with us. Thank you. How long can I wait to speak without taxing the circumstance? What's your usual? Maybe 40 minutes. Okay. And then do we have a little time for some questions in that area of time? I have to. Okay.

[01:11]

I've been hanging out with the Tibetans too much. And in that tradition, one can sit for days for teachings and discussion about the Dharma matters. As we chanted the Heart Sutra together, I was struck partially because of some things I've been studying recently with the word parameetha, perfection. I have a great gratitude to the teachings on the six perfections. The sixth one being wisdom, what we all hope to cultivate within ourselves. But I'm particularly grateful for the first perfection, which is described as the ground from which

[02:12]

everything else may arise. And that is the perfection of generosity. I'm struck by how insightful and right it is that this is the ground we want to cultivate first that makes everything else possible. And I hope that you will understand what I'm suggesting as I proceed with what I would like to talk about this evening. Before I begin, however, I want to express my gratitude to Les Kay and to all of you for inviting me to come and be with you this evening. I think that we are very lucky to be able to practice together, to have a good place to do the practices and to have spiritual friends to practice with.

[03:19]

And I'm feeling gratitude for the circumstance of your practice here together and being invited to join you. Who would know as they whiz by on the nearby freeways, that lurking here in the midst of Mountain View is a cluster of people following the Buddha way quietly. Quite wonderful. A group of us who practice together at my house have been, I've begun studying some of the early sutras And we've started with the first sutra in the collection called The Long Discourses. Some of you may know the collection in a new translation from Wisdom Press called Thus Have I Heard, translated by Norris Walsh.

[04:26]

A translation which is fresh and I think quite accessible for us. Most of the translations of these sutras are 80 or 90 years old and have a kind of dustiness about them that makes them sometimes a little difficult to stay with. And Maurice Walsh's translation is very much of this time that we live in. In studying this first sutra, there is a verse very early on in the sutra where the Buddha talks about two of the eight worldly concerns. He talks about the concern with praise and the concern with censure. And I'd like to begin by reading that short verse, which I've been spending some time meditating on and hanging out with.

[05:36]

The sutra begins with the Buddha and the monks who are practicing with him having some gathering and as they go from one place to another there are three monks kind of lagging at the very end and right after them are two doubters following along. talking about what the Buddha is and isn't saying, and is it true or isn't it. And the monks who overhear this doubting conversation are a little concerned. And the Buddha, because he can hear and see everything accurately, knows what's going on. So the monks begin talking about these doubters who are sort of tagging along at the end of the line. And the Buddha goes and sits down kind of chatting about, you know, what's up, folks.

[07:00]

He says, monks, what was the subject of your conversation just now? What talk have I interrupted? So they told him a little bit about what was going on and what they were disturbed about. And his response to them was as follows. Monks, if anyone should speak in disparagement of me, of the Dharma, or of the Sangha, you should not be angry, resentful, or upset on that account. If you were to be angry or displeased at such disparagement, that would only be a hindrance to you. For if others disparage me, the Dharma, or the Sangha, and you are angry or displeased, can you recognize whether what they say is right or not? No, Lord. If others disparage me, the Dharma or the Sangha, then you must explain what is incorrect as being incorrect, saying that is incorrect, that is false, that is not our way, that is not found among us.

[08:14]

But monks, if others should speak in praise of me, of the Dharma or of the Sangha, You should not on that account be pleased, happy, or elated. If you were to be pleased, happy, or elated at such praise, that would only be a hindrance to you. If others praise me, the Dharma, or the Sangha, you should acknowledge the truth of what is true, saying, that is correct, that is right, that is our way, that is found in us. So, the eight worldly concerns are the wish for fame and the displeasure or fear about obscurity, the wish for gain and the fear about loss, the wish for pleasure and the fear of pain,

[09:26]

the wish for praise and the fear about censure. So in many of these sutras, including this first one, there is a lot of talk about worldly concerns and a kind of disparagement about those who are involved in worldly concerns. And it's sometimes very easy to read these texts and think that it's kind of the monks putting down lay people or householders. But in fact, what is being pointed to is these eight worldly concerns, which are the sticky briar patch that we get so caught in. So I have for some while been paying particular attention to which of these eight worldly concerns have the Velcro with my name on it. Where might I attend and pay attention to the places where I may be caught among this enumeration of worldly concerns?

[10:41]

In thinking about where on the list to place my attention and spend some time paying attention to what describes my mind, I've been asking myself, well, what seems to be an obstacle to clear seeing, seeing things as they are? Now there's another practice that I've been doing at the same time that I've been repeating this particular verse on praise and censure and going over the list of the Eight Worldly Concerns over the last few weeks. And that has been focusing on a practice that has to do with calling Avalokiteshvara's name. Those of you here might do the practice by calling Karmila's name. That is the Bodhisattva of Compassion who is often described as the hearer or regarder of the crowds of the world.

[11:51]

And who is associated with that capacity for deep listening without judgment or reaction, really listening. So a group of us have been taking that on as a very focused point of practice. So it is in the context of that listening, paying attention, especially to my own inner life, to see in particular what are the worldly concerns that are what I should be looking at. And my reference at the beginning to keeping in mind that the ground we do this kind of practicing from is the ground of generosity, is because if I am going to be able to notice, for example, my wanting

[12:54]

or enjoying praise or my fearing censure, I'm going to be able to stay present with what is actually so for me more effectively if I do it kindly, if I do my noticing of generosity. If I do it with a big stick or a big pointing finger, there's a way in which the very territory of the mind that I want to attend to kind of scuttles away like a crab tide pool once recovered. My husband, whom some of you know because he's come and done some talks here with you, has been reading a text by a very famous teacher who in the early 1920s gave a 24-day teaching. There were many hundreds of monks and nuns and lay people who attended this particular teaching.

[13:57]

And it's one of those teachings which even today you still hear about. It was a great gathering together of many great teachings and commentaries from over a very long time, many centuries. He was a particularly brilliant teacher. One of the things that Bill was telling me the other day that this teacher commented on was that even for a monk or a nun who has been greatly accomplished in renunciation and has stripped their lives down to the barest of essentials, the worldly concern that seems to be the most claimed is that involvement that we get into. I thought, hmm, maybe that bears paying attention to. If even great practitioners who are able to simplify their lives get caught by fame, what makes me think I'm not going to be caught by it also?

[15:07]

The verse that has to do with praise and censure is the one that caught me. But I think actually what caught me is fame and censure, even though that's not the pairing in the traditional association. So in my inquiry and sitting with this list of eight worldly concerns, what I'm really looking at are the concern with fame, the concern with praise, and the concern with censure. So I'd like to tell you a couple of stories to illustrate the ideal, if you will. One is a story that I heard from a woman who interviewed His Holiness the Dalai Lama after he had received the Nobel Peace Prize. And she had a tape of the interview which she lent to me. In the interview, she says,

[16:13]

to His Holiness, now, what was your response when you first heard that you had been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize? You said, oh, well, at first a little bit, you know, with a high voice, at first a little bit excited. A little bit excited. Because I guess in the afternoon someone had gone to his cottage said, oh, we just heard this news that you have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. A little bit excited, so I listened that night to the BBC news. But there was no mention. So I thought, oh, maybe a mistake. Maybe a mistake. Maybe a little bit caught by the possibility of receiving the Nobel Peace Prize. So he went to sleep and the next morning he got up and he did his practices.

[17:17]

And it wasn't until quite a bit later in the morning that some official announcement reached him that he had indeed received the Nobel Peace Prize. But he said by then he'd forgotten about it. And it was sort of, you know, oh, and I thought, hmm. Now what would it be like if someone told me that I had received a Nobel Peace Prize, because immediately I would think, well, for what? Anyway, I think it's a lovely story about this wonderful practitioner's acknowledgment of a little stickiness there. And I appreciate very much and am encouraged by his honesty in sharing that. I got a little bit excited.

[18:20]

The other story, which is an old teaching story, but is one of my favorites, is about a priest, a Buddhist priest in a small village, who one day, there's a great pounding at the temple door, and he goes to answer the door. And when he opens the door, standing there is the rice farmer from near the temple, and his wife, and this squalling baby. And the man and woman begin yelling at him about what a terrible priest he is, and how he's broken the precepts, and how could he, and they kind of shove this baby in his arms and say, She's your responsibility. It's because of your bad deeds with our daughter, this is what we have here. Take her." And he said, oh, that's all. And he accepted the baby. Took the baby into his temple and took care of her and raised her.

[19:29]

A couple of years later, the same couple came back banging. Such a good priest. Such a fine priest. We are so sorry we made a terrible mistake. We have recently discovered that the fisherman's son has been much in love with our daughter, and he is the father of this child, and we falsely accused you, and you were so kind-hearted and have taken such good care of this baby, raised her so beautifully, and have been so kindly and forgiving to us for speaking so inappropriately to you. They just heaped their praise and asking for forgiveness. And his response was, oh, oh. I don't know about any of you, but

[20:33]

my experience so far is that when I'm falsely accused of something, I almost never say, oh! There was a quite famous Tibetan teacher, actually Mongolian teacher, named Geshe Wangyal, who was a contemporary of Suzuki Roshi. And we had a center in New Jersey. And I can remember in the early days of Zen Center, when Suzuki Roshi was still alive, having people say, well, Suzuki Roshi and Geshe Wangyal were exemplars as teachers coming to the West, because they didn't travel around and try to be famous. They just stayed in one place. And then slowly students would gather around them. Well, one of the things that Geshe Wangyal did with his students, especially his more senior and serious students, was to accuse them of things he knew they couldn't possibly have done, as a way of helping them see whatever shreds of self-clinging they still were enjoying.

[21:53]

So it's that particular form of censure that I've been thinking about. paying attention to. Not only in myself, but also in noticing what people that I practice with and people that I know, where other people seem to get stuck as well. Right now I'm in the midst of a kind of ongoing conversation with a young man who's an ordained priest at Zen Center. who is having a very hard time hearing some things that a number of people are saying to him that are not actually either praise or censure, but he hears them mostly as censure. And so he has the reaction to censure because that's of course what he thinks is happening, that's what people are expressing.

[22:56]

And his response is to come up with Statistics that prove that what we are saying about the patterns in his life are not so. He has grand descriptions of what other people have done that are kind of distraction. He has many arguments about how whatever is being said couldn't possibly apply to him. And he may be right that what various of us are saying to him that is a concern to us about what we see happening in his life and his behavior, we may be wrong. And he may be right. But how often, when someone is trying to suggest to me that there's something I might want to look at, which I hear as a kind of criticism or censure,

[24:01]

Do I block and say, oh, no, no, that can't be so, you're wrong? And miss the opportunity of considering, hmm, I wonder. How often do I get very excited about praise and very depressed because someone has said something that is a criticism or, no, that's wrong. And isn't it interesting to see, to spend a little moment thinking about how praise and censure are related to each other. They're on a kind of continuum. And so there is the same quality of concern for myself as the center of the universe in both cases. The one is apparently more enjoyable than the other.

[25:04]

But what I'm noticing is that I get into at least as much trouble with praise as I do with censure. I have a friend who hears whatever anything anybody says to her almost always as a criticism because mostly her own voice towards herself is criticism. And it was a great surprise to her one day when she realized that thinking of herself as the biggest piece of shit in the world around which the world revolved was as much a form of self-clinging as thinking she was some big deal, great and famous and important person. How could they possibly not have invited me to their birthday party? She said, oh, I just never thought of it that way, that they're basically the same caught place in a certain way.

[26:17]

It seems to me that Zen practice is a very radical commitment to sitting down and settling, letting particularly the mind settle enough to be able to begin to pay attention to the detail of the mind stream in the ways I'm suggesting with respect, for example, to praise or censure or fame. Or any of the other possibilities on this list of worldly concerns. And that what's radical about our practice is our commitment to see what is so, no matter what it is. And I think that to do that, to really do that, in one moment after another, takes a kind of courage. Because, of course, sometimes what we get to see, especially as we get to know ourselves more accurately, doesn't always thrill us.

[27:32]

Oh, how embarrassing. That couldn't be me having that kind of thought or desire. If I do some good deed, how much of my motivation depends upon my wanting to be seen and appreciated So I think one of the ways of looking at this list of eight worldly concerns and what I've been doing in thinking about praise and censure is to think about this list as a list of possible motivations. Is what is motivating me a desire for praise? Or am I being motivated in a given situation by my desire to avoid censure. That kind of inquiry into what is my motivation in a given situation can be very revealing.

[28:44]

So I'd like to invite you to consider the list and see if there's a pair, either of fame, having to do with fame and obscurity, gain and loss, pleasure and pain, or praise and central. And to carry the pair of your choice around with you for a few days and see what you notice about your own motivation. See if you begin to see a particular moment when you say something or do something and you can see how the desire for praise and the desire to avoid censure has motivated you to act in a particular way.

[29:59]

But please do the noticing with great kindness. Please do the noticing in a way that it's just notice what you notice and come back to the physical body in the world. Don't start wagging your finger at yourself. Because you will find it almost impossible to stay with yourself if you move. My own experience with studying my own mind stream in this way is that it really is the path to liberation. In the sense that I can in fact cultivate a willingness to pay attention to what arises no matter how embarrassing it may be. Because my willingness to allow what is so to become visible

[31:05]

is exactly what then allows the possibility for transformation, to not be caught by these worldly concerns, and the kind of prison that they bring. brings about the possibility, the emerging of that allowing, that includes the possibility for change and for transformation. So you see, this is the kind of trouble you get into when you start reading the long discourses of the Buddha.

[32:08]

He has some very interesting things to say. In his first sutra, he has quite a list of basically precepts about light speech. And a friend of mine went through this list of all the different ways of speaking that that ascetic Gautama doesn't do. And she said, after she looked at the list, gosh, what's left? There's nothing left to talk about. I wonder, is that really true? If we're not going to talk about, if we're not going to speak in ways that are idle or harsh or harming, slandering. If we're not going to trade in third-party information, what is that? It's actually quite a bit. If I go through this list of the eight worldly attitudes, are there any other attitudes that are left that I might enjoy?

[33:22]

with respect to the cultivation of, the possibility of the cultivation of a wholesome mind. I think so. This is a very helpful list, I think, of what we end up sometimes spending enormous amounts of our lives being caught by, being distracted by. This afternoon, when Wes and I were visiting, we were talking a little bit about the view that the Buddha puts forth about our central nature, and how so much of what we seek to come to in our practice is really what is natural, what makes a kind of sense, what has about it a quality of ease. The Buddha says that the essential nature of everything is virtuous and pure.

[34:29]

So it may be that what we really have over this essential nature, what we sometimes call Buddha nature, what I think of as layerings of like barnacle encrustations that we have to peel away until we get to that connection with our capacity for being virtuous and pure, which is allowing and easing, and not caught by these passing distractions of the eight worlds and so on. So that then somebody praises me and I can say, with some authenticity, where someone tells me what a terrible person I am and what awful things have happened to them as a result of their knowing me, and I can say, oh my God, and actually have some interest in, is there something here I need to look at?

[35:43]

Might this be so? Certainly this person is telling me about what causes that suffering, but is there something here I might consider and look at? Very different from, what do you mean? Those are my, the current focus for from my practice right now in which I hope maybe there's some interest within it. I wonder if you have some things you want to talk about, related or unrelated. Do we change on any of the questions? That's a good question. Thank you.

[36:46]

I want to ask you about essential nature. about being virtuous and pure. It strikes me that it's not so much a business of pulling off the layers like an onion to get at a center, but more the stuff of orienting oneself in that direction. And the determination to do that, to pay attention like that, is the stuff of the Buddha way. In the same kind of way that little acts of kindness or loyalty attempts at open-heartedness, however awkward and clumsy, is open-heartedness itself.

[37:50]

Well, and I think in a very large measure of the practice of Zazen is exactly what you're describing. We actually sit down and take the body and mind of the Realized Mind. That's what we're doing in this posture. But I also think that there, particularly with the encrustation part for me, where that image helps me, has to do with noticing the habits, what is habitual with respect to my mind, my mind stream, that is so much part of the scenery that I'm not particularly aware of the habits that dictate, if you will, much of my experience.

[38:57]

And that as I begin to develop some awareness of mental habits, and can begin to see which ones lead to suffering and which ones lead to some wholesomeness, that there is something like a kind of peeling away in the process of noticing habits. For example, one of the particularly tenacious and problematic habits being the one of habitual judging, criticizing. And that it takes a very, very long time for that habit to be transformed. Or more to the point, for my response to that habit of the mind to begin to be transformed. I would agree with what you're saying, but I also think there are certain areas in, if we want to talk about what we're doing as a kind of mind training, that also has to do with taking away, allowing to fall away certain habitual modes that no longer serve us, are not in the interest of the cultivation of kind-heartedness.

[40:20]

And sometimes we have to do an as-if practice. Practice as if we're kindhearted. That's, I think, a completely sound and valid and appropriate way to be with oneself. Yes. But I mean, part of what you're bringing up also has to do with a very old kind of discussion about, do we have Buddha nature complete right now, or do we have the potential for Buddha nature? So maybe that's also what's underneath the question. It's a very old conversation. I don't know about you, but I do know about me. I'm in the potential department.

[41:27]

This is something that confuses me. It's one thing to acknowledge the feelings that come up in myself in a situation. I can see anger, I can see resentment, I can see judgment. And when someone criticizes me, I can see that whole process. What confuses me is when something happens to my children, beings that I love very much, and when one of them comes to me and they've been misaccused of something, or they've been harmed in some way, or whether it's something, and I respond to that, I become angrier, I become more, I feel almost as if I have a special dispensation and I don't have to respond. It's the same way. How do I deal with that?

[42:27]

And I don't want to just... Yes, it is very complicated. Because whatever sense of boundaries and limits we have with other beings in the world, particularly for us mother types, we may not have with our children. And I think that very often We have such sympathy and resonance with our children that it's as if what happens to them happens to us. We long for what happens to them to happen instead to us. All those. But there's a great opportunity there, which is to be a kind of witness for my child. for a different way of being when he or she is criticized or treated in a way that seems unfair.

[43:28]

That either leads to their having the inheritance of our suffering patterns, or a different, you know, But, of course, I can't fake it. I mean, kids have a nose for when I'm telling them to put their sweater on because I'm cold. So, this kind of thing I don't think works unless I'm really doing that in my own life. And I think that's truly the one of children that are quite young. I'm right in the middle of reading a book that's actually been on my shelf for decades. I don't quite understand why I just picked it up now, but I'm finding it very timely. It's a book called Dibs in Search of Self. And the example, the woman who's writing the book, who was Little Boy's therapist,

[44:34]

The example she gives of a kind of radical being present in a respectful and understanding way, but not intruding in this child's space. So he has full room for the full range of his experience without being robbed out of her inclination to protect him. It's really quite inspiring for a way we can be with each other no matter what our relationship is. I think the situation you're bringing up is one of the most challenging. Because we get so caught. Even if we aren't caught by the same kind of thing in our own lives anymore. Right. It's much more intense. Good luck.

[45:39]

I was rather caught up by your expression to act as if. I've had some problem with that because in my mind acting as if is not being honest. How do you put those two things together? That's a good question. But who am I not being honest to? I mean, if my intention... I think I always have to come back to what is my motivation, what is my intention. If I, as I do, have a capacity for being quite fearsomely judgmental, I have this long pointy nose, And I can find what's wrong the minute I walk into the room. We have a rabbit that's living with us now.

[46:47]

His nose is going constantly, and I can't think of my long, pointy nose as going constantly. Then I really decided, what if there's something right? I'm going to focus on what is right that I can see in any given situation. I'm very interested in balancing the habits of my mind to something that's more wholesome and also more accurate. If I, in particular, want to have a fearsome critic and want to cultivate a capacity for kind speaking to myself and others, because my tendency is to speak sharply, I may feel like speaking sharply, but I'm really, my deepest intention is to cultivate a capacity to speak kindly.

[47:51]

And so I may feel like I'm going through the motions if I speak kindly, and inside I have this raging torrent. But I've spent so many years with that raging torrent and have seen what that leads me to. Who's to say that's any more accurate or truthful, actually, than speaking kindly. So I think it depends, you know. I always want to go back to what is my motivation. And if I'm hiding, if I want to trick you, and I'm going to speak kindly because I want to trick you, I think that's lying. That's a kind of as if that's lying. At least that's what comes up for me. Before I ask my question, I'd like to just say how much I appreciate Diane's question and your answer.

[48:54]

I often feel that traditional Zen texts were written by monastic types who never had children. It's really hard sometimes to know how to apply to that particular situation. Well, so we need to write some commentaries. We need to write... No, we have to... I'm serious. We have to write the texts that we need for our inspiration and how to practice in our lives as householders. That's our challenge. And if these teachings have some relevance for us... For me, reading this sutra is a real challenge to then say, how does this pertain to the life I actually lead now? So maybe you will write a commentary. Thank you. Well, my question is, you mentioned one of your practices at present is calling on the name of Avalokiteshvara.

[49:59]

Would you tell us a little bit about how you do that? Well, there's actually a practice which Thich Nhat Hanh has put forth called evoking the name, the Bodhisattva's name. Evoking the name of Avalokiteshvara in order to cultivate the capacity for listening without judgment or reaction. Evoking the name of Manjushri in order to cultivate the capacity for seeing or deep understanding without judgment or reaction. and evoking the name of Samantabhadra in order to cultivate the capacity for acting without judgment or reaction. Each of the verses is a little bit longer than that and I have to say I've edited the one with Avalokiteshvara because there's one line in Thich Nhat Hanh's version where he talks about

[51:04]

that deep listening, including hearing what isn't said. And for any of us who are mind readers, or think we ought to be, and make a lot of assumptions about what we think is going on with someone, but we don't check them out, we can get into a lot of trouble. I think the trouble potential for that particular phrase in that verse is worth considering. So a group of us who sit together once a week have actually taken these three segments of that practice, and we're taking it one verse at a time. And the first one, evoking the name of Avalokiteshvara, has been so yeasty that we've been hanging out with it for a few weeks. If you're interested, I'll send a copy of it down. I have it. Okay, well then you know the practice.

[52:07]

Yeah. Yeah, I find it very, very fruitful. A lot's coming up. But more than chanting, it's actually examining and pondering. Yes. Well, what I do when I take a verse like that or a list like the list of the Eight Worldly Concerns, is to use it almost like a kind of sieve that I just put everything I say, everything I think, everything I do, reflected against whatever the focus is. And do that sometimes for a very long time. Weeks, months. I've done that with the precepts. Sometimes stayed with one precept for a year and a half. And just about the time you think, oh, I can't, there's nothing more here, I've exhausted this, there's some amazing smelly piece of stuff to look at comes floating up to the surface.

[53:14]

It's called practicing more of less. Creeping towards 9 o'clock, so maybe we should stop. So perhaps this comes in the line of not being caught by what we concern, but it seems like this is the kind of thing that you're talking about, praise and criticism.

[54:20]

No, I don't think so. I think there's a real difference between praise and censure in description. I think there is a difference between praise and censure and description and analysis and considering what's so here. When we talk about habitual judgment and the kind of obstacle that is to being present, habitual judgment is not the judgment I'm aware of making, it's the judgment I'm not aware of making because I make it all the time. You know, people sometimes talk about having a committee, yapping in their minds about, you're such a crummy meditator, you never do it right, blah, blah, blah. So the kind of thing you're doing in your work, I mean, again, what's your motivation? Well, I think the problem would come if, I mean, there are times when the evaluations can be without any judgment involved, but there are other times when the result of some political

[55:32]

consideration involving group dynamics of the group that work to the detriment of one or the other member. Sure. So in that kind of situation I always have to come back to what's possible, what's my motivation, am I caught by the politics of this situation in such a way that my view is not as wide as it might be. And I think those are the real challenges in in taking our practice into our work lives. And I don't think we can generalize. I think we have to be in that situation in particular, sometimes make mistakes and think about it afterwards, and wonder about, now, how is that sitting for me? Did I conduct myself in that particular meeting? Did I speak in a certain way that I feel I can stand behind and live with? Do I have some feeling of dis-ease that maybe I want to look at this a little bit longer?

[56:36]

I think it's a real challenge. Thank you very much.

[56:48]

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