Good morning, everyone. Can you hear me? So it's good to be back at Ancient Dragon. Change is difficult. I've changed my living place in the last few weeks. It's a good change, but challenging too. I want to talk about something that happened, well, 77 years ago yesterday and is still happening. 77 years ago yesterday, August 6th, 1945, the United States dropped an atomic bomb on the city of Hiroshima in Japan. Three days later, August 9th, 1945, we dropped a bomb on Nagasaki. So I want to connect this up later to one of our paramitas or bodhisattva practices, but there's a lot to say about this and it actually has a lot to do with our practice, I think.

[01:06]

Within 10 days after the bombing of Hiroshima, there were 40,000 people dead in Hiroshima. There were 70,000 people dead in Nagasaki. And of course, during the many years after, many more people died from radiation and poisoning, and also many descendants of people who were present, those events were affected. The United States government claimed that they saved American soldiers' lives at the end of World War II through this nuclear bomb at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Historians now see that these bombs were unnecessary. The United States government Now we know, and this is verified by diaries of then Secretary of War Henry Simpson, that the United States government knew that Japan was preparing to surrender before they dropped the bomb in Hiroshima.

[02:17]

So the Hiroshima bomb was a warning to the Soviet Union. preliminary to the Cold War. And of course, the Nagasaki bomb three days later was unnecessary, even in those terms, because Hiroshima had already proved the power of our weapons and of the atomic bombs. The current United Nations Secretary General, Antonio Guterres, has warned this week that humanity is one miscalculation away from nuclear annihilation, unquote. He said, we have been extraordinarily lucky so far, but luck is not a strategy, nor is the shield from geopolitical tensions boiling over into nuclear conflict. Today, humanity is just one misunderstanding, one miscalculation away from nuclear annihilation. We need a treaty of non-proliferation of nuclear weapons as much as ever."

[03:27]

So now, this year, we are closer to nuclear annihilation than at any time since the Cold War. Schoolchildren nowadays have active shooter drills in their schools where they prepare for the possibility of an active shooter. This is necessary since our politicians insist on 18-year-olds having access to assault rifles. When I was in grade school during the Cold War in the 50s, we didn't have active shooter drills, we had atom bomb drills. I forget what they called them, but that's what they were. In some places, children were told to duck under their desks for protection from the nuclear bombs. In my school, instead, we went down to the basement and stood on the perimeter

[04:37]

of the basement facing the wall until there was an all clear signal. Many years later, I remembered this when I was practicing at San Francisco Zen Center, City Center, the Zenta was down in the basement and we sat around the perimeter facing the wall. And I recalled those atom bomb drills in my childhood. Maybe American Zen is our repentance for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We might see it that way. Of course, we could also see it as a gift the Japanese gave us in spite of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Today, I'm wearing my rokusu that I received in Japan, that I received as an authorized teacher in the Japanese Sotoshu school. instead of the Raksu, transmission Raksu, that actually Hogetsu kindly sewed for me for my authorization in our lineage, from Suzuki Roshi lineage.

[05:52]

So our connection to Japan, especially here, is very strong. And Hiroshima is a major fact in that. There's also a racist aspect to the nuclear weapons program of our country. Japanese Americans, of course, were kept in detention camps in the United States during World War II. Tests in the Pacific islands have been on indigenous lands. Most of the uranium mining is in the United States Southwest, devastating to Native Americans there, the Navajo or Diné people and Hopis. Nuclear power has been a companion, a close companion of nuclear weapons.

[06:59]

Both are about plutonium. Plutonium has a half-life of 24,000 years. So that's how long the waste from nuclear power plants and weapons manufacturings will remain a long-term threat to life on earth. Illinois has more nuclear plants than any other state in the United States. So this is about us. In the current Ukraine war, the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, Zaporozhye, I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that correctly. It's in Northern Ukraine and is currently controlled by Russian troops, using it as a weapon in the war. They put landmines around it and Ukrainian troops cannot attack the Russian troops there for fear of a nuclear explosion. Nuclear energy inspectors cannot access this power plant.

[08:03]

We don't know the status of that reactor. The International Atomic Energy Agency says that this reactor is, quote, completely out of control. An official there said every principle of nuclear safety has been violated at this plant. What is at stake is extremely serious and extremely grave and dangerous. Nuclear power plants, so we know nuclear power plants were never designed or intended or imagined to be present in the middle of a war zone. They serve as a target for war. Chernobyl, where the world's worst nuclear accident happened. the 80s, Prime Minister Gorbachev of the Soviet Union said that it was primarily Chernobyl that ended the Soviet Union, the effects of Chernobyl. So again, experts on nuclear arms say that we are closer to nuclear war than we've ever been, at least since the Cold War.

[09:12]

And we need to recognize this fact and be aware of it. There's a nuclear clock that has been in operation for a while. Midnight is when all of this might happen in this clock. And we're hundreds, according to, I think this is from the Union of Concerned Scientists. Anyway, we're now a hundred seconds away from midnight. So I'm not talking about all this to scare you. Although of course, you know, this is rather frightening, but as Buddhist practitioners, we need to realize that there are things we can do about all of this. First is just to recognize the reality, to be willing to speak about it, and be aware of these dangers to our world today.

[10:21]

And then we can lobby politicians to make changes. Currently, there's a house resolution in the Senate. House of Representatives, number 1185, quote, embracing the goals and provisions of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. This resolution in the House calls on the American people to lead a global effort to prevent nuclear war. And it highlights five particular issues. One is renouncing the option of using nuclear weapons first. So I don't think most American citizens realize that ever since Hiroshima, the United States government policy has included the possibility of launching first strikes of nuclear weapons.

[11:22]

And if we renounce that first strike use, that would help with the other nuclear powers in the world. Of course we have many, many, many more nuclear weapons than any other country or all the other countries put together. The second thing is ending the president's sole authority to launch a nuclear attack. One person, the president of the United States, has the power to launch a first strike, no matter how unhinged that president might become. So, We have current reminders of that. Third issue is taking nuclear weapons, United States nuclear weapons off hair trigger alert. In an accident or a misunderstanding of what's happening, nuclear weapons might now be launched within minutes or even seconds.

[12:33]

because they're on hair trigger alert. So we can remove that hair trigger alert status to our nuclear weapons. The fourth aspect of this resolution is to cancel the plans to replace the nuclear arsenal of the United States with quote modernized or enhanced weapons. The United States government now has plans for a $1.7 trillion upgrade to our current nuclear arsenal. Think of what all that money could do otherwise. The government now claims it's too expensive to have reasonable healthcare or education or housing or infrastructure repair. $1.7 trillion instead is going to enhance and modernize weapons that can't be used except with likely catastrophic danger to all human life.

[13:46]

This is maybe the definition of insanity anyway. That's the fourth aspect of this house resolution. The fifth is actively pursuing a verifiable agreement among nuclear armed states to mutually eliminate their nuclear arsenals. There's a treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons that has been signed by most countries of the world, but not by those who now have nuclear weapons capability, especially blocked by the United States, Russia, and China. But this treaty could make such a difference. So this is a reality that we now face and that We were reminded of Hiroshima Day, the anniversary of that yesterday, and the bombing of Nagasaki, the anniversary two days from now.

[14:49]

Nuclear weapons and nuclear power all depend on nuclear reactions and nuclear energy. Well, first, I think there's a lot more to say about Hiroshima and how all of our nuclear arsenal impacts our world today and dangers our world today. So I look forward to your comments and responses in the discussion. But as Zen practitioners, I think all of this correlates to using sustainable energy. Of course, sustainable energy is also what we need to face another big danger climate chaos and breakdown, which we're seeing all around the world from heat waves in Europe and moderate heat waves, although they don't feel so moderate here in Illinois, and flooding in South Asia and massive forest fires in the West Coast and the Southwest and so forth.

[16:12]

We all know that it's not theoretical. So we need to change the world. Humanity needs to change from fossil fuel energy to sustainable energy. And we have actually the technology to do that. Of course, the transition will be challenging. and maybe threatening to people who have worked in fossil fuel, but it's urgent, just as urgent as the nuclear weapons issue is. I would say the sustainable energy is a personal as well as a societal issue.

[17:17]

Many of you know about the six paramitas in Buddhism, and there's 10 paramitas also, but just to name the six, these are transcendent practices or bodhisattva practices. that are reflections or expressions of the awareness we gain during sasana. So they are generosity or dana, ethical conduct or shila, kshanti or patience, very important. But I wanna talk today about the fourth, virya paramita. Then there's Samadhi or Jhana Paramita, the fifth and Prajnaparamita, which you've probably heard of, which is the insider wisdom. Those are the six transcendent practices in our Bodhisattva tradition. But the fourth, Virya, is related etymologically to vitality.

[18:23]

It's often translated as the perfection of energy or effort. but it's also the practice of enthusiasm. Next Sunday, I want to talk about Virya Paramita more, especially as it relates to meditation. And how do we sustain our personal energy and vitality in our practice? Again, How do we sustain enthusiasm and energy to support our practice and support our ability to respond to the situations of our troubled world? How do we find our practice of energy and enthusiasm? Usually we talk about this in terms of effort as a compliment to patience, but

[19:29]

Nirya Paramita is how do we find enthusiasm? How do we encourage our own enthusiasm? So I want to encourage everyone to support all of your various enthusiasms. Each of us has various enthusiasms, things that we enjoy, that are energizing. Along with, aside from, Zazen. Zazen is also about this. How do we find our vitality? How do we find our energy? How do we find the enthusiasm to continue in this difficult world and in our own difficult lives? So some of you are enthusiastic about gardening.

[20:42]

or the environment. Some of you are enthusiastic about reading or philosophy. Some of you are enthusiastic about all kinds of things. I think part of our practice of responding to all these difficulties, including the threat of nuclear weapons, is to, uh, acknowledge to ourselves, if not others, our enthusiasms, whatever, um, whatever supports you to, um, vitality, to interest, to energizing your situation in your life. So, um, I want to, again, I want to talk about this more next Sunday in direct relationship to meditation and how we can use and support our energy in Zazen, how we can use that to support our enthusiasms.

[21:58]

So I ended up writing down a lot of the things I wanted to say about Hiroshima and I thought it would take longer, but I think I've said what I want to say. Um, how do we find our own energy and vitality? And then how do we use that to respond to these challenges, these just, um, existential, uh, major challenges to our whole world, including all of us. So, um, I know Hogetsu wrote in the chat that she had to leave early, but I know you've also campaigned for peace, including walking through Russia at one time. I don't know. So I'll invite all of you to respond and share perspectives. But Hogetsu, did you want to say anything before you depart?

[23:01]

No, thank you. So anybody else responses to the reality of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in our relationship and how that relates to our relationship to Japan? And how do we use energy in a constructive way? So for the people at Ebenezer, for the people on Zoom, please, comments, questions, responses. This is difficult to talk about. And partly since the Cold War, this was on everybody's mind during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the potential of nuclear weapons. And before that, in the Cold War, we've been really lucky that there haven't been

[24:07]

nuclear, more nuclear accidents or nuclear conflict. It's just, it's just been lucky there've been accidents that were where we came very, very close. But here we are in 2022 with growing tensions between the United States and Russia, United States and China, this difficult, horrible Ukraine war. complicated causes, and of course, horrible Russian invasion. So comments, responses, questions. So I think Dylan is the host in Ebenezer, if there's anybody there who has comments, or if anyone has comments here on Zoom, please feel free. Oketsu. Actually, I do have a comment.

[25:11]

So you can see this scroll in the background of my sitting cushion. And that is a replication of a destroyed wall fresco from Nara, Japan, and 600 or so it was made. And that's Mahastamprapta, which is the Bodhisattva of the arrival of great energy. So I found during the pandemic, that it's been a little bit like, you know, those dementors and Harry Potter, that sucked the energy out of people. And my response to that has been to venerate this great bodhisattva, but also to really study the emptiness teachings. and find the energy that comes from the boundlessness of Sun Yat Ta. So whether that applies to how I relate to my physical space or my sitting space or the difficulties in the world that

[26:23]

I feel like we can always dip in, in our zazen, in our practice, into that well of a soft energy that moves us to respond in whatever way. So I don't know what that has to do with Hiroshima, but that's sort of what I've been doing with this great practice of virya paramita. So thank you. Thank you so much, Hogetsu. Actually, I had seen that scroll behind you and I had somehow assumed it was Kanon Bodhisattva, the Bodhisattva of Compassion, who you speak about eloquently at times. But Mahastamprapta Bodhisattva, Seishi Bosatsu in Japanese, is a companion to Kanon, is a companion to the Bodhisattva of Compassion. Often they're depicted on either side of the Buddha. So the one side is compassion and kindness. The other side is strength, power.

[27:25]

And yes, I think you're right. I, uh, appreciate your mentioning the pandemic we've all been through. I think that has affected our energy. I think, um, It's been difficult, and each of us has had different responses, and as the pandemic has seemingly lifted some, although I know numbers of people who have recently gotten COVID, myself included, actually. But yeah, this pandemic, and quarantining, everything that's happened. And of course, losing our wonderful Zendo at Irving Park was part of that. I think it has zapped our energy in some ways. So I think we have to acknowledge that, or for some of us anyway. So how do we renew renewable energy.

[28:28]

How do we renew our energy, our enthusiasms, our efforts, just to support our practice, our everyday practice for the people in our lives, as well as the practice of responding to the troubles of the world. They're not separate. So thank you for bringing us the Bodhisattva of strength and energy and enthusiasm. Sometimes he's, he's described as the Bodhisattva of power. And I think we've, we've, we've, many of us lost our power through the pandemic. And of course, the pandemic is related to climate and, you know, all the things happening in the world. So all of this is related. So thank you very much, Hoketsu. Other comments, reflections, responses to anything about this? Eve has a question. Eve, do you want to come up here to the mic?

[29:29]

Yeah, you can be on camera here. So I wanted to know more about the bill that you were talking about and who wrote it, because it did seem to be encouraging. that some people wrote the bill. Yes, thank you very much, Eve. Good to see you. Yeah, this House Resolution 1185, I sent out something about it a while ago. I can send the text and some more about it to anyone who is interested. But yes, this resolution, This is something that we can all do. We can contact Congress people and senators and say, please sign on to this really important house resolution, which would do, it's,

[30:31]

It's about embracing the goals and provisions of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons, which is a treaty that's active in the world now. The United States hasn't signed it, and neither has Russia or China, but most countries of the world have. I don't know the number exactly. So one of the things that all of us can do, I've already contacted my a congressperson about this, but to sign on to House Resolution 1185 is the number. So maybe I'll just repeat these five, these five main points that it calls on not just the leaders, but the people around the world to, to support these issues and contact political leaders. So first, again, is to renounce the option of using first strike of nuclear weapons.

[31:37]

And I think most Americans don't realize that that is our policy about nuclear weapons. It has been since Hiroshima through every president, Republican or Democrat, that we will use first strike when we feel like it or when we think it's appropriate or whatever. And the first strike of nuclear weapons is bound to have responses from other nuclear powers and the whole world is in danger. So again, I wanna repeat these five. The second one is ending the current situation of the US president having the sole authority to launch a nuclear attack or to launch our nuclear weapons. So it should not be just up to one person. to take the United States nuclear weapons off hair trigger alert. So with any sign of something happening from another country, and there've been movies like Dr. Strangelove and others way back during the Cold War that showed the easy possibility for misinterpretation

[32:54]

and accidents and misunderstandings. So hair trigger alert is the third thing. The fourth is this horrible plan now, which we can call on our representatives to cancel, to rebuild and enhance the United States nuclear weapon arsenal with $1.7 trillion I don't know what that number is, but I know that things like action for climate safety, actions for renewable power, actions for real health care, actions for education, and so forth are considered, you know, are spoken of as too expensive by some of our politicians. And yet here's this $1.7 trillion.

[33:56]

And then the fifth part of this resolution is actively pursuing a verifiable agreement. There are protocols for verifying the status of nuclear weapons. But this is for all nuclear armed states to mutually eliminate nuclear arsenals. There was the treaty that was signed with Iran to decrease nuclear weapons, and that was canceled by our last president. anyway, but beyond just non-proliferation to eliminate nuclear weapons. This is this House Resolution 1185. Thank you for the question, Eve. Yeah, but I mean, I agree with all that and it makes sense. But my question was about, like, I'm not used to politicians making sense at this point.

[34:58]

So I was wondering, you know, who sponsored it? And does it have any bipartisan support? And, you know, not only can we do something to encourage the bill, but can we do something to encourage the kind of thinking that produced this bill or Yeah, so contact your representatives about this. I can look it up. I don't know offhand who initiated this bill, but it's there in front of the House of Representatives. I'll try and research it and get back to you, Eve. Other comments or responses or questions about any of this situation we're in and how to support our energy, wholesome energy in our country and world and in our practice? Dylan?

[36:03]

Yeah, Jen's got a comment. Do you want to come over here, Jen, so folks can see you? So Jan and I and Alex and some other people from Buddhist Peace Fellowship were at a vigil yesterday up in Evanston about Hiroshima Day. So Jan, please share what you would like. I'm interested in the idea that everything ends. There is a person, Guy McPherson, who really believes that we are coming to the end. And he says, what do we do now? And the same question came up yesterday, where David Kraft talked about, what if you saw a tremendous emergency happening immediately?

[37:18]

and he created a theoretical situation. Would you try to pass a bill? Would you, you know, he gave all kinds of solutions that take time. And in the movie, Don't Look Up, there was no time. And the people got together to face the end with a nice dinner and some loving talk. And that's what Di McPherson recommends, that we now come together and support one another as best we can. I don't know the solution to this, of course, but I do know that we dropped the bomb on Nagasaki to see whether our plutonium bomb was going to work.

[38:21]

And after that, breeder reactors were established all over the place to breed uranium fuel for plutonium. And this became an important function of reactors around the world. The United States gave up breeder reactors because they're so filthy. And there were too many failures of breeder reactors in our country and in Japan. But breeder reactors are all over the world now, and they keep breeding plutonium. And there has become a tremendous storage of plutonium. And the breeder reactors are making it as we speak. So this is just one problem. And then in the southern United States, we have reactors that are created to produce tritium.

[39:29]

And tritium is another type, is another material that is absolutely needed for this $1.7 trillion project. of maintaining and improving our nuclear arsenal. So, reactors that produce plutonium are called breeder reactors. Reactors that produce tritium are down at Watts Bar in Tennessee. And, well, I really When the genie got out of the bottle on December the 2nd of 19, I think, 42 in Chicago, my whole project now is to get that genie back in the bottle.

[40:35]

You know, it's like saying delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. You know, the genie is out of the bottle. And I vowed to put that genie back in the bottle. It's just... It's one of those vows. Because we need to end the project of fission, period. And stop trying to move on to fusion. We need to put that genie back in the bottle. That's my comment. Thank you, Jen. Thank you for your vow. A couple of comments on all that you said. Yeah, the example David Kraft gave, as I recall, was if you saw a group of children

[41:44]

schoolchildren crossing the street and there was a group of people yelling at them with swords and weapons and getting ready to attack them. What would you do? You wouldn't lobby Congress. You would try and do something to respond. he was talking about the urgency of our situation and how do we respond right now? And it's, um, it's not easy. The other thing you said that I wanted to say, uh, respond to is, uh, there are people who are talking about, um, uh, climate trauma and, and just, um, that, you know, we cannot do anything about, about all these things and we should just get ready to, you know, calmly and lovingly be together as we meet the end of the world. I think this is a really dangerous approach and tendency.

[42:48]

Our practice is about, yes, we can respond to the situations of the world and it is urgent. And it's not clear always what to do, but just saying, well, you know, there's nothing we can do and it's, and we're doomed. And that's, it's, it's not helpful. And I don't think it's realistic either. We don't know how things change societally and even in our own bodies and minds. You know, we can track some of the causes and conditions of change, but so many just in, you know, the lifetimes of many of us, so many things have changed. Gay marriage was legalized by the former Supreme Court before it became illegitimate. And the Berlin Wall came down, apartheid ended.

[43:51]

Many positive changes happened. A little more than a hundred years ago, women weren't allowed to vote. that was seen as just, you know, ridiculous for women to vote. And now of course we take it for granted, but that was as a result of the work of suffragettes and many, many people lobbying for the women's rights. And of course the abolition of slavery as well. So we face many challenges now, but just to give up and say, well, we're doomed. It's not realistic. You know, the pendulum swings, we have great difficulties and then, um, To give one example, the vote in Kansas this week, by a landslide, people in Kansas, considered a conservative state, voted for pro-choice instead of anti-choice. So for women who are being really persecuted now by some of our politicians.

[44:56]

Anyway, there's all these dangers. But, change happens. Yes. As Jan was saying, the world will end eventually. You know, astronomers can talk about how long before the sun explodes, but that's beyond the context of our lives here. And this is the 21st century anyway. So just giving up communally or personally, you know, we have challenges. We have the challenge of COVID and we have the challenge of how do we support our sangha now and so forth. Well, there's so many different levels of challenges, but hopelessness is not realistic.

[45:58]

Anyway, thank you, Jan, for all your comments. Anybody else, comments, perspectives, responses? Really welcome any. Kathy has any comments. Good morning. Hi, Kathy. Yeah, Thaygen, as you were talking and as I've listened to this discussion I've been thinking about, what do we have control over? What can we do? I'm reading a book right now called, Lost Connections, which is about mental health, but it is also, the premise is that in our society, in the world, we've lost a sense of community, a sense of connection. that we now are on our phones a good deal of the time. With COVID, we became more isolated. In the United States, we make decisions based more on will it be profitable financially.

[47:01]

than we do on other things. And I think sometimes what is the antidote? I think all of these things are related to decisions being made that are not maybe the ones that individuals want. And the divisiveness in our country, I think, contributes to the lack of ability to control the direction that we want things to take as well. And I personally think getting back to building community wherever we can. We live in a very multicultural city. You know, we live in a very diverse city in terms of a lot of things. And I think when you get to know people around you, or when you build community in some way, and you're connecting with people that are not just like you, that barriers begin to drop and there's more opportunity to influence each other you know to learn that somebody else conserves water by using a rain barrel or somebody else uses it by putting panels on the roof or

[48:15]

political issues too that sometimes are close to home and discussion around what would be a solution to that at the city or state level and sometimes further. But I feel like we're getting more isolated. And anyway, I just wanted to throw that out as something to think about in terms of how do we impact this. Thank you, Kathy. Yes, community, sangha, is very important. And how do we share community or sangha? This is a big question. And there are lots of ways of thinking about it and lots of approaches. And we don't always know what's best. My friend Joanna Macy has talked about islands of sanity.

[49:22]

And in terms of any of these issues, personal or societal, I think just to have discussions like this, just to bring awareness, to keep awareness of the dangers in the world around us, the dangers of war and nuclear weapons, the dangers of climate, the dangers of fascism and loss of democracy, the dangers of further pandemics, all of that to pretend to run away from it and think, oh, well, the end of the world is here. That's not our practice. Our practice is, okay, how do we have the strength from Zazen to be willing to sit upright in the middle of it, to be willing to face the wall of all of these difficulties in our own lives, as well as in the world. And then how do we respond?

[50:24]

And, you know, there are many opinions about that. And I don't, you know, I don't have any answers. I just know that if we talk about it together and bring awareness to it all that possible helpful responses may emerge. So, um, so our Sangha, I hope can be an island of sanity relatively. And then how do we share and spread that, that, uh, awareness that, that kindness and clarity and strength of purpose from our Bodhisattva vow. So thank you, Kathy. So if anybody has any comments or reflections about related to this in any way, I'm really interested to hear whatever anybody has to say.

[51:32]

He's got a follow-up. Good. I mean, so I get a little insulted when we say we don't know anything about how change happens. Because that's why I went into social science. And I think we do know some things. I mean, we know that what my undergrad advisor called cultural premises are important. The ideas that we hold that go without saying. And that it does, it seems to be perhaps not sufficient, but important sometimes to articulate what goes without saying. And I think Zen practice does help with that. I mean, one of the things that's embedded in what one could call Western culture is the idea that we're separate from our environment and from each other.

[53:11]

And the wisdom that's embedded in Zen and many other traditions is a counter to that. And I think that that can make a difference. And the other thing I think, you know, is that it's not just, you know, ideology, but practice. And again, that's a wisdom that I see reflected in Zen as well. And, you know, what people have talked about, about creating community, you know, not just by talking about it, by enacting it, that is important, and it does make a difference. And when Joanna Mesa talks about islands of sanity again, the point about those kinds of islands is that they can spread. And that when Margaret Mead said, you know, never think that a small group of committed citizens can't make a difference, that in fact, it's the only thing that ever does.

[54:19]

There was a lot of systemic wisdom embodied in that statement. That, you know, individuals alone It's not like the champion or the savior is the linchpin for change, but there have to be people who listen and respond. And that does happen, it seems, in groups where, like you said, these kinds of discussions aren't important. So that's one thing I've taken away from the years that I've spent trying to study these things. Thank you, Eve. Thank you. I sit corrected. Yeah. I mean, people like your work and many people are studying how change happens is important. I guess what I was trying to say is that, and not didn't say it very well, is that sometimes change happens and

[55:22]

And it seems unexpected to most people. Of course, all the changes that happen are a product of many people. But that's the nature of complex systems. Yes. The particular context I had heard about this is the Berlin Wall falling and that apparently experts on the politics of Germany and the Cold War at the time, you know, a few weeks or a month ahead of it, what couldn't have expected it or didn't expect it. But yeah, I think what you're doing in terms of trying to study how we create change collectively and, you know, I have, I understand that change doesn't have to happen through a whole population calling for it, but that if there's a critical mass of committed people, 5% of the population I've heard can actually lead to significant changes.

[56:39]

So thank you for studying this and how we make change. And we need to think about that. One of the things I sometimes say is that we can't control everything. but we can make a difference. And so anyway, thank you very much. Yes, we need to work for change. And as Kathy was alluding to, reaching out to people we might disagree with about whatever and finding areas of agreement and just listening and speaking respectfully, you know, that's one of the things that we can do to spread Iowans of sanity as it were. So thank you for that. Other comments or perspectives on any of this?

[57:42]

We've got a follow-up from Kathy. If I can just add, I'll wait for this, sorry. add to Eve's statement that I think, you know, when you think about systems theory, which I studied some too, it's a process of change. It doesn't happen overnight. It's not a matter of just walking around and getting names on a petition to get this bill passed. It's a gradual process of people connecting and feeling a sense of community, meaning responsibility to each other, gradually being influenced by each other. Hearing about the need for this and sorting through their own feelings about it, maybe researching it more, may take a lot of time. It's a

[58:43]

it's a gradual process of influencing each other and it's not just on one issue, you know, and that's why that sense of community or a sense of being part of something bigger than yourself is so important. Thank you, yes, yes. So again, anyone who has comments, perspectives to share, please feel free. If there are no further comments, we can proceed to announcements and to our closing service.

[59:47]

message from Anastasia on the chat. Yeah, the message just said thanks to everyone. I echo that. Thank you all for just listening and for for your awareness, you know. Zen Buddhism is about awakening fundamentally. And that has to do with awareness and allowing awareness to arise and sharing awareness. So that's the work we have to do.

[60:44]

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