A number of you have asked me about pain and I used to try to say something, you know, because there are ways actually to meet pain. There's some advice I could give you. But I think it's better if it's just a blank wall that you have to figure out how to meet it. Of course, if your mind is pretty calm, pain is not disturbing at all, as you've found out, I think. But sometimes our mind isn't calm, and pain comes and goes. So, without trying to adjust yourself, how do you meet things? That's more like the real question. We are not, through calmness,

[01:30]

you may find your true nature, but resume to your true nature, as Suzuki Yoshi said, but the point is not calmness, but our true nature, to resume to our true nature. So you shouldn't get caught in some special power or ability to stand pain, or calmness. Your true nature is wider than that. Returning to the poem of Setsho, which I ended with yesterday, Setsho's wrote Responding to Sun-Faced Buddha's, Moon-Faced Buddha's vaso statement, Setso wrote, five emperors, three honored ones, excuse me, Sun-Faced Buddha's, Moon-Faced Buddha's, five emperors, three honored ones, of what concern to us? For 20 years I have

[03:02]

sought for a single fitting line, single response to this statement he needs. For 20 years I have sought for a single fitting line. Before you entered the green dragon's cave, stooped and bent and stood up again. Do not clear-eyed monks, do not disregard these labors. What do you suppose Setsho meant by this poem? There's another poem from Chinese literature that This poem of Setsho's is kind of a... He took the line of emperors and honored ones from, and it's kind of some relationship. The other poem is... Leisurely, dressed in gorgeous...

[04:28]

robes, gorgeous clothes, falcon high on wrist, grand... grand and... grand composed grand as if not a care in the world, seed to harvest, endless toil. They know none of this, knowing none of this. Five emperors, three honored ones, of what concern to us? So Setso rather turns this poem around. Sun-Faced Buddhas, Moon-Faced Buddhas. Three. Five emperors, three honored ones, of what concern to us? For twenty years I sought a single fitting line, entered

[05:58]

the green dragon's cave for you. Stooped and bent and stood up again. Clear eyed monks do not disregard these labors. Do you suppose Satcho is talking about twenty years before he discovered vaso's meaning or twenty years after? How long is twenty years? What is he talking about?

[07:05]

Twenty years maybe means circle number five, you know, Aptoza. And the cave, you know, descending into the cave, it doesn't mean something, you know, wonderful, the Green Dragon Cave. It means something dismal and dark, some bitter, difficult, gritty experience. And again, it looks like he's pointing out each of these lines, again, this corresponds in some way, he's talking about the whole story. So it looks like here he's pointing out the unity of samsara and nirvana. But actually he means, he's fooling us a little, actually again he means five,

[08:18]

utter darkness. But this cave doesn't come into any category. You know, the first story of the Blue Cliff Records. Last year I talked about the six paramitas Seems like for all year. How long was it? A long time, anyway. Only six barometers. If I could talk about 100 blueprint records, at the rate I go, you know, I'll be an old man when I get to case number 50. Anyway, Some time ago I talked about case number one, and that emphasizes the first principle, emptiness. And case number two, about joshu and the real way is not difficult, emphasizes what a teacher is, and the relationship between teacher and disciple. And this one,

[09:44]

about Baso emphasizes who a teacher is and where a teacher resides and what is great activity. So the first story about Bodhidharma, number one, emphasizes again the Absolute. And the second story introduces the problem of the relative and the Absolute. And this one talks about maybe the relative or great activity. I remember Suzuki Roshi saying, if you, when you see a flower, you see something universal, you'll lose the meaning of each particular existence. It's a little like knowing when to stop. You know, you're at a restaurant, or you're eating something, some cookie, and you've had two or three, and it tastes so perfect, you decide to have one more. You know, but you know it's always too much, that one more.

[11:19]

So you should learn, when it tastes just perfect, you should stop. Very hard to learn. We always go to the, wow, if that one was perfect, I want one more. It's almost impossible to learn that. But to go that one more is to try to make something universal. You understand that? So we practice at that level, you know, of knowing when the particular of knowing each particular existence and not trying to make something universal. And you lose your way as soon as you make something universal. And the secret is in each particular existence which you of which with you there is no other. It's some seamless bond. If you can know the when to stop, when not to make something universal, you can follow your path. You won't have many questions. Everything will speak to you.

[12:55]

inanimate objects will speak to you. You will find your consciousness evolving into something beyond description. And as I talked to you, talked with you about your state of mind at the beginning of this session, state of mind something very fragile, Actually, I created maybe a problem for you by talking about state of mind. And you must have noticed that your state of mind is created by your experience. And that it's very difficult to follow our consciousness. to return with our consciousness. Your consciousness is there on each particular existence before you make something universal. And this

[14:25]

is alive and your teacher. So, sun-faced buddhas, moon-faced buddhas, five emperors, you know, five emperors and three honored ones are the founders of China. And one is, three honored ones, I guess one started the harvest, you know, the rice crop or something. Anyway, they represent the founders of China and you didn't dare say anything negative about them. In fact, this Blue Cliff Records, just because, Setsuo said, of what concern to us, the whole Blue Cliff Records was banned from being listed as a major, as part of the Chinese canon. The emperor, the clerk, you know, saying, out. It insults the emperor. So for a Chinese person it's a very heavy thing to say, of what concern to us, you know, the Dharmakaya body of George Washington or something like that. It's something much greater than that for a Chinese person.

[15:58]

In Japan, you know, it's very delicate to talk about the emperor. He is descended from the actual parents of the physical land of Japan, is their feeling. So even when he has some riotous reputation, they are very cautious about how you speak about the emperor. of what concern to us. So, in a way, you know, he's saying, you know, one instant Buddha, you know, one Kalpa Buddha. Each, both are equally Buddha, but he's saying, even so, not so important. Sometimes, Engo says, you know, sometimes we respect the five emperors and sometimes they're not

[17:14]

So important. And to me, again, it means what is your teacher? This particular moment which hasn't become the universal. This great activity. Not even Buddha, not even Baso. And if you can understand this, you can understand what from inside what Sekito meant and Baso meant and what your word, your word will be the patriarch's word. I have some old notes about this, you know, from Suzuki Roshi. I have in parentheses. He just swung his stick at me and said, you are Buddha. makes me remember the lecture completely. So you should be careful

[18:57]

of what your teacher says too, because right now you have your own nature, your own great activity. So through that great activity you enter your teacher and enter the lineage and resume your own true nature. Not so easy. Do not disregard these labors." Stooped and bent and stood up again. Ingo says, Who is he talking to? Who is he talking to? What use? What use is this? What a waste of time. Why is he saying this? Why here is he saying this? But, well, miracles do occur, he says. Then he said, Stop!

[20:37]

set back 3,000 miles. What are these guys trying to suggest to you, to amuse you with? Twelve centuries, you know, these people have been trying to amuse you. Mostly from two men, Sekito and Nanaku, Sekito is Dozan's line and Nanaku is Baso's line. And you have inherited both lines through many, many interconnections and through Dogon too. in this green dragon temple. Do you have some question? Something you'd like to talk about?

[22:17]

Well, where does the feeling you generate exist? In the body. So it must have something to do with it. Because I try to generate a stable, calm feeling, but I don't quite convince myself it's balanced. Me neither. You have a good jury. I'm unconvinced. Unconvinced. Which one? The one about the dragon or the falcon?

[23:59]

Some big jewel is there. He means he's going to get that jewel for you, but it keeps rolling out of sight. No, each line has its own existence. I don't know, what is he doing that for? The poem covers everything. Maybe in twenty years. you'll understand it. If you, if you, as I said in the beginning of the session, if you can be content to not understand, you know, you eventually, not so long, maybe, you'll understand. One instant, maybe, one, twenty years.

[25:31]

I don't know why we didn't. Why didn't we? I guess we didn't. You're not working in this session. Why do you keep applying for a job? We're a little crazy. We like each other very much, but we have to sit this way for so long. It's like a baseball signal or something. I almost didn't get it. Last night, I read the thing, and she wants to play something.

[27:03]

but I just wanted to talk to you. Let me just say that... Oh, just a quick one. That you just gave me a good reminder that you're a good person, and then there was more to it. I've read things like that, that you pass by, remind you of your mysterious joy of life, and that's what you've just mentioned. Did you hear what she asked? She went back to when we talked about the six patriarchs saying the mind is a field of blessedness. And Georgette asked if this corresponds to an actual experience which is indicated in one of Tosan's five ranks. Is that right? Why do you want to know that?

[28:31]

No, it's not included. I don't want to have an incident. Why? The Sixth Patriarch said it? Because that's what he felt like. Don't you ever feel like that? No? But you have some intuition you could. You know you could. What I talked about when I talked about that is, the Sixth Patriarch said, the mind is a field of blessedness. And I said, do you believe that? If so, what are you going to do? So, you looking for it in Tozan's ranks is not, you know, what I meant. Yeah. The matriarchs? Because they're waiting to begin with you.

[30:02]

The Patriarchs include all of mankind, or womankind. You know, you can look at it various historical ways, about sometimes a small village, sometimes a large nation. So just as the left hand does one thing and the right hand does another, you know, the right hand's job is to do such-and-such, and the left hand is such-and-such. So I don't think they experienced it the way we do now. It just seemed, well, it's the job of men to do such-and-such. It's the job of women to do something else. But it was expressing one being. She's a person in a lineage of people and usually it's been men who did it. It doesn't necessarily have to be so. It's more a matter of proportion. The proportion has been predominantly men, but it doesn't have to be.

[31:54]

And there are quite a number of women who were great teachers and had quite an impact on our lineage. There's a wonderful time, Suzuki Yoshi and Bishop Yamada impersonated a woman. And they took a pillow just like that, because nuns wear a little different type of hat. So I think Suzuki Yoshi played the man and he sat. Bishop Yamada put the pillow on his head. He came storming in and circled Suzuki Yoshi three times and demanded he say something and Suzuki Yoshi sort of messed up. The woman said, I hope that went to Bishop Yamada with his hat on. And we were all so cracked up, you know, we couldn't, I can't remember what it was all about. Can't remember the story. But it was incredible, they were having such a good time. But if you were worrying about distinction between men and women, you can't understand blues. What I'm talking about is not worrying about distinctions. Much more.

[33:23]

difficult distinctions to give up worrying about them, the difference between men and women. Also, I noticed that there's been changes in the field, like with Canada, I don't know if I'm breathing much at all, because I'm not as mindful of it. And what this means is when I step back and I'm breathing, does it start to change if you become mindful of it? Or is it always there? Is it always there? I just don't have some time for it to shift if you're just not aware of that? Do you understand what I'm asking?

[34:51]

You couldn't hear, right? First question is, sometimes you have some constriction in your breathing. Second question is, since you don't notice you're breathing when you're not noticing it, when you're not doing Sazen, you wonder if your breathing is like that when you're not noticing it, or is the act of noticing it, noticing, changing it? Your breathing is very sensitive, so it will have as many conscriptions, restrictions, constrictions in it as you have. And so your breathing is very interesting to be attentive to. It's extremely responsive.

[36:26]

And, of course, it's so responsive that you're noticing it. It will be affected. I have a difficult time going to the doctors because I never objectify my body. If I do objectify my body, It reminds me of years and years ago. What I mean is, my body is, I don't have some idea this is my heart, or I have some feeling, you know, I don't, my heart is not an object, or my arm. I just feel, you know, I don't notice that until I go to the doctors and he asks me about my heart or my arm. I can't think about it without affecting it, so it's very difficult for him to examine me. Because he examines my heart. If I think about my heart, it starts going slower, fast, and I can affect it, and my breathing. So it's rather... I haven't quite figured out what state of mind to bring to the doctor, so he can examine me as if I was not being examined. So if I think he's looking for a problem,

[37:57]

You know, in my heart. I'd oblige him with my heart skipping a beat. I went to the doctor recently. I had my first physical exam in about eight years or something like that. Because I've been in Japan, not because I'm so negligent. It was rather interesting. It happened because I never think about my body at all anymore. So it was some unusual experience to think about it, and the minute I did, it affected it completely. Of course you're breathing. You know, as you know scientists, in the end scientists are measuring their instruments. Because an instrument will find out what it's instrumented to find out.

[39:00]

and it will measure its own effect on what it's measuring. When you're trying to examine some minute particles, you know, just looking at it, you have to do something, you have to put light on it, you know, so you bombard it with light and that affects it. But that's true of everything, science is constantly measuring its own instruments. So we find out about the world that way. So it's, your question is very subtle, you know, how Does the eye see the eye? We find out, if you do satsang, that you're always measuring your own instrument, that you're always perceiving yourself. So how do you perceive what's really happening? So that kind of question you have to answer by your own observation of each particular existence, each moment of breathing. And you're the same as me, I have the same problem so how will I know about when my breathing is not being noticed so how can I give you an answer to that question how could anyone give you an answer that somebody wrote it down how would they know so there's some limit you know to what we can know

[40:28]

But if you can come to the point where your own consciousness does not interfere with you, you can know the answer to that kind of question. your own noticing doesn't interfere. So what kind of consciousness is that which doesn't interfere with anything? Is great activity. Yeah. Slowly. Quickly. Medium. You're a time. You can't lose time or etc. You create time and space yourself with everything. Yes?

[42:00]

Late? Oh my God. The other day I said I wasn't lazy and I've been getting some flack on that. Because a number of people said that's patently false. And my wife said that she would love to increase my laziness quotient. But I'm quite pleased that I've disguised how lazy I am. That I've fooled even my wife. I had to... I'm quite lazy, you know. And I discovered that laziness, you know, aside from factors of hesitation and fear, there's just some laziness in it. Some taste for the universal. Or some aesthetic characterization. But I found that this laziness, following this laziness, was rather crappy, you see what I mean? So I had to. So I began, I guess I, whenever I felt lazy, I did that very thing I didn't, what I was lazy about. Till it became such a automatic response. I'm completely programmed. If I feel lazy about something,

[43:28]

almost, not always, but almost immediately do it. So in that way I don't look so lazy. And now, anyway, I have too much to do to be lazy. I don't have time. I would like to have some time to be lazy. And I'm hoping that you all will take care of Zen Center so well by next year that I can be lazy. Laziness is quite wonderful if it's fallow time. Yes?

[44:31]

Well, you'd have to find out what isn't consciousness in order to ask that question again someday.

[45:06]

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