Good morning, everyone. Today we are continuing our practice commitment period study of the Mahamalakirti Sutra on one of my favorite chapters, Chapter 6, The Inconceivable Liberation. But first, I must acknowledge, I would like to acknowledge that this is an auspicious day. Aside from Ramadan and Passover and Easter Sunday, we are celebrating Buddha's birthday. So the traditional date of celebrating that in East Asia is April 8th. And so we will have as our service after the Dharma talk the inconceivable lifespan of Buddha to go with the inconceivable liberation And during that chat, people in the room will bathe the baby Buddha who's sitting in front of our altar.

[01:08]

So this is a traditional way of celebrating Buddha's birth. So this chapter on inconceivable liberation is once my favorite in the whole sutra. One of them, certainly. And I don't imagine I'm going to completely cover it today. So at least some of the chapters in the sutra we will, and some of the themes we will talk about during the practice period more than once. So this begins in a very humorous name, as is part of the sutra, many parts of the sutra. So the disciples of Bodhisattvas and so forth have been, in the previous chapter, the constellation of the Inhal, which Douglas will be speaking about tomorrow evening, many people, disciples, and deities, and mystical beings, as well as Bodhisattvas, enter the room of Malakirti.

[02:29]

to check, at the Buddha's request, to check with him about his illness. And partly we'll see in the sutra, it's, so Vimalakirti is, we're not thinking historical figure, but when this sutra was introduced to China, it became very popular because it's about a totally awakened layperson, not the usual monastics. And the emperor of China sent an emissary to India to find the room of the Malakirti to see how large it was. And So this Chinese person went to India, to the city of Vanshali, and asked after, where was the house of Imam al-Kirti?

[03:30]

And of course, the Indian people sort of gave over whatever, because they knew that it wasn't a historical thing, but they sent him to a space, and he measured the room there, where all of the drama that we're going to talk about today, and in And so chapters occurred. And they found that it was 10 feet by 10 feet, hojo in Sano-Japanese. And so that is the name for the abbot's quarters in all of Zen, all of Shaolin Zen. And it's also the name given to the abbots of Zen temples, hojo-san in Japanese. So when I was in Japan, the abbots of places where I was practicing were addressed to Shōjū-sō because of the Molokai-jū. So what happens is that it starts off, thereupon the venerable Shāri-būjī, one of the ten great disciples of the Buddha, who figures prominently as a kind of

[04:42]

scapegoat or whatever in the suitcase, had the thought, there's not even a single chair in this house. Who are these disciples of Bodhisattvas? Where are they going to sit? And of course, the Malakirti read the thoughts of the Venerable Shariputra and said, Reverend Shariputra, did you come here for the sake of the Dharma or did you come here for the sake of a chair? Shariputra replied, of course, they came for the sake of the Dharma, not for the sake of a chair. The Mahamudra continued, Reverend Shariputra, he who is invested in the Dharma is not interested in his own body, much less in a chair. Reverend Shariputra, he who is interested in the Dharma has no interest in matter, sensation, intellect, motivation, or consciousness. He has no interest in these aggregates or in the elements of the sense medium. Interested in the Dharma, he has no interest in the realm of desire, the realm of form or matter, or the realm of the formless realm.

[05:57]

These are described as three aspects of reality. Interested in the Dharma, he is not interested in attachment to the Buddha, attachment to the Dharma, or attachment to the Sangha. Reverend Shari Kutra, the Mala Kirti continues, he who is interested in the Dharma is not interested in recognizing suffering, abandoning its origination, realizing its cessation, or practicing the path, which is a noble truth, of course. Why? Malkirji continues, the dharma is ultimately without formulation and without verbalization. So he goes on vilifying Shri Kutya for his concern for his comfort and for having a good chair. He says, Reverend Shariputra, the Dharma is calm and peaceful. Those who are engaged in production and destruction are not interested in the Dharma, are not interested in solitude, but are interested in production and destruction.

[07:03]

He goes on like this. Furthermore, the Dharma is without taint and free of defilement. He was attached to anything, even to liberation. He's not interested in the Dharma, but is interested in the taint of desire. The dharma is not an object, key statement. He who pursues objects is not interested in the dharma, but is interested in objects. And he goes on like this. He who seeks to associate with the dharma is not interested in the dharma, but is interested in association. So I'm not reading all of this, He ends up saying, so Reverend Shariputri, if you are interested in the Dharma, you should take no interest in anything. That's quite a statement. Take no interest in anything. It's a German translation. I would say this means to not attach to anything, to not be invested in anything, to not seek the Dharma in some thing or object.

[08:13]

And he makes this clear as it goes on. Then Vimalakirti, this great awakened white person, says to the crown prince of wisdom, Manjushri, who was the person who accepted Buddha's challenge to go and speak with Vimalakirti. Everybody else was afraid of Vimalakirti. So Vimalakirti says to Manjushri, Manjushri, you have already been in innumerable hundreds of thousands of Buddha fields throughout the universe. throughout the universes of the ten directions, in which Buddha field did you see the best lion thrones with the finest qualities? So we talked about in the beginning of the sutra that when a Buddha awakens, there is manifested around them a Buddha field.

[09:14]

And there are many Buddha fields. In all 10 directions and beyond. Numerable countless belief fields. Friday night, we didn't flower in a city that came to a chapter where there are. Amazing numbers of numbers of numbers. David Ray, what was the largest number of you? Well, it was maybe 14 trillion or something like that. No, 14 quatrillion. Quintillion, maybe. Quintillion. We're about halfway through. But then it goes on to, what, non-millions? That's what Matt Strike said. Yeah. Okay. Anyway. So there are all these Buddha fields all around. And not just Ray. Crown Prince of Wisdom spent all of them. He knows what's happening. He goes everywhere to spread wisdom. Manjushri replies, O noble sir, the Malakirti, if one crosses the Buddha fields in the east, which are more numerous than in all the grains of the sand of 32 Bhanji's rivers, one will discover a universe called Mirvaja.

[10:24]

which is roughly not Sumeru, Meru, Lamp. There dwells a Tathagata, a Buddha called Merupratipatajya, the Sumeru Lamp King. His body measures 8,400,000 weeks in height, and the height of his crown is 6,800,000 weeks. The Bodhisattvas there are 4,200,000 leagues tall, and their own thrones are 3,400,000 leagues high. Noble, sir, the finest and most superb thrones exist in that universe, Narudvaja, which is the Buddha field of the Tathagata, the Buddha, Narudvajaparaja. Now he's talking about leads. The Buddhist body is 84,000, at least 400,000 meters.

[11:27]

And as I recall, a league is defined by the distance an army can march in one day. So that's one week. So anyway, these terms are no big. At that moment, from all purity, having focused himself in concentration, in samadhi, performed a miraculous feat such that the Lord, to top the Meru Pradipat Raja, in his universe, in his Buddhafield, sent to this universe 3,200,000 drones. These drones were so tall, spacious, and beautiful that the Bodhisattvas, the great disciples, the Brahmas, all the deities, and the magical figures who were there listening in the room to the Malakirti and Manjushri. But never before seen alike, the thrones descended from the sky and came to rest in this room of the Malakirtis.

[12:38]

The 3,200,000 thrones arranged themselves without crowding and the house seemed to enlarge itself accordingly. So We're entering into the realm of the inconceivable here. The great city of Aishala did not become obscured. Neither did the land of Jambavipa. Jambavipa is the name traditionally in the Buddhist cosmology from the southern continent. So we might think of that as India, but that's actually our world. The world did not... interfere with the world of four continents. Everything appeared just as it was before. And the Malachites said to the young prince, Manjushu, Manjushu, let the Bodhisattvas be seated on these thrones, having transformed their bodies to a suitable size. So all of this is happening in this 10-foot square room of the Malachites where he's lying on his sickbed.

[13:42]

But the beginner Bodhisattvas were not able to transform themselves to sit upon the thrones that Hrmalakirti taught these beginner Bodhisattvas of teaching that enabled them to attain the five super-knowledges. And having attained them, they transformed their bodies to a height of 4,200,000 leagues and sat upon the thrones. But still the great disciples were not able to seat themselves. So... Scooping ahead a little bit. The Malakir de-instructed these disciples who were thrown with consternation to sit on his throat. Bow down to the Tathagatamaru Pradiparaja, and you will be able to take your seat. The great disciples bowed down to this Buddha and his disciples. And Shariputra went on, you know, noble sir, it is astonishing that these hundreds, that these thousands of pharaohs, so big and high, can enter into such a small house as yours.

[14:52]

Amalakitya replied, Reverend Shariputra, for the Tathagata and the Bodhisattvas, there is a liberation called inconceivable. So this is the teaching I want to talk about, this inconceivable liberation. The Bodhisattva who lives in it, the inconceivable liberation, can put the king of mountains, Mount Sumeru, which is so high, so great, so noble, so vast, into a mustard seed. They can perform this feat without enlarging the mustard seed and without shrinking Mount Sumeru. I don't know if Mount Sumeru was supposed to be a name for Mount Everest, but there are many high mountains in the Middle East. The deities of the assembly before kings of the heavens do not even know where they are. Only those beings who are destined to be disciplined by miracles see and understand the putting of the king of Mount Sumeru into this muster ship.

[16:04]

that Reverend Charlie Pooker is an entrance to the domain of the inconceivable liberation of the body suffers. So, this variability of space and of dimension of size is one aspect of this inconceivable liberation that the biology actually teaches. There are elements of this in other sutras. Certainly, when we get to the final book or chapter and the culmination of that, then we flower in a sutra, which we do a monthly reading on the first Friday evening of the month. Everyone is welcome. On our Brazil leg, we will see another example of this. Our idea of size is just our idea.

[17:07]

This actually also applies to time, and we will get to that. But the is teaching about going beyond our usual conventional idea of what space is. And this brings up my favorite Buddhist movie. And I don't want to give away any spoilers. So has anyone not seen the movie Men in Black? Oh, Paula hasn't seen it. Well, as a Star Trek fan, you should really see it. Men in Black. What's his name? Will Smith. He was disgraced at one of the Oscar events. He disgraced himself. He disgraced himself, yes.

[18:09]

Thank you. But anyway, Men in Black is especially... I don't want to give away any spoilers. You have to watch until the end because especially at the end there's a teaching about this inconceivable liberation and the inconceivability of spatial dimensions. So I really want to . Just because of the inconceivable liberation. And there are a lot of things in that movie besides the . That's the way it is, this kind of Buddhist teaching. Anyway, Nirmala Kirti goes on to say, a Bodhisattva who is informed by this invisible liberation can pick up with his right hand.

[19:10]

I don't know if some of them were left-handed. Anybody here left-handed? I don't know. Well, maybe they could do the same with their left hand, but in the sutra it talks about the right hand. such as Bodhisattva, to pick up with their right hand this billion-world galactic universe. A whole universe. This universe, of course. There are many. But they could pick it up as if it were a potter's wheel and spinning around, throw it beyond universes as numerous as the souls of the Bhajans. Without the living beings there and knowing their motions or its origin, and he can then catch it and put it back in place. Or his universe, or anyway, I don't know how to talk about this. It's just wild. This is unsettling our usual conceptions of how we conceive reality.

[20:16]

so that this Bodhisattva can catch it and put it back in its place without the living beings suspecting their coming and going, and yet the whole operation is visible. Furthermore, Sharaputra, there are beings who become disciplined after an immense period of evolution, and there are also those who are disciplined after a short period of evolution. The Bodhisattva who lives in the inconceivable Liberation for the sake of disciplining these living beings who are disciplined through immeasurable theories of evolution can make the passing of a week seem like the passing of an eon. Has anybody ever had a week that seemed like it was like an eon? Sometimes this happens, maybe especially in this machine field. And they can make the passing of an eon seem like the passing of a week for those who are disciplined through short periods.

[21:23]

So some can, through a gradual period of evolution, actually perceive a week to be passing of an eon, and some actually perceive an eon to be Anyway. Likewise, such a Bodhisattva can place all living beings in the palm of his right hand, or maybe left hand in Jerry's case, and can show them with the supernatural speed of thought all the Buddha feels without ever leaving his own Buddhafield. So this is, again, how this applies to time as well as space. So, there's more. A Bodhisattva who lives in inconceivable liberation can magically transform any kind of living being into a universal monarch,

[22:46]

or a world systems king, or a disciple, or a shravata, a solitary sage, a bodhisattva, even into a Buddha. This bodhisattva could transform miraculously all the cries and noises, superior and mediocre and inferior, of all living beings under ten directions into the voice of the Buddha. So this inconceivable liberation, the point of it is that it goes far beyond our usual conceptualizations of reality of the world. How we usually think of the world is just how we usually think of the world. It's not reality. According to this scripture, according to the model here, the awakened way will be separate. Suzuki Roshi said, the world is its own magic.

[23:52]

Somebody in Shakespeare says there's much more. What, you did an example? Yes. Can you quote that, Steve? What, there's... Yes, so, okay. So, you know, there has been awareness in our world system, on our planet, of this dimension of inconceivability that tomorrow came to celebrate. Yes, another movie recommendation. Everything, everywhere, all at once. It's wild. It's a wild life. But if you can stand it, check it out. Anyway, so all of this is happening and then poor Mahakashyapa, the ancestor of Mahakashyapa, who is in our lineage, at some point in this practice period, we will shout the names of Buddha.

[25:02]

And he is the first ancestor of Chag. So, after Shakyamuni Buddha. But he was just a disciple. He was one of the ten great disciples, historically, of Shakyamuni Buddha. But when Shakyamuni Buddha hears this teaching of the inconceivable liberation of the Bodhisattvas, he was amazed. He says, well, he says a few things to the Bible character, and he says, Who is there among the wise who, hearing about this inconceivable liberation, does not conceive the spirit of unexcelled perfect enlightenment? As for us, whose faculties are deteriorated, talking about the Arhats, the great disciples, the personally awakened ones, our faculties are deteriorated like a burned and rotten seed.

[26:07]

What else can we do if we do not become receptive to the great vehicle? We, all the disciples and solitary sages of Sri Lanka, hearing this teaching of the Dharma, should utter a cry of regret that would shake this billion-world galactic universe. As for the Bodhisattvas, when they hear this inconceivable liberation, they should be joyful. like a young crown prince when he takes the crown of his anointed. And so how else to hear about this? Just hearing about it, we can't quite conceive of it. It's just this inconceivable liberation is beyond our faculties. We are the faculties and disciples, but those of us on the Bodhisattva path, doing Bodhisattva practice, might hear this liberation that is in the scope of the inconceivable and might feel joy.

[27:23]

How wonderful. Things aren't what we think they are. There is more possibility than we could possibly imagine. And when Manaka Shappal said this, It says, 32,000 gods conceived the spirit of unexcelled perfect origin. Then Himalakirti said to the ancestor Mahakashyapa, Reverend Mahakashyapa, the Maras, the demons who plight the devil in the innumerable universes of the ten directions are all Bodhisattvas dwelling in the inconceivable liberation.

[28:27]

They are playing the devil in order to develop living beings through their skill and liberative technique. All the miserable beggars, it continues, who come to the Bodhisattvas of the innumerable universes of ten directions to ask for a hand, a foot, an ear, a nose, some blood, muscles, and so forth. These are all Bodhisattvas. demonstrated the conceivable liberation. And then this chapter ends with one of my favorite teachings in the Mahayana, which I found encouraging. It is not possible without special allowance that an ordinary person can thus attack and deprive a Bodhisattva.

[29:28]

Just as a donkey could not muster an attack on a wild elephant, even so, Reverend Mahapashyapa, one who is not himself a Bodhisattva cannot harass a Bodhisattva. So as Bodhisattva practitioners, what does this mean? Only another Bodhisattva can harass or hassle a Bodhisattva. So the people that you think of as most difficult, do you feel harassed by? According to this, also Bodhisattvas, only one who is himself a Bodhisattva can harass the Bodhisattva. And only a Bodhisattva can tolerate the harassment of the Bodhisattva.

[30:31]

This is the introduction to the power of the knowledge of the liberative technique of the Bodhisattvas who live in the conceivable liberation. So, You see, this is actually a pretty wild thing to say. I mean, I know some of you may have felt hassled or harassed by particular beings in your life. But according to this, they are just testing you to see if you can have, what I talked about last week, Amitara Samyakso, no, Anupadake Dharmakshanti. Patience and tolerance of the ungraspability, the unknowability of all so-called things. And I think in the previous chapter it talks about how there are no such thing as things.

[31:38]

You think this is a dead object? Not according to the Sutra. There are no such things as objects or things. So, I'm tempted myself to apply this to the beings who are harassing and hassling all of us in consciousness. So these Tennessee fascist politicians who have expelled members of their assembly who were elected just for questioning the gun laws that allow massacres of young people. Could it be that these horrible fascist politicians are just testing us?

[32:49]

and arresting us to see if we can respond as police officers and challenge our society's weekly mass shootings. And on that Sunday, Dale Wright will be here talking about the politics of freedom. who's also prominent in Mahakirti Sutra. And is it possible that the fascist politicians who are threatening the safety and the lives of women all over our country are providing them with appropriate medical care because they value the lives of fetuses more than the lives of children after they're born? Is it possible they are just Bodhisattvas in disguise, pass on us to test us to see if we can respond, activate the response to this cruelty?

[34:05]

So I just, it occurs to me to wonder about that, hearing about only Bodhisattva can pass on other Bodhisattvas. And here we are all Bodhisattva practitioners. Of, you know, maybe just beginning Bodhisattva practitioners. That's good enough. So this inconceivability, this seeing spatial dimensionality and temporal dimensionality as how we usually see them, as being just a small aspect of reality. Mount Seymour, the highest mountain in Indian cosmology, could fit in a musket suit.

[35:09]

The military could toss the whole universe around and capture it and put it down The beings in that universe are not aware of it, unless there are beings who can benefit from seeing all of this and develop bodhicitta and be inspired towards bodhisattva practice. This is what this chapter is saying. It's really wild. If you really take it seriously, this is beyond, beyond, beyond. So, part of our challenge is this other part of the Dharmakshanti, which I'll keep talking about. This patience and tolerance of the inconceivability, the ungraspability of so-called things, of so-called spatial dimensions and temporal dimensions.

[36:20]

This is This is a wild teaching. This is a teaching that goes beyond anything. Well, the weather made me imagine some of this. Dr. Who's another example. Yes, there are examples. Dr. Who travels through time, through space, to our distant future, to distant past. Yes, Dr. Who's good. And there are other examples of this in our culture of seeing that our usual way of conceiving of time and space and people and so-called things is just a fragment of reality. So I feel like they will at some point during this practice, go back to this chapter and talk about it more because it's, well, it's just one moment.

[37:28]

It's really helpful actually, but it's challenging. You might say, oh, this is just some Indian story, cosmological fiction. Anyway, I would encourage you to consider It's a little teaching. So maybe I'll stop and invite comments, responses, reflections from people who are joining us. And people in this room. So comments, questions, responses, please feel free. Yes, please. Well, I have a question about the passage you read about the Molotov talking about the Dharma and not attaching anything else.

[38:32]

Can you hear her on Zoom? I can't see if people are saying this or not. Yes, okay, good. Yes, I'll speak up. Yeah, so I said the passage about where the Mala Kirti is talking about the Dharma and non-attachments and anything else. And I mean, in the spirit of the non-duality, non-duality, is he exaggerating so much that you come to question what he's saying? I mean, I'm asking if somebody is frankly like, I can meditate in the middle of a mess, but that's not necessarily a good thing. Well, it might be that your mess is a manifestation of what he's talking about. And allowing you to see that you can meditate So our practice is not about, so this is an important point. Our practice is not about making everything, you know, kind of clear and clean and nice and neat.

[39:33]

I mean, that's good to do that. Well, yeah, that's important. But that's not the point of inconceivable liberation. Inconceivable liberation includes that our world is a mess. Not just your room. And how do we be upright and present and see the wonder of the universe. Right in the middle of that, but not passively. How do we respond to that? How do we help? Of course, that's part of the Bodhisattva practice. That's the point of the Bodhisattva practice. And the Malakirti, again, is living in Vaishali, a big city like Chicago, at least for that, you know, in that time. And He's engaging in all the various complexities of that world. So our practice is not to hide away from the world and not to hide away from suffering and chaos and messes.

[40:40]

Well, if you'll indulge me for another moment. Please. I mean, the other thing that, what you're talking about, reminding me of, so there's this... So this is from the Hindi language, the Mahabharata. So the java means an action of that. There's one scene where Arjuna's meditating in a forest, and he's very still. He doesn't move. But the power of his meditation is so strong that it raises the heat in the forest, sort of a metaphor for climate change. And all the beings get uncomfortable, including the demons that are in the forest. And then this one little demon comes and he starts, you know, because he's upset, because he's uncomfortable. And the meditation has made him uncomfortable. And the demon, you know, Arjuna, like, doesn't move at all. He's very still. And the demon's like, you know, flailing around and throwing mud at Arjuna.

[41:46]

And... You know, Arjuna just, you know, sits there and ignores it. But finally, you know, he gets a little bit annoyed. And then he, like, whips his little finger like that. And then that makes the demon go, you know, fall down. And I mean, he, you know, when you're talking, I think that whole story, it's about... You can see it as being about skillful means. But also, that demon, from this perspective, is a bodhisattva. Yeah, right. So, yeah. But the thing is, the part where you were talking about, you know, how we react to the people that are hassling us, I think... you know, the idea that a considered small reaction can produce a big effect.

[42:48]

Yes. But it's the power and the, you know, all the commitment and thought and skillful means that go into that little flick of the wrist. Yes. And thank you for that. And that, um, It's an example of inconceivability because we don't think that anything we can do will make a difference in the rest of the world. But a little flick of the finger? Right, just like a butterfly's wings flutter and it causes a hurricane, essentially. Yeah, so part of our practice, and this is emphasized in Center's End, is that we don't know the outcome of our activity. But our activity in response to the harassment of demon bodies out there can make a big difference.

[43:49]

And we don't necessarily see the outcome. So thank you very much, Eve. Anybody else, comments, perspectives, questions about all this, Jan? I did not like the change. in what we call our theme song when we said that, okay, something is endless and we've got to end them. And you changed that to cut through them. Could you give me? Yes, delusions aren't exhaustible. We've got to cut through them. Yes. And that's literally what the sign of Japanese says. It doesn't say to end them. Oh, it doesn't say to end them. It's just we've got to cut through them. So thank you for bringing that up. This is a change that my teacher, Tenshin Renishin, made at Greenville a while ago. I finally decided, yes, we need to do this too.

[44:51]

Literally, it doesn't say we've got to end delusions. This is an important point. This is an important Darwin point. We don't vow to and all delusions. Because delusions and awakening are not separate. So part of what this Kamalakirti Sutra is going to teach us is non-duality. That we live in the world of a mess and delusions. And we have our own delusions. We all have our delusions that interfere with our being all that we can be. And the point isn't to get rid of them. The point is to see through them, to cut through them, to not be caught by our delusions, to not act on our delusions, to awaken to the reality that delusion and awakening are interactive. Delusions help us to realize awakening.

[45:53]

Awakening helps us to see through delusions. But it's not about, it's not about Killing all the bad people. So-called. That's just our delusion. It's not about ending delusion. It's about not being caught by delusion. This is a really important point of practice. So I appreciate you bringing it up. We vow to see through, to cut through, to move through all of our own delusions and delusions in the world. And awakening is how we do that. And I had another one. Okay. We were commenting on the people who are trying to deprive women of health care. And I've just read a book by Ann Elizabeth Moore where she points out that 70% of all the people who suffer from

[46:58]

autoimmune diseases are women. And autoimmune diseases are previous, you know, previous illnesses. So that if you get an insurance policy that doesn't have to treat previous illnesses, this cuts out a huge population of women who suffer and men too who suffered from autoimmune diseases. And I just thought that was an important point of realizing that certain kinds of insurance are given are very much anti-feminist because of the, and in some places, A previous condition can be called pregnancy. And so I really wanted to talk about the fact that anti-feminism in health care is... It's not anti-feminism only.

[48:22]

It's anti-women. whether women believe in feminism or not, there's a tremendous persecution of women that rule our society. It's horrible. And there's totally, our healthcare system is a total fraud, or a lot of it is fraud. There are good doctors and there are advances in medical systems, but people in this country don't, compared to other so-called developed industrial countries, our healthcare system is horrible. And many people become homeless or bankrupt because they have to have an operation. Anyway, yes. So yes to everything you're saying. And the politicians who are composing this stuff maybe to help us awaken. So black people were, of course, under attack.

[49:24]

You know, in Tennessee, they'd spelled the two black, the two black legislators who spoke up about reasonable gun control, adding insults after people in their city were, you know, three nine-year-olds and three adults were slaughtered. So, but the woman who objected was because she's white, she'd be allowed with a stim. And she wasn't a slap. Well, at any rate. Yeah, so all of that's happening. We should not pretend it's not happening. And thank you for, you know, emphasizing that again. Women are being treated horribly. There are black women Young black men, but other black people murdered by police every week. And they're good policemen too, but it's just, anyway, our society is being harassed.

[50:25]

And from the point of view of this inconceivable liberation, those during the harassment of Bodhisattvas tested us. But anyway, whether you want to believe that or not, this teaching of inconceivable liberation is to go beyond and use your way of thinking. So other comments, questions, perspectives about inconceivable liberation? Chris's hand is up online. Hi, Chris. Thank you. I wanted to first kind of respond to the question healthcare system being anti-woman, and I would say it's anti-human. In this country, it's inhumane. Those are my biases. As somebody in healthcare, I might add. Yes. Yeah, okay. So, I mean, compared to other countries, it's atrocious. Having said that, the comment about autoimmune disease and pre-existing conditions, those are not synonymous.

[51:34]

Autoimmune diseases are their own separate entity, but if you develop an autoimmune disease, it's not a pre-existing condition. The question I had back to your Dharma talk is the inconceivable liberation of the malakirti is teaching and because he's always in cahoots with the buddha is this a call to let go of our sense of our physical world but the whole notion of these gigantic thrones and huge beings that it's just let it go because it's this is not not graspable Thank you. Thank you for that question. I would say it's not a call to let go of our physical world. It's a call to take care of our physical world because our physical world is in this dimension of inconceivability.

[52:38]

So thank you for asking that. Hearing about these vast dimensions of space and time and so forth doesn't mean we should ignore the reality of this here space and world in our particular lives. It's actually the opposite. It means that in our particular space and world, in our particular life, in our particular concerns about our life and our society, are contained exactly in the delusions, we could say, in the delusions of this limited space here in Chicago, although I see people online from Michigan and New Mexico and I'm not sure where else. Here, in this life, this is the place where we take care and where we practice.

[53:44]

But then this here place, even if it's minute compared to this other world system, the universe, where they have these huge stones, our life and our world includes all of that. So we actually, I really appreciate the question because it's easy to think that way. Oh, the world is so vast. The dimensions of time are so vast and also so minute that we don't have to pay attention to our ordinary world. And it's exactly the opposite. It's right in our ordinary world that all of this is happening. It's not separate. So this teaching of non-duality is really complex and intricate and challenging to us. So that's my response. I don't know, you know, this is the danger of these kinds of sutras that present this vast array and panorama of this wild reality.

[55:00]

That wild reality is not separate from the ordinary events of our lives. So thank you. Can I follow up to this comment? Yes, Kathy, please. I thought the same thing, and I think of it more as maybe the sutra is bringing attention to our permanence. That's true, too. Can everybody online hear her? As I was listening to his teachings today, I was thinking about some of the teachings I have from a Dallas teacher in New South, who would sometimes describe The venerable, awesome previous leaders who were now somewhere in my mind, in the sky somewhere, bigger than life, still in the spirit world, still somewhere. And also, when I go to acupuncture, my acupuncturist husband is a Dallas teacher.

[56:06]

There is one side of the room, there are 16 tall statues of Buddha. And so there's this sense of its spirit and life, and it does do something about bringing our attention to the part that is impermanent, I think. that there is a larger, there's layers here that maybe we can't battle, but maybe it's usefulness to battle it for that reason. Well, I think it's useful to be aware of the different dimensionalities, large and small, short times, tiny times and long times, that they are connected. And you mentioned the spirit world. I think that's a good way of thinking about it. Martin Luther King occurred to me.

[57:12]

He's still present, calling for justice for working people and black people, and we still invoke him. His spirit is still alive. And many, many, many, many, many other beings chucking the Buddha himself. So the spirit of seeing through how we get caught by the world and people who have helped us to see through our usual respect us on the world, yes. So it is impermanent, but also it turns that impermanence to seeing this vast array of time. I don't know if that makes sense, but yeah. So thank you. Other comments, questions?

[58:16]

Responses, somebody back there. Is that John? Oh, Jerry, hey. I love the beginning of what you read when Shari Putra says, you know, there aren't enough chairs for people here. And the whole thing makes me laugh. This is to say, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. People are uncomfortable. Don't worry about it. We should only focus on the down one, which says to me, we shouldn't think about our real physical world. I don't think that's what it's about. It's not. So, yeah, right. He makes fun of Charlie Kutcher for his concern about where am I going to sit here? Of course, we take care of the particulars, but our idea of the particulars is limited. So it doesn't mean that we don't try and have seats for everybody. But he's pointing to something that goes beyond our usual concerns.

[59:26]

that care about the Dharma. The Dharma is Buddhist teaching. The Dharma is truth. The Dharma is reality. And here we're getting this view of the inconceivability of reality. The reality is not just what we think it is. Reality goes far beyond it. So I don't think it means, Don't take care of making the world more comfortable for those who are suffering, but see beyond our usual ideas of comfort and suffering in the world. That's how I take it anyway. But I appreciate your question. In fact, it's really important that we question all of this. That's the practice.

[60:30]

David Ranges or somebody. No, I had a follow-up on that. I'm switching from one camera to the other. Just... I've just been finding as I read this text that I'm more and more interested in the figure of Shariputra and Reverend Shariputra, worthy of reverence, this revered arhat. And so in a way, he seems like a stooge. But in another way, as Jerry just said, he's the one who notices, oh, all these people are coming. We need to provide for them. We need to set stuff up. And Vimala Kirti kind of twists it because, you know, Sharan Kutcher didn't say, where am I going to sit? He said, how are we going to seat these people? And then Vimala Kirti uses its cosmic Amazon Prime and gets these immense chairs delivered instantaneously. But I don't know. I kind of think that, you know, maybe Shari Kutra is more in cahoots with this whole enterprise than I had thought at first. You know, that he too is a bodhisattva in disguise as an arhat.

[61:33]

Very good. That's what Dogen says. So, yeah, this part, I think I said this earlier. in the first talk about the sutra, that the arhas, those worthy of praise, those who have found personal liberation, are kind of put down in the sutra somewhat. I'm seeing now more and more that actually in the sutra also, there's a way in which they are acknowledged. In other sutras, like the Lotus Sutra, it's very explicit that Shravakas, those who are just studying the teaching, and Pratyekabuddhas, solitary Buddhas, and Arhats, who are kind of, in this sutra, seem to be

[62:38]

put down for the sake of the Bodhisattva practice. But then in the Lotus Sutra, exactly as you said, they are acknowledged as Bodhisattvas, you know, kind of hidden because they are helping those who are inspired by them. So, yes. And there's even a passage in Dogen's extensive directories, he takes an example of Subuti, another one of these disciples, who's put down much by the Mala Kirti. And Dogen says very strongly, the Mala Kirti doesn't see me. Subuti actually really understands better than he does. So, yes, with all of these Mahayana texts, question what's going on? That's part of the practice. Look and see what's going on beyond the usual conceptual reading of them. Oh, hi.

[63:44]

Or that everyone has a role to play. Yes. And that we often think that it's like a teacher and a student going back and forth, but it's not only those two individuals, it's everyone in the environment that's creating the learning environment. Yes. So everyone has a role to play in that learning environment. So this is a teaching about Sangha, that we're all in it together. It's not that I have all the answers up here and that's not the point at all. I can talk, I can babble about these things because I've been studying it for a long time, but it's up to each one of you to make it real. So yes, and together we help. So there are people in the Sangha who are doing all kinds of wonderful things. And each of them is important. Teaching martial arts, being psychological counselors, being teachers in great schools and colleges.

[64:46]

There's just many people and chaplains and social workers. And Anyway, all of us together are doing one piece of the inconceivable liberation. So the inconceivable liberation was about Sangha practically speaking. So thank you for that. It's more of a question, but it might be semantic, but I find it interesting. Is the suture proposing that there are just like infinite perspectives on what's happening in reality, or that there are limited perspectives that get a piece of a genuine larger reality that is beyond comprehension?

[65:48]

Is the proposition that there is an uncomprehensible reality? that our perspectives are within, or is the proposition that there are just innumerable perspectives that may be grander or smaller in scope, you know, and that there's as many of them as can be imagined more than that? Yes. So I knew you were going to do this. No, but yes, thank you for that. Because, yeah, so you're asking what is reality? Yeah. Is there one ultimate reality? Or are there lots and lots and lots and lots of no realities? Well, but you're saying in the perception of synonymous reality. I'm saying that there are, that we each have our own perspective. Okay. So, and that's important, and that's wonderful. And from the point of view of the sutra, I guess it's saying that Buddha, or the Dharmakaya, or all the Buddhas in all the, you know, there's so many quadrillions or whatever of Buddha fields,

[67:06]

And each one has a Buddha, but Buddha sees it all. So that's kind of one of the perspectives in the sutra. So one of the perspectives that there is, is that there is an all-pervasive perspective? Okay. Yes. But following what you said about Buddha field, so is there a Sangha field? Do Sanghas make fields? um just i mean otherwise the collective perception of a song that an action based on that does that make itself a reality yeah and here we are in our lincoln's present though and our online zendo uh in our soccer fields for our soccer field the ancient dragon soccer yes let me i just want to say yes the so that it's not just a matter of perception or reality that's separate from yourself, but if you have power as a SANA field, you're changing reality.

[68:11]

Well, right. Each Bodhisattva practitioner is changing reality. By our work to help relieve suffering, by our work to help inspire everyone to practice awakening, to awaken to practice, to awaken to caring for all beings. So yeah, we make a difference, each one of us and all of us together. And we don't know the product of that difference. And there are Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and Buddha fields in the flower and the sutra the tip of every staff and the tip of every blade of grass, there are innumerable Buddhist and Buddhist subjects. The reality is made up of awakening beings everywhere. That's not something we ordinarily see.

[69:13]

And when we look at, appropriately look at the troubles of our lives in the world, it's hard to see them. That's reality. One more comment or question, somebody who hasn't spoken yet. I see Nathan, how are you doing? Any reflections? for us. Nathan was maintaining up the slides. Any last comments? Okay, Jan, go ahead. I personally don't believe in thoughts and prayers.

[70:17]

And I think that when people think they're changing reality with thoughts and prayers, I don't believe that. And I have problems. When I was in Israel, the people who were actively defending, it was a long, long time ago, and the people who were actively defending Israel had a lot of resentment against the section of Israeli society that would not participate except through prayer. So that's my first comment. But I wonder if... Can I respond to that and then you can do the second? Yeah, I'm sorry I speak so much. I just have one more comment. Okay. Okay, go ahead. No, no, finish yours and then I'll respond. Well, I wanted to respond to what Kathy said about layers because this is really, really personal.

[71:19]

You start out as a child. I went to school and found out, to my enormous surprise, that our bodies are made up of cells. And then, to my further surprise, every cell contains chromosomes with DNA, which are made up of molecules and atoms. And then I became interested in the structure of the atom and actually was teaching the the structure of matter as seen by human beings, there's the periodic table. But then you go beyond that to the periodic table of isotopes, and it gets more and more complicated. Then I realized that in the middle of a hydrogen bomb, you get a substance called plasma that has nothing to do Not nothing, but it's not atoms and it's not subatomic particles.

[72:25]

It is some kind of a mess that we don't understand. And then you learn that scientists say a huge percentage of the matter in the universe we can't see, but we know it's there because of its effect. And you go on beyond this and think, what in the hell is the middle of a black hole? And then people say, well, what's on the other side of the universe? And you're thinking, layers. You can't, I cannot conceive of what this is all about. Right. And so I'm going to try to respond briefly. So hopefully our world will not be visited by a hydrogen bomb, even though military powers in various countries are building bigger and better ones. But yeah, what you said about the structure of

[73:29]

This is very interesting. The structure of an atom. You see what nucleus and electrons and stuff, other things rolling around it. And you can erase them and carry out a table. Yeah, but also the structure of a solar system. There's a sun in the middle and then there's planets and asteroids and lots of stuff rolling around that. And then the structure of a galaxy, they say. There's a center and we're on one Small wing of all the things rolling around the center of the galaxy and when when Buddha talks about. And actually in science, they're not when they talk to many universes and I forget the term they're using, but there are many universes. So this structure of a century and things around it replicates itself. over minute dimensions, which is probably part of what this chapter is talking about. So that's just as partial response to your second thing.

[74:37]

I'm going to go back to thoughts and prayers. So actually it's been proven by, or it's been demonstrated through experimentation that we have a well-being list that we chant We try to enchant once a month. It's very long. But they've demonstrated that people who are being prayed for, it helps them. Even if they don't know that anyone's praying for them. This has been demonstrated in scientific experience. However, when... Politicians respond to mass shootings, like the mass shooting in Nashville and the killing of schoolchildren by saying, oh, I caused some pressure with them. In that sense, yeah, that's not helpful because there are obviously things that can be done, like banning assault rifles.

[75:41]

And anyway, yeah. that the gun violence in this country is just appalling. There are more guns than there are people. Also, they're already dead. Well, the people who are victims of mass shootings, they're not on our well-being list. No, but we do have a moral list. But the well-being list is for people threatened by all of this, too. Right. And we can pray for them, but we don't know... There are no studies that have demonstrated that prayers for people who have died benefit them. Right. Yes. Thank you. Yes. And that would be great if we did have a kind of experimental base so we could study that and how people who have died are benefited. At any rate, that's so that's part of.

[76:44]

Buddhist tradition, but. Yes, just to say, oh, well, we're not going to change the laws about having assault rifles available. And there are. I think it's Florida and Texas now where you can carry assault rifles, no matter permanent, openly. We know that's the direction they're going. And thoughts and prayers don't help when suddenly. uh, vicious weapons of war are available to teenagers. It's just, it's, uh, so yes, thoughts and prayers can help, but there, there's a limit to, you know, there's also actually helping. So in a physical sense, so I appreciate you putting the subject. So maybe it's time to stop for now. We're going to continue studying. Mark, if you suit up, Douglas will be here.

[77:48]

This isn't around with announcements, but tomorrow evening talking about sickness and how sick and the moment you have to use them almost as a teaching and next Sunday. Dale Wright is my scholar who's written a very good book about tomorrow. 50 central will be here. I'm talking about. The goddess, the goddess of freedom. the Kabbalah chapter. There's a lot to say about that. So let's close with the four books.

[78:27]

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