet later. Yeah, I think there are a number of... We have a tournament of major and minor keys that is lost when there's a handprint being used.

[59:13]

The Chinese one says, that would be out of harmony. That you would be out of harmony. The slightest difference puts it out of tune. It's very funny with, if you miss it, it's auspicious, right? Yeah, which I think, which is why I think if we just left it, if you miss it as auspicious, without the other meanings in there too, would kind of be misleading. It's a particular kind of missing that's auspicious. This next part is, now there are sudden and gradual, is a reference to Zen history in a way, or Chan, Chinese Zen history.

[60:46]

sudden and gradual, so the Southern school of the Sixth Ancestor was supposed to be sudden school, immediate awakening, like the fellow who heard the sound of the pebble hitting the bamboo. And then gradual is like this aspect of Buddhist practice that you practice for years and gradually kind of develop your understanding. And so I think in early Chan, there was this kind of debate that there was, or there was this kind of idea that there was one way or the other. And these were basic approaches. These were kind of set up as, established as kind of different schools or different meanings, different approaches. How do you read the now?

[61:57]

Is it like, now there's sudden and gradual approaches? I think it's usually interpreted as meaning... Like listen? No. No? Okay. Usually it's interpreted as meaning now, you know, these days. Okay. I think you're suggesting something very interesting, which is that right now there is sudden, right now there is gradual, and that's actually, and I would not say that's not the actual deeper meaning, but on a more prosaic level, it's usually interpreted as now we have these two approaches to practice. But actually, I think what you're saying is right, that right now we have both of them. So Suzuki Roshi used to say we have sudden understanding and gradual practice. So understanding is always sudden. I mean, we have kind of leaps of insight or just, oh yeah, it's like, oh, it's like you recognize something, recognitions.

[63:06]

But our practice is gradual in the sense of that even when you have some understanding like that, what does it mean in terms of practical application and how you live your life needs to be worked out you know, over time. So you may understand yourself very well, but may not be able to necessarily change your habits like that. You may still be smoking cigarettes even though you know that you don't want to. This is a kind of crass example. They're both, so actually they're both, they're actually both there now. But one level of, the basic level of what he's talking about here is just that now there are these two approaches. And historically we can, you know, Zen is supposed to be this sudden school. And sometimes they've talked about Rinzai being more sudden and Soto being more gradual. That's a misunderstanding. But it seems like that. So some people have emphasized having some sudden awakening and certain branches of Zen have emphasized that.

[64:15]

And even within Tibetan Buddhism, just to take another example, the Dalai Lama school is what we might call gradual. They're not even supposed to meditate until they've been studying teachings for years. There's this kind of feeling of you gradually learn the path, you learn the process, you learn the teachings gradually and then at some point you're ready to do, to understand, you know, suddenly. As opposed to, you suddenly, you know, the example of the Sixth Ancestor, where he had this great awakening, and before he was ordained, before he was practicing, really, just he heard this line from the Diamond Sutra, and just had this flash, and after that, he could understand sutras, even though he couldn't read yet. You know, there's that, that's kind of the other example. So anyway, on one level, this is just saying, now we have these two approaches, And once basic approaches are distinguished, then there are guiding rules. I think what you said about now is very interesting, because I think that does kind of undercut seeing them as separate.

[65:22]

But we do have approaches. We do have techniques. We do have principles, standards, guidelines. This is all in section 24. There's nothing particularly in the literal meaning that I think is I mean, if anybody has any questions, I can say something, but it's basically pretty straightforward. But then this next line, though, even though the basis is reached and the approach comprehended, true eternity still flows, is one of these juicy lines in this whole text. The fear in that is that even though you have some insight into something, there's still all these various, maybe various karmic somethings that have to be undone or we talk about burning it off or whatever.

[66:37]

You can't just But I think that that's also kind of strange, you know, as I'm saying it, you know, in a way, since everything is sort of fundamentally empty anyway, what is there to cut off, or burn off, or whatever, you know? Right. In a way, what this is saying is also kind of It really undercuts the whole question of technique, or do you just recognize it immediately? It's interesting, I'm just noticing that there's something in the Japanese that's not in the Chinese. So in the Chinese it's just essence reached, approach comprehended, true eternity, flows on or continues to flow.

[67:41]

And the Japanese reads into it with a verb ending, makes it even though. So it may be that that's the Chinese understanding, but it's not, it's something that has to be, it's a Japanese interpretation of the Chinese in a way. So this is the standard interpretation. So partly what we're, how we're reading this is the interpretation of this Chinese text that comes down through Japanese Soto Zen. because it's a good place to look and see what the Chinese... It doesn't mean just like eternity still flows, it's true eternity. Yeah, so this true is the same as the attention. Shin is genuine and real. Reality, we could read it, reality continues to flow. Reality, the genuine I mean, there's lots of different ways of turning this, but I think true eternity is a good translation here, but the overtones of it are the genuine continued continuity or endless reality still floats.

[68:53]

But I'm just struck going through it now by this part of that. even this this uh even though it's kind of a it makes sense but in a way it's a it's an interpretive it's it's literally what the japanese says and it's not it's kind of read into the chinese it reminds me of the uh koan it does uh point it down in the book of serenity uh Is an R-Hot subject to cause and effect? I've got, as they say, it's slightly different on the other one. With the Fox? Yeah, the Fox. It's not ignore cause and effect, it's not blind to cause and effect. Yeah, but so an R-Hot, which, let's say, has reached the basis.

[69:58]

Even though the basis is reached and the approach comprehended, it's still true eternity. It still flows. Even though a person is, let's say, enlightened, it's still true eternity. You can't escape from cause and effect. That's right. Good. Yes, yes. I think that's basic meaning here. That's right. That's the koan that reminds me of it. So yeah, we have all these approaches. Meaning is, basis is reached in approach comprehended. We could read that as understanding the meaning of the basis of the source and of the reaching. I mean, we could break this up into, we could read these as synonyms for the universal and the, or the absolute and the relative. We could do that to this again. We could take, basis as the universal and approach as the, or actually reach, I think there's a way of reading this that gets into that, but even though we have these, more fundamentally, even though we have these different approaches of techniques and schools and understandings, still, life goes on.

[71:25]

On one level, that's what it's saying. The Chinese translation though, it doesn't say even though, it says, so this Master Sheng Yen's translation, he's translating it from the original Chinese characters, not from the Japanese verb endings, which give it another, which add that even though. And he says, realization of the basic principle is the ultimate standard, genuine, constant, yet flowing. It's a little bit different feeling. Is that the same one? Yeah, that's interpretive, but I think that's generally, I think that's what it's referring to, that there are these different So when you have different techniques, you have different schools, you have different approaches, you have different strategies of practice.

[72:39]

So in a way, it's referring to that. He says, even though you master such teachings, the truth keeps on escaping. That's a little bit funny. I could see how I could read it that way. I don't see that meaning now. It's more like the truth keeps on flowing. The essential truth keeps on trucking, or whatever. Well, there's this outflow thing here. I mean, did you read that? It's on page 65 of Tungshan's record. Even if one penetrates the principle and amasses the approach, the true constant continues as a defiled outflow. Well, that's interesting. That's defiled, boy. Well, as an outflow is. interpreting this flowing as outflows, which sometimes that word is used in Chinese Buddhism to refer to outflows, which is a kind of technical Buddhist psychological term.

[73:43]

This is obviously an interesting section that we need to look at in different ways. Section 25 on page 16 of the characters here. So the essence is reached and the meaning or the approach is mastered, investigated thoroughly, is how to, there's another way to say that. Then this true continuity, this true eternity, this genuine endlessness, it's also ordinary, this character Joe. So this is true eternity, but it's also ordinary truth. This is just the way things are. It's the continuity of truth. The continuing production of the illusion of the world, which is the truth. But it's also, the truth is behind that, is continuing.

[74:48]

In a way, the outflow is right. The more we look at it, the more complex this particular section is. Can you give a little more background on outflow in its historical? If anybody else wants to add something to this, please do. Part of it is, in the context of Samadhi, to lose energy. But it's also unwholesome conduct. In the early Buddhist psychology, in Abhidharma, there are particular kinds of mental qualities that are divided, and there's a whole science of some are wholesome, some are unwholesome, some are defilement, some are just neutral. So I think outflows refers to One way to talk about it refers to being caught by those states of mind.

[75:52]

And it also has to do with being caught by making real phenomenal. By delusions and what delusions are to believe in the reality of. or the separate reality of particular things, particular qualities. So objects of desire, objects of aversion. To treat the phenomenal world as objects is kind of this delusion that leads to outflows, or that is expressed in outflows. I still think I have this one. The true constant continues as a defiled outflow. Well, I don't think that's the main meaning. But I think in this case, my sense of the meaning of this passage is not that it's talking about outflows primarily. It's more like the real, the ordinary truth or the true eternity, the endless, the continuous, the genuine continuity continues.

[77:04]

even though you master all of these teachings. I think that's actually the basic meaning here. Even though you master all these techniques, all these approaches, all these understandings, all this Buddhist philosophy, your life goes on. I think that's the basic meaning here. But I don't know, any other reactions? A lot of cause and effect still operate. Right. And the outflows, also you can think of them as karma. Right, it's related to karma, right. Karma has a future. The consequences of the flow is cause and effect. Yeah, which is what you were saying about in the now are sudden and gradual. By saying it that way, we see that these are kind of There may be practical illusions, but these are, you know, it's like all techniques are, you know… Systems.

[78:13]

They're systems, right, exactly. They're skillful means. They may be useful in a particular relative condition, context, but all they are is systems, right? I think, I feel like the next line applies to that. It's like outwardly, still while inwardly moving like a tethered colt or a trapped rat. And you can sort of understand things or see things or whatever, but still it flows and you're, you know, you're still, it's still, it's like in a way, somehow, so it feels like it's saying you're still caught where you are. Well, this line particularly has always appealed to me very much as a concrete image of Zazen.

[79:19]

Outwardly still while inwardly moving. I mean, the sense of sitting still and your mind is churning away and racing here and there. And sometimes it feels like you're a tethered horse waiting for the bell to ring. A trapped rat. You know, this is a real kind of juicy image of... This is true eternity flowing. But it does give you the little gift at the end. Yeah, so we're moving on to this next section, which we could do. We're coming to the end of our time tonight. Yeah, let's think about together about this week about this true eternity still flows because I think there's more there than we have. I think there's this life goes on as part of it, but what is this true eternity and what is this true eternity in terms of this natural reality or naturally real?

[80:22]

There are all these different, another theme in here is truth or reality. So I mentioned last time the five places where the word truth is used, the word true is used. So in a way, part of what's going on here is this different faceted mirror reflecting reality from different angles. What is reality, what's in the mirror is reality, what's looking into the mirror. Is that the five ranks again? Well, I think, yeah, the five places where the word true is used on the previous page, which I mentioned last time, I can go over some of that if anybody has any questions about that. So, yeah, we haven't been talking about this this time in terms of the five ranks, but we could. I mean, we could apply that system again. It's just a system. We could apply that to everything that we've been talking about tonight.

[81:31]

Have you found that system useful? Personally, I've found it useful to know that there is such a system. When I've tried to kind of apply it in some, you know, okay, is this the first or the third or the fourth, you know? Sometimes I can just recognize it. Sometimes it's just, oh, okay, this is the relative, this is the absolute, this is, they're coming out of the absolute. This is, they're playing together, this is, they're the same, you know? Sometimes you can just see it, but I think when you try and like make something fit into it, it kind of, you know, you can get a headache. Yeah. Right. Well, right. It's the inwardly moving. Yeah. I think it's an interesting exercise. And anyone who wants to try to apply those five to other parts of this, I'm not sure how exactly it fits.

[82:34]

I think, I feel like it's more like, you know, if you have five, on some ways you have 500, you know. This is a poem, this is a song. It's not like, you know, even though embedded in this song, there's these five in this system, which then has been taken out and used by Soto monk commentators over the centuries. It's more like, My feeling about this is that it's this song full of images which show us different aspects of Zazen, show us different aspects of what our relationship to reality and to the world is, and how to orient ourselves that way, how to keep it well. I relate to it myself more as poetry or image, just to feel the power of a tethered cold or a trapped rat. When you're in that kind of, when you're sitting and you feel that, or not just sitting, when you're doing your life and you feel that feeling of a tethered cold or trapped rat, then you remember the next part, the ancient saints pitied them and bestowed upon them a teaching.

[83:39]

according to their delusions, they call black as white. So this thing about calling black as white, we've been talking about language. Here's a particular instruction in skillful means of language, you know, when you see black to show the other side. So, anyway, let's come back to this next time, because it's pretty interesting. And especially this acquiescent mind realizing itself. But I think it's time for...

[84:11]

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