And again, as Dongshan said, that you have to see with your ears and hear with your eyes, or beyond that, you have to think with your ears and hear with your eyes. hear with your, see with your thoughts, and anyway. This is called technically synesthesia, but it's, but once part of, but what Hongzhi's encouraging here is that this process of silent illumination, that you actually engage with this whole process of the five skandhas, of the six senses and sense objects and so forth. that to actually be present in your body. This is not an abstract intellectual thing. This is something that we do with our body, which includes seeing and hearing and touching, smelling, tasting. So I was going to tell a story about eyes open, and I'm sorry Hogan's not here.

[01:02]

But the first time I tried seriously to meditate, It was summer of 1970 and it was actually before, I just later that year I went to Japan and spent three months going around to all these wonderful temples and gardens and seeing all these wonderful statues. Kyoto and Nara, but I was trying to sit based on the only book that was available then about actual Zen practice called Three Pillars of Zen. Maybe some of you know that book. And I don't know if it was something in the way that Yasutani presents it or just how I was then, but I was sitting in the middle, I was living in this kind of canyon near Boulder in the mountains. And I was sitting, and I think my posture was probably pretty good, and I was sitting, paying attention. But I'd read that you have to keep your eyes open.

[02:05]

And somehow, the way I read that, I thought that meant you couldn't blink. So I was sitting there, and so I was in posture with my eyes open. And at some point, I just couldn't do it. And I was really trying really hard. I was really into that drama that you were talking about. I thought there was something I had to get. And that I could only do it if I kept my eyes open. And if I blinked, then I couldn't do this practice. So I really kept my eyes open, didn't blink. And finally, water started pouring out of my eyes. And so I decided I couldn't do that. So anyway, finally, a few years later, I met a Japanese Sato-san priest and he showed me how human beings sit as opposed to statues. So whatever instruction you might hear, you have to take on in a way that you can do.

[03:15]

This is the subjective side. So either side is not complete. Anyway, unless there's some more comments about that exercise we just did, I could talk a little more and then give you some other practice instructions from Shreem Illumination, but yes. There's an empty place. There's a place where there's no object and no subject and no nothing. What about it? Well, if there's a greediness about it, then there's somebody there. Well, there's a me and an it right there. If it's really empty, there's nobody there. Of course, so there's this wonderful story, one of my favorite Dongshan stories. The monk comes and Dongshan says, where have you come from?

[04:16]

And he said, from the top of the mountain. This is quite a bold monk. And Dongshan asked, when you were up at the top of the mountain, was there anyone there? And the monk said, no, like you just said. And then Dongshan asked, well, if there was no one there, then how could you have been there? And the monk said, if I hadn't been there, how could I have known there was no one there? Don't just say, ah, I doubted this person. But anyway, so please continue to engage that. So someone else will have to tell Hogan the story about my eyes open and three pillars of Zen. Anyway, other comments or questions before we go on? Yes?

[05:21]

Is it a natural unfolding of silent illumination to eventually have your tactile sensation consistently expand beyond what you would say is your own body, so to actually feel forms in the room on a regular basis as your own tactile, as your own body? This can happen, yes. Yeah. So this again is part of the play of skin, the skin bag and tactile objects. Or again, seeing sounds and hearing shapes and colors is that we experience our space. So that also goes back to this interactivity with space and time, which I want to talk about now. And my forthcoming book, Visions of Awakening Space and Time, talks about that in terms of Dogen and the Lotus Sutra.

[06:28]

But yeah, that kind of experience can happen. Don't hold on to that. Don't make it into a thing. It's not such a big deal if you have that experience. That's not the point of your practice, okay? So my question is, is that the senses functioning unconditionally or is that an experience? So is that the absence of delusion of my making space? No, that is delusion. That is? Yeah. But it's a wonderful delusion. Please enjoy it. So don't try and get rid of delusion. Genjo Koan delusion. Dogen says, be in delusion throughout delusion. Don't try and get a hold of something you think is enlightenment and get rid of something that is delusion. There's actually, from the point of view of enlightenment, there's no difference. When Buddha awakened, he saw that all beings are Buddha nature. So that's another practice that's recommended in terms of Sangha to see the Buddha nature of all beings, of all your fellow practitioners, even the ones who seem like jerks.

[07:31]

You can see that there's some Buddha nature potential there. And to really kind of function from that, that seeing. And you can also see not just that other people are Buddha nature, but the clock and the cushions and tables and chairs. And so that's in the realm you were talking about, and that's fine. It's nice, but keep going. So Buddha is always going beyond Buddha. Hogan-san, there's no irrelevant questions. One of the things that we're, And so I know that when you're, what you've been talking in the social school, they talk about this horizontal equality of all things.

[08:39]

But the Buddha and patriarchs and ancestors also talk about a critical. Sure. There are people who have deeper insight or bigger insight. Mind that is less deluded. So. Can you talk about the vertical side of things? Sure. Actually, just for everybody to know, what we always do with teachers, we say, here, you can teach. Reveal yourself to everybody. And so I'm just giving you the opportunity to reveal yourself. Thank you. Not ours. Not to me. Yeah, so we're grateful for the Buddhas and ancestors in all the ten times. So we chant the names of the people who've kept it alive, this possibility. So of course we bow and revere, bow to and revere the Buddha ancestors who've expressed this.

[09:48]

But the point isn't finding some. So this is a problem in American Buddhism. And it's a problem with the interaction of Christianity or some form of something that's called Christianity and Buddhism that one of the qualities of Western psychology is that we, We want some great perfect master. We want the best teacher. We want some perfect Buddha. We want some perfect master to bow down to. Not that we don't appreciate all of the great masters of past and present, but it's appropriate that in the Western Ten Commandments, there's this thing about not bowing to graven images. And a lot of people, when they first come to a Zen center and they see people doing prostrations, it's kind of weird. That's one of the most difficult things, I think, for Americans coming fresh to Buddhist practice is the prostrations.

[10:56]

And actually, there's one Soto transmission commentary that says, without bowing, without prostrations, there's no Buddhism. But for us, it's a little tricky. So it's not that I don't recognize the vertical side, of course. But I want to turn it around. Is it Time Magazine or Newsweek? They had an article, this is some years ago, about American Buddhism and the spread of American Buddhism. And do you know whose picture was on the cover? It was Brad Pitt, because he had been in a movie about the Dalai Lama. So they had the new American Buddhism in the picture of Brad Pitt. So we have this strong fabricated tendency towards idolatry. So the point isn't to go hear the Dalai Lama because he's this great master and to bow down to him, but the point that all the Buddhist ancestors say is that you have to express it yourself.

[12:02]

Nobody can be Buddha for you. So I'm sorry I come back to the horizontal. With all due respect to, of course, so here I am talking about this guy who lived, he's been dead for a millennium. Almost, but so I like to teach from the ancient masters. And I keep going back to them and it's kind of enough for me. But the point isn't that Dogen or Hongxue, the sixth ancestor was this great wonderful being. And of course they were, but then how do we express that here and now? That's what's important. So each of you has to find and develop and express. And of course there is development, there is expression, there is deeper expression and wider and all of that of your Genjo Koan of Buddha nature.

[13:07]

Yes. Yes, yes, yes. One of my favorite stories. Do you all know that story? This is about Nanyue, who was the teacher of the great horse ancestor, Mazu. But when he was a student, he went to the sixth ancestor, and he appeared in front of the sixth ancestor, and the sixth ancestor said, what is this that thus comes? Pretty strange way of saying, who are you? What is this that thus comes? And Nanyue was speechless. He didn't know what to say. So he went and sat for eight years in the Zendo considering this question at the Sixth Ancestor's place. So sometimes in these dialogues, it looks like they're going back and forth, boom, boom, boom, in Dharma combat or something. But actually, sometimes there's some space between a question and a response, like a week or a month.

[14:14]

Or in this case, we know there were eight years they mentioned that. Eight years later, he came back to the Sixth Ancestor and said, now I can respond to that question you asked when I first showed up. And you asked me, what is this that thus comes? And now I know that anything I say would miss the mark. It took him eight years to get to that. Dogen kind of talks about that story in one place and kind of says, we have to laugh at this guy. But he proved that he hadn't wasted his eight years because Huining, the sixth ancestor, said to him, then is there practice realization or not? And Nanyue said, it's not that there's no practice realization, only that it cannot be defiled. So there is practice and realization, but that it can't be defiled is what all, the sixth ancestor said, that is exactly what all the Buddhism ancestors take care of. Please take care of it, preserve that well.

[15:14]

So, no matter how bad a Zen student you think you are, you can't hurt practice and realization. And Dogen talks about this in terms of the oneness of practice realization, which is a great segue to what I wanted to talk about next. So, So I will. And I actually talked about this a little bit last night, this idea of practice as kind of celebration, this process of clearly observing. And clearly observing goes back to the early Pali teachings, but also this exercise I just talked about is a way of, is kind of a, you know, Hongzhi's way of working with that, to look how, look at this process of observing that's both seeing and colors, hearing and sounds. So, this idea of, it's not passive, it's not that, you know, hearing that,

[16:21]

Now you have it. Preserve it well. Hearing that you all are Buddha nature, that doesn't mean that you can then stop practicing. This is a great danger that somebody could actually hear that and understand it intellectually very well about Buddha nature. It's not really hard to understand. But the point is that if there's Buddha nature, you have to celebrate it, and express it, and practice it, and engage it in your life. So there are people who come and practice for a while, then go away, and then come back. But actually, once you see this, you can't really go away from it. I'm sorry. You're all stuck. You're all trapped in the field of the empty field of cultivation of the oneness of practice realization. But the good news is that it's kind of fun. So you should enjoy your practice. If you're going to be into the melodrama of practice, enjoy the melodrama.

[17:28]

Enjoy the engagement and the challenge of this. And Hongxue talks about it in the section called Investigating Wonder on page 49. In clarity the wonder exists with spiritual energy shining on its own. It cannot be grasped and so cannot be called being. You can't say that it exists because you can't grasp it. It cannot be rubbed away and so cannot be called non-being. You can't say that it doesn't exist because you can't get rid of it. Beyond the mind of deliberation and discussion, depart from the remains of the shadowy images. Emptying one's sense of self-existence is wondrous. This wonder is enacted with a spirit that can be invoked. The moon mind with its cloud body is revealed straightforwardly in every direction without resorting to signs or symbols. Radiating light everywhere, it responds appropriately to beings and enters the sense dusts without confusion.

[18:32]

So this is what we were talking about, entering the sense dust, entering into the field of seeing and color, hearing and sound, thinking and thoughts. Radiating light everywhere, it responds appropriately to beings and enters the sense dust without confusion. Overcoming every obstruction, it shines through every empty dharma. Leave discriminating conditioning, enter clean, clear wisdom, and romp and play in samadhi. What could be wrong? This is how one must genuinely investigate the essence. So the Sasan practice is not passive. It's not just sit there and soak in Buddha nature. It's that we actually have some responsibility. for investigating this. So I appreciate all of your questions. And there's no such thing as a bad question. This investigating the essence is this silent illumination. We have to look at what's going on in this experience of being present, of being upright.

[19:41]

And you can't get rid of it. And you can't get a hold of it. So that might be frustrating, but actually it's wonderful. Because with every question, sometimes we actually do get answers. So I'm willing to answer questions sometimes, because I actually trust that there'll be a new question if you're paying attention. Dongshan said that he only revered his teacher, Yanyan, because he never explained anything to him thoroughly. So sometimes it's good for teachers not to answer questions. But the point is that every answer, every response, if you're investigating wonder, if you're really looking at what's going on here in this, lump of red flesh as it sits in serene illumination in this skin bag here and now, there's a kind of question, there's a kind of process, there's a kind of Buddha nature expresses itself through this investigation, through your looking more deeply.

[20:47]

So this is the deepening and the widening and there's no end to it. So the Buddha, when he had his complete perfect enlightenment, when he saw the morning star, when he saw that all beings are Buddha nature, that wasn't the end of Buddhism. That wasn't the end of his practice. He continued sitting every day the rest of his life. So, Amy? Just a question. If a person can awaken, can they also fall back asleep? Somebody asked that question to one of the great ancient Chinese masters named Huayan, and he said, once the leaf has fallen from the tree, it never jumps back onto the tree. But it's necessary to continue awakening, to go beyond Buddha. So, This is the study of suchness or the study, we could say, the study of the empty field or the study of serene illumination.

[21:53]

These are all just ways of talking about how is this experience of sitting upright in Buddha mudra. Yes. Oh, good, good. Wonderful. Thank you. When you talk about investigating, it sounds like Yes. Good. Good. So, you know, some people complain about SOSN because their thoughts are racing around and there's laundry lists and all that stuff and tapes are going and we've probably all of you have experienced that at some time. Maybe some of you just, you know. have given up thinking, and that's great. But even when in 40 minutes we may have many thoughts, just as we have many sounds and so forth, there's sometimes a space between thoughts.

[23:00]

Sometimes it's a long space, and that's great. That's fine. And that's related to this silence illumination. So I'm going to talk about that later in terms of the guideposts to silent illumination and the balancing of this between silence and illumination. This goes back to early Buddhist practices of shamatha and vipassana. There's this natural balance in our practice of stopping or quiet and then the more active arising of insight or illumination. And that's also, so the side illumination includes both sides. And so it's really part of the process of going beyond Buddha is really exploring both sides and their interaction. Just like we explore both the side of our seeing and the side of just forms and shapes and colors. Good. So yeah, that guidepost to silent illumination. I hope we'll get to that this afternoon and I want to talk about that in terms of that balancing.

[24:05]

One other thing I wanted to share, and this is actually from Dogen, not Hongxia, although I feel it's, actually there's a place where I can see it in Hongxia too, but maybe many of you have heard of Dogen's teaching about the oneness of practice and enlightenment, or practice and realization. There is no enlightenment as some abstract thing somewhere up on a mountaintop in Japan or Tassajara or Great Vale Monastery. It's only enlightenment if it's put into practice. Otherwise, it's just some abstract idea. So true enlightenment is always practiced. and our practice is the practice of enlightenment. It's not practice. So anyway, this is Dogen's viewpoint, that we don't practice to get some future enlightenment. He says that in the Buddhism, the Buddha way, do not wait for enlightenment. Your practice, with all of its confusion and grasping and so forth, is the practice inspired by whatever taste you've had of this illumination.

[25:17]

So in early Buddhism, this idea of bodhicitta, the mind of enlightenment, whatever it was that brought you to practice, that inspired you to take on spiritual practice, is your expression of enlightenment. So there's no real Buddhist practice that isn't from enlightenment, and there's no real enlightenment that isn't put into practice. So practice and enlightenment are one. But there's a place in Dogen's extensive record where he goes beyond that in a way that I think is really useful, or at least that I like. It's not just the oneness of practice and enlightenment. This is in, for those of you who want to look it up later, in the Dharma Words, or Hogo 11, in volume eight. And I won't read so much of this, because it's this Dogen-esque kind of playing with words, but he says within,

[26:19]

within this true Dharmahai treasury, there is practice, teaching, and verification. There's the practice, there's the expounding of that in teaching, and there's verification, that's sho, that means enlightenment. It's one of the words for enlightenment, verification of enlightenment. He says this practice is the effort of zazen. It is customary that such practice is not abandoned even after reaching Buddhahood so that it is still practiced by a Buddha. Teaching and verification should be examined in the same way. This zazen was transmitted from Buddha to Buddha directly pointed out by ancestors and only transmitted by legitimate successors. So there is the vertical here. Even when others hear its name, it is not the same as the Zazen of Buddha ancestors. This is because the principle of Zazen in other schools is to wait for enlightenment. For example, their practice is like having crossed over a great ocean on a raft, thinking that upon crossing the ocean, one should discard the raft.

[27:25]

Well, this is a common simile. You know, you get to the other shore and you leave the raft behind. But Dogen, he doesn't quite say it, but he implies that when you, you know, trudge up the mountains or into the marketplace, please carry the raft on your shoulders. Others may need it. The zazen of our Buddha ancestors is not like this, but is simply Buddha's practice. We could say that the situation of Buddha's house is the oneness in which the essence, which is enlightenment, practice, and expounding are one and the same. The essence is verification of enlightenment, expounding is the teaching, and practice is cultivation. Even up to now, these have been studied together. He goes on, and he's really a character. We should know that practice is the practice of essence, and expounding, expounding is to expound the essence and practice, and the essence is the verification of expounding and practice. If practice is not the practice of expounding and is not the practice of verification of enlightenment, how can we say it is the practice of Buddha Dharma?

[28:29]

Anyway, I won't read more of it, but the point is that usually we think that the conventional way, even in Buddhist conventions, is to think that you practice and then you get enlightened and then you turn the Dharma wheel. This is the story about what the Buddha did, right? What Dogen is saying that from the very beginning, there is this oneness of practice, awakening, and expounding or expressing the teaching. So each of you sitting in the meditation hall or sitting here listening to the Dharma is completely expressing your practice enlightenment right now. In your attention, in your posture, in your writing, in your scratching your eyebrow, this is the expression of practice enlightenment right now. Now, of course, it can deepen and widen. And how it's transmitted, again, that gets into what you were asking about, Håkon, the people who are authorized to do that. But from the beginning of your practice, you are practicing enlightenment and turning the Dharma wheel.

[29:35]

They're not separate. So this is kind of a radical way to think about things. But anyway, this is what Dogen says. There's another place where he talks about, in Gyobutsu Igi, The Awesome Presence of Active Buddhas, he talks about active Buddhas expressing the teaching. And then he also says that active Buddhas also listen to the teaching, of course. And to think that the person speaking the teaching and the person listening to the teaching, that one is superior or inferior is big delusion. So each of you, listening to me babbling about the dharma is completely part of the expression of dharma. There's no separation. Buddhas both speak and listen to the dharma. And I can see this in a way in Hongsha.

[30:39]

So there's a passage, we'll see if it This is the section on the Valley Spirit and the Wind Master on page 34 of this edition. Patchwork monks practice thoroughly without carrying a single thread. Open-mindedly sparkling and pure, they are like a mirror reflecting a mirror with nothing regarded as outside, without capacity for accumulating dust. They illuminate everything fully, perceiving nothing as an object. This is called taking up the burden from inside and is how to shoulder responsibility. So here he's taking the side of the subject of the stage of person. So he says patron monks is kind of a standard expression. We could say Zen practitioners anyway. This is the responsibility of Zen practitioners. They illuminate everything fully perceiving nothing as an object.

[31:40]

This is called taking up the burden from inside and is how to shoulder your responsibility. Wisdom illuminates the darkness without confusion. The way integrates with the body and does not get stuck. From this unstuck place, engaging and transforming at the appropriate opportunity, the wisdom does not leak out. So even in this seemingly exalted realm, there still is, of course, appropriate opportunities for engaging and transforming. the transformation of Buddha nature, the development and expression of the Buddha nature is ongoing. It doesn't happen just with one utterance. Nanyuek continued teaching after he said it cannot be defiled and ended up teaching Mazu who had 139 enlightened disciples. So the way integrates with the body and does not get stuck.

[32:41]

And again, this is a physical practice, so it involves our seeing and hearing and touching and tasting. It's not just some idea. So in a way, you're expressing the Buddhadharma right now by hearing my words. It's not about my words, and it's not about Hongzhe's words. It's just the sound. It's just resonating with some expression that comes from Hongzhe and is in English words here. There's another hokou from Dogen where he says to one of his favorite disciples, the Nanryonan, he says, okay, now I'm going to tell you the ultimate true teaching. Do you want me to read you that? Okay, I won't. And he says, just don't hold on to any of my words. Please forget these comments. So the point of this and the point of the Dharma is not that you understand some idea that's expressed in these words.

[33:48]

It's just that we're here together expressing this together. Anyway, the way it integrates, so I'm going to go back to the words of Hongzhi. just because they're beautiful. The way integrates with the body and does not get stuck. From this unstuck place, engaging and transforming at the appropriate opportunity, the wisdom does not leak out. Clearly, the way does not get stained. The valley spirit echoes the sound. So this is a Taoist expression, valley spirit, and it has kind of alchemical meditative implications, but also just as a poetic image it works. The valley spirit echoes the sound. The wind master walks in the sky, unobstructed and free beyond restraints. They do not depend on even subtle indicators, and their essential spirit cannot be eclipsed. fulfilled wander around and arrive at such a field.

[34:48]

The entire place secure, the entire place at leisure, the open field of the white ox is plain and simple of one color. If you chase the ox still he will not go away. You must intimately experience and arrive here. So this is a very exalted expression and yet for me it has this feeling of engaging in this kind of ceremonial play of the valley spirit echoing the sound. Questions or comments? And both sides are part of the mirror. But what you're talking about is the stage of person where we are the mirror and we meet whatever comes. And there's also the story about breaking the mirror. But yeah. Right. But then there's the side of precepts and taking responsibility for being the mirror.

[35:50]

And again, there's this balancing of not just two, but all the different sides of that. Well, this, yeah, now I remember it. It has to do with the Song of the Precious Mirror Samadhi. I'm not sure which translation you all use, but there's the line in this translation, whether teachings and approaches are mastered or not, reality constantly flows. Can you say something like that? So when, I forget, I think Kyogen was one of them, but this, Reyon and Kyogen, and I forget which was the teacher, but anyway, maybe it was Reyon was the student and said, what is reality constantly flows? Or maybe it was the teacher who asked that, I forget exactly, but he said it's like a mirror still and clear, just reflecting everything. And maybe the teacher says that and the student says, is there anything that goes beyond that?

[36:59]

And the teacher says, yes. And the student says, what is it? And the teacher says, break the mirror and come and I will see you. Yes? It also goes back to the Lotus Sutra. So, in the Lotus Sutra, there's the image of the burning house. So, you know, we have to investigate this wonder. We have to get involved in the melodrama of practice because the house is burning down. You know, there's loss and grief and corruption and wars and all that stuff is going on.

[38:06]

And in the Lotus Sutra, the man comes home and sees his kids playing in the burning house and they don't want to come out because they're having too much fun. So he says, well, you have to, you know, he says finally, come out, I have all these wonderful vehicles for you. There's a goat vehicle, and a deer vehicle, and I don't know, maybe a chicken vehicle. And they come out and they find there's only one vehicle, which is the white ox vehicle, and the ground, and everything is clear. So it's also a reference to that, but that's one of the sources for the ox herding pictures and for the whole use of the ox in Zen. Rhetoric, and one of my favorite lines about that is Nanshuan who said, the Buddhas and ancestors, this is Joshua's teacher said, the Buddhas and ancestors don't know it is. Wild cats and ox know it is. So you may recognize that from the Jomar Samadhi too. But yes.

[39:03]

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